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450 Comments
- hamobu, on 05/30/2008, -19/+123Ever since Jesus died, things have been going down hill with Christian doctrine.
- BrainInAJar, on 05/30/2008, -33/+130why do /peop/e continue to believe in that bigoted nonsense at all?
"sky wizard says no women!" - Kent4jmj, on 05/30/2008, -22/+117They excommunicated themselves by their lack of union with Catholicism. If you want to be Catholic then be one. If not you are free to leave.
- askegg, on 05/30/2008, -28/+117"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law" - 1 Corinthians 14:34
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." - 1 Timothy 2:11 - inactive, on 05/29/2008, -44/+125"The Church says it cannot change the rules banning women from the priesthood because Christ chose only men as his apostles. Church law states that only a baptized male can be made a priest.
Proponents of women's ordination say Christ was only acting according to the social norms of his time."
And so it continues. Why do women continue to support the Catholic Church? - J3553, on 05/30/2008, -39/+116lol, religion
- sgiffy, on 05/30/2008, -18/+76That settles that. I mean if some guy 1900 hundred years ago said it, well then it has to be true.
- Berkana, on 05/30/2008, -3/+58None the less, the New Testament speaks about female prophets in Acts, Luke, and 1 Corinthians; are they to be subject to silence too? I hope you realize the verses you quote above need mitigating context for proper understanding–not that the verses negate each other nor that one picks and chooses, but mitigating context often precludes the hard-line stance on the matter. Paul, the author of the verses you quote, even wrote to the Romans essentially specifically telling them not to give Phoebe, a female deacon, any trouble and to help her in any way she needs:
Romans 16:1-2
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant [literally "deaconess"] of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me.
Here's what is written about prophetesses in the New Testament:
Luke 2:36-38
There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, and then was a widow until she was eighty-four. She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.
This, and other examples suggest the matter is not as simple as the face value of the verses you quote. - FeargusMcDuff, on 05/30/2008, -16/+71Look, I'm not religious but it says in the bible, women can't be priests. If you are a catholic, and a woman, that means you can't be a priest, those are the damn rules. I don't understand how anyone who's religious can just pick and chose aspects of their faith just because it isn't socially acceptable anymore. Just do the easy thing and become an atheist.
- runner108, on 05/30/2008, -6/+53There's going to be a lot of angry comments towards religion for this article.
- brstilson, on 05/30/2008, -2/+40"Proponents of women's ordination say Christ was only acting according to the social norms of his time."
To play devil's advocate here, hardly anything Christ did was "according to the social norms of his time." - Goallie11, on 05/30/2008, -2/+38This has been the Church's stance all along. They've never allowed women to be priests.
- nyx210, on 05/30/2008, -11/+47God: "Know your place, SHUT YOUR FACE."
- michelspc, on 05/30/2008, -5/+40dugg for "sky wizard"
- jpwalsh1, on 05/30/2008, -6/+40Why is this surprising at all? Catholicism has always had this stance, if a woman wanted to preach there are other Denominations that she can pursue, or mission trips she can lead. There are plenty of outlets.
- fluteau, on 05/30/2008, -8/+41If you don't agree, don't be Catholic. Otherwise, leave them alone and let them have their freedom of religion. Catholics are still included in that, right?
- Loonacy, on 05/30/2008, -0/+31At the time, it was a social norm to walk out of your own tomb.
- cresentfresh42, on 05/30/2008, -4/+33I don't understand what all this outcry is about. This action is the prerogative of the church. Nothing has changed in their policy, and this is just a reminder of that. I'd understand any upsetment over a change in doctrine, but this is anything but
- talonstriker, on 05/30/2008, -11/+38and the rest of the religions....except Pastafarianism.
- fyngyrz, on 05/30/2008, -21/+46Why do women support ANY church? Because they're gullible and/or fearful. Once you're in that state, you tend to do what you're told when the prize being offered is eternal life on the one hand, and freedom from damnation on the other.
It's religion. It exists as a control system; there's no surprise to be had in seeing various distasteful means of control being utilized in its name. Just be grateful they do positive things from time to time. The mormons do a good job with genealogy, the Catholics have been storing huge amounts of art with great care (though they're real ***** about letting the rest of us see some of it), the Jews carry along strong business ethics and a great food tradition, and the muslims did a lot for science once upon a time, perhaps they will come 'round to that again.
In the meantime, just concentrate on keeping their silly mythologies out of public schools and the laws, and don't worry about what the members of the various systems inflict on each other unless it is violent. In which case, kill them. :-) - talonstriker, on 05/30/2008, -1/+21***** no don't become an athiest. Become an athiest only if you don't beleive in god, not because you can't become a priest. I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your sentiments though.
That doesn't merely apply in this case. You see plenty of religious people (*cough* JamesSpaza *cough*) selectively disown passages in the bible because it doesn't fit their viewpoint, then turn around and swear by the bible saying its god's word. - drgooch, on 05/30/2008, -11/+29LOL... Yeah, that's what Jesus would have done.
- Berkana, on 05/30/2008, -4/+22You presume people automatically support something that is the most consistent with the gender identity political views of our modern times; this is not so because this notion of women as a social-political identity with collective interests is not one that is embraced universally. If this were so, Saudi Arabian women would have revolted a long time ago and overthrown their conditions, which are FAR worse than being barred from the priesthood.
- jmp120, on 05/30/2008, -12/+29I want to be excommunicated from the Catholic church. That would be awesome. It would be an incredible conversation topic.
- zephyr42, on 05/30/2008, -2/+19Ironically (if you knew your history) all of our old world history and stories survived the dark ages because of religion, especially the monks who were catholic. Know your history. The only "scholars" of the dark ages were the religious because they were the ones with the books.
- marksism, on 05/30/2008, -3/+19Monks, Brothers. They are there, not called nuns.
- SeaweedWater, on 05/30/2008, -17/+33Catholicism Wow!
- inactive, on 05/30/2008, -8/+24In california
Female priests will be able to marry other female priests. - brettmjohnson, on 05/30/2008, -2/+18Pope: sudo iron my shirt
- tomlasusa, on 05/30/2008, -30/+46So glad to see this current Pope is working on how NOT to bring the church into the 21st Century.
- omnithought, on 05/30/2008, -5/+20Yes, because genital mutilation, covering women head to toe, and admonishments to kill any who disagree with your faith are such civilized and modern concepts. Maybe it's you who needs to look into it more.
- EvilCan, on 05/30/2008, -2/+17God: "Iron my shirt!"
- Hetman, on 05/30/2008, -0/+13It is not that hard to do.
- sinbot, on 05/30/2008, -14/+27And yet none of you people were capable of discussing the article. Rather you insult religion.
Brilliant! - sgiffy, on 05/30/2008, -9/+22What I like is how this is all presented as if it is a serious inquiry into real things as opposed to a series of increasing complex guesses.
- iDiggIt42, on 05/30/2008, -2/+15...there's a delete button, you know.
- Phughu, on 05/30/2008, -1/+14point of order: the Vatican is not threatening to excommunicate anyone. The statement is that such an act incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. They're automatically excommunicating themselves by this schismatic attempt at enacting a sacrement.
- Berkana, on 05/30/2008, -2/+14Yes, but it would be just as much an over-simplification if you don't realize that the verse you quote speaks of spiritual differences, not earthly role differentiation. Spiritually, slave and free are both subject to the same sin and judgment, but the slave is not instantly freed of his slavery by being a Christian; ditto for genders and the roles they play, both in the society of the time and our modern times.
- inactive, on 05/30/2008, -0/+12At least someone knows what they're talking about
- inactive, on 05/30/2008, -3/+13Maybe if the higher-ups in the Cathlolic church had not covered up the molester's misdeeds they wouldn't have that reputation.
- romistrub, on 05/30/2008, -4/+14You first >_>
- rjseals, on 05/30/2008, -2/+12They are really not priests as they haven't received valid orders from a Bishop in communion with the church.
- Hartley1942, on 05/30/2008, -1/+11God forbid they enforce thier own rules.
- RedReplicant, on 05/30/2008, -8/+18Disagreements over scriptural interpretation do not constitute "excommunicating yourself." Although it seems to be very popular to support this, there is a lot of gray area in the Bible and decisions are constantly being made (and always have been) by church authorities as to what is canon and what is not.
Plenty of very convicted and devoted Catholics have been excommunicated for what amounts to simple disagreement with whoever is in charge at the moment. - zephyr42, on 05/30/2008, -1/+11RAmen.
- oldgal, on 05/30/2008, -5/+14That's what's so cool about the bible, you can use it to substantiate all of your personal intolerances.
- texasag03, on 05/30/2008, -2/+11Oh yeah, the Catholic Church completely denigrates women. It's not like they honor the Mother of Christ or anything. You know what would be cool? A prayer, maybe call it a "Hail Mary" or something.
That would be good if they had that...oh, wait, they do! Silly me... - sonoran, on 05/30/2008, -2/+11You're right! Let's stick to the Bible as our source for fashion and architectural guidance.
- ostracize, on 05/30/2008, -3/+12Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - StaticThunder, on 05/30/2008, -5/+14Lets assume what the Catholic church does. That there is a Heaven and devout people will go there to bask in God's glory.
Does the Catholic church really think you're going to have testicles or ovaries in the afterlife? Why? What are you going to do with them? Its like expecting to eat or defecate in the afterlife. To what purpose? Simply basking in God's glory will be more pleasurable than any of those activities and they won't be necessary for any other reason. How could it not be so. Procreation is a result of original sin. And so if in heaven, we aren't going to concern ourselves with anatomical gender, why are we so concerned about it here in the place that is supposed to be God's Kingdom on Earth?
They talk about bodies only being a shell for the soul, but when push comes to shove, they don't want to carry that to its logical conclusions.
Bunch of old, white, bigoted men who believe in fairy tales. They prove it more and more every day. And then they wonder why people are abandoning the church. These are the same men that would refuse to give a gluten-free communion wafer to a little girl with Celiac's disease.
You deserve the god you worship. -
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