What is Digg?650 Comments
- Napoleone, on 12/12/2007, -58/+272We lost the moral high-ground in less than 35 seconds. Quite impressive.
- Hellman109, on 12/12/2007, -37/+160And wheres the proof that what he said had any value?
Tourture me and Im going to say something, what that is doesnt matter.
"Where is Osama?"
"Not telling!"
*tourture*
"OK OK, stop, hes really George W Bush, hes just in disguise!"
"Lets get him!" - theNazz, on 12/12/2007, -28/+122It's amazing how quickly people confess to war crimes when they know the government and courts support their actions.
- kooft, on 12/12/2007, -14/+90So the Vietnamese torturing John McCain wasn't a bad thing then. It was morally proper and may have saved countless lives. I'll never feel a pang of sorrow for what he went through again...
- inactive, on 12/12/2007, -20/+88Waterboarding is torture, period. How can we denounce the actions of others that engage in torture as inhumane and evil when we are selves do the same?
There isn't even any proof that it's any more effective than standard interrogation techniques. To this day not one bit of information has been released to the public regarding an attack that torture may have prevented.
The ends NEVER justify the means. - inactive, on 12/12/2007, -39/+97I bet if they'd beaten his child in front of him it would have been quicker.
I guess the right wing ***** will be cheering this confirmation that being evil gets results.
So now how will the right wingers rationalize being evil to sooth their cowardice? - Groovemaster, on 12/12/2007, -23/+79"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." -- Oscar Wilde.
Looks like America returned to barbarism... - sicamore, on 12/12/2007, -19/+73This is great! we can start using these on all other crimes now, imagine all the time and money we can save on all that legal smegal stuff like due process.
I'm disgusted people are standing up for this. - ConAmoreEFuoco, on 12/12/2007, -9/+58They didn't even have to torture him to get him to admit to war crimes!
- raymondmarble, on 12/12/2007, -10/+50Torture does indeed get people to speak. Of course, it gets the subjects to say what they think the torturers want to hear to end the torture, rather than the truth. But why let the truthfulness of the results stand in the way of a good old fashioned torture, eh?
- DesertDude, on 12/12/2007, -13/+46I'm sure US torture is moral and could "save" lives. Just like Nazi and Fascist Italian torture saved the lives of good German and Italian citizens. Torture is always immoral when *someone else* does it.
- DesertDude, on 12/12/2007, -12/+43So if an American is caught in Iraq/Afghanistan/Somalia/Israel/etc., that means it's ok to waterboard him/her. Gotcha, John.
- kooft, on 12/12/2007, -9/+40That's the irony, the CIA destroyed the proof just recently. So now they can claim torture saves lives, but they can never back it up.
- wishninja, on 12/12/2007, -21/+48Wow great! So effective now coming to a police department near you. We do a host of morally unconscionable things to people in our own cities as it is. I know the cops are just itching to try this. Effective as the tasers are.
- robberry, on 12/12/2007, -9/+36"We lost the moral high-ground in less than 35 seconds."
While simultaneously creating dozens, perhaps hundreds, of new terrorists in the process. These enhanced interrogation techniques are amazing. - chris9902, on 12/12/2007, -17/+43"got him to talk in less than 35 seconds"
and what did he say that was of any value? He just said what they wanted him to say. That's not success that's torture. - bulkhater, on 12/12/2007, -5/+29Bawk and dyranios2
Actually, there are "Mind game" techniques pioneered by the NAZIs interrogating captured American and British pilots that yielded much better results. The prisoners never even realized they were giving up vital information! The US was so impressed that the CIA had some of it's interrogation manuals written by captured NAZIs.
Torture is a piss-poor way to get reliable information. Sadly, the best methods require intelligent and trained interrogators. Ham fisted morons resort to torture because movies and TV tell them it works, even though it doesn't. - Mononuclear, on 12/12/2007, -3/+25The end justifies the means right? We might as well start doing scientific experiments on people too because then we might make advances in medicine. It's evil but hey it works!!
- Daedalus81, on 12/12/2007, -2/+21There was a good documentarty on this History channel about this. I remember one part where a German officer and an American pilot were taking a friendly stroll in a park. The officer asked why the pilots used red tracers and the pilot willingly gave the information up as if it were a casual conversation.
- seandaly, on 12/12/2007, -5/+22Waterboarding isn't "simulated drowning"... They actually pour water up your nose and down your throat through a cloth or towel! That IS drowning someone. The only difference is that the torturers stop before enough water collects in the lungs and prevents respiration, where the individual loses consciousness.
- Nougat, on 12/12/2007, -4/+21Correct. It is one of the things that should make us distinct from our enemies.
- davewashere, on 12/12/2007, -11/+28If it's such a good technique, why aren't they considering waterboarding for domestic interrogations of suspected criminals? I think deep down everyone knows this is torture, but some people condone it because the suspected criminals are not American.
- DreKor, on 12/12/2007, -2/+19I think most people would be willing to give the "CIA agents/government" credit when they do something good. And, by that same token, are willing to criticize them when they do something bad. After all, they're supposed to work for us, the American citizens. And, seeing as they work for us, their quality of work and "whether they are doing a good enough job" is very important and relevant. When you're playing with people's lives, you don't get points for effort.
- CheezIt9109, on 12/12/2007, -4/+19I sincerely hope America comes to its senses, and tries all responsible for war crimes, from those performing the actions to the very top level administrators who authorized the use of this method. It's a ***** disgrace.
- Waiting2awake, on 12/12/2007, -2/+17 Iraq/ Afghanistan/ Somalia/ Israel/ Detroit/ New York/ Cali / etc/etc/etc
- anarchytv, on 12/12/2007, -5/+20A federal anti-torture statute (18 U.S.C. § 2340A), enacted in 1994, provides for the prosecution of a U.S. national or anyone present in the United States who, while outside the U.S., commits or attempts to commit torture. Torture is defined as an “act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control.” A person found guilty under the act can be incarcerated for up to 20 years or receive the death penalty if the torture results in the victim’s death. No exemptions for CIA. http://www.capdefnet.org/fdprc/contents/fed_cap_of ...
- bulkhater, on 12/12/2007, -8/+23Actually, there are "Mind game" techniques pioneered by the NAZIs interrogating captured American and British pilots that yielded much better results. The prisoners never even realized they were giving up vital information! The US was so impressed that the CIA had some of it's interrogation manuals written by captured NAZIs.
Torture is a piss-poor way to get reliable information. Sadly, the best methods require intelligent and trained interrogators. Ham fisted morons resort to torture because movies and TV tell them it works, even though it doesn't. - Hickeroar, on 12/12/2007, -3/+17Except this guy didn't do any of it. This is a prime example of a half-article. The guy reported on it later but didn't have anything to do with the waterboarding. He has also stated that he DOES view it as torture. This was all over MSNBC a couple days ago.
- m0tbaillie, on 12/12/2007, -0/+14For as much as a douche as McCain is, he's still a very ballsy man. He can no longer raise his arms above his head and was beaten so badly on several occasions that he almost ***** died. Oh did I mention he was a POW for 6, almost 7 years?
- jamesiv, on 12/12/2007, -23/+37Disgusting to be an American. HOW the F can we say we are a free and democratic country when we TORTURE people! Yes We the USA TORTURE people! And it is openly debated and the media and white house spin it like we need to do this. We must stop all uses of torture NOW! What amazes me more then anything is all the super right wing so called "Christians" that support this crap. Maybe it is time for a history lesson. Christian comes from Christ as in Jesus Christ. If you study this man and try to live as he did which is the true form of being a "Christian" you might remember the forgive and not turn to violence themes? How can you call yourselves people of God or Christ if you support and allow fellow humans to be treated in such EVIL ways? WAKE THE F UP and SNAP out of this brainwash. You know deep down what is right and wrong so stand up for it. Stop letting a sadistic white house and congress tell you what is right and wrong and then cover their actions saying they are men of GOD. I think anyone who has to continue to say they are "men of god" may have an issue. How about walking the path instead of preaching it!! Amen to my self!
- inactive, on 12/12/2007, -7/+20Osama tried to surrender twice but your government refused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvVZ2Gn-9g
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article16 ... - xTRUMANx, on 12/12/2007, -7/+20Nope. High ground is still up for grabs.
- Daedalus81, on 12/12/2007, -3/+15We shoot people instead of banning them for stupid comments. Its evil, but it works.
- sotjian, on 12/12/2007, -7/+19I'm curious to what will happen when an American soldier is captured and a video tape of his water boarding is streamed. Just Al Qaeda doing what the USA says is Ok to do to prisoners.
- natedouglas, on 12/12/2007, -4/+16Not just suspected criminals: think schoolchildren. When I was in the fourth grade, a girl took my worksheet out of the tray, erased my name, and wrote hers on it. She wouldn't admit to it, even when the teacher called her out about it. A little waterboarding would've cleared that ***** up in a jiffy.
- robberry, on 12/12/2007, -2/+14"Proto-"?
- EarlOfLade, on 12/12/2007, -4/+16A country whos safety depends on torture of prisoners does not deserve any safety!
- inactive, on 12/12/2007, -13/+24It doesn't ***** matter, torture should never be allowed to be used by anybody ever. No matter what.
- moxley, on 12/12/2007, -6/+17Actually it doesn't work.
This is public relations *****.
We know that people who are being tortured are going to say whatever they can to get the torture to stop; it is not reliable, period.
Anybody who tells you otherwise is either lying or doesn't know what they're talking about.
Even if it did work, it doesn't mean it's right. You cannot use "the end justifies the means" logic when it comes to politics and humanity.
You can't, and here is why: We all know that the earth is overpopulated; we know that if there were only 1 billion people on the earth things would be much better for everyone - so should we kill, starve, eliminate by disease a large portion of the world population? It would be good for the earth and good for the survivors..But not very good for those who have been thinned out. A lot of people feel we should, and that there have been covert programs in place for a long time to do this sort thing - but I think if you ask most people they would say "no, the end does not justify the means." - turbopro, on 12/12/2007, -8/+19Not to play devils advocate, but here come the digg downs.
They say it made him talk in 35 seconds. The real question is was the intelligence provided legit? Was it solid? But one has to ask what would you do in the same situation. If it meant finding some incredible intelligence, something that could provide a means to save lives, what would you do? Would you have the audacity to waterboard, even worse yet, threaten to hurt his children in front of his face? To sit down and think about this for some time is what can make you realize what you're made of, in every aspect of being evil or being good, or in some pyschological way, a means to be both. Are you the one that can provide the evil neccesity so that good men and women can sleep restfully at night? This is where I think I would be dugg down because yes, I think I can considering the circumstance that citizens of my country can be saved if it meant I had to hurt my enemy in some form of interrogation. To me to most difficult part is to make sure that the one you are interogating is indeed, the one with the intelligence. I think pain and violence is always the last resort. The old school way of interrogation involved steak dinners, chocolates, and many other luxuries. - nblsavage, on 12/12/2007, -2/+13Therein lies the trap of that way of thinking. "we will just use it on suspected terrorists", "we will just use it on domestic criminals...if lives are in the balance","we will just use it to get a confession".
Thanks for pointing out the "slippery slope" argument so well Bohica. - Focher, on 12/12/2007, -3/+13One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And before some moron takes that out of context, it does not mean I condone or support the killing of anyone.
- Nougat, on 12/12/2007, -4/+14Moral relativism FTL.
- RabidAngel, on 12/12/2007, -2/+11As a matter of fact, I DO work daily to protect my country. That doesn't give me any more right to criticize the CIA than a citizen who is currently unemployed. The CIA's actions in this case reflect very poorly on America. The CIA - like all government - is supposed to work for the citizens, despite the fact that almost everyone has forgotten that. Job critique is therefore to be expected and deserved. Sorry but your opinion on the subject is completely without merit.
- halavais, on 12/12/2007, -4/+13"Necessary"? Are you nuts?
We sought the unibomber for years in the US. Would you have supported torturing US citizens if they were *suspected* of knowing his whereabouts?
This is not just a slippery slope, it is an indictment of a nation of people who have thrown aside any kind of moral rudder. People ask how the populace could have stood by while the Germans and Japanese committed atrocious acts against their fellow man. That question is pretty moot these days, when a substantial number of Americans are willing to justify empowering our government to torture people.
What. The. *****. - ChaosMotor, on 12/12/2007, -5/+14That's a false dilemma, and you're not Jack Bauer.
- spinchange, on 12/12/2007, -5/+14I like how ABC and this CIA Agent left that part out.
"The guy is insane, certifiable, split personality," [Dan] Coleman told a top official at FBI after a few days reviewing the Zubaydah haul....There was almost nothing "operational" in his portfolio. That was handled by the management team. He wasn't one of them...."He was like a travel agent, the guy who booked your flights....He was expendable, you know, the greeter....Joe Louis in the lobby of Caesar's Palace, shaking hands."
....According to CIA sources, he was water-boarded....He was beaten....He was repeatedly threatened....His medication was withheld. He was bombarded with deafening, continuous noise and harsh lights.
....Under this duress, Zubaydah told them that shopping malls were targeted by al Qaeda....Zubaydah said banks — yes, banks — were a priority....And also supermarkets — al Qaeda was planning to blow up crowded supermarkets, several at one time. People would stop shopping. The nation's economy would be crippled. And the water system — a target, too. Nuclear plants, naturally. And apartment buildings.
Thousands of uniformed men and women raced in a panic to each flavor of target. Of course, if you multiplied by ten, there still wouldn't be enough public servants in America to surround and secure the supermarkets. Or the banks. But they tried.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individu ... - Rahodeb, on 12/12/2007, -3/+12ElAssoWipo, find me one country at war that didn't commit atrocities and I might begin to believe that it's just an American thing, and not a human thing. Do I think we've done horrible things in the name of national security? yes. Do I think that we have been worse than all of the others? Not even close.
This doesn't excuse it, just putting it in perspective. America isn't the all-holy pinnacle of human greatness that it was once touted to be, but it's still better treatment than you'd get just about anywhere else as an enemy combatant. - funkytaco, on 12/12/2007, -3/+12OK, so who is LYING here??
From Time.com:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1 ...
QUOTE:
Posner elaborates in startling detail how U.S. interrogators used drugs—an unnamed "quick-on, quick-off" painkiller and Sodium Pentothal, the old movie truth serum—in a chemical version of reward and punishment to make Zubaydah talk. When questioning stalled, according to Posner, cia men flew Zubaydah to an Afghan complex fitted out as a fake Saudi jail chamber, where "two Arab-Americans, now with Special Forces," pretending to be Saudi inquisitors, used drugs and threats to scare him into more confessions.
Where do these 35 seconds worth of torture fit into this story? - therealkdog, on 12/12/2007, -13/+22I would confess to raping babies 35 seconds into torture.
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