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123 Comments
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -1/+78Lol, Chinese George Costanza.
George: I was trying to lead the way. We needed a leader, if I die then all hope is lost. Who would lead, the clown?
Woman, mother: When you ran you knocked everyone down in a mad panic. Then you left everyone behind.
George: Seemingly, seemingly, to the untrained eye. I can fully understand how you got that impression. In a fire, you stay close to the ground, am I right?
Fireman: How do you live with yourself??!
George: It's not easy. - geekchic, on 06/02/2008, -6/+78You can't really blame him though - it is just human nature at work. We would like to think that we would want to save others, but the survival instinct is somewhat stronger than that.
I was visiting a nuclear reprocessing center recently, and if a criticality alarm sounds its a case of run for your lifes and ignore everyone else. - MrsButtersworth, on 06/03/2008, -0/+48Sounds like George Costanza.
- hamobu, on 06/02/2008, -6/+52I admire his courage to admit his cowardice. Also, you should be free to be a coward. From the article:
When his pupils began to arrive, they asked: "Teacher, why didn't you bring us out?"
His explanation was simple. "I have a very strong sense of self-preservation," he said. "I have never been a brave man and I'm only really concerned about myself." - Sillywombat, on 06/03/2008, -1/+35"Everybody panic! If you have a small child, use it as a shield!"
- bosssmiley, on 06/03/2008, -0/+22I'm just glad I haven't been in a situation where my courage was tested like Fan's was. Won't hate on the man; don't know if I'd act any better than he did.
Not everyone has it in them to be a hero. - eszymczyk, on 06/03/2008, -0/+22*edit* damn the seinfeld fans are quick to reply today...
- ThatEvilGuy, on 06/03/2008, -1/+19Hell, I'd run too, I'd run like a gazelle, a 270 pound gazelle.
- Badewell, on 06/03/2008, -2/+18Unless you've personally saved children from a school during an earthquake at your own peril you can't really judge the guy. Anyway, I'd rather a guy who was straight up about bailing on the first sign of danger as opposed to someone who told me he had my back then ran.
- bertbarndoor, on 06/03/2008, -2/+16This thought has been expressed in different ways here already, but I'll say it a different way.
Not everyone is a hero. That is why, when heroes emerge, we hold them in such high esteem. The fact is, many, if not most people would have acted in the same manner as Mr. Fan. Perhaps they would have downplayed their actions after the fact, or convinced themselves that they really couldn't have done anything to help the children, but the fact would remain that they likely would have chosen to save themselves, consciously or not.
Heroism is rare and that is why, when it emerges, we celebrate it. If selfless acts were the norm, would there still be sick and starving children around the world? Would the most powerful nation on earth be governed by corporate special interest groups who are responsible for raping the planet? Would we allow war and genocide to occur in countless countries around the world who are not blessed with oil below their country? Need I go on?
In general, I say that we, as individuals, and collectively, prefer to look the other way and concern ourselves with the betterment and preservation of ourselves. We make ourselves feel better by convincing ourselves that we can't do any good or by making token gestures that don't amount to much. When real heroes emerge, we are in awe because they are indeed rare. Mr. Fan is just like most of the world, except that he admits it. And we get mad at him for revealing the failings in all of us. He makes us feel guilty, I think. Sad but true. - unknownpoltroon, on 06/03/2008, -3/+16My last place of work had an unannounced drill almost a year to the day after 9/11. My coworkers were like "The alarm went off, we looked up and you were gone." I made it out of the room with my jacket and bag in less than 20 seconds, and thought that was far to long.
- 955701, on 06/03/2008, -0/+10http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysp ...
You can only care for so many people. Clearly the students were not some of the people he cared about. - therusher, on 06/03/2008, -0/+9Is it bad that I clicked the link half-asleep and thought he lost his eyes and kept running?
- Eezyville, on 06/03/2008, -1/+10I don't blame the guy. We all might say we will save as many kids as we can. That's wish full thinking. He's a teacher. He may have had low level training for an earthquake and who knows if he were prepared for the quake that happened. If he were an emergency worker like a firefighter who has had extensive training for such situations then I think he would have saved some kids. Its sad but I think that may have been the best he was capable of.
For those who say that you would have saved allot of kids, come on man. You don't know what you would do in that situation UNLESS you've had extensive training, then you'd have a good idea of what you would do.
Everyone wants to be a hero but you've got to be realistic. - Pinkertinkle, on 06/03/2008, -2/+11Most people would run in that situation.
- Wormfather, on 06/03/2008, -3/+12Self Preservation: 101
He's a teacher not a firefighter, want to protect your kids? Home school bitches. - inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+8and so would most of you ;-)
- Taktic, on 06/03/2008, -1/+9Well put. And in the end, who can be put to work in the aftermath, a grown up with valuable skills or a toddler that's gonna cry the entire time anyway.
I say prioritize! - Natitude, on 06/03/2008, -1/+9I don't blame him for following his first instinct to run, but the fact that he does bluntly talk about how he would not try to save anyone ever, is pretty bold and in my opinion, it is cowardly. He wouldn't even try to save his own mother? While it takes a certain kind of person to be willing to put themselves in danger for strangers, it takes an entirely different person to not risk themselves for those they love. Typically teachers develop bonds with their pupils and the fact is when you are a teacher, you are responsible for those kids. I'm not saying this guy should have died for them but I don't feel this guy's decision should be defended. Maybe if more people aspired to be heroes, the world wouldn't be so ***** right now.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -12/+19Every action is inherently selfish anyway. If he had helped them, it'd be to selfishly dodge guilt.
- Orsenfelt, on 06/03/2008, -2/+9You'd most likely run away too, So would I. It takes a /very/ special person to step up and be a hero. 95% of us would let nature take over and get the hell out.
Does it make us bad people? No. It just makes those few hero's the exceptions, The exceptions that rise above and earn there place as better people. - Wormfather, on 06/03/2008, -4/+11A teacher is charged with teaching kids. Not with protecting them. That's the parent's, police, firefighter's and social worker's job.
- ChristBehemoth, on 06/03/2008, -1/+8Not everyone is a hero.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+7Yeah right, go take a look at WW2 where occupied citizens under the Nazis were ratting their neighbors out for self preservation.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+6And that is perfectly reasonable. Everyone else around here seems to want to have this Disney fantasy of the concept of selflessness.
- BarnacleBob, on 06/06/2008, -3/+9Don't judge other people until you have been in the situation. This person is NOT a coward.
Flight response from a shock like this, is a basic instinct. It can't be controlled unless someone else
has a hand in it, like grabbing you and bringing your unconscious response into focus.
I hope all you people never experience it. - thcobbs, on 06/03/2008, -1/+6Sounds more like based on pure emotion rather than any reason what-so-ever.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -1/+6I've read The Social Animal by Eliot Aronson as well. The brain acts more quickly than you clearly realize. We think and act on thoughts that actually go deeper than the ones we hear vocalized in our minds.
- tomd123, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5Don't worry, the term hero is used very loosely in today's society, I'm pretty sure you can be one, in another situation.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5I guess he knew the concrete was hollow tube (Used on super cheap retaining walls) with 1/4 inch reinforcement every 10 inches....
- jordanlgta, on 06/03/2008, -1/+6George Costanza:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AnfbhdELQLA - cdigioia, on 06/03/2008, -0/+5DestroyFascism beat me to it, dugg up.
I'd like to think I'd try to help the children. Based on what few experiences I've had, I have tried to protect those around me that I knew - BUT...I've never been in a situation ANYTHING like that. And what if I did know how poorly constructed the school was? Ideally, this guy shouldn't feel ashamed, it's a very natural reaction.
To the person two above me - I don't think comparing this to "our" (US soldiers in WW2 I assume you mean) grandfathers is appropriate. They had training, some very general idea of what to expect, and were within their units (where discipline & peer pressure of a sort, make for an excellent substitute for courage if it's understandably lacking).
No-one really knows how they'd react in this situation - and many, I'm sure, would react just as he did. It's not ideal, but it's understandable, and I suspect, common. Kudos to him for at least being honest about it. - aladrin, on 06/03/2008, -1/+5While I agree that every action is selfish, I don't believe that would be the reason here. Personally, my reason for helping them myself is that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't. It would eat me alive for years afterwards, especially if any of them were hurt.
- Eezyville, on 06/03/2008, -0/+4Do you think he was aware of the moral right thing to do? His options were either to take the time to organize the kids and lead them out, while risking his own life which, to him, is very important, or to escape and save the person he knows he can save, himself.
- Hangly, on 06/03/2008, -1/+5When your brain is pumped full of that much adrenaline I think you might find it impossible to make any decision based on reason.
Preservation of other humans, especially children, is an instinct. - Relikh, on 06/03/2008, -1/+5Yeah, but it would be nice to think that if you did send your child somewhere, you could at least expect a full grown man to try to take care of the young'uns. I'm not blaming the guy, but still...
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+4better or different? We're all nothing more than the byproduct of the circumstances we face. Each of us face a different set of circumstances daily. Not everything has to be good and bad. Some things can just BE.
- Ukonu, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3"Personally, my reason for helping them myself is that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't. It would eat me alive for years afterwards, especially if any of them were hurt."
I may be being a dumbass right now and misinterpreting something obvious but.....isn't that GUILT? - inactive, on 06/03/2008, -1/+4so, suppose you two had the guts to help, how many can you save? lets say 1 on each arm for one trip, isn't it crazy to make a second trip? if you don't preserve yourself in an insurmountable situation, then you are not courageous, you are an idiot. if it was his own children and he didnt save them, then that would be cowardice.
- TBBucs, on 06/03/2008, -2/+5Self-preservation FTW.
- AlekNovi, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3Actually the OP might be right. What's with the knee-jerk reactions. A lot of thinkers in psychology and social psychology are reaching similar conclusions.
Even things like altruism and "selfless=-giving" can be found to have selfish components. For example, whenever a person gives to say a beggar or helps someone in need, their "feel good" hormones increase. Mostly seratonin. Also, not giving and not helping increases some of the "feel bad" chemicals.
*i'm simplifying things for obvious reasons but the point is the same*
We as humans are built to go towards good feelings and run from bad ones (generally, not always).
That said, the point is not "you only help since you're a greedy bastard". The point is:
"Nature has built into the human species several mechanism to ensure the benefit of the whole instead of just the individual". That's believe to be one of the reasons why humans have reached such an advantageous position in front of other species.
One of those is making you feel super-bad if you don't help, and super good if you do.
Now there's always the social component in this. You can be conditioned in some societies (or families) to ignore it, and in other you can be conditioned to always follow it. - Eezyville, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3Oh and I guess you would have done better? How many time have you've seen "adults" make mistakes? How many times have you seen "adults" not act the way you say adults should act? If you were in a situation in which you were never prepared for how would you act? Would you do the honorable thing or the most heinous? Since you know what he should have done why don't you be useful and inform the rest of the world what they should do during natural disasters.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -1/+4guys gotta point though when you go through all that education to get a good job you can't just risk your life it's like all your hard work was for nothing and he's right risking your life isn't what you're paid for as a teacher if it is they should be paid alot more.
- damnclem, on 06/03/2008, -4/+7F**K being a Hero, I'd rather be alive and a pussy.
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3Selfishness is inherent. We think as ourselves and we exist as ourselves therefore we place ourselves first. It ISN'T a negative thing. People have selfishly placed a negative connotation to the word so people will be more likely to accommodate others. Guess who those people had in mind to be accommodated.
- sharper130, on 06/03/2008, -1/+4....yes i guess the prof could hold the door and stop the shooter and truly is a hero
...what was the Chinese guy going to do, hold the entire school up while it fell on his head, gimme a break, a force of nature like a earthquake is unstoppable, unlike a gunman.
You can't compare the two events or the actions of people in each event. - gnixon70, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3What I I'm tripping on is his long explanation and justification as to why he did it. I guess whatever he has to tell himself to sleep at night.
- DangerMouse9, on 06/03/2008, -0/+3The real question is did he barricade the door after being the first one out like Homer did during the fire drill.
- Opiate, on 06/03/2008, -4/+6The anti hero crew gets to finally toot their horn, must be a proud day for Digg..
- inactive, on 06/03/2008, -0/+2Good to know. I'll send my kids to public school in hopes that they are killed every day.
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