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Religion & Culture are Not to Blame for Tensions between Islam and the West

worldpublicopinion.org — In a suprising global poll, most believe that "tensions between Islam and the West arise from conflicts over political power and interests and not from differences of religion and culture, according to a BBC World Service poll across 27 countries."

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  • Zafras, on 10/12/2007, -63/+35*****.
    • fancypantscz, on 10/12/2007, -16/+46I think we all know public opinion polls are open to manipulation because one can formulate a question specifically to solicit a particular response. I am always suspicious of such polls especially when they do not tell you who conducted the poll. However, in this case they do disclose a great deal about the survey; not just who conducted it but the actual questions themselves. So, go check it out for yourself...

      http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb07/BBC_IslamWest_Feb07_quaire.pdf

      The fact that you give no supporting statements for your view exposes your position on the article as slanderous. Perhaps you are part of an intolerant minority that is pushing the rest of us towards conflict for your own political gain.

      I wish more opinion polls would disclose the actual questions that they ask. And regardless of your stance on surveys and opinion polls I think this one in particular brings to light some very important issues and deserves some consideration and debate even if it challenges your world view.
    • Lixie, on 10/12/2007, -21/+15I always knew honor killings had nothing to do with. /sarcasm
    • JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -25/+11It may be about power but their antiquated religion and culture are largely to blame for their lack of it. Life in their society sucks but instead of changing, moving forward and catching up with the West, they'd rather try to pull the rest of the world down to their level by way of terrorism.

      Anyone see the 60 Minutes story on the Iraqi Kurds last night and the progress they are making?
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -20/+12"I think we all know public opinion polls are open to manipulation because one can formulate a question specifically to solicit a particular response."

      The PIPA is one of the most respected polling agencies in the world. Good on you for trying to deny fact though, it's a really popular tactic among Republicans these days.
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21I also find it pretty sad that you didn't even bother to look at the included survey.

      The question was as follows-

      Thinking about the tensions between Islam and the West -- do you think they arise more from differences of religion and culture or from conflicts about power and interests?


      I cannot imagine how that question could be any less biased or simply put. You and all like you are utterly disgusting for ignoring factual evidence when it doesn't agree with your ideology.
    • jcims, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7@givemereplay

      Read fancypantscz full comment. I came to the same conclusion as you the first time i read it, where i stopped at the first sentence the first time around.
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12You're absolutely right. Sorry for that. My statement still stands in reference to the original poster who called the study *****, and all others who consider this study void simply because they disagree with its results.
    • stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4uh oh. What are the college "I just started rebelling against Christianity three years ago" atheists gonna do when they see this. OH yea...complain about how polls are innaccurate...but when the polls show a rise in atheism, then its the beginning of the revolution.
    • Canister, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4givemereplay:

      You just went off about fancypantscz, saying how disgusted you were that he "didn't bother to read the survey" ... "Good on you for trying to deny fact though, it's a really popular tactic among Republicans these days." .... "You and all like you are utterly disgusting for ignoring factual evidence when it doesn't agree with your ideology. " ...

      Did you read his whole post? 3rd Sentence: "However, in this case they do disclose a great deal about the survey..." Then a link to the survey! You missed his point entirely!

      Good on you for jumping to conclusions based on part of a statement. If the Republican tactic is to 'ignore factual evidence', what are you showing as the Democrat tactic? Formulate a personal attack based on a fraction of a statement?
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Incorrect, I simply made the assumption that he was joining on the ***** bandwagon with the OP. Republicans are quite predictable in that sense. I was mistaken, and I apologized. My point still holds, but not towards him. Also, I can't recall the last time that the Democrats alone formulated a personal attack on a political opponent, but I can recall the last time that the Republicans compared a triple amputee Democrat who served in Vietnam to Osama bin Laden. Don't delude yourself.
    • smartass007, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4people everywhere are rather simple-minded and lazy. they are not sure what to do or why to do it. therefore, so-called 'leaders' step in to fill in the power vacuum. because there is more than one contending leader, different camps rally around different leaders and violence ensues. in america we see this 'violence' played out with elections, judicial actions, protests, blogs, political satire, boycotts, etc. in iraq, it's accomplished in the mosque, and in the streets with militias and death squads. in islamic culture, there's no division between religion and state power. some muslims try to be more secular and democratic, but there is a lot of pressure against them. clerics, mullahs, imams, etc. still hold sway over the masses because the whole concept of a western style democracy is so alien, raw, unpolished, and mostly a failed concept. they are usually short-lived and are followed by theocracies or dictatorships (with a nod towards symbolic islamic control. i.e. saddam hussein put an islamic slogan in iraq's flag after his 1991 defeat in kuwait to assuage the muslim guilt over losing ground and face to the west).

      now we see muslims leaving their countries to immigrate to europe and america. they come because there is more freedom, wealth, education....in short, a better life. but they still hold on to their muslim identity because it is so strongly ingrained in them and they also need those 'big answers' about life, death, the 'afterlife' that many westerners cling to their beloved christianity for. then the islamic leaders of these european immigrants come into europe from muslim countries and import their aggressive ideologies against western 'immorality' and pressure their adherents to reject the west, foment 'resistance' to the perceived 'injustices' and 'humiliations' against them, and recruit some towards violence both within their host countries and abroad. muslim women are mostly kept as under-educated, stay-at-home breeding machines and the muslim population in europe will become dominant within a century. it's true that not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim and unfortunatly, history has shown that the majority can and always is ruled by the violent minority, whether that violent minority rules by legislature or suicide car bomb.

      things don't look so good for free-thinking, peace-loving people or their children.
    • Jujubes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@givemereplay

      "Also, I can't recall the last time that the Democrats alone formulated a personal attack on a political opponent..."

      Like Liberman when he went Independent?

      You really don't like paying attention to things, do you?
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2What personal attack did he suffer? That he was too close to the Republicans? Oh how dare they disagree with his political stances?! A personal attack would be calling John Kerry a coward and a traitor for dissenting about the Vietnam war that he fought in.
    • Jujubes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@givemereplay

      I'm thinking more about commenting on how his beard was stained red with blood, along with a number of other attacks centered around him being Jewish.
    • daxsymbiont, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1check out noam chomsky's sayings for some comprehensive left wing analysis on the issue. http://chomsky.info
    • chubbstar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5i think that poll is innately flawed in that it presupposed that it could not be both BOTH conflicts of political power and AND differences of religion and culture.

    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"i think that poll is innately flawed in that it presupposed that it could not be both BOTH conflicts of political power and AND differences of religion and culture."

      Take a look at the poll before you speak.

      "I'm thinking more about commenting on how his beard was stained red with blood, along with a number of other attacks centered around him being Jewish."

      Please point out when he suffered these attacks and by who. No, the Daily Kos does not count, at least not anymore than all of the Republican whack job bloggers who spew similar insults on a daily basis. Find me a Democrat involved in politics directly who assailed Leiberman's ethnicity/religion. Criticizing him for his undying support of Israel itself is not a personal attack.
    • JonGalt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So it looks like pollsters are targeting retards for thier results now. The first poster said it right about these polls.
  • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -41/+13True. Islam wants to control the world. No I am not making this up. They want the entire world to convert to Islam and have said so on many occasions. If we don't listen, it is our own peril. So in a sense it is about POWER.
    • fancypantscz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30Given your understanding of Islam, those of us currently exercising our freedoms under stable democracies are in a terrible position; give up our freedoms or commit genocide.

      I for one refuse both of these options because they are equal failures. The only functional recourse I see is though education, tolerance, and dialog across the Islamic/Western divide. All the while we must pursue the CONTAINMENT of radical Islam. I don’t see how the so called war on terror does any of this and as a result it has been so devastating to everyone's interests including our own.

      Also, Um... you do understand that by being utterly intolerant of any Muslim we are exactly as intolerant as the perceived enemy. Doesn't your stance in fact legitimate Islamic Jihad?
    • baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -23/+10i would rather die fighting for my freedom than to submit to islam, besides i like BBQ pork and good booze too much...
    • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7huh I don't recall saying anything about genocide. Wonder how you came up with that?

      So just how do you plan on containing radical Islam without any threat of fighting back?

      I wouldn't go as far as you with the we are the same as the enemy stance. I am just fine with Muslims remaining Muslims and living peacefully in their countries and do not want to have them all change to the Christian religion.
    • loudribs, on 10/12/2007, -14/+14 aceg1357...Idiots like you make me want to convert to Islam just so I can declare a big fat jihad on your ignorant ass. This whole 'war on terror'/'clash of civilations' ***** is nothing to do with religion per se....it is to do with fundamentalists. Islam is based on a (very old) book, just like christianity. Within both of these religions holy books, you will find references to some truely awful beliefs....like stoning people to death, putting gays to the sword, etc etc. Do the bulk of christians believe that all gays should be killed? No, most don't (although I'm sure a few fundamentalists do). Likewise, do the bulk of muslims believe that all muslims should be converted or killed? No, the vast majority don't. Fundamentalism is a problem, but at the end of the day it matters very little what form that fundamentalism takes (be it Islamic, Christian, vegetarain, whatever the ***** you want to get fundamental about). The fact of the matter is that they are deeply disturbed inviduals who don't believe that the normal codes of decency apply to them. To say that this is the will of Islam is to suggest that every Muslim out there is gunning for our blood and that simply isn't true, just as if a Muslim was to say 'every christian wants us dead'. So stop with your craziness and stop making a bad situation worse. Meanwhile, I'll try and come up with a way of putting the 'fun' back in 'fundamentalism'.
    • fancypantscz, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18I think it is beyond question that 9-11 was and is continually used and abused for political advantage in the US. Beyond that, it was successfully misused as justification for the invasion of Iraq. 9-11 is also the unspoken evidence supporting the opinion that Muslims threaten freedom inside America.

      All humans have the ability to think for themselves yet people are being led to believe that ALL Muslims are radical and violent. People are being told that only Muslims are terrorists. If you believe such notions it will affect your view on politics, push your interests in the direction of national security, and ultimately effect how you vote.

      It is also clear to me that an intolerant minority is energetically promoting this Islamophobic stance. Digg is a decent microcosm in which to inform your own opinion on this. If you check out AdmiralAdama's submissions you will notice an inordinate number highlighting Muslim violence. If you read his comments he makes his intentions clear, "This pattern is becoming too much for even the Mainstream Media to ignore for much longer, right?"
      http://www.digg.com/politics/Nashville_Muslim_cabbie_tries_to_run_down_two_students_after_fight_over_r

      Please understand this is not a personal attack because I am not condemning AdmiralAdama’s actions. He has a right to promote any view he sees fit. However, I would like to know why he posts the things he posts. It appears that he is as an example of an individual going out of his way to demonize Islam and part of an intolerant minority that many of us around the world see as the cause behind the tension between Islam and the west.

      Intolerant minorities in Islamic nations are probably more persuasive than in the west. However, the only way to safeguard freedom in the US and promote it around the world is to indiscriminately stand firm against intolerance in all forms and from all sides not just against radical Islam.
    • fancypantscz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2darn
    • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3What does that remind me of.... Oh yes, every other world religion.
    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Watch the Power of Nightmares and stop being an ignorant twit.
    • stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13You all do know that radicalism goes hand in hand with poverty right? Even in america, you don't see many soldiers from wealthy families. It's economic factors, not religious, that lead to this kind of situation.
    • stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7aceg1357
      So just how do you plan on containing radical Islam without any threat of fighting back?
      How about by not exploiting economically unstable Muslim countries for our benefit like we do with 3rd world countries everywhere. Economics is the root cause of all this. Stable economies and low poverty=cutting fundamentalism's legs off.
    • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1@ loudribs

      "Idiots like you make me want to convert to Islam" Now that is a new one. Most liberals say they will leave the US, never seem to get around to it, but you want to change religions. Then you imply that Muslims are violent by saying only when you convert to Islam can you get violent with me. Nice!!!!!
      To top it all off you say it isn't about religion, it is about fundamentalism in religion. Ummmm I really hope you can see the flaw in your argument.

      Oh and I love the radicalism goes hand in hand argument by some. Yes most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. They aren't doing too bad.



    • Tsuyoi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"You all do know that radicalism goes hand in hand with poverty right?"

      Apparently humiliation is a huge part of becoming a fundamentalist. People that feel or are humiliated and have low self-esteem are easy prey for those that seek followers in a fundamentalist belief. It's one reason why there's such a huge "victim mentality" in a lot of groups. Make the followers believe they are being oppressed, humiliated and victims and they are much more willing to commit attrocities.
  • CarpeFishem, on 10/12/2007, -19/+8Apologists of radical Islam are what Lenin would call "useful idiots."
    • fancypantscz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Who is apologizing for radical Islam?

    • aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I don't know about apologizing, but the non-radical Islamists sure seem to tolerate radical Islam. That's still pretty bad.

      Let me put it this way. If you knew Ted Kaczynski was blowing people up in the 70's, and did nothing because you didn't like technology either, you're just as bad as Ted.
  • CarpeFishem, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7Lol, an article about collecting people's opinions that is submitted from www.worldpublicopinion.org is submitted under "World News," not political opinion.

    Buried.
    • laterthandawn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It's news if it's a report about polling amongst 27 countries...it isn't saying "I think there was a poll that said this..." THAT would be opinion. The report about the poll is a news story.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Nearly all news boils down to opinion. If everything that wasn't an absolute and undeniable fact was moved to political opinion then the news section would be empty.
    • hammerpants, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2@ CarpeFishem:

      Agreed. Since when did polls become news? Journos are so lazy. Go find a story and tell me about that. This isn't news.
  • laterthandawn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Of course it's about conquest and power to a strong degree, but identity -- the "us versus them" mentality -- is where it starts. Our religion (or lack thereof)and culture both define us within that context -- otherwise, we'd be "taking ***** from ourselves," so to speak. If there's not a "them," we have no one to fight with over issue X, right? And you also have to take into account the fact that anyone who says "I'm going to take your *****, cause God told me to..." is saying "I'm going to take your political power/interests cause God said your people suck, and therefore I can." Soo...how is religion not involved? I think this simplifies the roots of the issues FAR too much...and that certainly doesn't help with that whole "finding solutions" thing.

    And, as an aside: any idea/ideal/social trait/end goal becomes toxic in too large an amount. It's just like poison -- everything and nothing is truly poisonous, it's just a matter of quantity. With that in mind "Radical ______" sucks. Stick Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc in there...it all works. Same goes for Imperialism, Capitalism, and so on. So, to the people that suggest Islam is either bad or somehow protected from any scrutiny...I say we ought to not worry about the "Islam" part (as it's a belief system just like any other), and get busy figuring out how to quell the "radical" bit...that's the issue.

    And please don't tell me Islam is somehow wholely unique in being violent...have you read the Old Testament?
    • stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6laterthandawn
      "I'm going to take your *****, cause God told me to..." is saying "I'm going to take your political power/interests cause God said your people suck, and therefore I can."
      As you unknowingly said, the thoughts concerning greed and power come first. Im going to take your *****, BECAUSE God told me to. The instinctual power grab comes first, followed by using religion as an excuse or disguise. It's all human nature showing itself through different nations' cultural systems and filters.
    • laterthandawn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1stonewall
      I totally see your point, but as our "clans" grow (from village to city to country to globe, thanks to communications technology), culture/religion is a defining factor in keeping us united in our separation (so to speak -- the "us vs them"). In other words, George W. Bush doesn't know 99.99999999% of the country but a (constantly diminishing) portion of us identify and support him. Why? "For God and Country."..."Religion and Culture." We're all greedy, we all have self interest...but what unites a populace behind one man's/group's self interest? Religion and culture...If this were about one person vs one person, you'd be totally right. That's why I'm saying it's not nearly as simple as this faulty poll suggests.
  • jivatmanx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I think the conclusions come to by this poll are true, if you subsitute "political" with "economic". People really underestimate a certain force on the world stage, and it is called humiliation. Realize that the majority of the Hiajckers were well off and what sparked their conversion to radicalism was the realization of how poor most muslim countries are compared to the west.
    I can guarantee you that if the muslim world was as well off financially as the west, muslim extremism would be an absolute non-issue, and nobody would even feel that islam is a more violent religion than christianity. When countries become richer, they always become more moderate in their religious beliefs, always.

    The only political effect I see is a simple one. Did anyone notice how after 9/11 everyone in the U.S. became jingoists? Well, it works pretty similar in every country. If a country feels threatened, they WILL elect more radical, conservative, militarizing leaders. And, when the largest, most powerful country in the world essentially calls the muslim world "The Axis of Evil", well, I think you know what happens.

    I also feel that people truly underestimate the effect that diplomacy and political rhetoric have. There was a reason we don't still have a (relatively) moderate person like Arafat as head of palestine. It's because there's not a Clinton as Head of the U.S., and I firmly believe that. And to those who say "9/11 changed everything", need I remind you of how many peaceful Iranian demostrations there were in support of the United States? This opportunity could have easily been used to improve relations with the muslim world to better that pre 9/11 levels, by letting them denounce terrorism, and fostering relations with them.

    There's no bad religions, just bad leaders. The people never want war, but the leaders know how to make it so.

    • jc807, on 10/12/2007, -12/+0You call Arafat a moderate? Maybe I don't understand what that word means. He had many opportunities for peace and wanted nothing of it.

      The problem with this poll is that it tries to separate political power/interests from religion/culture when in fact they are completely integral parts in Muslim society. Even in the so-called "secular" middle eastern states, it's easy to point out major cultural and religious based violations (ie, Saddam was a Sunni Ba'athist(essentially Arab supremacy)yet his govt was commonly referred to as secular, Turkey is a good example as well regarding the Kurds). It's basically like saying the Nazi's were secular because the gov't didn't dictate their lifestyle based on religious text.
    • stonewaljacksn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2jivatmanx
      agreed. im shocked to see you've been dugg up without bashing religion.
  • drjekelmrhyde, on 10/12/2007, -19/+1I had a Jewish girlfriend and after that a Muslim one I would get up cook about a pack of bacon and eat it all right in thier faces while they ate the waffles and juice I gave them
  • hamobu, on 10/12/2007, -12/+18Today's world problems are not caused by radical Islam. They are caused by Oil and Israel. US Supports brutal regime in that part of the world (and many other parts of the world as well). Iranians hate us, not because of Islam, but because we supported a brutal dictator who ruled over them. When Iranians finally freed themselves from our dictator, we got Iraq to attack Iran (with another brutal dictator we supported), and then we sold weapons to both sides so that they could kill each other in maximum numbers.

    Israel is trying to create ethnically pure state for Jews only, so they oppress local Arabs, and the whole thing is justified in the US, by presenting Arabs as savages who deserve to be cleansed.
    • AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -14/+6Hamobu is here to tell us that there is nothing to worry about from Islam, but we must kill all the Joooos.
    • sullivans, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3wow, would you like some hot mustard with your mushroom cloud?
    • hamobu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"Hamobu is here to tell us that there is nothing to worry about from Islam, but we must kill all the Joooos."

      Adama! Accusing me of anti-semitism is pretty low, even for you.
    • mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"Israel is trying to create ethnically pure state for Jews only, so they oppress local Arabs, and the whole thing is justified in the US, by presenting Arabs as savages who deserve to be cleansed."

      Arabs do a fine job of presenting themselves as savages by themselves.

    • hamobu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Arabs do a fine job of presenting themselves as savages by themselves."

      Yeah! Those Arabs with their peace full protests against Israeli occupation! How dare they protest against Apartheid wall and demolition of their houses!!! /sarcasm
    • Pfhreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Arabs do a fine job of presenting themselves as savages by themselves."

      No, the American media does a fine job of presenting them as savages. I know a few Muslims that came to the US for college, and they're all perfectly normal people. Hell, two of them, one a Saudi Sunni, the other a Persian Shi'a, even got engaged. They could overlook the differences that people in Iraq are killing each other over, so why can't we overlook the differences?
  • firefoxman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1http://duggmirror.com
  • AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6This is like polling Europe in 1938 and finding out that most Europeans don't think war with Germany is inevitable. It doesn't matter what the Europeans think -- it matters what the Jihadists do. And they've declared war on the infidel like they have for 1400 years.
  • CraigJ, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Uh, yes, they are.
  • cr4ft, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@drjekelmrhyde
    "I had a Jewish girlfriend and after that a Muslim one I would get up cook about a pack of bacon and eat it all right in thier faces while they ate the waffles and juice I gave them"

    Yeah that would be funny...until you see people giving your fat-ass dirty stares because you're taking up 2 seats on the bus.
  • ninjacell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The results of the poll increased my hope and belief that there are still people with their hearts and brains at the right place.
    "Not the religions failed us, we (the humans) failed our religions" as Hamza Yusuf says. Bad people are using religion or sometimes different ideologies to mobilise people against their self-made enemies. This was the case when the crusades were initiated to unite Europe against Islam, and this is the case now when people who happened to born in so-called Muslim countries are being used for terror acts. In the past it was harder to find Muslims that would agree to such acts, because they were aware of the jurisprudence of their religion. Now, you can find people in heaps that would do anything for money or other materialistic goods of this world, and their commitment to their religion is limited with the word 'Islam' stated as their denomination in their pass, and nothing more.
  • sullivans, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0All I know is i'm gonna watch "24" tonite and root for Jack.. Bauer Power!
  • dwiezel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is not a black and white issue -- its all over the board but at the end of the day most people want to live in peace, raise their families, prosper, be healthy and live in freedom without big brother watching their every move. However, in some countries there are the few that want to control the masses -- whether their motive is political, religious or driven by some other alterior motive -- it does not matter. Its those people that put the lives of others in danger and dash the hopes for world peace.
    • sullivans, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0I concur dwiezel. we have been put in the misfortunate position of facing our own extinction not based on our own actions but of those of another. It does'nt matter if the issue is religion, racism, or anything else. We are where we are and the fact is we must survive by surpassing whatever actions the offensive takes to destroy us. It's very simple, so simple it's difficult to comprehend. They want us converted to Islam or dead, it's really our choice now what will we do, the timer is ticking.....
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8If you honestly believe that a rogue group of a few thousand so called terrorists is going to be able to convert this country of 300 million to Shiara law via terrorist attacks, you live in a fantasy world within your own mind and the Fox News Channel.
    • sullivans, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1it does'nt matter if we believe they can or cannot convert us, the issue is they believe they will either convert or destroy us based on their interpretation of the Koran. And furthermore, a dirty or clean nuke does not differentiate between beliefs, it kills just as many muslims as it does christians..
  • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Anyone who takes a look at the situation can plainly see that political differences and money interests are the cause of the conflict, and religion is the rallying cry. People like Osama bin Laden would not even be known today had we not funded what would become Al-Qaeda to fight the USSR in Afghanistan. We all know that there was no logical reason to invade Iraq, but it was done anyway, and has itself become a rallying cry for "terrorists". For some reason however, we do not invade countries like North Korea, who have nuclear weapons and are a genuine threat, nor do we intervene in war torn countries in Africa, in which slaughters of magnitudes unknown in Iraq are currently taking place. One of two things must be true; either the US government is entirely incompetent, and has been since World War Two, or the conflicts that are currently taking place in the Middle East mirror those that took place in Vietnam and Korea, in that they are politically motivated. We Americans can hardly even comprehend this concept, as the idea that a culture war exists is perpetuated by the media and the presidency.
    • SunThe1, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2We do not invade countries like North Korea when there is a possible alternative: in this case (and hopefully in the case of Iran) we can hope to squeeze them economically to a point where behaving peacefully is in their best interests. This requires the cooperation of other countries who aren't all that wild about giving up the piles of money they're making. (As many of our European buddies were doing in Iraq, and some continue in Iran).

      We don't intervene in war torn countries like Africa, because it wouldn't change much, even though we would like to see things change in those places. And, to be truthful, you have to pick your battles. War torn Africa isn't a US security issue.

      We went into Iraq and Afghanistan on an honest belief that it would change the dynamics of middle eastern politics in ways that affect future security of the US (and the rest of the world). It already has. Whether the rest of our goals (free and just societies there) in those countries are fully realized remains to be seen.
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"We do not invade countries like North Korea when there is a possible alternative"

      There was no possible alternative in Iraq? I've got one, how about not invading Iraq?

      "We don't intervene in war torn countries like Africa, because it wouldn't change much, even though we would like to see things change in those places. And, to be truthful, you have to pick your battles. War torn Africa isn't a US security issue."

      Nor was Iraq, but we decided to liberate those people from tyranny and genocide then didn't we?

      "We went into Iraq and Afghanistan on an honest belief that it would change the dynamics of middle eastern politics in ways that affect future security of the US (and the rest of the world). It already has. Whether the rest of our goals (free and just societies there) in those countries are fully realized remains to be seen."

      Dynamics of middle eastern politics? Lets not even bother mentioning that that was not a war aim in either country initially. I can't even comprehend how you could justify invading a country 3000 miles away and in the process getting probably well over one million people killed because it is in the interest of the US to have another pro US strongman in the region to take the place of Saddam and the waining house of Saud.
  • alrahman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6369529.stm#table
  • graberc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I would agree with the summary - Religon is not a cause of war, it is the rallying cry.

    Money, Power, Greed - (or lack thereof) can create a lot of humiliation in a people. . .

    Terrorists are very much like the German people of WWIII. Humiliated, destroyed, with no hope - they turned to whatever means they could find to strike back. Hitler used them, and made a rallying cry of how strong and great the people were.

    Radicals are the same, just different rallying cry for a humiliated group of people without even a hope of a future life or opportunity.
    • sullivans, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0So they're justified by their poverty? what about a person's freewill, I could be down on my luck but it's my choice to either flip burgers or rob a liqour store...
    • givemereplay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No one is justifying anything- the man is simply pointing out that there is a cause for every action. People who believe that we are in Iraq because they hate our freedom, and we had to stop the spread of radical Islam are ignorant. Iraq was a secular state.
  • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4no duh!

    of course its not the real reason...
    the real reason is power and dominance...

    but religion and cultural strife are the motivating force used on the simple masses to turn them into rabid morons.

    get rid of religion and you get rid of one more tool used by power grabbers, otherwise known as leaders, to make people act and think irrationally
    • SunThe1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"get rid of religion and you get rid of one more tool "...Are you that naive?
      That's like saying abolish money so people won't be greedy. To say that religion is a tool of the powergrabbers is kind of an odd concept. In point of fact, a dictatorship usually relies on a lack of religion... mostly they outlaw religion. Rethink, dude.
    • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2>> "get rid of religion and you get rid of one more tool "...Are you that naive?
      >> That's like saying abolish money so people won't be greedy. To say that
      >> religion is a tool of the powergrabbers is kind of an odd concept. In point
      >> of fact, a dictatorship usually relies on a lack of religion... mostly they
      >> outlaw religion. Rethink, dude.

      Wrong wrong and wrong...

      Dictatorships only despise religions that actively promote peace and non-violence, like Buddhism and Mormonism and Quackers etc...

      If America was a true Christian nation, it would never justify going to war, because it is against their beliefs.

      Did you know that Christians used to be a strongly non-violent religion? That goes back to the beginning, but the Romans managed to subvert the religion away from such strong beliefs in non-violence and meld them into their fold, because Christians were being a nuisance.

      And so now you have religions like Christianity in the US where people like Pat Robertson talk of killing people and muslim clerics calling for peoples throats to be slit. even the japanese institution subverted their own religion to justify death and force during ww2.

      im sorry, but you are the naive one.

      its all about power and politics. religion is the tool. all you have to do is get an issue which is strongly important to people and make them feel threatened. islam vs christianity, democracy vs communism, etc...
    • SunThe1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't disagree with you on most of that... but "getting rid of religion" is not the answer (unless you meant get rid of it as an excuse... then I buy your argument).
      As for dictators only fearing buddhism and quakers, you'd have to think again on that one: there's the tiny matter of the jews, and the christians (not the Pat Robertsons who give christianity a bad name).
  • XISUPERMANIX, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2The east always think they are cooler. Like Biggie and Tupac but we all know the west is better.
  • dwiezel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2What is most disturbing is that the few perpetuate this self-destructive direction toward which humankind is heading in due somewhat to the fear and ignorance of the masses which ultimately has led to its subjugation! End the cycle! There is plenty to go around and if we focused on our similarites instead of our differences we could do amazing things. The USA is a great country because it is a true melting pot and its population represents the entire world! Why can't we get passed this self-destructive pattern? Will we enter into another dark age due to a devastating world war -- is that what it will take to change our world?
  • evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2"Tension between Islam and the West" ?

    Wtf - is the next study going to be about the tension between Rasta and the North? Shinto and macaroni salad? Mattresses and hyperintelligent shades of the color blue?
  • protogenxl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2this is a push poll
  • cr4ft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@evilTak

    Some people are funny....some people are not....and I can promise you you're not the former.
  • cal0001, on 10/12/2007, -3/+260% of people in the US believe that the earth is less than 6000 years old. It doesn't hake it so

    a pole prove nothing other than the opinions/believes of those surveyed

    I put this question to you if religion didn't exist would the world trade center still be standing, would people have been burnt for being witches, would there have been a holocaust in Germany, would there be a war in Iraq, would there be trouble in northern Ireland, would there be scamming faith healers, would there be so on and so on.
    • rossmcd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4pal, religion isn't the root cause of those conflicts. it was the basis used for defining a group of people as the "other" and the justification for violence. if religion didn't exist people would just as easily find other ways of dividing people into "us" and "them" and using violence to take what they want. hell, it's been happening anyway. racism, american civil war, the sectarian violence in iraq (all muslims), etc etc.
    • Tsuyoi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"I put this question to you if religion didn't exist would the world trade center still be standing,"

      And I'll respond with a question: Why did they attack symbols of our financial and military might on 9/11 and not religious icons?

      I'm not denying the role of religion in causing friction between people since it's obviously there. But the motivations of finance and power are very clearly visible under the surface. Religion is just a tool that is misused to keep people feeling like victims.
  • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The only thing that public polls demonstrate is the stupidity of the public.
    • rossmcd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah, like our public poll in the USA that chose Bush as the best leader of our country. Whoops!
  • databyss, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"
    In a suprising global poll, most believe that "tensions between Islam and the West arise from conflicts over political power and interests
    "

    Which are caused by religion and culture.
  • stealpick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Voting has no effect on or correlation with the truth.
  • burkay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It is good to see that there awake humans.
  • moracity, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5FINALLY! We have proof how ignorant most people in the world are. It also shows the crazy contradictions of the far left. On one hand, religion is the root of all evil. On the other hand, it's the fault of the United States that Muslims have been killing non-muslims for 3000 years. The best way to summarize world and liberal mentality:

    Religion is evil, except religion outside of the United States, especially Islam. Because, after all, Islam is the religion of peace. Of course, we all know Islam translates to "submission", not peace.

    Until the world submits to Islam, you and your non-Muslim children will be targets. But that's ok. Eventually, we will all be dead and everyone will be Muslim. By the time the world realizes that the U.S wasn't the big bad wolf after all, it'll be too late.
    • mihirsharma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0What a self-pitying little rant that is. Most people on digg dont have time for fundamentalists of any stripe. Unfortunately for you, that includes fundamentalist islamophobes.
      Oh, and 3000 years? Read a book, pal.
  • rossmcd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This seems pretty self-evident. We're just a little naive to it here in the USA, since recognizing it would imply that we are doing something offensive to a group of people, and we must accept *some* responsibility for the consequences of our actions. Never underestimate the power of denial, especially when the skids are greased by gov't and media.

    Seems very similar to the perceived reasons behind 9/11. Bin Laden actually said in an interview several years before the attack that he is against the USA's $ and military assistance to Israel. But after the attacks, the party line here was that they simply "hate freedom." No discussion of any other possible things that they might be reacting against.
  • AdmiralAdama, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4Recent poll just showed more than 80,000 Canadian muslims support terror against their own country. Not sure how this little fact affects this thread...
  • dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This reminds of the civil war. Slavery wasn't the reason we went to war. We were two complete diverse regions that didn't want to be controlled by the other. Much like today with Muslims and the West. Is religion the reason we're going to war? No, it's not. But it's a catalyst and a cause to get behind to attack someone completely different from yourself.
  • Saccharin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I thought they hate us for our freedoms? You know, cause we drink Coke and let women drive and stuff like that. You telling me that was all *****? Well I'll be damned.
  • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Religion and politics are inseparable in most middle eastern countries.
  • rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Why are there no, or very little, tensions from immigrants of Hindu, Sihk, Buddhist peoples?
    It seems that currently there is only one that seems to cause problems.
  • laterthandawn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1curse...replied to wrong spot.

    dig this ***** down...

    kisses.

  • zephc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Duh, it's both. Religion and culture are manipulated by those with power over conflicts of interests. The bulk of the people perpetrating it are doing it for religious reasons, because they've been told the west is, essentially, evil and corrupting, but they are being manipulated by those in power.
    Similarly, most in the West are being manipulated into thinking this is a war of people that 'hate our freedom' but those in power have their own motives.
  • surfmadpig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5ok people, it is simple:

    reasons for the tensions: political power, economic interests
    pretext for the tensions: cultural and religious differences

    there are certainly low-level fighters (literally or metaphorically) on each side who oppose the others because of religious differences, but there's political AND religious rhetoric that drove them to do so.
  • kaiser44, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Religion's come and go as society's find alternatives.the big 3 are intertwined with political ,moral and spiritual components.
    They are there to fill mans need, not god's.
    GOD HAS NO NEED FOR RELIGION, When anyone says they no the truth and tell you what that truth is, they are deceiving themselves because GOD reveals himself to those who seek, and those who seek can not fully comprehend.
  • umeshunni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4They do an opinion poll on the conflict between Islam and the west and they include only 1 islamic country (Indonesia) ?
  • NeoRicen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What a load of crap.
  • indulgently, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I might have missed something but isn't this an opinion poll. This isn't a research study into cause and effect. The results are simply a measure of opinion not fact and they don't reflect reality, they reflect perception. The results are therefore a good analysis of what people think, not what the actual reasons are for tension. I would agree with several posts above that any conflict is derived from power and religion and can't be boiled down into a simple analysis.

  • zombo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Where ever a large islamic population exists there will arise conflicts over political power and interests.
  • TechLaw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think any intelligent person can acknowledge that a conflict as large as the Middle East tensions cannot be summed up by one factor, that is like saying the Civil War was about slavery, or the Revolution was about taxes.
    • Skid32, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Exactly!

      ...but that does make you begin wondering about how many intelligent people have been studying this subject.
  •  

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