What is Digg?385 Comments
- Buddhist, on 10/12/2007, -12/+90...This isn't gonna end well.
- William01, on 10/12/2007, -23/+90I would like to refer people to two comments made by user "kooft" in an earlier story in reference to the "wipe Israel off the map" quote:
"Translations of Ahmadinejad's speech have him saying "wipe Israel from the pages of history". According to those familiar with Farsi there is no Iranian idiom for "wipe off the map", it's a purely western phrase. If you leave his comment in context you'll here him say something like: "Just like the USSR and the Shah, the Zionist regime will be wiped from the pages of history". If he were to have said "wipe off the map" then how does that apply to the USSR and Shah? The fall of the Soviet Union wasn't a genocide and neither was the fall of the Shah. He was clearly speaking of the government of Israel and not Jewish people in general."
http://www.digg.com/political_opinion/The_Timeline_of_Saddam_s_reign_from_the_early_days_with_CIA_to_the_present#c4583300
"'TIME: You have been quoted as saying Israel should be wiped off the map. Was that merely rhetoric, or do you mean it?
Ahmadinejad: People in the world are free to think the way they wish. We do not insist they should change their views. Our position toward the Palestinian question is clear: We say that a nation has been displaced from its own land. Palestinian people are killed in their own lands, by those who are not original inhabitants, and they have come from far areas of the world and have occupied those homes. Our suggestion is that the five million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes, and then the entire people of those lands hold a referendum and choose their own system of government. This is a democratic and popular way. Do you have any other suggestions?'
He's clearly stating that if the Palestinians were allowed to return to their homes and everyone (including Jews) vote for a government that the Jewish government of Israel would cease to be. It wouldn't happen through a genocide, but through a democratic process and the greater number of Palestinians (compared to Jews).
Not that Wikipedia is the end-all for research, but it has a whole section dedicated to this on the Ahmadinejad page. Here's a pertinent bit:
'Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, translates the Persian phrase as:
"The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."'"
http://www.digg.com/political_opinion/The_Timeline_of_Saddam_s_reign_from_the_early_days_with_CIA_to_the_present#c4585108 - asteron, on 10/12/2007, -24/+76@michaeltime
"Wipe off the map does not necessarily mean NUKE. It just means that Israel should perhaps leave. "
I'm sorry but what kind of deluded fool do you have to be to interpret "wipe off the map" as anything but a threat to the existence of Israel? That kind of apologetic attitude is riculously blind in the face of reality. - alder, on 10/12/2007, -69/+119"What kind of storm would this unleash?"
Good question!
Here's an even better one:
What happens when Iran completes its well-advanced nuclear project, and makes good on its repeated threats to "wipe Israel (and then the US) off the map"?
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/archive/archive?ArchiveId=15816
Those threats were repeated numerous times.
Do you prefer full-scale nuclear war, with at least three parties that are fully nuclear capable and throw everything they got on each other?
Or is a tactical nukes preemptive strike really the better - if not only - way for the world to come out in one piece from the clutches of insanely fanatic and violent Iranian regime getting close to wielding the ultimate weapon? - alder, on 10/12/2007, -46/+82"Name a country that Iran has attacked in recent memory?"
Can I name three?
1. Iraq, leading to the massacre of millions of Iraqis and Iranians. The Iranian regime was perfectly pleased by the useless death of millions, many of whom were its own people, because all that blood drew the Shi'ite messiah closer.
2. Israel, through its proxy Hezbollah, trained, armed and regularly reinforced by the Iranian elite revolutionary guard. Sheik Nasrallah acts under direct orders from Tehran.
3. The USA, Britain, and many countries in Europe, by funding thousands terrorist cells throughout the world. Why do you think they are on every list of terror supporting states? - Vincep1974, on 10/12/2007, -52/+88Iran attacked Israel via proxy Hezbelloh last summer.
Iran has attacked the United States repeatedly since 1979 - jdavid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+37When have UN Sactions worked?
- Cam_86, on 10/12/2007, -19/+52Yeah, those jews so CLEARLY deserve all that hatred... I mean just look at all that crap they pulled in the last 100 years... like nearly getting eradicated, and defending the tiny country from people who target there children and elderly.
:| - alder, on 10/12/2007, -25/+57@sooperdooper:
The "Cold War" remained "cold" - and even so only barely - because decision makers on both sides were ultimately rational people.
The current Iranian regime is taking orders straight from God. Read the link I posted. Know that "Imam" they're talking about? It's the Shi'ite messiah. Sort of like Jesus, only for him to come, appearantly lots of people have to die.
But really, I thought it was expressed clearly enough in the direct quote from Iran's supreme leader: "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map".
Your reading comprehension is fine, I assume. So any particular reason why you believe the world will stay safe when the hand of this nut is on the big red button? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33This is supposed to be a 'secret' plan huh?
- Cam_86, on 10/12/2007, -18/+47Are you living under a rock?
Ahmadinejad is building nuclear reactors, capable or creating weapons grade uranium.
Ahmadinejad has said Israel should be pushed into the ocean.
Ahmadinejad denies the holocaust happened.
Ahmadinejad plays nice and 'sane' when hes in the worlds view, but goes bat-***** insane with anti-west/Israel rhetoric in his own country.
The worst part is, this is prob. the smartest way of dealing with Iran... Get Israel to do the dirty work, and behind closed doors kiss there ass cause they just saved America and the rest of the west from getting into a dirty situation. Israel does not even need to give people in that region a justified reason for them to be hated so much, so they might as well earn that despise they have coming at them. I don't know if Israel would actually use nukes to take out Iran's nuclear plants though.... - nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30"Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout."
Makes the Hammer of Dawn look like a tiddlywink. - barryannarbor, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37Israel has had nuclear weapons since the 1960's. And has never threatened a neighbor with them. No Israeli leader has ever publicly stated that he would exterminate Iran, or any other Arab country.
It's not a religous double standard, it's a question about whether a country run by a lunatic should be armed with nuclear weaponry. - mmm620, on 10/12/2007, -3/+29"***** jews"
you make it pretty easy to tell the difference between a bigot and someone who simply disagrees with Israel's policies. - Vincep1974, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35To all you Non-Muslims... it's not widely known, but Muslims are allowed to give false information to Non-Muslims during Jihad. It's called Taqiyya.
Take anything they tell you with a grain of salt.
taqiyya (pronounced tark-e-ya) : precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping one's convictions secret and
a synonymous term, kitman: mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions...
Taqiyya and kitman or 'holy hypocrisy' has been diffused throughout Arabic culture for over fourteen hundred years since it was developed by Shiites as a means of defence and concealment of beliefs against Sunni unbelievers. As the Prophet said: 'he who keeps secrets shall soon attain his objectives.'
The skilful use of taqiyya and kitman was often a matter of life and death against enemies; it is also a matter of life and death to many contemporary Islamic terrorists - asteron, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32You do know that Israel never signed the Non-proliferation Treaty? Iran has however and is legally bound to not develope nuclear weapons.
As for your disarming claim, you really think you can disarm muslim countries left and right? These are people who fire machine guns into the air for celebration, suicide bomb at the drop of a hat, and have a militant history going back over 1000 years. Good luck with that. - kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -12/+36"Yeah, but on the bright side, at least it will end."
end?
Yeah, I'm sure pre-emptively nuking another country will be entirely without consequence. I'm sure the rest of the middle east will just lay down arms, and not erupt into some sort of nightmarish bloodbath.
Look at how well our current pre-emptive war has been going! - barryannarbor, on 10/12/2007, -9/+30You've been pretty brainwashed, haven't you?
The PLO, after being expelled from Jordan and Syria, entered Lebanon in the late 1970's and did their best to destabilize that country. They terrorized the Christian community and created their own mini-state. They proceeded to use southern Lebanon to attack northern Israel - all the time with the entire Arab world essentially cheering them on, and the UN simply ignoring the issue.
It was the Moslem PLO, not the Jewish Israelis, who attacked the Marronite Christian population.
Get your history correct. - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -12/+32Mel Gibson?
- alder, on 10/12/2007, -55/+75"Wipe off the map does not necessarily mean NUKE. It just means that Israel should perhaps leave. "
OMG, I can't believe someone actually said that. "Leave"?! ROFL. "Leave" where? It's a country with 7 million citizens.
And yeah, "wipe off the map" means they should just pack all those sky scrapers, busses, freeways, schools, kindergartens, apartment buildings and just... leave.
Things you read on Digg... That comment just made my day. - kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -15/+34Nikita Kruschov promised to "bury" the US back in the 60s.
By your bizarro logic, then starting world war 3 would have been the only correct response. Fortunately, not everyone thinks murdering people is the correct response to ***** foreign leaders talking smack. - sheldonwilson, on 10/12/2007, -19/+38While the use of nukes is a scary notion, so are the comments made by Ahmadinejad. He has often said he wants peace when interviewed by our reporters, but to his he makes promises to destroy Israel and the US(the Little Satan and the Great Satan, respectively). If we sit back and insist on only peaceful negotiations and sanctions, we may end up with a larger problem on our hands similar to the war and holocaust that came about due to the world's initial inaction with Hitler. I am not saying that war with Iran is necessarily the best solution, but if it comes to that the world should stand with Israel to make sure that Mahmoud's promises do not come to fruition.
- AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21War is not kindergarten. We have two standards, yes, -- one for our allies and one for our enemies. That's the way the world works.
- JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Uh, not really. I think it has more to do with the fact that ever since World War I, Isreal has been one of the only countries in the Middle East to support us. Isreal is an ally, while the other nations hate America. American allies get certain rights from the American Government that American enemies do not. Iran wants to destroy Isreal and America by any means possible, including the use of nuclear weapons. Isreal and the US want to prevent this by any means possible, even if it means using nuclear weapons to wipe their out (so they have no chance to bounce back and launch any weapons that weren't destroyed if they used conventional bombs).
- William01, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19@alder & ploke
It is not murky. There were small border skirmishes for many years. Then Iraq launched a full-scale invasion of Iran.
Do you consider placement of blame for the Korean war "murky"? There also, there were small border skirmishes for many years, but then North Korea launched a full-scale invasion of South Korea. Do you consider South Korea "aggressive" because it had taken part in these skirmishes before the invasion, and because it fought back when attacked? I doubt it. - carve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13You don't get nuclear weapons and then decide when, where, and how to use them on a whim at the spur of the moment. You draw up contingency plans for every situation. We probably have plans to do the same- it does't mean we're going to do it.
- Vincep1974, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I think you're thinking of Depleted Uranium? It's a type of armor. It's not a nuclear reaction weapn.
- AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17What kind of Empire is the size of New Jersey? And giving back land they won in defensive wars?
- VindictivePantz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14No nukes were used in Afghanistan.
Uranium tipped shells puncture enemy armor more effectively, but it has nothing to do with an actual nuclear detonation. The US uses them, but how often and how much, I am not sure of. - barryannarbor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Not in Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv. And when a nuclear attack does occur, the Western nations will hem and haw, and do nothing.
- bobbyi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16"When have UN Sactions worked?"
Apartheid in South Africa is the first thing that comes to mind. - mclumber1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Pakistan, a Muslim nation has nukes.
- asteron, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25@michaeltime
"Yes, the existence of a country that should never have come to existence. Not the people. Not jews. Israel..big difference."
I'm not sure if you are aware of this but the country of Israel is filled with Israelis. You think they can destroy a country without harming any of the people? The most important function of a government is the protection of its people. Any government that would not do everything in its power against a threat to its people is illegitimate. - Tzvi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13In Hebrew, the term empire was used in the same way as viable nation or country. Your Wikipedia link is to an article completely unrelated- the actual Jewish empire which did exist 3000 years ago. Just like the Persian (Iranian) one 2300 years ago.
- tonto69, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19This is one of the few times I would support Israel. But they better go it alone and not try to 'cajole' the U.S. into it as the article states.
- sanman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Who the hell is going to be able to stop him once he DOES have the capacity to act? You stop somebody BEFORE they have the capacity to do nuclear attacks. You DON'T wait until AFTER they've acquired this ability, YOU MORON.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14One statement by a defense minister ages ago doesn't define Israeli policy. Take your propaganda elsewhere.
- Tenlow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16With what?
Explain to me how the Jews caused this and why they need to be "replaced"
And I'd also like someone to explain to me why elbxmatatan's comment is getting dugg up. - ebs16, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13The Arabs fighting in Lebanon WERE civilians. It wasn't the Lebanese Army that initiated that attacks which provoked the war, it was Hezbollah, an essentially private organization composed of civilians, fighting out of Lebanese communities. This is a great tactic on the part of the Arabs, as they get to count all of their deaths as "civilian" casualties, criminalizing Israel until they can stockpile enough Iranian weapons to organize another attack.
And for the record, the Lebanese side of the recent war with Israel was backed by a tremendous amount of Iranian money and MILITARY TECHNOLOGY. When nuclear weapons are added to Iran's technological repertoire, you can be sure that Iran will start sending those Hezbollah's way... And that's only if Iran choses not to wipe out Israel on it's own. - ebs16, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Israel's plan is not intended to make the world safer, per se, it's an attempt to stop it from becoming a hell of a lot more dangerous. Israel wants to take out Iran TODAY, before it can become an even larger INTERNATIONAL threat.
- sooperdooper, on 10/12/2007, -15/+27@alder
I'm sure some people wouldn't mind another cold war at all...
Which could very well be a possibility since "Mad Dog" Ahmanidejad doesn't exactly control the military. - shteinb, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Thats a naive thing to say...Israel is as prepared for an offensive war as any country in the world, apart from the US, Russia and China. It has arguably one of the best trained militaries in the world (compulsory, serious training for all citizens). A very impressive arsenal of high tech weaponry, both purchased abroad and self developed(Israel designs a large part of the US arsenal). Certainly the most powerful missile and aircraft supply. Finally it has a working missile defense system. Ofcourse it still has the ultimate defense as you said... Don't use what happened in Lebanon as a frame of reference, that was not a real war, more like a high level operation. Israel's hands were tied, it was trying not to cause civilian deaths, and had no intention of toppelling the Lebanese government.
As for the article itself... I don't buy it. A plan might exist... but hey the US has plans for a Canadian invasion, among many other ludicrous contingencies. - Vincep1974, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21sheldonwilson:
You fool! You misinterpeted the Leader of Iran. What he said was he wanted to stop by Olmert's house later and listen to CDs and stuff.
[sarcasm directed at other people] - ploke, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18@William01 and Michaeltime:
I just covered this in last term in my "Modern history of Iraq" course:
Iraq probably was planning to attack Iran for some time but the precise date of Iraqi attack was chosen because of a recurring attack on an Iraqi suburb (on civilians) by Iranian artillery. Iran's (small) attack basically prompted Iraq's massive retaliatory attack (although Iraq would have probably attacked later without provocation).
The whole situation is murky but to say that Iraq attacked Iran first and not qualify it at all is definitely incorrect. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Amazing how a civil war in the Palestinian Territories between Hamas and Fatah doesn't make Digg front-page news, but unsubstantiated anti-Israeli propaganda does.
- AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Blue states can tell who are our enemies and who are our allies as well as red states. When facing a madman like Ahmedinejad, we are all Americans.
- nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Anybody who supports israel has no clue about the recent history of the middle east."
Why not go ahead and enlighten us with your version of recent history of the middle east. So far all you've done is sling insults. - AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15It is essential to remember that Iran has been in a state of war with the West since 1979 when they took over the US Embassy, which is and always has been an act of war. Here's what Khomeini said in 1979 about the war between Islam and Infidel:
Khomeini explained in a radio address from November 1979 that the current struggle amounts to a “war between Muslims and pagans”: “The Muslims must rise up in this struggle, which is more a struggle between unbelievers and Islam than one between Iran and America: between all unbelievers and the Muslims. The Muslims must rise up and triumph in this struggle.”
www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/4884331.html - CzechRebel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13@ raskalz
Thanks for revealing your age and level of intelligence. Since you admit to being a dumb 13-year-old, we will be nice.
Adults are trying to discuss serious subjects here. You are welcome to read all you like. But you don’t need to be posting your age and relative intellectual capability. - Ndiggnation, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@Vincep1974 It's not only a type of armor. Certain ordinance, I believe, is tipped with it in order to punch through tough targets.
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