What is Digg?217 Comments
- Dumbledorito, on 12/02/2007, -10/+96If you think this is a really bad thing for Russia to do, I hope you were equally as horrified when Bush started things off in 2001 by withdrawing from the AMB treaty:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/rec ... - threemagic, on 12/02/2007, -2/+54Everyone knows that pulling out isn't safe.
- contractcentral, on 12/02/2007, -9/+58I'm sure we will match in kind. Prepare for the final war.
- Comatose51, on 12/02/2007, -3/+26Building a missile shield in Russia's backyard and inducting former USSR states into NATO certainly doesn't build trust between NATO and Russia. This is how arms races get started. A small provocation leads to another by the other side until you have a cold war and threat of mutual destruction. Putin got into power by promising to make Russia strong again. He did this by killing a bunch of Chechens and being much more aggressive than his predecessors. Of course, all of that cost money, which Russia didn't have until Putin confiscated a lot of oil companies. Our poorly planned Iraq war and addiction to oil is driving up oil prices that is lining the pocket of Russia and helping them become resurgent.
All in all, the Bush administration sucks at foreign policy Both Iran and Russia have gotten stronger while Bush was on watch. I thought the GOP was all about national security... lots of talks, nothing to show for it. - Super6, on 12/02/2007, -1/+23He's in his 5
- pandawho1212, on 12/02/2007, -12/+33why dont putin and bush just die? eh? anyone?
- antivibe, on 12/02/2007, -3/+24a continuation of the recent trend
- salinemist, on 12/02/2007, -6/+26Russia's GDP: $1.746 trillion
US GDP: $13.13 trillion
Plus you spelled Reagan wrong you bastard. - MrWhite7, on 12/02/2007, -5/+243 steps forward, 2 steps back... I wonder if he's on GW's buddylist.
- Buelldozer, on 12/02/2007, -8/+26*****. IT's been ratified and in force by many NATO nations. Russia has not held up its end of the bargain to get the amended version passed.
FTFA: "Western partners have refused to ratify an amended version of the pact until Russia pulls its forces out of Georgia and Moldova, ****as it promised in 1999*** when the treaty was reviewed."
Perhaps they should start by honoring their promise to their allies. - alexforcefive, on 12/02/2007, -9/+26Aye seriously. I don't know what putin's deal is, but russia really can't handle the ***** he's about to bring down on their heads
- mabhatter, on 12/02/2007, -10/+26WE (as in Bush) already DID change the deal by moving nukes into former Warsaw Pact countries closer to Russia. This move by Putin is simply a paper move in kind to gain points at home. Bush's neo-con agenda of not playing by treaties plays right into Putin's need to further Russian nationalism at home. Russia is very much an unfocused, "lost" country. They have nobody to fight against, and their former territories that brought influx of economic goods and places to vacation have broken away. How do you think Bush would react if California and Texas just decided to leave the union, hell even if Hawaii which was taken illegally decided to leave? Overall, Russia has been on VERY good behavior in the last decade and a half... Bush's rhetoric (and attacking countries they have economic interest in like Afghanistan and Iran) is going to push Putin into making some response to save face.
- lohphat, on 12/02/2007, -18/+30It's a calculated move. THe USSR was bankrupted by brinkmanship in the 80's by Regan -- it was a spending race. Now that the US dollar's in free-fall and the mortgage crisis looming, and the money hemorrhaging on Iraq, Putin sees the US at a weak point and is leveraging it.
- aflaks, on 12/02/2007, -6/+17Lets use the tools that the democratic system provides its citizens to rid him of power!!!!! oh wait..
- Joomal, on 12/02/2007, -2/+13Do any of you actually RTFA, or just make stupid comments that have nothing to do with the core of the article?
- HappyScrappy, on 12/02/2007, -0/+10Because NO ONE like a bully. We've been bad asses all along, trying to make everyone go our way by force and smugness. Now that we're vulnerable, everyone wants to see the bully topple.
This could have been avoided if we had elected a President who actually respected the other nations of the world instead of seeing them as his toys. - Urusai, on 12/02/2007, -0/+10That myth has been busted, by people from inside the Soviet Union. What bankrupted the Soviet Union was injudicious taxation which ruined internal markets, forcing them to import grain with hard currency they didn't have (the ruble was inconvertible). That's probably too complicated for a Reagan worshiper to grasp.
- kooft, on 12/02/2007, -1/+11Also FTFA: "Moscow's key problem with the treaty is flank limits which prevent Russia from moving tanks and artillery around its own territory, Russia's top generals say."
When is the last time you heard about US forces pulling out of Florida because it made Cuba nervous? You haven't, because the US doesn't tolerate being dictated to by other nations, yet, for some strange reason, we expect Russia to... - zhulik83, on 12/02/2007, -3/+12He is using democratic system to stay in power, he got over 75% positive rating. He brought stability and wealth to Russia. Thats why everybody likes him
- HappyScrappy, on 12/02/2007, -3/+11You could easily transpose the US and Russia in that sentence.
- HappyScrappy, on 12/02/2007, -0/+8Well, except for one who picks fights with countries like Iraq to prove he's tough and then can't even win.
- DickyT83, on 12/02/2007, -4/+12I see what you did there
- Gabberwok, on 12/02/2007, -3/+11Would you like some polonium with your tea?
- mabhatter, on 12/02/2007, -3/+11Putin has a good position. He wants the missile shield pulled out of former Warsaw pact countries... i.e. the "defense" shield will be right up to Russia's boarders after they lost Communist Eastern Europe and into some of the former USSR. The US thru NATO is being pretty damn brazen here, the demands for Russia to remove troops are from former USSR territories, not independent countries. NATO is running around recognizing "independence" for just about any former USSR territory that wants it.. that's a pretty disingenuous position. NATO doesn't want troops moved "near" NATO countries.. except they've added countries to that list so Russia can't even put troops on it's OWN borders, while the US moves missiles into the freed states as "defensive" measures because the new countries "need defending" so Russia doesn't take them back?
Russia seems to be playing pretty good ball here. The state/countries like Georgia would be like Mexico trying to take back Texas that illegally succeeded from them in the mid-1800's. The USA wouldn't tolerate that at all, but Russia (not the USSR anymore) is doing a pretty good job. If anything it's a time to learn from the past. Putin is in a position much like Hitler (OMG Goodwin here I come!) where the rest of Europe is gaming the rules to economically, and militarily hurt a former "enemy". That is already starting to backfire with Putin gaining power with very Bush-like, pro-fatherland-Russia agenda getting everybody's hopes up. Capitalism isn't really working out all that great for Russians in Russia as the economic power of having the territories of the USSR is gone and they're kind of stuck there in the cold. Just like Germany, back then, they are looking for somebody to save them.. to put the USSR back together and make their country whole again!
At this point Bush is still the bigger threat than Putin because he is pressing Russia's resource lines in Afghanistan and Iran on Russia's direct borders. How would we like Russia meddling in Mexico.... hell look what we did when they tried to "defend" Cuba... because that's what We're allowing our govt to do to them. Putin is behaving very rationally considering the circumstances and needs to be economically encouraged, reneging on these treaties is bad, bad mojo for Bush. - MrWhite7, on 12/02/2007, -3/+10Good god I'm getting old.
- opticwind, on 12/02/2007, -3/+10I did.
"The move comes two days ahead of parliamentary elections." - Super6, on 12/02/2007, -7/+14Once again showing us why the entire world needs Kasparov to win the election in Russia
- cg4et, on 12/02/2007, -4/+11But . . . I thought . . . didn't George Bush stare into Putin's eyes and, like, feel all warm and fuzzy? Now Putin's acting like a former KGB agent or something. Oh, yeah, he is a former KGB agent.
- RofLmaonnaise, on 12/02/2007, -0/+6Dr. Paul said that Russia probably doesn't like the "flexing of muscle" near their borders...and here we have Russia saying it.
- Comatose51, on 12/02/2007, -2/+8Underestimating Americans is a mistake few people make more than once. We might be down for now because of our stupid President but the basic framework of our society is strong and we still draw talents from all over the world. While I'm not condoning imperialism or aggression of any sort, saying the US will be out is just lunacy.
- rz8472, on 12/02/2007, -2/+8To add to mabhatter's point, as much as I dislike Putin, it isn't his fault. Putin tried to create a compromise with Bush, offering early-warning radar sites in Russia under joint Russian-NATO command to try to get Bush to reconsider putting anti-missile sites in former Warsaw Pact countries. If Bush was sincere about providing a defense net against ballistic missiles from rogue states he would pick the former, as having warning sites around Russia would obviously cover a much greater area.
And it was Bush and the neocons who started this thing in the first place with their discussion of the new Star Wars and pulling out of the ABM (Anti Ballistic Missile) Treaty. To try to gain absolute supremacy like this is a dangerous thing for the world... sometimes the greatest preserver of peace is that both sides are afraid to attack each other out of fear of annihilation. But the neocons don't see it that way. - jasqwerty, on 12/02/2007, -4/+10LOL @ fantasies and wet dreams of delusional nutcases
Let's put it this way. Whether you want to believe it or not, the world is very interconnected. You can't just have someone like the US disappear or collapse without ***** over the entire world. It's of course not perfect unity, but the multiplier is there. By the time the US GDP would get down to Russia/Mexico levels, people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet could get together and buy entire countries. - trovoltex, on 12/02/2007, -0/+6Again, read the history why USSR was putting missiles in Cuba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis
In 1961, the U.S. deployed 15 Jupiter IRBMs (intermediate-range ballistic missiles) at İzmir, Turkey, aimed at the western USSR's cities, including Moscow. Given its 1,500-mile (2,410 km) range, Moscow was only 16 minutes away. Yet, Kennedy gave them low strategic value, given that a SSBN submarine provided the same magnitude of threat, and from a distance.
Khrushchev publicly expressed anger and personal offence from the Turkish missile emplacement. The Cuban missile deployment — the first time Soviet missiles were outside the USSR — was his response to U.S. nuclear missiles in Turkey. - Talena, on 12/02/2007, -2/+7this is not sudden, he has been on this path for a while
- alexforcefive, on 12/02/2007, -1/+6Actually nicolas cage stole them all
- sanman, on 12/02/2007, -2/+7***** off, why don't you just slip a micky into your date's drink, if you wanna get lucky so bad?
All these ridiculous and untenable capitulations were obtained from Russia while they were imprisoned under that traitorous drunken bastard Yeltsin. That guy was a Manchurian candidate backed to the hilt by the West. Those weren't realistic conditions under which to negotiate a treaty, and it was unrealistic to expect that they'd endure for much afterwards.
You want a lasting treaty? Then negotiate in good faith. What was Russia actually getting from that treaty anyway? Sure, the West was getting a lot, but Russia was being ripped off. Now Bush has decided to push through an ABM radar in Eastern Europe. Since when is Eastern Europe on flight route from Iran? It isn't. The whole idea is a fraud by Western warmongers. The same team that brought you the invasion of Iraq, so that you could turn innocent women and children into "collateral damage". *****. - XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, on 12/02/2007, -9/+14Read the ***** article and look at Russia's point of view.
- pulsifier, on 12/02/2007, -3/+8this is a logical argument in the context of international politics effecting domestic politics. dugg up.
- thespudmall, on 12/02/2007, -6/+11This goes back further than either of them. Go learn some history.
- geomon, on 12/02/2007, -1/+5Which nukes did the US move into the former Warsaw Pact countries?
I think you are confused. We are negotiating with former Warsaw Pact countries to place anti-ballistic systems in within their borders, but we haven't placed any new nukes in Europe since the Pershing II. - cyberdork, on 12/02/2007, -1/+5It's the other way around, why is the US trying to get in everybody else's face?
Putting the radar and missile stations just on the Russian border was unbelievably stupid and insulting of the Americans. Everyone who knows just a tiny little bit about Russian history realizes that their prime concern always has been the protection of the borders of their motherland. The whole purpose of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union was to create a buffer zone between Russia and potential invaders. Don't forget, it's a gigantic country with less than half the population of the US. Their turf has been invaded many times, just because it's so difficult to defend a country so vast and sparsely populated. Enemy troops managed to cross thousands of miles thru their country, coming within the range of vision of their capitol more than once. Imagine the US had such a history.
But now their buffer zone is gone and what do the Americans do? Putting military installations right at their border. No wonder they are pissed. - zhulik83, on 12/02/2007, -1/+5Actually, I think they cant stand each other, Putin was always an opponent to Bush's foreign policies
- 42Vindictive, on 12/02/2007, -0/+4... Was that sarcasm? I'm confused.
- maiku00, on 12/02/2007, -3/+7And he's going to take the elections in Russia by a ***** LANDSLIDE. Not like I can really complain though. Americans did the same ***** thing with Bush.. sort of. At least not a landslide, eh.
- Stelex, on 12/02/2007, -0/+4Because 'you' are picking their arses, without even asking.
- BeefBaron, on 12/02/2007, -1/+5Cause noones got the balls to pull a grassy knoll feat anymore.
- inactive, on 12/02/2007, -0/+4Finally some action! 2012 can not come soon enough.
- SemiSarcastic, on 12/02/2007, -0/+4Ahhh...back to the good old days! I can relive the cold war just like my grandfather did. America vs. Russia, everything is right with the world: building bunkers under your house will soon be fashionable and Tom Clancy has purpose in life again.
- evlpanda, on 12/02/2007, -0/+4Articles? I thought this was all just a forum for amateur comedians.
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