What is Digg?415 Comments
- IbnDigg, on 10/11/2007, -13/+240It really saddens me to admit this, but Saudis (generally) are absolute bastards when it comes to women. They most definitely treat their women barbarically, and not because they have to, or because Islam tells them to, but simply because they can.
And you know what saddens me more? When people try to defend that *****.
And I went to a talk a year in the UK, given by Prince Bandar, and when asked about rights for women, he remarkably explained that the west didn't give women voting rights till about 50 years ago. So you (the west) are not that great yourself. What the hell kinda defence is that for something as barbaric as this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm
Screw you your ***** highness - Liam76, on 10/11/2007, -20/+235What do you htink the country would be like without the house of Saud?
Do you think they would all suddenly be enlightened and treat women as equals?
The terrorists in Saud (they do have attacks there) main complaint is that the govt is too westernized. Saud may or may not fall without US support, but what would rise up would certainly be worse. Can you imagine a mentality of a group that thinks a country like what is described in this article is too western? Would you want them in power?
- sarazen, on 10/11/2007, -9/+200I have a good friend who was married to a Saudi man. While living in the US he would smoke and drink, but when his family came to visit he would pretend that he didn't. On a trip they too to Morocco, she was afraid to visit Saudi, he drugged her and stole back to Saudi with their 2 year old still nuring son. She came back to the US alone, was felt up by airline security because her breast were rock hard with milk, and predictably gotten only platitudes from the Saudi government about the possibility of even seeing her son. She can't even travel into the country without her husbands permission. There really is no hope for her seeing her son until maybe when he grows up and can leave on his own. I think this reporter is just glossing the tip of the iceberg on how bad it can be there for women.
- b1111, on 10/11/2007, -65/+143Don't forget which country keeps the House of Saud in power. The US loves to 'free' people in the middle east.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -21/+96Great find.
- rosefu, on 10/11/2007, -4/+63Every country that keeps their women submissive falls behind economically, especially as women become an important part of the workforce in modern countries.
They are not doing a service to themselves. - gallixsee, on 10/11/2007, -6/+64wow. This is a candid view into the female perspective in Saudi Arabia. I have spent time with many Saudi-Americans and was under the impression that women were a bit more liberated than this. Thanks for getting this one out there. It's important.
- IbnDigg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+58@jensg
Your absolutely right. Education is the solution here. And this is what puzzles me.
Islam places a great deal of emphasis on education, yet these repressive wankers choose not to implement such ruling but prefer chopping hands, stoning, beard length, how long your trousers should be and how many wives you can have!!
The Saud rule can only be sustained with the help of these extremists and so it chooses to keep them, as without their dodgy religious rulings their rule is actually illegal (Islam does not allow Monarchies). They are just playing this balancing game, enough extremists to keep them in power, and just enough terrorists so as not to piss of the west. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -21/+77I don't realize that at all. What I realize is that Sharia is evil, and that you're a bigotted moron.
- GawtMilk, on 10/11/2007, -20/+71I'm sorry, but I don't think I've ever seen a Christian wearing a veil, nor have I seen Christian men-only cafes, nor have I seen a hotel manager think a women was a prostitute because she was checking in alone. Speaking from the view of a Christian, you're being just as ignorant as you percieve us to be. The large majority of Christians aren't anything like they're made out to be on Digg. We don't want to go around enslaving women.
- StrangeFamous, on 10/11/2007, -5/+54The most alarming thing about this article is just how much US companies actually endorse the Sharia. It cuts through all the marketing and PR ***** to show EXACTLY what it is that companies value: money above all else. It's sad and depressing to think that, in effect, we're helping reinforce inequality, exploitation and the subjugation of women for no other reason than to increase profits.
I know that it sounds xenophobic of me, but I truly believe that the Sharia is the refuge of weak-minded men who won't take the time to exercise self-control. It's so much easier to say that "without the shrouds, women would be beaten, raped and killed" for displaying their "undeniably provocative" bodies of sin. The truth is that these men are using their religion as a crutch, to allow themselves to brutalize the very women who give them life, support their families and raise their children, all without fear of retribution because it's part of their belief system. It's so ingrained in their society that some women have gotten used to it, and would even go so far as to call it "liberating" because they don't have to worry about making a living or being safe when they've got a man to take care of them.
I know that this isn't a universal truth about Islam... there are plenty of people who live happily under these types of circumstances. However, in this case it's been taken way too far, to the point where the slightest dissenting opinion is met with immediate harsh hostility, and the power of the mob trumps any individual's beliefs. It's evidence of what happens when an entire population allows interpretations of religious doctrine to dictate exactly how they should live, without taking the time to really consider the reasons BEHIND all the edicts they must obey. To have blind, unquestioning faith is to surrender one's own mind.
I also understand that it's because these people were born into this kind of society, so they simply don't know any differently. The men have too much to lose by resisting the traditions (resulting in being outcast or killed), and the women have no voice or power to advocate for themselves. Thus, the horrible trends continue.
I can only hope that the US never falls so deeply out of touch with how far we've come as a nation. Compared to most places in the world, we're the epitomy of a free state. Unfortunately, this has been less and less the case as the years have gone by, and more of us have submitted our wills to the desires of those in power. Thankfully, we still have our rights (most of them) and the power to create change. It's all up to the individual to start something. - ubuntuedgy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+50I was in Saudi during the first gulf war. I remember riding in the back of a hummer down one of the highways and a car approaching us from behind very quickly (they drive like maniacs out on the desert roads). When the car got close we saw a guy driving and a woman in the passenger seat (we thought this odd because most times women are in the back seat...or in the back of the truck with the camel (I swear it...I've seen it!)) Anyways, we were all looking out the back of the hummer and the woman lifted her head to look at us (she had her head down). As soon as she lifted her head the guy saw her and backhanded her. For looking up at us! He then passed us and sped away.
Saudi Arabia is a very different reality than what we know in western societies. - NateB2, on 10/11/2007, -13/+57I think you have Christianity switched with some other religion. In the first few centuries, Christians pushed for more women's rights than were enacted in Rome. Romans viewed women as objects; the Christians viewed women as equals. In Galatians, Paul says this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, but you are all one in Christ Jesus." This was highly contrary to the prevailing opinion about women in those times.
Also, nowhere in the Bible will you find a mandate for setting up religious police. Christianity is about changing people from the inside, not from exterior conformation to a set of rules. Anyone who says otherwise has not studied it. - Liam76, on 10/11/2007, -4/+47Expulsion for view point is very common.
Universities are far from bastions of free thought. - gedden, on 10/11/2007, -3/+41You are really saying that the incidences of rape are lower?!? how bout reports of rape.
We do have a lower rate of being stoned to death although. oh and we don't throw acid on the faces of our ladies. - EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -2/+38NateB2 wrote: "In the Bible, I can't find a single section that advocates the suppression of women's rights that applies for all time."
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
- Colossians 3:18
[Women] are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
- I Corinthians 14:34
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the
head of the woman is the man... - 1 Corinthians 11:3
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the
damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's
house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die...
- Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto
them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith
the law.
- 1 Corinthians 14:34
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a
woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
- 1 Timothy 2:11-12
Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands, as unto the Lord. For the
husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the
church...
- Ephesians 5:22-23
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array...
- Timothy 2:9
...but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair;
- 1 Corinthians 11:4-7
When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies...and seeth among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; then thou shalt bring her home to thine house...and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and remain in thine house . . . And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will
- Deuteronomy 20:16-17 - GawtMilk, on 10/11/2007, -3/+38There was a great political cartoon, about a woman stopped on the street while running to catch a bus. Two police officers said, "excuse me, but your clothing is too tight". The woman replied, "stop looking at my boobs then". That's how I feel about Sharia law. It's the perversions of men that's the problem, not the actions of a woman. It's cowardly to blame it on women that they're attractive.
- Egoist, on 10/11/2007, -5/+38@b1111: I hate to break it to you -- the US is not the source of all of the world's ills. Take off your blinders and see the whole world, not just what you want to see.
- HuntingHawk, on 10/11/2007, -4/+31When I was young, I lived in Saudi Arabia for 6 years. So I have first hand experience of Saudis and Saudi Arabia, and let me tell you it's one of the worst place I've ever lived in.
My mom had to wear a veil, even though she was a Catholic and couldn't drive anywhere so had to get my dad to Chauffeur her around. Even when we used to go shopping, the Saudis used to close all their shops 5 times a day for prayers and you couldn't buy anything when they did that. Truly one of the most retarded people on the planet. Even the Iranians look sane compared to this idiots.
The only place that could possibly match this hellhole would be Pakistan. - Varney, on 10/11/2007, -43/+69And if the American Taliban evangelicals had their way, the U.S. would be more like this... religious police and all.
Why can't we as a society shrug these barbarous religious attitudes from public life for good? - Gryffydd, on 10/11/2007, -9/+35@IbnDigg
"Your absolutely right. Education is the solution here."
Oh the irony, it hurts us! - froglars, on 10/11/2007, -3/+29There aren't fewer rapes, there are fewer *REPORTED* rapes, due to the stigma associated with it. See:
http://www.paralumun.com/issuessaudiarabia.htm
http://www.rooz0nline.com/11english/011640.shtml
http://wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=Human_trafficking_in_Saudi_Arabia - BoneheadFarker, on 10/11/2007, -12/+37To anyone that says evangelicals wouldn't turn like this if they had their own way...visit any true Pentacostal church. I don't know about the Southern Baptists, but I know the Pentacostals have close to the same mentality. They just don't go to the same extremes because society in general looks down on it. But there is a definate separation of the sexes. Women aren't allowed to cut their hair or wear any clothes that are deemed for men (pants, etc.), men must keep their hair short and be as masculine-looking as possible. Woman also cannot wear make-up or do anything to make themselves attract, else they are considered a whore. Women must only do "woman's work" (sewing, cooking, cleaning house, raise children), and the only reason any of them work for money is because it's difficult living in a one-salary house. Men can hug men, and women can hug women, but men and women must only shake hands. Women *must* obey the word of a man. Anytime abuse does happen, excuses are made (she made him angry by not obeying him, so she deserved it). And they'll all tell you that they are happy this way. Believe me...if the evangelicals had their way, it would be as bad as Saudi Arabia...
- xmuzik, on 10/11/2007, -1/+24I love how starbucks condones the mistreatment of women in order to sell a cup of joe
- Liam76, on 10/11/2007, -4/+27Would you say the same to a slave who was working on a plantation in the US 150 years ago?
If you accept something because it is all you know and what you are brought up with does it make it right? - Veritate, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23Umm, I consider it a credit to the women that they're attractive. How a male-centric society got the idea that all women should be covered is pretty much beyond me. If I were going to mandate a uniform for females, I think "Burka" would be against pretty much every single consideration I'd have.
- brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -5/+24@therealhustler
I'm curious, do you also think all christians burn crosses? Do they all lynch black people?
There are different branches of any given religion. Just because the bad parts are the ones in the news doesn't mean that's all there is.
Your comments are similar to something Borat would say about jews. - lorean, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19Never believe you have to respect other cultures.
Learn about them, so you can act like a mature individual who knows the consequences of their actions. - caution, on 10/11/2007, -18/+36you are so way off base comparing the american evangelicals to these islamic morons -- while they are both idiots, one doesn't openly beat women for not covering their face in public (see Iran)
this isn't about america or christians, this is about the nearly complicit blind-eye the west has to women's plight in islamic countries - cr4ft, on 10/11/2007, -12/+29As a Muslim I'm embarassed at the Saudi laws with regards to women.
I'm even more disgusted at the right-wing fanatics who look at this and say "see! see! This is Islam!" - emildew, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19asdfasdf: "Believe it or not, women there WANT to cover themselves, and they see nothing wrong with males being dominant, nor segregated. It's part of their religion and culture. What gives US the right to impose our ethics and opinions on them?"
You know, you're so right. If they are so ignorant as to not know any better, they don't deserve to have rights. How's that argument working for slavery, you ***** bigot?
"They WANT to be oppressed" is one of the stupidest arguments for oppression. - rlh1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+18Remember when the Saudi Islamic religious police force those teenage girls back into their burning dormitory because they were not properly dressed. The firemen might have seen them in their nightgowns. 15 of them burned to death.
They were forced back in by ---> "Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice"
I guess that's extreme Islam for you. - tenrec, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16Saudi TV broadcasts their executions, which are beheadings.
- BoneheadFarker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17@EtherGnat
Don't forget the rules regarding rape.
Deuteronomy 22:22
If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Deuteronomy was a particularly nasty book... - Veritate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16you misspelled "hole" as "pants"
- catalysis, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19I don't understand why people bring up womens' sufferage in this discussion. Even before women had the right to vote, it was nothing like Saudi society.
- johnn11238, on 10/11/2007, -15/+31@mikelieman
Your foriegn policy stance is intriguing...
Let me get this straight:
We should wipe out any government that we percieve as a threat to us, leave the country in ruins, and ALL THE PEOPLE IN THAT COUNTRY will no longer be a threat?
How about all those pesky terrorists? How do we find their capitol? The head of their government? Who is their president? Golly, if we could figure that out, that would be sweet. We could sic the MARINES on them. - futureb, on 10/11/2007, -6/+22relations are so messed up btw men and women over there, that i've read saudi arabia is a gay man's paradise. sort of like the prison syndrome. apparently it's acceptable in some circles for a man to have relations with other men (as long as he's not the bottom), so much so that if you're a young man walking alone in saudi cities you will get propositioned fairly regularly.
check out an article in the atlantic monthly on this issue. full article not available unless you're a subscriber....
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200705/gay-saudi-arabia - brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16@rosefu
Saudi Arabia made it big via their huge oil reserves. They now are home to massive construction firms and the wealthy in the country have over an estimated trillion dollars invested in US interests. So while I agree that effectively disabling half your work force, half your brain power, etc is economically (and of course socially) counter productive it would be a VERY long time before the impact was apparent. - imants, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17How about what it's really like to be a woman, period?
That'd be interesting, too. - hasslinthehoff, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17This is what happens when you have no separation of church and state. Thank God for the U.S. Constitution!
- TomRitchford, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15I was recently in Turkey, a country which is predominantly Muslim, but legally secular. It was fascinating to see how tolerant and modern the place is -- you see women in burkhas, women in hijabs, and women with bare midriffs all intermixing, and no one bats an eye.
What's interesting is that there seem to be more affectionate couples in the streets than, say, in New York (though it might have been the fact that it was spring) -- and many of them were in traditional garb. - hmmmok, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16You try and chain Barb Bush to a kitchen sink. She'd whip your whiney ass !!
- digibruce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14Apartheid systems like the Saud will eventually fail because they can't compete with societies that fully leverage all individuals. Starbucks shops with two entrances are inefficient, driving women everywhere is inefficient. Having women do double-duty in the workforce and at home (like in the U.S.) is efficient. The U.S. won WW2 because of Rosie the Riveter - the wave of the women's movement that broke in the '60s was partly fueled by that. No culture that restricts half its population will succeed in the long run. It's just a matter of time before these systems fall.
- BoneheadFarker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15@Dragon88
It's hard to count the statistics of rape in a country that doesn't see certain acts as rape. If no one believes you were raped (you were asking for it, it wasn't rape; you're lying, you're just trying to get a man in trouble; etc), or they perform an honour killing to rid their family of disgrace you because you were raped, then it doesn't count. I'd say it happens more because there is very little if any punishment for a man that commits it... - Rooster99, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14@Dragon88
Im not having a go at you or anything, but I think (as in i don't have much evidence to back me up) the reason why rape is so low is because what constitutes 'rape' in western culture is probably completely different to 'rape' in Saudi Arabia. For instance, judging by that article it would be fair to assume that a wife cannot press any sort of rape charges against her husband, no matter what the circumstances.
Also, as an interesting side note, does anyone remember the story a while back that was about an Iranian girl who was raped, and was then sentenced to execution or something because she wasent married? I might be wrong with the details but there are numerous cases in which the rape victim was punished as opposed to the attacker.
Also it might have something to do with the fact that a women in Saudi Arabia is rarely un-escorted by her male 'minder'. Im not advocating this in any way, shape or form, but Ill bet the rape stats will drop significantly if all women in western culture were forced to be escorted by a male minder while out of the house. - StrangeFamous, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15I don't know if that was meant to be sarcastic or not....
If she had stayed home, we never would have read this article. - silverchrysalis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14i just LOVE long rants with random CAPITALIzATION, don't YOU?
- rlh1, on 10/11/2007, -5/+18Nazis had their own culture on how they treated Jews, were were so wrong to criticize their ways and beliefs.....
- felchdonkey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Any movement to admit that non-Muslims are human beings with equal rights?
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