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71 Comments
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -4/+26Rape, looting, religious violence, forced prostitution, suicide bombers...but hey they got democracy now! USA! USA! USA!
- limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -4/+20I am Iraqi, and I feel disgusted by this.
- limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -1/+17I Migrated 8 years ago, but most of my family is there.
I support the American army for liberating Iraq, but not for occupying it. - dygel, on 04/18/2009, -0/+12Actually, we should be involved. The whole world should. But we in the US no longer have any moral authority (if we ever did) to wag our fingers at another nation for torture.
- limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -1/+11Wow...I don't know how to reason with what you just said.
Iraqi do not know what freedom is (yet), they lived under dictatorship for 35 years.
But, there are alot of iraq's outside of iraq, that UNDERSTAND freedom. I for one, live in Canada, and know that freedom is both a gift and a responsibility. - Charmill1974, on 04/18/2009, -0/+9this is awful!
- loaff, on 04/18/2009, -0/+9Sayid?
- charlietuna, on 04/18/2009, -0/+9Agreed. We tried the ignition of democracy tactic per the neocon manifesto of the Project for The New American Century (PNAC).
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0119-04.ht ...
It failed.
With all the requisite apologies to both idealistic liberals and new world order neocons I suggest that It is time to return to soft power and the tacit support of friendly dictatorships while gently encouraging regime change. Countries (such as South Korea) eventually come around, otherwise stop with this jackbooted intrusive foreign policy - salstress, on 04/18/2009, -1/+9I suppose if another person's child were getting abused you would be fine with that too, since it is their child and you shouldn't be involved. Or how about if your neighbor were slaughtering cats for fun, I suppose that would be okay with you too, because after all they are his cats and what has that to do with you? Or if you knew that girls were being sold into slavery and forced to be prostitutes to service rich tourists, that would probably be okay with you too, I mean what business is it of yours right?
Obviously none of these things are okay, nor is torture in Iraq. Your apathy is appalling, especially when all that is required of you in this forum is an opinion. - stealthspc, on 04/18/2009, -1/+9You don't impeach someone who isn't President anymore.
- Protonz, on 04/18/2009, -1/+9Yeah, I mean the US is not responsible for its own actions.
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -0/+8Saddam Hussein's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years. Approximately 600,000 Iraqis have died from violence since the U.S.-led invasion in '03. Some estimates are much higher.
The figures just speak for themselves. - Protonz, on 04/18/2009, -1/+8@michaelrsamichaelrsa: And how many civilians were unintentionally killed?
Would you feel the collateral damage was okay if China invaded the US to ... stop drugs lets say. And the same number of innocent Americans were killed?
Your nationalism is showing. - bpwned, on 04/18/2009, -0/+7Actually it was involved in a war against Iran. Guess who supported Iraq against Iran. You most likely won't like the answer.
- seltaeb4, on 04/18/2009, -1/+8Funny, I remember when Bush would hold a press conference on Iraq (what, once or twice?) and his answer of last resort, after the questioners had torn him to shreds over his inane justifications, broke out his stupid look yet again and said, "Uh, they used to have rape rooms before."
So, it looks like they still do... and more likely, they never went away. - JoeMondo, on 04/18/2009, -1/+8So we spent how much money, how many lives to turn a not-good situation into a slightly different not-good situation?
Wonderful. - limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -0/+5Khiva, you must understand that the Iraqi people for 7000 years have seen different empires come and go, and only for the natural resources that Iraq has ( Fertile crescent). So to the Iraqi people, America needs to prove its real intention, which was very vague under the bush administration.
They don't care if the Americans are there, they just don't want tanks, helicopters, f-16's and soldiers in their cities. - kublerross, on 04/18/2009, -0/+5stupid Iraqis they're doing it wrong, at least we ship our Americans to Gitmo or other foreign prisons to torture them.
- michaelrsa, on 04/18/2009, -1/+6Read the article, its about Iraqis torturing Iraqis.
It'd be the equivilant of Americans torturing Americans. - futurepastnow, on 04/18/2009, -3/+8If they want to torture people, that's really too bad, but it is their country and we shouldn't be involved anymore.
- limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -1/+6have you even been in the middle east buddy?
- stealthspc, on 04/18/2009, -2/+7If you actually read the article, it said most of those tortures were by the Shi'ite militias and the Iraqi government.
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -3/+8The nightmare is that the Iraqis were better off under Saddam.
- RatatRatR, on 04/18/2009, -0/+5People who deliver important speeches to large crowds routinely use teleprompters, you dumb *****.
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -0/+4It seems you are arguing my point for me.
- waleedo, on 04/18/2009, -0/+4Report shows, "No *****".
- limpboy, on 04/18/2009, -1/+5I have actually.
It nice there, good people, good food, bad Media and governments though.
Iraq is not like every middle eastern country, its the only true Arabic democracy, and its the most destroyed state, haunted by war(s) . I know that cause am from there. - thecomputer40, on 04/18/2009, -1/+5Haha, nice one. For those that don't get the reference, Sayid is a character from the amazing-and-mind-blowing show Lost who once was a torturer in Iraq.
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -2/+6Some Democracy...
- almj, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4lol, dugg up for explaining it to me...
- NUMBER4940, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4@stealth, Sometimes I am more interested in the opinions on an article than the article itself. I did assume things. Next time I will read the article instead of just the summary before I comment.
- RatatRatR, on 04/18/2009, -0/+4Yeah, I'm so tired of anti-war sentiment. War rules.
- lhbaker, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4They had order, food, electricity, hospitals, and clean water. Now they have none of those things. Hundreds of thousands have been killed by not only our bombs, but by our inability to control the nation.
Saddam had Iraq under control. Look at it now and tell me how he pulled that off. You may not think they're better off, but I think most of them would disagree with you. - jack104, on 04/18/2009, -1/+5The article wasn't about Bush's responsibility for torture, it was about Iraqi's torturing Iraqis.
- Khiva, on 04/18/2009, -2/+6@AirNike - Wow.....just, wow. Just when I think that people like you have to be made up, leftists just pounding out a caricature of a deranged right-winger to scare everyone into thinking that the right-wing is insane, well ....then I actually _meet_ one of you.
@limpboy - I'm genuinely curious about this. Are Iraqi people just unhappy about the way the American presence in Iraq has been handled, or do they honestly want the Americans all out of the country tomorrow? I'd really like to know this, because I hear criticisms of the "occupation" quite a lot, but do people really believe that the Iraqi forces are sufficient at present to hold the security situation together? - Khiva, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3Thanks limpboy, that does help.
I think this was an enormous mistake that Americans made going in. In all honesty, Americans truly believe that they are good guys, genuinely trying to do good things, and it just doesn't cross their minds that the rest of the world could see them differently. So it doesn't occur to them to take every precaution to ensure that their intentions (presuming they are as good as Americans take them to be) are not misunderstood.
I'd be seriously creeped out if I saw a foreign country's tanks outside my door too, particularly if I had an easily exploitable resource burbling beneath the surface. Americans just don't get how everyone could be so suspicious of them, and the rest of the world just can't believe that Americans would be so naive. Mix those together and you've got trouble. - charlietuna, on 04/18/2009, -1/+4I am all for the power of the pen, but if you are saying that I should send my children to die to save someone else's kids, then I would respectfully say, no. Let the UN pass some resolutions of condemnation instead.
- aijazbaig1, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3Here is a look at Washington's shady dealings with Iraq since the mid sixties. From the New York Times
http://digg.com/political_opinion/A_Tyrant_40_Year ...
From the FTA:
The Iraqi leader seen as a grave threat in 1963 was Abdel Karim Kassem, a general who five years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy. Washington's role in the coup went unreported at the time and has been little noted since. America's anti-Kassem intrigue has been widely substantiated, however, in disclosures by the Senate Committee on Intelligence and in the work of journalists and historians like David Wise, an authority on the C.I.A.
FTA:
"The United States also sent arms to the new regime, weapons later used against the same Kurdish insurgents the United States had backed against Kassem and then abandoned. Soon, Western corporations like Mobil, Bechtel and British Petroleum were doing business with Baghdad -- for American firms, their first major involvement in Iraq."
Also from the FTA
"As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of Kassem in 1958.
According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite -- killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures." - lhbaker, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3Hey, *****: This isn't about the troops, Don't be lazy. Read the article.
- Arkyll, on 07/16/2009, -3/+6And we expected different?
- tnsimonson, on 04/18/2009, -0/+3Props for using "abjured" and "diminution" in the same sentence. Nice.
- charlietuna, on 04/18/2009, -2/+5I wouldn't say it quite so glibly, but in essence, yes.
- MGreaves, on 04/20/2009, -0/+3It's disgusting
- offrdbandit, on 04/18/2009, -2/+4And the rational citizens of the US could care less if you leave now.
- stealthspc, on 04/18/2009, -3/+5God forbid anybody actually read the article before spewing their anti-war hippie hate.
- michaelrsa, on 04/18/2009, -2/+4No, but I'm aware of Saddam Hussain's activities while he was in power. Let's just say that he wasn't a big fan of those Kurds.
Plus, the U.S. isn't intentionally killing civilians, its either they're in the crossfire or else some insane soldier decides to kill them based on his own choice. - inactive, on 04/18/2009, -3/+5Why you lived in iraq before the US invasion?
- ChristPissed, on 04/19/2009, -1/+3"~The Horror~...~The Horror~" (FU neocons version)
- michaelrsa, on 04/18/2009, -4/+6It wasn't exactly peaches and cream before hand either.
- manteca29, on 04/18/2009, -1/+3dugg down for being the "explain the joke guy".
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