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- raingirllori, on 02/29/2008, -46/+662I was told by an Xbox employee that the customer service guy clearly didn't understand the repair procedure, or he would never have told him it would be alright. It's not "Microsoft" that's to blame - it was nothing vicious and purposeful- But the call center should have been better informed.
All repairs and maint are done through a third party company, Jabil, in Renoysa, Mexico. They have a specific set of instructions that they follow assembly-line style, and one of the first steps in that is they scrub the unit down with rubbing alcohol and remove all stickers and so forth that are on it. Any letter with the console would have been disregarded since the workers don't speak English, and are much more concerned with keeping up with the mass amount of work to be done, because they can be fired very easily if they don't. Even in an unusual case like artwork and signatures, the workers have better job security just pushing it through like usual than stopping to ask.
In the long run, someone losing out on precious artwork is less damaging than someone losing their job. - Arkavus, on 02/29/2008, -5/+190So leave a note in Spanish next time?
- CasaMan, on 02/29/2008, -33/+200How not to blame microsoft?!
a) it's a microsoft product
b) it's a customer service representative contracted by microsoft
c) it's a repair center contracted by microsoft
The call and repair center might be third party that doesn't mean it isn't microsofts responsibility.. It is a microsoft procedure and should be known, handled and communicated the same at microsofts, at the call center and at the repair center.. If it is not it is microsofts fault. - Konrad9, on 02/29/2008, -67/+191Cleaned off?
You ever try to 'clean off' some permanent marker?
Someone probably just took the case and made some smudges on a clean one. - Protist, on 02/29/2008, -2/+124Using ethanol you can clean off permanent marker. Definitely possible.
- iPirate, on 02/29/2008, -8/+123Would of? Really?
- Varz, on 02/29/2008, -64/+161Yeah it's just another misinformed bs article trying to blame MS for something. Not that I'm too fond of the company but it is getting ridiculous.
Those stories tend to be pretty popular nowadays, I bet most of the people digging this article only saw the title and didn't even read the story. With all the Mac fans and the sudden influx of PS3 fanboys, it's even more 'cool' now to hate Microsoft.
Oh wait, should I should've used that popular acronym M$,
M$ SUX AND IS TEH GHEY I H8 M$,
there we go, I can feel cool too now. - ursername180, on 02/29/2008, -17/+99Look at what one person wrote down on it. "360? More like three *****!"
And the owner thought it'd be safe sending it in? - aussieNickuss, on 02/29/2008, -18/+95Fair enough....Microsoft ***** him over....BUT.. the guy is pretty stupid for packaging up such a valuable and loved item and sending it off to somewhere that he has absolutely no control over. You can never trust a guy on the other end of the phone (especially at MS) who guarantees that your device will be returned in one piece......all he cares about is plodding on to 5PM to earn his weekly paycheck.
- shade45, on 02/29/2008, -51/+128I would of bought a new Xbox. An put the the new case on the old xbox before sending it for repair.
Then when I got the Xbox back, I would of swapped the case back to the original, and returned it back to the store.
Problem Solved! - Arkavus, on 02/29/2008, -11/+86Right because they had a board meeting to decide whether to clean the marker off of his console or not.
- swordphish, on 02/29/2008, -3/+65Sorry to hear about that. But let's face it, if you get a football signed by an entire NFL team, rule #1 is that you don't play with the freaking football - ever, and you definitely don't send the football out to some anonymous person to get it's laces tightened. Shame on you for not locking it up in a glass case.
- mrhedges, on 02/29/2008, -4/+63Permanent marker comes off fairly well with most thinners. Mineral spirits can do the job pretty well. These guys probably have access to butanone too, which can wash off permanent marker with a quick swipe.
I bet someone was pissed when he read "more like three *****", and decided to clean it off - munkyxtc, on 02/29/2008, -2/+59You can't replace the case without breaking the tamper seal which voids your warranty. If he would have done that then he wouldn't have been able to send it in for repair.
- loconet, on 02/29/2008, -20/+66You can't possible be serious? How can you _not_ blame Microsoft? I am in shock that after all that you explained you would argue that this is not Microsoft's fault. There is no conspiracy here, I too doubt that “Microsoft” purposely erased the case but the company is definitely directly at fault for what happened. The fact that you are blind to this tells me that you either work for Microsoft or that the argument that Microsoft's success is built upon customer misinformation has more weight than previously thought.
First of all, the customer was assured by a MICROSOFT representative (the fact that support might also be outsourced to another country is completely irrelevant) that they would take care of the case and would return the device the way it was sent to them. Moreover, the fact that the call center might have been misinformed only supports the argument it is Microsoft's fault. Who is this call center agent representing? Microsoft. Who is ultimately responsible for the quality of service this center delivers? again, Microsoft. That is simply how it works. That the call center was "misinformed" does not free Microsoft from being responsible, it actually adds to the company's responsibility in the event.
Furthermore, I ask: whose decision was it to hire workers from Mexico, who, as you argue, will opt to strictly follow assembly line procedures in order to secure their job? Microsoft of course. Who established those procedures? once again, Microsoft. In order to be profitable for its shareholders, one of the main duties a corporation has is to keep customers satisfied. If cost-cutting tactics, such as outsourcing repairs to Mexico, is hindering this, then the company might want to rethink its business practices.
Finally, what exactly did they do with the letter? You can assert that workers did not speak English and so the letter would have been discarded, however, any reasonable person can theorize that it was highly unlikely that the customer actually sent the package directly to the Mexico repair shop. The package was more than likely sent to a Microsoft or Microsoft-affiliated location in the United States, where the content of the package would have been reviewed by someone who actually speaks English (if not, again, Microsoft's fault) before being forwarded to Mexico. This voids the excuse that the workers don't speak English. In the rare case that filtering of packages is not part of Microsoft's procedures, it also puts Microsoft at fault. It is not only irresponsible to blindly forward packages that might contain special instructions, but also dangerous.
In conclusion then, the repair procedures you have stated do not, in any way, free Microsoft from being responsible for this mess. They actually reinforce the argument that this is Microsoft's fault. If consumers continue to make blind excuses for “errors” like this, the very fabric of the free market, whose rules Microsoft pretends to play under, is being pissed on. - jeremyduffy, on 02/29/2008, -2/+48"I can't believe an error like this was made!!"
I can't believe this guy trusted them with his case. At the least he should have sprayed some laminate over it or taken the case off before sending it in or taken it to someplace local or gotten some kind of written assurance from MS that the case would be taken care of so he could sue them later (now that I think about it, he missed a golden opportunity there...) - Shiftyeyedgoat, on 02/29/2008, -11/+55eh, Master Chief looked all weird anyway.
- Varz, on 02/29/2008, -31/+74Ignoring the sensationalized headline.
I wouldn't say he was screwed by Microsoft, rather they happened to employ an idiot at wherever they repair the consoles. - Ajajadude, on 02/29/2008, -3/+46I would've just bought a new 360 and kept the other in a case or something after collecting all those signatures.
- Barnolde, on 02/29/2008, -2/+44That really sucks, but his first mistake was writing a letter, nobody cares about the "proud owner" *****. He should've just been clear and concise by printing out a paper with giant red letters that said "DON'T TOUCH THE DRAWINGS" in English and Spanish.
- gregcotten, on 02/29/2008, -7/+48Seriously, "Would of" is what made me really mad about your post.
- inactive, on 02/29/2008, -6/+40I don't have a 360 but the article says "The front serial number and the back serial number match up exactly" , are any of these on the case? If so, I doubt anybody could just take the case.
- terrorpin, on 02/29/2008, -6/+39Is this what the kids call "pwned"?
- WhereAmI, on 02/29/2008, -4/+36Thats a good solution that totally makes sense. Not like Microsoft can tell if the warranty was broke. Also like Microsoft guarantees that the console will be back within that return time frame.
- DocHoliday22, on 02/29/2008, -6/+37Permanent marker comes of easily with the right tools. It was some sadistic ***** at the repair centre who probably took pleasure in wiping the artwork off. He probably read the letter and thought he would do it anyway.
- Coffeedemon, on 02/29/2008, -1/+32"He probably read the letter and thought he would do it anyway."
maybe... but the chain of command in between receiving a repair request and some person getting a work order to actually fix the machine when it arrives is probably so long that the person who did it might never have seen the original notes. - Sinudeity, on 02/29/2008, -2/+32Damn. Does that dude want to clean my car? Fantastic job!
- marktastic, on 02/29/2008, -3/+33Do you even know what 360º is? He'd end up facing the damn thing again. Fools
- dsmx, on 02/29/2008, -0/+28Sorry to disappoint you but permanent marker isn't permanent, isopropyl alcohol takes it off quite nicely.
- aussieNickuss, on 02/29/2008, -5/+32Permanent marker IS NOT hard to clean off. Any non-porous surface that is. Even plain old methylated spirits will get it off with only a small amount of elbow grease.
- insertAliasHere, on 02/29/2008, -7/+34Yeah, the whole company is out to crush the dreams of us little people...it couldn't have been some jackass working there who wanted to be a prick, or someone who does a hundred of these a day just not paying attention to what he's doing. No, it must be that the whole evil company is hellbent on screwing us at every possible turn.
Wow. Just wow. - SlackerCS, on 02/29/2008, -20/+47What a moron. Who gets something as temporary as a 360 signed? Might as well have someone sign a sandwich.
- inactive, on 02/29/2008, -6/+31None of this matters. The fact is, Nathaniel is a pinhead for thinking for a split second that he could trust any repairs department with that sort of treasure. What he should have done was save his pennies, bought a new X-Box, and swapped cases.
- allebone, on 02/29/2008, -13/+38Why is everyone so obsessed with pointing out that he shouldnt have sent it into microsoft? Hindsight is 20/20 - cant you see that at the time it seemed that he would get his original unit back? He called micrsofot and was assured this was the case. If you had the option of buying a new xbox or getting one repaired wouldnt you do the same thing? I doubt Nathaniel knew the exact method or production line that microsoft used to fix xboxes - if you had asked me I wouldnt have instantly assumed that they got sent to mexico and fixed by low paid non-english speaking workers. Perhaps this is nieve to NOT think this but not everyone is as cynical as the next.
The actual problem is that when he called microsoft they should have advised him NOT to send the unit in. As this didnt happen, M$ is at fault IMHO. - logicalnoise, on 02/29/2008, -5/+281.this was the action of some idiot working at the texas repair site and as you seem to not know, the repair facility is run by a separate company than MS.
2. This guy lost no money, the warranty was covered.
But yes this was a mistake on the repair facilities part and since MS contracted them they should reimburse nathanial somehow. - SSUK, on 02/29/2008, -6/+28Defending MS, on the internet? You're a brave soul, my friend.
- Assad, on 02/29/2008, -8/+30How come it's not Microsoft that is to blame ? You just said Microsoft's customer service made the mistake...
- h3lx, on 02/29/2008, -0/+22Lighter fluid cuts through xylol based inks easily. Apply it, let it sit for a minute, wipe it off. 9/10 there's no ghost or anything.
- renagadex2, on 02/29/2008, -4/+25I know even more chemicals that get rid of permanent marker.
- wbeavis, on 02/29/2008, -7/+27First off, the story reaks of inexperience and poor judgement. The guy contridicts himself. First he says he did not want to void his warranty by fixing it himself, but then admits the warranty was expired.
Second, any time you send something out for repair, you HAVE to expect them to do things like this. For example, I remove harddrives with sensitive data before sending laptops back with defective screens and such. If nothing else, it saves time in reloading everything. Repair shops, especially warranty, make little to no money they will do the quickest and cheapest thing they can to ensure a repair.
The last bug in my butt of this story. He claims ONLY two options, send it out or repair it himself. I present you with option 3. Buy a damn new one and retire this unit as a collector item. With signatures on it it's value is increase beyond a new unit.
My recommendation is to gather all you information and such together and take Microsoft to small claims court. They won't show up and you will get a summary judgement and come out a few hundred dollars ahead, enough to buy a new unit. - greevar, on 02/29/2008, -1/+21He should have applied a clear coat to the case so that the marker couldn't be rubbed off. If he made it nigh impossible to remove I'm sure they would just send down the line as is.
- bradcrc, on 02/29/2008, -4/+23I really don't like microsoft, but to try to spin this as some Microsoft conspiracy is quite a stretch.
Someone probably thought they were doing the guy a favor, especially if the earlier post about the repair facility being located in Mexico is correct. - schmimd04, on 02/29/2008, -1/+20i could go for a sandwich right now
- chris9902, on 02/29/2008, -0/+17It matches because they keep the same parts. I had my Xbox rebuilt but it kept the same serial number and backplate.
It still says it was built in 2005 even though it's a new 2007 model. - domokunt, on 02/29/2008, -2/+19Um not MS, just some random overzealous douchebag. When the console gets sent for repairs you can guarantee it just makes the rounds in some warehouse with a tracking number and worksheet, sounds like incompetence and carelessness to me.
- daRoach, on 02/29/2008, -2/+19"What do you think Johnson?"
"Well Sir, the console itself states not to put too much ink or it might overheat..."
"That's probably what killed it."
"It's settled then, clean off the marker, meeting adjourned." - renagadex2, on 02/29/2008, -3/+19I mean it is still Microsoft's fault...how the ***** would this kid know this let alone, why he SHOULD know this.
- ahawks, on 02/29/2008, -1/+16Hey, people get temporary stuff signed all the time. Just think how many breasts have been signed over the years and then washed the next day. Truth is, when you meet someone famous who is willing to sign stuff, most people will throw just about anything at them.
Coolest thing I ever saw signed? A guy next to me at a rally got Ron Paul to sign his social security card.
(please don't bury me for mentioning RP. Hopefully the word "breasts" now mentioned twice will balance my karma out) - CommentPoster, on 02/29/2008, -1/+16A simple dry erase marker removes permanent marker.
- Viral, on 02/29/2008, -6/+21I think the swap-theory has merit. Compare these two pics.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/boysofsheah ...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a124/boysofsheah ...
The right side of the first image is the front of the case. The second pic shows the same side. THERE WAS NO MARKER IN THE CIRCLED SMUDGED AREA. This doesn't mean ink couldn't have been spread out as it was cleaned, but it doesn't seem likely. A much simpler explanation would be that someone swapped the case with another present at the repair depot, and kept the autographed case for themselves. Not to be overly cynical but don't underestimate the human capacity for greed.
Assuming this is true, if someone at Microsoft were ambitious enough they might be able to talk to the tech(s) who serviced the system and "might" be able to right this wrong. Not ***** likely, but possible. -
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