What is Digg?165 Comments
- Gregd, on 10/12/2007, -17/+98Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks
- AndrewJC, on 10/12/2007, -8/+70I'll gladly pay for goods and services that I can't make or do for myself. Since I don't have the capability of making steamed milk or brewing espresso, I'll gladly pay a couple bucks when I have the urge to drink a latte.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+57What's with all the hate?
Starbucks has some of the best coffee (at least in the sense of beans for brewing at home) in the country.
Is anyone else getting tired of the "I hate them because they are a big, American Corporation" crap?
Starbucks...the Microsoft of coffee....we hate them because it's cool to hate the leader.
Get off it and go buy a Frappacino. - happytex757, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42The sad thing, I'd still couldn't afford their cheapest stuff. :)
- howitt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36Uh.... I used to work at Starbucks. (I'm not complaining... I slung drinks and still got full benefits, stock options, and all for working 20 hours a week! They do treat their employees pretty decently. ) Yes, THERE IS a short cap. But I don't see how the writer thinks its better than anything else on the menu. Granted a short and tall each have the same amount of espresso, but the short has considerably less milk. (Cappuccino is 1 shot of espresso, fill the cup with 1/2 milk and the other 1/2 foam. FOAM!) Yes, its not listed on the menu publicly, but it by no means is BETTER than its tall counterpart. (That's like taking IN-and-OUT Burger to task for having a secret menu.....) I have no doubt plenty of companies sabotage themselves for profit.... but the opening example makes no sense. Cheaper doesn't necessarily mean better. I also know the short size on drinks were phased out of the public eye because rarely anyone ordered them! In this Super Size world, customers asked for larger sizes and portions. The company obliged. Article is OK overall, but definately didn't do its full potential on research.
- tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26I just never bought into the idea of paying $5 for coffee.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28@ilyag
You hate it because you want to be a social misfit on the "I have to hate something that is popular" bandwagon.
The fact that you assume their customer base is made up of pretentious cretins makes you a pretentious cretin. - aquamato, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Has anyone actually ever ordered the short cappuccino?
- merm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21>Since I don't have the capability of making steamed milk or brewing espresso, I'll gladly pay a couple bucks when I have the urge to drink a latte.
It's actually easier than one might think, if you can make a cup of hot tea, you can make a latte that tastes better and costs a lot less than the Starbucks variety. And don't think that you're only spending a "couple bucks". The amount that many people spend at Starbucks during their working years could buy a 4 year degree at a respectable university, or fund a modest retirement.
Starbuck's cost on their coffee drinks are less than $0.05 for their espresso drinks, and less than $0.20 for their milk-infused drinks. Despite the appearance, both Coffee and Espresso are not difficult to make at home, and aren't expensive either. Including a home espresso machine (pays for itself in about 6-12 months at Starbucks prices). - kf6zql, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Saintlink,
In the last month I've been in the UK, Germany, and Spain. It's murder getting water from the tap, they only give you bottled water. When I stay at a persons home, they drink bottled water, never tap. Bottled water is by far not an "American" thing. - dubbin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20lactophobe.
- Saintlink, on 10/12/2007, -24/+39Starbucks and bottled water are proof that Americans spend and then think, in that order. I love their coffee, but refuse to support such a racket.
- valloq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I'm not any sort of coffee/cappuccino expert, but this January article from Slate seems to sum up the pros of the "short cappuccino" fairly well:
"The problem with large cappuccinos is that it's impossible to make the fine-bubbled milk froth ("microfoam," in the lingo) in large quantities, no matter how skilled the barista. A 20-ounce cappuccino is an oxymoron. Having sampled the short cappuccino in a number of Starbucks across the world, I can confirm that it is a better drink than the buckets of warm milk—topped with a veneer of froth—that the coffee chain advertises on its menus."
http://www.slate.com/id/2133754/ - flake, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24Nothing new here, check this out instead:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11It doesn't have to be a cappuccino... It can just be a short coffee, which is even cheaper.
I actually discovered this by asking them for a short one day to see what would happen. I didn't know it existed, but I figured that it was weird to call your smallest size a "tall."
All this Starbucks trickery aside though, Tim Horton's is still your best bet for coffee if you're in Canada. - gwinerreniwg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@ j3507: Please - I'm one of those militant types who thinks "Grande" "Tall" etc. are ridiculous marketing ploys. Do you really mean to tell me you can't determine what size cup of coffee I want if I say "Medium"? That argument is just asinine. And how pretentious and arrogant is it for a retailer to correct me after I say it? Others are jumping on this too: go to a Cold Stone Creamery, and they'll ask you if you want a "Like it", "Love it", or "Gotta Have It" size. Don't dare say "small". This is merely clever marketing taken too far.
- adamchristopher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This article is a joke. I just quit at Starbucks after two years of work and had seen this a couple times during my employment. The article tries to build it up as if Starbucks is cheating the customer out of the drink when in fact if you ask any employee all the sizes we will generally mention the short. To say that the company is "hiding" the size would be like saying that McDonald's is hiding their complimentary water cups from the customer 'cause those aren't on the menu either.
A few other little annoyances I have with the article include;
"It's cheaper than the other drinks on offer"
That's because its practically HALF the sizer of the smallest drink.
"better than the smallest size on the menu"
There is no way they can determine that every customer would enjoy a short over any other size.
There was a similar article that was published earlier than this one that implied it is impossible to properly make a venti cappuccino which is *****.
"they have a little button on their cash tills to ring it up."
no *****. its a product the company sells.
just another article trying to stick it to "big bad Starbucks" - tvc15, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Symmetric Multiprocessing. Sucks to be using 1 processor if you have 2.
- jabberwonk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"and put up with systematic abuse from the barman."
Maybe it's time to find a new bar.... Try Cheers - Woody never abused anyone. - headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9From the article - "My favourite restaurant offers the usual great food much more cheaply if you eat at the bar, and put up with systematic abuse from the barman."
That's because there is a lot of profit in selling alcohol. If you're eating at the bar, they can give you the food cheaper, because they are more than making up the cost in the overly expensive booze you buy. - icepick314, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8i've been to Chilli's, Applebees, ect...and never noticed any difference in the menu between at the bar and the table....
why would a restaurant print two different type of menu? - Paul_in_NC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9RE: Phennim's comment on cup nomenclature:
To clear something up for those who don't live in the Starbucks universe, there are no "small", "medium" and "large" named cups. Instead there are "Tall" (small), "Grande" (medium) and "Venti" (large) named cups.
There is a cup that is smaller than the "Tall" one, but they only refer to it as a "kids cup".
I recall another cup that was smaller (brownish color) than the "kids cup" that was used to serve Chantico in. Since Chantico was discontinued I don't think those little brown Chantico cups are used anymore.
One other thing to mention: This story from Slate.com "Solving the mystery of the elusive "short" cappuccino." http://www.slate.com/id/2133754/ from January 6, 2006 is quite a bit more informative than the BBC article at the top of this page.
My 2 cents. - JackHererUK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8This is in the UK, Alcohol is taxed heavily. There is very little money to be made selling alcohol, that's why most pubs/bars also doo food, becuase there is much less tax and therefore much grater margins.
- flair1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Starbucks coffee hurts my stomach but the coffee from my locally owned coffee house is smooth and tastes 100x better. Also the local coffee shop roasts its own beans in the shop and provides free internet access. Support local businesses if you have the choice.
- elroy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Starbucks and the like are certainly high profit, but it's all about service -- not simply the product.
1. Coffee shops have really nice, expensive espresso machines. I have a machine too, but the cup it makes isn't nearly as good.
2. Making your own takes time and effort. There's preparation and clean-up time involved. Coffee shops are faster. What's your time worth?
There's value in what a coffee shop has to offer, just the same as a car wash or lube shop. Yes, I can change my own oil or wash my own car, but it takes time -- and it's worth the fee for me not to expend my productive time on such tasks. So, I feel justified paying $2 for my triple espresso, when it's good quality and hassle-free. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8sounds like the 3 partners that started starbucks were all short and are in denial
- PlaidPhantom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize (along with the rest of us) for offending your poor, delicate British ears. I suppose we just don't have such a trained collective ear for language. Us poor, uncouth Americans.
Seriously, get off your high horse. British English can sound that bad to American ears at times as well. That's a common phrasing we use. What about "sentence thing"? - MonolithTMA, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Actually, if you stick with just coffee, the venti is $1.80 or so here in Ohio. I've never been into all the fancier coffee drinks.
- twitchr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5it's all about Peet's Coffee!!!
- essdub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This isn't news by any means. The short cappuccino has been around for awhile, and has been dugg before. After reading about the short cap as a "Starbucks hack" on digg, I tried getting this at several Starbucks, and the short cap has been phased out at all locations I tried. Their response was, "we don't offer the short anymore, but I can make you a tall." Lady, you can make anyone a tall.
- WhidbeyGeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Time to clear up the tall/small thing with SBUX. As a former barista in the Eugene and Portland markets and now as a member of the IT dept. at the corporate office in Seattle I know from where I speak.
There was a time, up until the early 90's, that Starbucks had just three sizes.
Short = 8oz
Tall = 10oz
Grande = 16oz
There were the sizes and you could order them as small, medium and large if you wanted to.
In the early 90's market research discovered that customers wanted a larger size than the Grande, hence the Venti (an Italian variant of the number 20, as in 20 oz) was born.
Both my wife and I were working in the stores when that transition happened and as part of the shift the short size was removed from the menu board for lack of room. The cups were still in the store and customers could still order short, but "out of sight, out of mind" took over and fewer people were ordering the short size. As a result of that, the short stayed off the menu board. Some stores even stopped putting the shorts on their Service Paper orders, but I think that practice has stopped.
Short still exists on the screens that the baristas use to punch in your order and you can certainly still order it; even if they have to give it to you in a tall cup. - artificialhero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"It wouldn't work for a business lunch or a romantic meal, but it's just fine if I want to take my wife somewhere affordable." - ummm... right!
- biohzrd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@Eyebee: hmm, maybe if they don't want to dick around with a CLI, or have to go to google every two seconds to figure out why the hell their system says kernel panic!?
- PhilH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This guy has a series all about economics starting on the BBC here in the UK. I watched it last night, and it was the most interesting thing I've seen in a long time. The main point was how to distinguish between price and value. The value how much it benefits you, whereas the price is how much you are willing to pay for those benefits.
One example was the difference between first and eceonomy class train tickets. The economy one was something like £22, whereas the first class was nearer £279, 12x as much. He proposed to swap his ticket (economy) with a businessman who had not paid for his own ticket in first class. The main willingly gave up his £279 ticket for just £60. That is the value of the ticket to him. It's not unethical to charge more really, because if people weren't willing to pay it, then they couldn't charge that amount.
The starbucks comparison was more about how they catch you out on the extras. They take advantage of those people who think they are worth the extra money by providing more expensive options. Ultimately, they still have to provide low-cost options for the more price-conscious customers. Price targeting is the name for it.
I would highly recommend the series to anyone who lives in the UK. Next week's is all about how to get raises; I think. - icepick314, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8occasional frappuccino is nice....but mostly i drink my own at home...groceries carry some really nice roasts and much cheaper than beans sold at Starbucks...
don't know why anyone would drink those mixed coffees everyday...those things run several hundred calories.... - surfit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A lot of people prefer to have smaller servings, and if it's cheaper to another equally small version then they'll take it.
Bear in mind this is the UK where it isn't common to offer huge portions of food products and also, people who live within big cities are more likely to order smaller versions because they tend to be more bothered about their weight/appearance. - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Starbucks is a business, and of course they will market and advertise for profit - they arent a social program for christs sakes.
- sweetnjguy29, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The real hidden gem of Starbucks is the regular coffee. It is cheap, usually about $1.75 or so. Usually have a light, medium, or dark choice. Sometimes they will have a special coffee of the day too, that is brewed in a small batch. Othertimes, they will have a "rare"/"unusual" coffee such as a Rhwandan listed.
Honestly, I think Starbucks coffee isn't that great. But it is hard to find locally owned coffee houses since a lot of them have been forced out of business or are too expensive.
Often, with a little hunting, you can find a diner, cafe, news shop, etc, that brews quality coffee in small batches, really cheap.
If your really unhappy with any of these options, you can buy an expresso machine. Or, get a coffee grinder and a drip filter and make it yourself. I make my own drip coffee at work with a mini drip filter and a coffee mug. 1000x better than Starbucks. - jknevitt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"If someone's stupid and trendy enough to eat at Starbucks...they probably deserve it."
Why? Because it's 'wrong' to be trendy? I think it's more of a trend to -hate- Starbucks. I can't count the number of times I've heard "Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks" from people who have no reason for saying that other than it's the 'in' thing.
Who knows, maybe hating Starbucks haters because they're ignorant, wannabe "me-too" morons will be the 'in' thing, and then I can be trendy like everyone else. - headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"There is very little money to be made selling alcohol, that's why most pubs/bars also doo food"
That's funny, cause it's the other way around where I live. Bars sell food to get people to come in and eat, in the hopes they will buy high profit drinks. - edwardko, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Perfect example is XP Pro and Home. 99 out of 100 can't tell you why they need Pro over Home except "it's better" or "it's more secure." Is there REALLY a reason someone not on a Windows server network needs to buy pro? (Remote access aside, there are plenty of other solutions.)
- sparc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Here is my beef about SB. The cups suck! And I hate waiting in a line behind a bunch of folk all buying the fancy drinks. SB needs to have an express (coffee only) line. And about those cups. SB cups are the only cups that have collapsed on me while in my car. What has happened (I finally figured out) is I get served the coffee with the cap on. So I have to take the cap off to add some cream. When I put the cap back on (a second time) it appears to not seal well. When I have tried to repair the leaky cap while driving the cap has slipped off and then..... ouch!
sorry.. I just had to get it out of my system... - Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Grande means "large", Venti means "20". I took Italian last year. *shrug*
- ryan_merket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ekso
You have absolutly no business telling people what good coffee is when you spell espresso, "EXPRESSO".
And for all of you people who think Starbucks has good "coffee", please do a LITTLE bit of research, and go to a coffee shop that has an in-house roaster (where they actually roast their coffee THEMSELVES).
That brings me to another point, a "Frappacino" is NOT coffee. It is caramel, chocolate, milk, and Starbucks burnt espresso. - SilverRocket, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Starbucks. Great coffee. Great treatment of employees beyond federal/state standards (see "includes health plan" and more).
I think I'll keep going there. Facists. - Iandefor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"What's with all the hate?
Starbucks has some of the best coffee (at least in the sense of beans for brewing at home) in the country.
Is anyone else getting tired of the "I hate them because they are a big, American Corporation" crap?
Starbucks...the Microsoft of coffee....we hate them because it's cool to hate the leader.
Get off it and go buy a Frappacino."
Meh, I can get fair trade coffee *for sure* [Starbucks has a checkered history with fair trade] at the local coffee joints, and I'm supporting a local businessman at the same time. I also prefer the coffee at some of the local places- people at the Starbucks where I am do long pulls. Long pulls == bitter coffee.
By *not* buying Starbucks, I'm getting better, cheaper and fairly-acquired coffee that benefits my local economy. Tell me again why I should buy Starbucks? - tvc15, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5They are counting the number of shots in the cup as the measure of goodness. The espresso is the expensive ingredient. Milk is just filler. So a short has one shot, tall has one shot. Short is cheaper => Short is better value. I believe Grande has two shots and Venti has three. I don't know how they come out in the analysis but I infer from the article the Grande is more expensive than 2 shorts. You can also add extra shots for a price and I suspect those aren't as good a value either since only big spenders might think to do that. But that's just speculation.
- wysteria, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@ilyag
"It's a simple desire on my part to not be associated with shallow scum. "
Such an ironic statement. Really, just think about that. - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@forth: Recycled materials are no flimsier than new ones. A cup (which is probably almost entirely paper, with a light coating inside to make it waterproof) made from 100% recycled material would be indistinguishable to a cup made from 100% new materials, assuming the recycling was done by an even semi-competent company.
If you want a reason the cups are flimsy, it's probably either they are made from less material (thinner), the design is worse (maybe the rim isn't reinforced well enough, or there are ridges that are not shaped properly or something), or as was said earlier, you have to remove the lid to add cream, and then put the lid back on, stressing the cup that isn't designed to be abused. Don't blame recycling. Recycling is good. - biohzrd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Very well written article. Thanks for that link!
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