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Teacher Accused of Burning Crosses onto Students' Arms

columbusdispatch.com — The Mount Vernon public-school science teacher who won't remove his personal Bible from the top of his desk also is accused of conducting a religious “healing session” during school and burning crosses onto students' arms.

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  • keltin, on 04/25/2008, -10/+16Battle on!
    • rgranger, on 04/25/2008, -20/+1Looks like freedom of religion is going to be pounced on again by the secular left. Separation of church and state. Are there still idiots out there who believe this is in our constitution? Read the damn document, it isn't very long.
      • lazerflesh, on 04/25/2008, -0/+13Yeah,.... I did. I opened it up and it said that there shall be no law that respects an establishment of religion- or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

        And in any case, this guy has the right to worship and believe however he wants. He Doesn't however- and noone else does either... have the right to intrude on others with said beliefs. A bible will never have a place in the classroom, and branding a cross into parents kids arms is definently against the law.
        • laughandsing, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2branding a cross is wrong definetly. Having a bible on his desk? That is his right as long as he does not force it on the students. I agree that he is by what he is doing, but christians have a right to carry their bible with them to their place of work. Who are you to say that he isnt allowed to have it in the classroom? It is not a weapon. It is no different than an atheist wearing a shirt depicting their beliefs or lack thereof.
        • reddfox321, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1laughandsing:

          nobody is complaining about his personal bible. In fact the superintendent said it wasn't about the bible on his desk.

          maybe you glossed over the part about him branding students with the cross?
        • worldchanger, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1I love how you've declared him guilty before the trial even begins.
      • Chassit, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6Amendment I

        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

        Seems pretty clear to me...
      • nigh7dagger, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Stop making all Christians look like idiots, dickmouth!
    • lazerflesh, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4" battle on "

      Are you one of those battlecry people ? You guys are ***** nuts, and militant. If you want your religious civil war you can bring it. I have no problem dieing, if need be to protect the liberties and freedoms founded by this country.
      • akphidelt, on 04/25/2008, -12/+1haha, you atheist have nothing to fight for... might as well just kill yourselves for us.
        • lazerflesh, on 04/25/2008, -0/+11Way to further support evidence that your group is scary, and militant. Thanks but no thanks I'm taking a stand against the threat of religious fundamentalism.
          • akphidelt, on 04/25/2008, -6/+0There's nothing scarier then someone who believes in no God.
          • Trykt, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Boogedy boo!
      • worldchanger, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1if you refer to BattleCry as in battlecry.com, you obviously haven't a clue what they stand for.
  • anderzole, on 04/25/2008, -7/+30another loser bites the dust
    • Karna101, on 04/25/2008, -1/+17“He said out loud, ‘Satan be removed from this man,'”

      lol! EPIC FAIL for religion
    • TheShad0w, on 04/25/2008, -6/+10I have nothing against his religious beliefs. He can very well keep a Bible IN his desk. As long as it stays there and isn't used as resource material for any lectures and his lectures remain unbiased. If he can do that. Then I don't care.
      • TheSabre, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2So, it's okay if he keeps it IN his desk but no ON his desk? What if it is on his desk but is not used as a resource material for lecture as well? Are you that offended by the sight of a Bible that it must be hidden from view? Wouldn't forcing him to hide his Bible be prohibiting the "free exercise" of religion which the Constitution clearly states will not be prohibited?
  • cheezintern, on 04/25/2008, -5/+121nothing psychotic about that....
  • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -12/+44Columbus Ohio is filled with hicks.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -0/+13It gets worse the further south you go. Southern Ohio is practically its own state.
      • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Cincinnati is okay, at least it doesn't feel like a strip mall.
      • jmpeagle, on 04/25/2008, -0/+12seriously wtf is wrong with Ohio....why does that state have more KKK members than any other state? How do they out confederate the old confederate states?
        • andy314159pi, on 04/25/2008, -0/+12That is actually a really good question. After the failure of Reconstruction, many southerners fled to the north in search of jobs and to avoid the new endemic poverty that had taken hold in the South. Most of these folks ended up in Indiana and parts of Ohio and they brought their cultural biases with them. They essentially diluted the northern character of the state of Indiana, which had given as many soldiers (per capita) to the Union cause as any other Union state.
          • zeebo, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Good point except reconstruction didn't fail, it was killed by KKK members in the corrupt bargain when the Republican party sold out its initial ideals in order to keep hold of the presidency.
        • screensnot, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2I think it has to do with the water supply, and the fact that Lake Erie is downstream of Detroit.
        • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Actually, you'd be surprised the racial hold that is seen in South Jersey as well. My grandmother, who actually grew up on a plantation in Georgia with many black workers moved up to Jersey and had always said that she's never seen so much racism in her life.
        • danielttt, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1 SCREEN SNOT Writes "I think it has to do with the water supply, and the fact that Lake Erie is downstream of Detroit."
          Another public school success storywith Screen snot here. Detroit is indeed upstream from Lake Erie. Central Ohio's rivers drain into the Ohio River. It's part of the Gulf of Mexico's watershed. It's geography and probably complicated for you. Ask someone with an adult mind to help. You might be able to figure it out.
          • screensnot, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1A.) It was a joke.

            B.) I said water supply, not run-off. Though, I wouldn't be all that surprised if you told me that you get your drinking water from the Ohio river.

            You, sir, are a jackass.
          • danielttt, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Humor is usually rooted in irony, wit or logic or sometimes buffoonery. I see below you believe pipes to convey drinking water from Lake Erie to Chillicothe...wow. You got the buffoonery end of it down. Too bad that's not by design. Still funny though.
      • Edrick, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Being from Chillicothe, I can support this statement.
    • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6he should move to florida and get the jesus license plate.
    • SyntraFTW, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Sad but true. Why do you think the Columbus Crew get low attendance figures?
    • jotate, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Hey, ***** you. We're not all hicks. Mount Vernon on the other hand is entirely hicks. They're a good hour north east of Columbus.

      And tragically, much closer to where I actually grew up. :|
    • sally7jane, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1There are ***** up people in your state, too. I am proud to be a Buckeye.
    • andrew522, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Columbus is completely fine - this article is over rural ohio Mount Vernon. THEY are pretty ***** up.
      Hell I live in the northern suburb Westerville (mercedes/bmw/lexus/saab car-driving areas) of columbus, have 15 meg internet, and am sane.
      • screensnot, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1The indicator of a city's progressiveness, is the connection speed available there.
  • ian937262, on 04/25/2008, -11/+215Fire him, move on. Separation of church and state, it's that simple.
    • AzureRise, on 04/25/2008, -2/+102Um, criminal charges too please.
      • yuanzhoulu, on 04/25/2008, -9/+2forget criminal charges. just burn crosses into his genitalia and forehead.
        • Lewie, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2no no, a dinosaur or better yet, ***** erectus
        • KingGorilla, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8Yeah, ***** being civilized.
    • FeartheKnighted, on 04/25/2008, -48/+3If only separation of church and state meant what you thought it means...
      • terracottapai, on 04/25/2008, -1/+39I'd like to know what the ***** you think it means.
        • FeartheKnighted, on 04/25/2008, -46/+2It means the government will not interfere with the proceedings of religious events *****. Try reading the Constitution for once. That goes for all you self righteous bigots who think they are so smart and anyone who disagrees with your viewpoints is wrong. ***** your closeminded selves.

          /rant.
          • acdcfanbill, on 04/25/2008, -2/+37Government like... State run education funded by taxes on privately owned property?
          • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -8/+6@acdcfanbill

            It pains me to say this but FeartheKnighted is absolutely correct.

            Separation of church and state, as defined by the American constitution, means that the state can't interfere with the freedoms of religious institutions. That's why they don't pay taxes but are free to participate in politics, even as religious entities (minister, priest, bishop, whatever).

            ""Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

            "... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
            - Thomas Jefferson.

            The religion out of public institutions argument is very new, only about 50-60 years old. That's when the church lost education because of the Public education system.

            Of course, many court decisions support this view (thank science) and most of the law is now based on these very important decisions.

            But the constitution disagrees. Which still makes this open to debate.
          • Maver1c, on 04/25/2008, -9/+2LOL at all the Digg-users who have never read the Constitution digging you down.
          • chlupululuu, on 04/25/2008, -1/+9it also means the government wont favor one religion over any other, which is what allowing religion in public schools would do
          • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3"it also means the government wont favor one religion over any other, which is what allowing religion in public schools would do"

            Not necessarely. Equal oportunity doesn't mean equal representation. If the state allows all religions, the state is not reponsible for the fact that most Americans are christian.

            What they don't have the right to do is ban one or many religions from school while allowing another one. As long as they are all equal under law, the state isn't doing anything wrong.

          • FuzzyBunny, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6The constitution is defined by the way the courts interpret it. Whether or not you agree with the way they interpret it is irrelevant, it's still the law of the land. Just as courts have interpreted the right to privacy from the 3rd amendment they have interpreted the 1st amendment to extent to keeping religious teachings out of public schools. Morally and ethically we can debate whether or not it's OK to teach religion in US public schools, but legally there is no debate here. The teacher broke US law by teaching this way in a school that is funded by taxpayer money.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2And the courts can change their interpretation of the same document at any time.

            That's why I said it's still open to debate. The constitution does not remove religion from public institutions, the supreme court removed religion from public institutions.
        • terracottapai, on 04/25/2008, -2/+11Yeah, that's pretty much the worst grasp of the Establishment Clause I've ever heard.
          Kudos.
        • yuanzhoulu, on 04/25/2008, -4/+4do you think the constitution matters anymore? do you think you have freedom of speech in this country, for one? i certainly don't feel like i do anymore.
        • zeebo, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5So the establishment clause means that the government cant interfere with the proceedings of a religious event? Woo! That was close. Human sacrifices to keep the sun burning another day are back on!
      • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+17That a government is not to support or oppress any religious doctrine? If that's the case, then the government official, AKA school teacher, is breaking 200+ year old law.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -10/+5How so?

          If you actually understand the first amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" then you would understand that we shall have no established religion in this country (which the "christians" want to do) and there should be no law restricting ANY religion from exercising their right to believe in whatever they want.

          Nobody can break a "200+ year old law" if there shall be no laws establishing or restricting religion.

          I still think zealots are assholes, but you gotta be intellectually honest. Think about what the founding fathers meant. Even though most of them were protestants, mostly of the church of england, they were intellectually honest, and they despised the idea that the king would decree that they were now anglicans. They believed that it was up to each person to choose what they believed in.
          • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2You know, I'll concede on that point. I never really considered that the constitution literally says "Congress shall make no law" rather than "The Government shall take no actions."
          • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -6/+2Terasiel, if you think that the 1st amendment is misunderstood, you should read the 2nd and 4th. Unless you actually read them for yourself, you can be easily misled by the media and politicians from both parties.

            Everyone has their own agenda. But when you read the bill of rights for yourself, you start to understand what this country really stands for. And it can be shocking when you compare it to how you've been misinformed from both sides.
        • frgough, on 04/25/2008, -4/+0Understand the language of the period. "Christian" is not a religion. Lutheran is a religion. The establishment clause was designed to prevent the formation of a national church. BTW, it doesn't preclude the formation of state churches of the individual states, and a number had them even after the U.S. Constitution was ratified.

          The current interpretation of Church and state is relatively recent, being pronounced thusly by the supreme court in the 1950s.
      • PoonGnarfler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12I thought that separation of Church and State meant...well... separation of Church and State. Silly me.
        • fredhag, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1"Separation of church and state" came from an interpretation and is a widely used summary. I think you lose too much of the spirit by using that crappy phrase.

          As much as I am against what that teacher is alleged to have done, I am equally skeptical of the school board because things like taking down religious material and whatnot is happening all the time as society matures but is usually not as publicly demonstrated. I think the school board did have some kind of agenda to execute their actions with the method an timing chosen. Again, I am not defending the teacher, but I think there may be complex issues at play. I also believe that the students in the Christian group have the freedom to conduct their actiivities that center on their religion (and this gets back to the separation of church and state point) -- they should have the freedom to exercise their religion, even on school grounds on "school time" within the confines of their student group, not beyond it and as long as they fully respect all those outside that group (and don't go around branding people with crosses!).
    • designer, on 04/25/2008, -24/+1There is no separation of church and state. The founders didn't want an official "Church" of the United States like there was in England. Atheism is a mental disorder.
      • Tryptomine, on 04/25/2008, -1/+10Oh? It is? Which?

        How about a documented mental disorder:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
        Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsəˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots schizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-, "mind"), is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction.
        • designer, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1You're saying atheism is reality?
        • saxreturns, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Well designer... we can say without a doubt that atheism lacks fantasy! Unlike some religions I could name...
      • nigh7dagger, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Designer, shut the ***** up! At least TRY to make your religion look good, ***** troll.
    • modusop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Aside from the mental disorder part, (and I say this as a supporter of our current view of separation of church and state) I'm pretty sure that not having an official church as England did was a core reason for including that in the constitution.
      • designer, on 04/25/2008, -9/+1It's not in the constitution. If you can please prove me wrong.
        • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8First Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"

          :) epic WIN
          • designer, on 04/25/2008, -10/+1Maybe I missed something but I didn't see the words "separation of church and state." Try again.
    • CptBuck, on 04/25/2008, -0/+9I'd say the whole assault thing is more important than separation of church and state. He could be burning the Coca-Cola logo on their arms and it would still be ***** up.
    • maroon1872, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2didnt he burn crosses into kids ***** arms? the article just goes on about the stupid bible on the desk. not about the possibly permanent damage to these kids skin. ***** man.
    • andrew522, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1unfortunately teachers' unions make that much easier said than done.
      you could even rape a student and not get fired.
    • ascendingPig, on 04/26/2008, -1/+0I feel guilty for having Dugg this comment. Prior to my digg, it was a perfect +200 diggs.

      Someone digg him back down to 200.
  • jwoelmer2, on 04/25/2008, -64/+3front page with 42 diggs and 4 comments?
    • ian937262, on 04/25/2008, -1/+18start commenting
    • OneLess, on 04/25/2008, -1/+20Wow, the requisite "front page with [some number under 200] diggs and [some small number] comments?" comment took this long to be posted? The morons are slipping.
  • nullx42, on 04/25/2008, -20/+112Mother *****. ***** mother *****. I just want to ***** this guy in the ass, and not even in a gay way. Just because its the only thing i know would be worse than death to him.
    • ANT1138, on 04/25/2008, -4/+53You don't have to use your own dick. Pay a crackhead to do it for you. :)
      • jackalsclaw, on 04/25/2008, -3/+25crackhead with AIDS and herpes
        • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -2/+22A transvestite crackhead.
          • nullx42, on 04/25/2008, -5/+18A gay, black, muslim one. Oh I can dream...
          • cerealjynx, on 04/25/2008, -3/+31A zombie gay black muslim tranvestite crackhead with AIDS and herpes.
            ...Oh man.
          • makkaveli19, on 04/25/2008, -2/+7MUPPETS!
          • WNW3, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6zombie gay black muslim tranvestite crackhead muppet with AIDS and herpes and gingivitis!
          • nigh7dagger, on 04/25/2008, -3/+0Um, Muslims can't be gay. Let's go with Hindu.
    • thedragon4453, on 04/25/2008, -2/+43Have the neocons taught you nothing? He may enjoy it :)
    • blitzkriegpunk, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6Do it with broken glass.
    • SuperJay, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Actually, the hyper-religious are often closet cases. He'd probably love it (not that there's anything wrong with that)
  • knightblade2oo4, on 04/25/2008, -6/+53may you be touched by his fiery appendages
  • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -4/+30And to think this happened in Ohio. Every time I have hope that my state isn't going to somehow both the next election - to think outside of the ***** myth of "social conservatism" and bible thumping, ***** like this happens. I guess that's part of being in the Jesus belt.
    • ian937262, on 04/25/2008, -2/+15The term Jesus belt scares me. Doesn't help I just watched 'Jesus Camp' last week though.
      • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -1/+10we're so worried about the muslim crazies when we've got christian crazies in our own back yard. people need to realize, allahu akhbar = praise the lord.
        • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -12/+1Ohhh so the Muslims are bad when you are equating them to Christians, interesting.
        • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+11masterm1nd - more like, anyone who has a strong enough relationship to their imaginary friend/daddy that they persecute, harm, deceive, and manipulate children and other individuals is bad in my book.
          • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -6/+1I agree with your comment minus the imaginary friend name call, but that doesn't explain why terrorists are allegedly
            'freedom fighters'. Plus numbers, ratios and moral equivalence doesn't agree with the analogy.
          • brufleth, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4masterm1nd - way to equate Muslims with terrorists ***** for brains. Are you honestly going to suggest that Muslims have been better at killing people than Christians? If you want to tally the death toll by religion it is the Christians who still hold the top dog spot.
          • BoneheadFarker, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And one man's god is another man's devil.

            Only difference is that terrorists and freedom fighters are confirmed to actually exist...
          • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Can you list your sources brufleth, because I've added up the numbers before and you're wrong.
      • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Why does a child brainwashing camp making little zombie voters for the republican party scare you?
    • Runningflame570, on 04/25/2008, -0/+9As someone presently living in one of the more backwater parts of Texas, I sympathize with you. Like I've said before..Texas, its like a fascist China.
      • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6With this recent event in the news, I think you guys are up one on us at the moment: Thank the The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board for shutting down Creationists. There is a glimmer of hope left my friend. There are still sane people in your state.

        http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5728581. ...
        • pakruse, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Yeah, I was fairly proud of Texas for that one, but you should read some of the comments...

          They weren't even trying to pass it off as ID. They were trying to get accreditation for a Master of Science degree in Creationism.
          I want a Master of Science in Timecubism, personally.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3I love the Texas Tourism Board's newest motto....

        "Texas. It's like a whole different country"

        As if they couldn't see that being a set up for a lot of jokes.

        I mean, West Virginia's "Wild, Wonderful West Virginia" was bad enough. Or Wheeling West Virginia's "Get that Wheeling Feeling" (which when I went to college outside of Wheeling, we turned into "Get that Squeeling Feeling")

        Texas, it's like a whole different country. This isn't America anymore, you might as well consider yourself in the third world, dude. Why did you come here anyway???" -- Is that the longer version of their new motto?
      • nigh7dagger, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0As someone who lives in Texas, I don't know what the ***** you're talking about. There are backwards people in every state, so don't single out your own.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3I meant to say "botch," not both. READING COMPREHENSHUN IZ FUN! :*(
    • modusop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I agree - I'm south of Dayton and I'm consistently ashamed of the news coming out of our state.
    • akphidelt, on 04/25/2008, -4/+0No that is not part of being in the Jesus belt. Honestly how many cases of teachers branding crosses on childrens arms have you heard?? This is the first, so keep your ridiculous comments to yourself... the majority of Christians are moral, loving Americans. There's bad seeds in every religion, especially Atheists.
      • ComradeGoby, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Atheism isn't a religion. Also, atheists aren't the worst ones for sure.

        • nigh7dagger, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Religion can be "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.". And many athiests on Digg far outstrip Christians with their fervor.
  • omegaworks, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1Is it Tokaji or Takaji?
  • Defuser, on 04/25/2008, -59/+13I've got an idea. Let's blame every crime that DOESN'T explicitly involve a Cross on Atheists. Seems only fair, right? I mean, if a psychopath doing something stupid with religious overtones means "all Christians are crazy" (as every Digg thread like this one inevitably ends up claiming) then whenever a psychopath does something stupid with NO religious overtones, it clearly reflects on the majority of Atheists.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -4/+37No one said all Christians are crazy. I will say, that this "Christian" teacher, most definitely is. Those "Christian" parents that didn't speak up about it, are also guilty. Those "Christian" students who fail to see the difference between bodily damage and faith worship, also fall into that category. With that, I can say there is a very high number of crazy Christians living around the Mt.Vernon area.

      Hmm, bodily damage. Wasn't Christianity big on flagellation at one point?
      • visionaryIX, on 04/25/2008, -10/+5You must be new.

        Digg thinks that this guy is pretty much reflective of the average Christian.
        • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -2/+15I'm definitely not new, I just try to play devil's advocate here and there. I'll be honest, I have absolutely zero respect for individuals who believe in a cosmic self-fathering white jewish zombie space daddy.
        • Risingashes, on 04/25/2008, -2/+15Believing in imaginary people, for whatever reason, makes you crazy.

          The difference being that religion is an accepted form of insanity due to it's positive community building and the fact that it's so ingrained in the psyche of so many people that it'd be counterproductive to try and fight head on.
        • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -1/+11My guess is the average Christian doesn't really give a damn about their faith, except for an hour on Sunday and anytime they have to bubble it in.
    • krawkula, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Digg him down, but whatever happened to good old fashioned crazy?
    • haikuFU, on 04/25/2008, -14/+18All religious people are ***** mentally handicapped. It's sad that so many of you have such an illness.
      • Risingashes, on 04/25/2008, -3/+12The major problem is that it has a weird legitimacy based on the extent of the illness. If you simply call it what it is you're labeled a 'hater' or dugg down etc etc.
        Thankfully eventually it'll be phased out. You need to remember that it wasn't too long ago that the majority of people believed in the bible word for word. (Even though the church kept it in Latin so that no one could actually read it except for church officials. But logic has never meshed well with religion.)
      • jeff715, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Congrats, you've just shown us how mentally handicapped YOU are by stating that.
    • jamesmcv, on 04/25/2008, -4/+14No, that isn't fair. This guy did what he did in the name of, and because of, Christianity. You could only draw a parallel if an atheist did something similar because of their atheism.
    • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -4/+12All Christians are crazy.
    • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -3/+10i wonder if you say the same thing when a muslim does something bad.
    • Willy0Panhandle, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6The only difference between John Freshwater and other Christians is John Freshwater truly believes in his convictions.
    • shunterender, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7Logical fallacy much? You need to realize that if he was Christian and shot some people, we wouldn't blame it on the fact that he was a christian. The fact that he burned a Mother ***** CROSS into kids' arms seems to be an act with religious overtones. Hmm?

      Not all Christians are crazy. Just people like this *****.
    • Phyraxus, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2If the teacher burnt "There is no god" on their skin, you'd be on to something, but then it wouldn't make sense for an atheist to do something so inherently irrational.
  • adadadada, on 04/25/2008, -6/+1well gosh!
  • AzureRise, on 04/25/2008, -5/+28I wanna "heal" this ***** with this lighter I have. Lemme burn some religious symbols into him.
    • PoonGnarfler, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8Burn the Noodly Appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster into him. After the healing he will be the first heathen to be turned and praise "Ramen"
      • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3haha when you're almost done, proclaim you ***** it all up and can not have such a blasphemous symbol representing his Noodley one and just cut his skin off
    • AndreiOttawa, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2"We'll need a blow-torch and a pair of pliers"
  • kovac9478, on 04/25/2008, -14/+2its a trap
    • dicknuts, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3How in the ***** does that lame meme apply here?
  • nketchum, on 04/25/2008, -4/+32He must have taught some very interesting and unique science classes.
    • breadfred, on 04/25/2008, -2/+24Exactly my thoughts -how can someone who so strongly believes in dogma's subscribe to the basics of science? i.e. proving your theories and such before accepting them? And then, if a better theory comes along, chuck the old theory and accept the better theory? How in God's name can this guy be a science teacher?
      • frgough, on 04/25/2008, -8/+0Perhaps because they understand that as a discoverer of truth, science is actually quite limited in what it can do. True science can only discover the truth of physical processes which can be predictably reproduced in a laboratory environment. In fact, much of what passes for science today, actually isn't because there is no experimentation involved, merely observation and hypothesis and debate. That's what Aristotle did. The revolutionary part of the Scientific Method wasn't observe, theorize and conclude, Aristotle and his followers had been doing that for centuries. The revolutionary part was experiment.
        • breadfred, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Jeez you need some education. Science is limited in what it can do? You mean scientists do not except a new theory which they have devised until it can validate independently reproducible outcomes? I guess you prefer to believe in an unsubstantiated hypotheses made up of random thoughts? All (ALL) scientific breakthroughs have been, in time, substantiated with verifiable evidence. Dogma's, which have been around for God knows how long, are not science, however ling they have been around. I believe in truth - however uncomfortable it might be, it is better then believing in something (or someone) that can not be proven, or disproven, to be correct.
      • evodude, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1He'd be a great science teacher! No more evil-lution, finally our kids can learn about real morality! Like branding people. And stoning homosexuals and non-virgins! After all, if there is one thing that science needs more of, it's jesus.
      • danielttt, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Maybe he went to school. Maybe he received his teaching credentials. Maybe he was hired by the school district. He probably got the job in a pretty conventional manner.
    • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -3/+36the tests must have been easy. every answer is "god did it".
    • Zuggy, on 04/25/2008, -1/+9The Dinosaurs were on Noah's ark too.
      • dreamstretch, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7Actually I've been reliably informed by my local Jehovah's Witnesses that the dinosaurs died in the great flood.
      • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Why does science even waste its time looking for answers to any of these questions when all the answers have been provided for us? Oh, and god put plans for 'how to build a city' in the bible too, we didn't just come up with that idea on our own you know...
      • CyberSol, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1how come the unicorns got left behind then?
    • GreenGrassyNoel, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1If teachers were paid more schools would not have to hire, and try to retain, teachers like this one and many others who are not qualified.
  • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -14/+11While I don't like the idea of religious zealots preaching to students in public schools, I have to wonder if this isn't yet another example of religious rivalries being played out in the public sector by a religious group that happens to have control over the public sector at the moment.

    I know that they are now spinning it up about the black woman from Colorado who made the fraudulent phone calls to Texas authorities claiming she was a 15 year old girl forced to marry a 50ish year old man, and have sex with him, and abused by him. I understand that when they raided those polygamist wierdos, the police escorted a church bus that had "First Baptist Church" painted on the side.

    I don't put it past different religions to take advantage of having public officials who are members of their churches to attack other religions, if only to somehow validate their own fundamentalist views. Extremists and fundamentalists don't care about reason, logic or fairness. They have to win at all costs, and will "defeat" all other religions.

    • scamper22, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3two ways to take this:
      1. we need to make the schools more secularized
      2. give students/parents the choice of which school to go to. If my kid came to me and told me of this nutty teacher, it would be quite easy to take my business elsewhere.

      • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Being able to take your kids to any school within the county should be a fundamental part of our public schools. It's a PUBLIC school .Therefore, if the school of your choice is not adequately meeting your childs needs or desires, he or she needs to have the right to go elsewhere - one better suited.
    • frgough, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0Replace religion with ideology and you have summed up an important aspect of human nature. There are many posting here today that are fundamentalist extremists, even though they are not religious, and seek to defeat all other ideologies now matter the cost.
    • RogueGenius, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0You may be right, but I don't care. Ban it all. Religion is primitive nonsense and it has no place in public schools. Poison the minds of kids in the privacy of your own homes, but keep it out of schools and away from my kids.

      P.S. Yes, I live in Columbus and am appalled, disgusted and ashamed.
  • precaryus, on 04/25/2008, -4/+18Question is, why didn't they fire this wacko years ago? Maybe Ohio is becoming the next Kansas?
    • jayson040, on 04/25/2008, -3/+4No, Ohio is by far worse than Kansas. I can list several reasons.

      1. The 2004 Presidential election was decided by Ohio.
      2. The Ohio State football team. (I'm a Michigan fan so this one is personal)
      3. My favorite guitarist was shot on stage in Ohio.
      4. They stole the Rock & Roll hall of fame from Detroit Rock City.
      5. The students shot while protesting.

      The list goes on. The only cool thing in Ohio is Cedar Point and that was on a man made island off Ohio.

      By the way, my license plate says "OHIOSUX". I guess this is just my biased opinion. If you couldn't tell, I really hate Ohio.
      • moonguidex, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1I like that they call themselves Ohioans..
        It's the only cool thing they have.
  • vuke69, on 04/25/2008, -3/+117I'm not sure what scares me more, the fact that a teacher did this, or that said teacher is a SCIENCE teacher.
    • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+43I'm going to take a wild guess and say he doesn't approve of evolution.
      • Shuukyoku, on 04/25/2008, -2/+18You know, this gives me an idea. We put a sign on the edge of a cliff that says "Jesus waiting at bottom. Be not afraid." If they jump, its survival of the fittest. If they don't jump, then their faith was a ruse to begin with and they need to be shoved.
    • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness
  • patpl22391, on 04/25/2008, -48/+5Let's spin this as all Christians are crazy nutjobs. Yes, Digg, Yes! Lets show Christians that their largely practiced rituals of burning crosses into the forearms of children and then physically abusng them is wrong!
    That's all you read on Digg, these sick perverts who claim to be Christians are some held up as examples of our hypocrisy!!
    • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -3/+26Unfortunately for Christians, for every MLK there are 20 of these nutjobs.
      • thestranger, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Or perhaps you should make like Jefferson Davis and secede from Christianity, because when you apart a group small (friends) or huge (Religion) you can't get upset when people bring up negative thing that a member of your group did, especially, in the name of that group. Or at the very least have some church heads condemn this. Think of this happen do to something secular from a secular group.....they would have every leader and group members condemn it.
        • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -0/+12Yeah, but there are lots of Christians that think this guy is a victim. Thats what worries me. They think branding people and "healing" them is normal, but homosexuals are an abomination. ***** up *****.
      • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -6/+3sources?
      • flip2trip, on 04/25/2008, -13/+5So basically you're saying that 95% of Christians are nut jobs? Bigot.
        • thestranger, on 04/25/2008, -1/+9I mean religion at its core is irrational and above reason--that's what faith is. And people identify and live there life by the irrational without reason (definition faith) and without faith there is no religion. So yea to me that seems a little crazy.
          • flip2trip, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1....irrational without reason
            That's your OPINION. Alister McGrath and Lee Strobel are former Atheists who became Christians after reasoned research into Christianity. That's just to name a couple, there are many, many more so your argument is invalid.
        • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -9/+1Thestranger, 95% of the 6.6 billion humans on earth believe in a religion.
          • thestranger, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6A higher percent believed that Earth was the center of the Universe in dark ages doesn't make true, or any less irrational. That is a fallacy.
          • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1That's not my point. My point is that not nearly everyone of the 6.6 billion of us can be crazy. It seems like it yes, but no.
          • flip2trip, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1@thestranger---how convenient for you to use an orange and compare it to an apple.
    • Danby123, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3Cristians? Digg? what is this??
      • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -3/+14Ever since Expelled, they've started coming out of the wordwork. We need to slap them down with some rationality and hard science and sen them back to the works of their bronze age goat herders.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4Pat. are you defuser by any chance? Scroll up and relax.
    • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -9/+5Actually, "christians" spin themselves as a bunch of whack-jobs.

      I'm a catholic. Notwithstanding the catholic priests who like little boys, you never hear a catholic spouting off all kinds of hatred and intolerance. The Catholic High School I went to 20 years ago actually taught us about other religions, and in a basic and rational way. It is the methodists, the baptists (especially) and the pseudo-christians who go to "super churches" (where they have food courts and 4 level parking garages) that are out of their minds.

      I'm guessing that this teacher didn't really do any of what they are alleging, but he is just a moderately religious person, and the nutjobs who like extreme fundamentalism can't stand him. Or the atheists are offended that he has faith in something, and they are the ones attacking him.

      You have to understand, moderates are never the ones to go on witch hunts.
      • jamesmcv, on 04/25/2008, -6/+5So you're saying you're a Catholic, that Catholics aren't intolerant, but "the methodists, the baptists (especially), and the pseudo-christians...are out of their minds"? Do I need to explain why you're an idiot?
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -3/+5No, you wouldn't comprehend.

          Being religious and being a citizen are two different things. I can tolerate all religions, as far a faith and peity are concerned. As a citizen, I cannot support people who are trying to create a state sanctioned system of intolerance.

          But, please. Explain to me why I'm an idiot. If you do especially well with your explanation, I'll let you know what my IQ is. Here's a teaser, it is in the same range of Bill Clinton's and Madonna's (I know, I never would have guessed Maddona had an IQ over 140).
          • jamesmcv, on 04/25/2008, -6/+3Nice backpedaling. You establish Catholics as a beacon of morality and tolerance, and yet, in the same paragraph, claim other denominations of Christianity are "out of their minds".

            I'm particularly fond of the IQ statement. No doubt the first three questions were found on a banner ad. I was wrong in my previous comment; you transcend idiocy.
          • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -3/+4You shouldn't comment on these issues jamesmcv, because you obviously can't differentiate between religious zealotry and moderate beliefs.

            I bet you believe that anyone who is a conservative is all for this Iraq war thing, and anyone who is liberal wants the US to surrender to terrorists.

            Living in a black and white world feels safe until you are confronted by reality and are forced to recognize that the world is way too complex for your intellect to handle.
          • jamesmcv, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1So I'm the sort of guy that sees things entirely in black and white (I don't even know what you're refering to here), and yet you're free to make blanket statements like "moderates are never the ones to go on witch hunts", or "baptists...are out of their minds", or "we Catholics are moderately religious people with proper educations". It's incredible how illogical you are. Having said that, I'm glad that you appear to at least recognize the merit of science.
          • 47f0, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4PhilLesh - something you utterly fail to grasp with your massive IQ is that your moderates are the platform that elevates the extremists. For starters, you claim that moderates do not engage in witch-hunts. History and human nature suggest otherwise. Indeed, witch-hunts, crusades, pogroms - all backed by your so-called moderates. You remind me of a pack-a-day smoker who's got the sheer stones to lecture a two-pack-a-day smoker. "I can believe in my fantasy, but you can't believe in yours." Nonsense. Once you surrender reason to plunge into the world of fantasy, you have no logical basis for critiquing any one else's fantasy.
          • flip2trip, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Unfortunately IQ scores do not equal wisdom. That was not a shot at you personally, just an observation.
      • flip2trip, on 04/25/2008, -14/+1You know something--you are worse than an Atheist--I would expect those comments from them but not from a supposed "brother" in Christ. You sound like a 'lukewarm' believer--you need to check yourself and find out what side of the fence you are on. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but your comments are really offensive.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -2/+10Spoken like a true "christian". You make my case.

          Catholics have a personal faith, we don't try to force it on others, and we don't condemn others for not following our faith. If we did, you people that call yourselves "christian" would be condemned for vanity and avarice. Fortunately, we don't care what you do, we believe what we believe, and anyone else can go down whatever path they choose even if it only leads them to falling short from what they believe will be "salvation".

          Now, as far as being a citizen of the US, we tend to think you zealots are ruining it for the rest of us citizens, because you are extremists and nutjobs.

          Catholics are not "fellow christians" as far as you define "christians". You guys are crazy. Catholics are simply searching for an understanding between God and themselves. You people are trying to convert and crusade. We catholics gave that ***** up after the inquisition and the crusades. We EVOLVED from medieval times. You folks seem to want to go back to medieval times.
          • flip2trip, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1Please accept my apologies I had no idea that apostasy had been so ingrained into the Catholic Church. I will not make the mistake of calling a Catholic a brother in Christ again, thank you for opening my eyes.
        • arrrapirate, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8"from them" hahaha yeah careful flip we atheists are coming in the night for your children, we're gonna brainwash the next generation and turn them all into godhating homosexual liberals - WATCH OUT!

          phil is right by the way, you totally did just make his point
          oh, and you know you've ***** up if the atheist is taking sides with the catholic guy against you
          • flip2trip, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1It's ok, phil set me straight--I refer to my reply to him above.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3arrapirate, maybe I'm not speaking for all Catholics. But having been educated by jesuits and oblates of saint francis, maybe I'm om the "informed" fringe of catholicism.

          However, I have never been entirely against atheism. I've even been fully supportive of agnosticism. Maybe it is because I've been taught all of my life that we have to find our own belief. So, with that thinking, it is possible to find that you believe that there is no god, is always part of that possibility.

          And, as far as whether there is an afterlife, or if our actions here affect how we live life here are concerned, as long as you understand that your intentions, and the actions you undertake have an affect on your life and other people's lives, those are basically the sames things.

          Screw the government of the catholic papacy, but don't consider catholics in the same light as "christians".
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4You know the problem with your "fellow christians" flip?

          You don't take modern concepts and incorporate them into your beliefs. You are not much better than muslims who want to go back to the time of Saladin, nor do you view the world any better than the Wahabbi clierics of Saudi Arabia. You are a religious fundamentalist.

          Have you ever thought about the universe? I know, God created the earth in 6 days, and rested on the seventh, and the world is only 6,000 years old.

          However, if you've ever looked up into the sky, and saw those shiny things off in the distance, that idea begins to break down.

          Do you own a telescope? I do. I've seen Saturn and Jupiter and I can tell that they are far away.

          So then, I have to ask myself, where is the here that is here? Read this slowly, because it might be too hard to "believe", but where is the here that we live in? Think about the entire universe. Even if you don't believe in the "Big Bang", where is the existence, how does it happen? We have to be somewhere, there has to be a place where we exist. Are we actually a model of planets rotating around each other in God's Office? Or his Library? Or his MIND???

          How can there be a something from nothing? Where did all of everything happen, from nothing? The only thing I can say is that Physics is probably our god. Nothing existed, and because nature abhors a vaccuum, something had to happen to destroy "nothing", and then here we are.

          And I hate to tell you Christians, it had to have happened BILLIONS of years ago, not 6,000 years ago.

          If it makes you feel better, God is the law of physics.
          • flip2trip, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1"Nothing existed, and because nature abhors a vaccuum, something had to happen to destroy "nothing", and then here we are."
            Thank you for the laugh. Nothing came from nothing huh? See how far you get with that theory. And when did you hear me say the earth was 6,000 years old? Don't assume you know me by reading a few comments I make.
    • arrrapirate, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4perhaps you'd like to submit a story of a noble, righteous Christian, one who abides by the laws that separate church and state, one that doesn't molest children, force their beliefs on others, claim willful, joyful ignorance in the face of a landslide of evidence for evolution, and lives by the rules that they preach?

      i know some, and i'm sure you know some too, but thats not news, and thank god for that.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Please do not equate the molesting of children by ***** catholic priests with the fundamentailist extremist "christians". These are two entirely different issues.

        We Catholics are moderately religious people with proper educations who happen to belong to a church that has a history of being it's own form of government. Most, if not all of us, do not agree with our "church", but have our own personal, private beliefs.

        So called "christians", most of the protestant religions are zealots. Their church establishment isn't the problem, like with us Catholics, it is the people from those sects and cults who are fundamentalist, extremist and exclusionary.

        Catholics are usually not racist, or bigoted. These sects are notorious for their followers being absolutely exclusionary, bigoted, prejudiced and hateful.

        Catholics believe in and support the separation of church and state, all those fringe groups calling themselves "christian" believe that God will inherit the earth, and he will do it first as head of the United States.

        Molesting children is reserved for the catholic priesthood, which does not represent people who are catholic. Being a hateful zealot and extremist is reserved for people who call themselves "christian".

        Please don't put catholics into the same camp as "christians".
        • SophieKaijuu, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1"Catholics are usually not racist, or bigoted."
          Guess you've never been to Texas.

          "Molesting children is reserved for the catholic priesthood, which does not represent people who are catholic. Being a hateful zealot and extremist is reserved for people who call themselves "christian"."
          So, it's not right to catagorize all Catholic priests as molestors, but it's perfectly fine to catagorize all other Christians who are not Catholic zealots and extremists? Nice.
          • flip2trip, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1Careful he's "enlightened" so his bigotry is justified.
    • Crossmenjeff, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3the point isn't to make every christian seem loco, the point is that this man is a public educator in a taxpayer funded school. i could care less who worships what, but i'm not paying for a teacher to assault students and push his religion unfairly upon his students. if he wants to discuss religion on an FCA trip, thats fine. If he is going to do it in science class, or math class, or history class, or any other class than bible 101, then we have an issue.
      It seems you're trying to make it seem like he is faultless, but i assure you if your kid was burned, doesn't matter what lucky charms shape they put on him, you'd be pissed. Furthermore, if someone was to yell things about monsters in your kid just because they have the sniffles, i'd hope you'd react accordingly. i mean after all he is supposed to be a science teacher... not an exorcist.
    • breadfred, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7Man, you need to relax. No-one in this thread has said anything negative about Christians in general. Only about religious nut-jobs. They happen in every religion, and I dare say you might even find one or two crazy folks among the atheist.
      If you feel strongly about your faith you should stand above these nut jobs.
    • evodude, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Every time a wacko Christian gets called on his *****, another equally wacko one somewhere gets a hard-on at the idea of being "persecuted."
    • RogueGenius, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0Spin it? I'm sorry, but what is to spin? Did 'Digg' make this CHRISTIAN whackjob burn kids? No. Christians look like whackjobs because many, if not most of them ARE WHACKJOBS! I'm sorry, but because of them this country has nearly been destroyed. Now you want me 'be open minded' about burning children? I don't think so.
  • Jovensdesciple, on 04/25/2008, -57/+2This teacher is a great American. Lie about him all you want diggers, he is good and you are only worthy to burn. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
    • Devotia, on 04/25/2008, -1/+306/10. Needs some caps lock cruise control and a little paranoia. It can't hurt to worsen your punctuation either.
      • brownsound00, on 04/25/2008, -2/+12well, he did spell disciple wrong in his user name. i'd rank him as a grade B+ troll, and a grade A jackass.
        • brownsound00, on 04/25/2008, -2/+8and i know the jackass part is a bit harsh. but im just basing that on his comment history... mostly this.

          "Obama should end it and admit that he is a Muslim. He should end it and admit that he hates America. He should end it and admit that he hates all white straight males... That's all he has to do to get the democratic nomination."

          I seriously don't understand why they think he is muslim. uhhh obama = osama? yea... well, seems like enough evidence. hmm, on second thought, i guess this is how they accept creationism...
          ah, it all makes sense
    • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8Hail Eris
    • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Praise Hojo!
    • meells, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Defuser? Patpl22391? Are you guys seeing this? Why are you not in this thread smiting your insane brethren? If Christians want to not be treated a lump group, you need to clean up your own house first.
    • ahhell, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2How many times to I have to block this lunatic before he goes away?
    • sumothumbs, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1BAWWWWW!
    • Chassit, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1This man is a child abuser, at least if the burning allegations are to be believed.
  • imnotminkus, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12I live in Columbus, saw this on the front page of the Dispatch yesterday, and couldn't believe it. Though I'm guessing it has a lot of the usual media hype and exaggeration added to it.

    Good news is, I'm from Cleveland, so I've already got plenty to be embarrassed about. And from a high school that's been in the national news several times in the past few years for various "scandals" greatly blown out of proportion by the media. fun stuff.
    • andy314159pi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3You shouldn't be embarrassed about Cleveland. It's a good city.
      • wooFmeoWoinK, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6Yeah, its amazing how low that cities self esteem is.
      • imnotminkus, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2ok, I will admit that Cleveland isn't nearly as bad as people like to think it is. and it's not just cleveland itself; cuyahoga county's election "situations" and ohio's nomination of hillary are also some of the things I like to whine about, and also things like cleveland's school system (along with other things, but I guess things like that are a problem in a lot of big cities). so, not all cleveland's fault.
        but after moving to columbus, I can definitely see the difference between the two.
      • DevilInPgh, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Four words: Mistake on the Lake.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Good on her way to becoming like Detroit (anything past E.22nd after dark is no man's land). Alright, jesting aside, we do have the Cleveland City Club, which is an amazing forum that you can't find nearly anywhere else.
  • CaptainWeasel, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8What the *****?
  • MrAlexanderZ, on 04/25/2008, -6/+31Somewhere in Heaven, Jesus H. Christ, "SONAOFABITCH! Another one uses my name in their purpose to preach *****! Lucky for that bastard that I forgive kindly, but cut that ***** out!"
    • flip2trip, on 04/25/2008, -12/+2You're just sad.
      • brownsound00, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8No. this is wrong, and you can not defend it. forcing religion onto other people is stupid. it is a man-made construct in the first place. it is nothing worth branding crosses over. would god really want that? i dont think so.
        • flip2trip, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1He didn't brand a cross onto anyone. The original story was about the teacher refusing to remove his Bible from his desk and now we get all this sensationalism and made-up accusations against a man who it's been shown to be a favorite among the students. If he had branded someone with a cross he would have been arrested.
    • brightshadow525, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3What's the H. stand for?
  • Atheno, on 04/25/2008, -16/+0Everyone grow up. Unfortunately this is the way of "North America" so so speak out against this ***** when you can, but be proactive towards your children and tell them we're not all like this
  • SonicSexy, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4I live just south of Columbus in Dayton, OH, and I gotta say ***** like that never happens here. But yeah, you go too far east or west of the line straight down from Columbus through Cinci, and things get REAALLLYYY bad. I wanna drive up north and strangle this *****.
    • SyntraFTW, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Dayton is in no way "just south" of Columbus.
    • ParanoydAndroid, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1I used to live in Beavercreek, and although the area isn't as outright ***** insane, there's plenty of religious undercurrent all around Southern Ohio. including Dayton/Beavercreek and the rest of the Miami Valley. You'll notice it even more if you're gay, trust me.
    • Variz, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Dayton is nearly directly west of Columbus by a little more than an hour.
  • andy314159pi, on 04/25/2008, -7/+22Thomas Jefferson disavowed religion.
    • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+10Shh, Pat Robertson might hear you. Everyone knows George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and James Monroe never made anti-Christian/Pro-Deism remarks.
    • minox, on 04/25/2008, -9/+1I don't understand the point of this statement.
    • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -1/+13Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
      -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

      But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
      -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

      In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
      -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

      Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
      -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

      many more here:
      http://nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
      • frgough, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1Which, I guess explains why Jefferson was a slave owner. Or do we only idolize him when he says things we agree with?
        • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Slave owners were predominantly Christian. Overwhelming would be a better word for it. The Bible is layered in pro-slavery down to individual laws stating the conduct and conditions of it.
        • doyoulikeworms, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2He wasn't proud of being a slave owner. He actually had kind of a debt problem, so he couldn't afford to free his slaves. I'm not trying to justify his actions, though.
  • sneedo, on 04/25/2008, -11/+27***** religion.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -2/+5***** the RIAA?
    • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I say a woman pray before eating her KFC the other day... KFC.
      Wow.
  • Donoram, on 04/25/2008, -3/+16Don't get me wrong, but branding children is the perfect way to find them if they skip class!

    "Caught er'! This one belongs to St. Mary's school for girls. See, there's the eagle and the cross burnt into her flesh right there!"
  • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -21/+3"Why can't we have school sponsored prayer?" "Why can't we talk about Jesus to the students?" "Why can't we say "Praise God" in the morning announcements?" Two things: The constitution and people like him. Gotta ruin the image of what little moderation is left in the government employed religious protesters, huh?
    • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -15/+1The Constitution doesn't say that teachers can't talk to students about Jesus, moron.
      • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -1/+13if it's a public school, the first amendment says he can't.
        • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -4/+1Actually, the first amendment doesn't say that.

          "Amendment I
          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

          The First Amendemt says that congress shall pass no laws establishing a religion, nor shall it pass a law prohibiting the practicing of any religion.

          Each state is free to decide how they wish to allow religion in their school system.
        • cadon35, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Thomas Jefferson would disagree w/ you, Phil
    • Diderotten, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4The crazies and the constitution is worded are the only things? Why would they need to learn something that is considered false by so many people? How about how wrong it is to bring personal bias into a place of learning? Would this make it okay for science teachers to teach against accepted science because of his religion?
      • Diderotten, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3*edit:"the way the constitution is worded", "because of their religion"
    • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -0/+11The entire point is simple: A teacher is a government employee. A teacher preaching to their students is a government entity administering a single religious belief. You want to talk about morons? Try someone who becomes a teacher without acknowledging that their job is to teach what their told to teach and little else. He should have been a preacher rather than a teacher if he's going to be so damn religious about his life.
  • Netik09, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6Sneaky, sneaky sir.
  • kawaiirobo, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12Though I'm not religious, I usually find myself defending another's right to whatever religion they want, and though I will always feel that way, I will certainly not defend this *****, not this time.
  • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -18/+3Regardless of the story, what is up with the "won't remove his personal Bible" part? Is this writer suggesting that this teacher oesn't have the freedom to keep the book of his religion on his desk?
    • Crossmenjeff, on 04/25/2008, -1/+15IN his desk. not on it. schools have strict rules on religious displays.
      • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -9/+3There is absolutely NOTHING against keeping a Bible in view. That would be 100% against the Constitution to say that a teacher can't keep it on his desk. As long as he doesn't preach it to his kids. Granted, it sure looks like he WAS preaching it. Which is wrong. But the way this was worded, it seems like they were trying to sday that him simply having it on his desk is a violation of church and state, and it isn't. The amendment was specifically set up to PROTECT people's right to do that, not forbid it.
      • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -8/+2To put it into perspective...saying that a teacher in a public school can't keep a Bible on his desk because children might see it is like saying that a public school teach can't wear a cross around his/her neck. Or wear a yarmulke. And they can.

        As long as they don't bring attention to it, or try to force the students to talk about it, they have EVERY right to do it.
        • BoneheadFarker, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Would you agree with a teacher placing a Satanist's Bible on there desk?

          How about a Book Of Shadows?

          How about a Quran?

          How about the Book Of Mormon?


          If you deny any of these books, then you MUST deny the Bible. It's only fair.
          • bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2OK...to answer your question...no I don't deny any of those books. As long as the teather does not call attention to it. Same with the Bible.

            And you can be DAMN ***** sure that if a Muslim teacher had a Quran on his desk and got in trouble for it, the ACLU would be frothing at the mouth in their lawsuit.
    • Terasiel, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3It's to back up the believability that he could actually be a religious zealot. Government officials aren't suppose to parade their religion. He should know that as he chose to be one in the first place. Either way, the media did put a bit too much attention on the bible aspect.
    • SophieKaijuu, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Personally, I really could care less about that bible on his desk. What made me say "what the holy *****?" was the teacher branding crosses onto students and teaching creationism when it was not approved by the school.
      • worldchanger, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1you need to work on your reading skills, child. there was no mention of creationism.
  • jmpeagle, on 04/25/2008, -3/+3whew...I thought this was the real mount vernon near me and got all freaked out because that religious $hit is not cool around here
  • namore3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4They clearly misunderstood the branding of the cross into the kids arms... This man is just a super fan supporting his favorite baseball team...
    • DevilInPgh, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Dugg for OBGYN-burning-UK-into-uterus-during-hysterectomy reference.
  • Crossmenjeff, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2looks like we're gonna need another timmy
  • poolqueue, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7pics or it didn't happen
  • copypastry, on 04/25/2008, -2/+14Religious indoctrination and scarification are the same thing. Abuse. The only difference is that one is tolerated(embraced) by society and the other one isn't.
    • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2New law: No one under 18 is allowed in a church.
      Poof! Religion is gone in one generation.
    • jeff715, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Abuse how? I could argue the same for the public education system.
  • snoox, on 04/25/2008, -2/+5if yew gawt no sins, there ain't nuthing ta be fearin' of
  • cerealjynx, on 04/25/2008, -2/+8Yeehaw, that'll learn 'em reel gud.
  • hypher, on 04/25/2008, -8/+5Perhaps the kids in his class were practicing magic?

    Sorry -- but was I the only one to think of HP?
  • SkyyShot, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8I wonder how many students he's slept with? Or did his priest diddle him?
  • furiouszebra, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3He's like the reverse Glen Benton.
  • oldcyborg, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6how DO these people get to be teachers????? I'd really like to know..... And what they make an hour would be wonderful for most people. Off every holiday, and their personal days..... If I had more patience, I'd have been a teacher, and now I would be something else, and living off the dough........lifes a bitch, and then you die........
    Cyborg
    • wejmahtin, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1yeah this guy doesn't even deserve the title of assistant crack whore.
    • SuperWinner, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2They all got a personal reference from Ben Stein.
    • worldchanger, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1innocent until proven guilty. anyone can sling accusations and get it in the media.
  • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -4/+22there is an increasingly disturbing trend in this country towards religious fanaticism. relative to other industrial countries, we have less people who believe in evolution. many people actually believe god founded this country as a christian nation. many of our elected officials share this kind of religous bigotry and fervor. chris hedges wrote a great book "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America" on this growing phenomenon.
    • scamper22, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3it's not surprising.
      When control of the state becomes something powerful, people are going to fight for it.

      For those on the right, they 'know' if they let the 'left' get into power, the government will pursue athiest/feminist/gay agenda. This is highly influential on education where the left's hatred for school choice only furthers this belief.

      For those on the left, they 'know' if they let the 'right' get into power, the right will force their social/religious beliefs.

      So facism as we call it is the only result. People using the state to force their beliefs on everyone else.
      Consider urself fcked no matter who gets elected.
      • PhilLesh69, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Fascism died. America is being destroyed by corporatism.
    • brownsound00, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4its messed up. sometimes i wish we were back in the 90s...
    • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1You're an idiot. We've only gotten less religious. Only a hundred years ago on out 99.9 % of people believed in a higher power.
      • FairDinkumMate, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Reference?
        • masterm1nd, on 04/25/2008, -5/+1Best/second best college professor I ever had. He was a liberal but was actually accurate and insightful. Honestly, I guess remembered a hundred years, but In ancient times, nearly everybody believed. Two of the major factors in the increase in atheism were technology like computers and 911 was a big one. Both can be found in wiklipedia.
        • Valmorian, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0I'm sure the fact that the western nations no longer put people to death or jail them for blasphemy helped too.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3I think it has to do with the current attitude (bitter?) people have regarding our representative government and economic conditions. When you feel the government either a) doesn't care what you say and b) doesn't care about you at all, you get jaded. The government should be fearful of the people, and it really isn't. The government should also represent our will, and consensus says it does not. It makes matters worse that you see decent people, who may not have been entirely educated regarding taking out loans, losing their houses etc and watching mega corporations like Bear Stearns getting bailed out with our tax money. These are dark times; we're virtually collapsing as an empire, and those elected to navigate the choppy seas our too busy securing their own life rafts.
    • Suricou, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Consider this: If you believed that all other religions were responsible for damning people to eternal torment, wouldn't you consider it your duty to combat them? And with the stakes as high as eternity, would not all means by justified? So believes will lie, cheat, manipulate, break the law, frame other religious for serious crimes, murder, and do absolutly anything at all if they believe that it will save souls. Better to kill a heretic today than to allow him to steal the salvation of someone else tomorrow and thus condemn them to a fate far worse than death.
  • TBITS, on 04/25/2008, -3/+6you think he could brand THUG 4 LIFE across my chest. gotta represent the JC what what. smite'n some sinners and ho's.
  • vestlandsfanden, on 04/25/2008, -2/+9lol religion!
  • MacintoshSauce, on 04/25/2008, -25/+1pintomp3 said, "if it's a public school, the first amendment says he can't."

    WRONG! The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion NOT freedom from religion, you atheistic stupid bastard.
    • pintomp3, on 04/25/2008, -2/+13as an individual, he's free to believe whatever he wants. as a government employee, he can't enforce his beliefs on others. next time use the reply button, i'm sure jesus won't mind.
    • andy314159pi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+10The doctrine of the separation of church and state, which is enshrined in our constitution, guarantees you the right to be free FROM religion that is imposed by the state. The teacher of a public school is acting on behalf of the state and therefore cannot promote any religion.
      • ahhell, on 04/25/2008, -5/+1The Constitution tells me to speak my mind and right now my mind is saying "***** off".
        • Tryptomine, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Duly noted. Next.
        • SophieKaijuu, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Wonderful argument. You've really opened my mind.
  • jp12380, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8Wow, not sure that burning a cross into your skin is Biblical.
  • atlanticworld, on 04/25/2008, -6/+16Some questions from a British Christian:

    1. Does the US legal system operate from the premise that an individual is innocent until proved guilty? Many of the comments here seem to have moved from reading the accusations to pronouncing on the teacher's guilt in one leap.

    2. Is the separation of church and state the same as the separation of religious belief and state? In Britain, teachers are not allowed to initiate discussions about their personal religious beliefs but are permitted to respond to questions that arise from their students in the natural course of events should they wish to and as long as they do not demean the beliefs of others. The policy seems to work, in my experience.

    3. Is the preoccupation with religious symbols (Bibles on desks, etc) not an example of a legal principle gone mad? Every individual (including every atheist) has a religious world view. Is it just, and does it contribute to the common good of society, for the state to forbid every citizen it employs from carrying objects related to that world view into their place of work? If the answer is yes, then the principle must be applied consistently. This must mean a ban on crosses round the neck, Muslim headscarves, Sikh turbans, stars of David and copies of Richard Dawkins The God Delusion (a very religious book), not to mention the thousands of text books and works of literature studied in schools every year that express religious ideas or a religious world view. Such a society strikes me as quite repressive, not to mention dull.

    4. I'm sure that no-one would object to schools implementing robust health and safety guidelines that cover the appropriate use of electrical branding devices on students, regardless of the shape of the brand!

    4. Does the polarization of the issues raised here not provide an opportunity for people of good will of all beliefs to work together for the common good? It does seem that the radicals on both side of the issue in the US seem to be the only ones whose voices are heard. Where are the moderates?
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8Where are the moderates is a perfectly good question, unfortunately I think they're immaterial. I could ask the same question regarding Britain, "Where are the moderates in regards to the Islamification of your home nation?" Likely diluting the indigenous culture of the Queen's Empire to make things more accommodating for our backwards fundamentalists. I will clarify and say that not all Christians or Muslims are backwards or fundamentalists, but unfortunately, the moderates don't matter when you have policy being stretched and manipulated by the extremes. Same thing works for non theists. There's a good many of us who feel content in turning a blind eye to the underhanded manipulations going on by the devout, but by doing so we help no one but ourselves. We avoid confrontation only to let those who with malicious intent go unhindered. There are also those of us who have gotten so fed up with this nonsense over faith, and gods, and who's thousand year old manuscript is the "real" word of our heavenly space daddy (hell, it's bankrupting my country and leading thouands of Americans and Iraqi's to their death) that we can't sit idly by and watch the dilusionals further muck things up.

      Thank whatever powers you believe in or don't that this debate isn't left to the moderates, otherwise you'd have a rogue nation led by fundamental religious zealots with the most powerful arsenal of nuclear weapons pointed towards the global mass of "non believers." Saying that this isn't ALREADY the case is another story..
      • BN2L, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2"Where are the moderates in regards to the Islamification of your home nation?"
        The fantastic media over here UK gives a voice to the moderates and a loud voice at that, our media is far less polar than than in the U.S. We do have a lesser Fox news in the form of the Sun newspaper but far right and fundamentalist policies are deemed unacceptable by the vast majority of publications and people respectively.

        For example, I was watching BBC news yesterday concerning the London Mayor election, the two main parties chatting away about their policies etc at the end one of the candidates says 'Just don't vote for the BNP (British national party,very far right), going on to say he'd rather a vote for his main competitor than the BNP. His opposing candidate agreed and said the same thing stating 'we don't want the fascists to have one seat in government'.

        Add to that our government isn't a case of center left versus right as it is in the U.S., more center left versus center right its almost fustratingly moderate but I think better than the alternative.

        Dugg for lively debate.
      • atlanticworld, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Hi,

        I simply don't agree that the moderates can't win the day. I think we/they should be speaking up clearly and persistently. If we don't, the lunatics will win.
    • inhaler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3..and no, I did not digg you down, and I advise against it. I think you bring up some valid questions, but it's 3am here, and I have to work in 6 hours, otherwise I'd dive in.
    • colincornaby, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6"Does the US legal system operate from the premise that an individual is innocent until proved guilty? Many of the comments here seem to have moved from reading the accusations to pronouncing on the teacher's guilt in one leap" Sure it does. For courts. We're not courts, so we have the freedom to presume whatever we want.
      "Is the separation of church and state the same as the separation of religious belief and state? In Britain, teachers are not allowed to initiate discussions about their personal religious beliefs but are permitted to respond to questions that arise from their students in the natural course of events should they wish to and as long as they do not demean the beliefs of others. The policy seems to work, in my experience." It's pretty much the same here. You aren't really allowed to tell people what religion they can be, but you are allowed to talk about religion. I had world religion classes at my public high school.
      "Is the preoccupation with religious symbols (Bibles on desks, etc) not an example of a legal principle gone mad?" I'm not really sure that's the problem here. Branding students would seem like the larger problem.
      "I'm sure that no-one would object to schools implementing robust health and safety guidelines that cover the appropriate use of electrical branding devices on students, regardless of the shape of the brand!" Yeah, like don't brand your students ever. I'm sorry, but school isn't a place for branding kids. It even feels absurd to have to write that.
      • atlanticworld, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1My last point was obviously poorly expressed. I simply wanted to say that no-one should ever brand a child with an electrical item at school or anywhere else. That is the real (alleged) crime, not the shape of the wound.
    • Suricou, on 04/25/2008, -0/+33. This issue isn't for all workplaces, only government offices or those recieving tax funding. Privately owned organisations, including private schools, can practice whatever religion they like as much as they like. But if there is government endorsement involved, religion should be left at time - all that is asked is that the teacher do his worshiping when off-duty, and box his faith away so long as he is acting in an official capacity on behalf of the public school.

      5. Cowering from the radicals, knowing that if they show themselves both factions will attack.
      • atlanticworld, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1With respect to point 3, I don't think that is quite the point of the separation of church and state. Clearly the framers of the Constitution did not anticipate government representatives "boxing their faith away" while at work. Indeed, they refer explicitly to their faith when they refer to "nature's God" in the founding documents of the Union.

        Separating church and state must surely mean that the state and its agents/employees do not, when acting in that capacity, do what the church alone should do - preach and teach the Bible, convert people, baptize them, administer the sacraments, etc. And at the same time, the church must not do what only the state can do - raise an army, levy taxes, administer courts of justice, etc.

        I do think it's important to keep this distinction clear.

    • kurtwinter, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2In theory, the US is no different that rest of the 1st world. In practice, the US is no different than the rest of 3rd world, except that we are fatter and have nicer stuff.
    • geffo, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1exactly what right does religion have to govt funded education time? this shouldn't even be considered. we should all be shouting get out of our science classes Christians and move the mumbo jumbo back to your temples of salvation guilt and denial.
    • lazerflesh, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Wow, I wish I would have read all the way through your comment before I dugg it. Atheism is not a religion it is a LACK OF RELIGION.

      I don't care what you nutty people do, think, or eat- but I don't want my buildings blown up or your posters and hand pamphlets in my face any longer.
    • RogueGenius, on 05/06/2008, -0/+1"4. I'm sure that no-one would object to schools implementing robust health and safety guidelines that cover the appropriate use of electrical branding devices on students, regardless of the shape of the brand!"

      The point is: the shape of the brand could only have been a cross (maybe a crescent or a star of david). Nobody else would ever DREAM of branding a child, so your observation isn't really germane. From the inside of your, likely mainstream church you ruffle automatically when the word 'christian' appears in a negative context, but you fail to see the horror that your fellow, non-mainstream Christians inflict on children, other adults and society at large. This is absolutely vile and you should be the first on the attack, not be defending.
      • atlanticworld, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1I agree.

        I didn't express myself very well in the original comment on my final point.

        My point was simply that no adult should brand a child. That is the issue. The shape of the alleged brand is secondary. It should not have happened at all.
  • sensical, on 04/25/2008, -6/+9God (whatever that is) gave us reason, not a book. Anyone can create a book, even crazy people.
    • ripple123, on 04/25/2008, -4/+3No one gave you *****. And you don't owe anyone ***** for giving you **