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1045 Comments
- thecatcantalk, on 01/06/2009, -8/+611Hey...if I run over a traffic cop with my truck tomorrow morning, can I walk away scot-free by claiming that I was too stupid to tell the gas pedal from the brake?
"Your Honor, I could've sworn I was stamping the BRAKE pedal into the floor...I had no idea I'd cause that policeman's body to explode like a water balloon flung against a brick wall! I'm just dumb that way. Can I go now? I can? Can I get a paid vacation, too?"
What's that you say? "No one's stupid enough to believe an excuse like that!" No sh*t. That's my point. - BuckQJohnson, on 01/06/2009, -20/+587The police spokesperson is coming out saying that the officer could have made a mistake thinking the gun was A STUN GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what I have been saying for months, they want it both ways. They want to say that they are professional and don't do this or don't do that etc., yet when something happens and they are CAUGHT they come out and say oops a mistake or he or she is just human like you and me. This man was handcuffed on the ground and one of the officers decided to shoot him. Our society is fracturing and these idiot cops and the justice system (you know the lawyers, judges and prosecutors that went to college) should know that when a justice system and their enforcers are perceived to be inept, crooked or abusive. It makes people like you and me not respect the system and in many cases consider the cops as a gang.
They killed this guy in front of witnesses and they still make excuses like they spilled milk or something. Another thing to consider also, this didn't used to be a major problem until it started to affect us whites also. You see this stuff have been going on for decades in the minority communities. Now it has started to happen more frequently to whites across america also. Some of my friends thought yea good, the police is looking out for US etc. etc.. What they never figured out is (as one african american scholar put it) they try out stuff on the blacks and other minorities first before they try it out on the majority or whites. So as a white person ask yourself this, you have a good looking wife driving around in a nice car, you go out to dinner and a cop sees you and is jealous of you and wanting to be you. So what he does is start to stalk you and your wife and demasculate you by getting rough on you because of some trumped up charge (planted drugs in the car). He arrest you try to get you fired from your job etc. etc.. You may think I'm making this up but it has happened and is happening.
Cops are people like you and me, they get jealous spiteful hateful intimidating predatorial etc.. The difference between us and them is that they perceive themselves as above the law and have a legal means to solve their inadequacies. They use the power of the badge and the gang mentality that has been with them for years. Our politicians are either blind and out of touch with reality and are looking out for themselves (delusional), or do know and want this to happen because they have been told that this grea PONZI scheme of our economy both federal and private can't be maintained. And if that is the case they need this police force to be brutal in order to keep the serfs from coming after them. - thecatcantalk, on 01/06/2009, -2/+496A police officer typically carries his Taser on the OPPOSITE side of the body from his pistol. Even if the Taser were holstered below the officer's pistol (unwieldy, unlikely and uncomfortable), or behind it on the same side of his body (also unlikely, as it'd be quite hard to draw), the Taser is carefully designed so that it CAN'T be mistaken in the dark for one's pistol.
Policemen claim in court that their memories are infallible, and that they are never wrong...until they get caught committing murder in the presence of multiple witnesses.
THEN the cop claims he's too stupid and careless to tell his left hand from his right, and that he "accidentally" snuffed an unarmed citizen. If he's really that stupid and careless, then how on Earth does his department avoid admitting criminal negligence in issuing him a gun and a badge in the first place?
You can't have it both ways. - mike2lane, on 01/06/2009, -13/+480And all the other cops will line up behind him and lie to defend each other.... another fine day in America...
- la7ydub, on 01/06/2009, -8/+373Why is this not on all the news channels?!?
So tragic. What an excuse...." I was going for my taser...oops" - lattethunder, on 01/06/2009, -17/+325This almost made me vomit. Goddamn po-lice need to stay cool or give the *****' gat back. I wonder how Grant's daughter's doing ...
- yourmartdotnet, on 01/06/2009, -36/+316The police state is here.
This was a murder plain and simple.
Is it time to fight back yet? - Saitekc, on 01/06/2009, -6/+248"A person close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that BART officials are looking into the possibility that the officer thought he was firing a Taser and pulled out his gun by mistake."
Perhaps I am wrong, as I am not a police officer, but a tasers hand grip feels much different than a Beretta 9mm pistols hand grip, and they look and feel noting alike. How a trained police officer could make this mistake, I have no idea. It sounds as if they made up the quickest ***** story possible in order to save the cop from being prosecuted. I personally believe the cop shot the man after he said something which infuriated the officer. - Anomaly100, on 01/06/2009, -7/+211That is cold blooded murder. It looked like the female officer was holding something that looked like a gun (?) the whole time. I'm not sure, but it was uncalled for. Claiming the officer thought he was shooting a taser is pathetic because that wouldn't have been necessary either. Besides, they know the difference between a taser and a gun, right! The victim was on his back and not threat. These are the cops that make all cops look bad. I hope other officers, but I doubt this, will not stand behind this murderer. But, we know how that goes.
- MrKobie, on 01/06/2009, -3/+204Lets hope the officer gets the same treatment as anyone who 'accidentally' shoots a police officer gets.
- UpstateNYDemo, on 01/06/2009, -10/+211Does is matter if it is SF police or BART police? My question comes from the fact that they are both police officers carrying a loaded gun and taser. They both have training in weapons and THEY KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!!
It doesn't matter who (SF or BART) killed Oscar - he is dead. His daughter is going to grow up without a father.
The person who shot him deserves to be in prison. - cryonix, on 01/06/2009, -14/+184"digg not saved" 5 times. But I tried to digg it.
This is scary though. When standing up for your rights means breaking a ridiculous law or pissing off trigger happy cops. Even when you're submissive and cooperating you can apparently die as a result. I think we're looking for terrorists in the wrong place. The only difference is terrorists try to take down the system from the outside. Whereas these police are doing it passively from within. Doing such actions and allowing such actions are the same thing. - alapoet, on 01/06/2009, -21/+179God damn murderous cops.
- h3lx, on 01/06/2009, -6/+140It is physically impossible to accidentally discharge a firearm. You have to have a loaded magazine with a round in the chamber, Your finger has to be on the trigger, you have to pull it back. If your weapon is out of the holster and your finger is on the trigger, there is no other course of action but to fire. It is not a bargaining tool, it's not used for intimidation. If you draw your weapon, you're probably going to kill someone.
Careless, stupid, improperly trained? yes. Accidental? absolutely not.
What do we know about the officer? - aleishman, on 01/06/2009, -0/+115If they can make a mistake like that, they should not be armed at all.
- celotil, on 01/06/2009, -2/+114"A person close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that BART officials are looking into the possibility that the officer thought he was firing a Taser and pulled out his gun by mistake."
You have got to be kidding me. If a cop is that ***** stupid that he doesn't know his own weapons at a touch then he shouldn't be on the force, end of ***** story. - ChadxINC, on 01/06/2009, -6/+117This is an execution. I can't believe I just saw that.
- brundlefly76, on 01/06/2009, -8/+117OK, first off, this incident happened in OAKLAND, not San Francisco. I think the op intended it to seem like it happened in San Francisco because he knows Oakland has a very serious problem with gang violence in Oakland and he didn't want to infer that the officer was working in a high-crime area.
Second, this was New Years Eve and the incident was a bunch of drunk teens brawling in the subway station. As they were handcuffing subjects they became surrounded by other teens from all sides who were also drunk and yelling at the cops.
So, lets just be clear - this was a stressful and dangerous situation the police were in, it was not just one guy on the ground 'fully cooperating' in a controlled situation.
That said, if you saw the slow motion display of what the cop does AFTER he shoots the subject, it is CLEAR he is HORRIFIED. He holsters his gun, moves away from the suspect, puts his hands to his head, backs up, bends over with his hands on his knees in disbelief at what he had done.
I honestly believe the cop was stressed and thought he was drawing his taser. There is no way a cop would deliberately execute a suspect like that in front of all those people, and he is BART transit police so he knows everything is on camera.
That said, this is a tragedy for the suspect and his family, and will likely cause a great deal of strife in Oakland. BART definitely needs to be sued, and the cop needs to lose his job and face charges.
However, from seeing it happened and the officer's reaction, I do believe it was an mistake. I do not think anyone who makes such a mistake should continue being an officer of any kind however.
I just don't want to see Oakland erupt in any more violence because of what happened. - Drahkar, on 01/06/2009, -2/+101Its nice to know that all the tax dollars we dump into civil protection are being so well used for proper training. Oh sure they'll say things like 'There is no way someone could train for a situation that is so emotionally charged'. I call *****. The guy was on the ground, being held in place by two people. Even if the *****-nut of a transit cop was trying to use a taser and then grabbed his gun by mistake there was no justification for it. Grant was not resisting or being combative. The whole taser aspect itself has gotten WAY out of hand, and if now they are able to use that as an excuse to justify flat out murder, then we have a serious problem.
Not to mention the fact that if someone on the street, who was legally carrying a gun accidentally discharged it and killed someone, guess what, they'd be going to jail for at the very least manslaughter. So why the hell doesn't that apply to a cop who PURPOSEFULLY shot an individual that was already immobilized on the ground? Hmm? - iidestined, on 01/06/2009, -1/+83there was absolutely no need for a tazer or a gun. Why would he pull out a tazer anyway? The man was already on the ground subdued. The other men were cuffed and the officers outnumbered the guy. Thinking it was a tazer is not an excuse anybody should buy. This is sickening.
- Gemfinder, on 01/06/2009, -10/+92Let's make a distinction here. These aren't regular city-beat cops, these are Transit Police; read: mercs. Hired guns.
This is institutionalized sociopathy. I've had so many friends ***** with by them. They don't let a day go by without making someone bleed. You can complain to their higher-ups but BART is so corrupt it's just pissing into the wind.
Glad someone finally caught the bastards red-handed, but I doubt there'll be a day in court. - identitymatrix, on 01/06/2009, -2/+83Only that he is a two-year BART police "veteran" and was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time. Source: http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews ...
Clearly if he managed to stay on the force for at least 2 years without incident he had to have been at least decently trained and in similar situations before, so I doubt the discharge of his firearm was accidental.
Anyway there are a lot of BART police phone numbers, email addresses, and names on this page: http://www.bart.gov/about/police/contact.aspx
Reports say that the shooting occured in the Fruitvale station, which according to the link above, is part of Zone 1 and was under the control of the following lieutenants at the time:
Lieutenant Gary Cagaanan 510.464.7031, gcagaan@bart.gov
Lieutenant Kevin Franklin 510.464.7772, kfrankl@bart.gov
I don't think either of these are the unnamed police officer, but I bet they would know who he is.
Also if anyone has seen any misconduct of BART police employees it would only make sense to report it to the person in charge of internal affairs:
Sergeant David Chlebowski 510.464.7029, dchlebo@bart.gov
Perhaps someone with the right social engineering skills will be able to find out more. - rootnik, on 01/06/2009, -1/+73Direct link to the video: http://www.ktvu.com/video/18409133/index.html (warning: ktvu has a ***** video player)
This is *****. - inactive, on 01/06/2009, -24/+89Well, get your FACTS straight. These were BART police officers, who are not part of the SF Police nor any other Police Department in the BAY AREA. They are private security police. I really hate HATE stuff no matter who puts it out. This is garbage!
- meddelem, on 01/06/2009, -3/+66"the way the police behaves is parallel to how their government behaves."
hence the word policē /policy - Aitese, on 01/06/2009, -3/+62I implore everyone, please PLEASE...if a cop says lay on the floor...no matter how unreasonable, just do it. Don't argue, don't try to explain why he's wrong. He'll NEVER change his mind...he can't be swayed by logic...just accept the blind robotic drone like stupidity of his mind and sort it out after. It's not his job to prove you did or didn't do anything...that's for the courts to decide. Will you be inconvenienced? Yes. Will he get away with being so ***** wrong? Yes. Will you live to walk away? Yes.
As a black man I don't even want to give them an excuse to taze me, let alone shoot me. Don't speak to them, don't look at them...just lay motionless on the floor.
Too many people are lost to idiots like this because we feel we can convince a fool they are being a fool. You can't.
Someone being wrong is not worth dying over. - allfury, on 01/06/2009, -33/+90THIS IS NOT SAN FRANCISCO, AND TO THE POSTER OF THIS LINK, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
MORONS.
my heart goes out to the family but this is nonsense. - doublefelix, on 01/06/2009, -14/+68That officer is *****. Nothing else is acceptable this side of a race riot.
- jsmith39, on 01/06/2009, -2/+55Ever seen a taser and a gun side by side? They have a radically different design for a reason. There is no fricken way someone could draw a pistol and mistake it for what is essentially a short baseball bat that happens to have battery's in it.
- zlintux, on 01/06/2009, -0/+53Work on your own facts there, buddy...
The BART Police are certified peace officers in the state of California, with all the same rights, privileges, etc of any other peace officer in the State.
As such, they are a Bay Area police department based out of Oakland.
So yeah, it was not San Francisco, and the SFPD's MTA unit had nothing at all to do with it. - korvan504521, on 01/06/2009, -6/+58"Yay! We burned down our own city! That'll sure teach that one trigger happy cop a lesson!"
Riots are a horrible way to respond to ANYTHING. They don't hurt the people responsible, and typically hurt the rioters themselves more than anyone else. They cause terrible property damage, kill and injure people not involved in the situation whatsoever. How would you like to be some poor truck driver in the LA riot getting pulled out of your truck while you're parked so some guy can bash your head in with a brick?
Peaceful protests are more powerful, and more successful, and are honest in their motivation. Thats what people should be doing. Peaceful protests take courage, riots are just criminal ***** acting like animals. - deadite66, on 01/06/2009, -23/+71the situation would have been calmer if the crowd weren't harassing the police.
- MWeather, on 01/06/2009, -8/+56Mistake, manslaughter, same difference. He needs to go to jail.
- bashnu, on 01/06/2009, -0/+47this angle is clearer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXWSgG-KNng
can't get that ktuv to play - inactive, on 01/06/2009, -1/+48What a bitch.
Even if he thought it was a Taser, shooting someone that's already restrained is unjustifiable and douchebaggey. - inactive, on 01/06/2009, -2/+48Everyone's too worried about Jett.....
- hawkspur, on 01/06/2009, -1/+45Exactly. They need to throw the ***** book at this guy. I'm sick and tired of cops thinking they are above the law and when they finally get caught doing something illegal, only getting a slap on the ***** wrist.
***** that. - inactive, on 01/06/2009, -7/+50What the ***** are you talking about, every cop involved will go down in flames. If anything times are getting BETTER, 100 years ago this wouldn't even make the news. Our society is becoming FAR more aware of this kind of ***** and by the look of this thread it doesn't look like anyone is putting up with anything. Stop pulling a Bush (needlessly fear-mongering).
In a police state we never would have seen that video.
And considering the MILLIONS of police officers in our country are genuinely good people and do there job (serving and protecting YOU) very well, using this and a couple dozen other incidents to label the entire group is JUST as asinine and unfair as the logic behind the racist pricks that judge black people that way. How could you all be so insanely hypocritical? - Raingwc, on 01/06/2009, -18/+58Anyone remember a small public outcry and weeks of rioting a few weeks ago in a country called Greece? Well it started because of something not too unsimilar to this, yet where's the riots hmm?
- inactive, on 01/06/2009, -1/+41Even so, I didn't see that guy doing anything that warranted being tasered, much less SHOT
- JenniferInMO, on 01/06/2009, -7/+46Ignore him. This guy is a troll.
- ElGubrush, on 01/06/2009, -0/+38Murder without intent is still a crime.
- eggraid, on 01/06/2009, -0/+38I think this is the most sensitive point made. They make us accept the fact that they have taser guns by telling us how they have been trained to use it properly. Now if they shoot someone in the back thinking they are holding a taser, this means their training is neither appropriate for guns nor for tasers.
I call for whistles - inactive, on 01/06/2009, -1/+39I usually find every bit of detail in stories like these to exonerate the cops (guy was resisting etc.) but in this case and with the excuse given, it's complete and utter *****. I've been handling weapons for most of my life and if you are a "trained" professional, you know the difference between a pistol, revolver, stun gun, pepper spray grip.... and if in the "heat" of a situation you do not, then you are not a trained professional and should not be armed with the equipment to begin with. I say sue them out of existence and bring the cop up on charges...
- Notasheeple, on 01/06/2009, -8/+44That means it's working. You are being conditioned to accept this kind of action as "normal cop behavior" so that you will just be scared and puke instead of mauling the dirty pigs right there.
Pretty soon no one will stand up to this gang of fascists. One day their going to shoot the wrong dude and someone will just take matters into their own hands. Let's face it. We already know the outcome of this tragedy. The cop will get paid leave and be cleared of all wrong doing because the "victim" struggled. Then after some basic psych. evaluations he will get his job and gun back and then be free to commit more atrocities like this. If that was was my kid, someone would have hell to pay. Personal vendetta style. - sirdarksoul, on 01/06/2009, -0/+36Simply said..there are NO accidental discharges only NEGLIGENT discharges
- bradspangler, on 01/06/2009, -8/+41Regular city-beat cops ARE hired guns. In fact, they're WORSE than regular hired guns because they have pretensions of some mystical justification for their obscene thuggery.
More importantly, though, it doesn't matter. Dude is JUST AS DEAD.
As commenter above noted: "...they are both police officers carrying a loaded gun and taser. They both have training in weapons and THEY KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!!
It doesn't matter who (SF or BART) killed Oscar - he is dead. His daughter is going to grow up without a father.
The person who shot him deserves to be in prison." - mrmaroon, on 01/06/2009, -2/+33A rounded and well executed argument?
I say.
But I totally agree with you. If he isn't fired, he'll resign due to a mental breakdown. - VeryBoredNow, on 01/06/2009, -4/+35Trust me there is a big difference between a Tazer and a handgun. Especially to a cop. He would have to have an IQ in the single digits to mistake a Tazer for a Handgun and as far as becoming a cop goes I know that ther IQ's have to be at least... oh nevermind. Bad argument.
- uncleosbert, on 01/06/2009, -1/+32you ain't whistling dixie. i was totally appalled when people were cheering the arrest of amy goodman, when she's 1) unarmed 2) a well known journalist doing legal journalisty things and 3) a sixty year old woman. people like, this guy:
http://www.thehotjoints.com/2008/09/02/video-far-l ...
we've got to be more appreciative of other people's rights if we're going to keep any of them. -
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