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189 Comments
- trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -25/+80@AdmiralAdama & raisputin2
Why don't the two of you both go to your respective homes and go ***** your selves.
Both of your attitudes are so ***** negative its no wonder we can't get a god damn moment of peace in the ***** middle east.
If you and the cluster ***** you represent would put as much effort into peace as they do for pride maybe the ***** cowboy presidents of the US would quit sending troops over there. - evil-doer, on 10/12/2007, -15/+52actually they targeted the israeli army, if you looked at the stats of kills, they killed FAR more soldiers than innocents.
israel on the other had was the complete opposite, killing many more innocents than "soldiers" - daroots, on 10/12/2007, -10/+45Israel has always used illegal and banned weapons like cluster bombs.
The only problem here, is that the World AND Israeli public opinion is starting to realise how stupid was this war .
Bombing a country for 2 soldiers that are still POWs plus unable to take down the militia shows that neither the reasons nor the goals can be justified.
Now, a bomb is bomb , the violence in which Israel use their arsenal is well-know.Cluster bombs and mines are there to kill even after a war (Israel launched more missile during the last 3 days then during the entire month),98% of victims are civilians and they undermine economy long after the war.
@homerj14
How can you compare cluster bomb and rocket missiles to Katuska's from the 70's.
Stop trying to be the victims here, look at the numbers, Israel bombed an entire country from north to south ,from East to West, Katusha's landed on Haifa and about a few village that are smaller then my suburb
Stop comparing the incomparable : Israel is TOP world military power.
@AdmiralAdama:
You'r a Joke , how old are u?....12? - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -6/+40read the wikipedia article
Israel killed over 1000 Lebanese civilians and 250 Hezbollah fighters. On the other hand Hezbollah killed 120 Israeli soldiers and 40 civilians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon-Hezbollah_conflict#Targeting_of_civilian_areas - sam5271, on 10/12/2007, -10/+39Yea, like that is an excuse for the so called "civilized nation" of Israel.... I guess by the same principle in your argument all blood shed against Israelis (Civilian or other) is then justified, since they have massacred hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and built their Settlements on top of innocent Palestinian Civilians, and on top of the skulls of little children... Read some history you ignorant..
- raz98, on 10/12/2007, -11/+40AdmiralAdama, if you didn't know, in 1930s and 1940s some Israeli organizations blew up and assassinated civilian targets, and they were called by the international community "terrorist organizations". Then when the state of Israel was formed in 1948, these organizations later formed the IDF, the official army of Israel. Some members and leaders of these organizations who commanded such acts, will later become high ranked people, even prime minsters. A little history will not harm.
Now, on the subject, what did Israel in the last day of war was lame. They knew they cannot win their targets, so they dropped just before the ceasefire millions of bomblets (clusters) in heavily populated civilian areas ? I know the hezbolah was the bad guy in the first place, but why I have the impression the Israelis are trying disparately to show they can kill more civilians than the terrorists ? - Lokix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Gee, who woulda thought they might use some bombs we sold them?
- tjex, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23Just as a fyi, the problem here is that:
1) Those weapons were used in civilian areas
2) The majority (huge percetage) was used in the last 2 days of the war as the Isarel army was retreating and is seen us just a revenge measure by them against the population of southern Lebanon - Ulisses, on 10/12/2007, -11/+27I'm neither a Jew nor an Israeli, and I'll take the bait and whine or, as we intelligent people like to call it, voice my different opinion.
#1 How exactly do they brainwash me? Is it those pesky mind control devices again? Is Israel the final answer to the chemtrail conundrum?
#2 Who are you to bash Israelis or even those in Israel that are warmongers if you are too much of an ignorant to make light of the fact that some Israelis aren't.
#3 WHAT THE *****?
#4 "wake up" - Surprised you didn't tell me to grab the tinfoil hat. - wisam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17You can't "violate" cluster bombs use. Their use is violation in itself. The area affected by a single cluster munition can be as large as two or three football fields. Not to mention that a significant percentage of these bomblets don't explode at once, causing an imminent danger to civilians long after the combats are over. 40% of those in Lebanon didn't explode yet. According to Handicap International, 98% of registered cluster bombs victims are civilians.
- qbyte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Israel only has a limited amount of political capital left from the horrors of the holocaust. They try to make us feel like Nazzies any time that we disagree with their point of view and that is costing them most of their political capital.
I don't give a damn about anyone's race or origins. I do give a damn when they make an agreement and go back on it, though. If Israel made an agreement with the USA that they would not use those weapons and they violated that agreement, then they should lose out support of their efforts no matter how just they believe it is. - sam5271, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19@ daroots
Don't believe me... believe the numbers and the history..
1- "Al-Quds" Massacre - Late December 1937
A member of "ITZL" Zionist terrorist organization hurled a hand grenade at the vegetable marketplace adjacent to the "Nablus Gate" in Jerusalem. Scores of Arab citizens were either killed or injured.(1)
2 - "Haifa" Massacre - 6 March 1938
Members of the Zionist "ITZL" and "Lehi" terrorist gangs threw a grenade at the "Haifa" market, killing 18 Arabs and injuring 38.(2)
3 - "Haifa" Massacre - 6 July 1938
Terrorists of the "ITZL" Zionist gang exploded two booby-trapped vehicles in "Haifa" market, killing 21 Arabs and injuring 52.(3)
4 - "Al-Quds" Massacre - 13 July 1938
Ten Arabs were killed and 31 others injured in a horrible explosion in the Arab vegetable marketplace in "Old Jerusalem"!(4)
5 - "Al-Quds" Massacre - 15 July 1938
A member of "ITZL" terrorist gang hurled a hand grenade in front of a mosque in the city of Jerusalem at the end of the prayers, killing 10 Arabs and injuring 30 others.(5)
6 - "Haifa" Massacre - 25 July 1038
A booby-trapped car placed by "ITZL" Zionist terrorist gang exploded in the Arab market in "Haifa", killing 35
Arabs and injuring 70.(6)
............and thousands more.....
http://web.archive.org/web/20040524234337/http://en.falastiny.net/books/massacres/massacres1.htm
http://www.soundofegypt.com/palestinian/adult/massacres.htm#KING
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine.html - ozziegt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Actually 90% of the cluster bombs were fired in the last 3 days when Israel knew the war was coming to an end. (Source: CNN)
- billyh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15From March, 2000:
"Half a million children have died in Iraq since UN sanctions were imposed - most enthusiastically by Britain and the US. Three UN officials have resigned in despair. Meanwhile, bombing of Iraq continues almost daily. John Pilger investigates"
Squeezed to death
Saturday March 4, 2000
Guardian Unlimited
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,232986,00.html
Don't be dubious, do a Google Search. Find out for yourself. And try to understand that there was an Iraq before you first heard about it from the mouthpiece-in-chief in 2002. For instance, did you know Iraq was the pre-eminent emerging first world country in 1989? Did you know that Iraq had universal health care for all, yes Kurds included. Did you know school was free in Iraq? Yes, including your Ph.D and that included not only books but the paper and pencils with which to do the work? The finest hospitals in the world could be found in Iraq designed by Iraqi artchitects whose ministry was headed by a woman? And do you understand that we have bombed the country literally back to the stone-age where Baghdad does not have electricity? The water cannot be drunk for the radiation. The Tigris cannot be swum in? Cancer has risen by an astounding rate (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1510710,00.html). Do you know that people were so desperate for water that they are drinking the stuff out of chemical drums? And do you think for one moment that this is a blunder? That the looting was not an intentional "oversight" by the likes of Rumsfeld. No, it is old warfare. Destroy the culture and make it your own. Let the antiquities and go and replace it with a giant bottle of COKE. - billyh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16"Steel rain" has been used by the U.S. repeatedly. Cluster bombs were cited for the deaths of 500,000 children in Iraq b/w '91-2002 BEFORE the US really started dropping them in 2003.
Steel Rain
http://www.cursor.org/stories/steelrain.html
Above the Law, Below Morality
http://www.cursor.org/stories/abovethelaw.htm
Grisly Results of U.S. Cluster Bombs
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0415-13.htm
And if you are up for some pretty difficult (sickening) history, try Clark's roundup of Gulf War atrocities with cluster and sonic bombs.
"The Fire This Time"
http://www.leftbooks.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-biac2002tftt.html?E+scstore
As the dick Cheney would say, most Americans "don't have the stomach for it." - raz98, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14RojoKayako, newsflash : after the hezbolah - israeli war, now the terrorist have a lot more supporters than before mainly because the Israeli stupidly attacked and killed mostly civilian targets and the Lebanon guverment wasn't able to do nothing for their people. On the other hand, hezbolah was fighting the Israelis and in the eyes of the civilian they looked more capable than their internationally approved government.
It's simple psychology. It's the same like bombing a building and killing 1 terrorist and 5 women and children. This will generate more terrorists from the relatives of the dead children.
Unfortunately Israel, like you, only thinks in very short term not on a large scale and, for some kidnapped soldiers they were able to start a war in which a lot of people have died (for absolutely nothing) and also destabilized the region even more. - Cheeseness, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13They were only using cluster bombs because they ran out of concrete donkeys.
Personally I want to know why the US gave them to Israel in the first place (but according to the article, that's "classified"). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I'm betting here's what we're gonna see. Israel will get a little slap on the wrist, Bush will say "don't do that again, at least when I'm looking", and things would go back to the way they were. Had it been Iran who used cluster bombs, then wow, just wow. 15,000 troops would be in Iranian land tomorrow morning. Armed to the teeth.
- Cog1018, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This just seems like another situation where the US doesn't really care what Israel does but slaps them on the wrist because it looks good in the international community.
This is what we get when we try to put rules on war. - ectocooler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13you can't use cluster bombs around civilian areas. UN says so, common sense says so. this applies to everyone, hezbollah and israel alike.
- thegsa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Can't We All Just Get Along
/gets stabbed in the heart - themicah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"sold"? kind of like some kid's mom "sold" him the new Hummer he got for his brithday...
10 years of Israeli war welfare could pay for health care for every single American for about 30 years, according to the Hillary plan. - sam5271, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13You are what the Vatican has called (and condemned) the "Zionists Christian of the US..." Good have Mercy on your soul... if that is how you interpret the Bible, then were are all doomed.... Christ, my friend, came to spread peace, and love, he came to teach us how to love, sacrifice and die for each other on the cross. With his love we were forgiven... He did not come to teach us how to hate, or kill one another... He want us to spread the WORD... NOT CLUSTER BOMBS....
- sam5271, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14There is a lot more
- tonto69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10If someone threw you off your land and made you live in a fenced area wouldn't you be pissed?
- appetite, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Yes, the ethical debate surrounding the defeat of the Axis powers in the 1940s should disqualify the US from speaking out on any modern day injustices. Thanks for pointing that out.
- appetite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8if only we had safer killing technologies.
- CrazyWolf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Most of the people here don't disagree with Israel's right to defend itself.
But dropping a bunch of cluster bombs on civilian targets without the possibility of enough intel to tell if there are fighters there is pointless and cruel. If they needed to destroy rocket launchers or hezbollah fighters in the middle of populated areas, they have plenty of bombs that don't leave a lot of their ordinance for children to accidently set off and end up crippled for years after the war. The US has made sure of that.
So why didn't they use another type of bomb in populated areas? And why did they drop a ton of cluster bombs on lebanon right before the ceasefire. Cluster bombs aren't mines. They aren't going to stop Hezbollah's troop movements. They are just going to remind the Lebanese of why they hate Israel everytime a kid's arm gets blown off. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@Rojokayako
I take particular pleasure knowing that God reserves a special place in hell for racist genocidal biggots like you. On behalf of humanity, I suggest you perform one of the following, so that you may make at least some meaningfull contribution to society: 1. Stab yourself in the face. 2. Go play in traffic. 3. Die in a fire. 4. Hug a live bear. 5. Jump in the ocean and find SpongeBob. 6. Sell your body to science. 7. Jump into any body of water with a live cat in your pants. 8. Pass the entirety of your body through a cheese grater. 9. Repetedly mash your face against pavement untill you become physicly unable to continue. 10. Clothe yourself entirely in live porcupines and circumnavigate the globe by way of rolling on your side.
In closing, go to hell. - espek, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23This from the country that dropped nuclear bombs on one of the world's most heavily populated cities at the time.
- themicah, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15You all who go on about Hizbullah targeting civilians, here's an idea: give them all top of the line precision guided weaponry and satellite surveillance gratis from US sources. Then let's see what they hit. I bet the IDF lasts about 3 hours.
You people defending the Israeli "response" here (scare quotes because it was a pre-planned mission and had fck all to do with the captured soldiers), think along the same lines. You are actually complaining that the inefficient, inexact ordinance possessed by Hizbullah managed to kill more Israeli military targets than civilians, while the Israeli ratio was reversed. What do you want? Equality? Fairness? Give me a break. Big Hairy Pussies. You got served, and you couldn't handle fair. - CrazyWolf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8People repeatedly claim that the devastation exacted on Lebanon will keep the Lebanese from supporting attacks on Israel in the future. But when has that worked in the past? Even back to World War II, the Germans continued to fight even after their cities were lying in rubble.
What makes you think that you can get people to stop wanting to attack you by attacking their family and livelihoods? It would be nice if people were completely rational, and the Lebanese weighed the costs and benefits of supporting Hezbollah before doing so. But those are not the thoughts that would go through my mind if I had to live in an area peppered with unexploded bombs. - chrisjj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm sure the rest of the world does have "the stomach" to go into the Palestinian Territories to protect the inhabitants from Israeli aggression - they want to send in peacekeeping troops but Israel, US and (I think Samoa) are preventing this. And we all know what happened to the UN Peace keepers in Lebanon during Israel's disproportionate war don't we?
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I totally agree Cog.
The US has sold/given weapons to:
Sadaam
Israel
Iran
Bin Laden
Hamas
And a TON of south american countries/rebel groups
However, 6 months later we have these "investigations" of these groups for violating war crimes. Israel has been targeting civilians for the past 60 years, if the Bush administration decides to give them cluster bombs he should be bearing at least part of the responsibility. - saikhan, on 10/12/2007, -14/+20"Hezbollah is a terrorist death cult that calls for Israel's destruction. Israel should be able to use any means necessary to deal with the threat. This is war, not Parcheesi."
"Ha! Your "freedom fighters" blew up a Jewish Community Center in Argentina, declare that they want to kill all the Jews in Israel, and now are attempting to overthrow the democratically elected govt of Lebanon."
The village called, they want their strawmen back. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11your post does not justify killing thoudands of lebanese civilians. basically, your attempt to defend israel in this case is a complete joke. you're just digging yourself deeper...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7You go do that. Seriously, off you go. You have no power in the world. You don't even have power in your country. Your country doesn't have power over the world. You can't "decide" what the rest of the world will do. You're just a racist little prick that would cry for his mommy if he wasn't allowed to play his playstation for a week. If better men than you didn't die to give you protection in America, I have no doubt your little punk ass mouth would have gotten you killed by now.
- themicah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7You're in the minority among the literate. How did you manage to slip through the cracks anyway? Shouldn't you be digging a ditch somewhere?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10it is a war crime to kill civilians, period. who killed AND TARGETED civilians? israel bombers. therefore israel is responsible for thousands of war crimes.
@uttles
you mean, yourself? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11I love how people seem to be convinced that it was only Jews targetted by the Nazi's. You're just one of the dumb puppets Israel makes dance whenever they yell the magic H word.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6uttles i am all ears, what do you have to say? clearly, you did not read the fourth geneva convention. here, because you are being lazy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention
brainwashing is another can of worms, are you ok with arguing about that? - mindlikeagog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Israel is a warring nation, they are governed by the military mind, they think guns and bombs will solve all their problems, they incline to use violence as their first resort. If it were not for American aid, armaments and nuclear weapons Israel would not even exist.
Zionists still bleat on about Nazi atrocities perpetrated on their race but say little about: Gypsies, Poles Catholics Christians Serbs, Soviet military prisoners of war, civilians on occupied territories including Russians and other East Slavs, mentally or physically disabled, homosexuals, Communists and political dissidents, trade unionists, and Protestant clergy that were also persecuted and killed in WWII in which 62 million people died; of which 32 million were civilians.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
And then perpetrate the exact same form of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and segregation of the people in occupied territories.
Innocent men woman and children are beaten, spat on, bullied, shot, tortured and segregated; they are denied medical care, education, aid, water, work, autonomy, justice and DIGNITY....... Just as America did to the Indians and blacks, just as the white European supremacists did to the African peoples.. And just as Zionist fanatics are doing now...
This is the reality of what is happening in our time!!!
425 PRCS and Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees (UPMRC) Emergency Medical Technicians and first aid workers injured (including 2 physicians). 121 ambulances were attacked and damaged.
991 incidents of denial of access to PRCS ambulances at roadblocks were reported.
2,859 deaths including 527, or 19% children (below 18 years).
At least 82% civilian. 600 killed by heavy weapons. 1,728 killed by live ammunition. 308 in assassination attacks/extrajudicial killings (grave breach of the 4th Geneva Convention and as such considered war crimes).
167 journalists attacked by Israeli soldiers.
94 attacks on press and media establishments.
12 Journalists killed by Israeli forces, (1 Italian, 1 British).
295 journalists wounded as a result of gun shots, physical assault or other means of attack.
Bullets: 5.56 mm (223 caliber), 7.02 mm, 9 mm, 50 caliber, 500 mm, 800 mm, rubber coated steel, plastic. Missiles. Tank Fire. F-16 fighter jets.
It is estimated that since the 29th of March 2002, 15,000 Palestinians have been detained,
6,000 of who remain in prison. Of these, 1,700 Palestinians are under administrative detention meaning they have not had a trial, and are imprisoned without charges being brought against them. 350 Palestinian children currently held in Israeli prisons and detention centres inside Israel and in the West Bank.
8 schools turned into military barracks.
185 schools were shelled and fired upon by Israeli soldiers.
11 schools completely destroyed.
9 vandalized.
15 schools used as detention centres and army barracks.
132 Palestinian students killed and 2,500 injured on their way to or from school.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many Israelis and Zionists claim that there has to be an exception granted to the "Jewish people" based on Biblical and historical Jewish background in Palestine However, Zionists do not agree when other countries exercise similar policies to empower a specific ethnic or religious group solely based on racial, religious, and historical backgrounds, especially when people of the Jewish faith are at a disadvantage. Such double standard is typical in the Zionist movement, and unfortunately any sound criticism of Israel or Zionism is usually equated with anti-Semitism, which is nothing but a cheap ploy to confuse and deflect the core issues. The core issues of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict are ethnic cleansing and dispossession of the Palestinian people for the past five decades, and it should be emphasized that the conflict would have been on the same level of intensity, even if both warring parties were Muslims, Christians, or even Jewish. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8No surprise, Israel invented terrorism in the middle east. Look at the King David Hotel bombing carried out by Jewish terrorists.
- tonto69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What took the U.S. so long to come out and say it? We knew this was the case long ago. What will we do to Israel as punishment? Probably give them more money! Israel will use its' usual tactic and make it look like it is the U.S.'s fault and get AIPAC to make us pay them even more foreign aid.
- chrisjj, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I see from the article that Italian and US personnel are trying to defuse the bombs. I want to know why Israel has not apologized and offered to send in their own people to clean up after themselves. This is an example of Israeli terrorism. Yes, nation states can practice terrorism just as effectively the usually-designated terrorists. Cluster bombs, or indeed any indiscriminate use of military might, dehumanize and debase all who participate. This should be front page news but sadly it is not, at least in the US. See also a graphic picture of a boy who was injured by a cluster bomb at: http://digg.com/world_news/Ban_Cluster_Bombs .
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@uttles
im sorry, i never realized that barbarians ever had the means to propagate propaganda on a world scale like that. as far as im concerned, the only propaganda i am exposed to (being a westerner) comes from the media networks.
"just because you dress like a civilian doesn't make you a non-combatant"
thats pretty ***** up logic, you know that? here, ill propose a moral alternative:
"just because you dress like a civilian doesn't make you a combatant"
youll find that following the second statement will result in less civilian deaths - raz98, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5nacrotek, in war, there are some things called "war crimes" and yes THERE ARE RULES. Maybe you've heard of Geneva Conventions ?
But if your thinking is right, and in the war everything is permitted, then the nazis had the right to kill millions of jews ? I don't think so. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Good thing the Air Force is developing anti matter weapons so we can eliminate all the evil gibberish speaking brown skinned ragheads once and for all and give their land to God's chosen people so Jesus will come back and take those that tithed enough to heaven.
- pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8i supposed you think the lebonese broke into israels arsenal and put the cluster bombs around civilian areas?
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Another Israeli terrorist organization planted a bomb outside a Palestinian girls school that was set to go off at 7:00AM when all the girls were going to be out in the courtyard. The israeli police caught them and removed the bomb, but the group is still around and hasnt been dismantled. They even admit to shooting palestinian civilians and destroying palestinian buildings.
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