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- baldr, on 10/10/2007, -7/+50You people never quit. The part of their announcement you left out:
"We've never had to cut content to fit on the disc, and we probably never will."
available here: http://www.bizarrecreations.com/article.php?article_id=5257 - RazorElite, on 10/10/2007, -12/+49Good to see that fans won't be missing out. People are still going to argue that the DVD probably doesn't allow room to use the two sets of fixed textures. But then that brings the argument of how much is the storage needed. Do you really want extra storage if it just means developers are going to waste it on uncompressed data?
In time, I'm sure the extra storage will be helpful, but for now I think DVD-9 is adequate for the average game. - chocobomog, on 10/10/2007, -26/+58Bizarre Creations said this:
"You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city."
And then issued a "rebuttal" saying this:
"DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys."
Those do not contradict each other. They never denied that DVD9 was too small. They sidestepped the issue with tricky wording saying that when they DESIGN the game, they don't worry about DVD size limitation. When you initially design a game you don't have to worry about how big it is, that doesn't happen until you start trying to fit all the content onto the DVD and realize there is not enough room.
They then say the DVD9 is big enough to create fun game, which is true. But they don't say it is big enough to fit everything they wanted to do which is what the first quote says ("Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD").
Sounds like they got in trouble and had to do some spin control... - djSyndrome, on 10/10/2007, -1/+30A BC employee made the statement in a forum post. I'm sure that particular employee isn't allowed within 100 metres of the internet until PGR4 is finished :)
- TheNik, on 10/10/2007, -6/+33Luckily the dual-layer DVDs are plenty! ***** troll.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -17/+43"...PGR fans will be treated to transitioning day/night textures as proof..."
If that's not proof that they aren't constrained by DVDs I don't know what is. - EatingPie, on 10/10/2007, -25/+50*Ring* *Ring* *Ring*
"Hello?"
"Bill Gates calling for CEO of Bizarre creations."
"I'll put you right through!!"
"Bill! Howya doin?!"
"YOU IDIOT! WHY DID YOU SAY PGR4 IS CONSTRAINED BY DVD..!"
"Um, cuz it's true?"
"I DON'T CARE! FIX IT!!!"
-Pie - dvsbastard, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27"DVD size is absolutely not a factor that we consider when designing our games... and PGR4 is no exception. DVD9 gives us more than we need to create a fabulous experience for you guys."
Maybe not your exact words, but its ounds like they are saying that they are not constrained to me... - Renton, on 10/10/2007, -2/+24Are you actually retarded, or just too lazy to look for the source? http://www.bizarrecreations.com/article.php?article_id=5257
- wafflesomd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+21I love digg:
"BREAKING, something confirmed"
"BREAKING, was not confirmed." - Skod, on 10/10/2007, -6/+23I'd rather play a game with static textures and dynamic lighting than depend on the texture map alone to provide the "night experience". The world doesn't load new textures when the sun goes down, why should a game?
- Zero2aHero, on 10/10/2007, -10/+27How are these rumors? Didn't BC themselves make the original statement?
- Myotis85, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16God Damn!! This rumor ***** is getting out of control. MGS coming to 360, not enough space on DVD9... Hell, ***** a Pic section, we need a Rumor section
- Godlike, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Dugg as "I sure don't, but you are seriously a douche dude."
- shelbygt33, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17No, I'm digging you down for posting the same thing across each article dealing with this.
- kronix, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13Not to mention they have 3 cores sitting around and I guarantee not one game is using 100% of all 3 cores. I find it improbably that they don't have a small routine that can decompress textures on the fly running on one of the more idle cores.
- Flynnz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11a lot of people keep saying this...and it sounds like it makes sense in theory. but thats not how it works.
right now to get accurate looking lighting they use prerendered textures that used radiosity lighting effect. these can not be done in real time, and/or at the very least with the anywhere near same quality. And since the buildings are all static it doesnt make sense for them to use raytraced self casting shadows on the buildings. (which also dont look as realistic real time.....notice many games that use realtime shadows have a blocky look......watch mass effect videos to see what I am talking about)
As for the windows again there seems to be misunderstanding here. think about this...they will make some nice textures for the thousands of windows..all prerendered, and realistic looking (and a lot of them copied and mirrored etc). Are you saying they should have a real light that casts shadows in every window of every building? you are talking about thousands of lights. 360 has tons of power....but no way in ***** it can do that in real time.
i think people see some games that use a few dynamic lights, and assume that everything in the scene gets its surface from said lights. It doesnt work that way. just about all textures are made from prerenders, then they may have some dynamic lights just to set the mood, and cast moving shadows.
So to end...if they used ONLY dynamic lighting, the buildings would look fake, and plastic. you NEED textures to create lighting effects that we simply dont have the power to do in real time. It will be this way for a LONG time. Even Cryis from what I can tell still uses textures to simulate most of the radiosity..even though it can do some stuff in engine. - aspec, on 10/10/2007, -4/+14I think you spent way too much time thinking about it.
- kronix2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9DVD-DLs are 8.5gb.
- Skitals, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Obselete? DVD? Have you been to Blockbuster or any major retailer lately?
- drgnpaladin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10***** a Pic section... now that sounds like an interesting idea.
- Skitals, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Holy crap, look at that crop sheet: http://www.bizarrecreations.com/images/news_content/01-08-07/cropsheet.jpg
Looks amazing. I just dusted off my old copy of PGR3. That game is still great, and this looks like it will be much much better! - newJxE, on 10/10/2007, -13/+21Not necessarily, they might add this, but have to remove something else instead
- sampson123, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Because a game that runs at a solid 30fps looks great (see Gears). Most games that claim to run at 30fps actually end up dipping a good deal, especially when things get hectic.
- EXreaction, on 10/10/2007, -6/+14Last I checked, the PS3 costed 50% more than the Xbox 360.
You are paying extra for BR-D even if it isn't being used. Not to mention that if compression isn't used that slow BR-D reader in the PS3 might not be fast enough to load all the textures when they are needed. - pathy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I have no idea what you mean, but I'll let you in on a secret.
PCs have been 'HD' for a long time. - alx242, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7This is just false! They couldn't fit the textures on the disc aka they where limited.
- MWeather, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5PC games are compressed and run on the hard drive. They usually take up more room than the install medium once installed.
- MonkCanatella, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"Yes, they are smacking down the blatant liar who claimed he was an employee but was actually a harry fat guy living in his moms basement jacking off to his ps3.
I buried you because you are a ***** moron. No wait, I bet you dont ***** anything but your hand, so you are just a moron."
Well the "employee" was apparently wrong, because the game is not gonna have static textures at all. It is going to have dynamic textures so the game can seamlessly transition from day to night. I don'no, I'd rather have the dynamic seamless transition textures that PGR is gonna have rather that the 2 sets of static textures that PS3 games are forced to have.
When are you gonna wipe that ***** off that is smeared all over your face?
When are you gonna wipe Bill Gates's semen off YOUR face? - Microdot, on 10/10/2007, -7/+12i find it hilarious that everyone keeps calling it 'rumors'.
it wasnt a 'rumor'.... it was an exact god damned quote from an actual employee making the game. but because it made xbox fanboys look bad... they denied, cried, and complained that it was just made up. hilarious. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7"so much for these extra tracks...***** we'l just charge them via Marketplace!"
- Arkz, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10there are some hyuuuuge pc games and as i recall none of them are on hd-dvds or blu-ray, look at oblivion, mahoosive game... all on 1 dvd, most ps3 games are big cause they have loads of 720/1080p video's on em, where as with the 360 pretty much all cutscenes and stuff is in game, still their both great consoles with great potential, cant wait for september, Halo 3 and Heavenly Sword! WOOO!
- profingersk8er, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7"rather that the 2 sets of static textures that PS3 games are forced to have."
you are missing the point, when developers have room to play with, they can CHOOSE what they want to do, not turn to the right when left side is blocked - hightower77, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Because it isn't on the 360 so it must suck.
- MWeather, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"75% (or more) of the game is installed onto the HD while the DVD is there just for the music and whatever else the developer felt would stream better from the disc."
Actually, 100% is installed. The disk can be removed with a simple no-cd crack. It's just there for copy protection purposes, not that it helps. - panzergeist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5@MonkCanatella
I know it's hard to resist, but don't stoop to his level. Besides, after that little rant on "dynamic textures" (O RLY?), his lack of intelligence is glaring to anyone with even a basic understanding of 3D art and game design. And to makes matters worse, he'll be one of the first to cry foul when the game is released without "seamless transitions from day to night". - HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5They already said the physics are bogus. They're bogus on purpose. If you want a sim racer, play Forza 2. PGR is an arcade racer, and the developers wish it to remain that way.
- AARGH2K, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Funny how people can't believe you can keep all this stuff on a DVD, when PC games that have better graphics can fit on one DVD.
- profingersk8er, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5grow up, if you are going to make fun of me AT LEAST try to sound intelligent.
If you go back and check, it was posted on Bizarre's official forum with a person with "Staff" status.
if you think any user could simply change their states to "Staff" on a official forum, you are our of your minds. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Posting the same thing multiple times on different threads makes you an attention whore. For that I put you on my "This guy is an *****, always digg him down no matter what" ***** list.
- norman619, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Just come out and say it already. It's a huge conspiracy involving the Illuminatie, Bush, and anal probing aliens. Ron Paul is our only hope!!!!
- profingersk8er, on 10/10/2007, -8/+12bury as inaccurate, what they are doing is called damage control
- ridv34, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4See, I don't get it. What does it matter to you if the developers save some time by using a method that uses more data? Point is, they can't on the 360 and can on the PS3. That doesn't make one system better than the other, but it does give developers more leeway.
- MWeather, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Of course they never had to cut content. They make sure it will fit before creating it. If it won't fit, it isn't created.
- KniteWulf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Or, you could read the article on Bizarre's website..
- strictnein, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"The flaws in the 360 can't be fixed, only reduced, without a larger redesign than another heat sink."
I like when fanboys like to pretend they know what they're talking about. It's always good for a laugh. - HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -9/+12Buried as inaccurate. It wasn't a rumor, the info came from Bizarre Creations directly. Now they're just going back on what they said, presumably because MS came down on them like a ton of bricks.
The "rumors" weren't "rumors" and it doesn't appear they were false either.
Buried. - dandonia, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city"
so there is a problem then eh! - jabocsnake123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3This is just ridiculous! PGR3 had half the content that 2 had because of the HD content. They were on G4 talking about how they had to have less tracks to race on because of higher res graphics taking up more space on the dvd. I am sure MS told them to "correct their mistake"!
- panzergeist, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Then BC should have no problems having day and night versions of every track using dynamic lighting, should they?
Believe what you want about my reason for holding my position on BC's original forum statement, but when this game is released, you'll not see both daytime and nighttime versions of every track. Now why do you think that BC would elect to remove daytime and nighttime versions of every track, which was a feature available in PG3, just so they could add real-time weather effects? -
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