What is Digg?155 Comments
- tomasII, on 06/04/2008, -7/+43Is there any real reason this guy should not be executed?
- boxoman, on 06/04/2008, -5/+36Honestly, if you are appealing the crime, than a stay of execution would be ok. But he is appealing the execution terms, which is BS in my opinion, You killed a woman and her 2 year old kid, stop being a ***** worthless pussy, man up, and DIE.
- Zomowink, on 06/04/2008, -3/+27There is no limit to the amount of pain that I would like to cause this person. Reading this story makes me want to take the day off and spend it with my two kids.
- crapmatic, on 06/04/2008, -3/+27Holy cow.. 1991?? Someone want to put some oil in the wheels of justice?
- prleet, on 06/04/2008, -15/+38u killed a 2 year old kid..wtf...have you ever seen the smile on a 2 year old kid...its the smile of God.
- DrWho520, on 06/04/2008, -2/+20Apparently he stabbed her with a claw hammer and then dumped he in a tub. They did not say whether this was before or after having he was with her body. Dump him in general population an let everybody know he raped a dead body and killed a two year old boy.
"On Sept. 16, 1991, police found Flowers in the tub of her Humble apartment.
The single mother of five had been bludgeoned with a claw hammer, raped, strangled and stabbed. Her body was dumped in the partially filled bathtub. The stabbed body of her toddler, Patrick, was on top of her.
Sonnier was dating one of Flowers' close friends and lived near Flowers and her children. Authorities said Sonnier had stalked Flowers for months, once even slipping into her apartment when she was not home.
The day of the murders, neighbors reported seeing Sonnier with a wounded hand wrapped in a towel. In his apartment, where Sonnier lived with his girlfriend, police found Flowers' bloody blouse and a blood-soaked towel that also belonged to her.
Police later found a grocery bag stashed in a field near the complex that had his bloody socks, shoes, and other items that connected him to the crime." - BillGod, on 06/04/2008, -10/+22Man not sure if I should dig your comment up or punch you in the face
- chili555, on 06/04/2008, -4/+15Let's give him the same break he gave Ms. Flowers and her child: death by clawhammer. Let's do it by noon today. Let's stop wasting the courts time.
- inactive, on 06/04/2008, -2/+13I don't want a cent of tax money spent on this *****.
And it would solve something:
1. That ***** wouldn't exist anymore (she had 4 other kids).
2. We'd stop paying for him to be alive.
Sit around and think... He KILLED A BABY. That guy should die by starvation. - roosterjm2k2, on 06/04/2008, -3/+13Because it does no good...
he gets to go to sleep calmly for the most part...what kind of ***** is that...
I believe the death penalty has been overused in the past...but I don't believe we should get rid of it...
It should be reserved for people like this...crimes that are just unfathomable to a normal person.
And we don't need to spend a million bucks to do it.
Tall tree + short rope...cost the state a few bucks for some rope.... - rachecol, on 06/04/2008, -2/+11I can't believe that there are people out there that would argue that lethal injection is cruel and unusual....I don't know, but isn't being sexually assaulted and beaten to death with a hammer cruel and unusual?? Then to kill a two year old on top of it....I think he should die just like she did. I'm actually a big fan of the rack, let's bring that back....
- Slugo, on 06/04/2008, -5/+14How can even a pacifist stick up for this POS ? Let's put these people that are fighting to save this guy in a room with him, their own 2 year old, a hammer and a gun...bet they would be singing a different tune.
- Sinudeity, on 06/04/2008, -9/+16Death penalty for murderers and rapists!
- jrm5100, on 06/04/2008, -4/+11Eye for an eye is vengeance, not justice.
- CaptMonkey, on 06/04/2008, -1/+8First, I'm not a liberal, you're merely trying to pigeon-hole me to marginalize any point I try to make. On that note, I won't call you names like "conservative" or "execution-loving nutcase", because those may not be accurate.
Second, if someone murdered my family, I would feel no better knowing that the government executed the murderer. Granted, I would never want to see them free, but knowing that someone was killed in my name would not help me sleep any better at night. It's not going to bring them back. It's just vengeance and it is not the hallmark of a healthy society.
Also, I would not be opposed to having these people forced to do some sort of labor in exchange for their food and housing. The 13th Amendment allows for this, and that way no one can argue that they are draining tax dollars, as they are performing a service instead of getting to live on our dime for nothing. - inactive, on 06/04/2008, -10/+16It makes dirty hippies feel sad?
Ya, that reason wasent good enough for me either. - eir574, on 06/04/2008, -0/+6@Coven,
I agree with you in theory, but how often do we actually know someone's guilt beyond absolutely all doubt? Even beyond that issue, human nature gets in the way too often. We certainly see people on death row exonerated from time to time, and in some of those cases there are elements of, at best, massaging of evidence by prosecutors and/or police, if not actual negligence. Juries don't get to see everything the police and prosecutors see. They see the case that's presented to them, which, intentionally or otherwise, is sometimes less than completely honest.
If cost were not an issue, I wonder if the greater punishment is actually life in prison without possibility of parole. It's hard to know what I'd say if it were my life on the line, but after some amount of time living in a tiny cell with little to occupy my time and little control over my own life, death could easily start to look like the easy way out.
As for whether cost is an issue, see http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/COcosttestimony.pd ... (warning: pdf). It's some guy whom I'm not familiar with testifying before Congress, so I can't vouch for its accuracy. But, what it says does make sense. Litigating death penalty cases is hugely expensive, and we incur that expense right away instead of spreading it out over many years. And, that expense is incurred regardless of whether the death penalty is actually carried out. It often works out that those expensive cases go on for years, only to turn into life imprisonment sentences. - yohnstoppable, on 06/04/2008, -1/+7Isn't it MORE expensive to execute someone due to all the legal fees on appeals and such? Too bad they can't just let me handle it. I can go pick up some cheap speaker wire at radio shack and be done with it
- richiewrt, on 06/04/2008, -1/+6I agree. Even if the execution is a little painful, its not like he is being beaten to death with a hammer like she was. I think drawn and quartered would have been an appropriate punishment in this case.
- smotpoker1, on 06/04/2008, -7/+12Injection cruel and unusual?I'm all for get what you gave,or eye for an eye.Stab , rape and strangle that prick.Stab him in the same place he stab her and the kid and stab him just as many times and for as long as he choked them.That's what I call real justice and those nut case lifers rights people all I can say is if he would of left them alone he wouldn't be at the gallows now.If the law wonn't do it let the family do it and let me on the jury. Justice WILL be served.
- SheepLicker, on 06/04/2008, -7/+12I've always believed what my father told me: "Man has no right to take away what he can't give back."
- mobbo, on 06/04/2008, -1/+6"Sonnier has maintained his innocence in the case."
LOL! Are you SERIOUS dude? You were seen leaving the crime scene with a wounded hand, they found her bloody clothes in your apartment, and found your socks and shoes covered in her blood in a grocery bag next to your apartment... and you argue innocence?
They're going to have a problem getting this guy on the death chamber gurney with balls that big. - eir574, on 06/04/2008, -0/+5@Horatio:
See http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/COcosttestimony.pd ... (warning: pdf) for one person's testimony in Colorado. Litigating death penalty cases is hugely expensive, and we incur that expense over a short period of time rather than spreading it out over years. Many death penalty cases don't actually result in executions, either. Sometimes juries don't apply the death penalty (much money is still spent even by that stage since death penalty cases are more carefully litigated), and often death penalty sentences are overturned on appeal (the pdf I linked to cites a Columbia study that said this happens 68% of the time). - freedomfrog, on 06/04/2008, -3/+7That man forfeited his right to live by taking the lives of two innocents. I don't know where tard monkey up there got his info thinking it would be cheaper to keep someone alive for 50 years in prison versus the $85 in chemicals it takes to execute him. It's less than $100 dollars, there is no overtime being paid, the executioners are working their normal shift. The procedure for execution has not changed in this state for 25 years and to file an appeal on that procedure is just silly. It's a last minute attempt to get a some more time to beg for God's forgiveness before you meet him. His sentence has been passed, it is time to carry it out.
- tomasII, on 06/04/2008, -0/+4I disagree with your statment about revenge. Who is taking revenge? The state? Certainly not the victims.
Does society not have the right to protect itself from scum of the earth rapist murderers. The law of the land whether you like it or not is that in some states criminals who commit crimes this heinous are elible to die. Why should society be endangered by this person until he dies.
Oh and the argument that we should put him away forever doesn't work, Criminals escape every day. And those criminals commit crimes including rap and murder. Not only that many murders are allowed to go free after serving a portion of their sentence. The only way to truly protect society is to take the life of criminals who commit crimes such as the one in this article. - colin8651, on 06/04/2008, -0/+4If it was about revenge, they would be using a claw hammer. When you don't care about human life, then people tend to not care about your life. It is as simple as that.
I understand where you are coming from, and I wish I was more like you, but I am not. You respect your neighbor, or you go in earths little recycling bin. - inactive, on 06/04/2008, -0/+4Not taking a life for a life is sanctioning murder.
It's the same thing as if there was a law stating that you only have to give back half of what you steal and then stay in prison for a while. Steal a 100 million, give back 50 million, live in prison on others' expense for a while and then walk out rich as hell. - VinceNoir, on 06/04/2008, -1/+5This: "The only reason to kill him is for revenge, which should not be a valid reason in the civilized world to take a life".
You hit a point there that needs further exploration. If we shouldn't kill criminals of this type for revenge, then how else does a society get catharsis? There is certainly a need within anyone who hears about this situation to see the person severely punished for their actions. I'm not in favor of the death penalty either since I find it to be too easy of an out. However, that still doesn't answer the question of what to do to make others feel that justice is being served.
How do you inflict justice on someone like this? Our society is already opposed to torture, so the thought of say... removing his hands and penis (keep the testicles so he still has a sex drive, just take away the ability to experience orgasm) is not palatable. He also killed to people, who as you said are not coming back. We can't make them come back. But how do we make HIM feel the pain he's responsible for? Assuming he's a callous rapist and murderer, he won't feel pain in the same way. I would say that since rape is less about sex and more about power, we need to make him powerless. Perhaps we put him in prison with proper medication to make him lack coordination and place him in situations where he has to defend himself in the face of violence? Then he might have some small inkling of what it was like to be one of his victims? That still falls under the guise of torture, so is unacceptable.
We're in a difficult position with this, aren't we? Since not everyone is religious, we can't trust in the judgment of God/Allah/FSM what have you. We either have to cross the line into reprehensible behavior ourselves, or we turn the other cheek. Neither option is acceptable, is it? There doesn't appear to be a decent solution to this problem. - thedarkwolf, on 06/04/2008, -0/+4The problem is not that the killer was alive, but that he was released after receiving a life without parole sentence. If we could actually force the criminals to serve their time that would not be a problem.
- mobbo, on 06/04/2008, -0/+4I think the Texas Legislature has tried multiple times to speed up the process and even tried passing a law that if a person was caught committing the act on camera, there was DNA evidence, and/or multiple eyewitnesses to the crime, then the person would executed faster.
- silveravnt, on 06/04/2008, -3/+6So we shouldn't punish a murderer because the rest of the world will look down on it? Maybe he can come live with you. Your neighbors would think you are such a great guy for helping him get back on his feet.
- Oracle95, on 06/04/2008, -0/+3In the 5 years that I worked for the Courier News in Bridgewater, I covered 3 separate instanced of prisoners who were sentenced to Life without Parole who were released. One case involved a Child Killer who killed again while on parole and was released a second time after being convicted of a separate time of Life without Parole.
Three cases may not seem like a lot to you, but this was over 5 years. Four convictions of Life without Parole and two murders (children) that occurred after a parole board released them. - eosp, on 06/04/2008, -0/+3And I would rather set all ten free to prevent the possibility of condemning an innocent man.
- Bronowyn, on 06/04/2008, -0/+3I don't have a problem with the death penalty, in fact, I studied crime in college, and thought I might work for the FBI at one time.
What I know about it, rapists and serial killers CANNOT BE REHABILITATED, so yeah, that's fine, rid the world of them.
But giving a financial argument for the death penalty is actually a bad one. It costs LESS to clothe, shelter, feed a criminal for the rest of their life than it costs to put them to death. No joke.
"In practice, the error rate in determining that people are actually guilty of said crimes is too high, the cost of litigating capital cases too high, and there will be disagreement on what constitutes "sufficiently heinous". Life imprisonment without the possibility of parole is (a) easier to revoke than an execution and (b) cheaper than all the litigation that eventually gets a person to death row." - ventralnet, on 06/04/2008, -3/+6Hi, do you know who I am?? I am chris hanson and we are doing a little story on....
- inactive, on 06/04/2008, -1/+4Exactly.
The case costs 470,000.
They kept him alive 17 years at 40k a year, for a total of 680,000 dollars, plus the cost of the original trial, plus the loss of two human beings (who would pay taxes and work).
Add 40k extra per year he's kept alive. - spwpi10, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2One way people can think of it, since you brought up the whole right to life thing, is that humans have a right to create a happy and meaningful lives for themselves. If you believe that a newly created fetus or embryo is human, then you can believe that they fetus/embryo has a right to the opportunity to live their lives.
However, if you ***** up and start killing other people, then you didn't create a good life for yourself, and you can die. So it's kind of like a priveledge rather than a right. Sure you can say that they always have the right to try and turn their lives around but a lot of people believe that some people simply cannot do it, as has been said before, and then it's cool to kill them.
That's just what I came up with real quick for a way to rationalize it for some people. - hightower77, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2FYI. Claw Hammers are your normal everyday hammer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claw_hammer - HoratioHellpop, on 06/04/2008, -2/+4Ah, I was wondering when the lib-tard idiots would chime in with some totally irrelevant post about Bush. Thanks for keeping the streak alive.
- inactive, on 06/04/2008, -3/+5Not on my dime.
Kill him, and be done with this trash. - JustinCase18, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2There was a case in New Jersey in the 80's that was so brutal and horrible, the crime scene photos were used to "desensitize" crime scene investigators. 10 years later the murderer was released on parole (even though he received a "Life Without Parole" sentence).
The family of the victim had moved, but somehow the murderer was to be housed on the same street and as family's new address. Due to nature of the parole, the family was NOT notified that the killer had been released.
When this story was released in the local media (not a national story since the main stream media is not a big fan of paroled killer stories who were supposed to be "Life without Parole"), the officers who released the story to the press were terminated and the parolee sued them for the cost of relocation due to the public outcry.
Some animals are too deranged to be allowed to live. If they exist without any remorse for their crimes, a lifetime of incarceration is not a penalty and the victim's family can never be sure if that animal will ever be released. - Spudster, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2In case all of you wondering that keeping them in prison costs more, please check the latest statistics. In America today, it costs substantially more to execute someone than to give them life in prison.
Also, the fact that you're willing to end someone's life on the basis of financials is very repugnant. The murderer may be evil, but we are hypocrites if we takes ourselves to their level in order to punish them.
Anyway, the cold, hard stats:
Report to Washington State Bar Association regarding costs
* At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel.
* On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases.
* Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional$137,000 in public defense costs.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=10 ... - KyloOb, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2You must be out of your mind... You can punish someone without killing them.
- bagboyrebel, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2yeah, lets just ignore the entire process of actually proving he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If someone is accused of a crime, they must have been guilty, why else would someone accuse them?
- inactive, on 06/04/2008, -2/+4That's pretty much the one thing I'd want from those countries into my country.
Oh and on related news, another triple-murderer got out of prison here some time ago and is having a jolly good life now. I love you spineless murderer-loving anti-death penalty people. - colin8651, on 06/04/2008, -2/+4While you pay the $40,000 to keep him in the cell for the rest of his life. You do pay taxes, don't you?
- silveravnt, on 06/04/2008, -1/+3He is still a danger to the people around him. Wether it is other inmates or if he is released. Sure some may just be crazy but I believe consequences keep people in line every day. I for example would love to drive a lot faster but I don't want to pay a ticket or go to jail or lose my car. So I drive the same speed as everyone else.
This man is not a part of society anymore. He has chosen his own path and we need to help him walk down it.
(disclaimer: I place a low value on human life in the first place. Evil people are even less valuable in my eyes.) - pauleric, on 06/04/2008, -2/+4"Sonnier is a bad guy - a really bad guy." Okay, you've established that you're not completely insane.
"The thing is that the death penalty is government sanctioned murder." Saying that doesn't make it true.
"Supporting it is nothing short of vigilantism." You don't get to redefine words, vigilantism is by definition illegal.
"Also, if you are a "right-to-lifer" how can you support it the death-penalty?" Easy, the whole thing about guilt and innocence.
"A life is a life - if you try to put a spin on it, then you are playing God." A legitimate argument is not spin.
"And God don't like that." Apparently you can assume what God does and doesn't like, but nobody else can.
"Having said all that, I live about 70 miles away and when they send him to his dirt-nap, I won't travel there to hold a candle to try to stop it. Like I said, he is a bad guy."
Why not go protest? Apparently (I'm just guessing by your tone) that you think the death penalty is immoral. But you're willing to compromise your morals because...he's a bad guy? wtf?
For the record, I've got no problem with the death penalty (as long as the trial is honest). But it's about permanently removing evil people from society, not vindictive punishment. And people like this guy don't need to sit and think, and we don't need to pay for his free room and board. Just execute him already and society will be an incrementally better place. - katiekatekate, on 06/04/2008, -0/+238"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." Matthew 5:38-42
So, JESUS HIMSELF said that eye for an eye ***** is outdated.
I didn't intend to get into a religious debate. My point was that people feel how they feel and can usually find a passage to support that. So telling someone to go read the Bible because it says "x" is a specious argument, since chances are pretty good I can find something else in the Bible that contradicts it. - SpencerMc, on 06/04/2008, -0/+2This is actually a very good point. If you weren't being a dick about it, though, it'd probably have more resonance.
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