no one is against american ai labs. if anything, most ppl here want american companies to win, esp against our geopolitical adversaries. there is virtually zero doubt about that. what people are pushing back on is how they win. if american ai is going to lead, it should do so by building the best products & models, not through regulatory capture or other artificial advantages. if someone is distilling your models or otherwise exploiting them, securing your systems is your responsibility, esp if you claim to have built frontier ai. winning cuz you’re better is honorable & durable. winning cuz competition is constrained isn’t.
Signüll argues US AI must win on merit, not regulatory capture
Frontier labs must secure their models against external distillation.
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Positive users endorsed advocates urging American AI labs to win through merit rather than regulation because they believe free markets prevail, while negative users dismissed the view as naive or accused labs of cheating.
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@signulll if our labs become state backed and controlled, they'll no longer really be "american" in any meaningful sense (and neither will we)
@signulll Actually AI is inherently dual use military technology (the most dangerous ever) and the idea that we should allow our greatest geopolitical adversary to steal our AI capabilities for pennies on the dollar is insane. As is treating this like ordinary consumer tech.
@signulll I'm a huge capitalist pig. But winning the race to superintelligence is infinitely more important than ensuring we keep our 'capitalist street cred'. There is NOTHING more important than ensuring a democratic nation begins true RSI first.
@signulll I suppose a compromise might be direct government support to building out better technology to prevent distillation, but otherwise letting the free market operate.
@signulll I don’t want anyone to “win” I want them to be in a permanent arms race regardless of who they are, which country they are from and what their goals are. That is the only thing that will lead to best case scenario for humanity.
@signulll Another "China stole the tech we havn't invented yet"
@signulll Yes but if you win because competition is restrained - you lose in the long run because China will get stronger. The narrative that it is just “copying” and there is no innovation in China is absurd
@woke8yearold @signulll Deleting bank records or destroying digital control systems of critical infrastructure does not really rise to level of instant atomic holocaust and centuries of nuclear winter.
@signulll @yrechtman Are we competitive or are we competitive. Companies better figure out how to beat China on price or get eaten
@signulll socialism for the rich backed by regulatory capture and, if needed, a war machine
@signulll I'm pro America but I'm rooting against centralization of this tech among a small group of people wether they be American or not. With that being said if that's the way it goes, I hope they are American.
@signulll a few years ago i would have agreed. however, after all the stunts the us has been pulling lately and the way it keeps favoring its huge corporations over the masses, i'm not so sure anymore. it's more like pick your poison, at least as a non-us.
@signulll I’m fine with American labs winning via open weights, but not with Chinese labs distilling frontier labs and then dumping to destroy the economic ability for American labs to stay on the frontier
@signulll the best version of american AI dominance is one where the models are so good and so far ahead that nobody can catch up by copying. if distillation closes the gap that easily then the gap wasn't as wide as the fundraising deck claimed. real moats don't need government protection
@signulll You clearly have not been following the free market vs subsidised-at-scale debate. You can not expect American companies to win that battle. That is why the geopolitical fight is where it is.
@signulll US became the hegemonic power partly because they embraced openness and competition. Now it’s running away from competition by making up all excuses and it’s kinda funny (and sad) too see 🫠
unfortunately the main way to stop distillation is by gating access to verified groups distillation is simply asking the models questions and recording their results. to catch distillation, you have to analyze some much data that it takes a long time to uncover it, usually well after the distillation is complete
@signulll I'm against these labs. With these leaders and these tactics. Unamerican
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@yrechtman yeah absolutely, & if they are state backed, innovation pretty much is guaranteed to stop too. there is no point.