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42 Comments
- PulentoMAC, on 07/08/2009, -3/+28what's more unbelievable? that these things happened or that finally someone is willing to use parliamentary privilege to speak the truth?
Wow!:
"The Americans have made a clean breast of their complicity, whilst explicitly not prosecuting the junior officers who were acting under instruction. We have done the opposite. As it stands, we are awaiting a police investigation which will presumably end in the prosecution of frontline officers. At the same time the government is fighting tooth and nail to use state secrecy to cover up both crimes and political embarrassments, to protect those who are the real villains of the piece, those who approved the policies in the first place." - truthspeaker, on 07/08/2009, -4/+16Hey look, NPR. They used the word torture!
- jonglebeats, on 07/08/2009, -0/+10What's up with the idiots on Digg recently?
- apzdsx, on 07/08/2009, -4/+14Barbaric.
What's worse is that the guy could have been innocent or he could really be a terrorist and now has people sympathizing for him due to the government's use of torture, not to mention get a large paycheck which could go to funding more terrorism. - AnotherDiggGuy, on 07/08/2009, -1/+10Whatever. I'm come to accept some people have no clue how America has remained successful for 200 years, and would ignorantly watch it fail to satisfy ideology they apparently don't understand.
- aesur, on 07/08/2009, -1/+9Yea, and why do we arrest christians here in america am i rite?
- luke374, on 07/08/2009, -1/+8Right ... ***** trials! Just chop to death with a sword anybody who might have committed a crime!! YEE HAW!
- Laughingman42, on 07/08/2009, -1/+7They must just be trollin'. No reasonable person would defend America's position on the torture that took place.
- Hetman, on 07/08/2009, -2/+8Are you a Christian? If you are then this is not an eye for an eye type of world. You sir would be considered a barbarian.
- Laughingman42, on 07/08/2009, -1/+6I don't care whether or not is is America or any other country. Torture is despicable. Torture is not a valid "interrogation technique" of any kind and works against the goal of obtaining information. Torture gives the enemies of the torturers real ammunition, real injustices to complain against, so it is hurting America's war. Torture is wrong. I don't care if it's America or China or England or Pakistan. I don't care, torture is wrong everywhere.
- Pigeon, on 07/08/2009, -2/+6Lots of Americans are Christian. They're not innocent.
See how stupid that sounds now?
PS. I think both religions need to be wiped out. But with education and science, not guns. - Cyberdropping, on 07/08/2009, -5/+8The problem is, we are no different than the people we hate. So, what business do we have pulling out their nails? What makes us better? what justifies our other actions? Oh yeah, We lovve freedom and justice and they don't ... game over. We are worse than them because we hide our true nature. At least they are on the up and up.
Let the money flow.... - inactive, on 07/08/2009, -0/+3We all know when you have all of your finger nails removed you lose a few pounds in the process.
FROM THE ***** ARTICLE (you didn't bother to read)
"viciously tortured by the ISI. He [Ahmed] claims among other things, he was beaten with wooden staves, the size of cricket stumps,whipped with a three-foot length of tyre rubber and had three fingernails removed from his left hand. There is a dispute between British intelligence officers as to exactly when his fingernails were removed, but an independent pathologist confirmed it happened during the period when he was in Pakistani custody." - yonoz, on 07/09/2009, -1/+2BTW, if torturing someone can prevent death, and *your* purpose is preventing torture, then you are also facilitating death for *your* purpose.
- mrukz, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1Very interesting view yonoz. Now, you express your views just as clearly as an NPR obmudsman did recently:
http://digg.com/d1w40R?e
FTA:
She also said -- when the host asked about the recent example I cited of NPR's calling what was done to a reporter in Gambia "torture" (at the 20:20 mark) -- that NPR will use the word "torture" to describe what other governments do because they do it merely to sadistically inflict pain on people while the U.S. did it for a noble reason: to obtain information about Terrorist attacks. That's really what she said: that when the U.S. did it (as opposed to Evil countries), it was for a good reason. Leaving aside the factual falsity of her claim about American motives, Shepard actually thinks that "torture" is determined by the motive with which the suffering is inflicted.
Well, I do not wish you to get tortured by someone who decides that their motive is noble.
As to the article in question:
British authorities:
• Tipped off the ISI that Ahmed was on his way.
• Told the ISI he was a terrorist and suggested that he should be detained.
• Were aware of the methods used by the ISI while questioning terrorism suspects.
• Drew up a list of questions for the ISI to put to Ahmed.
• Questioned him themselves after he had been in ISI custody for around 13 days.
As you can see, the involvement was indeed direct. Just the complicity and awareness would be bad by itself, but MI5 went further than that (see the points above, FTA). I am sure that you would see a problem has not the man had a brown shade and a big beard.
BTW, the thinking like yours is the plague of today's world. We get tons of people who think that torture is OK, as long as it is done to "them" and for the right reason. You have truly disappointed me, but my expectations were probably to high to begin with. - yonoz, on 07/09/2009, -1/+2Did you read the article? Where does it say anything about "direct involvement"? Do you consider complicity and awareness direct involvement? If you do, and you are aware that Pakistan is torturing people and are not doing anything about it, then you are directly involved in torture.
- enchantedlisa, on 07/27/2009, -0/+1This is not done just by our government. This technology can get onto the wrong hands and they do this torture to innocent people like you and me. V2K and gang stalking. They say they want to help you. If I told you what they wanted you would laugh. Not information either.
- inactive, on 07/08/2009, -1/+2You left the part out where they pulled his finger nails off...
- PulentoMAC, on 07/08/2009, -7/+8oh noooo, that's loooking @ d past! we should be looking to d future -- in the words of wimp-arse republicrat presidents...
- GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -0/+1Right2BMe... a regular habit? The only example you cite is Daniel Pearl (whose captors had VERY white arms and necks).
"Claims", "claims", "claims"...
You're a douche.
I could ***** you up for weeks, and there would be no visible scars... but you would still be ***** up. (I'm one of those guys that the government trained to do bad things, but I am well and truly off the reservation).
Then, I would hope that some other ***** mocked YOUR "claims". That would make me happy, little Sayan. - GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -1/+1Tubal22, don't be such a *****. How do you know when you START torturing, if he 'has information'?
If I claim you 'have information' that I want, should I just start beating the ***** out of you? - poidh, on 07/08/2009, -2/+1I heard he did that himself. It was worth it for the propaganda as well.
- GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -1/+0You're a ***** moron, HoosierDONK. It's an eye for an eye that caused the WTC - folks got sick of having the US "all up in they *****".
You're the kind of ***** who is prepared to off some poor ***** just because yo massah tells you he mighta done something bad. You're a house negro. - GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -1/+0"...a police investigation which will presumably end in the prosecution of frontline officers."
Oh please, PulentoMAC... whoever wrote that is a water-carrier for the problem.
What happened to the triggermen who assassinated de Menezes? NOTHING.
What happened to the ***** who killed Ian Tomlinson? NOTHING.
Notice something? The attempted protection of the identities of the ***** who perpetrate thuggery on behalf of the State.
Pixellate the faces of the state goons (and give them kevlar vests) but display the face of their innocent victim.
The kevlar comes off at home. Their identities are, doubtless, the subject of interested research. Taking the tyrant's coin to act as a thug may carry a price that these vermin don't think about as they're getting off on torturing and killing people. - mrukz, on 07/09/2009, -2/+1Did you read the article? There is a problem with torture in general, whether in Pakistan or elsewhere, but this article discusses direct involvement of UK in organizing torture of a British citizen. It does not matter who actually ripped out his nails; what matters is that his (British) government was directly involved in facilitating his torture for *its* purposes.
- poidh, on 07/08/2009, -3/+1Yeah, cos Christianity and Islam are the same and just as much of a threat. Idiot.
- newman8r, on 07/08/2009, -4/+3this was the first thing I thought too, as I'd only heard of MI6... but yes it does exist.
- GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -2/+0Why are the faces of the state goons pixellated, but the face of the tortured man made clear?
Why wouldn't the media show the face of the killer-thug who lied on his job application - instead, they showed his victim, Ian Tomlinson? Why do we have the name of the victim, but not the perpetrator?
Not to worry - there is a band of committed folks ensuring that all these names go 'in the hat'. Carry a spear for tyrants, into the hat you go. - Tubal22, on 07/08/2009, -5/+3I personally wouldn't torture anyone. It's not my style.
Just like it's not my style to fly planes into buildings, or put backpacks filled with bombs in the subway.
But if this guy really planned on killing people and had information that would help save lives, torture him. If he doesn't want to get hurt, he'll talk.
Doesn't bother me at all. - GeoffreyTransom, on 07/09/2009, -2/+0Tubal22, don't be such a *****. How do you know when you START torturing, if he 'has information'?
If I claim you 'have information' that I want, should I just start beating the ***** out of you? If you don't want to get hurt, you'll talk.
And if it's not your style to fly planes into buildings... is it your 'style' to fly $1billion bombers and $300million fighter-bombers and destroy civilian sewerage works and water treatment plants and hospitals?
Is some ***** who drops a bombs from thousands of feet in the air, or sends a drone missile into a wedding party, morally superior to the guys who 'did' the WTC?
Here's a hint: your kind has been slaughtering civilians since the invasion of the Philippines. - Zarchon, on 07/08/2009, -5/+2Who are these people that sympathize with him? Oh, you mean people like you who are against anything America does anyway. Yeah, like you should be happy because this validates everything you fell about America.
- inactive, on 07/08/2009, -3/+0I have heard of worse, not worth reading. I read this one time that terrorists captured this guy named Daniel Pearl and cut off his head. Apparently they made a regular habit of cutting off people's heads or displaying their brutally mutilated murdered dead bodies. Obviously this doesn't count as torture. Apparently Terrorists are just too nice to torture. We should be like them and just end it quick.
P.S. Bunch of "claims" but the guy is still eating better than most of Britain. - poidh, on 07/08/2009, -8/+2We? *We* didn't pull out his nails.
I doubt anyone pulled out his nails actually, except perhaps he himself. - yonoz, on 07/08/2009, -8/+2If they were to arrest him before he traveled to Pakistan, with insufficient evidence, The Guardian would be crying "Islamophobes!"
He was a member of Al-Qaida who went to Pakistan of his own free will, thereby subjecting himself to their jurisdiction.
The torture is his and Pakistan's problem. - Cyberdropping, on 07/08/2009, -7/+1Money. didn't you read - they subcontracted them. Just like the good ol' USofA. Pay someone to do your dirty work, then run around claiming the US/ Britain whoever does not torture. Nope! They don't- they just have it done somewhere that does not give a crap, with a little "defense" money under the table. Probably some perks for the right politicians too, straight to their secret accounts.
The sad thing is- we are paying for this.... : ( - poidh, on 07/08/2009, -11/+1The guy's an Islamist. He isn't innocent.
- th3gh05t, on 07/08/2009, -10/+1MI5? You sure about that?
- Presbyterian, on 07/08/2009, -11/+0This doesn't even make sense.
We're talking about Pakistan, why would they torture an Islamic terrorist. - inactive, on 07/08/2009, -11/+0He looks well fed. Torture should at least cause you to lose wieght.
Nicole Richie has suffered more than this guy. - poidh, on 07/08/2009, -16/+2"he was beaten with wooden staves, the size of cricket stumps,whipped with a three-foot length of tyre rubber"
Wishful thinking on his part, the kinky bugger. - Tubal22, on 07/08/2009, -18/+2So what's the problem?
- HoosierDONK, on 07/08/2009, -18/+2Son of a bitch doesn't look like he's been tortured? Tell him to take his clothes off.. let's see his fingernails..Hell looks like he's been eating pretty good. I would have used a sword to cut off an arm. Bitch would talk then.. When I finished with the son of a bitch I would have rolled him over on his back and let him look at me while I chopped is ***** head off.. It's an eye for an eye sorta world. Now sure ain't the time to shrivel up and feel compassion for these people. We have them boxed between Pakistani forces and our forces in Afghanistan. Let's get this ***** finished. Get up out of the defensive position we've been in for years in Afghanistan and finish it. One of these days you people will be glad the MI5 was around looking out for your sissy asses.
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