What is Digg?Sponsored by HTC
You and You and You. view!
youtube.com - You don’t need to get a phone. You need a phone that gets you.
58 Comments
- heaintheavy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Then why were they at the table? Everyone has a reason to negotiate.
- orangesims, on 10/12/2007, -10/+31"Interestingly enough, that's the same position of the Democratic party. But don't question their patriotism!"
and i thought the republicans said that negotitating with these people was unpatriotic... hmmm - jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27"and i thought the republicans said that negotitating with these people was unpatriotic... hmmm"
They believe whatever benefits them at the moment. - iching, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16A worthy read on what is going on behind the scenes. Another article from CSM has more details such as this.
"Moayed Abu Subieh, a Jordanian journalist who has written about such meetings, says that for the majority of those fighting, their foremost demand remains US withdrawal. Previously, insurgent groups had called for a timetable for withdrawal as a condition for laying down arms, but that demand appears to have solidified into a call for immediate withdrawal."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1207/p01s04-woiq.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I got buried because the left wants to hear that talks with the insurgents are meaningful and progressing well, while the right don't want to hear about talks at all, only body counts of dead insurgents. Black or white works well on Digg, grayscale less so.
I'll piss all sides off further now by stating that there's at present not much point in talking to the insurgents, and the US should instead concentrate on talking to their enablers: Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran.
Those DO have issues the US could use as bargaining chips, and if the flow of supplies can be turned down sufficiently that the insurgents start hurting, then it might be possible to negotiate with the insurgents.
The only other option I can see would be to put the weakest faction (the Kurds? the Baathists?) in charge, give them all important posts in the ministry and army, and unabashedly favoritizing and supporting them and letting them do whatever they want. However, that's not a recipe for peace and stability, it is a recipe for rulability, as the favored faction would be entirely dependent on US help (and hence loyal). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@spartan777
The US government is $8.7 trillion in debt, and it's increasing at $2.1 billion per day.
Putting it into perspective, that's about $30,000 per American citizen.
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ - zediker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13the funny thing is, Ark7 probably still thinks Bush's administration is conservative... BWAA HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
- Aidenag, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13LOL@Ark7..... shinning example of why your party lost in November.. Cant compare Dems wanting to bring our troops home alive, to the Bush admin negotiating with militia's responsible for the deaths of American servicemen and women. Well ok, you can but, it just looks dumb.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13You mean like the FBI and CIA are secret organisations but everybody knows about them?
The talks were secret when they were happenig, mmmmkay? - Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12So the Bush administration DOES negotiate with terrorists?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10OK, let me restate that: the insurgents have no reason to make any CONCESSIONS in talks.
They know perfectly well that the US is pulling out, and that will give them the opportunity to get at the real meat & potatos of the conflict: killing members of other creeds and competing groups within their own creed.
At present, the only thing the US could offer any of the insurgent groups that they'd be interested in, is help in ethnically cleansing their own turf, and as that's unlikely the groups simply want the US out.
They're not interested in talks because the US has nothing to offer them. - taotehue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8what do you think the national debt is all about. Thats how much money we other countries, like China who keep loaning us money.
- recipher, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13spartan777, do some reading mate and get yourself educated. Things don't abode well at the rate our country is going.
- tobybuk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What this shows is it doesn't matter how much military firepower you have, the actions of your enemy ultimately cannot be answered with a gun. Eventually you have to sit down with people and negotiate your differences. We're at the stage where the American Gov. is slowly realising this and it’s a very, very bitter pill to swallow.
The problem is the ‘insurgents’ have the upper hand (and always have). They’re confident that the US Government hasn’t got a blank cheque to continue the war adinfinitium. All they have to do is bide their time and they’ll see the US retreat with their tails between their legs. The more ‘Infidels’ killed and thus coffins on the nightly news, just hastens their inevitable departure. The best the US can hope for is an excuse to leave sooner rather than later and for this they’re totally at the mercy of the ‘Insurgents’.
I'm reminded of the images of GWB landing on the carrier with the 'Mission accomplished' banner displayed. Any sane person would have winched at the childlike mindset displayed that day. Ditto for the American flag covering the Saddam statue.
Really the only good we can hope will come of this mess is that people will think twice before they illegally invade another sovereign country - its just not worth the hassle. - spurtle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"If the military was allowed to do what it was meant to do than we wouldn't be having this problem... "
I totally agree. It's a shame Rumsfeld and Bush didn't listen to the generals. - IrwinFletcher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"in the end this is all about defending Israel, which should deal with it's own damn problems"
Ladies and gentlemen, let's give a nice round of applause to Mr. Mel Gibson! - freff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I don't see why Azur got buried like that. He's pretty on the money. I'll just clarify one thing:
The insurgents have no reason to negotiate...with us. It's an indication of how much our spear of influence has dimmed in the region that these talks have broken down right at the time that we are making our largest diplomatic push in this war. The insurgents either walked away, or made demands that they knew would be unacceptable to us. Either way, it amounts to the same thing; there are other power brokers in the region that they are dealing with, and the US has found our position in the region marginalized again. - rheaume, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11Ark7
Digg you down... haha thats a good one...
BLOCKED BITCH - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Part of the U.S.'s problem is forgiving debt while other countries hold onto ours with two fists.. :/
Well and the big mac and haliburton. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Not disagreeing with you spurtle, I hate agendas... Everyone had one concerning this war. And everyone lied about their part in it. The Dem's had one, they voted for it than stood against it.. The repubs voted for it and tried to make a buck out of it...
That is why general's lead the troops and the politicans talk to the people.. the two should never mix. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@daxsymbiont
let me say this slowly so even you can understand, saddam was nothing but a rapid dog that deserved to be buried...
The insurgents are nothing but filthy pigs that need to be taken out..
Of course America doesn't know what being a hero is.. We simple fight for your right to live, your right to have a voice. You are correct, we should let people like you be slaughtered while your family is raped.. kkthanx for reminding. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yep. The insurgents have no reason to negotiate. They state demands, but are not willing to make concessions, because they know the US is leaving.
- jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9We need to be out now. The US has spent all it's credit in the past 6 years. We aren't world leaders and need to stop pretending that we are. We have major domestic issues to deal with.
- CorpT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I can usually figure out what someone is trying to say, but you've managed to be completely incomprehensible.
Slow down. Take a deep breath. Learn what a run-on sentence is and try to make your point clearly and simply. - Aidenag, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9saldy this wouldnt be the first time a bush has broken bread with Terrorists.. Hell he was biz partners with bin ladens brother, even while we were using bin laden to go after the Russians.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy Nothin like using the CIA for your own personal profits..
- spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm obviously not saying there's no national debt (what planet do you think I'm from). Its just that a statement like "The US has spent all it's credit in the past 6 years," makes no sense.
I agree with Volatile though. We forgive other countries' debts and they only become more in debt than they were before we helped them out (look at the African countries we've helped). And the Philippines still owe us millions for saving their butts during WWII. - freff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"If they're secret talks, why do we know that they're breaking down?"
The cynic in me wants to say that it's because they are breaking down, and therefore are worth more to the Bush administration as newspaper fodder to silence his critics who say that he hasn't done enough on the diplomatic front in Iraq, but I'll refrain from going that route.
I'll just say, "Interesting question", and that hopefully we can find a way to reengage with other insurgent leaders, and find a way to have productive talks. - jaycliche, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"You mean like the FBI and CIA are secret organisations but everybody knows about them?"
No they aren't. They never have pretended to be secret. What they DO is secret. There are secret groups, but they aren't. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Of course it is going to break down, the insurgents don't want peace..
They are nothing without murder - maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2interesting to see a glimpse into whats going on under the table in Iraq. It is at least a little heartening to see that there are leaders of the insurgancy who are looking for an end to it
- VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The Iraq war has been arguably stimulative on the US economy. "
At one time war was a profitable business. But since America doesn't make much of anything here, we have to buy everything over seas, so all it does is make us suffer... We get nothing out of war these days... War no longer makes jobs for us... - spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1sorry jer2, I can't please everyone at once.
- keyrat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3There's a big difference between Al Qaeda (a terrorist organization) and the insurgent groups. The insurgents are all about "stop occupying my ish", while the terrorists are about finding the US wherever they may be.
The insurgent groups are a direct result of US occupation of Iraq while Al Qaeda exists and came to exist independently. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The insurgents are the same breed as the pathetic terrorists..
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i see no facts disputed. iraq didn't threaten directly and politicians admitted it. do you go that far to live in a fantasy world out of reach of politicians and common people? you only try to convince yourself and others just to feel better in a position of power. save yourself first then try to be a hero.
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Good god I hope not. Ever check the interest rates on those things!?
- highwebl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Cue the JFK motorcade shot
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1>What this shows is it doesn't matter how much military firepower you have, the >actions of your enemy ultimately cannot be answered with a gun.
What a lovely sentiment. I refer you to US actions in WWII as a counter example. The only thing that the violence has shown was that someone should have put a bullet in Moqtada El Sadr's ear long ago.
>The problem is the ‘insurgents’ have the upper hand (and always have). They’re >confident that the US Government hasn’t got a blank cheque to continue the war >adinfinitium.
What the insurgents count on is surrender monkeys who don't have the will to fight on. It is a smart strategy apparently. Mainstream America despises your weakness. The Iraq war has been arguably stimulative on the US economy. George Bush's carrier landing won him re-election. Mission accomplished. - VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2He has a point, those people don't deserve to live without fear. The females don't deserve to go to school. They don't have a right to have their land restored to it's former situation... Heck, they don't even deserve their own government..
Ok troops out and let all those people be slaughtered! - jefree, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Stop spending my tax money on an idiotic war almost half way around the globe. All that money and manpower could be spent on domestic infrastructure and education and investment at home. Very sad. What a waste. Was stupid to start with. I don't care about world standing or nationalistic pride. The oil will still flow because the sellers need buyers. It would be less expensive than the war we are fighting anyway. There's just going to be a blood bath in the end and the US has to accept that they caused it, but I didn't personally and I don't want to go down with the ship that currently sinking. And in the end this is all about defending Israel, which should deal with it's own damn problems. There's a complete breakdown of historical and logistical understanding happening. As for negotiating with he enemy, it has always been a factor in trying to settle a war and you try to keep it a secret so that the factors going into negotiations remain the same when you come out.
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Interesting read. Sure would have been cool if we had started working together to build a better Iraq instead of continuing to blow each others ***** up.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5LOL i thought you couldnt talk to the enemy or that was a dem thing
Eh it is a start. - Ark7, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Really? It's a "shinning" example? Can't say I'm familiar with that phrase. But you're right, I'm the one who looks dumb. Especially when you consider the fact that members of the Democratic leadership have been meeting with the terrorist leaders of Hamas since the election in secret. But yeah, bu$h is teh evilz hilter z0mg!1!!
- freff, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@zediker
He was conservative enought for his party until this past November. Now he's persona non grata all of a sudden within his own party. Funny how that stuff happens. - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I voted you up in the world leader topic but man are you an idiot? I am sorry only that I cannot take back my previous vote. At least I dugg you down once...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1You are right that a solution to Arab Israeli is long overdue. I support mass deportation, of the Arabs and restoration of the kingdoms of Judea and Samarra.
- zediker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@Ark7:
"Especially when you consider the fact that members of the Democratic leadership have been meeting with the terrorist leaders of Hamas since the election in secret"
Its called diplomacy, perhaps you've heard of it.
Kind of funny that you portray this as negative considering the current admin has been in secret diplomatic talks with the iraqi insurancy for years as pointed out by a newly released digg story. - anachronaut, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2And that bin Laden brother (Salem bin Laden), who was very closely tied to Bush, met a mysterious death right near Randolph AFB in Texas.
It's kind of interesting how often "inconvenient" people have ended up having mysterious fatal mishaps in Texas... - coachace, on 10/12/2007, -11/+8So much for the "secret" talks...
- VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3The war was ***** up because of people like you. If the military was allowed to do what it was meant to do than we wouldn't be having this problem...
-
Show 51 - 58 of 58 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is