What is Digg?231 Comments
- unibomber999, on 10/12/2007, -23/+1212 things about those numbers.
1. American law enforcement is very efficient and not nearly as corrupt as most countries.
2. Watch those numbers plummet once we stop locking people up for stupid, victimless crimes like posession of marijuana. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+105WE'RE #1!! WE'RE #!1!! WE'RE #1!!!! *WAVES FLAG* WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
- jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -13/+103I'd agree with you, but to do so would violate the terms of my parole.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+94a majority of them are in jail simply for being addicted to drugs,
And funny thing is prison does nothing to help that situation. They often leave prison addicted to even more drugs.
They arent criminals, they are drug war POWs - AngryRepublican, on 10/12/2007, -27/+67"China ranks second with 1.5 million prisoners, followed by Russia with 870,000."
China doesn't keep its prisoners. They just take them out back, shoot them, and then harvest their organs.
Russia can't catch their criminals. The Russian police are among the most corrupt in the world and half of the nation is operating on the black market anyway.
Don't assume that because we have the most prisoners that we are the most repressive. True, there are many sentencing laws and drug laws that need to be repealed and revised (why is weed even illegal?), but you'd need to work real hard to convince yourself that you'd be better off in China or Russia. And I'm tired of people bitching that we live in a "police state". You don't even know what a police state is. Example: Michael Moore, Alex Jones, and Dylan Avery are all still alive.
In times of national emergency, a nation must balance national security with personal liberty. This happens during every conflict, and what we are experiencing now has hardly been the worst America has experienced. Take a look around and you'll see that the pendulum is swinging back to the left, not that it would make you hippies stop complaining.
I firmly believe that democracy is the best solution for governance. It doesn't need to be a western democracy, just democracy. But just as the opinions of the people are muddled, varied, and confused, so is democracy.
Urusai: You must be equally introverted to assume that the US is the only nation with patriotism and it share of problems. You may bitch and moan, but I'd rather live here than anywhere else.
BigKitty: So now our democracy is the problem? How much do you know about our political system and it's institutions. I bet you're the kind of guy who hates this nation for allowing slavery, yet feels that we should not interfere in the affairs of Middle Eastern nations as they reduce their female population to a similar roles.
Hypocrites, every one of you. You want all the good things in life but aren't willing to fight for them and offer no viable solutions. When is the last time you wrote your congressman to voice your opinion? Are you politically active? Do you vote during every election? if not, then shut up.
America is not the best at everything. We have problems with crime, drugs, corruption and terrorism, but when we step back and look at the big picture, I'd say we live in a pretty good place. - bmson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33@uberlord
Are you comparing the US to 2nd world countries?
Compare it to other 1st world countries, like Norway, Sweden, England, Iceland, New Zealand, Spain...
Prisons in Scandinavia are like 5 stare hotels compare to many prisons in the States.
I know Icelandic prisons best.
- Some prisoners in Iceland (that were jailed for victimless crimes) get weekends off. Can get out of the prisons over the weekend.
- There is cable TV in every prison in Iceland
- They eat the same food as the prison guards (really good food).
- They can visit there relatives over the Christmas and if they are dangerous there relatives can spend there Christmas with them, in the prison.
- The highest sentence you can get is 16 years
Iceland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
Then you will say.. because Iceland is couch a small country (only 310.000)
Japan has also one of the lowest crime rates in the world...
They are not small. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32only the lucky ones get to go jail in russia.
- 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31Land of the Free ? who ever told you that is your enemy!
- Zach De La Rocha - KenOh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27@matthewaaron
"The difference is that a lot of other countries still execute their lawbreakers"
How would that make them "different" from the US? - AngryRepublican, on 10/12/2007, -21/+43to Dagonweb:
Fine, be critical of us. Yes, we are strict and yes, we need some honest-to-god prison reform. But "horrible imperial behemoth" and "arrogant fascists"? I don't understand you other western nations. We are the largest military force in the world and WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE. You may disagree with specific policy and I don't blame you if you do so. We are an independent nation and we have our own self-interests to pursue, just like any western nation. But if you ever got into a jam, you know that we'd come to your aid. WE are the reason why you only spend 2% GDP on military and only a few billion on research. Right now we are the only nation with significant capacity to withstand future threats, and we are the nation most often called upon to lend our troops to peacekeeping forces. I'm sorry that OUR army paid with OUR tax dollars can't be at YOUR disposal 24-7. Hate us for being the policemen of the world, but I don't see anyone else clamoring to pick up the title, except maybe China. How would you all like that? - Lixie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26The majority of the opinions I find in this topic assume that only the guilty are imprisoned.
DNA testing, as well as other methods, have revealed our justice system is not infallible. Innocent people are accused, tried, convicted, and imprisoned (in some cases executed), because the court system is vulnerable to error.
Here's a fact that is surprisingly left out of the discussion. The United States of America has more laws than almost any other country. Consequentially, the more laws there are, the more laws there are to break. There are many activities that are illegal in the US that are not illegal in many parts of Europe. I would guess that if US laws are applied to the EU then you would have similar prison populations. A higher prison population is not the result of better law enforcement, it is the result of more laws banning more activities.
Combine the above with vigilant anti-crime campaigns by politicians hoping to be re-elected by pandering to worried parents. Every two years more and more bills are passed extending prison sentences. This in turn keeps people in prison longer. By retaining prisoners longer, the number of exiting prisoners is reduced, all the while more prisoners enter, thus the prison population grows even faster. - punchingjudy, on 10/12/2007, -16/+36Not just "spread" democracy, America wants to _force_ democracy on the world. It has gotten to the point where democracy is a religion.
- BigKitty, on 10/12/2007, -22/+42Take a good look at it, folks, THIS is the same government that wants to spread "democracy" around the world. We're the only ones who haven't noticed that we've voted ourselves into a police state that can't even protect itself from genuine foreign threats. Pathetic and disgraceful.
After seeing what a lot of good our "democracy" has brought us, we're surprised when other countries want no part of it. - aresef, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26I'd like to take issue with one point.
"In times of national emergency, a nation must balance national security with personal liberty."
Balance? What balance? As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." There can be no trade-off. The president is not tasked with defending the country--his oath is to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," and therefore, the liberties of the people within. Saying we must trade-off liberties for security is spitting on the graves of the Founders. - AngryRepublican, on 10/12/2007, -15/+32To Jeffiek:
“51 people have unlimited control of the other 49.”
Congratulations. You have demonstrated a very basic grasp of the term “democracy”: the majority opinion rules. Except that’s not how America works. You’d also need to consider the safeguards to human freedoms placed in our constitution, so in fact we are a “liberal democracy”. “Liberal” implies that while 51% is needed to rule, the natural rights of the remaining 49% are protected, even if they don't always get their way. That’s how America works, kid. How else would you explain our advancements in women’s suffrage, equal rights, and gay rights? Simple “majority rule” does not account for this. That’s what the court system is for.
And since you are such a genius in forms of government, what would be fairer than this? Oligarchy? Anarchy? Dictatorship? How the hell can you criticize the fairness of liberal democracy? Just because you don't get to smoke pot while illegally downloading Anti-Flag CD's does not mean that you are ***** OPPRESSED!
I hope that you are still in grade school. Make sure that you enroll in a US Government and Comparative Government course to see how things work. Do this before your graduate and head off into the real world. Do this before this nation grants an undeserving turd like you the power to vote.
“Yep, that's democracy. So damned good that I *left* the US”
And where are you *living* now? Saudi Arabia? China? How is that *going* for you? You have no ***** idea how lucky you are that you were born in a democratic state. You are an ungrateful hippie bitch and I honestly hope that you spend some time in a gulag to think about what you’ve said here today. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21@theblooms:
I guess you have never been addicted to anything..
..
do you smoke cigs?
do you think that if they made them illegal tomorrow that you could quit?
It is another one of those stupid behavior laws that does absolutle nothing but ruin peoples lives and makes the drug market proffitible.
It actually criminalizes about 1/3 of adults in the US.
And noone here is having a problem with people going to jail for breaking the law..
they have a problem with the law that puts addicts in jail.
And you have to admit there is ironicy in the fact that the land of the free has the most people that are not. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16@matthewaaron:
we lead in executions as well for all civilized democracies. - oblivinated, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16@unibomber999
Efficient? Haha... 50% of crimes solved. Compared to Japan's 95%. And yet, they have a much safer society and definitely less locked up people. Good job America! - keyrat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13You are all looking at the wrong stats. It doesn't matter how many people are in jail, it matters the rate of people in jail. Also, you can't compare the US to places like Russia and China 'cause they're not on the same playing field on terms of quality of life.
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.html
Here you can see the US has a prison population rate of 738 for every 100,000 people. In contrast, England has a prison population rate of 148 for every 100,000. Spain? 145. Italy? 104. Germany? 95. France? 85.
Now, tell me there's not something wrong. All these countries are on par for safety with the US, and all of them have freedom and democracy like the US. Somehow, we have to arrest 10x as many people here on average. Something there is ***** UP. - lunarworks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13uberlord: "A) 7 million dangerous people under close government watch."
How many of those 7 million are actually dangerous offenders? Most arrests aren't like those seen on COPS. Lots of ordinary people get sent to jail for piddling things. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@matthewaaron:
yeah
Those who retain the death penalty fall into four slots.
The first is the entire Islamic world, with the exception of Turkey, which has a secular democracy, and the former Soviet Republics of Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan.
The second is India, the world’s second most populous country, whose government is in the hands of Hindu fundamentalists.
The third is what remains of the communist world: China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos and Cuba.
The fourth is a grab bag of authoritarian governments, including Guatemala, Belarus, Burma and Zimbabwe.
http://tinyurl.com/sgkuq
there is a reason i used the term democracy.. japan is one of the few democracies that still has the death penalty but they dont use it nearly as often as us.
Seriously we are one of the few democries with a death penalty.. and the world thinks we are nuts.
there are oher democaies that have it but not worth meantioning as they havent used it in 20 years. - bmson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16@Muyoso
"Glad to see a bunch of America haters in here"
- You don't have to hate, to criticize.
- If your friend smells, don't you tell him?
"We imprison innocent people"
- There are foreign citizen's in prisons in America, for crimes that they would never have been convicted in there native country.
- There are innocent people in prison, all around the world.
- innocent people have been executed in Texas. I just can't wrap my tought around it, that Texas still execute people after they made that mistake.
"We torture our prisoners"
- Guantanamo Bay. There have been American airplanes going trough Europeans airports, to transport prisoners to countries that allow torture.
- These plains went trough Iceland last year and that's not legal in Iceland (US government broke Icelandic laws on our ground). When an Icelandic new agency began to take picture of these plains and pilots, the US government stop these flights in Iceland. I know that was also the case in Norway and Germany.
We execute people for no reason
- There is no reason for execution, in many countries.
- Texas executed mentally disabled person, few months ago. You should be able to find the news about it on cnn.com
We imprison only people who were committing non crimes (drugs)
- You should prison people for drug use, it is illegal and in my opinion should be. But I know that many people don't agree with me. And most of theme are probably Americans.
We live in a police state
- Your airport security are the worst in the world. It's terrible to travel trough the US airports.
P.s.
I love to travel to the US of A. Been there 6 times. When to Baltimore, Florida, Washington, New York, Ohio (Athens) and I'm going to New York 14th of January.
But I still dislike allot of things in American society - kokorhekkus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13It's not so interesting to compare with Russia or China. A far more interesting comparision is between the US and the rest of the industrialized countries in the west. There's astoundingly major difference between the number of prisoners per million people yet the judicial systems and laws have a lot in common. Surely this most indicate some kind of underlying problem. Because these countries aren't overrun by violence, corruption and crime in general more than the US is.
A couple of years back I crunched the numbers comparing the US and Sweden to see what happened if Sweden would have the same amount of prisoners per capita than the US. Employment would drop, in my conservative estimate, around 1.5%. So how big a part of the US penal system is actually a part of the unemployment program? It's not like they're removing large amounts of skilled workers either. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+181.5 million people imprisoned in China? Yeah, riiiiight.
At the very least we can add another 500000 political prisoners to that, as they're officially not in prison, oh no, just being forcibly re-educated in work camps. - stampy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offenses."
This is solely the result of the "War on Drugs". The lessons of Prohibition were learned by so few, and naturally history repeats itself. Not only are drug arrests up, but so is the violent crime associated with such a thriving black market. Take away the black market, and you take away the violence associated with it. If you want to prosecute those who smoke pot or do cocaine, you need to arrest every man and woman that drinks alcohol and smokes tobacco as well. The only problem with that, is that you wouldn't have enough of the population left to guard the prisons. - musicmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Amazing, somehow nobody mentioned that jewel at the heart of the US judicial system: the "plea bargain". Confess or you are punished double!
In other countries you countries you can get credit for being repentant, but you are not forced to confess. - Adamande, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15@chriskzoo
"Forcing democracy on Japan, Germany, and Italy worked out pretty well. "
Germany and Italy were democracies before the second world war. The US had very little do do with that. I think America is a great country, but I'm not willing to falsify history to inflate that greatness. - BasharTeg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13jeffiek: "You must be joking, or delusional. All that is necessary for those 49 to lose their rights is for the other 51 to simply change the definition of rights. Happens all the time."
Are you retarded? The rights in question are constitutional rights, which the Supreme Court has had a decent, if not stellar, track record of defending, and therefore are not changeable by 51 theoretical people, or 51% of votes. If your IQ test results are top 2%, apply your brilliance towards examining the process involved in constitutional amendments, and realize that that is a safe guard against the majority hanging the minority out to dry on fundamental rights. Constitutional amendments don't "happen all the time."
It's true that legislation and regulation passes all the time, for which there are usually unhappy minorities in disagreement. But there is no alternative to that except for non-action, which essentially means non-government. In other words, if the government only passed laws everyone agreed with, nothing would ever pass and issues would never be resolved. Our democracy isn't a pure democracy (if fact federally it's actually a republic, not a democracy). Our system defines a way for the majority to rule, but places limits on what they can do to impact the fundamental freedoms of the minority.
As far as "people had the right to smoke pot, now they don't" which apparently follows with "therefore rights of the minority aren't protected," your logic is quite weak. Having a system where the human rights and freedoms of the minority are protected from the majority means that the minority won't be denied fundamental rights, of which the right to smoke marijuana is not one of them (regardless of anyone's position on legalization).
And if you're in the upper 2% of IQ testing, you must be in the lower 2% of self-esteem testing and dead last in rational debate and logic. Appealing to your own authority, established only by your claims of score returns in a non-specific general intelligence test, which even if we accepted your claimed score as fact has no bearing on this particular subject, is a logical fallacy and simply pathetic. - Frayed_Knot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus
- renzien, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@angryrepublican,
"We are the largest military force in the world and WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE."
Why don't they believe you, then? That statement would be fine if the people, not just the treaties, felt the same way. Friendship requires mutual consent. "I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU" doesn't work by itself. - erikbra81, on 10/12/2007, -2/+107 million corresponds to more than 3% of Americans who are in jail right now. So how large a share have at some point done time? I'm from Sweden, and here you immediately considered a really dodgy character if you've ever been in jail, but if, say 10% of Americans have prison experience, I guess it might be more socially accepted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I agree and I'm shouting from right in NC, one of the more conservative states. We aren't all hypocrites. There's just a really vocal minority of them.
- hopfrog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The Straight Dope had an article about this:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040206.html
While it does not dispute the U.S's high rate of incarceration, it does put some facts into context. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@uhbeta:
I am saying someone addicted to a drug wont quit simply because it is illegal
I am not talking about how they became addicted
and you can become addcited to legal drugs
and then get busted for using them illegally
My analogy isnt flaw, my clarity of communication to you is.
Prisons do not reform drug users, the dont prevent the crime of drug use and it creates a black market.
And no I do not think prisons should be a place were we dump our addicts.
Even ones addicted to illegal drugs.
And before someone whines... "he is soft on drugs" the world isnt black and white and just cause i dont want them to go to prison, doesnt mean we should ignore the problem. But if something isnt helping the problem, why do we do it?
If you are building a house and one guys spends the day directing traffic in the street, why would you keep him if it does nothing to help you build the house?
That is the simple point i am trying to make. That prisons is useless for addicts and a waste of our tax money and just makes things much much worse.
a better stat would be on other countries and their drug rehab. - bmson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Iran, North Korea, Burkina Faso?
Not...
Norway, Iceland, Germany, Scotland, England, Holland, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Ireland, Poland, France, Spain, Italy... the list can go on... - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yup. This is the very worst of our justice system. The actual truth is less important than speed and cost of processing. Most people that get caught in the system, innocent or not, basically are asked to play the odds, Vegas style.
- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The reality behind these numbers is that, in America, incarceration is a corporate run growth industry. Period. All corporate industries must grow to survive and this means that it needs more prisoners. This is why GE (one of the largest private prison owners), through lobbying and it's child, NBC, have consistently promoted and helped expand the "war on drugs" and the perception that crime is rampant and that our neighbors are dangerous. This trend is going global.
To the rest of the world... You better watch out. - wuori, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@Homunculiheaded:
Please spare me the racial BS. I live in South Carolina, and great companies here are dying to hire black people so that they can increase diversity and simply be more of a part of the community. The problem isn't companies not hiring black people, but rather there not being enough black candidates for positions. If you really want to blame something for keeping blacks from succeeding and staying out of jail, blame black pop-culture, which promotes drug-use, poor-grammar, and other traits that potential employers (rightfully) scoff at.
I hate it when people pull the race card to take focus off of the real problems. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@theblooms:
so you dont feel sorry for Rush? who was perscribe a highly addcited drug, where a docter did NOT adaquately moniter his progress to make sure he didnt leave treatment as an addict?
Do you think Rush wanted to be an addict?
Many many addicts are created by doctors.. and it have very little to do with choice. - AngryRepublican, on 10/12/2007, -12/+18To Jeffiek:
“You must be joking, or delusional. All that is necessary for those 49 to lose their rights is for the other 51 to simply change the definition of rights. Happens all the time.”
Yeah, sometimes it does happen. Thank goodness we have the courts to overturn those flagrant trespasses of human rights. Again, that is why the Supreme Court exists. It’s a pretty good system and I wonder, again, what you would suggest as an alternative. I don’t think that there is one, and we are still better off than a non-democratic state where such institutions don't even exist. Try explaining "minority rights" to Saudi Arabia or China.
It sounds to me like your anger should really be directed at your fellow Americans who disagree with your opinions, not at democracy in general. And if that’s the case, go somewhere else where people share your views. I’m sorry that you can’t always get what you want, but thems the breaks.
“I've just had the good fortune (?) to be in a position see government for what it really is - a gang of criminals.”
I hate to burst your bubble, but no politician is an angel, and almost every democratic nation thinks that their politicians are corrupt. It’s the nature of the system that those who vie for power are often the ones who you’d least want in power. It’s also the nature of people like you to focus in on the isolated wrongdoings and not analyze the reasons for their actions.
The purpose of our democratic system is to restrict leaders as best we can and hold them accountable to the people. You can bitch as much as you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that every 2 years Americans go to the polls to vote many of these a$$-hats back into office. There is no one to blame but ourselves here. But then again, you don’t sound like one who takes blame easily.
“Now about the "pot" thing. At one time people had the right to smoke it, now they don't. Guess that shoots a hole in your theory about "protection of rights".”
Boo-f*cking-hoo. Once upon a time, people could drink booze, then they couldn’t, now they can again. In time, marijuana will probably be legalized. A new study was just done dispelling the “gateway drug” myth. I can’t predict the future, but the drug has already been taking the steps towards decriminalization. Don’t complain because it isn’t happening quickly enough for your tastes. And no, it doesn’t “shoot a hole in my theory” because in the big picture we are still better off here than in Singapore, where you’ll get beaten for chewing gum in public. You are such a nit-picking moron. I have trouble believing that half a century hasn’t bought you a bit more sensibility. - LKBM, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Some of you are pathetic! The United States is one of the best countries in the world.
Do you know what the Chinese government does to their prisoners?"
When your defence of the US is 'we're better than China'...
I wish people would stop taking famously bad countries and saying we're better than then, like it's proving some fabulous point. Yeah, we are better than China in the vast majority of concerns. The people saying the US is the worst nation in the world are wrong. Shocking. That's a far cry from being the best in the world. Maybe we are. 'Better than China', though, is not much of an argument for that claim.
Convince me that we're better than Sweden and you'll have done well. We have some of the best principles in the world, even if we don't follow them too well a lot of the time. Please don't set the bar at China. We're above /that/, certainly. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7my theory is americans are afraid too much of being attacked by others, being "the superpower" and all, so they become overprotective, tense, etc.
but they shouldn't feel alone. they aren't "the superpower and the rest are tiny little countries conspiring against them" like some far right wing fanatics think. they happen to be currently the most powerful of the big powers and share a significant part of the blame and undeserved blame. - egrumling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Much of it (as the article states) is due to the war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentence guidelines. Much of the discretion given judges has been taken away by congress and state governments.
Another problem is the loss of large pools of local police. Yes, there are more cops than there were in the 1970s and 80s, but far fewer than there were in the 20s and 30s. Labor costs big money over a long time, cruisers are cheap (and therefore easier to justify). Hire local cops, station them in the area where they grew up (on foot), and you'll see more kids respecting the law and not fearing police. This will make a difference (in about 10 years, though).
Prisons are big employers. Gotta fill 'em with something. Great public works projects in poor, rural areas.
A big step in the right direction would be to reform drug/vice laws. The 1950s were an aberration in American history, yet we are told otherwise. Before the 60's, we're told, no one had sex before marriage, or for anything but procreation (certainly not for money!). There were no morphine addicts, and if they were, they were the worst scum, preying on little girls who took the wrong route home from the library. And poverty was due to the excess partying of the 1920's not bad monetary policy and climate change.
Yep. If we can just get back to the 1950's, with poodle skirts, big tail fins on cars, and lynchings... fix us right up. - Homunculiheaded, on 10/12/2007, -28/+34I hear all this talk about drug laws, but absolutely none about institutionalized racism. Go look at the statistics, 1 in 5 black men has spent time in jail, this is the real BS. This is the war on 'drugs', but it's not a bunch of middle class, white pot smokers in there. I personally find this racism to boarder on genocide, and if you don't know how works here goes:
Young black men, who already have a hard enough time finding a well paying jobs, get thrown in prison for a few years for some minor drug offense. But this isn't the end of it. When they get out what kind of job opportunities do you think they have? Okay so they have limited resources to provide for themselves or their families. Also remember that federal student loans are not available for anyone convicted of a drug offense, there goes any possibility of college. Also prison becomes a 'great' place to learn about alternative ways of making a living and a place to meet some real positive role models.
So you can see how easily one life is messed up because of BS drug offenses, then consider the effects of this on the children of this men? Father's in prison, and considering the circumstances I'm sure their out look on life is less the optimistic. Follow this pattern for a few generations and you can destroy a culture simply by dismantling the fundamental support structure of any culture: family
And please don't say 'well don't do the crime if you can do the time' I grew up in a upper-middle class white community, I knew kids with heroin addictions who had actually punched cops and never saw the inside of court-room not to mention a prison. - flink405, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8In Germany you never see police cars patrolling the streets like in the U.S. looking for illegal activity.
The German police are all sitting in their warm offices waiting for their shift to be over.
One time we called the police regarding stolen property - they would not come out; not interested in finding the thief - "no one was hurt, so no reason for them to come out". They said they would send a letter to report the stolen property to the insurance company.
If the police were as visible and on the job like in the US there would be lots more criminals in jail in Germany. - there, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Bottom line:
The US has the most prisoners in the world and that stat even holds per capita (which is really scary if you look the nations we are comparable to).
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita
Despite the patriotic hoopla by some posters this is in fact an indicator of LESS freedom than other nations. (at least in this respect). Arguing we have more prisoners as an indicator of more freedom is absurd.
What I find interesting is Canada (which is next door) and has the same demographics seems to be doing much better than us (per capita). It has FIVE TIMES LESS prisoners per capita.... an ASTRONOMICAL difference. For example murder rates...
Capitals
-------------
Washington, DC 45.8 / 100 000 (2002)
Ottawa 1.1 / 100 100 (2006) (No that is not a typo. Its that low)
Largest Cities
-------------
New York City 7.3 (2002)
Toronto 1.8 (2006)
National (1998- 2000)
---------------
US. 42.802
Canada 14.9063
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#canada
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050721/d050721a.htm
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
So what's our problem?
IMHO too much authoritarian rightwing thinking destroys freedom.
It breeds a society off extreme haves and extreme have nots. Thus the state must use force when people inevitably seek to overcome those hurdles. Rousseau/Hobbes social contract (which was the backbone behind our constitution) is starting to fall apart due to the rightwing fanaticism that gripped this country post-Soviet era.. It isn't even rich people that are to blame. Soros, Gates, Buffet all feel the same on the issue... but America keeps voting for far rightwingers (against their own interests)
What some people just don't get is life is primarily about survival itself. One way or another force is going to be used if something wants to exist. Whether it is an an organized fashion by the state by proxy on our behalf (through taxation) or by the desperate acts of "freelancers" that just can't function by our particular rules at some moment of time... it'll happen.
The problem I find with pure capitalists and pure communists is that they are obsessed with moral absolutes. For communists everyone MUST be equal or they are pure evil. So they suppress freedom to make us equal. For laissez-faire types everyone must be good at survival (by their rules) or they are evil. So they suppress freedom to protect their assets.
People that live in the middle ground (the real world) tend to be more empirically driven by issues. Conditions of the moment give advantages to some individuals over others so some are better at earning a living than others. Not everyone can be fabulously weathy. In a mixed economy/socialism we try to make up for this by making sure they at least receive the minimum requirements to maintain the dignity and life that all human beings require to function within a given society. Nothing more...nothing less.
So what does this mean?
The New Deal saved America from capitalism and communism. Lets not throw away the 60 years off successes that created. Don't let rightwingers manipulate you with fear by suggesting the soviets are similar to Democrats. JFK almost went to nuclear war with the commies. I'd even argue modern Democrats have become rightwing by international standards.
IMHO we need to stop voting for conservatives across the board. They are violent, racist, greedy and incompetent as national leaders. They have cost us our safety, our international reputation, and our average quality of living.
Vote left America. Do so... or you will continue to suffer the consequences. - vampares, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I spent 5 1/2 months in jail for bogus charges. I felt like that was a criminal thing. A serious crime. Someone who was not -- is not -- a criminal, by any standard, being locked up with criminals.
Do you feel as though that is the price I have to pay for your feeling of security? When the Law measures up to the crime then you might find that a concrete cell is by far the safest place for you and your fears. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6#AngryRepublican
Two weeks ago in the netherlands I voted SP, i.e. socialist party. This party got 25/150 votes, up from 12 votes in parliament, more than a doubling. Before you go all ad hominem, SP will more than likely be part of the next coalition and untill recently upheld the belief NATO should be disassembled. SP wants holland to succeede from NATO, or wants a role for NATO where the US has a markedly reduced power.
Frankly, I do not want the "help" of the US. Culturally I have a lot more ties with the western background of the US than, say Russia, middle east or China, but the US culture has become meaningless by its complete domination by corporate culture. I equate that cultural dominance of corporate entities and a corporation-swayed government to be just as bad as nazi'sm, stalinist communism, fascism or emperialist chauvinism.
Think what you may, that america is a force for good and all - from over here it doesn't. And I am not the only one saying this. In the last six years we've seen something horrendous happen. A formerly good and proud country swell up and its gut burst, a foul blend of black pitch and maggots came bursting out. With bush, his neocon cabal and all these vicious republicans, apocalyptophiles, wingnuts we receives a very distastefull new look into the bowels of this nice america and it left us gagging and holding our nose.
America is sick and rotten to the bone with sentiments and undercurrents that are the worst like we've ever seen in history. We in Europe know very well where this kind of sewage leads.
I warn you all for a reason - as a warning. - argh44z, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ PowerCow
Eh? The Death Penalty in India is extremely rare.
There were 4 people total killed since 1983 when the Indian Supreme Court virtually banned it.
Also the Hindu "extremists" were voted out a while ago. The current government is the Congress Party, which is completely secular. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Have you actually visited anywhere outside of the US?
Thought not. -
Show 51 - 100 of 229 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is