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129 Comments
- tmacfan123, on 05/03/2009, -3/+82I went to school in India and although teachers did punish us, they never did something like this. This teacher was obviously just cruel and murdered this little girl. I'd be shocked if she didn't go to jail.
- sirajul, on 05/04/2009, -3/+57I'm a 53-year old Bangladeshi, and I can remember what corporal punishment was during my childhood. It reigns everywhere. Corporal punishment breaches the child's self respect, self-dignity, and physical integrity. The level and intensity of punishment varies according to the nature of the 'mischief' and 'disobedience' on part of the child. However, external factors like poverty, over stressed parents and teachers, underpaid and untrained teachers, unemployment and so on, also play an important role in aggravating the physical act of punishment in the name of discipline. Corporal punishment is an intentional infliction of physical pain following to 'misconduct' or 'wrongdoing' for the purpose of deferring future misconduct. From my experience, I can tell you that it involves pinching, slapping, pulling ears, spanking, strapping, pushing, wrestling holds, cracking fingers with ruler, arm twisting and shaking, and in worse-case, resulting in death like Shanno died. As cases of corporal punishment are hardly reported, I'm sure accurate data or statistics for such cases are not available with any government agencies, non-governmental organisations and child rights organisations. Both available statistical and anecdotal data show that corporal punishment is practiced in every society and that across the world millions of children are being tortured physically and emotionally by their parents and teacher or those who are charged with their care.
Corporal punishment is a crime. But by making law, or enforcing it, hardly it can be handled. Corporal punishment is accepted socially, and teachers everywhere defends the criminal behaviour of their colleagues. Sometimes parent do the same, and elders defend disciplining children by torture. I pray for Shanno's departed soul, and stress to end the social acceptance of corporal punishment. - thepeacemaker, on 05/04/2009, -1/+30Beating kids with sticks and canes is a common practice in Indian schools. And being on the receiving end of those kinds of punishments, I can assure you that those were no "slap on the wrists" or "innocent spankings". In India we are taught never to question the teacher, to take abuse quietly, and to not question authority. There is a reason why so many Indians you may run into are meek and introverted. And partly that is the reason we are really good with following orders and back office jobs instead of innovation and thinking outside the box. Someone above mentioned that Indians are notorious cheaters and that is 100% true. We were so scared ***** of getting beat up by teachers and/or parents that we would do whatever it takes to get the job done.
- Canadian0207, on 05/04/2009, -12/+35and yet, the education system in india is far more rigorous than the USA, and produces far more intellectually talented individuals regardless of their meager education budget.
- directedition, on 05/04/2009, -0/+23Indeed. There is quite a difference between corporal punishment and gross negligence.
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……,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-, - LocalScope, on 05/04/2009, -5/+20"produces far more intellectually talented individuals regardless of their meager education budget"
Part of that is the shear number of students they have compared to the USA. They have 4x the population. I would home more talented students would come from a larger pool. - eryximachus, on 05/04/2009, -10/+24You obviously are from the suburbs.
Check out the NYC public schools sometime. Most students are barely even human - they obviously require the same kind of discipline as an animal. - inactive, on 05/04/2009, -4/+18As barbaric as it sounds, I know people who have gone through the corporal punishment system in India. Apparently it's just part of their culture. Some people actually credit it for making them much tougher mentally. I'd never want to go through it, but to each his own.
- smedrick, on 05/04/2009, -1/+15I went to college with a lot of Indians and they were all notorious cheaters. They had their own "network" with a library of old tests, papers and cheat sheets. If the prof or TA ever left the room during a test, they would all start mumbling the answers to each other. The behavior makes a little more sense now that I've read about this corporal punishment method of "education".
- craeyon, on 05/04/2009, -2/+15This ***** is nothing. Back in New Delhi, even in a private school, the punishments were military style on a regular basis. Things like lift up your hands straight up high and stand there until your arms strain. Slap the ***** out of the child if they don't do their homework. Whip you on the hand with metal ruler. etc. etc.
..and then I arrive in Canada where the worst punishment was... (wait for it!) getting sent to the principle's office. You white kids have no idea... - inactive, on 05/04/2009, -3/+15I have nothing against beating kids, a few slaps on the wrist is ok by my book, but this is too far man.
- OrangeTide, on 05/04/2009, -1/+13I think you need to back up your claim "produces far more intellectually talented individuals" with some real data.
Although I would generally agree that it does not appear to matter how much you spend on education. The US spends a boat load, but do so very inefficiently. Very little of the money we spend on education makes to the children. Also you can't realistically group all the US together, because each state maintains their own budget and unique system. California is different from Georgia is different from Vermont. - airwalkery2k, on 05/04/2009, -1/+13"He breaks down while relating Shanno's last words to her mother: 'I never want to go to school again.' Shanno died the next day, on April 17."
That made me stop reading in my tracks and I got a little sad. Her wish was fulfilled, in the cruelest of ways. - Gguillorn, on 05/04/2009, -1/+12Most of the really out of control students get violently punished at home, but that doesn't seem to work so well.
- inactive, on 05/04/2009, -4/+15Spare the rod and spoil the child.
I don't think corporal punishment is the end-all be-all of discipline, but it is certainly a valuable tool amongst others. As with everything, proper use is a matter of degree.
Proper corporal punishment is mild compared to the trouble an undisciplined child can get into, especially as an adult. - Gguillorn, on 05/04/2009, -6/+17Pretty lofty. Also unrealistic, preachy, and impractical. But hell, if it makes you feel better, go for it.
- neoknight, on 05/04/2009, -2/+13While I don't exactly think beating a teacher is the solution, I certainly wouldn't hire cheap thugs do stand up for my child.
I'll just do it myself. - chinaman1212, on 05/04/2009, -6/+16your getting buried by people that don't have kids.
- CoD4, on 05/04/2009, -8/+17These beatdowns are the reason the Indians and the Chinese students learn more stuff in schools than Europeans and Americans.
Once you get hit upside your head with a Duster, you'll definitely remember that day's assignments. - inactive, on 05/04/2009, -1/+10I dont know what worst, being given a good whiping, or being psychologically abused like i was.
- inactive, on 05/04/2009, -3/+11I agree with you to an extent, I think there are plenty of American kids who deserves a serious beatings to whip them into shape. On one extreme you have parents or teachers who beat their kids black and blue, on the other extreme you have them spoiling their kids by giving them everything they asked for. There is a middle ground somewhere that is right for everyone and I think its the parent's responsibility to find that balance.
- charlie6969, on 05/04/2009, -1/+9Thanks for letting us "hear" a different perspective; based on experience.
- silverchrysalis, on 05/04/2009, -0/+7as a kid who encountered plenty of both growing up, i'd take a good butt-whuppin' any day over a steady stream of being told i'm worthless, ugly, an accident, not good enough for life, etc.
however, this was neither- it was a kid forced to stand out in hot sun, motionless and without water, for over 2 hours. that's torture, in my estimation, and it led to death. - saady87, on 05/04/2009, -0/+7....really...I think it all comes down to drive. Most people in India are poor as *****, and if they have a chance for an education they will study as hard as they can just so they can have a better chance in life. Over here, America is a fairly rich country and the parents do spoil most of the kids by giving them whatever they want or giving them something in the first place. It's not so much about intellectual talented individuals as it is about a chance to break through.
When I came from Pakistan my dad essentially drilled into my mind, study get grades be the top in your class and always remember you could be stuck in Pakistan now - cnldelta, on 05/04/2009, -1/+8If it were run by Indian administrators, they would have allowed the cheating to happen so that it appears that an Indian run college provides better 'quality' education.
If ya think its Indian teachers can be awful, you really should see how despicable Indian education administrators can be. They are the ones who allow teachers to physically and mentally punish the students. - veggiemoore, on 05/04/2009, -0/+7I just got back from four months teaching in Ghana. It totally challenged me on the issue of corporal punishment. It's fine for us to condemn it at our schools, where there's a solid system of detentions and suspensions and calls home, but when that's not an option, and you have forty kids lacking any kind of discipline, the issue isn't so black and white.
- INDOAZZ, on 05/04/2009, -2/+8India is a corrupt as they come...Sorry folks but I expect nothing to be done.... 1 Billion and still counting after this...RIP Shanno...
- diggopolous, on 05/04/2009, -2/+8Spare me cliches.
- vondrak, on 05/04/2009, -0/+6that doesn't mean hit children with a rod, it refers to a shepard's herding his sheep with a rod. So guide you're children, don't beat them. It's a commonly misused phrase.
- MoneyShot, on 05/04/2009, -2/+8And yet many of the brightest Indians choose to study in the US. Explain that.
- nepidae, on 05/04/2009, -0/+6There is a huge difference between the corporal punishment and killing.
- Gusbob, on 05/04/2009, -1/+6When I was in primary school in South East Asia my teacher used to whip all 50 of us or made us pull our ears and constantly squat and stand if even one of us pissed her off. The parents never minded because they think it builds character. All I can say that if everyone around you thinks its ok, a scared 7 year old like I was then thinks its ok too, it just becomes cyclical and part of the culture.
- vsaint, on 05/04/2009, -2/+7Spare the refrigerator spoil the child
- rpgmakr, on 05/04/2009, -2/+7This used to happen in the schools of my country more than 30 years ago. Is not a sign of corruption more than it is a sign of the teachers doing some of the parents work. Its a sign of the system being more "innocent" and outdated.
I will get dugg down because you can't see it but those are my 50 cents. - inactive, on 05/04/2009, -1/+6I'm going nun punching!
- SteelChicken, on 05/04/2009, -2/+7spoken like someone who has lived a very sheltered life.
snappy "intellectual quotes" often fail when they are first exposed to reality. - victorp, on 05/04/2009, -1/+6Naw he's getting burried by people who think he's too much of a pussy to do it himself
- Gguillorn, on 05/04/2009, -1/+6This is so ***** up. Her last words were "I never want to go to school again." Pretty terrible for the family members. I would be out for blood after something like that.
- scamper22, on 05/04/2009, -1/+5ah memories. I still have a scar on my wrist after being hit with a bamboo rod.
this was in south africa though... thanks to apartheid, the school was pretty much all indian with all the wonderful whippings included.
That said, I have no issues with a little corporal punishment. Little being the key word. Slap on the wrist = no problem. - asgardshill, on 05/04/2009, -0/+4Yes, Indy 4 IS an excellent example of man's inhumanity to man.
- k3rfuffl3, on 05/04/2009, -0/+4I went to school in India for close to a year, and the school I went to was not as bad as this. It really depends on which school you go to. The more rural/poor a school is the more likely they are to use corporal punishment. I never faced corporal punishment, and only the worst kids really did. I also went to school in Zambia, and I faced more frequent corporal punishment for not really doing anything.Our teacher was actually one of the nicer ones. Zambia middle class, at least at the time, was actually more poor than the Indian middle class.
- cnldelta, on 05/04/2009, -1/+5Everyone who witnessed the event would probably be afraid of retaliation/punishment from the school authorities if they said what actually happened.
- inactive, on 05/04/2009, -1/+5When I was a kid, the teachers would hit us (as necessary) and the kids learned to respect the teachers. There was none of this B.S. bringing a knife or gun to school and the parents went even further to discipline the kids. We lost something when they made so many rules AGAINST discipline.
- inactive, on 05/04/2009, -0/+4Both American and Indian schools use the completely ineffective teaching method of rote learning: learning by mindless memorization with no regard for actually understanding anything about the subject.
- tizle, on 05/04/2009, -1/+5Look, the education system in India gets children started at a much younger age. My wife was a teacher in India and when she started teaching children here, she noticed that pre-schools in the United States are basically baby sitting services, and children learn hardly anything. She tried some of her methods from India here and the kids learned a lot in a short time. So it's not like people in India are that much smarter, it's just that children here are not taught as much at a younger age. That said, the kids here are taught more outdoor activities and end up being better sportsman and more independent. How often do you hear of world beating Indian sportsmen?
As far as corporal punishment is concerned, I always had teachers who weren't afraid to smack a student who pushes them too far, and that is fine. Every kid needs an occasional tap, but typically teachers don't beat the crap out of a kid like in this case. This is a rare case and I hope that the teacher is jailed for life. When you read stats about 65% of the kids in India being subjected to corporal punishment, it doesn't mean that they are caned or beaten up till they are blue, it means that the teacher may give them an occasional tap on the knuckles, that is fine as far as I am concerned. Teachers have to teach classes of 40-50 students and sometimes students get unruly. - morningmatters, on 05/04/2009, -0/+4FTA: "Most children in my school are criminal-minded," says Dr. S.C. Sharma, the principal of a government school in South Delhi. "We have caught them stealing fans from classrooms and even the iron grills from the windows. How do you discipline such kids?"
I don't expect school principles to hate his students like this in the US, but then the US does not have the population and poverty which India has either. I think people would need to live a poor and overpopulated nation in order to fully understand just why people behave in certain ways. Corporal punishment may not be that effective, but it's the quickest and easiest way for a single individual to reign over a much larger group of unruly students. Those of us who are living in prosperous nations should feel fortunate that our regular school system (there are still a few schools administering corporal punishment in the US designed for problematic kids) does not need to resort to corporal punishment. - sodade, on 05/04/2009, -0/+3Wow, this really helps explain the communication style of some of the Indians I work with.
- whatit, on 05/04/2009, -1/+4LOL as if the US wasn't a religiously dominated society. The president has to align himself with a church for gods sake.
- inactive, on 05/04/2009, -0/+3I went to a school with corporal punishment too. However, they'd only hit the boys. Us girls had detention.
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