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229 Comments
- inactive, on 10/23/2009, -21/+221Rutner said it boiled down to doing what was right or following policy. For him, it was an easy CHOICE..
"I couldn't let him get away," Rutner said. "That's wrong."
But Michelle Bradford, a Wal-Mart Stores Inc. spokeswoman, said the store's no-chase policy is CLEAR.
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I worked at a grocery store during high school. They all are VERY CLEAR about stuff this during training. You do NOT chase after people robbing the store once they clear the doors.
A) They tell you "it's not worth your life to save some groceries".
B) The company becomes liable for anything that happens in the parking lot (see: injuries + lawsuits)
This guy made the CHOICE to chase after the guy AGAINST what he had been trained to do. Every retail store has this policy, not just Wal-Mart.
The guys I worked with in Loss Prevention said 90+% of their losses come from in-store shoplifting. Most people don't have the balls to take a cart full of ***** into the parking lot -- and then there is the problem of how to get away with the *****.
He deserved to get fired -- he should have payed more attention to the training lecture. - cheddaro, on 10/23/2009, -5/+94I guess we are going to do one of these stories every few months or so?
The headline could just as easily read "Employer fires employee for failing to follow company policy."
I know, it doesn't have the same ring to it. - likwidfuzion, on 10/23/2009, -3/+50So I can go to a Wal-Mart, steal some things here and there (petty theft), run for it, and not get chased after?
...
HI BILLY MAYS HERE WITH A NEW SECRET TO BECOME AN INSTANT ENTREPRENEUR ON CRAIGSLIST! - CanIGetAWitness, on 10/23/2009, -3/+35I hope you either come to a better conclusion later in life or you never get into law enforcement.
So as long as the best scenario works out, you're ok with dangerous actions violating stated procedures. What would be your opinion if the perp decided to take a hostage in the parking lot, putting the knife to the throat of a young woman and subsequently sliced her throat in a panic?
"Sure, things could've ended much worse, but they didn't.", just plain ignorance.
Please explain How he made it a safer place, he put anyone in the parking lot in danger.
THEY HAVE USED THESE SCENARIOS TO TEACH OTHERS, that is why they have a procedure. - DukeOnkled, on 10/23/2009, -2/+34My brother was a cartpusher at Wal-mart. about 3 years ago there was a thief who stole something stupid, something like a flower pot, although he might've stuffed his pockets. The thief ran out of the store, and, instead of following store policy, his manager screamed "what are you waiting for! run! Get 'im!." He and his co-worker chased him down the street for a couple of minutes until the guy stopped, said "***** this" and pulled out a gun. Both my brother and his co-worker stopped the pursuit (they told the guy to calm down and that it wasn't important enough to kill anybody for) and came back to the store. They couldn't officially punish them for not catching the guy, but their bosses sure were angry. ***** Wal-mart.
- inactive, on 10/23/2009, -8/+39It's not instinct, I can assure you.
When someone robbed the store I worked at, the first thing I thought was: Is everyone alright? Let's prevent anyone from getting hurt by this irrational person.
"He doesn't deserve to be fired."
He violated CONTRACT. These are in the documents you sign when you work for retail companies like Wal-Mart, so legally, they HAVE TO fire him. Maybe you're not old enough to know that a contract is legally binding, but it is.
"He protected the company that he works for"
No, he made them liable. What if the employee had tripped and broke his arm, or the robber tripped and broke HIS arm, either one could sue Wal-Mart for 1000x what the stolen items were worth in the first place.
Corporations also have this thing called INSURANCE, so they could have those items replaced easily. - DeanO1589, on 10/23/2009, -6/+33"Rutner and two other employees tackled the man outside the food center doors."
Tackled him over a sandwich and 40 bucks worth of golf balls? He's lucky he's not getting sued for tackling the guy! This is Wal-Mart we're talking about, not like it's Fort Knox or anything. - inactive, on 10/23/2009, -4/+29People don't think the rules should apply when the outcome is good, like this situation.
The robber is caught, so everyone thinks he did a great thing.
But, If the robber had turned around and fired off 12 bullets and shot the employee and a small child near the entrance of the store, people would scream WHY DIDN'T HE FOLLOW HIS TRAINING?!??! WAL-MART IS TERRIBLE FOR NOT TRAINING THEIR EMPLOYEE TO FOLLOW PROCEDURE!!!! ***** WAL-MART AND THEIR IDIOT EMPLOYEES!!!!
You can't expect logic from the prepubescent audience of Digg.com, most of which haven't worked more than a few years of their life or had to deal with a corporate environment.
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Also, what a retarded argument, Brandon JM:
You don't have time to think about procedure man, you just do whatever the ***** you think is cool and go with it, man. Whatever you think is right in your heart, dude, no brain power required!
See how long you last at a real job having that attitude, especially if you're dealing with the public and the safety of other people. - Mpwns, on 10/23/2009, -0/+23wake me when digg gets stories about people getting hired.
- momedefome, on 10/23/2009, -4/+26It is stupid but it kind ofmakes sense , your safety is more important than chasing a idiot that stole ***** at WAL MART
- doctechnical, on 10/23/2009, -0/+21Doing it and getting away with it are to very different things. Make sure what you swipe is worth the effort, because you're going to be on a dozen different security cameras. Ah, and steal a car before doing this, so they can't track your REAL license number. I mean heck, in for a penny, in for a pound, right?
- yankeedollar, on 10/23/2009, -1/+22I have to agree. The guy is there to let you know he's watching, nothing more. They tell him to avoid doing one thing, ONE LITTLE THING, and he ignores it. Fire the idiot and hire a bucket of sand with a sign reading "don't steal" and you've just saved yourself 8 bucks an hour.
- boombye, on 10/23/2009, -6/+25I went to Walmart for the first time on Tuesday, and it was overwhelming. I only went to buy Transformers 2 but it was such a warehouse of evil savings that I ended up coming back home with like 10 movies.
- 1234brandon, on 10/23/2009, -0/+18I used to work in Wal-Mart LP. It seems that things have changed in the last 5 years. Back when I was doing this a thief almost backed a car into me and the police used that as a reason for stopping him. He was trying to steal a 20" monitor; he tucked it into a suitcase on wheels.
On another occasion I tackled this other guy after he roughed up 2 other LP guys. He was trying to steal an $80 CD player.
The reason why I told these stories was because after each of the events transpired I received accolades from management and was told to 'keep up the good work'. Now that I really sit down and think about it; their no chase policy is a good one. I could have been run over or gotten some kind of disease from a bleeding drug addict.
This story still bothers me though. Yes the LP guy chased the thief and that was a no-no, but what isn't said though is that WM makes quotas for their LP staff. They put a ton of pressure on people to catch sometimes (based on the store's shrink) 3-5 culprits a week. I imagine this kid was feeling the strain of that pressure. - CanIGetAWitness, on 10/23/2009, -7/+25It is sad to see you dugg up while SuperTaco is being buried, but this is typical Digg mentality.
Say it with me: Procedure is Everything
This "kid" would not make a good cop and you are likely someone who would be bitching if he didn't have time to think which led to someone innocent getting hurt. One should ALWAYS ***** THINK!
Law enforcement whether it be a cop or store security cannot employ the cowboy mentality. The thief would of gone to jail anyway as security footage would of led detectives to the culprit.
Like SuperTaco said, there are liabilities to deal with and law suits can occur, over what, some ***** golf balls. There is a historical precedent for such policies. - inactive, on 10/23/2009, -3/+20No lives were at stake as the robber made off with the goods.
He put himself in danger and people around him in danger.
What if that robber had a gun and started firing shots back toward the store employee chasing him? He was obviously irrational enough to rob a store, he's probably irrational enough to unload a clip in a crowded parking lot.
You should seriously rethink what makes someone a "hero". It probably sounds cool for you to give the kid props on the internet, but it's really unfitting in this situation. - hymneforthedead, on 10/23/2009, -1/+17*cops pull up, and introduce you to your new trans sexual bunk mate.
- puffycow, on 10/23/2009, -1/+16There are policies in place for everyone's safety. What if he chased the guy and the theif decided to take a hostage and stabbed them. You would be saying how this guy is a moron.
- duewydo, on 10/23/2009, -0/+15yes, agreed, ***** Wal-mart.
- doctechnical, on 10/23/2009, -1/+15Dugg for "Warehouse of evil savings". That really should be the name of a retail store.
- chadsmith729, on 10/23/2009, -3/+16I worked at Best Buy and it's the same policy there as well. If they make it out the doors then call the cops, tell them what you saw and review any footage you have of them. Let the police handle the situation. If you can get them while they are still in the store then you can confront him.
I was at Wal-Mart about a year ago and this little punk ass kid runs out of it with something in his hands he obviously stole. The wal-mart employees stood right outside the door and described the guy on the phone. My wife was 8 months pregnant and I had the groceries in my hand so I couldn't chase that little bitch down. I scanned the paper and the next day the cops did get him and found that he stole a movie. - inactive, on 10/23/2009, -2/+14So, your first instinct is to chase after someone? Once they leave the store, it's no longer your responsibility. Did you ever think for a moment that person could be the "rabbit"?
I've worked retail, and we had been trained on identifying people casing the store. Sometimes there is more than one thief, so while you are misdirected, they real theft occurs under your nose. Besides the obvious liability and danger associated with leaving the safety of the store (Accomplices outside with weapons) you have a responsibility to keep the rest of the valuables IN the store.
I have had the pleasure of subtly attending to some potential thieves, and once my presence (aka: attention to their needs) they decided they were just looking and left. It doesn't take confrontation to solve a problem. If he was paying attention, the person would never have had the opportunity. Further on the topic, everyone is in loss prevention, so if they are attending to customers then the opportunity never arises.
That was a fail on many levels, and most importantly, not an act denoting instinct other than that of saving face, and pride. Both of them foolish in this case.
On a side note, I've had would be thieves come back to the store and try and take my photo with their cell phones. Allow me to illustrate how to handle that situation. Approach the individual, and politely ask them to not take your photo. I imagined they wanted to circulate the photo in their group as to avoid the store while I was there. Smart thieves. - Schpamm, on 10/23/2009, -1/+13Like someone else said, EVERY retail store has a "no chase" policy for its in-store security. The reason? Because you probably have less than a 1% chance of getting shot, stabbed or god forbid, killed in the store. Once you chase that crackpot out of the store where his buddies are, where there are less witnesses, where cars can run you over, where the criminal gets desperate, etc... --- your odds of dying or getting severly hurt grow much higher. Read the article. The idiot was ramming the thief with shopping carts. Let the guy steal his twenty dollar item, it's not worth losing your life over, or worse, getting other people involved and them losing their lives. No store will discipline or fire you for making that call. Tough break for the kid involved, he has to learn the hard way, but it was the wrong call, and if I ran a retail business, I'd fire his ass too.
- methdwman3, on 10/23/2009, -0/+11What he did WAS wrong - it put himself, other employees, and customers at risk.
- gurudrew, on 10/23/2009, -0/+11You are correct. If the perp is still in the store all you can do is tell them that merchandise must be kept visible until paid for and if they give you any trouble you can ban them from the store. If you involve the police they can enforce that ban for you later should the perp return. If you catch them in the airlock you can stop them for stealing but once they leave the store all you can do is call the police. Also, if you stop someone in the airlock and they resist then you must let them go. You are not allowed to hold them against their will.
- 1234brandon, on 10/23/2009, -1/+12I believe this story 100%. It sounds like something they would do.
One time some pipe clogged at the store I was working at and sewage began backing up into the store. They made me clean it with a mop and bucket and then got mad at me for getting sick and calling out the next day. The store also stayed open the entire time. 2 days of sewage and Fire Marshall payoffs later they found the source of the clog. The McDonalds that shared my store had been dumping grease down the drain and it hardened. BTW the McDonalds stayed open the entire time as well. D: I never ate there again after that. - J3R3MY, on 10/23/2009, -0/+11Jack Bauer would have done the same thing. He does what he thinks is right, rather than following protocol.
- txballer, on 10/23/2009, -1/+11Security can't chase you?
Sweet, I need a new TV and maybe I'll throw in an xbox for good measure. - ventralnet, on 10/23/2009, -3/+12They are the largest employer in the world, with over a million employees. Many people depend on jobs from them to sustain their life.
- HookmasterCH47, on 10/23/2009, -6/+15Anyone stop to think how often these douche bags stop you for no reason and bug you about your receipt. These guys ARE NOT COPS. They should not be treated like cops. If anything, they are failed cops, and on a power trip. This time the guy may or may not have been in the right, but Wal-Mart's policy is based upon the fact that they know they hire idiots for this kind of work.
- chrispix99, on 10/23/2009, -0/+9One thing I don't understand about this policy. From talks with some Police officer friends. Shop lifting does not occur until after you leave the store. I forget the exact term, but it would be past the greeter (in the airlock) at walmart for example. But as a loss prevention officer, if you see someone putting something in their pants, when do you stop them? Because it is not shop lifting until after you go past the doors. That means loss prevention can only stop someone in the airlock. The only reason I say this is, I was riding out with a buddy, and he got called as backup on a Shoplifting for a rookie. The rookie wanted to cuff and stuff the person who had put some dvds in their jacket and was about to walk out. They stopped him before he left the store... The issue was, since he had not left yet, he was not shoplifting, and they were violating his rights restraining him there against his will. The officer went in and told the loss prevention officer, that the guy did not violate anything, he could pay for it and leave, or leave the product in store. If they kept him there any longer, he could file a charge that they kept him there against his will.. This was in Texas.
- Jonjonr6, on 10/23/2009, -0/+8Actually, I have a friend who was a manager at a Walmart.
He said there used to be a group of people who would walk out of the local stores with shopping carts full of stuff.
It took several months to actually catch them.
But yes, you can load a shopping cart full and just walk out and keep walking.
By the way, the loss for the store while that was going on was still only 1%. - veriix, on 10/23/2009, -4/+12THEY TERK IS JERB!!
- theOster, on 10/23/2009, -1/+9not quite the same scenario, but i used to work at a marina out on the gas dock and we had a live-aboard that was a ragin alcoholic. one day i heard a huge splash down by his boat and when i ran down there, he had fallen in and was actually sinking under his boat with the current sucking him under. i jumped in and pulled him out and was later reprimanded (mildly) for doing so. they said they can't have their employees jumping in teh water and risking their own lives. its all grouped under liability.
- Solkre, on 10/23/2009, -0/+8We can debate about the rights and wrongs of following a shoplifter beyond the doors all day long.
This man did chase one, and someone willing to pull a knife on people is now in jail, and for that I thank him. - Krissam, on 10/23/2009, -0/+8In Denmark he would have actually commited a crime.
You're not allowed to catch armed robbers on your own (this is to prevent storekeepers to pressure employees into doing something like this, should the situation arise) - Hawkeye1959, on 10/23/2009, -0/+8I wish the old Big Star grocery in the 70's had a no chase policy. The guy there chased me through the parking lot till I couldnt run anymore.
- GorfTron, on 10/23/2009, -1/+9I'm impressed that anyone involved with Walmart can run at all.
- Zarchon, on 10/23/2009, -0/+7"I had nothing better to do than find new places in the back to stash baseball cards to steal later,"
Maybe this had something to do with you not lasting much longer. - Iceman21, on 10/23/2009, -0/+7I am interested in how you made █████████, it sure as hell is not on my keyboard.
- nugget, on 10/23/2009, -0/+7I worked at walmart and they have all these training videos we watched on computers and one entire video and test over the video was just "Don't chase or detain people." That was a big one for them because they can get in lots of trouble and/or lawsuits. Hell they are not supposed to do anything if the detectors go off as you leave the store, and I hardly ever stop for them because it is not like I'm shoplifting anything so why should I need to stop so they can check my receipt.
- Smokeydabear, on 10/23/2009, -13/+20I would say he's better off not having to work at that hell hole. He should be glad he got fired.
- jerrolds, on 10/23/2009, -0/+7go for it!
- Leviathan433, on 10/23/2009, -2/+8Much as I detest Walmart, any store would do this. I used to manage in retail and it just isn't worth it. You have no idea if they are carrying or what is waiting for you in the parking lot if you give chase. I told my employees flat out that I would fire them if they tried that *****.
No $8/hour heroes, please. - txballer, on 10/23/2009, -0/+6@steal a car before doing this, so they can't track your REAL license number.
We're talking about theft not robbery. Just take the license plate off your car then prop it up in the back window when you're out of the area so the cops won't pull you over for not having a license plate. - 1234brandon, on 10/23/2009, -1/+7Maybe the dude's dealer was an avid golfer.
- Harabeck, on 10/23/2009, -1/+7Wal-Mart is the gorilla in the room, so people pick on them, but they aren't evil. I worked there for a summer and got a dollar over minimum wage with no experience for a mindless entry level job, with promised regular raises if I had stuck around for more than a summer. Anything bad you can say Wal-Mart is relatively better than most corporations.
- pintomp3, on 10/23/2009, -0/+6I worked in fast food in HS and they had a similar policy. When I was held up once I laughed at him because I thought the guy was joking. When I realized he wasn't, I just walked away from the register to the back of the store and he ran out of the store. They didn't fire me, but made me watch "what to do" videos. Luckily he was bluffing about having a gun. I'm no fan of Walmart, but I gotta side with them on this one. Maybe they could have suspended him or made him go through training instead of firing him though.
- altgeeky1, on 10/23/2009, -1/+7Walmart simply SHIFTS jobs that would have existed elsewhere. When Walmart expands and hires, somewhere else downtowns implode and all family businesses die. There is no net gain in jobs.
If anything, the community usually suffers a net loss in income, a trade deficit. No longer will anything locally produced be sold. Out my way we have SuperWalmarts, and right now it's apple season and there's TONS of large Apple farms here. But all the apples sold in town Walmarts are from 2500 miles away.
Walmart is a drain on the government and the taxpayer. They have MASSIVE influence on how our transportation dollars are spent, and much of their employees rely on state aid (such as medicaid) because they pay so little and their health insurance is a joke.
Walmart calls the police and demands prosecution for EVERY shoplifting incident. Police are usually only interested in repeat offenders, due to the costs of pulling a cop off of patrol, booking, etc. As a result many towns install "precincts" -inside of the freakin store - a dedicated purpose cop who could be doing something useful instead.
Walmart is very profitable, no doubt about it. However everything about Walmart is about taking advantage of loopholes in the system, and running things in a very UN-sustainable manner - unsustainable for everyone else.
Google "abandoned Walmart stores" to see how Walmart simply abandons property after having built such a huge box, and after having convinced the town to spend so much money on surrounding infrastructure... only to pull up stakes and move to the next town, like the locust. - WhiskeyLemur, on 10/23/2009, -1/+7Or the next Darwin Awards, when his luck finally runs out.
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