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89 Comments
- inactive, on 04/13/2009, -13/+54See? Even the danged Somalis have had it up to here w/Joisey politics!
- inactive, on 04/13/2009, -14/+51I don't care if the target was a Democrat, NO ONE does this ***** and gets away with it.
The SEALs are in the area... If I were President, they'd have a new, covert mission right about now. - kemp34, on 04/13/2009, -8/+33So a U.S. congressman goes to a known disputed country where violence is rife, probably paid for by tax funds, he gets caught up in some cross fire, which is not to be unexpected, and the U.S. government is supposed to send in a brigade of commandos to exact some sort of revenge (again, on the taxpayer tab, the more effective the mission, the higher the cost, i.e. in preparation, intelligence gathering, etc.)?
How about instead of this sort of reasoning, you tell sitting congresspeople they don't go to war ravaged areas but at their own risk?
I can understand making sure you get him out of there safely, but sending a brigade to exact revenge? Come on. - inactive, on 04/13/2009, -6/+24Crossfire?
Maybe you know more about this but it seems to me that they were targeting the US plane. - LonesomeFighter, on 04/13/2009, -17/+34You know, if Clinton didn't pull the US out back in the 90's these Somalians wouldn't feel so powerful
- thinkb4utype, on 04/14/2009, -3/+17Fox news had some details and all I can say is this guy has got balls. Payne was in Somalia because he is on an Africa aid committee. When the captain was rescued and the three pirates were killed, some news media in Somalia asked him to comment and he said America has the right to defend it's citizens. He said that in Mogadishu (the capital city of Somalia). He must have know that these guys might take some pot shots at him, but he didn't say America was wrong or anything like that, he said, in so many words, we will shoot back. I hope the people in NY keep him in congress, he's the kind of guy we need there.
- swordedge, on 04/14/2009, -1/+13There have been 14 failed attempts to create a stable government in Somalia since dictator, Mohamed Siad Barre fled the country in 1991. Those failures were attempted by everybody from the US, Europe, Neighboring African states, Arabs, The UN, etc. Nobody but Somali's can create that government. If someone does succeed in creating a stable government, he will probably be a dictator and hate the US with passion. This would be superior to the current situation where there is no government and piracy is rampant due to that fact.
And yes, there is a 15th attempt underway right now. Odds of success.... very very low. It would be easier to drill a hole in a diamond.
Clinton leaving did not empower Somali's much. They have been kicking EVERYBODY out for many years. Even they know the reasons for failures are more due to the sheer chaos of the country than any other factor. - inactive, on 04/13/2009, -14/+26I think they'll get some dvds, or maybe a gift certificate to starbucks.
- inactive, on 04/13/2009, -44/+55Donald Payne is thought to be safe and on his way home to the U.S.
Well the Democrats think that the people of other nations are just as dumb as Liberal Americans here and will lap up all their BS.
When will they learn that you can't play barbies with everyone in the world.
When will we just STOP THE FOREIGN ENTANGLEMENTS???
Stupid CBC!!!
Payne probably thought he could use the minority card to win over a bunch of rancid, dirt poor pirates;
promise them education, a green card and health care...
LOL
EPIC FAIL. - atomheartmother, on 04/13/2009, -20/+30Nothing like a couple of mortar rounds to make someone question their own flowery idealism.
- LonesomeFighter, on 04/13/2009, -5/+14the thing i saying is that we went in, then we pulled out. The pullout method does not work. It makes the enemy think, and they prob think right, US can not be defeated militarily, but however politically. Kill a few soldiers, make it public, and the civilians get pissed and the Pres. pulls out in fear of political suicide. Now the enemy feels powerful and everyone follows. That's why Iraq is such a ***** that it's been. Saddam watched Somalia closely, and even bought Black Hawk Down for troops. Then they put weapons throughout the city and thankfully we didn't pull out prematurely... yet.
Interviews even show that Somalians think they are powerful for making us pull out. - mdepaul, on 04/13/2009, -1/+9The point I'm making is that there is no Somalia, its just gang warfare between different warlords and factions. For example the guys we helped kick out of power in 2006 are mostly on our side now because they are more moderate than the extremists we helped create. Its completely different from Iraq which had a centralized authoritarian government. there is no state of Somalia just anarchy and a bunch of small constantly changing personal fiefdoms who are constantly fighting.
- Thuban, on 04/14/2009, -0/+8He's from Jersey. They just wanted to make him feel at home.
- kaelyiesta, on 04/14/2009, -1/+8To avoid being perceived as close-mindedly partisan, you might want to be a bit more general and speak of most US politicians rather than just the Democrats.
Our entire foreign policy is based around neo-imperialism and has been since the definition of neo-imperialism has been around(we may have even been the impetus for the word's definition, but that's just speculation on my part). Both sides(and their lobbyists) have driven this nonsense onward, just from different angles. - em00guy, on 04/14/2009, -1/+8I'm going to assume your trolling for controversy because the alternative explanation shakes my faith in elementary education.
- inactive, on 04/13/2009, -7/+14So you wish death on democrats? Ever wonder why people don't take you seriously? You sound like an awful person.
- SerifTheRobot, on 04/14/2009, -4/+10Somalia is cruising for a bruising.
- plainOldFool, on 04/14/2009, -1/+7Somalia keeps it real?
- stone42, on 04/13/2009, -4/+9rbiii i think there has been enough covert missions don`t you ??
for those who are going to start getting all "patriotic " and want to start bashing the drums again have a listen to this
http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/5190
its an interview with Keith Harmon Snow his website is
http://www.allthingspass.com
or go and have a read of some of John Stockwells stuff on Africa
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/AfricaWat ...
its not really such a surprise that any people in any African country are taking pot shots at any western politician if you ask me . - heatherwight, on 04/13/2009, -8/+12You're right, the congressman was not too bright on that one. People need to use their heads when they travel. However, we cannot allow a US leader be attacked. It would show the world that the US is weak and can be attacked.
My personal thoughts are that you go and rescue the guy and then majorly reprimand him (through media/public opinion/etc) when he gets home. I just couldn't endorse letting the guy remain in danger. - em00guy, on 04/14/2009, -1/+5I think it's fair to say that the foreign policy souffle has been poorly baked by dems and repubs alike over that past few decades. Second, piracy in Somalia is the direct result of foreign over-fishing of one of the failed states' only natural resources( no excuse for piracy nonetheless, The Navy did the right thing). The congress man was in Mogadishu as part of an African summit to discuss aid to the country. While direct aid may be ineffective. It's in the correct spirit. If you or any one else thinks we don't have an interest in stabilizing that government then you should prepare yourself for decades of Piracy and a destabilization of the African horn that will drag the military into yet another quagmire.
- mdepaul, on 04/13/2009, -7/+10If you think it'd do anything to go into the ***** which is Somalia today you should look at what happened to Ethiopia, who invaded with our support 3 years ago and lost.
- aapala, on 04/14/2009, -2/+5Here's the CNN article. It's slightly more in depth.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/13/somalia.att ... - inactive, on 04/14/2009, -2/+5That was a warm welcome.
- akula89, on 04/14/2009, -1/+4so what's the alternative to not pulling out of Somalia? continue to suffer troop losses? for what? give your head a shake man. the best solution is not to get involved in the first place if at all possible.
- UK4Life58, on 04/14/2009, -3/+6I feel as if I have read this before...
- em00guy, on 04/14/2009, -1/+4How serious are you about destroying a country of innocent people to eliminate a minority threat and how liberally would you apply this foreign policy position around the globe?
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3Middle East good place to live, lots of resources like sand, oil, and Lionel Richie fans. It is good. I am job.
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -2/+4I vote we start with nukes. After all, if we start bombing and there are survivors, they're gonna be ***** pissed.
- thinkb4utype, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3I got the state wrong, Payne's a Democrat from New Jersey.
- inactive, on 04/13/2009, -5/+7Okay, fine. Do it overtly.
Better? - nytrokiss, on 04/14/2009, -4/+6What is he doing there! Some place to visit.....
- saranagati, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3you know, after the past decade or more of the US government not giving a ***** about what happens to me... i can honestly say, i really don't give a ***** about what happens to them. In fact I'm more annoyed with having to read some article about someone almost dying rather than being annoyed by someone shooting at someone in a our government.
- akchrs, on 04/14/2009, -9/+11Stupidest thing I've read this week.
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -2/+4maybe you should worry more about the bipartisan effort to destabilize America and the piracy of our nations wealth by the federal reserve.
- Va1kyrie, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3Maybe the Somalians just don't want to get obese on Dunkin Doughnuts!
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3Don't they know the godfather doesn't like it when you try to whack the bag man?
- stone42, on 04/14/2009, -0/+2an excerpt from John Stockwells (ex CIA who ran operations in Angola) web site which throws some light on America and somalia ,you need to read the full article as this is just the last paragraph
"America's Pledge: A Sectarian Dictatorship
Finally, the American-endorsed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia and the imposition of sectarian warlord-dominated government on the country are unlikely to lead to a democratic development. The U.S. government's absurd support for the warlords in Somalia and an Ethiopian government that is at war with its own people and American leaders' anti-Islamic orientation has deepened that population's antipathy towards the USA. America's instrumental collaboration with other people's terrorists (states and non-state actors) has undermined the purchase of its democratic rhetoric. In essence, the hallmark of America's bankrupt policy is the conspicuous gulf between its democratic rhetoric and its support for thugs, warlords, tyrants, and venal politicians in the Horn of Africa and elsewhere. In the minds of most people in the region American foreign policy and practice has become synonymous with dictatorship and arrogance, and most people believe that those are the core values of the America government. Consequently, the US government has lost the hearts and minds of the Muslim people all over. America's gifts to the Somali people in the last few years have been warlords, an Ethiopian invasion, and an authoritarian, sectarian and incompetent government. Recent discussions of a broad-based government and a reconciliation conference based on the TFG model will not deliver legitimacy for the occupation or produce the necessary peace and common Somali agenda. Supporters of the proposed conference to be held in Mogadishu can not seriously expect a genuine agreement since the capital is under Ethiopian occupation and is dominated by the sectarian militias of the TFG leadership. Participants of such a conference will be handpicked by the Ethiopian occupiers and their clients and therefore will be charade. The alternative positive sum game is a civic centered program which does not seem to be on the cards for now, but this is the only avenue to reconciliation, and through which the people's hearts and minds could be won and which might eliminate all types of terror. "
the full article here http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Somalia_A ... - inactive, on 04/14/2009, -2/+4Protecting the locals my ass, they are running off with the money for themselves.
- stone42, on 04/14/2009, -0/+2i think you have watched too many hollywood war "propaganda" films .
maybe you should try looking at the real reasons that the US is interested in starting wars all over the place including the Middle east and Africa (there are huge resources in Africa ), as usual it is not what they tell you its about .
they will tell you they are Liberating the people of Iraq from an oppressive Dictator when its a geostrategic power play gaining control over resources and land for more power and more control . and "uber patriots " only see it as their Team America spreading peace and crushing the baddies all over the globe for the common good .
man wake up and smell the coffee its the same BS over and over again "they shot at one of ours they must be evil ,lets kill em all " such as you seem to advocate because you allow yourself to be manipulated by nationalistic patriotism ,its just crap mate i`m afraid and you`ll be manipulated time and time again because emotions over-ride the thinking process and stop you actually thinking.
the people who control your countrys forces don`t give a ***** about anyone but their own and that doesn`t mean you or any ordinary person anywhere .
go and read "War is a Racket " by Brig Gen Smedley Butler and you`ll see that it is no different now , or read " The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and its geostrategic imperatives " by Zbigniew Brzezinski if you want to see what things are really about .
so no overt is not Better ..... - JaseFace, on 04/14/2009, -1/+3You really haven't thought this through. There was no one to fight or subdue. It was chaos; anarchy. There were dozens and dozens, perhaps hundreds, of warlords. Do you really think we could have turned, killed or subdued all of them? There was really no military objective to accomplish in Somalia, we were there ostensibly on a peacekeeping/humanitarian mission. There wasn't much alternative other than to pull out. There was no way to fight back because we had no one to fight back AGAINST.
- diskoh, on 04/14/2009, -4/+6You are what happens when conservative bloggers "link to digg."
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -1/+2Dugg for everybody to see the Democrat's true colors.
Where is all the anti-war sentiment Democrats? Now that your guy is in charge it's okay huh? - Antiman1337, on 04/14/2009, -0/+1You aren't really that smart xD
- akula89, on 04/14/2009, -1/+2land based pirates!
- tsotha, on 04/14/2009, -1/+2There was nothing for them to do except get shot at. Since we weren't there to rape the land (or the women) like a country interested in colonies, there was no benefit to staying.
We can knock this problem down from the air (for awhile, anyway). There's no point in having boots on the ground. - theviceroy, on 04/14/2009, -3/+4Ok now the tinfoilly part of my mind is thinking "Why is ***** going down in Somalia NOW?"
Shouldn't we be focused on the massive level of violence on the Mexican border and the possible collapse of Pakistan? Those geopolitical situations seem a lot more dangerous to the stability of the world than an already failed state filled with yahoo warlords fighting each other. - theviceroy, on 04/14/2009, -3/+4Oh, silly me, I thought we killed some pirates.
- inactive, on 04/14/2009, -1/+2Isn't he the bag man?
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