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232 Comments
- novenator, on 11/09/2009, -16/+175Always found it striking how Christian fundamentalists in the US have no problem with trying to impose Biblical Law at home, but suddenly have a problem with it when the Muslims do it. Funny thing is, there really isn't that much of a difference between Biblical Law and Sharia Law, they are both irrational, intolerant, and outdated. Nobody should take their holy books literally. They make great stories, but they are not history or science.
- AubreyMaturin, on 11/09/2009, -6/+71Just look at what is happening to the GOP. Fractious infighting gave the Democrats a House seat they haven't had since 1850. Yes, EIGHTEEN fifty.
- TomT127, on 11/09/2009, -7/+66Education is the greatest defense against fundamentalists. They recruit poor, uneducated minions that cannot think for themselves.
- emkaysmith, on 11/09/2009, -3/+47First, you're expecting Christian fundamentalists to be both rational and consistent. Good luck with that. Second, fundamentalism is *never* going to completely disappear because the world's supply of fear and stupidity will never be completely exhausted.
The most the rest of us can hope for, I think, is for adherence to demonstrably idiotic beliefs to become so embarrassing, people won't want to admit to them because they won't want to be laughed at in public. Not unlike believing in a flat or hollow earth. Or seriously believing in the Tooth Fairy. - Starsurfer56, on 11/09/2009, -6/+37Yup molesting children, not having a stance against the holocaust, and Gay bashing... Seems like their right on track
- will27, on 11/09/2009, -2/+30@avengingturnip Did you actually read the article, or just assume that you would disagree with the points being made? You may find this article less critical than you expect (though having read some of your comment history it seems like well researched opinions and rational discourse aren't really your thing)
As for "[understanding] the religious impulse", I'd personally give the author more credit than you: http://www.hds.harvard.edu/faculty/em/cox.cfm - sodade, on 11/09/2009, -5/+32We understand your infantile impulse, but we are frightened because there are too many morons in this country that will listen to you over logic and reason.
- Crazysticks, on 11/09/2009, -3/+29Exactly, the extreme neo con right is not going to die out quietly. I saw a t-shirt the other day with a confederate flag that said "the south will rise again".
- 5thdigg, on 11/09/2009, -0/+26oh wait, we don't try to spread our ideology to other countries? news to me....
- xmzx, on 11/09/2009, -6/+30The more educated we as people become, the less we'll need fairy tales to get us through our daily lives. It's so much easier to say "well, god did it" then actually search for an answer.
With education will come independence from this tyrant we call religion. - Starsurfer56, on 11/09/2009, -4/+26And Bush broke several federal laws and crushed our constitutional rights your point being? All president have to break some promises but look at Obama he keeps trying to make good on his by fighting with the fundamentalist republicans in the house and senate
- vishuzmanuva, on 11/09/2009, -6/+27Religion as it is known as today will inevitably cease to exist, IMHO.
- MrSteamTank, on 11/09/2009, -1/+20The goal is to make sure these immigrants integrate rather than try to exclude them. I went to a public high school full of Somalian refugees when I was in Canada. About half of them don't even practice Islam anymore because they have integrated into the culture(they go out drinking, eat bacon, etc). In a generation or two only a very minor % will still be religious.
- DocOctavius, on 11/09/2009, -3/+21Um, that's on a million bumper stickers in my town too. They'll die out in a few generations, except for a very small minority. It's inevitable, it's just going to take a hundred years or so. :P Hopefully less.
- appleseed1234, on 11/09/2009, -2/+20It'll be replaced by ***** religions/superstitions as the invention of Mormonism and Scientology have proven.
- Jektal, on 11/09/2009, -0/+17Yes, and our "bomb the brown people" campaign of the last 8 years has really sent a message of understanding and compassion to the Muslim world.
- Kijael, on 11/09/2009, -5/+20the dark ages weren't called that for nothing
- cntlscrut, on 11/09/2009, -1/+16Yeah, and don't forget the Taz (and other looney toons characters) saying things like "Don't Tread On Me" airbrushed on their casual camouflage wear.
Stay classy... - inactive, on 11/09/2009, -3/+17In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire them, and to effect this, they have perverted the best religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purposes.
- Thomas Jefferson - ChuckDees, on 11/09/2009, -8/+22Let me preference by saying i'm Buddhist and do not believe in any creator.
I am for the most part atheist myself or agnostic whatever not sure exactly were i fit.
But.........
Atheist's have become fundamentalist in nature. They use the same absolutist terms and attitude. They even try to proselytize the "atheist" view and convert people.
I know this isn't a popular view to criticize the new atheist dogma. But absolutist attitudes need to be pointed out. - Thermador, on 11/09/2009, -2/+15Fundamentalism never failed me in Civilization II.
- AgeofMastery, on 11/09/2009, -0/+13How many cultures did Christianity destroy with the combination of missionaries and colonial troops? But that's different right?
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 11/09/2009, -2/+14I visited Rome in 2007 and it was heartbreaking to learn about all the great Roman achievements in architecture, technology, culture etc. that were destroyed by the Christians.
- sivyr, on 11/09/2009, -0/+12"...because the world's supply of fear and stupidity will never be completely exhausted."
Well said.
I've got a warehouse filled with the stuff downtown. I've been making a killing off it for years! - sivyr, on 11/09/2009, -0/+12I have a feeling that terrorism is rarely an attempt at conversion.
- Jektal, on 11/09/2009, -0/+12So, you're a Christian who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible which should be treated as an infallible document applicable to all ages, and you believe in a literal interpretation of the Constitution which should be treated as an infallible document applicable to all ages?
Wow, shocker.
Not to mention the anti-community messages of both camps... - inactive, on 11/09/2009, -1/+13n every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire them, and to effect this, they have perverted the best religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purposes. With the lawyers it is a new thing. They have, in the mother country, been generally the primest supporters of the free principles of their constitution. But there, too, they have changed.
- Thomas Jefferson - sivyr, on 11/09/2009, -0/+11In all seriousness, though...
It's not a double standard if your way is the only correct one.
This has little to do with them being consistent and more to do with them being "correct". If you know you're right, what would you do when someone else tries to teach something to your people that's clearly wrong? Especially something that jeopardizes their peaceful afterlives, replacing them with hellfire and brimstone? - rushiku, on 11/09/2009, -1/+11While differing birthrates are, indeed, disconcerting, you're ignoring the fact that just because one is born into a religion does not mean one will follow that, or any, religion.
- evilawesome, on 11/09/2009, -0/+10Way to digg down a direct quote from a founding father, christians.
- AegisC, on 11/09/2009, -2/+12Exhibit A: cosinezero
- Zippo, on 11/09/2009, -2/+11Fundamentalism only works when there are stupid people who fail to understand the world around them. Sadly, there seems to be no shortage of these people.
- inajeep, on 11/09/2009, -0/+9You are forgetting their idiotic stance on aids and their dismissal of condoms.
- maccam94, on 11/09/2009, -0/+9Fundamentalist and fanatic groups will probably always exist, but their numbers will severely decrease. Eventually they will be just maybe a dozen people who have been somehow convinced that the rest of the human race is wrong. As internet penetration increases and information flows freely, misinformation becomes harder to sell.
- lolerskate, on 11/09/2009, -8/+16Funny how when the Roman empire fell and Christianity came to Europe that humanity stagnated on any technological or philosophical advances for almost 400 years before the renaissance kicked in.
- Maddoktor2, on 11/09/2009, -0/+8Fundamentalism is fundamentally flawed.
- dienaked, on 11/09/2009, -5/+13Yep, after a few thousand years fundamentalism is going to up and cease to exist overnight.
Sure it will. - arkwald, on 11/09/2009, -0/+8I think you miss the point. That fundamentalist religions can't change and adapt as the world changes around them. This is something that western cultures have been demonstrated to do very frequently.
- MonkeyOverlord, on 11/09/2009, -6/+14Why modern secular culture will fail: birth rates. If the Islamic fundamentalists entering Europe have 3-4 kids and the secular white Europeans have 1-1.5 on average (half a kid? Ain't statistics funny?), then it's pretty obvious whose culture is going to be displaced. Even in the United States, the more religious states have the higher non-immigrant birthrates.
Liberals rationalize this decline as being "sustainable," but any student of history knows immediately that collapsing birthrates don't lead to a "sustainable civilization," but rather to a population displacement. - emkaysmith, on 11/09/2009, -2/+10Except education can't be forced. Those who are so weak-minded they *have* to believe in a super-being in the clouds, as a crutch for their own inadequacy, are not going to be convinced by logic and reason.
What always baffles me are scientists who can compartmentalize so successfully that they can pray on Sundays and still do science the rest of the week. Weird. - joculator, on 11/09/2009, -3/+10Could have replaced "fundamentalism" with "conservatism" in this article.
- IHaveIssues, on 11/09/2009, -2/+9You hear a voice in your head?
- arcooke, on 11/09/2009, -0/+7Good riddance.
- Zong, on 11/09/2009, -3/+10I think some form of religion will continue to exist. Religion provides a kind of escape of responsibility and reality that many people cannot operate without. The concept of death to people is soo outrageous that they get tons of comfort from thinking their is a magical world beyond this one.
- MonkeyOverlord, on 11/09/2009, -6/+13Funny how you don't know your history. The **Western** Empire fell. The Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantines, did not fall until the start of the Renaissance, and the Renaissance itself was the result of Orthodox Christian scholars fleeing from the collapsing Eastern Empire to Italy and France in the face of Islamic aggression.
The "dark ages" in the West were not only not due to any religious event, but were actually ended by the Catholic Church's monasteries preserving most of the Western Empire's learning, and their efforts to convert the barbarians to Christianity. The time when the barbarians that brought down the empire stopped wrecking havoc and started building real nations roughly corresponds to the time that the Catholic Church was successful in its missionary work in those territories. The Merovingians, Catholic Frankish monarchs, were the ones who finally put down most of the instability. - sivyr, on 11/09/2009, -3/+9If you're suggesting that we should be more worried about cultural displacement than maintaining a sustainable global population, you need to screw your head on straight.
- Starsurfer56, on 11/09/2009, -2/+8Your right about him supporting some patriot act statues which I also don't like (I don't know why your dugg down)
I agree some of the concerns not limited to one party but increasingly the republican party has been acting childish interrupting debates when the house is in session (makes them look like the retarded class clown that sits in the back heckling the teacher) with classy "you lie comments" or "I object".
The republican party is losing creditability at an alarming rate and is progressively being taken over by hate mongers and fundamentalists... This is turning it into a hotbed for domestic terrorists
The issue is should the government have more control in healthcare and I believe they should... I mean my uncle just came out of the hospital for a month with a $1.5 million dollar bill and he had insurance! (Preexisting condition BS) How can you say these people don't need regulation - superkendall, on 11/09/2009, -3/+9ChuckDees thanks you for "absolute" proof of his point. You sound about two steps removed from a "final solution" kind of approach.
Plenty of scientists are also religious you know... there is room for both things. - arkwald, on 11/09/2009, -2/+8Ok Edward Gibbon. Christianity isn't that important, for if it was then we wouldn't be here as Christianity hasn't really diminished until just recently. The real answer is a lot more complicated. It was trade, technology a power vacuum that triggered the renaissance. In fact I will go out on a limb and say that if Romanos IV didn't fail at Manzikert in 1071 then western Europe would still be in the dark ages. It was that battle which lead to Urban II calling for a crusade to liberate Muslim Turkish occupied Anatolia. That lead to the crusades which lead to a reorganization of Europe. It gave the west it's first real interaction with the Middle East since Roman times. It lead to trade routes being overtaken by the Venetians and others. That lead to a series of conflicts between Arabs, western Europeans, Greeks and Venetians that culminated in the destruction of the Byzantine empire along with it's inheritance of classical knowledge. That got passed onto western Europe, and the Italian peninsula explicitly. That competition for trade by western powers and the expansion of the Ottomans in the 15-17th centuries lead to first Portugal trying to sail around Africa and then Spain sailing west and finding the new world.
In all of this religion ends up being a ancillary concern. It wasn't that people were afraid of Islam, it was that they were afraid of people coming to force Islam on them. It was more about people trying to expand their power. Trying to steal or eliminate competition that drove millions of people to run about the Eastern Mediterranean. Everyone throwing around their favorite religious book to cover up the fact that it was their ambition for wealth and power that was what was key. It was in this competition that knowledge was spilled out into Europe and in the tight knit confusion of Northern Italian city state politics blossomed yielding the greatest explosion of art to have ever happened. - inajeep, on 11/09/2009, -0/+6I agree about it coming back and changing but I think it won't keep coming back stronger. It will build up until common sense from others beats it down. Unfortunately it will continue to due damage on the way and down.
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