What is Digg?Sponsored by newegg
Ready. Set. Shop view!
newegg.com - Newegg.com Black Friday Sale starting 11/25 3PM PST. No Lines, No Crowds, Click and Save.
75 Comments
- grozny, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Same morality as Reagan selling weaponry to Agfhanistan and Iraq, I guess.
Mr. Rumsfeld shaking Mr. Hussein's hand in 1988 after signing up a trade agreement.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clintjcl/189525347/ - earthmansurfer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Not at all for war, but what Chavez is doing in General is great. For an awesome description read Greg Pallasts book "Armed Madhouse" or listen to an MP3 from him. Basically Chavez is trying to stabilize the area and to also tell the World Bank to go F' themselves. They should really listen too :) He is paying (loaning) his neighbors money so the World Bank doesn't come in an take all their resources, yes, this is the US definition of "destabilization".
He has already lowered poverty by 30% in his country. He is holding on to more of the oil profits and investing it in his people. George doesn't like that model, and the proof is in America. What has he done to our Country... good God. So much for so few. I'm not into forms of government but if Chavez is trying to share the oil money with his people and his neighbors then I'm all for it, as opposed to the big wigs and stock holders of Exxon, Mobil, etc. getting it and further repressing us with it. - szelij, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15It's actually the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI
Wiki link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-30MKI
Basically it's a advanced version of the Su-30. It's the best plane that Russia is currently exporting right now. It's also fly-by-wire...so yeah it's very good.
On another note, i wonder why Mr Bush even bothered to ask Russia not to sell the arms...i mean he did block the WTO entry and criticised Putin's democratic records, and he wants to ask favours?
Like Stalin asking Finland to borrow a few tanks while Berlin is being bombed.. - Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17"Its a fact....now get your nose out of Mao's little red book, put down the latte, and step slowly away."
Commitment to political extremism and pure ideologies is what killed those people. They had stubborn dictators who refused to accept the possibility that they might be wrong.
Countries that are prepared to balance socialism with sound economics and democracy are doing just fine. Witness the more socialist European countries (esp the Scandinavian ones), who lead the world in every survey of healthcare, education, crimerates and citizen happiness. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13wow, sounds like the ***** us doesnt it? you shouldnt diss other countries when your own does the same, or worse. bloody hypocrites
- Elohir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13>It's kind of a "grim meathook future" corrupt capitalist/authortiarian hybrid.
Basically, the US with bad PR.
/jumps on the down-mod express - deut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@Narrator
Remind me who armed Sadam in the 1980's again? - Your hypocrisy is breathtaking. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Hahaha CamonZ you must be one of the rich 1% of Venezuelan plantation holder bastards that got the raw deal with Chavez coming into power. I love you being pissed with Chavez and I L O V E him doing what he is doing. I consider Chavez a real hero. I'd suggest you emigrate. I am sure you'll be able to find a nice appartment in the Bronx and a well-paying job in USSA food servicing industry.
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Remind me who armed Sadam in the 1980's again? - Your hypocrisy is breathtaking."
Exactly. "Universal morality" as applied to countries, rather than individuals, is a foreign policy invention, designed to make it easier to manipulate a democracy's citizens into agreeing with your desired course of action. Saddam only became "evil" in American foreign policy eyes when he started acting against American interests. Same with Chavez.
"This black gold is a curse on mankind, we should steer away from this."
Let's not forget that, while it has its downsides, oil is directly and indirectly responsible for almost all progress we have made as a species in the last 100 years. - ekso, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@datastorageguy
I agree with your facts but... since when the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, which is a Federal Republic that had democratically elected Chavez, is a Communist country? - ValFreEntrtnmnt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Russia isn't selling an ideology, it is selling products. There is a gap in the market for arms sales and it is filling it. Perhaps if certain western governments weren't intent on imposing their ideologies around the world the market for arms would be smaller (n.b. it's the *imposing* that's wrong).
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Shhhhhhhhhhhh, we don't talk about that anymore.
- scoot87, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16how does a digg story getting an average of 1 digg an hour make it to the front page with no comments (besides mine)? I'm just wondering whats in the front page formula to make this possible. And my two cents on the story: Chavez reminds me alot of what the US thinks in Saddam as someone who is an inconvenience to the US and should be overthrown because of US interests alone.
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"Stop being lured in by a political ideology that feels good but doesn't work. Communism is a great idea on paper, but when applied in the real world, it ruins economies and people's lives and robs them of their freedoms."
Please stop misunderstanding me. For starters, I commented on socialism and not communism, which makes almost the entirety of what you said worthless. (And let's get it right here, the dictators who ran the communist countries killed 30 million people in an attempt to defend their power and their crazed ideologies.)
It's possible to follow a political ideology by using it as one (of many) of the ingredients that guides the policies that you run your country by. It doesn't have to be the ONLY ingredient. All ideologies are flawed when followed in their pure form, including capitalism.
When properly balanced against other ingredients, notably capitalism and democracy, it can be a force for good, rather than a force for bad. The numbers back me up on this. The fact that European countries get by perfectly well by blending socialism and capitalism (French incompetence excluded) backs me up on this. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Too bad the asskissing media have a strangehold on US citizins and most murrcans don't have a clue or are too apathic to give a damn. Oh well, soon enough when the US comes crashing down, they'll learn the truth.
Too bad people don't learn. In 50 years we'll all be making the same stupid mistakes again. I'll be dead then, so what the heck do I care. Figure it out without me. ***** up world. - Nik420, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"Hey communism only killed 30 million people but hey lets give it another try. No one learns from history. In the political science department at my University there was actually a lecture given by a "panel of experts" claiming that the Soviet Union only failed economically because it wasn't pure communism."
The Soviet Union was not a communist country. The CCCP was nothing more than a state-run capitalist enterprise. Communism entails the people running the whole of the economy for the benefit of everyone. The Soviet Union started with those lofty goals, but such a system can never survive in just one country. To survive economically in the world around them they had to take on the role of capitalists - replacing rich businessmen in the West with rich politicians in the East. Such a system is obviously instable due to the very twisted nature of its core.
Socialistic practices are not automatically bad because of some actions taken by Stalin or other "left-wing" extremists. Facism can be seen as the extremist version of capitalism. How many people were killed by Facism last century?? Do you use that as a justification to abandon all economic tenets of capitalism?
It always makes me laugh to see the venement responses against any form of collectivization in any form. Collectivization scares capitalists. I can always spot the weak minded by looking at those that bleat out the capitalist, no tolerance stance toward anything mildly progressive for humanity. BAAAA BAAAA - Germanicus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Well, there goes any claims to morality.
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"Chavez reminds me alot of what the US thinks in Saddam as someone who is an inconvenience to the US and should be overthrown because of US interests alone."
Definitely, and so they have set the public slander machine into operation. It's the first stage toward identifying a country as a "bad guy". Then once the whole country accepts that it is a "bad guy", any further options needed (military action, economic sanctions, etc etc) are easily justified to the electorate.
It's actually quite amazing how callously obvious they make what they are doing. - ekso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Let's not forget that, while it has its downsides, oil is directly and indirectly responsible for almost all progress we have made as a species in the last 100 years."
I'd say that wars made the progress we had, not oil. I had a computer science teacher that said computer was only invented because of World War II. Otherwise it would come only many years later. ENIAC and Colossus were invented to break Nazis code and calculate bomb paths.
Also the Arpanet is a byproduct of the Cold War. - ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Title should be: US pissed off that Russia won deal with Chavez
That is probably small potatoes compared to what the US moves under the table. - loudribs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Yup...blatant populist though he may be, at least he is standing up for the right of latin americans to have control of their own natural resources and is engaging in redistributing wealth. It's going to be interesting to see how washington responds to him since, unlike cuba he's been democratically elected (not that seems to matter much to the white house despite its constant rhetoric....e.g. hamas) and he's got a hostage to shoot (in the form of oil reserves). We know that the US have already had a hand in the botched coup attempt of 2002 and that they have been supporting some pretty shady efforts in columbia but I think they've really got there work cut out this time and to be honest, I hope that any interference/meddling that they perpetrate falls flat on its arse. They've spent far too long treating latin america as some sort of plaything where they can act with impunity. A slap in the chops is long overdue.
- ekso, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Commitment to political extremism and pure ideologies is what killed those people. "
Right on. - ekso, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"I would call it "we're fed up with being bossed around by America"-ism, "
And it's not only "americaism", it's more to plain robbery by US oil companies. When they had some power over there all the profits from oil extraction and selling, south american oil, was going to US Oil companies. AND they still had politicians in their pockets that made really cheap taxes from these multinational companies.
This black gold is a curse on mankind, we should steer away from this. If US oil companies, or any energy company, is smart enough, they would make huge fundings on research of hydrogen and other renewable energies sources. - Nik420, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Why is it weak-minded to believe that co-operation is a better way to advance humanity as a whole? I'm sorry, but I am not a capitalist. I believe in getting a living wage for the work I do, but I do not see the need to exploit others to get it. Competition is justification for driving wages and benefits down to the point where the majority of people cannot afford to live comfortably.
The rich just get richer. Trickle down theory is a joke. - Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I would call it "we're fed up with being bossed around by America"-ism, since that is the strongest common line of thought among all these countries.
- Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Destabilize" = "convince other countries in the region to stop being pro-American interests". He's doing a pretty good job of it too.
"Although 3b on jets is a waste unless you have a military objective."
Anti-American regimes tend to be paranoid in their belief that "OMG AMERICA IS TRYING TO ATTACK US". I'm sure they are meant for defense. - Garda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ joelito I think that the Su-30MKI despite being as impressive as it is, wouldn't really match the F-22. The F-22 and the F-35 have the most advanced avionics in a fighter EVER. As well as that, all of its weapons are mounted externally and isn't designed to have a low radar signature the was that the American planes have been designed for stealth.
also, i think it may be a little inappropriate to compare the JSF, it's more in the same class as an F-15, which it is much better than, but the F-15 is decades old and is set to be replaced by the F-22 - redxii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+53 billion not rubles
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -12/+17Hahahaha soo cool. Chavez is a hero and he takes care of his population, in good socialist fashion. I love what he's doing even if he's lucky for having vast oil reserves. And that standing up against the big bully up north - brilliant !
I applaud Chavez. And he sure as hell needs those weapons. Putin is making really clear russia is losing patience with US unilateral crap. We are seeing a new global balance of power form. Reign in the murrcans a bit, that's VERY good. - RawAndCooked, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Ya gotta like the spin, Venezuela is trying to destabilize the region. Very funny. Like Columbia is a model state, or even one that you're comfortable having in the same hemisphere. Perhaps it's a new phrase in the Double-Speak lexicon meaning "staying well clear of the US"
Although 3b on jets is a waste unless you have a military objective. Puerto Rico is less likely than supporting Cuba. - Nik420, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8And why does everyone equate loss of personal possessions with collectivization? If I worked in a collectivized factory that was owned by the workers. It does not suddenly mean that my toothbrush, electric razor, cellphone, car, (insert personal belonging here) is suddenly free for everyone to use.
- hiscity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Hugo Chavez may well be the next ruler of Cuba & a coalition other non-aligned states (in South America, Central America, the Caribbean, and Africa).
He's "the man in the middle," all at once in bed with the Oil Cartel, China, Latin America, the US, secularized Christianity, and "economic spiritualism."
The US gas station chain CITGO is owned outright by PDVSA (peh-de-ve-sa) the state run oil company. Chavez has plenty of resources to draw upon.
Venezuela is the only place I've ever had my luggage ripped open during airport inspections. Nothing personal, they did it to everyone else in our group also, with no apologies.
If world leaders were a deck of cards, Hugo Chavez would be the joker.
http://www.proutworld.org/news/20030604cha.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROUT
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/5/22/165318/469
http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO/CompanyHistory.jsp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22Hugo+Chavez%22
http://books.google.com/books?ct=title&q=%22Hugo+Chavez%22&as_brr=0
http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN1844675335&id=dibXGgdZJagC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22Hugo+Chavez+and+the+Bolivarian+Revolution%22&sig=eTN-WESpfFls6EzyOlnjvXUv0FQ - Nik420, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Granted, if in a democracy, citizens agree to give away more of their income in exchange for government services, so be it. My point is that collectivization ALWAYS leads to a deterioration in the standard of living whenever it has been tried. Additionally, it ALWAYS requires forcible removal of personal property and the dissolution of basic human rights."
The standard of living in Russia deteriorated for the few at the top, but you are full of ***** if you believe that the Russian people as a whole had a better standard of living during the Romanov and preceding dynasties. Stalin was no fan of Lenin and Trotsky, who were the real Marxists of the Revolution. Stalin systematically murdered the true political activists of the Bolsheviks, and instituted a dictatorship contrary to all the stated political beliefs of his party.
Collectivization on a mass scale has NEVER yet been attempted in an industrialized nation state as Marx intended. These economically backward countries that called their popular revolution "Communist" were just using the language of the time to garner support from of pacify the Russians. They were in reality Oligarchies that have nothing to do with Marxism, and have hence sullied the name of Marxism as a whole.
I personally have little problem with the expropration of property owned by International corporations who are on the verge of challenging legitimate governments for control of our planet. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9The US would have no problem with attacking and breaking venezuela, as they spend more money on military hardware as the rest of the world combined. However there are other considerations. Before this week attacking Venezuela would cost the US a certain amount of trouble; with Venezuela having this hardware it now costs probably five to ten times as much.
Plus, Venezuela can now effectively resist those problematic CIA agents, CIA organized insurgency groups or false flag groups operation in south america. This should be a severe headache for the Pentagon, Big Murrcan Oil and the Military Industrial Complex.
Excellent, I love it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12GO CHAVEZ!!!
- joelito, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Anyone knows any news about the Sukhoi comming up to fight the F22?
This SU 30 looks like good competition to the JSF - zone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+624 diggs and 24 hours doesn't mean 1 digg per hour.. I've seen stories go from 5 diggs to 100 in seconds. speed counts too.
- Germanicus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hm, but I thought american jets weren't designed with dogfighting in mind? Isn't it more like, appear, beat down with long range accurate missiles, then dissappear off the radar?
- Joe091, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3lol, nice reference there :)
- Joe091, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3S3 billion? How much is that in $?
- treelovinhippie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4It's always interesting how the US wants to dictate what other countries do.
"Oh craptastical says I cowboy Bush! Those Russians want more weapons... their stockpiles are getting close to a quarter of what we have! ... let's stop them! ... or plan B: let's sell them weapons and make a ***** load of dough... heck it worked for Iraq"
:) - grozny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2>This SU 30 looks like good competition to the JSF
Su-30 (esp. K'ommercial' series) avionics somewhat on less impressive side, but dogfighting abilities on par or better. Depends on pilot skills. Anyhow, pure theory still and hope it'll stay that way.
>It's actually the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI
As reported by Russian media,
http://lenta.ru/articles/2006/07/26/venezuela/
it is not. It's SU-30MK.
MKI is a custom version for India. If they ordered custom avionics it might be designated as Su-30MKV.
better see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30 - daset, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2actually the deal is $1 bln
- Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Perhaps elite digg users have more power in their digg.
- redxii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Shouldn't there be a ruble currency sign with a slash through it? 3 billion not rubles.
- whackaxe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3that isn't the point, the U.S would have preferred that cheavez not get any arms at all.
- grozny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>Hm, but I thought american jets weren't designed with dogfighting in mind?
'Jet'? You mean fighters? Because bombers like B-52 and B-2 are definitely not for dogfighting.
The only american fighter jet that was totally incapable of dogfight was F-104. It carried only AA rockets. First F-4 were also rocket-only, but it proved to be er, impractical over Vietnam. Despite being designed as heavy and long-range, it proved to be quite good dogfighter.
>Isn't it more like, appear, beat down with long range accurate missiles,
>then dissappear off the radar?
It depends. Chavez is replacing 1-seat F-16 which is short-range, light dogfighter. 2-seat F-22, F-15, F-14 are heavy, twin-engine, long-range multipurpose fighters. SU-30MK is 2-seat multipurpose, twin engine, but it's lighter than F-22 and F-15. Read specs.
Don't put too much hope in 'disappearing' from a radar. Under some conditions stealth aircrafts are perfectly visible.
http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm - deut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.flickr.com/photos/clintjcl/189525347/
- Lardquake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2datarestoreguy, Big Tobacco has killed more people than Communism, Socialism and the Nazis combined, so please give us a break.
- Muddle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What Russia needs is an export the world needs, doesn't have and doesn't involve weapons of any kind. The entire world needs a break, we need to end the sale of all technology by everyone, design to kill others. The only item they have the world wants or can't make themselves is black sea beluga sturgeon caviar and they've mismanaged that to darned near the point of extinction.
-
Show 51 - 75 of 75 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is