What is Digg?272 Comments
- whitecracker, on 07/02/2008, -14/+241Torture is the "anguish of body or mind." As Hitchens says, "if this isn't torture, what is"? It needn't cause physical injury or be actually deadly to be torture. The clear mental anguish effectuated by this practice SHOWS why waterboarding fits that bill. And, please, don't respond by saying "but it's effective!" No one ever said Torture wasn't effective, they said it was immoral. If torture wasn't effective, YOU WOULDN'T NEED THE GENEVA CONVENTION.
The irony is the fundy right-wing "Christians" are the first to abandon their principles and advocate torture. Well open your Bible, thumpers, and turn to the parable of Paul. Paul was a good man and acolyte of Jesus yet, when things got bad, what did he do? Abandoned Jesus (his principles and beliefs) because he feared pain (the fate of Jesus). Jesus forgave him of course but the point is principles are tough to abide by; particularly tough when times are hard. Nevertheless the whole of morality is premised on how you act when things are hard. To be Christlike means one thing and one thing only: you put your morals first. Before expediency. Before revenge. Before fear. As FDR said -- prophetically -- "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Exactly.
That's the worst part about this backassed "war on terror" Bush has waged. Terror is, by definition, toothless. A terrorist's only power is just that: his ability to inflict terror. And once people are terrified, they run around and do stupid ***** like violate the Geneva Convention and enter into pointless wars that bankrupt the Country. Terrorists are only as powerful as your fear permits them to be. If you aren't scared, they have no power. If they had a gun or a nuke or could actually harm our Country you wouldn't call them terrorists, you'd call them an ARMY. Sure the terrorists can inflict a 9/11 every once in a while but they don't have the firepower to actually harm America. So they turn to their REAL "weapon of mass destruction" -- FEAR.
What they are counting on is that ***** like BlueStater -- THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL US!!! -- are dumb enough to think we can kill our way to security. No amount of torture or fear of reprisal can scare a man (or woman) willing to strap dynamite to his chest and ignite if off in a crowded plaza. And if your goal is to fight everyone who wants to kill us then you better strap on the flak jacket son because we got about half a planet to kill. As Jesus said, "those who live by the sword die by the sword."
Are you calling Jesus a liar?
In short, what makes America unique is not it's ability to wage war, it's its ability to put their ideals and principles first. There've been a million other States and Countries and City-States in history; America is different for the principles outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights: Freedom. Openness. Inclusion. Democracy. Morality. Respect. Laws. We abandon those principles and American ceases to be America.
Like Maximus said in Gladiator "Rome is only a dream." So is America. And I'm sick of timid ***** like "BlueStater" and YellowBellyBush who are intent on turning that dream into a nightmare.
***** em. - sobpanic, on 07/02/2008, -5/+155Love the thumbnail
- rewinn, on 07/02/2008, -8/+118You're simply wrong.
As John McCain will tell you, under torture you'll confess to anything. Waterboarding is useful for extracting confessions; whether or not the confessions have any truth in them is beside the point.
P.S. we're the GOOD GUYS. Remember? - siszam, on 07/02/2008, -10/+95Terrorists want to kill us? The terrorist in the White House has killed more of our sons and daughters than any terror attack did.
- Suneet67, on 07/02/2008, -14/+89Christopher Hitchens admitting Waterboarding is torture??? Whats next, a black president?
- sobpanic, on 07/02/2008, -8/+77Shut up.
- alapoet, on 07/02/2008, -2/+70Any interrogation expert worth his or her salt will tell you that "confessions" and "information" extracted for torturing is notoriously unreliable to the point of being worthless.
Beyond that, torturing people is WRONG. Period. - pilobilus, on 07/03/2008, -4/+59McCane does not oppose torture. The moment it became a political liability to continue pushing for laws against torture, he voted AGAINST a torture ban, proving his former stance was only a publicity stunt to capitalize on his "ex POW" status. McCane is a war pig who openly advocates for the murder and mutilation of women, children, and the elderly, in the name of stomping down on some "insurgency" or "rogue State" that stands between his masters and a few billion fast bucks. McCane's character and personal values do not enter into this - he has a job to do and he is deadly determined to carry it out.
- Lionhart, on 07/03/2008, -0/+46Correct. Torture is not effective for the simple fact that someone being tortured will say whatever they have to to get you to stop, whether its true or not.
- codemonkeysteve, on 07/02/2008, -7/+50"No one ever said Torture wasn't effective"
Torture isn't effective. - blackmesa, on 07/03/2008, -0/+41As an outside observer, I find that when it comes to torture and human rights abuses, the degree of doublethink in the US is alarming. How can any rational person claim this isn't torture?? It was obvious from the outset. It should never have gone even this far. The sad thing is that I doubt anyone (who, through action or inaction was responsible) will face a courtroom. I mean, it would go pretty much all the way to the top. Justice will likely never be served. :(
- wariner, on 07/03/2008, -5/+45America, the good guys? Maybe in WW2. Not now.
- NickMilne, on 07/02/2008, -7/+41"The irony is the fundy right-wing 'Christians' are the first to abandon their principles and advocate torture. Well open your Bible, thumpers, and turn to the parable of Paul. Paul was a good man and acolyte of Jesus yet, when things got bad, what did he do? Abandoned Jesus (his principles and beliefs) because he feared pain (the fate of Jesus). Jesus forgave him of course but the point is principles are tough to abide by; particularly tough when times are hard."
You mean Peter, not Paul. And neither of their exploits were related in "parables." Parables, in the New Testament sense, are small illustrative fables told (typically) by Jesus to make some broader point. Peter, although often one towards whom parables were directed, was not himself the subject of any.
If you mean "general story of Peter" rather than "parable of Paul," just say so. If you don't really know anything about it apart from the fact that *someone* betrayed Jesus at a crucial moment only to bounce back later, just say "the part about that guy that etc." Don't try to spice it up with specifics if you don't know them. It's like describing the Kingdom of Heaven as a series of tubes.
If you're trying to demonstrate that you know more about the Bible than the people you're attacking, probably the worst way to go about it is to start from a platform of naked ignorance. "Parable" is a word with a particular meaning and the difference between Peter and Paul is both non-trivial and easily checked.
The rest of your comment is fair enough (I dugg it up, even), but this part needed to be better. - inactive, on 07/02/2008, -3/+36Bluestater
It looks like you need to waterboarded just like Hitchens I bet you too would change your tune really quick. - TheGroje, on 07/03/2008, -0/+33"It goes without saying that I knew I could stop the process at any time,"
If only torture always came with a safeword... - ZenMojo, on 07/03/2008, -1/+29Fox News correspondent gets waterboarded:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/11/04/video-steve- ...
My favorite part is when he goes to Part Three and says, "Oh, this isn't that bad." LESS than two seconds later, he's freaking out. Then when he's safe in the studio he talks about how easily you can recover from it.
What a douche. - ZenMojo, on 07/02/2008, -7/+34Sadly, it took Christopher Hitchens this long to figure it out. Crap, let's just waterboard the entire country, then we can make a judgment on it.
- TheModernArdeo, on 07/03/2008, -8/+33Yes.
- the6thReplicant, on 07/03/2008, -3/+26>> Come on people, GROW UP, and quit siding with the terrorists.
By simplifying everything about your opponents you have became the childish one. To think for a moment that the large majority of the people on digg want the terrorists to win (the direct result of sympathizing with them) is insane.
If you take criticism of your point of view to equate the criticizers' view being the "opposite" of yours is childish. - inactive, on 07/03/2008, -1/+24The funny thing is, when these chicken hawks get this done, they're getting like... a quarter of the real treatment while knowing they can quit at any time.
- Lionhart, on 07/03/2008, -0/+23Actually torture isn't effective. If you're torturing someone they will tell you whatever you want to hear for you to stop.
- naios, on 07/03/2008, -0/+21Depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
- Bilabrin, on 07/03/2008, -1/+22"For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?" ~ Mark 8:36
The point being that America has set a higher standard of conduct....until recently.
They can kill us all day but they can never destroy the constitution or the american dream, or our values, only we can do that. There will never be enough laws and measures to make life completely safe. There is, however, enough fear to bring us into a police state in the name of security. Thats how the terrorists REALLY win. That's how we dishonor those who fought and died, the 30,000 who fought and died in the revolutionary war and the war of 1812.
Just think about it. - NickMilne, on 07/02/2008, -0/+21In case the Vanity Fair link is still lagging (it was a bit earlier), here's a mirror of the video of him being waterboarded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
- Yamoth, on 07/03/2008, -0/+21They kinda do, it's "for the love of god i'll tell you anything you want"!
- salivalnz, on 07/03/2008, -0/+19Sorry, how many people have died in the Iraq war?
Does doubling the death-toll of 9/11 by killing another 3000+ of your countrymen and women change the fact it happened? What about the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths?
Do you feel avenged? - iJessicaRabbit, on 07/03/2008, -0/+20Same here... the picture really sets the tone of the article
- inactive, on 07/03/2008, -0/+18Because ANYTHING is OK as long as it's in the name of AMERIKA and protecting freedoms, at least in the eyes of that ***** Bush. Guantanamo is an absolute disgrace. Oh thats right we have LAWS on Amerikan soil so lets just torture them elsewhere, thats OK then LOL. Prison ships? It's not an oversight, it's PLANNED that way.
- Ingersoll23, on 07/02/2008, -1/+17I love his books but i wish he would give up on Bush already.
(Attached here is a very good organized debate on 'Tough Interrogations' it is an audio file. This debate is very well balanced and I highly recommend it to everyone with a interest in the topic.The entire Intelligence Squared debate catalog is incredible: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ... ) - AvangionQ, on 07/03/2008, -0/+16"Here is the most chilling way I can find of stating the matter. Until recently, "waterboarding" was something that Americans did to other Americans. It was inflicted, and endured, by those members of the Special Forces who underwent the advanced form of training known as sere (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). In these harsh exercises, brave men and women were introduced to the sorts of barbarism that they might expect to meet at the hands of a lawless foe who disregarded the Geneva Conventions. But it was something that Americans were being trained to resist, not to inflict." ... Christopher Hitchins is a brave man indeed to allow himself to be subjected to waterboarding in order to prove a point -- it is sad to see how far we mighty have fallen ... in World War II, Japanese officers who ordered or personally subjected prisoners of war to such treatment typically received 15 year prison sentences -- should we not apply the same standard to our own government officials?
- MammasMilk, on 07/03/2008, -1/+16Hi Bluestar,
Hitchens also said he wakes up suddenly to the feeling he's being smothered. That is only after one session where he was able to stop the torture.
There are lasting effects when someone cannot stop it and it is done over and over again.
So folks lets not give Bluestar and other thugs the frame that there are no lasting effects.
Ironically, we could waterboard Bluestar and make him say that it's torture, that he hates America, that he hates Bush, that he's a lefty liberal and that he hates his own mother. Damn good thing for people like him that we would never do something like that to him. - inactive, on 07/03/2008, -0/+15Except Hitchens is a neo-con who WAS pro water boarding until it happened to him. Actually READ the articles much dumb *****?
- FOBL, on 07/03/2008, -1/+161. Hitchens is a neocon supporter, so coming from him this carries a lot of weight.
2. If any of you think that waterboarding isn't torture, then you shouldn't have any problem with it being used on your children or other loved ones. Just parlor games between friends, right? So the next time a dollar goes missing in a 4th grade class, we know an acceptable technique to get those rugrats to talk! - akimbo, on 07/03/2008, -3/+18this comment is only for bookmarking purpose... feel free to digg down.
- andreo, on 07/03/2008, -1/+15Something like this could screw someone up for a very long time if not for life. I was surprised at just how little water was actually used. I thought they would be creating a mini waterfall. But his shirt is barely wet!
Evil stuff in deed. - darkknightita, on 07/03/2008, -1/+16Picture unrelated.
- jamdogg, on 07/03/2008, -7/+21No - A mixed race president.
- JoeyDeacon, on 07/03/2008, -4/+17If it isn't torture then why would anyone use it?
If it wasn't torture it would be called washing their hair.... - iamchewy, on 07/03/2008, -2/+15Hitchens writes, "I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia." He was waterboarded in heavily controlled conditions, knew that afterwards he would not have been put back into a dark cell to be subjected to more torture at a later date (he even states this in the article), and yet still bears signs of severe psychological distress. Hardly "completely fine to go on with life as normal".
- Logicexe, on 07/03/2008, -1/+13Exactly. It would be far more efficient and moral to just ask the captured terrorists to make up plausible attack plans on the spot. Hey you never know, he might accidentally tell on some of his friends. You might claim this is a pretty silly and unreliable way of gathering intelligence but it's not like you'll get better information from torturing him.
- Wakkyweed, on 07/03/2008, -2/+14So waterboarding isn't torture because it "really doesn't harm you"? Well, electric shocks to the genitals don't really harm you, they just cause momentary intense pain! By your logic, that should also be used as an "advanced interrogation technique".,
Just because you don't suffer permanent physical harm doesn't mean you weren't tortured. Oftentimes mental torture can be just as bad as physical torture. - MammasMilk, on 07/03/2008, -0/+12yeah... if you think it's alarming as an outside observer, try being an inside observer.
- AngryFox, on 07/03/2008, -2/+14Congratulations bluestater. You are a raging idiot.
- ciaran036, on 07/03/2008, -1/+12Just shows you. He's struggling for breath seconds into it. Just think what those arrested have to endure. More often, innocent people too, forced to confess to crimes they never committed.
- benleefield, on 07/03/2008, -1/+12I don't know the author as I'm a Brit, but I think he says it all - don't do it to others if you don't want them to do it to you. I guess the people at the top of your food chain who authorised its use didn't actually try it out themselves...
- covertbadger, on 07/03/2008, -1/+12@buddypriefert
"First, try selling the idea that we need not worry about terrorist to the 3,000+ victims of 9/11, of countless bombings in Europe, people taken over by pirates, etc. etc."
You're an idiot. You're not going to get objective answers from the tiny minority of people who have been personally affected. Statistically, the chances of anyone in America being victim to a terrorist attack is miniscule, so the hugely out-of-proportion response is indefensible. More people die in road accidents EVERY WEEK than died on 9/11 - should we ban all cars and waterboard their designers, for your safety? - ClosedCaption, on 07/03/2008, -0/+10The funniest part is that he says waterboarding doesnt harm you. Actually it can kill you.
- Duositex, on 07/03/2008, -2/+12I think you meant, "for the love of allah"
- inactive, on 07/03/2008, -4/+14The War on Terrorism is complete *****. You are more likely to be killed by lightning than terrorism. Wake the ***** up.
http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc530.html -
Show 51 - 100 of 275 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is