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74 Comments
- Junior612, on 05/16/2009, -2/+56I didn't know 'financial panic' was a crime.
- candre23, on 05/16/2009, -0/+40Although the Times Online didn't bother to mention it, it should be noted that NO ACTUAL PANIC OCCURRED. This guy posts a 96 char. message on twitter criticizing a bank, and he is arrested, tried, convicted and jailed in less than 24 hours. This is a gross (but unsurprising) abuse of poser on the part of the Guatemalan government. They're a crooked bunch of *****, and they're trying like hell to keep people from calling them out on it.
The police are also arresting street vendors selling DVDs of the slain attorney's death speech, and anybody else that is criticizing the corrupt government. - Betrayer, on 05/16/2009, -4/+44***** Guatemala.
all banks in the world are corrupt... pull all your money out now
(Americas freedom of speech FTW) - Ebacherville, on 05/16/2009, -3/+36SUggesting a protest is a crime.. I protest alot of companies by not buying there products or services because I think they suck.. Guess Im a criminal..
- drmangrum, on 05/16/2009, -0/+22Guatemala is not the US. In many Central and South American countries, nearly anything can be against the law, it all depends on who you piss off.
- TobiasParker, on 05/16/2009, -1/+22Like using words that exist?
- inactive, on 05/16/2009, -4/+23Banks operate in a constant state of bankruptcy, they just call it fractional reserve banking. The money that you put in that bank has been lent out by the banks. If even a small minority of depositors show up to claim their money this fraud is exposed and the bank collapses. It's bankers that should be arrested for fraud, not this protester for exposing it.
- yerdaddy, on 05/16/2009, -2/+12Banks could still make loans without fractional reserves. They'd just need to actually have the money first.
- LaughingMan89, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8That depends; do you live in Guatemala?
- inactive, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8How many people followed suit? Two, or three maybe? Banrural must be pissing its pants right now. The twitter revolution is out to get them.
- annenk38, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8Boycotts may yet have a chance. Imagine the possibilities! We can harness the power of the internet to target specific companies for bankruptcy. We don't need to bankrupt all companies whose policies we don't agree with. We could nominate a set of companies as candidates for bankruptcy, hold a vote to select a "company of the week". This should create a chilling effect throughout the industry, which should, in theory, force these companies to revise their policies. And this is perfectly legal, at least in the United States.
- inactive, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8Maybe America should not have over-thrown Guatemalias democratically elected leader in 1954?.
- blankmedia, on 05/16/2009, -5/+11***** THE RIAA
- unusualbob, on 05/16/2009, -1/+7You say that as if you assume things couldnt be better, we only have this country because we didn't agree with our rulers to begin with. If we don't question our government it will become like Guatemala.
- grubeater, on 05/16/2009, -7/+12And that's why I don't tweet -- I know I'd get my ass arrested in under a week for something stupid...
- juk3box, on 05/16/2009, -2/+7Let's kill more banks like this. Fractional-reserve banking leaves this "bank run" vulnerability open to all banks. It's a great way to stop bailouts. Just withdraw from one bank, then re-deposit into another bank. Heck, people can create a whole new bank from scratch with this method. And the big banks can't claim, "too big to fail" because a new bank would be built up when the funds are re-deposited. Just withdraw then redeposit. A great strategy for a strong and fair economy.
- akhomestead, on 05/17/2009, -0/+4you'd be surprised what's a crime in a free society. You don't even own your body. The government decides what your allowed to put in it.
- inactive, on 05/16/2009, -0/+4I think the accepted plural form is 'tweets'.
- scuba7183, on 05/16/2009, -1/+5oh snap
- bm8631, on 05/16/2009, -3/+7Hahaha! Not sure how that applies, but... dugg.
- norman619, on 05/16/2009, -1/+4The internet revolution hasn't hit there yet. You do undertsand how how poor they are right? This was just an excuse for the authorities to arrest this man. He pissed off the wrong people obviously.
- christianboutin, on 05/16/2009, -0/+3I guess that won't help in making Guatemala a shining example of a free society.
- yerdaddy, on 05/16/2009, -1/+4I guess it just boils down to How Much Guatemala you'd like in your USA.
- annenk38, on 05/16/2009, -2/+5Fractional reserve banking worked for decades because the loans were "secured", that is, the money was borrowed against property, such as a house, a car, etc. The money wasn't created out of thin air, it merely reflected the country's industrial output. The derivatives market destroyed all of that: the money could now be borrowed against securities that were themselves not "secured" but instead were "insured", or in case of AIG, catastrophically under-insured. This creates a feedback loop in the system -- that's why Warren Buffet called the derivatives financial "weapons off mass destruction".
- juk3box, on 05/16/2009, -0/+3there is more than one way for a bank to make loans. The problem right now is that people still have a claim to their funds even thought the funds have already been spent. Depositors can a make a deal with a bank to not withdrawal until a certain date. This gets rid of the bank promise to pay even though the funds aren't available. In an honest system, the bank will only tell a depositor they have money only when the money is actually there. The current system is not honest.
- norman619, on 05/16/2009, -3/+6Especially people in Guatemala.
- jamdogg, on 05/16/2009, -1/+3Right. Except the banks can loan out up to TWENTY times the money you deposit with them.
- HueyFreeman02, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Wait..isn't this how the Great Depression started?
Everyone lost confidence in the economy, so they ALL pulled their money out at the SAME time, raping the economy to death? - u8eR, on 05/16/2009, -2/+4This is not Twitter's fault.
- booyahbitch, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2HELL YEAH!
- TobiasParker, on 05/16/2009, -2/+4Sucks for you the servers are housed in Guatemala.
- inactive, on 05/17/2009, -1/+3I propose a 100% gold standard. That all "demand deposits" be covered. The bank could still coordinate lending, instead it could use "time deposits". Depositors would agree to to redeem their gold until after a certain amount of time. Under that system there would be no fraud.
- robertisaar, on 05/16/2009, -1/+3even though it has nothing to do with the story, it does deserve repeating
***** THE RIAA - Geheg3D, on 05/16/2009, -2/+4LOL RITE CAUSE BECAUSE ITS WORSE OTHER PLACES MEANS ITS A-OK HERE
Stupid *****. - Nerys, on 05/17/2009, -0/+2Many of you are simply wrong and have no idea how banks operate.
You deposit money.
The Bank loans out money.
This is correct. the ASSUMPTION that the money loaned out is the same money you deposited is a MYTH/LIE intentionally put forth to let you come to said conclusion.
This assumption is INCORRECT. there is ZERO connection between the money you deposit and the money they loan out.
When the bank writes a mortgage for say $100,000 you would assume they are loaning out $100,000 worth of depositors money.
this is simply not correct. They are FABRICATING the money. Quite literally "wishing" the the money into existence out of thin air.
When a bank makes what is called a "high power money" deposit into the federal reserve they are allowed to loan out 9 times that much money. This is what fractional reserve banking is.
Now when you deposit you DO increase what they can loan out. (they get to COUNT 1/9th of your deposit as high powered money and can then loan out that value 9 more times again.)
why 1/9th? because the source of that money was someone elses highpower deposit so it was already multiplied by 9 so you reduce by 9times and can then reloan again.
but this this is simply PERMISSION to loan that value. it is NOT SECURED by your deposit HENCE why you are able to draw on and use that money any time you please.
Our financial system LITERALLY depends on "debt"
now banks are required to have deposits equal to X% of what they loan out. but this is not because they are loaning out your money this is to MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION that the loans are FROM depositors funds.
Our financial system is DEPENDANT on debt. No debt NO loans.
your signature on the loan bill mortgage car loan whatever CREATES the money. Nothing else.
Everything else is smoke and mirrors. They are creating money out of thin air (literally)
For a MUCH better understanding of this than I can put forth here google a video called
MONEY AS DEBT
Its an enlightening experience.
Embezzlement IS a daily practice for banks but not because of fractional reserve banking. Those $35 compounded fees are the very definition of embezzlement.
Ever notice most banks sort your charges LARGEST TO SMALLEST ?
there is a reason for this. Lets say you buy a few things worth $5 $15 and $10
$30 You have $30 in the bank so your ok right?
later that night a credit card payment you forgot about clears $30
Ouch oops you forgot but the bank was nice and cleared it for you and slapped you with a $35 NSF fee. (MORE than the god damned payment!)
no its not that simple. Here is where the embezzlement comes into play
embezzlement can be described as such. You are in control of someone elses money. you "manipulate" or "play" with the figures records whatever to arrange it so some of that money comes to you.
THAT is embezzlement.
the bank now RE WRITES HISTORY
in stead of $5 $15 $10 and then $30 and a single $35 fee
they put the $30 payment FIRST then the $15 then the $10 then the $5
so now your $30 payment eats up all your funds (you had $30 in the bank) and clears with no fee.
you then get nailed for $105 as all 3 of the smaller transactions now are NSF.
that is the very definition of embezzlement. This is why charges have a PENDING period even though they are deducted immediately. the longer they are pending the higher the chance of a low balance account holder momentarily going negative they they POST it all so manipulate events to increase the fee's thats why sometimes things post right away and sometimes as long as 10 days. they WANT you to over draft so they can multiply it.
some now even NSF you on PENDING charges !!
Its also a racket. The definition of a racket is when you demand payment for a problem and YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CREATED the problem to be solved or paid for.
Think tough guy walks in and says you should pay me protection money. He then proceeds to rough you up or rough your business up to make it clear what will happen if you refuse.
HE CREATED the problem (roughing you up or your place) and then demands you solve his self created problem by paying him. This is racketeering IE a racket.
Is that not what the bank just did? they created the problem (permitting charges when NSF funds available and reordering transactions) for you to solve with "over draft protection" which is off course NOT FREE but cheaper than NSF fee's Yeah ! - nepidae, on 05/16/2009, -1/+3this is why you don't tweet? christ...
- Nerys, on 05/17/2009, -0/+2well its actually 9 times 1/9th what you deposit but in reality its a lot higher.
you see that money they loan out is they 1/9th'd and then realoans 9 times again and again. sure its different banks but with the fed its a closed loop system. So in reality fictional money is loaned HUNDREDS of times over and over again. - Tenareth, on 05/17/2009, -1/+3Yes, which is why the Press is being controlled by the White House to only talk about the upswings on the market and mostly ignore the downswings. I'm not too sure the ends justify the means though, as it tramples on Freedom of Press.
- roccanet, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2this should not be a crime in a free society
- BlacklabelSAR, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1And even now it is made to appear that the Federal Reserve is the hero that is saving the economy....
The illusion is that governments control banks, when in fact it is the exact reverse. - BlacklabelSAR, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1Here is the Money As debt link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-255015645 ...
It is well worth watching. - phlinde, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1Yup, that is why we are moving over to ING Direct. They actually do this strange thing called "Customer Service." Isn't that just some theoretical term? I know that I have seen it someplace. Seriously, check them out. They rock!
- akhomestead, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1Don't ***** with the banks.
- Nerys, on 05/17/2009, -1/+2Its interesting. In most cultures until a short time ago (decades to a century or so) there was an EVIL practice in existance. MOST religions SHUNED it as evil a sin. So did most cultures.
its called USURY. this is the practice of making money on others people's money. Interest etc..
Interesting that this word has VANISHED from our lexicon once powerful people realized how filthy rich they could get from it.
but that was not enough they got greedy and here we are today. ruined.
I think the old cultures had it right. Usury is evil and should be shunned and illegal.
I think the banks should be eliminated. Government run NO interest or ultra low interest to pay to run things.
Think about something for a moment. You get a $100,000 loan for a house. 6.7% APR 30 years fixed. Good deal right?
do you realize your ACTUAL interest rate is WELL OVER 100%
how can a more than 100% interest rate be legal? don't believe me? do the math yourself. Google a loan calculator and punch in 6.7% apr 30 year fixed on a principle of $100,000
you will PAY BACK (IIRC I could be off a little here) $238,000 after 30 years.
thats $100,000 principal $138,000 interest.
Explain to me how this is even remotely legal or moral?
its a virtually ZERO risk loan (no abusing the market yourself does not count as RISK as thats your fault ie think sub prime lending etc..)
Why zero risk? its a fraking house. its not going anywhere and INSURANCE is mandatory. if you don't have insurance the bank will GET insurance and charge you for it.
So where is the risk to justify a 138% interest rate?
Its utterly criminal. and they get to WISH that $100,000 into existence. YOU have to work to pay it back. - trymene, on 05/17/2009, -1/+2My personal accepted form is "*****."
- cesclaveria, on 05/18/2009, -0/+1yes, you shouldn't have.
But, I guess we had enough time to recover and we haven't. - esc27, on 05/18/2009, -0/+1I'd love to say "I'm glad that can't happen here" (USA) but some of the charges against him sound vaguely like our libel/defamation laws. Only a matter of time before Americans start getting sued on twitter.
- hellbent187, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1What a BS charge...
- annenk38, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1@Nerys: it's actually 9 times 1/10th, and in a closed loop it forms a bounded geometric (convergent) series: .9 + .9^2+.9^3+.9^4 .... < 9. The sum is always less than the least upper bound (9), no matter how many iterations of loaning takes place. If all loans were secured by property, we won't have any problems, but if the money is borrowed against other borrowed money, such as securities on wall street we have a major problem because we have no guarantee the series is convergent anymore.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -
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