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Russian President Calls Halt To War

edition.cnn.com — Russia's president has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, the official Russian news agency Interfax has reported. "I have reached a decision to halt the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace," President Dmitry Medvedev said, according to the agency.

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  • mybeat, on 08/12/2008, -5/+52Good move.
  • WordsnCollision, on 08/12/2008, -4/+72Actions speak louder than words...
    • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -7/+21Now wait and see... Saakashvili every next day will start with moaning that he is not safe, he is being threated, he is being watched, he is being provoked, he is being attacked etc.
      paranoid behavior predictable, easily manipulated but unfortunately dangerous for society :(
      • solid12345, on 08/13/2008, -5/+3Well Saakashvili didn't make a few dozen journalists and ex KGB agents disappear or wind up dead, who is the paranoid one here.
      • ZenMojo, on 08/13/2008, -0/+9No, he just teargassed and beat a bunch of student protesters and then blew up 2000 civilians in two days with GRAD attacks, displacing 50,000 people from their homes.
      • mannyqui, on 08/13/2008, -0/+5"displacing 50,000 people from their homes." Correction..... 100, 000 People..... Saakashvili is just another Sadam Hussein.... and our government created him.
      • N0_SkillZ, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1While Russia is still within Georgian territory he has every right to feel threatened. The US has already taken sides, it would be wise for Russia to listen.
    • LeeSoong, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3What ?!?

      'I can't hear you over all of this shelling !'
    • bars78, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0NEW GAME! Fill Saakashvili`s muzzle!
      Exclusive NEW GAME! Only Today- Fill Saakashvili`s muzzle!.Hurry up!
      http://skyupper.com/saakashvili-game.swf
  • richmomz, on 08/12/2008, -2/+36I'm happy to see the conflict end but I am left wondering what the long term impact of this will be in the region, and on U.S. / Russian relations. The substantial oil and strategic interests in the region have made it a powderkeg for conflict in the past, and probably will again. The best idea might be to give the separatist regions independence based upon the Bosnian / Kosovo model.

    Fun fact trivia - this is the same region that Hitler was desperately trying to take during WWII to supply his army with badly needed fuel and deliver a final death blow to the reeling Russian army. The Russians chose to make their last stand in a little city called Stalingrad (a few hundred miles north of the current Ossetia conflict). The result: a titanic military clash which killed over 2 million people on both sides culminating in the biggest battle in history and the turning point of the war.
    • FlaG8r, on 08/12/2008, -1/+13...and now they call it Volgograd.
    • RSS14, on 08/13/2008, -4/+3Yeah, Hitler wanted Stalingrad because it was Stalin's City. It really had no strategic use.
    • monkeyrun, on 08/13/2008, -2/+1No it won't affect US/Russia relationship at all.

      They are bounded to secretly hate each other one way or the other.

      I am sure Putin is well aware of that.
    • mannyqui, on 08/13/2008, -7/+1"..and now they call it Volgograd. ".... Uuughhh No.... St. Petersburg is the current name.
      • KyotoWolf, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2You're thinking of Leningrad
      • vxp19, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Stalingrad was renamed to be Volgograd.
        Leningrad was renamed to be Sankt Piterburg.

        One is in the south, another is way up north, by Finland.

        Learn geography?
    • bgturk, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3If those separatist regions can get their independence then so should Chechnya.
    • iodine, on 08/15/2008, -0/+0There is not even a drop of oil in Georgia. Hitler was trying to get to Baku (Azerbaijan), which is a totally different place.
  • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -12/+1In the end there should be a trial I think.

    We need to know the truth.

    I only wonder if there any chance to see adequate judges these days. All international trials I've seen recently was mostly a "theatric act in trial decorations" with predetermined results. The best one was in Kosovo, when Karla Del Ponte after resign writing a book called "The Hunt: Me and War criminals" where she states the fact that tiral wasn't honest or fair at least.

    Here are small quotation for curious mind. Horrible crime that never will recieve an adequate judgment because it was made by "our son of bithc":



    The prosecutors office received information which UNMIK officials had received from a team of trustworthy journalists that during the summer months of 1999 Kosovan Albanians had transported 300 kidnapped people from Kosovo to Albania.

    These prisoners were initially held in sheds and other structures in Kukes and Tropoje [Harry's note - north-eastern Albania]. According to the journalists' sources, who were only identified as Kosovo Albanians, some of the younger and fitter prisoners were visited by doctors and were never hit.

    They were transferred to other detention camps in Burrel and the neighbouring area, one of which was a barracks behind a yellow house 20 km behind the town.

    One room inside this yellow house, the journalists said, was kitted out as a makeshift operating theatre, and it was here that surgeons transplanted the organs of prisoners. These organs, according to the sources, were then sent to Rinas airport, Tirana, to be sent to surgical clinics abroad to be transplanted to paying patients.

    One of the informers had personally carried out a shipment to the airport.

    The victims, deprived of a kidney, were then locked up again, inside the barracks, until the moment they were killed for other vital organs. In this way, the other prisoners in the barracks were aware of the fate that awaited them, and according to the source, pleaded, terrified to be killed immediately.

    Among the prisoners who were taken to these barracks were women from Kosovo, Albania, Russia and other Slavic countries. Two of the source said that they helped to bury the corpses of the dead around the yellow house and in a neighbouring cemetery.

    According to the sources, the organ smuggling was carried out with the knowledge and active involvement of middle and high ranking involvement from the KLA.

    The tribunal investigators discovered that even if the information for the journalists was tear-jerking, the details were coherent within themselves and confirmed information directly gathered by the tribunal.

    'The material within [from the office of the court] does not contain specific material from Albania; but a low number of witness statements and other material we have confirms and to a certain extent amplifies the stated information,' I noted in a memo on this activity.

    'All the individuals whom the sources cite as present in the Albanian camps in the summer of 1999 were declared to be lost in the summer of 1999 and had never been seen since then.'

    The implications were obvious; 'Given the extremely grave nature of the these cases, the fact that practically none of the bodies of the victims of the KLA were found in the exhumations in Kosovo and the fact that these atrocities would have been committed under the supervision or command of the leadership of the KLA at the medium or high level, they should be investigated in the most thorough way possible by professional investigators and experts.'

    The victims of these cases were probably seized after the end of the NATO air campaign in a period in which Kosovo was overrun with foreign peacekeepers and legions of investigators and representatives from Human Right operations. It was not clear whether crimes committed in this arc of time fell under the mandate of the tribunal.

    The prosecutors office should have asked for the names of the sources from the journalists and UNMIK as well as any other information they had on this case.
  • 2bsbc, on 08/12/2008, -6/+30The only logic I can see in this "halt" is if Russia moved into Georgia to do specifically what they said they were there for; fulfilling it's pact with Ossetia. If that's the case and Russia is truly going to withdraw, then the majority of the reporting that has been done on this story inside the US is absolute trash.

    I'm not sure I buy it though. Why are they shutting pipelines down after the fighting stopped, and not during the fighting? Especially when we were told that Russia didn't hit the pipeline with their bombing.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssEnergyNews/idUS ...

    And why in the hell would Russia move in tactical nukes, and then pull back? Are they expecting an escalation to the fighting in the near future, or are they now in control of a section of the line, and have no intentions on returning it?
    http://freeandindependent.wordpress.com/2008/08/11 ...

    I smell a rat. Especially if oil starts to move back up, and the Euro continues to take a pounding on the currency market.
    • sphira, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6100% agreed -
    • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -4/+2SS21 is not necessary a nuclear weapon carrier. like B2, or B52. If you load nukes - here we go! If you not, then now. You will got just getting a very precise delivery service for any package. Like UPS, but faster. You can use this for mail too.
    • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -4/+6BP closed a Caspian oil pipeline because they don't want to have any deals with unpredictable state like Georgia. Will you transfer your oil with country that provokes Russia for nothing, and then hysterically asking for military help from NATO or States?
      I doubt so.
    • Hangly, on 08/13/2008, -0/+5FTA "BP closed a Caspian oil pipeline and stopped pumping gas through Georgia as fighting continued on Tuesday, forcing neighboring Turkey to look to Iran for gas."

      Oh ironing, delicious delicious ironing.

      Does anyone know the limit of Russia's advance? Did they cross any pipeline routes?

      Maybe Russia is looking for some kind of insurance. "You mess with us, and we'll shut them down" or something like that.
    • ZenMojo, on 08/13/2008, -0/+10Russia didn't touch the pipelines, most of them are underground. BP voluntarily shut the pipelines down.
      • Hangly, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1I know they didn't touch them, but are they on top of/near them?
    • dogson, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3the SS-21 was not armed with nuclear warheads, they used conventional HE warheads or possibly HE-frag heads.
  • GovernmentSp00k, on 08/12/2008, -10/+7Hmmm..He's just going to throw in the towel and that's it? I like the idea of ending the destructive war massacre and senseless, uncivilized barbaric killing of human beings and loudly applaud his decision if it is in fact the real deal. But couldn't this be part of a trap or greater game at hand?
    • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1We are not the ones who decide :)
      I meant to add "unfortunately", but reading some people comments, I'm not so sure in that :)
  • ozymandias2012, on 08/12/2008, -22/+16Title's misleading...should read "Russian PUPPET Calls Halt to War".
  • BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -9/+20Great success! Rasseeya! ***** yeah!
    • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -6/+2Come on! That was prelude only.
      Now small intermission and we will see a VERY long opera about UN, NATO, EC, USA, UNICEF, UNESCO, and many other cool abbreviations..

      Keep yourself seated with your safety belts on.
    • identifiedlogo, on 08/13/2008, -2/+12Cant you atleast hide the Russian flag on your name. You are too easy.
      Anyways...I agree....Russia did exactly what a responsible country should be doing.
      That sick georgian president killed almost 2000 INNOCENT people before all this begun. South Ossetians are supposedly 90% Russians.
      Just think what the US would do if Mexico killed 2000 people in texas...Overnight annexation.....The US is in no position to tell Russia what to do. US just goes to a country bombs the day light out of it, and no body says nothing. Those Russians dont give a damn about the US or Europe.
      • dkapuchino, on 08/13/2008, -2/+2Difference? Texas is part of the US, not Mexico.
        That would be like the US killing people in Texas.
      • luckless, on 08/13/2008, -0/+6Okay then... just think of what the US would do if Mexico killed 2000 US citizens in Mexico....
      • BabyWookie, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3Why should I hide it? I made that my icon specifically to display my solidarity with the Russian cause, right after I first learned about the slimy, despicable, treacherous, US and Israel sponsored Georgian attack.
      • LeeSoong, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Lukeless - the U.S. would do absolutely nothing.

        Illegal mexican criminals enter the U.S. to commit crimes,
        and then sneak back into Mexico.

        Mexican troops have been a problem for some U.S. patrols,
        but you don't see the stealth bombers launched against Mexico City, do you?
  • mathewsj, on 08/12/2008, -18/+8how many months did it take the soviets to plan this attack,
    how long does it take to move 2 army divisions 18,000 men over the Caucus moutains (almost 2 months),
    how long does it take to move naval ships to be ready to blockade ( 3 months),
    how long does it take to get detailed targeting for balistic missiles(2 months).

    who would think this is all Georgia's fault?? liberal fascist brown shirt commies on digg
    • TheMachine1, on 08/12/2008, -0/+9You would think a large military has predetermined contingency plans for hundreds of potential battles. They might have had a headups from spying to.
    • Chainheart, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4Have any more meaningless epithets you'd like to add to that, Mr. Black and White?
    • fuzzmeister, on 08/13/2008, -2/+6Just FYI, the "soviets" don't exist anymore.
      • dkapuchino, on 08/13/2008, -2/+5They just aren't calling themselves soviets. They act the same.
    • identifiedlogo, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Dude that was like 100 years ago, This is Russia you are talking about not Timbuktu.
    • BabyWookie, on 08/13/2008, -1/+4You are a moron. Russia has a very strong, permanent military presence in the region, ever since the whole Chechnya thing. Also, the Black Sea is not that large. It takes a modern war ship a manner of hours to sail from Sevastopol to Sukhumi.
  • DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -14/+8>how many months did it take the soviets to plan this attack,
    it was come up eventually. that situation was not very "surprosing". Saakashvili is a well known idiotic person so his behavior is predictably dangerous. look at his face
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/WORLD/europe/08/ ...
    http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/bl ...
    This is paranoid-sick person. Like hitler. Just add the little mustaches with your imagination... Same face, same problems..


    >how long does it take to move 2 army divisions 18,000 men over the Caucus moutains (almost 2 months),
    only 8 thousand are there. It took 16 hours.

    >how long does it take to move naval ships to be ready to blockade ( 3 months),
    Look on map. This is not Iraq. This is Black sea! This is not US and nobody sending fleets on other side of globe just for Dick's fun.

    >how long does it take to get detailed targeting for balistic missiles(2 months).
    Ever heard about satellites, photography, intelligence? Any of those words sounds familiar?

    Man, quit smoking that *****. It makes you slow and retard. 2 month to take a map for misslies! Oh my. situation on battlefield changed every minute, you really think that giving coordinates to missiles takes 2 monthes?!
    • JanW71, on 08/13/2008, -1/+0It does not take long to move troops in Russia. Because if the Boss says go, they go. No committees and other burocratic crap there.

      Besides, the Russian army has practised to move everywhere in its influence sphere within hours. And they sure did practise a move where they would be called upon to help the UN-approved peacekeeping mission that they had stationed in South Ossetia.
  • coffee200am, on 08/13/2008, -19/+11I support the invasion and occupation of other countries as long as it not done by the US or Bush!/s
  • jlhoben, on 08/13/2008, -3/+15No "surge"?
  • greeniemeani, on 08/13/2008, -14/+4In Soviet Russia, war calls halt on President......YOU.
  • tykwondingo, on 08/13/2008, -12/+5GG.

    brb, vodka.

    .
  • MyDigitalSin, on 08/13/2008, -10/+4But does the President really have power over the Prime Minister??
  • CindyMindy, on 08/13/2008, -14/+4Let's talk about countries that matter: Phelps just won his 5th gold medal in this year's Olympics!
    • Seann7656, on 08/13/2008, -0/+25?!

      I heard it was just 3 so far. But *****, he is kicking ass.
  • icantdenythis, on 08/13/2008, -9/+4I feel like they've said they were done 3 times now?
    • djoobacca, on 08/13/2008, -2/+2that's what happens when you do meth.
    • Volodya, on 08/13/2008, -2/+1Well said. How many times USA has finally won the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Tahiti, etc?
  • thebestever, on 08/13/2008, -12/+6But there still attacking..............wtf he cant control his own army?
  • Tyrghast, on 08/13/2008, -8/+2GG, rematch?
  • steveoco, on 08/13/2008, -2/+28I'm just not use to hearing that a country is ending a war. You just don't hear those words much anymore.
  • BHO4Prez, on 08/13/2008, -10/+0hey russians we know you're trying to send a message to the US and NATO. Well ***** you. America is not afraid of the Russian military. Your country better back off if it doesn't want to get into war it will lose.
    • Grolsch, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2paranoid much?
    • NightVortez, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2You can't be serious.
    • copypastry, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2posting in a troll thread
    • pahasnag, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3you are a moron, if there would be a war with russia, there will be no winners.
  • DoTheFandango, on 08/13/2008, -2/+2phew, that was close.
  • jamessavik, on 08/13/2008, -2/+2Let's hope the peace works out.

    All the Russian states have enough on their plates to modernize their infrastructure and economy. War is too much.
  • TJATL, on 08/13/2008, -4/+16Let's be realistic now, Putin gave the order to halt the invasion, war, conflict, what ever you want to call it.
    • iklintsov, on 08/13/2008, -0/+5who gives a toss who gave the order. it is over!
    • kylekeeton, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4I live in Moscow, Medvedev as President of Russia gave the Order. Get off the Putin bandwagon!
  • 223Sniper, on 08/13/2008, -5/+25looks like georgia wont mess with russia anymore. (for those who don't know, it was Georgia who started it).
    • solid12345, on 08/13/2008, -5/+4As if Georgia, a nation with 35,000 soldiers and 12 fighter planes would choose to take on Russia's 1.5 million soldiers and thousands of jet fighters...
      • t2t2, on 08/13/2008, -3/+2Well, there were Finland and Estonia...
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_War_of_Indep ...
      • almostadesigner, on 08/13/2008, -0/+12There plan was to shoot up South Ossetia, killing a few thousand people and maybe a few Russian peacekeepers while there at it. Russia of course was to just watch it happen.

        But we all know how that turned out for them.
      • ZenMojo, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6They would if they thought the United States would swoop in to protect them. Whoops.
      • pahasnag, on 08/13/2008, -0/+6it didn't go against Russia. It just used it's military to kill 2000 civilians, they simply were told by Rice that Russia will not intervene.
      • BabyWookie, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3The idiot Saaka-shilly was hoping to Blitzkrieg accross South Ossetia and secure his positions before the Russians realized what was happening.
      • vxp19, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"As if" ?

        They did.

        They paid.

        In my opinion, they didn't pay enough.
      • x060t, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Didn't pay enough? Maybe, but retaliation is a thin line between defense and agression. The operation in Georgia is defined as "peace enforcing" - that is, destroying Georgian military (not completely tho) and ensuring that they won't be able to cause such bloodshed again in the near future. Making them "pay more" won't improve Osetia/Abkhazia safety further, but will label Russia as a pure agressor. Keeping in mind that diplomatic war around this conflict is still ahead, we really don't need that.
    • NightVortez, on 08/13/2008, -1/+10I think they were either bagging on the US or other NATO allies to come to the rescue or they just didn't think Russia would have the guts to attack during the Olympics with Putin and Medvedev in China. They've been planning on an attack into South Ossetia since the election of Mikheil Saakashvili, looks like it wasn't exactly the best move to kill the Russian peacekeepers stationed there to keep a truce Georgia themselves agreed on.
    • halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -7/+2Tzarist Russia was simply looking for an excuse to practically invade democratic Georgia as a show of strength to Georgia, other former Soviet satellite states, and the West. It's wild-eyed response to the the events in Ossetia was completely reckless, overblown, and unjustified.
    • zbor, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1For a balanced look that doesn't buy into either Russian or Georgian propaganda, take a look at (and digg up!) this article from Reason:

      http://digg.com/world_news/The_Triumph_of_Putinism ...

      The Georgians shouldn't have invaded South Ossetia, and the Russians shouldn't have set a trap in the first place. Both sides are wrong. Diggers, get over your binary obsession and look a little deeper into the issue, please!
    • fesh27, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0Georgia should learn from this... USA and NATO will not come to help them.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0actually this isnt the lesson here. there are three.

        1. those who cry often "look at how cool/good/fee/etc i am" probably have an agenda (this is mostly about Saakashvili smooth democratic/freedom talk which got him western help but in reality certainly looks like a dictatorship state)

        2. to the united states: choose allys wisely. some will say just about anything to win your support. its okay to "abandon" allys who evidently set out to simply use you from the get go.

        3. to russia: get your act together with the infowar. you kicked ass in real life, but infowar - not so much. there's this "internets" thing, i know you've top notch techs, now get some good PR folk on your side.

        of course most obvious lesson is "dont ***** with russia" but i dont think it needs to be spelled out ;)
    • zbor, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Oops – bad link...

      http://digg.com/world_news/The_Triumph_of_Putinism ...
  • MidnightRIder77, on 08/13/2008, -4/+14Cold War 2 has been postponed. Thank God (or your favorite flying Italian food)
  • identifiedlogo, on 08/13/2008, -9/+28Much Respect...Hopefully they will obey their words. I feel no remorse for Georgia....Russia did exactly what any sane country would do.
    CNN, BBC, AP...>>>>Can all go to hell. I was shocked to see Rice on TV talking down to Russia...The same morons who sold the Iraq war to American citizens are talking down to Russia....MADNESS. But No more, I promise not to watch or read, AP, CNN, BBC, FOX...I will do the investigation myself.
    Russia should take Georgia to Hague for war crimes.
  • boyzo, on 08/13/2008, -1/+11The conflict is not about oil or separatist territories, its all about an strategic position for both US and RUSSIA.
    Georgia is a US ally for economic and political reasons in exchange of allowing US to have strategic military positions, of course in the best interests of the US, having a close border with RUSSIA and a few steps from IRAN. I'm not saying its about going to war with RUSSIA or IRAN, but being that close to them is incredibly convenient to display monitoring radars.
    See the map: http://www.filedropper.com/locationofsouthossetiai ...
  • fmyidotcom, on 08/13/2008, -10/+5What a tool and a puppet.
  • andyd273, on 08/13/2008, -11/+2All I can say is, I really hope that this is real.
    From what I was told by someone with military intelligence(sic) ties, is that since Georgia is in the UN then if it were to come to full, for real war, then it would basically become a world war, because all the other UN countries would have to move in to defend them. That would include the US, and the only way that we would be able to get enough troops to do it would be to reinstate the draft. It's a scary thought, and that's why I'm really praying that this peace is real.
    • dkapuchino, on 08/13/2008, -0/+7Your friend might have military intelligence ties, but he doesn't know jack about world politics.
    • pahasnag, on 08/13/2008, -0/+6Dear andy, UN (United Nations), The General Assembly is made up of 192 Member States.
      Please do not embarrass yourself, you probably meant NATO, a military alliance?
      If you are still young, try to reframe form posting on a subject you have no clue about, despite your "military intelligence(sic) ties", observe the world with it's dirty politics for now.
  • westvaco, on 08/13/2008, -1/+13It's a shame there really was no real reporting on relations with Russia, Georgia (BTW the country's real name is not Georgia :) ) and it's neighbors and it's history. Basicly back when USSR disolved Georgia went on a massive wage of ethnic cleansing of the 30% of it popuation that was not ethnic Georgian (this is one of the main reasons Ossetians fought for indepence) And during the Russian Revolution Gerogia was breifly a independent nation that rapidly expanded it's own territory at the cost of it's neighbors. (today that territory grab back in the 1920's is another possible flashpoint as Georgia's neighbors claim their historic territory back.

    In short, this whole situation is not as easy as the so-called news makes it out to be.
  • roxgod666, on 08/13/2008, -4/+9this was obviously because of that heartwarming speech George Bush made...just making the world a better place one war at a time
    • Napiertt, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4Ever notice how the biggest frauds talk the most about Freedom! and Democracy!. They just love to bring Freedom! and Democracy! to people by bombing them
  • theadvenger, on 08/13/2008, -5/+10WTF!?! Russia a won a war in the summer?!?!?!
    • iklintsov, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4as well as ice hockey in canada, ufa cup, volley ball and some other *****!!!
  • solid12345, on 08/13/2008, -11/+4What I got out of this news event is seeing all the world's leftists who claim to hate war and imperialism cheerleading Putin on to destroy the "US puppet government" in Georgia. We know your game, you are not hippies with flowers in your hair, but vile, foaming at the mouth commies who wish to destroy western-style liberal democracy and capitalism.
    • ZenMojo, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4We cheered on the Afghan war against the Taliban, too. Don't start nothin', there won't be nothin'.
  • pell, on 08/13/2008, -8/+4All those dead for what?
  • t2t2, on 08/13/2008, -10/+3Ehh.... I don't believe this as the end of it... probably just a break from it before people realize that russia is retrying to re-create soviet union... But then again I'm Estonian and probably gonna get called "Fascist" and get buried by russians...

    Oh, and ex-soviet countries support Georgia: http://www.president.lt/en/news.full/9475
    • IVillageIdiot, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2HINT: SEND TO YOUR COUSINS:
      =========================
      The complete loss of nads in the West has only encouraged the SOBs (the Soviets) and NOW... they know the rope is loose and weak and the rest of the former satellites should be rightfully concerned by this development.

      If NATO hasn't the stomach for the confrontation, THEN.... I would HIGHLY SUGGEST... that the former satellites, knowing the Bear as intimately they do, SHOULD... immediately form a new THIRD organization, similar to NATO whose membership would include ANY of the formerly occupied colonies for the purposes of mutual defense of their cyber and physical territories.

      A New Org would tell the Bear that their former Slaves will:
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1) NOT ALLOW themselves to be re-enslaved under any circumstances.

      2) If NATO doesn't get off the frigging pot and DO SOMETHING to get them inducted into NATO... THEN… Eastern Europeans will take matters into their own hands, create their own org, and NATO will have a new competitor for Dollars and influence in Europe.

      3) Allow the US to work with the former Satellites OUTSIDE of NATO's fecklessness.

      4) Once created, NATO may be compelled to deal with the New Org as a whole instead of individually giving the former satellites more bargaining power.

      5) Make sure the Bear understands, former Slaves, combining to attack at once the bastards who once held them in bondage, may have little or NO MERCY on their former Masters. They’ll be naturally surrounded in central Europe and SOME of those former satellites are already in NATO. If those troops are attacked they may well extend the NATO shield by proxy to the rest who aren't yet inducted.

      I suggest the following name:
      Freed Eastern European Satellite Organization (FREESO)
    • BabyWookie, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Why would Russia want the USSR back? In 1990, under Yeltsin, the Russian Federation was one of the first Soviet republics to declare its independence from the USSR . All you ***** were just dead weight any way, only dragging down the great Russian nation with your fascist cultures and backward ways. Now, just shut the ***** up and stop licking Bush's ass, while libeling and antagonizing Russia every chance you get. If you piss the Russians off too much, next time, they'll elect Zhirinovsky and he will wipe your countries off the face of this planet just for the ***** of it. He is nuts and doesn't give a ***** about Americans striking back. Cheers.
      • IVillageIdiot, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2Hilarious...!

        If Russia is/was a "Great Nation" why the need for slaves? Why take on the "dead weight" in the first place??

        The notion that Russia voluntarily dumped the "union" and was leading the glorious parade to freedom is the most hilarious thing I've read on Digg so far. And I've read a lot of this drivel in an effort to understand why so many idiots believe what they do.

        Thanks for the lesson... BTW....
      • BabyWookie, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Hey, Village Idiot boy (did you name yourself after Bush?), guess who stopped the Soviet hard-liners from restoring the the old ways during the coup of 1991? That's right, the Russians did. The Russian people blocked the Red Army tanks and toppled the statue of the Polish Jew founder of the Cheka (aka NKVD, aka KGB) Felix Dzerzhinsky in the Lyublyanka Square. Don't ask the Russians why they needed the "slaves", ask the mostly Jewish Bolsheviks and the Georgian Stalin. I believe that they ultimate plan was to destroy the Slavic Orthodox Christian culture.
      • IVillageIdiot, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1Wookie, It doesn't look to me as if the "hardliners" were in fact stopped as you claim. It looks to me, and likely the rest of the Western world, as if they are doing just fine in their new attacks against several of the former near-abroads.

        Estonia was preparing to invading Russia? Their GIANT army of blood thirsty fanatics were massing on the border, crowing for Russian blood??? You had to defend yourselves from their massive hoard of malevolent slaves, right??? Or was it about a statue that reminded them of decades spent beneath the boot?

        Ditto for Georgia? They had to be ground down and intimidated. A few of them needed to be killed so they would understand…. what??? That you have a larger army and you’re willing to use it??? I think they well understand that after spending all those years getting slapped around like a Eurasian step child. Ya think??

        The notion that there is some difference between the “Old ways” and “Today”, I think will need more clarification. They don’t look very different at the moment. Czechoslovakia in 56, looks a great deal like Georgia in 08. Claiming you’ll “nuke” Poland because they would rather deal with the West in light of this latest escapade, looks a lot like Nikita Khrushchev pounding on the table with his shoe screaming for blood if resisted.

        So, if there is a difference that manifests itself within Russia today, great. I am truly happy for that, and I’m NOT being sarcastic. I DO TRULY HOPE that things are better inside than they once were. However, it could only be measured on a relative scale, surely. It can’t POSSIBLY be sufficient if the “Prime Minister” has engineered and selected his own conditions for employment regardless of citizen input??? HELLO????? That too, sounds like the “Old days”!

        So, please don’t tell me everything is fine, well, and good. IT OBVIOUSLY IS NOT…

        As for where the implication regarding who is responsibility for the “Old Ways” (if that is what you want to call it), I would say there is PLENTY of blame to go around. A world that excepted peaceful co-existence with evil would be a prime candidate. Blaming it on a faction of Jews is typical for Europe, but it’s not correct either.

        Yes Stalin was Georgian, however… NEWS FLASH; Stalin is dead, he wasn’t in Georgia two weeks ago??? So is Beria, and so is Molitov, and the whole lot of those sadist are dead. THANK GOD! Their religion (latent as it may have been) didn’t command them. Their race didn’t command them. Their ethnicity didn’t command them. Their nationality didn’t command them. WE BOTH KNOW… what DID command them, without having to say it.

        In the end, I for one, was very proud of the Russian citizens who stood down those tanks. In the same way I am proud of those human beings in Tennimen Square that did the same thing. And the same for the Berliners who yanked down a miserable wall and it’s miserable “government” (if you want to call it that). I am proud of EVERYONE who risks all to achieve their own Liberty. THEY DESERVE RECOGNITION!

        However I would still say, if there is a clear distinction to be advanced between the USSR and Russia, then the differences between them must be made ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. I don’t think a rational person can be expected to believe that the two are completely different and one of them is ready for absolution, if that one continues to behave like the other one.


    • kylekeeton, on 08/13/2008, -2/+1No you get buried by an American. Buried
  • Gemfinder, on 08/13/2008, -6/+1[taking and releasing a deep breath] Thank God.
    [Snapping out of it] GOD DAMMIT, DON'T GO AROUND DOING THAT KIND OF *****!!!
    Can someone translate that into Russian, please?
  • sexyfridge, on 08/13/2008, -2/+4It seems you can't trust anyone these days.News about ending the war? Doubt. News about who started the war? Doubt. News about what's really going on in the war? Doubt. The motives behind the US always seems to be money.
    • pahasnag, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3unfortunately all wars are fought for money, the 'free press' and the 'democracy' are tools for some used to control the public while doing their business. Russia and US are fighting over access to Caspian oil, but US has way better skill in it, it is doing it using puppet governments and apparently 'free press'. Next step for US will be cementing it's presence in the region to insure that oil flows into the right hands without interruptions by a weaker contender.
      Talking about 'democracy' how many things that are overwhelmingly supported by American public 'have no political support'. :)
  • schrutefan, on 08/13/2008, -3/+2A now the search begins for WMDs.
  • EggAndMuffin, on 08/13/2008, -1/+6HALT

    http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7366/haltwm2.pn ...
  • Barackalypse, on 08/13/2008, -8/+3And by "reached a decision" Medvedev means that Vladimir Putin decided it was time to stop.
  • vikinglander, on 08/13/2008, -0/+11I like the Georgians and I like the Russians. (I am neither). I hope that peace and diplomacy prevail.

    • x060t, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3We, Russians don't have anything against Georgians in general. But their president is not even considered Georgian here - he got an education in US, has american wife, got to power with american money and support.. And we don't need an agressive american enclave near our borders just the same way as you guys don't want our missiles on Cuba.
    • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2ditto. no beef with Georgian people. Saakashvili is an embarrasment to us all. hope he meets Chikatilo soon.
  • mannyqui, on 08/13/2008, -1/+11How about getting Sarkosy to come over and talk to Bush about ending the war in Iraq?.....
    • kylekeeton, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3Good Idea!
    • Ortheos, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4Halt was ordered before Sarkozy even arrived in moscow. Super effective +1 send him on his way to washington right away!
  • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 08/13/2008, -1/+7Reports this morning are saying that Russia is violating their own cease fire and Russian tanks are moving SOUTH towards the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, not north towards Ossettia.
  • Gioware, on 08/13/2008, -3/+2http://digg.com/world_news/Russia_backed_terrorist ...
  • floorman56, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2WHERE IS CODE PINK????
  • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -2/+6as Saakashvili was claiming the russians were marauding Gori, the journalists on the ground report _no_ russian troops there. the very same CNN reported this, just read further into the article, here:

    Saakashvili, flanked by the leaders of Lithuania, Poland, Estonia and Latvia in a separate media briefing, said Russian tanks were attacking and "rampaging" through the Georgian town of Gori despite the cease-fire. Video Watch Saakashvili speak »

    However journalists in Gori, the birthplace of former Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, said they had seen no Russian tanks. Residents there told the journalists they had earlier seen "some" Russian tanks, but not in large numbers.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/13/geo ...

    this arse has ***** up lives of a lot of people. do not believe a word he says.

    watch his first interview to CNN where he claimed in no uncertain terms that it was the russians who picked the date (eve of the olympics) and attacked first. it is now common knowledge that it was the georgians who shelled and rocketed Tskhinvali where as russia has a small contingent (also suffered casualties that night) of peace keepers on UN mandate.

    Russia only defended the civilians and fought off a brutal (if _very_ stupid) aggressor.
    • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -3/+2Russia's "defence" of civilians INSIDE Georgia is a violation of the Charter of the United Nations. It's like Mexico invading the United States after US suppresses civil unrest in, say, Texas.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3it is precisely their obligation to protect civilians, that is why they (the UN) give out mandates to peace keeping troops - to keep peace and protect civilians.

        reminder: Georgia has heavily shelled Tskhinvali, killing as many as 2000 people before the russians could do anything at all. georgians forces at the time of their assault were many times over stronger than those of the peace keepers. without reinforcements they stood no chance.

        let me repeat this one more time (god knows CNN doesnt) Georgians attacked civilians in Tskhinvali with cannon and rocket fire in the middle of the night killing scores of civilians (reports being verifyied of as many as 2000) and a number of russian peace keepers.

        there was no apparent stopping of georgian atrocities (there are documented cases of those) until the russians came in and repelled georgians out of Tskhinvali. true, the russians following that did bomb all the military installations with admitted collateral damage, yes, but is it really avoidable? tragic, but come on, be fair, blame goes straight to Saakashvili, not the russians.

        you with me so far?

        now, we know what the russians did do. kicked georgian's ass all the way to Tbilisi.

        you tell me what would you have them do?
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -3/+2The figure "2000" is fiction. Human Rights Watch members in Russian-controlled territories have been unable to locate the all edged victims. However, if Russia keeps on not allowing the Red Cross and other humanitarian aid organizations to conquered territories, the number of victims will probably rise to 2000 or even more. There are looting and executions going on by South Ossetian paramilitia in the town of Gori under the eyes of Russian troops - they do nothing to stop it, as Sky News reported.

        The mandate was for INTERNATIONAL PEACEKEEPING FORCES (incl. Russia), not for the Russian Army. The Russian Army has absolutely no right to be in South Ossetia.

        The "Russian peace-keeping troops" is also a joke. Russian newspapers themselves have reported back as far as 2007 that Russia has placed units of GRU (Russian intelligence agency) among other units serving as peacekeepers. The mission of these GRU units is to provoke Georgia to invade South Ossetia, so much more powerful Russia could conveniently intrude. The Russians were right when the believed that the NATO wouldn't even be able to have a meeting before Russian troops have already reached the border of Georgian "mainland". It was a trap.

        The whole conflict was started by Russian-backed South Ossetia militia, that has from time to time attacked Georgian villages. But this time, the Georgian patience snapped. I must also remind you that the people from the town of Tskhinvali had already been evacuated before the Georgian attack.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+3figure is fiction? well, its a preliminary report which may (and i hope will be) lowered.

        that doesnt change the fact that Georgians launched that attack, shelled the town and killed MANY civilians (whatever the number ends up) as well as some russina peace keeping troops (which we know precise count). if the figure is lower, its luck and a blessing. but from the number of funerals observed in Tskhinvali as we speak it sure doesnt look like a small number.

        Gerogians snapped? well, the russians snapped back. had every right to. BLAME SAAKASHVILI, not the russians.

        i'll have you know, i'm not a great fun of russian moves in the past. but it disgusts me that western media and the west would rather cover up this massecre then admit that for once russia is on the side of right here.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2and i repeat my question, what would you have the russians do in response to the shelling and rocketing of Tskhinvali killing scores of civilians and peacekeepers?
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2The figure is pure fiction and the upcoming "official" is probably going to include South Ossetian paramilitia (yeah, the guys with heavy machine guns and APCs), which Russia also counts as civilians.

        The town of Tskhinvali had been evacuated, there were few civilians left, so I dont't expect the civilian casualties to be remarkable. The evacuation started four days before the conflict officially even began! The most damage to the town was made by two days full of air raids by Russian air force after the Georgian troops had entered it.

        Regarding the funerals - Russian TV channel RTR broadcasted a civilian funeral of a man in his 50s, they also showed his picture. The only problem with this broadcast: the same man was shown in an uniform the day before in a hospital. The Russians are constructing the truth as we speak - that's why no western journalists and humanitarian aid organizations are allowed to Russian-conquered territories.

        I must once again remind you that there has been attacks from South Ossetia for a several months now. Peacekeeping forces did little to stop that. Russian newspapers reported back in July that so-called Russian peacekeeping troops had even been caught selling weapons to South Ossetian militia.

        Georgian villages were attacked from time to time. A large shelling of Georgian villages was on the 3rd of August, five days before Georgia invaded South Ossetia. It was WITNESSED by OSCE observers. The Georgians demanded the peacekeepers to confiscate artillery guns and mortars from South Ossetian paramilitia - the peacekeepers denied their request.

        And that's when Georgia invaded the South Ossetia. There was nothing to do - should they just sit and watch how their villages are being destroyed? The Russian media, of course, has turned it absolutely upside down. The West is not used to such a constant lying end they foolishly believe that there's truth in Russian reports.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2"and i repeat my question, what would you have the russians do in response to the shelling and rocketing of Tskhinvali killing scores of civilians and peacekeepers?"

        The peacekeepers should have confiscated the artillery pieces from South Ossetian paramilitia to stop shellings of Georgian villages. Not that they failed to do so - they openly declared that they weren't even GOING TO do so.

        The Georgian actions, in fact, were just reactions to the situation that had been there for months now. It was too late to do anything when Georgians were already invading South Ossetia.
      • kylekeeton, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2The deaths are going to go higher, as of right now, many serious wounded are being taken to Moscow. The wounded coming in are in bad shape, there are thousands being brought to the hospitals in Moscow. I doubt the health care system in Russia can save all them. It just is not modern enough.

        How do I know this I live in Moscow and I am an America if that matters to you. The people in Ossetia were sleeping when Georgia attacked. South Ossetia removed children earlier because they could see the Georgians military on the border. Would you not remove your children if you knew a crazy man was aiming rockets at them?

        Beside Saakashvili lied and said we want to negotiate then attacked during the night. Two hours after call for negotiations.

        Sad...
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1so what you're saying is, its okay for the Georgians to go ahead and "snap" and kill an "unremarkable" number of Ossetians, unremarkable number of peacekeepers, violate the UN-established truce and then what?

        do you even realize what you're saying? "And thats when Georgia invaded South Osetia" -- how do you "invade" a part of your own country?

        now, i'll grant you that some what you're saying regarding earlier skirmishes might be true, or at least certainly worthy of a hard look. but is what Georgia did a way to resolve these issues? did Saakashvili do service to his country? i think not.

        and certainly russia or any country in its place would have every right to defend her troops and an obligation to defend the civilians. and if you think all of Tskhinvali had been evacuated, watch some youtube.

        Saakashvili has lied on several occasions in his interviews to CNN. very easily verifiable lies.

        for example, in his very first interview to CNN said (look it up) that he did not know why the russians chose the eve of the olympics to start this aggression. lie. Georgia started it. _he_ started it. and he (one presumes) knew why.

        just now he said russian tanks were rampaging through Gori. where as journalists reported no tanks in Gori (see CNN article link below).

        he learned "quasi-democratic" rhetoric very well and he's playing the international community, tho i dubt too many are fooled by him at this point, they are just sticking with their committmends and waiting for Saakhashvili to collapse or disappear.

        so, with all due respect, Saakashvili doesnt hold much credibility right now. not with anyone who can follow the story.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2By the time Georgians captured Tshinvali, only 15 civilians were reported dead. It was in the morning of 8th August. In the afternoon, Russians started their first bombing raid on the town.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1just the peacekeepers were 10 killed that night. preliminary report of 1400 was the first figure that came out, which then was upgraded to 2000.

        once again, whatever the figure, it was caused by indiscriminate shelling of a peaceful town sound asleep by Georgian forces.

        do you deny that? if yes - you need reality check. if no - what else is there to talk about?
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+0why "capture" Tskhinvali at all in the middle of peaceful talks as Saakashvili himself stated on CNN?
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"so what you're saying is, its okay for the Georgians to go ahead and "snap" and kill an "unremarkable" number of Ossetians, unremarkable number of peacekeepers, violate the UN-established truce and then what?"

        It is not acceptable to kill anyone. However, Georgia had a right to defend itself after the peacekeepers denied Georgian request to confiscate artillery pieces from South Ossetian militia, which had shelled Georgian villages. Something had to be done to change that situation. Georgia invaded South Ossetian capital and managed to do it with little casualties to civilians.


        "do you even realize what you're saying? "And thats when Georgia invaded South Osetia" -- how do you "invade" a part of your own country?"

        The town of Tshinvali was not under Georgian control, so I'd call it invasion.


        "and certainly russia or any country in its place would have every right to defend her troops and an obligation to defend the civilians."

        Not according to the Charter of the United Nations. A country cannot invade other country under the excuse of "defending" its citizens, UNLESS:
        a) the country that another country wants to invade agrees with it (like when a country allows another country to fight terrorists on its soil),
        b) Security Council of UN allows it.

        Security Council has not allowed Russia to invade and Georgia itself certainly hasn't either. So Russian forces has absolutely no right to be in Georgia.


        "for example, in his very first interview to CNN said (look it up) that he did not know why the russians chose the eve of the olympics to start this aggression. lie. Georgia started it."

        This is a matter of opinion.


        "just now he said russian tanks were rampaging through Gori. where as journalists reported no tanks in Gori "

        Sky News has reported tanks in Gori:
        http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Russia-Geor ...


        "Saakashvili has lied on several occasions in his interviews to CNN. very easily verifiable lies."

        I've seen him exaggerating some claims, but not lying. Certainly not like Russians are lying about, well, almost everything. Where's the cease-fire?
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"preliminary report of 1400 was the first figure that came out, which then was upgraded to 2000."

        Nearby hospitals, however, reported to Human Rights Watch numbers less than hundred, most of them military personnel. Sounds plausible. My hometown, Tallinn, was carpet-bombed in 1944 by some 300 Soviet bombers. 1/3 of the city was destroyed. The casualities - about 463.


        "once again, whatever the figure, it was caused by indiscriminate shelling of a peaceful town sound asleep by Georgian forces."

        There were South Ossetian artillery pieces in the town and they once again shelled Georgian villages in the late evening of August 7th in violation of cease-fire. That triggered Georgian invasion on the first hours of the next day.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1"I've seen him exaggerating some claims, but not lying. Certainly not like Russians are lying about, well, almost everything. Where's the cease-fire?"

        so saying "i dont know why russians started on the eve of olympics" while Georgians launching full out bombardment of Tskhinvali is an "exaggeration"? good luck with your psychiatrist pal..

        look, the russians have done enough evil in the past, no doubt. i'm not a russian myself and will criticize them any day for that evil. but whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong. Saakashvili caused many deaths these past few days and i say covering it up is bad for everyone, including Estonia. he's guilty and should answer for what he did. simple as that.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"so saying "i dont know why russians started on the eve of olympics" while Georgians launching full out bombardment of Tskhinvali is an "exaggeration"?"

        Please do not put your words in my mouth and don't make any ad hominem attacks in the future.

        I once again remind you that the invasion of Tskhinvali was NOT the first event in the chain of events of this conflict. There were many other events, including provocations on the South Ossetian side, that led to the current situation. Depending on the viewpoint, both Russia and Georgia can be seen as the starter of this conflict.


        "he's guilty and should answer for what he did"

        Indeed, he is partially guilty of the current situation and he has admitted that on CNN. But so are South Ossetian and Russian leaders, who are continuing with provocations (moving units along Gori-Thbilisi road) and blocking humanitarian aid. There's no excuse for that.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+0list i said, if there were provocations, and i dont doubt there were some, there are other methods of dealing with that besides carpet bombing a civilian town and raising villages surrounding it and committing atrocities.

        "Please do not put your words in my mouth and don't make any ad hominem attacks in the future. " -- you said you havent seen Saakashvili lie, only exaggerate. i'm reminding you a specific example (of which there are many) easily verifiable of Saakashvili lie. not exaggerate, lie. if my style was offensive i apologize. nevertheless there you have an example of Saakashvili lie on the record.

        Saakashvili actions caused numerous civilian deaths. many thousands displaced. on both sides, mind you. you'll forgive me if i show a little degree of dislike for the guy, wont you?
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"there are other methods of dealing with that besides carpet bombing a civilian town and raising villages surrounding it and committing atrocities."

        Tskhinvali was carpet-bombed by Russia. Georgia doesn't even have enough aircraft in their air force for carpet-bombing. There are claims of atrocities on both sides, but I have yet to see any confirmed reports of them.


        "i'm reminding you a specific example (of which there are many) easily verifiable of Saakashvili lie. not exaggerate, lie."

        Calling Russia an aggressor was an opinion. Opinion, by definition, is not objective and thus cannot be neither true or false. However, naming Russia as the aggressor was not unsubstantiated, because the violation of the Charter of the United Nations by Russia can indeed be seen as an act of aggression.


        "you'll forgive me if i show a little degree of dislike for the guy, wont you?"

        You may show your dislike as much as you like, but please be very careful with what you are saying and avoid name-calling.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1do you have any confirmation of aid blockades? any reports that are coming or not attributed to have come from Georgian govt? so far the only ones providing aid to Ossetians are russians. and i dont see Ossetians running in horror from the russians either.

        speaking of tanks, they were georgian. as confirmed by CNN and they were driven out of Gori and then diverted away from Tbilisi. okay, this one scores only a half-lie for the Georgians.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+0"Tskhinvali was carpet-bombed by Russia. Georgia doesn't even have enough aircraft in their air force for carpet-bombing. There are claims of atrocities on both sides, but I have yet to see any confirmed reports of them."

        "carpet bombing" was a figure of speech, i apologize. what i meant to say which is what's been widely reported by independend news media and witnesses, the georgians shelled the town of Tskhinvali with cannon fire and rockets from Katyusha rocket fire. followed by an all out infantry assault.

        are you saying you have verified reports to the contrary? i'd like to know and verify your sources. if such were the case, it would certainly change my mind radically about this situation.

        it would also confuse me a bit as people were fleeing to russia for help, but hey, may be they were confused too.

        with respect to Saakashvili "expressing opinion". he's certainly entitled to that. but thats not what he was doing. he claimed, unequivocally, that russians in fact launched the attack on the night of the 7th (not talking about any of the prior provocations) and he knew not why. well, since the russians did not do that and georgians did, you tell me how else i should qualify this Saakashviki statement but a lie? i'm open, lets figure this out.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2"do you have any confirmation of aid blockades? any reports that are coming or not attributed to have come from Georgian govt?"

        Red Cross claims it has no safe access to South Ossetia:
        http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/22022 ...


        "speaking of tanks, they were georgian. as confirmed by CNN and they were driven out of Gori and then diverted away from Tbilisi. okay, this one scores only a half-lie for the Georgians."

        There was also other movement by Russians near Gori. I assume it's confirmed because it was in G.W. Bush's latest official statement.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2Two minutes ago CNN claimed again that the tanks on the Gori-Thbilisi road were Russian. I looked through CNN's website and I failed to find where CNN reported they were Georgian.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1with respect to SO the article you reference says the following:

        "It is imperative that we gain rapid access to South Ossetia so that we can bring urgent help to those in need," said Dominik Stillhart, the ICRC's deputy director of operations."

        which is a vague statement which doesnt actually state that access has been denied, just that they have requested it. this is a red flag to me as far as propaganda as leaves impression of something it doesnt actually say. if it meant to say that the russians denied access it could have just said it. so think and read between the lines.

        here's another quote, from the article:

        "After two days of poor security conditions, one of our teams, which included surgeons, was able to go back to Gori today to evaluate and attend to medical and general needs there."

        yes, obviously it was unsafe while there was fighting, but now situation is getting back to normal. so its not that access has been "blockaded" but it just hasnt been safe.

        where else do you see reports of the russians blockading access for aid to come in?

        now, speaking of tanks again. what georgians reported/claimed as "russian tank movement" turned out to be georgian tanks. score one for georgian propaganda.

        yes, there were russian forces movement, as you'd expect in a war, but if they had any intention of "taking" Tbilisi, they would have been there already. in case you dont know (which i'm sure you do) its a very short drive distance even for a tank to go from Gori to Tbilisi.

        so far russians did what they said and said what they did. good or bad. can't say the same for Saakashviki.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0i do respect your scepticism about information that tanks were georgian. here's an earlier report from CNN about those tanks:

        http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/13/ ...

        and in that report along with the russian spokesman explaining what happened and explaining that those georgian tanks were in full readiness, the CNN guy confirmed his statement and also explicitly said that CNN confirms that those tanks are now moving away from Tbilisi. my guess is, they were simply maneuvering local roads which presumably are tight.

        i ask you to give me a link of actual CNN report of russian tanks en route to Tbilisi please. all i've seen were a voice of matthew chance over footage of _georgian_ forces unrelated to what he's talking about. besides, even tho the report is titled ""Russian Tanks Outside Gori" if you listen Chance, he's saying exactly the opposite, he's seeing some APCs but he's NOT seeing tanks, and he's guessing that there may be some "beyond the bend". so you draw your own conclusions.

        CNN has gone "what bleeds leads" route and lost my respect as a credible news source i'm afraid.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0i propose we agree to disagree and i think it boils down to the following.

        you think the russians are now committing an aggression on georgia and i do not disagree with you, russian army is in georgia now and is causing some damage.

        i think, however, in this particular instance georgian president made this happen by committing the grave mistake of turning a with latent conflict into an all out war by starting it on the night of the 7th.

        if your point is that russia should have exersised restraint and act not quite as decisively i dont think i can agree with that.

        my point is with placing ultimate responsibility with the persons responsible for this escalation and atrocities. and if there were any committed by Ossetians, i say those should also be prosecuted.

        if we agree on facts which are:

        - there were skirmishes prior to august 7th

        - on august 7th georgia attacked Tskhinvali killing a number of civilians and russian peace keeping troops

        - russians forcefully responded

        so if we agree on these facts, any further discussions i feel are useless since i dont see how we can change each other's minds. now, if you have anything to correct these statements/facts, i'd be open to learn.
      • gasoline, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Yes, we may agree to disagree.

        Here are the main points I'm not abandoning:
        1) Georgian action was provoked,
        2) Russian Army units have no right to be inside Georgia (incl. Abkhazia and South Ossetia).
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1point #1 i'd like you to explain to me what kind of provocation can in your mind justify the method of establishing law and order by shelling a civilian town? (i'm not even going to discuss the atrocities and other events that transpired then)

        point #2 russian troops do have the right to be in SO by UN mandate.

        there was going a negotiation process. latent, imperfect, but it was peaceful. according to the rules of the game the georgians had no business coming to Tskhinvali. if they had issues (provocations you keep bringing up) there were channels to work them out. again, granted, imperfect, but they worked for 15 years, why escalate?

        peacekeepers were directly attacked and basically being murdered by georgians i say russia had every right to punch back. its just not reasonable to expect them to stand on a line and watch being shot at and bombed - military targets in mainland georgia became fair game as soon as they attacked peace keepers barracks and civilians of Tskhinvali.

        at the time of Georgian attack, peace keeping force stood no chance, hense reinforcements.

        and when it went all out, i can't say i blame the russians for wanting to demolish georgian army so they can never attack back. so did americans in iraq, so did every army which could afford to do so.

        this is a tragic situation for which Saakashvili and his inner circle are fully responsible.
      • WishItWerePaul, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0have a look at this by the way,

        http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AFlunAKqON4
  • sentime, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1In Soviet Russia, wars stop you.
  • Smaug52X, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0Russia no longer wishes to have "states" among it's provinces. It is a border war, and reclamation of pre-cold war conditions. A lot of countries are engaged in this type or turf war. Duh.
  • RealHyperX, on 08/13/2008, -2/+2I wish death to Putin and his ***** regime.
    • WishItWerePaul, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1right. good idea. start by bombing some Ossetians, why dont ya..
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