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Russia: The Rise of Hate & Neonationalism

msnbc.msn.com — Russia is becoming an increasingly scary place. Ask Marat Gelman, whose gallery made the mistake of hosting a show by a Georgian artist at a time when Georgians are the subject of official disapproval. Last week the gallery was wrecked by 10 masked men —"not vandals, nor hooligans from the street, but highly professional and experienced militants.

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  • Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16It's essentially a dictatorship at the moment. Corruption and crime are approaching Mexican levels. It's a fun time in the old soviet bloc.
    • nfulton, on 10/12/2007, -17/+32Not so great here in the old US of A either. Neo-Facism seems to be a trend.
    • mancat, on 10/12/2007, -22/+22Oh shut up. Were you beaten by a gang of masked assailants for voicing your distaste with the state of American government? If so, let us know about it, and then maybe you can have grounds on which to make such outlandish comparisons.
    • monkeywrench, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11under the new military act, those masked assailants could be working for the government!

      The fact that this IS ALLOWED by the new bill should be very, very disturbing to all.....
    • EbowUK, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8LOL mancat

      Of course he won't be beaten by masked assailants, because the Free Speech zones are so far away from anyone that will give a *****, any distaste will go unnoticed.

      Land of the Free (with rules)?
    • Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -15/+16I can't believe mancat gets dugg down while nfulton gets dugg up. Fulton makes an absurd claim. Have you ever lived anywhere else, kid? Do you really think it is that bad in the good ol' USA?
      That is what happens with an absolutist communist government running the economy into the ground. Apparently the damage is nigh irreversible. It is a sorry state for Russia.
    • Alphabet, on 10/12/2007, -15/+7@jagdhund

      I don't give a ***** about other places or what you want to "compare" to. All I know is that USA is suppose to be a great nation where we're suppose to be free. And not some crazy fundie land where the president can't pronounce half his words correctly.
    • IanRReardon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13What does a president not being able to say words have to do with the restriction of your freedoms?

      10 mask men break into a gallery in the US and its on the front page of every newspaper the next day. Russian and the US are not even comparable when it comes to freedom of speech.
    • dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8people are killed in America everyday. Thousands have gone missing and detained without trial........Sounds a lot like the good ol 'Soviet Union' to me....

      You are never free unless you are constantly fighting for your freedom..it may be a paradox, but it's better then giving up and becoming slaves....

      So note to Americas: Don't take what you have for granted. Soon this could be you.
    • rzinger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@jagdhund

      I have lived in other places, like former Soviet Union... and no, I don't want to live in a country like that again... Yeah, we haven't reached the bottom yet... but we are on the way with the recent bills that have been passed into laws... Why do you want to compare the US at something less than preferable, rather than to what we think it should be?
    • kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I've been shot by a stray bullet during a driveby a month ago, and I live in the good ole US of A.

      Anyway I have a friend up in Russia. Met the guy when I was in Turkey. Russia has a lot of problems. YOu see. When you go from a commmunist economy system to a capitalist system.... You get this....
  • OMGWTFROFLMAO, on 10/12/2007, -15/+8damn islamo-fascists!
  • vvvv, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4Hmmm, I wonder if Russian interference is the reason the Georgia Bulldogs football team are having such an unexpectedly bad.
    • EbowUK, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1... run?

      ... time with gambling debts?

      ... case of flatulence?

      Never underestimate the power of the 2 minute Edit window ;)
  • dsol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Blah blah blah. A lot of it is true and relevant but it's presented in a lopsided, sloppy, fairy-tale way by msnbc. For a somewhat more critical look at recent events and their media coverage

    http://www.exile.ru/2006-October-20/where_is_americas_politkovskaya.html

    I should add that I am American but have lived in Russia a little over a year in 2004-2005. Don't believe the hype, though don't disbelieve it completely either...
    • retcon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3@jeeves
      so you'll dismiss newsweek out of hand, but willingly embrace exile.ru without question?
    • EndofEternity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Are you stupid? Exile.ru is not a real newspaper. It's like a comedy type newspaper. Your crazy.

      Russia is ***** up and you know it. The police and government encourage racism. Non-white are killed on a regular basis and no one cares. There is no free speech, no court system and you can get killed if you publicly criticize the government.

      When was the last time you heard objective news about whats goings on in Ukraine/Georgia/Chechnya on RTR or Channel 1?
  • VladZ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5This is a highly political article that uses some facts to support an invalid viewpoint. Granted, there is a lot racism in Russia and these fascists groups are well funded, but there are no valid reasons to suspect that the government in general and Putin in particular are affiliated with them.
    • orielbean, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Actually, Putin has been accused of sharing goals with the hate groups - he was caught using one of the nationalist (read: racist) groups' catch phrases and so on.

      And the Colombia rioting was expressed best by Jon Stewart - "thanks to the students for making Sean Hannity look reasonable. And to the anti-immigrant speaker - if you can't secure the podium, how will you secure the border?" That was ***** hilarious.
    • EndofEternity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Try living in Russia as a foreigner. Racism is a part of the country/people/government. For instance the chief of police of St. Petersburg blamed foreigners for not doing enough to protect themselves. Russian cops are the most racist assholes I've ever met.

      Most Russians sympathize with nationalist/fascists *****. They want to punish Georgia and Ukraine cause they dared act independent.

      Russians have civil society. The country is full of thugs!
  • kerby74, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1Maybe after bringing down communism in the Soviet Union and Western Europe.... America should have stuck around to help them establish their new governments and economies.... oh wait, not enough f***ing oil in those countries to entice that!
    • Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6EXCUSE ME? Ever hear of the Marshall Plan? Do you know how much that cost us? Did you ever hear of the Berlin Air Lift?
      We supported Europe after WWII, perhaps only because we were opposing communism. Well, all I have to do is point to the examples set by Russia and North Korea to show the results of dictatorship/communism with poor economies.
      I think we did a lot of work and spent a lot of money to help Europe.
    • orielbean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@jaghund - your two examples were excellent - they clearly show what the modern world is capable of doing when united, and it does keep me hopeful as to humanity's inherent goodness in the face of apathy and cultural antagonism.

      Unfortunately, we performed both the Marshall plan and Berlin Air lift only because of Stalin's belligerence and our own opposition to Stalinism-Communism. We don't seem to have a good enough reason to spend and improve today's hot spots to a point where things in a country end up being better than before we entered. Not that it is impossible, but the will is not there to get capable administrators and popular support for our works.
    • JamieBarrows, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@orielbean
      I'm not sure that it is possible with our current culture. The culture in the USA is radically different from the culture that we had after WWII. I'm not talking money. The US gives Billions in aid each year.
  • bepcyc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11OMG
    You're so stupid if you really think that Russia is full of hate & nationalism
    No more than USA, believe me

    You must visit our country before you can say such a foolish things

    You didn't try even to know what is this story with Georgians is about and you say "Georgians are good and russians are bad" - we're americans, we know everything

    I live in Russia and I can say that nobody hates georgians here, they're like brothers for us. But their president, Saakashvili has his own advantages from the situation when everybody thinks that Russia hates Georgia. That's not so.

    Don't be blind! Do not let politicians play with you in their games!
    • orielbean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1That is a good point - we only have a few outlets to understand the Russian dynamic - partly b/c of their own unique recusal of glasnost and transparency.
    • millyuns, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Thank you bebcyc,
      It's nice to have the Russian POV on this. However, I do think you need our point of view on how we and other outsiders view your country just as much as we need your point of view on how you and others view our country. Just lose the anger and filter out the tripe. There are cooler heads on this forum who don't get inflammatory. Try to be one of them and help lift us out of our xenophobic haze.
    • Azur2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1edit.
    • EndofEternity, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I lived Moscow for 11 years and I know you are lying. Russians hate Georgians. Ever wondered where the word "hatchiki" comes from?

      Russia is full of hate and nationalism. Most Russians engage in a kind of mental masturbation when they eat the ***** the government tells them on TV. Killings of non-white people is common in Russia and it's encouraged by government policies. Most police chiefs don't even recognize the existence of skin-heads.

      Russia is fascists state. You have no law, no respect for cultures and no tolerance. Just try living in Moscow for a couple of years.

      Show em a Ukranian passport and listen to the crap they will tell you. "Ti shto? Hahol?"

      ***** Russia!
    • gothfox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Thanks, Endofeternity. I didn't laugh like that for weeks. :)
  • Obvioustroll, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4So, is this much different than when students at Columbia University prevent a man from speaking because they don't like him?

    I'm just wondering why people approve of what happened at Columbia while they condemn what's happening in Russia.
    • orielbean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Do you have quotes from Diggers commenting in both threads? This sounds like you are presenting a straw-man argument. I think those students are very misguided to use violence in that situation, just as I think the Minutemen are misguided in their hatred of illegals as the source of American employment woes. Blame the employers who lie and cheat on payroll taxes and benefit payments, not the poor schmuck travelling through the desert to pick fruit off a tree or build your patio.
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The kids didn't touch anybody. The unedited video (and there have been several edited versions of the video circulating for some reason) clearly shows the Minutemen grabbing the kids, tearing their banners, and throwing them off of the stage.

      Was it impolite and uncivil? Very. Was what they did properly resolved with violence? No.
  • MacLiberal, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Russia is indeed a concern however they still have to catch up to america, let us hope that they don't sink to that level.
  • trovoltex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ask Marat Gelman, what type of art he had?
    Look http://www.impavillon.at/ausstell/2006/bluenose/bluenose.html you see Mr Putin, Mr Bush and Mr Binladen in the bed.

    This is the freedom of speech and of art. And freedom of expression of what we see.
  • ezxs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1My fellow Americans. The Old World and Russia included a deeply nationalistic societies. The same people that have conquered or discovered the land they are on have been sharing culture for centuries. It should come as no surprise that a nationalistic tone plays well and everyone pays lip service to anti racism regulation. This is no US. Don't be shocked. It really goes both ways on a lot of the issues - Georgians pick on Russians and vice versa. Hopefully the global economy and easier travel is going to change some misconceptions but right now I probably would not make a permanent home in any place where I didn't belong. I don't believe it's going to change in our generation.
  • Azur2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So much *****. 40 dead regime-and/or-mafia-critical journalists in two years, and that one single killer has ever been arrested, speaks volume about the political situation in Russia.

    Anyone who wants to know what's actually going on in russia can, for instance, check here: http://www.rferl.org/features/default.aspx?Year=2006&Month=10&Day=29

    And yes, racism and antisemitism is common.

    For some reason americans want to believe that russia is a peaceful and stable democracy with a west-style rule of law - it is none of those things.
  • jmchez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Has there ever been a nation and its people that has undergone the kind of pain and struggle --which in scope and duration dwarfs all other-- like Russia?

    Foreign subjugation by an alien culture (Mongols), tyrannical autocracy (Czars), foreign invasions with mind-boggling destruction and loss of life (French and Germans), totalitarian dictarships (Communists), corrupt and kleptocratic oligarchy and now virulent racism which could lead to fascism. The mind reels.

    Many nations have had some or most of these misfortunes but, like I said, in scope and duration no one approaches Russia's sad tale. It's almost like they got covered by the most merciless of curses.
  • kinship, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Russia - the new Germany?
    • Azur2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You mean pre-ww2 Germany? No, it's nothing like that. It's just that the new Russia is the *old* Russia: it's an authoritarian country with aspirations to reclaim its empire. The system of government can best be described as 'feudal', controlled by a band of ultra-powerful oligarchs, all of them way above the law, and nominally led by the most powerful oligarch, Putin.
      An analogy is to see russia as led by a group of mafia families, with Putin as the godfather - it's not far from the truth.

      There is no free press or freedom of speech, there is no independent judicial system, there is no freedom of business (as most recently Shell found out: if an oligarch wants your business he'll simply take it), and you oppose or meddle in the affairs of any oligarch or minor boss at your own peril.

  • kiryam, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1идите нахуй тупые забугорцы
    • EbowUK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Which translates as

      Go (something) stupid (something)

      Anyone fill in the blanks?

      I'm guessing it's not a valuable contribution to the discussion...
    • zestyhedgehog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Go ***** yourself, stupid oversea people." It is hard to translate those two words because they don't have literal analogues in English.
  • vkore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1To everyone complaining that America is becoming like Soviet Russia, that it IS Soviet Russia, we have no rights anymore, it's so bad, etc: Yeah, there are some things that are wrong about the American government, but please don't compare it to Russia until you've lived there.

    An interesting experiment for you would be to live in Russia as an American with an inadequate knowledge of Russian: when I went back to visit my relatives two years ago (obviously my family left Russia when they could get out), we went to the Red Square, the most obvious tourist site in the country. NO one spoke English or provided information in any other languages than Russian, even though there were lots of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. And if anyone asked the Russians for information, they just laughed and insulted them in Russian.

    I could give you a million other stories, about Jewish/Georgian/Siberian/Asian discrimination, about how the police takes bribes to beat specific people. But the point is, stop complaining about America when you know nothing about Russia.
    • Azur2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Absolutely right. If the US was Russia, critics like Olberman would long since be dead, from an "accident", "food poisoning", or "street robbery", the New York Times closed and most of its journalists dead or imprisoned, Kerry would be imprisoned for life on some made-up charge (because he ran for president), the US would have occupied Mexico and there be fighting a war much, much, dirtier than the one in Iraq, and president Bush would not only personally own the five largest companies in the country, but he'd have publicly stated that even though he'll formally step down as president when his term is up, he'll retain power.

      The people comparing the US to Russia are either heavily into hyperbole, or are seriously clueless.
  • willard34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I find the story to be a little suspect, as with most media these days. Is it just alarmist rhetoric, or is there a real danger of Russia becoming the Fourth Reich? Doubtful. I have had the chance to visit Russia, albeit that was 17 years ago ( omg that long...i'm old), and with all the Cold War hype, you'd think we were walking into the bear's den. I was temporarily stationed aboard one of two ships which were the first to pull into Sevestopol since the end of WWII. The Russians there were so unbelievably friendly and welcoming, I don't think I paid for a damn thing the entire time I was there. And from what I hear, our Russian counterparts visiting Norfolk VA (poor bastards...we got the better deal there by far), had just a great a time. One thing I did notice, even in the predomonantly slavic Yalta, was that there was a still a great diversity amongst the people, but the vibe I got was that they were all Russians. Like I said, that was 17 years ago, under the USSR, but have things changed that much? Doesn't sound like Russians are any less proud nor diverse.
  • thefoxtrot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1not a single in soviet russia joke?
  • EbowUK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Can anyone recommend any Russian blogs written by ordinary people, or am I living in a Disney movie believing such things exist?
  • iSlayter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Almost all comments is tremendously stupid.
    Author is liar.
    EbowUK - my blog is iSlayter.com
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