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Why Xbox Live Isn't Free

gamesradar.com — Until recently, Microsoft could brag about how Live was by far the most feature-complete online service on any platform, with a unified Friends list, the best online shop, voice and video chat as standard and a consistent and stable online experience. But in recent months there ’s been a shift in the market, and even bigger changes are coming. . .

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  • Endneesia, on 06/18/2008, -210/+26Because America's all about the money? And *****, we're talking about Micro$oft here.
    • LookAnOwl, on 06/18/2008, -34/+15Ignore those negative digs... well-placed dollar signs are the only way we'll ever be $et free.
    • Seafea, on 06/18/2008, -9/+77oh ho ho. I see you've replaced the S with a dollar sign! I get it! It is because they like making money. Good show!
    • Tebixan, on 06/18/2008, -6/+65Hmm, I missed the part where Sony & Nintendo started giving away their products for free, since only MS is interested in profit. The Wii's "free" web service is worse than the free Silver edition of x-box live, and maybe the lack of a fee is why PS3 games get a fraction of the downloadable content that 360 owners get.

      And what's with the America bashing? I understand that it's the cool thing to do right now, but at least focus on our foreign policy, or something specific to America. Every nation is ruled by the dollar, or the euro, or the yen, or....
      • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -16/+4Ever heard of Steam?
        • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+24You mean $team? Ho Ho!
        • sarixe, on 06/18/2008, -0/+10Yes, yes I have.
        • cornelje, on 06/19/2008, -2/+5Yeah, ya know, cuz steams friend list works so perfectly right?
        • Bootes, on 06/19/2008, -1/+2It does and has for awhile. Xfire for even longer.
        • reekon, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1Yeah and the games Steam sell, they take no cut whatsoever, right? Registered Charity I bet.
      • MWeather, on 06/18/2008, -11/+4"Hmm, I missed the part where Sony & Nintendo started giving away their products for free, since only MS is interested in profit."

        Sony and Nintendo do give away online play for free.
        • mrstoneok, on 06/19/2008, -1/+4HAH.... way to read the whole thing

          I approve of you reading half the comment and then jumping to comment down the thread (does that make sense?)
    • zingyGecko, on 06/18/2008, -2/+50$hut the ***** up
    • YancyFryJr, on 07/13/2008, -0/+7Oh noes, a corporation that tries to make money!

      Oh, and just as a general heads-up, if a for-profit corporation isn't good at bringing in the dollars, it's not a very good corporation.
  • scarecrow2k6, on 06/18/2008, -127/+12By now I really don't think why Xbox live shouldn't be free. After all this is the age of opensource...
    • RetepNamenots, on 06/18/2008, -2/+72What's Xbox Live got to do with open source?
    • reddevild, on 06/19/2008, -13/+2we are talking about the same M$ right??
    • doctorfungi, on 06/19/2008, -0/+10"By now I really don't think..."

      Enough said...
    • mathcreative, on 06/19/2008, -3/+2We all know M-Soft's got some Linux servers running the back end of stuff. Plus Microsoft doesn't pay for installing windows on their machine's. Or do they....
    • notwizt, on 06/19/2008, -0/+3Open source has nothing to do with being free you dumbass. Open source means "free as in freedom" not "free as in beer". Copyright is still respected and there are open source applications that costs money.
  • xpose, on 06/18/2008, -94/+326I don't think anyone minds paying for it. It completely revolutionized online gaming. Surely that is worth something?
    • Drekken79, on 06/18/2008, -10/+120It did. But when the free service it competes with catches up with a new FW, what exactly is it worth?
      • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -10/+109It revolutionized online CONSOLE gaming. but Xfire has been doing what Xbox live does for free for a long time on the PC.
        • soot, on 06/18/2008, -6/+85Steam too.
        • dOOBiEx213, on 06/18/2008, -41/+13"It revolutionized online CONSOLE gaming."
          In other words, it revolutionized gaming for nubs.
        • Anpheus, on 06/18/2008, -21/+5Not really, XFire is a bit of a hack and I'll be honest, a pain to use. That, and it doesn't offer the sort of distribution and management that Steam does, where I can have all my games on any of my computers, etc. On the other hand, Steam lacks a decent inter-client messaging or voice system that XFire or Vent/TeamSpeak can provide.

          Xbox Live does both fairly well.
        • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -14/+21Xfire is not a pain to use, I picked it up immediately.

          And the great thing about a PC is that you can (and in fact I do) have Xfire, steam, and ventrillo all at once! Imagine that. The best of all worlds, only on PC.
        • xino, on 06/18/2008, -2/+12@dOOBiEx213

          "In other words, it revolutionized gaming for nubs."
          Does that mean that the definition of a nub is a console gamer?
        • pHreaksYcle, on 06/19/2008, -2/+3WHY ARE PEOPLE BURYING THIS?! TOTALLY CORRECT!

          ]Xfire is not a pain to use, I picked it up immediately.

          And the great thing about a PC is that you can (and in fact I do) have Xfire, steam, and ventrillo all at once! Imagine that. The best of all worlds, only on PC.
        • DSizzle, on 06/19/2008, -1/+6What the ***** is a nub? SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!
        • 1timeuser, on 06/19/2008, -0/+9I believe a nub is what remains of your arm after it gets amputated.
        • Myonosken, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1cliterus
        • Valyn, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2The difference though is that with 360 (as opposed to anything on the PC), this functionality is mandatory. Its always there, and always will be. When you play on xbox live, EVERY SINGLE PERSON has VOIP. Some may choose not to use it (to not hear the idiots), but they all have it. Anything on the PC, your lucky to get 25% of people that have VOIP, and even then, they are using different systems, from Teamspeak or Ventrillo to Xfire. Even playing an MMO, each guild, uses a different system, and on a different server. TS and Vent do need a server, so if you cant do that yourself (and most can't), your paying out of pocket for it.

          You can gush about how great xfire, is, but until *everybody* uses it, the point is moot. Ive been gaming since i could reach the keyboard on an Apple ][e, playing the first MMO's, bought my own copy of Wolf 3d and the old Apogee games. Ive never used Xfire though. Nor will I, until I have a good reason. Nobody I know uses it, and i've never joined a game, server or guild that used it.

          I HAVE on the other hand, used the 360's voice chat while playing on MarioKart, or even back when WoW first came out and i tried that. Right now i use it to chat with friends in Mythos (and it has xfire support!) Hell, even now, i use Microsoft's wireless earpiece (connected to the PC) for Vent/TS.
        • supermanred, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2Uh, nope.

          Sorry, Xfire may be similar to Xbox Live, but it's quite a stretch to call it the same.
      • username9000, on 06/18/2008, -17/+14There is no way that in game XMB means that Sony has caught up. There are still way more features and content on Live than there will be even after the in game XMB happens....which is when again?
        Yeah, no release date. Next firmware update, yes. When is that gonna happen? Who the ***** knows.
        • Drekken79, on 06/18/2008, -9/+7It is coming soon. They are still testing it.

          With its release, it doesnt mean they have fully caught up... but it will be enough for people to question why they are paying for one and not the other.
        • WhereAmI, on 06/19/2008, -6/+1They confirmed that 2.4 Firmware will do in-game XMB and trophies:
          http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/06/17/firmware ...

          So that covers in-game messaging and gamer achievements. What other things does Live do? I guess there's that video market place for people that still buy a limited selection of TV shows.
        • username9000, on 06/19/2008, -2/+7@whereAmI. What perfect screenname by the way. You have no idea where you are, you just get sucked into the ***** and stop thinking.

          First off, this is not some high school pussy ass 1000 words a second debate. Your little fanboy rebuttals you have tucked away for every occasion don't hold water here (or usually anywhere else).

          Here is the inherent difference, which as it happens it the most important one.

          Live is established. Achievements are integrated. In game messaging, well you can have video conferences for over the past year with anyone on the 360. I'd say that is established.

          So your argument is that now Sony has everything live has!

          Laughable.

          Trophies.....do you know what trophies means? Even if it is cool (which i hope it is) you simply don't know.
          Messaging....lol. If you have a 360 you know how messaging is amazingly integrated into everything. you can message people on pc messenger while on the 360 for chrissakes.

          there are other aspects like custom soundtracks, where if i have a 360 I can stream my whole mp3 collection over my network to the 360 during ANY game on the 360.

          Respond to that and make a good argument for ONCE.
        • Myonosken, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1@whereami: So you think every developer will have got ready a set of acheivments and ingame compatibility for invites etc as soon as this is released?

          Only the big games from the past two years will work with everything. Most games will be rushed through with a few achievements added so companies can get on with their new games.
      • Spankov, on 06/18/2008, -1/+2I know. July the 3rd....or thereabouts
      • BearinG, on 06/20/2008, -1/+1Microsoft can update too.. not as often as Sony for sure but it doesn't mean they're stranded
    • briansearles, on 06/18/2008, -16/+49Was worth something. Past tense.
      • ErikHarrison, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1The only thing it's worth now is letting some newbs on your own team own you up with the rocket launcher. (see pic from article)
    • f4nt0m4s, on 06/18/2008, -21/+101I don't know if Xbox Live really revolutionized anything. When I think of online gaming revolutions I think of the original Doom and Quake, and their extensive mod community. I think of Starsiege Tribes and Tribes 2 with their expansive mutliplayer image. I think of STEAM and it's simple unification of online gaming - and all above things didn't cost a dime.
      Xbox Live was marketed well, and because online gaming was not seen in the console world people paid for it. Paying for Xbox Live is like paying for AOL Broadband. You still need to pay for an internet connection to use AOL Broadband, they just offer you "exclusive high quality content." You can get the stuff for free. Xbox Live will go the way of AOL Broadband, people will realize that paying for it is ironic and without a point.
      • soot, on 06/18/2008, -6/+25Tribes 2, good times...

        The only reason Microsoft can charge for these services is because Xbox is proprietary hardware. Everything that you pay for with Xbox Live and more can be found for free on the PC. Steam is even rolling out an online matchmaking service soon.
      • mlrigsby, on 06/18/2008, -2/+12Everything you describe is for the PC market. Whether Xbox Live is worth it today compared to the PSN is debatable, but there's not denying that Live revolutionized console online gaming.
      • bullhead2007, on 06/18/2008, -2/+12Xbox was doing this before Steam and Xfire. Xbox had VoIP in every game. Live did start a few trends that are now expected in most online games.
      • Katana314, on 06/18/2008, -3/+10Sorry, no. Xbox was NOT doing this before Quake and Doom and 1,000 other PC games. Steam and Xfire were just a little more organized.
        I will admit some of its ideas were the cream of the crop, like voice. But now, that's something that's available everywhere you look on the PC and PS3. The fact that it's a console doesn't miraculously make voice some huge redeeming feature.

        I just don't think Microsoft has much reason to make XBL Gold free by now.
        • fokov, on 06/18/2008, -1/+2"I just don't think Microsoft has much reason to make XBL Gold free by now." I would also add that people are willing to pay for it, so they will keep charging them for it. Even though all the main features love (voice, find friends) already exists in the pc world. However, maybe I'm different, but my xbox and pc are not more then 4 feet apart and the monitors/tv are within one foot.

          I used my free XBL stuff, now I just don't care. Most of the games are not MP worth enough for me to like (well the ones that I own). Than again, I still play Quake 3.
    • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -30/+21you know why i mind
      1) games that drop out mid game
      2) lag that happens around Christmas time
      3) cant pick your server
      These are completely unacceptable when you pay 10 dollars a month for something thats free on other systems.
      • namelessXsilent, on 06/18/2008, -3/+2710 a month? you pay $120 for live?? i dont
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -12/+2its 8 dollars at walmart for a month card.
        • HillerMylife, on 07/24/2008, -0/+13or $3 per month if you buy it yearly.
      • domokunt, on 06/18/2008, -7/+18"$10pm" Which proves you don't even have it
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -23/+18 dollars at walmart for a month card. which proves your a dumbass
        • strictnein, on 06/18/2008, -4/+22No, you're the dumb ass for shopping at ***** walmart and buying a monthly subscription card.
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -18/+2No you're the dumb ass becuase you didnt dig me down lol
      • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -10/+1I think may of the points still stand at 8 dollars per month, or even the 50 dollars per month that most people probably pay.
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -8/+1its called rounding. but yes your right its 8 dollars a month
      • Tebixan, on 06/18/2008, -2/+10Which games drop out mid game? I've never had that happen to me. Plus, I own a Wii & a 360, and if the Wii offered the same kind of multiplayer experience as the 360, with a monthly charge, I would pay for it in a heartbeat over the crap we've got now.
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -11/+2halo
          since ive had that its dropped out around ten times since ive owned it. and yes i have broadband
        • wrxpert, on 06/18/2008, -0/+5Call of Duty 4 drops you all the time because because of connection problems and because of host quiting.
        • DMDekoth, on 06/18/2008, -0/+3Games always drop out when the host leaves because it's hosting off the player's system. For the PS3, the developers only need to host an authentication/server list server. It would be great if Xbox Live supported dedicated servers.

          Halo would be a lot more fun for me if I could have a nice dedicated server, run by the players, that had a nice map rotation that I like. CTF only, or something. Something I hate about matchmaking is that it's forcing me to play dreadful game modes and maps..
        • xino, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1I know what you mean about the matchmaking. I don't know how I ever began to accept matchmaking, but I did. Another problem with matchmaking is that once the population in matchmaking drops a lot such as Halo 2, playlist changes are still very important, but they are no longer maintained. Halo 2 matchmaking is often times painfully slow now days because of that. There hasn't been a playlist change or talks about it for Halo 2 since like June of last year.
      • tidu, on 06/18/2008, -0/+9I've never had problems with xbox live, save for that christmas time outage. It's always fast and right there when I want it. And at $5 a month it's not that bad.
        • sostoudt, on 06/18/2008, -8/+1i buy mine on a monthly basis only when games i want to play come out. so its 8 per month for me when i get it. christmas time is when i had alot of problems too. arent you mad when the service you pay for isnt working
        • xino, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1I agree that Xbox Live was terrible during Christmas season of 2007, but I didn't have problems with it since I got it in November 2003 until Christmas 2007.
      • Sakumi, on 06/18/2008, -5/+5The lack of a server browser was a HUGE negative for me. Some/Most PS3 games seem to have a server browser, instead of just throw you in the game.. except.. gta4 which pissed me off.
        • Jaymoon, on 06/18/2008, -0/+6So it's Microsoft's fault a developer doesn't let you pick what server to connect to.

          o..k...
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0It is when the system is designed to preempt that choice.
    • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -12/+14...not when other people do it better, for free, while still monetizing it appropriately for themselves. Not while no one else charges for the core service, which is simply the ability to play online AT ALL. You're already paying for the bandwidth, you've already paid for the console, you've already paid for the games...

      Why do so many people excuse outright coercion about what should OBVIOUSLY be free? If you want to pay for premium service, you they should make premium services available and charge for ONLY that. They leverage the absolute basics.
    • minorthreat, on 06/18/2008, -27/+26"It completely revolutionized online gaming"

      negative... with XBL your essentially paying for the internet twice.
      • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -4/+15"with XBL your essentially paying for the internet twice."

        WTF? That argument is like saying because you pay for your gas to drive to the store everything should be free once you get there. You can make an argument that Xbox Live should be free, but your reasoning is ridiculous.
        • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -1/+6Actually, it's like saying that since you pay for your gas to drive to the mall, you should be able to meet your friends there and hang out. Sure, you'll have to buy stuff in the stores, but you're not going to have to pay to get into the mall, meet up with anyone, chat with them, enter individual stores...

          That's the difference between "basic, expected amenities" and "stuff actually worth paying for." Gold has some premium services on it, but it's supported primarily from services that should NOT be charged for. (Especially since they're monetizing it in other fashions already.)
        • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2"Stuff worth paying for" is a nebulous concept. The point I was making has nothing to do with whether Xbox live should be free or not. The point is that paying for an Internet connection is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Minorthreat seems to think that just because he pays for his Internet connection everything online should be free, which is a stupid argument.

          I've made the argument on Digg several times that Xbox Live services should be expanded to include basic matchmaking, but I don't agree with the parent's logic at all.
        • cthellis, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2His comment was short and completely undetailed. He was implying "everything online should be free" precisely as much as "since you're already paying for your bandwidth, and Xbox Live effectively acts as a connectivity gateway only using your bandwidth, in much the same manner as any instant messaging client you use for free does, you are--in effect--paying again for the bandwidth you use to chat with people, play games online, etc."

          While you can chide him for over-simplification and incompleteness, you really don't get to stuff words in his mouth. I'm pretty sure the furthest thing from what he was implying was "everything online should be free" to power your ridiculous strawman, just as I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying MY precise argument either.

          Knowing Digg, he won't be back anyway, so... ;-) We're left to our own devices.

          Which, in this case, sticks the basic draw-slash-coercion of Live right in an area that no one charges you for (without MMO-style dedicated server running, which is something Live games don't do [excluding the games that ARE MMO's, which still DO have their own separate charges, so it's not like your Gold membership affects that] ), and a lot of the rest of the appeal is--again--something that many other services do as well and better sans subscription, because the bulk of what you're doing is just using your pre-paid resources. Just though their client.
        • minorthreat, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1MMO's have dedicated servers paid for by the company. The company also pays for all the bandwidth. Counter-strike and games alike, the customer sets up their own server and everyone plays.

          XBL operates no different than steam. Steam is basically an interface with built in friends lists that allows you to see what games your friends are playing. They provide nothing but the chat server, which is relatively low bandwidth compared to actually hosting a game.

          XBL's overhead is non-existant. They provide no game servers and XBL users do not hog any of their bandwidth. Since the XBL software is shipped with every xbox, you are paying for that when you purchase your xbox. Your paying to have your user name and password in a database that will allow you to connect to a server. Nothing more than that.
      • xino, on 06/18/2008, -0/+10I had no idea that $50/year was twice as much as what most people payed for Internet access. I wonder where I can get some of this $50/year Internet access.

        /sarcasm
        • munkyxtc, on 06/19/2008, -0/+3If you are paying $50 for XBL a year you are paying way too much. I wait until the cards go on sale. I end up with 13 month cards for approximately $37, or $2.84/mo -- it really isn't that big of an expenditure like some people make it out to be. Sure, I'd love it to be free, but I really don't think it's overpriced.
        • mugicha, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2I'm glad you added the /sarcasm because I wouldn't have figured it out from just reading your comment. Thanks!

          /p.s. i love you
        • minorthreat, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1if you are paying for something twice, that doesn't mean that you paid equal amounts both times.
      • ferrariman60, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1Wait, wait, wait..... you're telling me that my xbox live is also my ISP? Damn it all! God damn Comcast pulling the wool over my eyes AGAIN!!!!!!!!
      • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Not to mention you have to pay $50/yr for EACH GAMERTAG that wants to be online. My wife is a gamer and would not settle for using my Online ID for play. If we had kids who played, I am sure they would want an ID as well (and I sure wouldn't want to share mine, nor would my wife want to share hers). That $50/yr/person can add up!
    • OhFrak, on 06/18/2008, -26/+5"It completely revolutionized online gaming"

      LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!

      Paying for lag! High five Microsoft!

      50 bucks a year for low player count last gen P2P networking games and massive outages. Way to go Microsoft!

      LOL, and even after all that ***** you still get adds!

      Dreamcast 360 == FAIL.

      • logicalnoise, on 06/18/2008, -2/+8obvious troll is obvious
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -1/+10You can badmouth the 360 all you want, but I won't hear a bad word said against the Dreamcast!
    • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -16/+6Exactly. I will grant that XBL has done a good job of aggregating many of the features that were previously available into a single place, and they WERE slightly ahead of the curve for that, but they are now lagging behind and cost more.

      1 word: STEAM.
      Achievements, online game purchasing, match making, anti cheat, unified friends list/chat, Hosted save game service, matchmaking, open to developers, allows indie/small developers a platform, auto updating, etc...
      AND FREE, without oppresive ads or annoying content. (in fact, unless you are in the Steam STORE or first logging in, you do not see ANY ads)

      I pay for XBL, but it annoys me. The service is crappy, I am often dropped from games, I often have to wait forever, you are sporadically not able to sign on for days at a time, switching between different games is annoying, and I do not actually see any service WORTH paying for. If you have not used Steam recently (or at all) I urge you to check it out - you can get it for free. (you can buy several decent games for as low as 10 dollars if you want to check out all the options)
      • katanaswordfish, on 06/18/2008, -0/+3you said matchmaking twice.
      • anothrnbdy, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0If you deem the service sub par, then why pay for it? If it is to play Halo, then play a real FPS on the PC.
      • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0@anothrnbdy If the PC had any, someone would play them. In the meantime, show me a FPS on pc that actually has something like a story, tard. Reflex Gaming FPS's are just a way to get all the noobs in one location.
    • revenz, on 06/18/2008, -14/+14i certainly minded, i only subscribed to xbox live for a year when it first came out (on the xbox), and had a 3 month trail on my 360. but have now switched to PS3, i dont want to pay about 15-20% the price of the console every year to play online. if you got some perks with it then maybe, like a few free games (not 200 points or whatever, that buys you ***** all).
      PSN FTW
    • Gamoc, on 06/18/2008, -12/+19No it didn't, PCs did everything that Xbox Live does better and quicker first. Socom (and Socom 2) on the PS2 played online (Very, very well, I might add) so it didn't bring online gaming to consoles. The 360 essentially took the online console gaming from the PS2 and shoved it with a PC's online section, after it had been announced that the PS3 would be online.
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -3/+11The PS2 online was a joke. Live has been around since 2002 for the original Xbox and it took what was a pain in the arse and made it one-button easy. You choose multiplayer and it finds you a game. Online gaming on PC still requires you to ***** about picking servers with low latency and all that jazz, whereas Xbox Live does that all for you with it's matchmaking.
        That said, a game browser couldn't hurt on most games, rather than relying on pure chance.
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0It takes me less than 5 seconds to find a server with an agreeable ping, enough players, and the map I want to play on every PC game I own. I cannot say the same about XBL. When I play at friends' places, we generally have to wait at least a minute and a half. Usually more like 3-5.

          There is no excuse for XBL not having dedicated servers.
      • supermanred, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Yeah right.

        "Can you hear me now? ***** dude, what Roger Wilco server did you join??? ***** I still cant hear you...and ***** I cant find that ***** game your in. What's the IP address again?"

        Xbox Live is currently unmatched in PC gaming. Give me a break....
    • mnemy, on 06/18/2008, -9/+4It is worth something. People buying their machine and buying the games to play online. And the headset/controllers/whatever. I don't own an XBOX/XBOX360 because the only reason I'd grab one is to play online. On principle, I won't pay for a service that should be free since online play is the entire draw to the system. Well, principles and because their hardware is crap.
      • supermanred, on 06/21/2008, -0/+1Anyone who says the following:

        I dont own X ITEM and have no idea what X ITEM is really like, but It's crap....

        is an idiot.
    • Amiga500, on 06/18/2008, -9/+4You wouldn't know a revolution if it snuck up behind you and kicked you in the ass.
    • neFariou5, on 06/18/2008, -11/+2I have a ps3 and one of my housemate's has an xbox 360 and i have equal access to both, and I can honestly say I feel sorry for him having to pay every year for something I get for free. Plus on ps3 you get such a better experience, I wouldn't pay for xbox live if i got the console free to be honest.
      • razor150, on 06/18/2008, -2/+8What? I own a PS3 and a 360 and Xbox live kicks the ***** out of PSN. I agree the Live should be free, but to sit there and say PSN gives a much better experience is a joke.
      • Danoz, on 06/18/2008, -1/+5"I feel sorry for him having to pay every year for something I get for free"

        hahahahaha... i feel sorry for you. You paid $950 for your console, 360 was worth $550. Xbox live is $9 a month. I can afford 3 years and 7 months of xbox live before it amounts to what you paid. These are release prices and AUD.
      • neFariou5, on 07/26/2008, -0/+1"You paid $950 for your console"
        I did? Interesting assumption. Actually, I paid just over 500 dollars for it.
    • spidoman, on 06/18/2008, -4/+8I've had both Xbove Live and PSN, and guess what it all comes down to, if i'm going to spend 10+ hours playing a game online, I don't care if sign up takes fifteen minutes like it does on MGO.

      I haven't had lag on MGO yet. I never used friends that much on my 360. I prefer actually doing real life things with my friends. Online I'm not a fan of voice chat, or specific friends (wasn't on PC from the original counterstrike, to CS:S, to Halo 2, to GoW, to Halo 3, to Warhawk, to MGO, I like to play my games in peace)

      For some Xbox live may be worth it, for others it's not, it all depends what you like in online gaming.
    • latova, on 06/18/2008, -4/+8It's revolutionary only if you play on consoles. PC has had this and more for many years.
    • theandy1, on 06/19/2008, -3/+2I have no idea how you're saying it completely revolutionized gaming. That's like saying the MSN Gaming Zone completely revolutionized PC gaming. Live doesn't have dedicated servers, it uses the user's connections which makes me feel ripped off. Imagine how much more fun Gears of War would have been without a complete host advantage. I know dedicated servers cost a lot of money, but I'd gladly pay a little more for my multiplayer experience to be better. Why do you think the games don't show your actual ping and only green bars like the msn gaming zone? It's because your ping isn't that great at all! Oh yeah and it also sucks ass how the game stops for everyone when ONE player lags out... I don't really care about the $50 a year cost I see it like a certain ethnicity that I will not mention's tax. Oh yeah and the article was completely wrong about exclusive content for gold members being available to silver members. From what I've seen there have been free add-on packs to gold members that weren't available to silver although not many. A lot of content isn't available to silver members until later on as well.
    • Sogui, on 06/19/2008, -2/+3I don't think they mind paying for Live that much.

      However, getting free additional maps, weapons, and gametypes for Team Fortress 2... free map pack for CoD4... and free content pack for Mass Effect as a PC gamer must be quite the slap in the face for you 360 kids.
      • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0Yes, knowing I can put my 360 game in any working 360 and play is a horrible experience for me. I would love to go back to buying a PC game that advertises inaccurate system specs, spotty features, last gen graphics, AND came out six months later on PC than it did on my console. Then I could have the joy of taking it home, putting the disk in my PC, and being told my sound card needs a new driver. I get the new driver, oh look. My graphics card isn't supported. Ok, got a new graphics card, but look, it doesn't support my motherboard. Yeah, you aren't quite smart enough to realize that anything you get for PC for free is just to shut you up about the ACTUAL experience. Go troll somewhere else, loser.
    • BradleyNowell1, on 06/19/2008, -1/+0I don't mind not paying for PSN a little more than my brother doesn't mind paying for XBL.
    • Van3ck, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2Umm, Xfire? Ventrillo? These programs were out and being used by the PC gaming community (for free) long before XBL came out.
      • supermanred, on 06/21/2008, -1/+1Not the same. You obviously don't own an Xbox or Xbox 360.
  • j1ggy, on 06/18/2008, -57/+64This isn't new. This has always been Microsoft's practice. Take for example computer manufacturers who have had to pay licensing fees whether a Microsoft OS is on it or not. Microsoft has always been a leech.
    • fallenone05, on 06/18/2008, -7/+10Sony probably paid for this to happen..
    • tomato1324, on 06/19/2008, -1/+2so true. the simple fact that windows costs so damn much for no real reason has always pissed me off. makes me happy to own a mac. 129 for the OS.
      • BlueSkyfish, on 06/19/2008, -1/+3$1000 for the proprietary computer.

        Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris would have boon better examples. They're all free.
      • ferrariman60, on 06/19/2008, -1/+2You gonna pay $129 for "Snow Leopard"? That, more than anything else, sounds like an OS X service pack.
        • supermanred, on 06/21/2008, -1/+2Paying for updates for an OS that actually works makes a lot more sense to me than paying 399.99 for Windows Vista (which I did, too....what a mistake and waste of money)


        • tomato1324, on 06/27/2008, -0/+1where has anybody said that snow leopard is going to be 129? and if its a significant update, then yes, i will.
    • sdfguy, on 06/19/2008, -5/+1DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
  • dudefather, on 06/18/2008, -23/+280in before people start using dollar signs in the word 'Microsoft'

    edit: looks like I was 2 minutes late
    • mrelusive, on 06/18/2008, -20/+6$ony.
    • TheLastFreeMan, on 06/18/2008, -4/+56$ee comment #1.
      • elliott9, on 06/18/2008, -2/+17-19 diggs, I see nothing!
      • FoxOrian, on 06/18/2008, -2/+9I like how your comment maintains the positive sum of the comment above and below you. It's like you're sappin' their diggs.
    • Drekken79, on 06/18/2008, -18/+3You are late! First comment beat you to the punch!
  • liveify, on 06/18/2008, -35/+13I don't really care that I pay 50 bucks a month. Its a good and for the most part reliable service.
    • rryanhayes, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2650 bucks a year.
    • jbrown101st, on 06/18/2008, -1/+20You pay 50 bucks a month for live?
    • Carsonauto, on 06/18/2008, -1/+8a month?
      damn
    • finn, on 06/18/2008, -0/+25its not $50/month, its $50/year

      there's no way in hell i'ld be on Gold if it was $50/month
    • KillerSiafu, on 06/18/2008, -2/+1450 bucks a month?
      Damn! That must be the Double-Platinum package...

      Does it come with hookers and blow?
      • zzz@tkz, on 06/18/2008, -0/+8Cheap hookers :o.
      • thebaron2, on 06/18/2008, -0/+6And the blow gives you diarrhea.
      • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -1/+7The hookers are only available part of the time, and they occasionally just leave in the middle of sex.

        The blow is actually available to everyone, but they just call it something different.
      • cannonball, on 06/18/2008, -0/+5I'd pay $50/month for hookers and blow...
    • mike17032, on 06/18/2008, -0/+14For $50 a month I want to be able to press a button and have a bitch crawl out of my console and blow me.
      • ChoiceMad, on 06/18/2008, -0/+131. Cut a hole in the xbox.
        2. ...nevermind
        • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -0/+8♪♫ Wanna get you somethin' from the heart
          Somethin' special girl
          It's my dick in an Xbox, my dick in an Xbox babe
          It's my dick in an Xbox, my dick in an Xbox girl ♪♫
        • xino, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1@ethergnat Did you just make those lyrics up or is there really a song with those lyrics?
        • Shaflugi, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2xino, look up "Dick in a box" on Youtube. It's an SNL skit.
  • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -43/+21the gold subscription seems pretty useless to me.
    • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -1/+7i got it wrong, i thought silver allowed you to play the games online. bummer.
  • jebzaki, on 06/18/2008, -56/+8wow front page and no comments
  • BoonTobias, on 06/18/2008, -32/+9a fool and his cash are soon......
  • computerusr, on 06/18/2008, -51/+9micro$oft
  • Carsonauto, on 06/18/2008, -74/+460Q) Why Xbox Live Isnt Free
    A) Because it's good
    • WaxenPith, on 06/18/2008, -14/+4/comments
    • PleaseJustDie, on 06/18/2008, -26/+16If something free can't be good then what does that make Firefox? Thunderbird? Linux? GIMP? Blender?

      Guess they must all suck because they are free.

      /sarcasm
      • nephilimx, on 06/18/2008, -2/+17Donated money + skilled experts donating time != running a 100million dollar a year network service for free
        • PleaseJustDie, on 06/18/2008, -5/+3That's not the point, Carsonauto is saying that if something is good it can't be free.

          If you want to compare to giant network services then lets look at google. Google is free to use, and its a multi-billion dollar network service. So, does that make google bad?

          The point is, just because something is free doesn't make it bad and just because something costs money doesn't make it good.
        • mcottier, on 06/19/2008, -0/+3Google isn't free completely, advertiser's pay them.
      • Shaflugi, on 06/19/2008, -4/+2But, but... GIMP sucks :(
        • Renegade89, on 06/20/2008, -1/+0You suck GIMP is awesome if you learn to use it properly it's a good alternative to Adobe Photoshop.
    • shondell, on 06/18/2008, -21/+64A) Because it's Microsoft.*
    • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -17/+63Then why is Steam better, free, doesn't serve you ads, has more features, etc., etc., etc.?
      • Carsonauto, on 06/18/2008, -6/+52Steam is on a computer. If steam doesnt do it, 10,000 other programs do. Console online is proprietary. Also, on computer, PEOPLE pay for servers. Dedicated servers, with ventrilo. It's all paid for by the players (or clans).

        If nobody is paying for console online, then whats the quality going to be like?
        • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -10/+5It's not like consoles AREN'T computers. They're still routing them through the same Ted Stevens-approved tubes. We're talking business model, here. Consoles are already supported in ways few computer apps are, and Live has more ways than most--even Steam. (Though that may change in the future.)

          Players pay only for their own space that they can manipulate and moderate how they want. (Something you really can't do with Live.) Simple, no frills voice communication is done in plenty of modern games at this point. TF2? Free. CoD4? Free. Everything else? Free. Complex, MANY-frilled voice services on PC are also free. Skype? Google Talk?

          Not every program comes from a gaming standpoint and balances everything equally, but they're all free basic services with something "premium-ized" to entice people, or some other way of monetization attached. It's easy for any console to attach any service like that and run it core, underneath the game. Still free.

          There is no NEED for cost attached. There is no magical hardware difference between PC's and consoles that make a difference. It is simply the business model Microsoft is pushing, as they rather love subscriptions, and wish to change consumer expectations about the "new baseline" upon which they can build even more.
        • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -3/+16Actually, although Steam is a service that have player supported service (which after constantly being booted from games on XBL I prefer quite frankly) there are various other game/services that host for free.

          Blizzard, even before the days of WoW has had a free service where it hosted games for ALL of its players at NO cost.
      • estvir, on 06/19/2008, -4/+8Steam doesn't have match making, it has ads, etc.
      • battletrax, on 06/20/2008, -1/+1Theres an option in the settings to not display ads.
        Maybe you should get a 360 before you bash it.
    • dblespresso, on 06/18/2008, -6/+37No no no ... Digg users don't believe in this myth called capitalism
      • StandupShowcase, on 06/19/2008, -5/+2um what do you call all the right wing libertarian capitalists on here? you fail at recognizing *****.
    • domokunt, on 06/18/2008, -1/+7Actually their just subsidizing the hardware costs like they and sony do with games and peripherals.
    • tdogg241, on 06/18/2008, -3/+17Your Q isn't really a question.
    • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -14/+6Your logical assertion is as follows:
      XBL is Good (This point in and of itself is questionable)
      XBL costs money (This is pretty clearly true)
      THEREFORE
      Good things cost money

      Do you see the problem there? Lets go through a quick list of Free things that are awesome:
      Google
      Firefox
      Steam
      Wikipedia
      Battle.net (WoW costs money, but other BLizzard games access B.Net for free)
      YouTube
      ...I could go on...for a LONG time...
      • ByteGuerilla, on 06/18/2008, -0/+6Oh boy, a syllogism being treated as though it isn't an inherently flawed logical mechanic. You don't by any chance work on the doomed semantic web do you?
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+4Google: Ads
        Firefox: Countless hours donated by various coders.
        Steam: Money made selling games.
        Wikipedia: Countless hours donated by various geeks, not to mention the constant pleas for donations.
        Battle.net: subsidised by the cost of the games.
        Youtube: Well known for bleeding cash, before Google bought them. Not sure now.

        Point being that nothing is free. Could MS subsidise Live with the cost of games and microtransactions? Yes, but people are willing to pay, so why would they bother?
        • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -1/+1Live: Ads
          Live: Money made selling games.
          Live: Subsidized by the cost of the games.


          Why is Live charging, again...?
        • HolyChimp, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1@cthellis: "Could MS subsidise Live with the cost of games and microtransactions? Yes, but people are willing to pay, so why would they bother?"
        • cthellis, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1People are willing to pay because they're having the ability to play online AT ALL leveraged against that subscription fee.

          The bulk of the defensive arguments, however, say things like "You pay because it's worth it!" and "it makes it better!"

          The primary source of contention is that the online play they're leveraging is NOT "worth it" in and of itself, because it is not something that could or should be otherwise done--especially on a service already subsidizing itself in many other ways. And it's most certainly objectionable to point out that accepting a new subscription "baseline" will only snowball into more cost on OTHER platforms in the future, so... why, precisely, are people so encouraged about defending it?
        • anothrnbdy, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Yes, all of these things cost money to make available to their end users. Nobody is arguing that point. We end users are not footing the bill directly, so that makes it free from our point of view.

          The point is that there are other services on other platforms that offer the same experience for free (to the end user) and do a better job.
      • Cockslap, on 06/23/2008, -0/+0Buried for calling b-net awesome. Battlenet: Babysitting for parents who don't give a *****.
    • ChinezePanda, on 06/18/2008, -10/+4when it works.
    • HaMMeReD, on 06/18/2008, -4/+14PSN might be free but it is really hurting.

      1.5 gigs comes down on live in 10 minutes for me, on PSN that same 1.5 gigs would take well over 3 hours.

      I would pay sony $5 a month for a better network.
      • Daniel591992, on 06/19/2008, -7/+2Three hours? You must be doing something wrong...
      • thecheatah, on 06/19/2008, -3/+1Last I checked (my computer runs as a router), my ps3 downloads at full speed of my cable connection. Downloads 1MB every 2-3 seconds.
      • shekki, on 06/19/2008, -5/+1my ps3 runs wirelessly and itll download a gig in no time. frequent discconnects on xbl make me question why i pay for it in the first place
        • ferrariman60, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2I would, uh, stop unplugging your cord, because the only time I disconnect is when my college's ***** network goes down. Or if I unplug the thing.
        • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Run my PS3 wireless-ly as well, and I have full speed every time. YMMV
        • shekki, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Why would, I, uh, unplug my ethernet cord... thats the most retarded assumption I've ever heard. And yes all my ports NAT etc are open, It's not as bad as it use to be, but it really pisses me off when it does happen especially during halo
      • cthellis, on 06/19/2008, -1/+2That, unfortunately, seems to entirely depend on your region and ISP. Live is slower than PSN up by me, but down south 30 miles or so, BOTH services are slower--on the same ISP. (Cablevision.) I, however, have occasional random disconnects when the connection is idle, but he never does. At my brother's, PSN is even more crap than his already-shoddy connection, but his ISP is also pretty small-scale. (Haven't tested Live down there.) By another friend's out west, Live connects faster than PSN, but both are pretty blazing regardless.

        Sometimes there's an issue or two that can get resolved, but a lot of the time it just seems to be a crap shoot.
    • carleethian, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2Q) is not a question.
    • digitallysick, on 06/19/2008, -4/+2I would rather not pay and have it free on the PSN network
    • SolidSnak, on 06/19/2008, -6/+1Q) Why Xbox Live Isnt Free
      A) Because it's good

      Everyone wants to validate their purchases
  • greaseddeafguy, on 06/18/2008, -36/+171but the quality of service isn't similar. Online for CoD4360 >>>>>> CoD4PS3 so the article really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
    • blackhole82, on 06/18/2008, -18/+36I've played online with both versions and the PS3 works just fine. Always plenty of games to join and quick too.
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -9/+14If you think the PS3 version is fine you haven't played both versions. The PS3 version does find you games, eventually, but the 360 version is pretty much instant.
        • birdman98, on 06/19/2008, -3/+1I blame the fact that not as many people play the PS3 version compared to it's 360 counterpart.
        • TheBlackLotus, on 06/20/2008, -0/+1Ya, because almsot no one plays the PS3 Version

          (FANBOY FTW)
      • BugMeNot2, on 06/18/2008, -5/+15I've played the PS3 version and finding games is pretty much instant.

        Barely anybody plays the hardcore modes, though.
        • breezytrees, on 06/19/2008, -5/+2Hardcore is the bread and butter of cod4. Without it, it's just another halo 3.
    • shondell, on 06/18/2008, -20/+12Just wait till Sony releases firmware 2.40. Both will have identical features, yet only one of the will be free.
      • Thorpe, on 06/18/2008, -12/+11Most people play Call of Duty 4 on PC and Xbox 360 anyway.
      • ferrariman60, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1PC? I don't pay for that, aside from my ISP.
    • Bloodburn, on 06/18/2008, -13/+6The ps3 online works perfect, I havnt seen any lag in gta 4, or the BF:bc demo. NONE at all.

      However I HAVE seen lots of lag in both games on the 360. Everything from players warping around, to disconnecting.

      I have cod4 for the pc so I cant comment on that though.
      • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -2/+6Or you could play on the PC, and have it be better AND free...
        • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+5Yeah, he can just fire up GTA4 on his PC and... oh, wait, he can't!
          ***** elitist PC bastards.
        • Zyphron, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1Give it a couple months. I am currently playing GTAIV on my 360, but I will most likely buy it again for decent multiplayer options and mods once the PC version comes out.
          As for CoD4, I bought it for the PC, not the 360. The only time I side with the 360 over PC is when the PC port takes too long. Even then, I WILL buy GTA4 again, and I am thinking about buying Mass Effect. It is just better.
    • nikorf11, on 06/18/2008, -3/+4just saying that one is ">>>..." than the other one without giving a reason is not really a point. so i guess your comment doesn't have a leg to stand on.
    • BlueSkyfish, on 06/19/2008, -0/+5And online for CoD PC?
      • ferrariman60, on 06/19/2008, -0/+3Better than both consoles. But don't tell the fanboys that.
        • Bologner, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1Because I love nothing more than joining ANY server, and immediately bing pummeled by the 4 level 55's on the other team.

          Seriously, people need lives.
      • jermm, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1Wish it had the Source server browser/friend list though...
        The "History" tab was the best server browser invention ever.
  • rryanhayes, on 06/18/2008, -28/+235I wish it was free, that 7 dollars a month really breaks me.
    • psylemon, on 06/18/2008, -8/+31way to have people miss your sarc..
    • reaper527, on 06/18/2008, -1/+46i know that was a sarcastic comment, but thats actually almost double the price. its much closer to $4 a month, and if you go online, you can get 12 month subscription cards for $30-35, bringing the price even lower.
      • drexl, on 06/18/2008, -5/+5It is $7.99 if you pay by the month as opposed to paying for a year in full. I some how changed my plan to auto renew monthly for $7.99. Not a big deal and I play on Live a few days a week...so it's worth it to me.
      • stoobywon, on 06/18/2008, -2/+9Well I have a system where every Christmas, I get 1 year of it. And I keep on getting a year of Live every Christmas at no expense for me.
        • emaredubyou, on 06/18/2008, -1/+4some people give their friends Christmas presents, doesn't have to be their parents.
    • Chirp08, on 06/18/2008, -3/+67It's tough choosing between one cup of starbucks coffee a month and endless hours of online play. Some months, I make the wrong choice.
      • Duositex, on 06/18/2008, -13/+5And pay for XBox Live? Sorry. More latte for us!
    • jman583, on 06/18/2008, -1/+14Are you in th UK? because it's closer 4 bucks month in the US
      • rryanhayes, on 06/18/2008, -2/+4no i know, 7.99 monthly or roughly 4.17 a month if paid completely up front.
        • crashingechelon, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1I don't know why you're getting dugg down for that. In the US it does cost 7.99 if you pay on a monthly basis. If you pay yearly it's 49.99 and that amounts to a little over 4 dollars a month.

          I've yet to really pay full price for Live since first getting my account in 2004. The starter kit really brought the cost down when I first got it. I got a couple of subscription cards on Amazon and Ebay for around 35. Then I had some best buy discounts so I got the Live Vision kit.

          There's plenty of ways to go around the cost of paying for Live.
        • rryanhayes, on 06/18/2008, -1/+0ha ha maybe im dugg down for math
      • jordansky, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1I pay $8.99 Canadian.
    • revenz, on 06/18/2008, -14/+3its the principal, why pay to play games online? PSN is free. and theres no way i would pay to play a game like WoW. you've already paid for the game, some games that you would only want to play online (COD4, well single player is fun and all, but you buy it for multiplayer) - so you're effectively paying twice.
      • happyfundave, on 06/18/2008, -0/+5Its more then principal, there is a quality of service with xbox live that easily surpasses the rest of the market and at $4/month puts that money to good use at a price that only super cheapskates like you can argue with
      • sup3rnautx, on 06/18/2008, -0/+0i have x360 and xbl and i must say its nice, but like the article points out, but nothing that fancy. $50USD/yr is a nominal fee; ~$4/mo is nothing to gripe about - you just bought a $350 system. (if this is hindering you, then you might want to rethink purchasing a next gen console)

        we are being told we are paying for a "premium service," not something that can be emulated for free on another platform. if that is in fact the case, i would like to see some improvements and finally some real connectivity between media center PC's and x360.

        if ms decides to let this go, then they will assuredly loose a significant portion of their fanbase once their systems die. in all practicality, there will be almost no reason to purchase another x360 if most mass-appeal games are multi-platform and ps3 offers a version free xbl. i know i wont if this doesnt change...
      • stroupnp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1I understand your perspective... I was there.

        In reality though, despite this horribly written and inaccurate article, Xbox Live is really amazing. Online play for Smash bros on Wii is unplayable and Mario Kart is unreliable.

        I thought that I would never pay for online play... until I saw XBL in action at my friend's house. Then I went out and promptly bought a 360 and the 12 month live account.
    • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -10/+3I totally get it...I can often barely afford the montly cost for Steam. Oh wait, Steam is free...
    • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -1/+0Until your girlfriend (or Mom... whatever) wants her own Online ID. Then they have their hands out again. Got kids who want to play too??? More, please! Doesn't work for me. I don't want my wife playing on my ID and vice versa. It was a tough decision on whether to pay for 360's online service when I had one, but the "multiple charges for multiple Gamertags" thing made the switch to PS3 even easier.

      PS - I have 2 nieces who stay with us a few weeks each year, and they both play online.... with their own IDs... I'm supposed to pay 4 times for 360??? No thanks
      • justice7, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1i have a solution for you
        don't let the bitch touch it.
      • rryanhayes, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0dude what are you complaining about? You mom and your girlfriend and your wife AND your kids want to play video games.... im not seeing the downside here, especially with the girlfriend/wife scenario. Most guys would kill for that situation, because if the girl is infront of the game, then they are off the guys back for playing in the first place.
      • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Give and take, my friend. She accepts me with all of my weirdness intact, so she can handle any of my toys as much as she likes. In return, I can handle HER toys when and how I want!

        Plus, PSN is free. She can have 10 IDs if she wants.
  • Epyn, on 06/18/2008, -15/+246As much as I detest the average live user, what with the chuck norris jokes, singing into microphones, and streaming profanity and racism, I hate to imagine how much worse it would be if it was a free service you could re-sign up for every time you get banned for breaking ToS.

    Free multiplayer services often don't have the amount of control over their players a pay service does. Knowing you may lose your $50 because you cheated/glitched has an impact.
    • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -6/+4how about blocking the console from live for some time? kinda unfair to the other users of the box but hey, at least the guilty gamer will probably be bashed by the other users.
    • Parkinsons, on 06/18/2008, -4/+4Why not just have the game binded to your account like steam? If you want to make a new account after cheating, you have to buy a new game.
      • Epyn, on 06/18/2008, -1/+4Digital downloads and PC keyed games are a different story, since they have unique IDs unlike printed media.

        The negative part of that is you risk running into stolen keys, which isn't a plague but sucks when someone jacks your serial.

        As for banning consoles, that would be a blast for your support department's call queue. Train them all to explain that the $400 console they bought at walmart was openbox swapped after their machine serial was banned.
        • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2since returning stuff in Brazil is an extremely uncommon practice (I reckon most people don't even know they can return stuff for full refund under 7 days) I completely forgot about that. but my idea was a temp ban, like a week or something.
        • Daniel591992, on 06/19/2008, -2/+1nice username! ^^^^
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2Yeah, then we can bring the worst part of Steam to the 360: complete lack of resale ability. If I couldn't trade in games or sell them on eBay I'd probably buy half the games I do now.
      • Cov3rt, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1Xbox 360 Games don't require a massive download or an installation, also meaning there are no serial numbers involved. XBOX > STEAM
    • tidu, on 06/18/2008, -7/+2come on, you know you love us.
      • xerigen, on 06/18/2008, -0/+8You know, I'd like to think you're joking and you're not one of them.. but your Pikachu avatar says you are being completely truthful.
    • superkendall, on 06/18/2008, -10/+5It's not any worse on the free services. Since it's not any worse, why PAY for profanity and racism brought to you by your fellow players?
      • logicalnoise, on 06/18/2008, -1/+5because XBL allows you to only play with people on your friends list if you choose and has a active moderating system. Plus nearly every game has a quick mute option. If you don't have friends there's plenty of sites with listings of XBL members who don't swear profusely and are overly mature. I mean People yell at XBL for having all these profrane dicks but the CounterStrike/team fortress 2 community has just as many.
        • greevar, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1It's true what you say about steam and profanity, but I'm not paying $50 a year to put up with them.
    • Tebixan, on 06/18/2008, -2/+1MS also releases free updates to a lot of their games. Like free map packs, free songs (for GH) and such. Not everything is free, but some stuff is. Plus there is a lot of downloadable content that you can pay for if you want it.

      Will the PS3, without charging anything, be able to offer the same quality of online service as MS? Stable servers, lots of downloadable content, etc?

      If they can, then I bet MS will make some changes to stay competitive. If the PS3 version stays free and inferior, then I doubt MS will change their model, because it works.
      • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1Sorry, where?
        They release them for free eventually, once everyone that would have paid for them has paid anyway, but that doesn't mean you're up to date, because now everyone is playing the new maps that you can buy for the low price of 800 MSpoints.
    • SpeedSteamBoat, on 06/19/2008, -0/+3Despite your assertion. The vast majority of the some the WORST behavior I have ever seen was on Live.

      Online PC is largely player regulated. While that results in occasional "admin abuse" it also means their is usually someone around to kick out trouble makes and the obnoxious immediately. Better yet, having someone their able to deliver a sincere warning is usually enough to end the problem anyway.

      Having someone banned from their account at some later time is a pretty crappy means of deterrence really. It does literally nothing for me when it counts (in game), and often that sort of threat seems distant to people. They often won't take it seriously until it happens, and why should they? The Live rules are enforced so poorly and inconsistently that it should be no surprise that games are filled with loud mouthed asshats blasting distorted rap over their headset.

      In short, when users run the servers they care about them, and people have a much greater tendency to respect that. No one cares about the distant XBox gods until their account gets banned, and that is very unlikely to happen.
      • DIAF, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1live- controlled by xbox gods
        pc- controlled by players
        psn- controlled by ?

        free network + no players with admin rights = crappiest of the 3
    • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0PS3 seems to have a higher barrier for entry, and I have found the people online to be somewhat reserved compared to my previous experiences. I'm sure that will change as more people jump on...
  • LetsGoHokies, on 06/18/2008, -14/+388I actually wish it cost more. Maybe that would keep 10 year-olds from screaming curse words and racist remarks the WHOLE time I am online.

    But probably not, mommy would pay 10 times that for little Timmy to be happy.
    • RudeTurnip, on 06/18/2008, -24/+5Change your "Zone" from Underground to Family if you're offended by people cursing.
    • shondell, on 06/18/2008, -1/+33I was about to say, the little ***** brat would scream and bitch until his whore of a mother buys the ***** for him instead of beating his ass.
      • VacantThoughts, on 06/18/2008, -2/+39Beating your kids is the way to go, as soon as they act up you have to give them a few good smacks with a belt to show them they are no better then the family dog.
        • richiewrt, on 06/18/2008, -1/+34Hell no, I wouldn't beat my dog. Kids get the belt though

        • hammburglar, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1dont forget women too.
    • gryphon50, on 06/18/2008, -1/+6you mean to keep little Timmy out of her hair!
    • woulok, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3MORE money? I hope Microsoft doesn't see that
    • Tebixan, on 06/18/2008, -2/+10You can mute other players pretty easily
    • Spooky, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3Go join 2o2p.com and game with adults...best thing I have done yet with Live.
    • woofers07, on 06/18/2008, -1/+2Although I completely agree with your idea, realistically, it would suck, a lot of the real gamers and the people that make online gaming fun probably wouldn't afford it, and those annoying as ***** 10 years olds are already spoiled rotten by their parents so they'll pay for it anyway, pretty much causing XBL to be comprised of these little ***** heads.
    • Yazilliclick, on 06/18/2008, -4/+1Tell your brother to shutup next time then. Honestly don't see what it has to do with live.
    • Modestexcuse, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3I couldn't agree more. I would gladly pay $10-15/month to play without the 10 year olds, or those older that act 10.
    • JayD16, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3I really don't understand this logic. PSN is free and there doesn't seem to be any big problem there.
      • calibration, on 06/18/2008, -2/+1Because there are less people.
        • JayD16, on 06/18/2008, -0/+4Hows does that make a difference when you play on a full server?
      • BroodofEvil, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1No halo fanbois there.
      • fattymcgee311, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1I totally agree. I have been playing COD4 for months now on the PSN and have only had one occasion where I had to leave a game because a user was so annoying. I hear it is quite a regular occurrence on XBLive where you have to pay for the service.

        I don't think its the price of the service, I think its the price of the console that has made the difference. Kids can talk their parents into swallowing the price tag for the XBox much more easily than the PS3. Who knows....
    • Milo45, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0That would be nice if there was an age limit (at least like 14), yet it would be too difficult to enforce.
    • SpeedSteamBoat, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1Yeah, unlikely to help anything.

      You know what would help that? A real moderation architecture.
    • Magnut, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Dude, just play on mute. easier pwnage.
  • LaSepultura, on 06/18/2008, -23/+88It put the $50 a year or whatever it is on my credit card and don't even think twice about it. I can't believe there are people out there who complain about it not being free.
    • shondell, on 06/18/2008, -7/+21I think, it IS because Sony's has been updating and improving the PSN to the point where it can compete with Xbox Live. And with the confirmation of firmware 2.40, the features keep getting better. So now the question is, if Sony can make their service free to users, why not Microsoft?
      • GastricContents, on 06/18/2008, -9/+2Your phrase "I think, it IS" is not the grammatically accurate response to any part of his post.
      • GhostRican, on 06/18/2008, -5/+3CORRECTION: Sony is improving their service, but it still cannot compete with Xbox Live. Try getting a game on there. There's nobody on, no voicechat, it sucks. Yeah it's better, but it has a long way to go.
        • talkingcheese, on 06/19/2008, -1/+5What are you talking about? My 3 year old Motorola bluetooth headset works fine for voice chat.
        • NCg8r, on 06/19/2008, -0/+0Liar. PSN is fine. Have you even tried it, or is that just what your Frat Bros tell you?
    • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -6/+11that's the point of the article, the competition offers it for free, MS charges 50 bucks. why shouldn't it be free?
      • WaxenPith, on 06/18/2008, -5/+13because its a better service!!!!!!!
        • SealandRes1, on 06/18/2008, -5/+8How is it a better service? The article has shown that feature-wise, XBL gold is not a better service compared to other free alternatives.
        • polygons, on 06/18/2008, -3/+8I think you missed the point of the article. It's basically saying that the PSN is updating and bringing its service on par with Live for free so why can't Microsoft do the same thing.

          Live definitely is the greater of the two competing services but Sony is showing that you can get to that point for free as well.
        • cleric04, on 06/18/2008, -3/+1But they haven't proven you can make money at it which is of some concern to corporations.
        • WaxenPith, on 06/18/2008, -5/+2Get over it you ***** jews, it's 50 dollars... A YEAR.

          If you wanna talk about free alternatives then go play those and stop complaining about xbox live.

          Seriously, if you can go spend your time somewhere else, then go do that and stop bitching.

          Let us be stupid consumers on our own, we don't need you do fight for us, we're having too much fun!
        • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -0/+4"The article has shown that feature-wise, XBL gold is not a better service compared to other free alternatives."

          A Hyundai might have all the bullet point features of a BMW too, but that doesn't mean it's as good. You have to compare the total user experience on both consoles.

          Disclaimer: I own a PS3 and have never played XBL (I'm not a big online gamer), I'm just pointing out the flaw in the reasoning.
      • maxsunset, on 06/18/2008, -0/+4Gamers are widely know to be some of the cheapest SOB's around. OF course they're going to bitch about it. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if A) Sony starts charging for PSN soon, or B) MS drops the price of XBL. Otherwise they're gonna have to start offering something more compelling that what they currently have.
      • jedikv, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2Gamers being cheap SOBs? Tell that to the people who bought a PS3 just for MGS4
        • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -1/+0The term you are looking for is "Retarded Fanboy"
    • redhitman, on 06/18/2008, -10/+7It's basically just over 4 bucks a month, are you really gonna miss that little bit of pocket change?
      • whyufail, on 06/18/2008, -5/+8Are you really going to let them bend you over for your pocket change "just because?" You were the guy who just handed his lunch money over to the schoolyard bully weren't you.
    • JinnRikki, on 06/18/2008, -7/+2Put it on plastic and it's almost like not paying for it...right? You must have one of those interest free credit cards I've heard so much about.
  • Serphyas, on 06/18/2008, -26/+15Ponying up for a year's-worth of Live was the worst decision I've made in recent memory. It was fun for about a week; nowadays it's a laggy experience, and everyone online is a 9-year-old racist homophobe mouth-breathing into their microphone.
    • username9000, on 06/18/2008, -7/+11lol. you don't have a 360.
    • mike17032, on 06/18/2008, -0/+7If gaming is lagging for you over the 360, then its your ***** terrible connection that is the problem.

      MS does not host the game servers themselves.
      • WhereAmI, on 06/19/2008, -1/+1Its not just his ***** horrible connection thats the problem its alot of peoples ***** horrible connection that is the problem. Its not like we can choose to be host.
        • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0No, the system chooses host. Mainly based on your CONNECTION HISTORY. So, when you are a tard who has a great connection, but you repeatedly disconnect from games early, how is the game supposed to recognize you as host?
    • Psythik, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1Get a better internet connection, and use the feedback system to filter out the children & douches.
  • Theoldwiseman, on 06/18/2008, -33/+9wow gold suscription is a waste of money, fanboys start to wake up.........................
    • mike17032, on 06/18/2008, -1/+11If it keeps trolls like you away, I would pay twice what I do now.
      • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -3/+1wow, why don't you mail them the extra money, fanboy?
        • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0Let's get a little real, when I've spent the 350 extra dollars on live that PSN retards did on their console, it'll be a problem.
        • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0Or, in addition, why don't I force my gamers to pay extra for a blu ray drive that's frickin pointless unless you own a 1080p tv? Cause I've heard from all the newbs how their bluray looks great on that 27in sanyo tv they've had for the last 19 years, without any idea what the hell they're saying or the fact that, "gasp" it downconverts to REGULAR DVD QUALITY if you don't have the HD TV. Congrats, while every platform I've seen has fanboys PSN is more rabid about it than any others I've seen. After all, they try to claim people feel defensive and have to "justify" a 50 dollar a year cost, while not realizing that anyone in the room sees them just trying to "justify" 700+ dollars for a console that only had one feature(Bluray, for those of you not paying attention) that other consoles didnt. And you don't even get the benefit unless you also went out and got a tv that would support it. And for you trolls, that was on Launch Day, not today. Today you still need that tv for the only thing PSN has that matters. What's changed?
  • f4nt0m4s, on 06/18/2008, -25/+13I see two reasons:
    1) your friends have Xbox Live and you get forced into the social community

    2) you have never experienced the true depth of online PC gaming, and you think Halo is the height of online FPS. Anyone who has played Starsiege Tribes or Quake or even Counter-Strike will tell you the PC community is ripe with free content and good quality.

    The online console revolution has been revolutionary for the people in category 2, and has been passive for everyone else.
    • samuelmcm, on 06/18/2008, -2/+2Why is he getting dugg down?
      • Dauntless1, on 06/24/2008, -0/+0Cause getting a pc that can run all of today's games isn't as cheap as a console, and they don't want to admit the entry level console runs their favorite game with more stability than an entry level pc.
    • phantom_mullet, on 06/18/2008, -3/+6I do agree with you in that I have a personal preference for PC games, but that's about it. My roommate has XBL and I certainly enjoy jumping online with him for a console match on occasion. They're two separate platforms: one is much easier in that you don't have to worry about having to maintain hardware that is up to par with the game while the other requires a much larger investment, but can be more rewarding depending on who you are.

      Don't just bash console gaming because "the PC community is ripe with free content and good quality." You likely spent over $1000 on your PC (if you invested in a good graphics card and processor), so don't tell people who spent $300-400 on a console that they're fools for paying $50 a year.
      • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -3/+2You spent $300-400 for your console. You spent $60 for your game. You spend at least $50/month for your internet connection.

        Why should you spend for simple online connectivity features, using what you've already paid for, in games whose developers don't want to charge you to play their game?
        • phantom_mullet, on 06/18/2008, -0/+3Your argument is invalid. Think about it: besides the console, both of the other items you're mentioning have the same cost on a PC (even if you pirate games, which you can't really do if you play online with Steam, piracy can apply to both consoles and PCs).

          Assume you spent $1000 to build a PC and paid $400 for an Xbox 360. All other costs aside, you'd have to subscribe to XBL for 12 years @ $50/year to break even.

          I don't even own a console, but I'm saying that the original poster's argument is not valid based on cost alone.

          I DO, however, have a problem with Microsoft slapping ads on paid subscriptions. I think that is wrong on their part.
        • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2@phantom_mullet

          Two flaws with your argument:

          1. Most people are going to own a computer anyway, so its not fair to compare the full price of a PC to a console.

          2. PC games are normally $10 cheaper or so than console games, so you'd have to factor in that savings.
        • cthellis, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1If you notice, my argument was not in comparing costs between platforms... It was that YOU'VE ALREADY PAID for each and every element needed to play games online, and the developers simply do not want to charge you more. Why are you content to do so?

          Gold membership would be fine if the features were premium only... but that's not what it is. It's leveraging the most compelling thing (the ability to play games online whatsoever) and giving you a few extra shiny baubles to distract from the fact that they're forcing you to PAY for what NO ONE ELSE charges you for... and what the game creators don't WANT to charge you for.
      • magusat999, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1When a person pays for a console, they are paying the price for one thing - to play games. When a person pays for a PC, they are paying to do a plethora of activities. Games; Surfing the internet; Communicating with friends, family, co-workers; Creating Art, music, literary works; Education, both self and institutionalized; Financial affairs; Purchasing and selling; Research; Job hunting; Stock Market; Getting the News, Weather, traffic Reports; Seeking fame and fortune, and a host of other tasks. If you divide the price by the functions and uses, just from the few things I mentioned it comes out to $83.33 per function for a $1000.00 PC. A console = $300.00 - $600.00 per function (ONE - playing games) not including peripherals, online fees, content fees, and of course the costs of the games themselves.

        So your arguement does not not hold water.
  • soot, on 06/18/2008, -14/+182I just want to know why there are paid advertisements plastered all over the Dashboard when I pay for a monthly subscription.

    Microsoft should offer another service tier that lets players use the full set of online functions for free in exchange for having to view ads in between games or something. I hate seeing ***** for Gamestop and Nissan or whatever all over the screen when I'm using marketplace.
    • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -1/+7isn't there a way to make your router block the ad servers?
      • soot, on 06/18/2008, -0/+16Not that I've heard. Don't the Live servers host the marketplace ads anyway?
      • chrisreynolds, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1That's not the point anyhow. You are paying to get advertised to. Not that Sony is any better about that with it's new Quore . . . Qore . . . ***** CORE.
        • cthellis, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1At least you're not forced to join Qore to play online. ;-) Sony's retardation in that respect will simply point out that people won't ***** PAY them for that retardation, thus forcing them to change the nature of that service to something else.
        • chrisreynolds, on 06/20/2008, -0/+2Yeah good point. I wish I could afford a ps3 so I could have both. I'm a new dad so I have no idea how much time I'll get to spend online. so the ps3 would be perfect for me. That and I am a long time metal gear fan. This is the first Metal Gear Solid I haven't bought at launch.

          Growing up sucks kids.
    • teamparadox, on 06/18/2008, -14/+10most of the ads are game related and they arent in your face and alot of time ads pay for the content thats free
      • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -1/+15the content is not free if you are paying for it, is it?
      • logandurand, on 06/18/2008, -0/+6You know shat should pay for content? The subscription fee!
      • Zyphron, on 06/18/2008, -0/+12I think you are thinking of a service called Steam, which IS in fact free and which the ads are NOT in your face. If you are refering to XBL, then the ads are in the MIDDLE of the screen and I am PAYING 50 bucks a year for it.
    • superkendall, on 06/18/2008, -4/+19Cable originally charged because they weren't going to have ads...
      • JayD16, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2If you count HBO and other premium channels then cable does have a multitier system.
      • EtherGnat, on 06/18/2008, -0/+9Who diggs this stuff up?

        Cable TV started in the late '40s as a way to extend broadcast television to remote areas. The first cable system in the US started in 1950 and provided Philadelphia broadcast stations (complete with advertising) to those in Lanford, PA.

    • Sakumi, on 06/18/2008, -2/+9I couldn't stand that either. Was one of the many reasons I sold my 360 (a very minor reason, but it was in the laundry list).

      I paid 50 a year and still get banner ads when i turn my console on. How annoying is that?
      • soot, on 06/18/2008, -1/+6Very. Live works well, but my big mark against Dashboard is that it looks like something some toddler puked up after eating a box of crayons with ads stuck all over it.

        Sony's Cross-Media Bar was designed way better purely from a visual standpoint.
        • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3The blade interface for the 360 is much better from a usability point though. If only you could get a PS3 theme for the 360...
        • JayD16, on 06/18/2008, -2/+2"The blade interface for the 360 is much better from a usability point though. "

          Explain? Never have I ever seen anyone look at the XMB and say its hard to use.
    • logicalnoise, on 06/18/2008, -0/+29you can turn ads off. It's in your gamertag options. thing is then you just get big empty spaces and I tend to asthetically perfer at least something there rather than nothing.
      • soot, on 06/18/2008, -3/+12Thanks, I didn't know that.
      • battletrax, on 06/20/2008, -0/+1164 digs.

        Come on people you can turn ads off
    • tonyscha, on 06/18/2008, -1/+10Actually I perfer some of the ads, find out about new demos being released and such!
    • GhostRican, on 06/18/2008, -1/+4Jesus who cares. Just don't read them.
      • Snuff99, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1If I put a billboard in your front yard and asked you to pay me and just ignore it, that would make sense to you?
    • estvir, on 06/19/2008, -1/+3Plastered all of the Dashboard? Uh, there's like a single block on some of the Blades which hardly ever draws attention..
    • Paradiddler45, on 06/19/2008, -1/+0You pay for your television service, yet advertising is everywhere. Same difference.
      • Apocolypse007, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2i just love it when people say "same difference" as if it makes sense. It just dosen't sound right to me. Im not picking on you in particular Paradiddler. It just irks me.
        • thebuggalo, on 06/19/2008, -2/+2i just love it when people say "irks me" as if it makes sense. It just doesn't sound right to me. Im not picking on you in particular Apocolypse. It just ticks me off.
    • galvo, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1There's advertisements? I barely notice them, if at all.
    • Keyframe, on 06/19/2008, -0/+1As long as the ads don't stop me from what i am doing, i can tolerate them.
  • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -26/+11Xfire, along with other free services does for the PC exactly what Xbox live does for the Xbox. Why does anyone buy consoles for online gaming again?
    • lordtyros, on 06/18/2008, -16/+6Because they're teenagers.
    • teamparadox, on 06/18/2008, -4/+19because its quick, easy, i can play on my nice big hdtv with surround sound while sitting on a couch and never having to trouble shoot, hunt down patches, or install drivers.
      • Parkinsons, on 06/18/2008, -2/+6I have had more problems with my 360 then my PC.
      • boobsbr, on 06/18/2008, -0/+6you still get half-baked games and have to wait for the damned patch. how can you get a patch for you game if you don't have live access?
      • deaftly, on 06/18/2008, -2/+3was wondering when the pc elitists would show up.
      • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -0/+3Consoles have all the problems of PC's now. So you really dont have a point. As for couch, tv, and surround sound, its not my fault you put your PC in somewhere else.
      • logandurand, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3Yet another console user who fails to understand that you can connect your PC to your HDTV just as easily as your xbox.
    • cmcguire, on 06/18/2008, -5/+13Because it's easy, and I don't have to upgrade my hardware every time a new game comes out.
      • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -0/+3I only have to upgrade my pc about every 4 or 5 years, about the lifetime of a console...
        • HolyChimp, on 06/18/2008, -0/+1So you're currently using a graphics card from 2003? That'd be what, a Geforce 5xxx? This 4-5 years PC upgrade cycle is ***** when arguing about playing the latest games.
        • cthellis, on 06/19/2008, -0/+2A good card from that time period (say a 5950 or X800) would still play plenty of modern games just fine, so long as you're not thinking you'll be able to support a 24" monitor at 1920x1200, or play Crysis at max quality settings.

          As Steam polls show ( http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html ), plenty of people still play their games on older cards like that, and many still on 1280x1024 or even 1024x768. Older cards on lower resolutions with lower settings... kinda sounds like consoles, doesn't it? ;-)

          I don't suggest a serious gamer keep their same video card for 4-5 years if they want to keep up, but then I don't suggest a serious console gamer only own ONE console, either. Plus, the costs tend to balance themselves out after a while, as the games are cheaper on PC, and the amount of free gaming you can do instead of the current nickel-and-diming-even-for-minor-games on consles doesn't apply.
    • radink360, on 06/18/2008, -3/+10Becauase a gaming pc costs way more than a console?
      • Harabeck, on 06/18/2008, -1/+3But everyone has a pc anyway, why not put the money into it instead of a console?
    • Tiphys, on 06/18/2008, -2/+7I did because I got tired of constantly upgrading my PC to play the new game. Plus, at least for me, it's easier...plant ass on couch, turn on TV, turn on 360. It's easy mode =D
    • petebot,