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96 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+43It seems that, despite Richard Dawkins' efforts, Christianity will not be killed.
- sloof70, on 10/12/2007, -13/+40"Ironically, Christianity tends to thrive under persecution."
Then why don't Christians thrive on Digg? - DrakeGTA, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Exactly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Yun
People like him are quickly becoming the new face of Christianity, and as an American Christian, I must say, they are doing a much better job then most of us are. - mc7winkie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Ha, thats funny. What do you mean religion can't survive very long? Most religions have been around longer and lasted longer than any of the great empires such as Rome.
- othersomethings, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22Sloof:
Digg is persecution? See, I was under the impression that there was pain and fear involved in the whole process.
If being considered unintelligent is the biggest persecution I have to face, then I'm pretty sure I can handle it. - siszam, on 10/12/2007, -20/+36In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can mortal man do to me? (Ps 56:3-4 NIV)
1 John 3:1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. - jfpwr, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23Jesus cures aids in africa...
at least thats what the misionaries told me , and after they told me that god said using condoms are bad... - sloof70, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Considering Richard Dawkins is a luminary in a belief that only 1% of Americans hold, I don't think he will kill Christianity any time soon.
- Sukino, on 10/12/2007, -18/+31Of course, religions are most successful in uneducated and poor countries and for obvious reasons.
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16I know lots of people with graduate degrees who are devout Christians (myself included).
- kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@sloof70
I'm thriving on digg, and I'm a christain... - dshPls, on 10/12/2007, -16/+24Not sure if you've seen Jesus Camp, but these whackos not only target the poor, but defenseless, innocent children who don't know any better.
- rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -12/+20"You're right. There are no atheists in fox holes. :)"
As an atheist who was in a foxhole, who is the son of an atheist who was in a foxhole, and who shared a stage in Washington DC with so many atheists who were in fox holes that the stage couldn't fit us all, let me say to you that you are an ignorant hateful bigot.
Even though we are barred from marching in veteran's parades under an atheist veteran banner, even though we are excluded from the benefits of belonging to the VFW, which demands an oath of loyalty to a montheistic god in order to qualify for membership, and even though my father had to fight to have no religious affiliation on his dog tag, only to suffer the slings and arrows of ignorant religionists who then turned to him for succor when it was time to stitch up their ugly Christian wounds, we too serve, we too, bleed, and we, too, die for a country that openly denounces our beliefs and marginalizes our contributions to society.
For you to make smiley faces at the thought that the only thing that can bring a reasonable person to god is fear of imminent death, let me add that you are a poor reference for the merits of religiosity.
Ignorance is remedial, but hateful bigotry, particularly when fueled by self-righteous religious fervor, is usually terminal. - othersomethings, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I rather expected that. So yes.
On the other hand, I consider you a smartass. Is that ok? - freff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Possibly as soon as the very next Pope. There was serious talk this past time of African and South American candidates. The face of the Catholic Church is changing, and even the old white guys at the Vatican have recognized it.
- Mitthrawnuruodo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11@devlo
"Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance." - James 1:2-3
Make me a eunuch, destroy my math skills, and teach me all you want; It still won't alter my faith in the God who offers to save me from a much worse fate. If anything, it'll make me appreciate it all the more. - bettermentflux, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Interesting article. One of the trends it points out is how the more demanding (fundamental) strains of Christianity are attracting the greatest number of new members. Pentecostals and other "revivalists" now number half a billion people, representing 25% of all Christians in the world. That's just fascinating to me. I wonder if the "1st World" will recognize some of the popular forms that Christianity will take in the 3rd World a few short decades from now.
I also wonder how long before the Catholic church choses its first non-caucasian Pope.
Religion evolves. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Been there. Done that.
Pope Victor I (189 to 199)
Pope Miltiades (310/311 to 314)
Pope Gelasius I (492 to 496)
The Roman Catholic Church rulez! - dvpdziyn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7some posters note that some people rely on faith because everything else has failed. The assumption is, of course, that because the believers are poor or weak or simple or addle in some way, that their faith is just a desperate psychological need.
It is logically possible that the faith of these people meets a psychological need, but that does not invalidate the faith they have. Further, it has no bearing on whether or not there is or is not a valid object in which they place their faith. - stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14all religion thrives under persecution. people can take everything away from you but faith in God is something you can personally hold on to. its a psychological thing. rich muslims may fund the militant movement, but its poor young people off the ghetto streets that end up doing the real dirty work, because they have nothing else but God
- rblinne, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The NAS survey was self-selecting was done by mail and had a 50% response rate. Elaine Ecklund of Rice University surveyed 1646 scientists who were professors at elite universities. Roughly 2/3 believed in God. The variance was not based on intelligence or education but on the speciality. 38% of natural scientists did not believe in God versus 31% of social scientists. A survey done by the University of Chicago 76% of medical doctors believed in the existence of God. In 1998, NAS president Bruce Alberts said: "There are many very outstanding members of this academy who are very religious people, people who believe in evolution, many of them biologists."
In 1996, Edward Larson and Larry Witham compared how religious scientists were with a similar survey done in 1916. Here's a table for comparison purposes:
Topic 1916 1996
Believe in a personal God 41.8 39.3
Disbelief 41.5 45.3
Doubt or Agnostic 16.7 14.5
Sources: http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050811_scientists_god.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v386/n6624/pdf/386435a0.pdf - BadassCheese, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18I watched Jesus Camp like a week ago. It scared me *****. It is a must watch for all.
- PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ reddevil3: "The way you people talk is just creepy."
With the digg name you chose for yourself, that doesn't surprise many of us here.
Matt 4:10 - digginestdogg, on 10/12/2007, -18/+21I am not surpised: the strength of religious belief is directly proportional to ignorance and illiteracy.
- TheNakedChef, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well, I'm Polish and I find your grouping of people even more insulting!
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@digginestdogg:
"That just goes to show you how effective branwashing is to little children"
And speaking of ignorance... you don't know me but you think you know my story? THAT is pure ignorance, indeed.
I didn't become a Christian until I was an adult. I was not raised in a Christian home. - EatingPie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@sloof70: "Then why don't Christians thrive on Digg?"
Two answers.
First, if the majority of people using digg are atheists, then Christian posts would tend to be dugg down, or receive no diggs at all. Simply a matter of numbers.
Second, modern Christianity has done a TERRIBLE job of conveying logical and intellectual arguments -- yes, they do exist, and NO, Intelligence Design doesn't count. So, whether someone's atheist, agnostic, or open-minded seeker, the lack of intellectual discourse from the Christian perspective makes it tough for them to digg up Christian posts.
-Pie - thePuck77, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8What, you mean developing countries with poor infrastructure and education are more likely to embrace religion?
No! You don't say! - buadach, on 10/12/2007, -12/+14Where there is a lack of basic education the lies of religion seem to fill the void.
- aschocobo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2ya know, your post would've made a lot more sense had you not bashed the guy for his experiences/point of view.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@Geekbeard
"Those are North Africans. Just in case you are interested, many North Africans at that time were white Europeans (like Greeks), or at least what many consider non-black (like Semitic, Egyptian, what have you)."
1800 years after the fact when Rome was crumbling and before Muslim conquests you cannot rule out that these Pope's were black as the ace of spades.
@chicbicyclist
"I consider North Africans(with Indians and West Asians[middle easterners]) ethnically "Caucasian", or white."
Cauciasian refers to people who live in the Caucasus region of southwest Asia, like Armenians and Georgians. It has nothing to do with Indians or Arabs. The incorrect broader term you use was invented by the Politically Correct movement in the 70's and 80's in the US. You shouldn't use it. As a person of Polish descent I find being grouped with Middle Easterners to be thoroughly insulting. - chicbicyclist, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7It's true though.
More often than not, religious fundamentalism or a hybrid of it takes is more popular in less developed countries and as you go up the economic ladder, the proportion of religious observance dwindles.
Even though some people think some zealotry exist, religious observance in Western Europe, Australia, Japan and North America is nowhere as near fervent as in the rest of the world. I know, since I grew up in a third world country, then moved to the states in my early teens. - rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You respond to:
"My post was simply pointing out the fact that the research currently shows a negative correlation between academic attainment/scientific achievement and religiosity. It made no other points"
With this nonsequitur:
"Previous studies of intelligence and religiosity have not been based on an optimal measure of IQ and have not distinguished clearly between religiosity and spirituality."
His/her point, in plain English, was about religiosity as mapped to academic attainment/scientific achievement, NOT IQ (which is a scientifically dubious measure to begin with) and not intelligence. You erect a straw man and then proceed to burn it at the stake. None of your arguments relate to the assertion you quoted.
Try again. - prisonplanetfan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5yes, but Christianity has been dogmatized by Satan himself .. using people as you mentioned to turn others away from Christianity ..
Anybody who can even suggest that religion is for weak minded people is ignorant in my books .. why? Because you are calling 1 third of the population "weak minded" and that only pertains to Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country.; Let alone the other major religions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions.
As a curious Teen, Soul Searching for a Faith, looking for something to believe in; I dabbled deeply with the likes of Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considered the soul as the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. He considered this essence as an incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being. As bodies die the soul is continually reborn in subsequent bodies. The Platonic soul comprises three parts:
the logos (mind)
the thymos (emotion)
the pathos (appetitive)
Aristotle , following Plato, defined the soul as the core essence of a being, but argued against its having a separate existence. For instance, if a knife had a soul, the act of cutting would be that soul, because 'cutting' is the essence of what it is to be a knife. Unlike Plato and the religious traditions, Aristotle did not consider the soul as some kind of separate, ghostly occupant of the body (just as we cannot separate the activity of cutting from the knife). As the soul, in Aristotle's view, is an activity of the body, it cannot be immortal (when a knife is destroyed, the cutting stops).
... all of which spoke to my mind.. none of which spoke to my soul. I use to think, "how could a Reasonable God persecute me, Judge me, condemn me to Hell, because I didn't believe in His Son. I'm a Good person, I do well for Humanity." Finally, after years of struggle, I decided to really study the Bible .. more paramount, the New Testament. Relating Current Events with Prophetic passages, with overwhelming relativity, I might add; I began to see the light, the Truth and the Way. There is not a thing in this entire world that could sway my certainty in Christianity.
Jesus is portrayed by the Gospels of Mark (12:28–34) and of Matthew (22:34-40) as stating that the two Greatest commandments are:
1. One should love Yahweh (God) with ones entire heart, soul, mind, and strength
2. One should love ones neighbor as one would love oneself
Jesus is "true God and true man" (or both fully divine and fully human). Jesus, having become fully human in all respects, including the aspect of mortality, suffered the pains and temptations of mortal man, yet he did not sin. As fully God, he defeated death and rose to life again with the resurrection.
Christians believe that when a person dies their soul will be judged by God, who sees all the wrong and right that they have done during their lives. If they have repented their sins and if they accept Jesus Christ (the Son of God, sent to earth by God to bear the punishment — that is, to die by crucifixion — for the sins of all of humanity) as Lord and Savior, they will inherit eternal life in Heaven and enjoy eternal fellowship with God. If they have not repented of their sins, they will go to Hell, and suffer eternal torment and separation from God.
Christian belief also holds that the soul cannot be bought; this is why money is not an accurate measurement of spirituality. You can be very wealthy, and still be "poor, and blind and naked" (Revelation). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7"Religious indoctrination of children is a form of child abuse."
And the secular humanism and diversity canon foisted on public school children is not? Folks, you are better off sending your kids to Catholic school. - rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@diggrific:
"I'll tell you what, you believe what you want and not bash me. And I'll believe what I want and you don't bash me. Sound fair?"
This from the hypocrite who wrote,
"There are no atheists in fox holes. :)" - Christsdisciple, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Jesus is God. He knew that us Christians would be mocked by those who love the world and follow it's Wisdom.
18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'[b] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22 - jhshukla, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1diggers respect religion but they like to keep it separate from non-religious issues.
- PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@ Barlo_Mung "I would admire the myth more if it had symmetry and JC was writhing in the fire pits for all eternity."
"JC" sure won't be there, but blasphemers sure will. In the meanwhile, we'll be praying for you. - blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Polish descent I find being grouped with Middle Easterners to be thoroughly insulting."
They will definitely appreciate the compliment...
All 'white' europeans like you (and me), all came a some point from the middle east. The components of our hair for example (and yes, the size of our testicles) shows that we Europeans are, from a genetic point of view "half-african and half-asian". I find that pretty amusing since we always try to portray ourselves as examples of racial purity while we are indeed the exact middle point of the afro-asian melting pot. -
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