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285 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+180Wow... This turned into Christian bashing pretty quick...
MUHAMMED ON A T-SHIRT people... FOCUS!
This lady is brave! - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -75/+202Good for her. The modern west has tolerated the slow decline of christian theism amoungst its ranks, it is part of the tolerant nature of secular western democracy.
now -- make no mistake -- Islam is exploiting, using it as a back-door, to bring back exactly the opposite: hatefull, violent and ignorance. Muslims, Christians and Jews have been permitted to advocate anti-social nonsense (read koran, bible or talmud) and hatred because The West has the notion that Religion is some kind of special opinion.
Freedom of Conscience is what permits freedom of religion -- but freedom of conscience doesnt permit me to publicly advocate for the killing of %minority%. Why isnt my opinion "we should not give jobs to %persons% for %reason% permitted? If i say those ideas are embodied in my religion, why are these notions elevated? The ideas stand on their merit or they do not, the advocate (or his motivation) matters not. Should we respect my hateful opinions?
Yet, for some reason people are permitted to do *EXACTLY THAT* if they call it "religion".
Any opinion ("religious" or otherwise) -- its a human right -- but public advocacy crosses the line, bringing the opinion into the public sphere. Like "yelling fire in a movie theater" not all speech should be protected... especially not hateful, angry, violent religions (religious speech). - CaptainNoPants, on 10/12/2007, -24/+146Dugg. It's fine for anyone to take shots at Christianity, Judaism, etc., but as soon as someone knocks Islam, BAM, jihads all over the place.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -35/+128One of the things that breeds fundamentalism is the idea that religions should, for some reason, be held above criticism. Because people are highly discouraged from examine their beliefs critically (and because anyone who publically examines those beliefs is decried as a militant atheist, or some such nonsense), harmful and unsupported beliefs propogate.
So why is examination of religious beliefs so discouraged? Some people just feel uncomfortable looking at their own beliefs. These people automatically accept these beliefs and further thought endangers this easy path. Some people are uncomfortable looking at others' beliefs since criticism leveled at others' beliefs may well apply to their own. Some people take the idiotic position that all beliefs are equally valid and equally-well supported by evidence, whether those beliefs stem from science or from religion. And finally, there are the people who acknowledge that their own belief systems lack any support whatsoever but think that truth stems from authority (i.e. my preacher said that this is God's Word, so it doesn't matter what the evidence says, a super-authority endorsed it). Needless to say, none of these motivations are good reasons to abstain from criticisizing religion, especially when religion harms others. - DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/12/2007, -34/+91I'm thinking maybe you just typed too much and lost track of what you were saying, but look at this:
"not all speech should be protected... especially not hateful, angry, violent religions (religious speech)."
I'm as conservative as they come, but since when should we not protect angry speech?? You've got a bias against religion, and you're trying to limit people's freedom of speech because of it.
The popular cliche of "yelling fire in a theater" is not protected because it puts people in immediate harm. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -25/+81@DiggsOnlyNeoCon
Angry speech is fine. Speech that incites crimes is not. You can say "I think gays are disgusting". You can't start a rally to encourage people to lynch gays, even if you claim that you should lynch gays "because God says so, I believe it, that settles it." You can say "Jews are greedy". You can't get together a mob to run Jews out of town even if you to claim that they're "Christ-killers".
No one is trying to limit free speech because of some non-existant bias against religion, and that stupid line won't work for you any better than it did for the Muslims who protested those silly (yet insightful in the reaction they provoked) cartoons. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+70@CaptainNoPants
Unfortunately, that's not quite true. Just look at the judge who presided over the Kitzmiller (Intelligent Design) case a couple of years ago. He's a conservative, Republican Christian. He didn't insult or even criticize Christianity, all he did was rule that Intelligent Design was religious in nature (which is obvious) and thus inappropriate for public schools (which is equally obvious). Yet he received some many credible death threats he required protection. It's a lot better than actual bombs, but it's dangerously close. Just imagine what would have happened had the ruling not been so patently obvious. Just imagine what would have happened had he not been a conservative Christian himself. Just imagine the absolute ***** that would have erupted had he used his position to dump on Christianity.
Fundamentalists are fundamentalists first and foremost, whether they're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim fundamentalists. - DerProfi, on 10/12/2007, -24/+69Fookin awesome. Nice to know there are still some folks with cojones left in Zapatero's al-Andalus.
- mrharvey518, on 10/12/2007, -6/+43barakatx2
I think that the point that you are missing is the irony of the whole situation. The Pope implies that Islam is violent; and they murder a Nun. Cartoons characterize Islam as unruly; and they riot and kill. I'm not sure if the muslims it that either.
Protect Free Speech - pikegizzle, on 10/12/2007, -17/+54While it may be fashionable to compare today's average Muslim extremist with Christian extremists during the Inquisition, the fact is that unlike Christianity, Islam has DEvolved over the years, clinging to 7th century theism that is dangerous at best.
Somehow, I find it difficult to compare Jerry Falwell with a suicide bomber--call me crazy... - razor150, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36That's funny, what happened during these "protests?" Violence and property destruction, in other words it was more riot then protest.
Word to Muslims, if you want to disprove peoples perception of Muslims being violent and intolerant, don't protest it by proving the stereotype. That might help people get ride of their negative opinion if Islam. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35meanwhile those who rioted over a PICTURE should be the ones dead, and/or deported.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37I'm not sure if rioting over a cartoon makes sense: The only reason the Qu'ran prohibits making images of mohammed is to prevent worship of those images or idols. No muslim will bow down before her shirt, so get over yourselves.
In other news: Ancient document claiming islam is a violent religion sparks a series of massacres by angry muslims... - mannymix03, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31+1 Balls
- nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -11/+36This story is made of win. I'm going to buy one of these shirts. Just because people get offended doesn't mean it's wrong. The cartoon makes a valid point about the image of Islam around the world. Just like when Nietze said "god is dead" and it was misinterpreted as an attack on the religion of Christianity (it was a comment about Christians, not God), many now misinterpret this cartoon as an attack on Islam/Mohammad. It is, in fact, a commentary on the followers of Mohammad, not the religion or its founder.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+37Props to that lady! IMHO, what she did was not an act to be an insult, but rather to show that she is not afraid of a ***** up cult... religion. Terrorist drew a line in the sand and she stepped over it with her own free will. She has bigger balls than the French army... a tip of the hat to her!
- mistermanoli, on 10/12/2007, -25/+46its unreal how fast this turned into religion bashing... religion is not bad.. it does not tell you to do bad things... bad people just exploit it to run their own agenda... conservative republicans make Christians look bad, Arab Terrorists make Muslims look bad... the actual religion IS NOT BAD.. i have studied them all and come to no other conclusion..
bad people, do bad things.. .and they drag good people with them...(and then religion gets blamed) - Nighttime, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25If my husband was killed by these guys, wearing a t-shirt wouldn't seem to extreme to me.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21@barakatx2
It wasn't the protest that made me feel that some Muslims were violent and ignorant. It was the ones calling for the killing of the cartoonists that I thought were violent and ignorant. - davdev, on 10/12/2007, -20/+39I prefer the pic with Mohammed ***** a pig, but that's just me
- misconfig, on 10/12/2007, -13/+30That's awesome; I hope every one of the guys on trial saw it.
- TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19The important thing to remember from all this is that we are hypocrites if we can not say the same about some of the symbols we hold dear.Someone can't on one hand laugh at muslims for getting so worked up over a cartoon then call for people burning the american flag to be arrested and fined. Either you are for freedom of expression or against it. There are no double standards here.
- fracktica, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22Sorry to see those who ignited the bombs take the path to the dark side.
- TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18No it's EXACTLY how to protest them. They want to shut us up by scareing us. What better way to protest that then to show them that WE AREN'T SCARED!
- TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20I think someone should have a massive protest where they hand out these t-shirts for free. We should not let terrorists scare us out of our right to freedom of expression. I am willing to die to protect that right. How about you?
- fcekuahd, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21That's not the same thing at all. If fundamentalist Christians assassinate abortion doctors in America, you would have to compare that with fundamentalist Muslims killing liberal Muslims in their home country. And there are plenty of examples of that.
How many fundamentalist Christians commit terrorist acts on foreign soil, killing innocent people at random? That would be a true comparison. - tsf5000, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Awesome. People should be allowed to express themselves in a non-violent way and its really cool, if not surprising, that the judge let her stay in the courtroom. Muslims, and Christians for that matter, need to stop expecting the rest of the world to fall in line with their views. Whatever religion you choose, you take the good with the bad. Nobody owes anybody anything because of their religion. If people feel they can murder in the name of their god, they deserve to be mocked.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+28Brilliant. She'll be dead by the end of April.
- Twist05, on 10/12/2007, -20/+33See, if the caracture wasn't true, then the Muslims wouldn't even have been bothered to be angry.
- black27696, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16First, let me get it out of the way that I know a few islamic people here that are perfectly calm all the time and keep their religion to themselves. If you want to pray to allah several times a day because that's what you believe, then go ahead, I'll be over here praying in church on Sunday's to God, and that atheist can go for a jog around the park (not that all atheists jog, but the guy I'm referring to does). It doesn't matter to me what religion anyone is, I have my beliefs, you have yours. Do I want you to believe what I do? Of course, that's part of my religion, but if you don't, that's your decision. What I do have a problem with is Islamic leaders twisting their religion to say that they're supposed to attack anyone who isn't Islamic. ACTUALLY it says to attack anyone who threatens the religion, which is what we did in the revolutionary war, because they were actually oppressing it. So really, there's no reason for them to attack a country (the US) that doesn't limit your religious practices at all, and furthermore, it doesn't give them the right to be angry because someone doesn't like their religion. She's not trying to kill them for practicing Islam, therefore it shouldn't matter that she doesn't believe in it / makes light of it. Also, how much sense does it make that they're credo is "We are a peaceful people who want our rights and want to be left in peace" yet the extremists say "you don't believe what we do, we're going to kill all of you for it"
I'd like to be dugg up for this, but somehow I don't see it happening.
:-( - cl0r0x70, on 10/12/2007, -17/+30People who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors are Christian terrorists.
People who strap bombs on and kill people at hot dog stands are Muslim Terrorists.
Governments that bomb apartment buildings are National Terrorists.
They are all *****. - gomezfreak, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I don't know, if they had killed my wife in a bombing I probably would have brought them a basket of ham sandwiches.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13@barakatx2
So instead of just explaining to us how we're all so wrong for thinking that some Muslims and ignorant and violent let's say you step up to the plate and tell us that you condemn the actions of those who were violent and those that called for the execution of the cartoonists. - Kikinou, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I like the one where the ascending suicide bombers are told that heaven is all out of virgins :)
- cortlandjim, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20Some Muslim will be so offended that he will kill her while she walks down the street or blow himself up in front of her, killing dozens of others. no that is extreme.
were can I get one! we all should start wearing them let riot and kill each other. eventually they might figure out just how stupid it is. - TheTaoOfBill, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14No one I know personally were killed by terrorists and yet I am strongly compelled to join her in her protest and wear the t-shirt myself...freedom of expression and freedom of speech need to be protected from the terrorists.
- glucoseboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Also, props should also go to the judge for not asking her to leave. He could have just as easily banned her from the court room to protect "sensibilities" but decided that "the woman was free to wear what she liked and could come back to the court if she wished."
- tonich03, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18Hi guys. I'm from Spain and I'm proud of that woman!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+24Ok, once again.
Q. HOW MANY ABORTION DOCTORS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE PAST 20 YEARS BY CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS?
A. About 1/100th of a percent of people killed by Muslim terrorists in the name of Allah.
You are defending people who are much worse than any American Christian. It's sickening. - benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14nobodys going to declare jihad on them if they do so they can feel free to go right ahead.
- humperdeath, on 10/12/2007, -13/+23This woman is the 'Rosa Parks' of today. Good for her! I applaud her courage and wish her well.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@ nestafett: "and no blessings to this woman, anyone who does ***** like this that incites more violence and more division between Islam/Christianity/Judaism/east/west/etc... is an idiot"
Fact is islam and your beloved prophet have caused the divisions between all other beliefs in the world and muslims'.
"Koran XLVII (47) [47.4] When ye encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them, and of the rest make fast the fetters."
I'd say separating someone's head from their neck just because they do not believe what some epileptic pedophile said 1,400 years ago is enough division for me. --American Infidel. - xe3nophon, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20That's cool, my religion says that I have the right to all the land West of the Mississippi. It's in an ancient prophecy. So I guess I will have to militarily coerce the US into giving me that land. After all, its my religion.
- maehem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9She will be a martyr if anything happens to her. Oh the irony.
- flave, on 10/12/2007, -16/+25@mistermanoli (specifically your last sentence)
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics - zovres, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9#1 Theo van Gogh, #2 having lived in France I can assure you freedom of speech doesn't apply to islam related topics.
not exactly riots I see your point I should rephrase and say "why can't we say anything about islam without causing trouble"
and yeah I know it's deeper and no I don't care if you're muslim or not and yeah I care about being able to say whatever the hell we want. - gfreeman223, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12It's called courage and standing up against the ***** who killed her husband.
...
what, you want her to fly to Afghanistan like John Rambo and kill 100 jihadists holding a M-60 with chain linked ammo across her bare chest? - jerryn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Right On! I hope they get the jail for life in the worst condition possible with no possibility of parole, the only way out
is death, but death won't come easy for them. You have to admit, this woman has courage! Stick it in their face! - Badtastic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Good for her!
- fcekuahd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Where did you get your statistics? I can refer you to another source:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
And who killed those 60,000 Iraqi civilians? Most of them are being killed by Iraqi militants. -
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