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Public at Last: Guantanamo SERE Standard Operating Procedure

zmag.org — "FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY" JTF GTMO SERE SOP 10 DECEMBER 2002 Finally declassified, no longer redacted, this document clearly specifies that the abusive interrogation techniques to be used at Guantamo [JTF GTMO] are based upon the military's Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape [SERE] program.

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  • sovietninja, on 10/13/2008, -18/+8I remember the SERE episode of The Unit. This is horrible.
    • Ryan32, on 10/14/2008, -2/+21lol. Your honestly using a fictional TV show as your knowledge base? seriously?

      I went through SERE, and it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be... Hell the worst part of SERE is the lack of food and cigarettes.
      • Nitesmoke, on 10/14/2008, -5/+17All military air crews go through SERE, I did as well, it sucked, but it was nothing like on TV and movies, GI Jane, anyone? I love that the lefties get their military knowledge from 24 and The Unit. Just like your friends in real life are nothing like Friends on TV, the military is nothing like those stupid shows you watch.
      • SpudgeBoy, on 10/14/2008, -11/+5Yeah, except that no lefties watch shows like 24. That show was designed to desensitize right wingers to being okay with torture. And it has worked pretty well.
      • Phaedryn, on 10/14/2008, -0/+12I served from 84 to 92. Army, LRSR...I attended SERE in 86, and I can say without a doubt, it was nowhere near as bad as the 49 days of Ranger school.

        If you get your "facts" from Hollywood, please do the world a favor and keep your mis-informed opinions to yourself.
      • slantyeyed, on 10/14/2008, -5/+1The Unit was based on "Inside Delta Force"
      • weeFred, on 10/14/2008, -0/+6The Unit is nothing like Inside Delta Force, In the book Haney goes over the selection process (which is mostly long marches, map reading and swimming), Training (What they did to train, who they learned from) and then a few operations in Beiruit/latin america/operation eagle claw. There's really nothing in The Unit from Inside Delta Force. It was just an opportunity for Haney to cash in, he's a co producer on the show.
      • Veriander, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1@SpueyBoy, only right-wingers watch 24? Right. And only Lefties play Grand Theft Auto.
    • flyguy3249, on 10/14/2008, -0/+6dugg for having to SERE too...

      Hollywood is Hollywood. Exaggeration is essential.
    • JAVandiver, on 10/14/2008, -1/+8Truly you are thick... All this document is authorizing is treatment already allowed to be used against U.S. servicemen. Do you think such strict and explicit limited techniques were used against U.S. servicemen who have been detained? Or ave you already forgotten the beheadings of Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker?
      • Nitesmoke, on 10/14/2008, -3/+4That's our point, many of us commenting have been through these techniques, and they are exaggerated on TV and the media. The real deal, not the ***** you see on TV or read about on liberal blogs. BUT I still think we should not water board, the intel we get is spotty at best, people will tell you whatever you want to hear when they are in pain and you have the power to stop it.
    • infantrygrunt, on 10/14/2008, -1/+5You're joking right?You are using a TV show as a reference for what SERE school is? I went through SERE back in 1983. The "torture" tactics amounted to about 10 seconds on a water board, getting slapped around and sleep deprivation. I went through more hazing in boot camp at FT Benning.
  • omegaant, on 10/13/2008, -8/+21Sorry, there are too many typos in this article to make it credible. For example, "DO" cross the line instead of do not cross the line, "shipping" instead of stripping... bad source, I fear...
    • phnx0221, on 10/13/2008, -10/+21I'd say it's credible. The source, zmag has never failed, this is a place where Michael Albert, Amy Goodman, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Jeremy Scahill write, just to name a few.

      Here is a google search link for the document. It's been picked up by numerous places, and in fact the site sourced in the article isn't even listed until the second pages of sources. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Guantanamo+SE ...

      From the article, regarding the bio of the author: "Stephen Soldz is a psychoanalyst, psychologist, public health researcher, and faculty member at the Boston Graduate School of Psychoanalysis. He maintains the Psychoanalysts for Peace and Justice web site and the Psyche, Science, and Society blog. He is a founder of the Coalition for an Ethical Psychology, one of the organizations leading the struggle to change American Psychological Association policy on participation in abusive interrogations."


      He did state that he hadn't corrected the typos yet, and had some problems with formatting in getting it on the article. Best bet would be to check it against the pdf.

      I see what you're saying, and checked just to make sure. Numerous other sources have picked run the story as well. This is something that isn't even that far off the spectrum, as psychologists and psychiatrists have come out against the techniques being used, bearing witness to their use, and bearing witness to the interrogation methods being drawn up in the first place.
      • fleischner, on 10/14/2008, -9/+8>I'd say it's credible ... this is a place where Michael Albert, Amy Goodman,
        >Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Jeremy Scahill write

        You don't even REALIZE how stupid you sound right now.
      • JAVandiver, on 10/14/2008, -9/+8Noam Chomstk as a credible source?! Amy Goodman?! Really! The list you have provided is a veritable who's who of liberal socialists, pacifists, and anarcho-syndicalists! There is no way that it is not biased and suspect!
      • lhbaker, on 10/14/2008, -8/+5Looks like a government quality memo to me, and I was a fed for years.
    • IMJGaltstill, on 10/14/2008, -1/+8Having been in the Navy, attended sere school, and being a communications petty officer with a top secret clearance, I have seen thousands of official documents and messages. This is not one of them.
    • bedouin, on 10/14/2008, -3/+3If this was scanned and then digitized with OCR software these are perfectly understandable errors.
    • Asianwaste, on 10/14/2008, -0/+3@ IMJGaltstill

      Same. This is not even what SERE is. However people undergoing the SERE training may experience a simulated interrogation, where THEY are on the receiving side. This may outline the tactics trainers may use on trainees. I have heard of the mock interrogation they go through during training.

      Then again, this doesn't even look like an SOP format. Look at the Official Use Only locations. It's supposed to be on EVERY PAGE on the footer and header.
      I've personally seen GTMO interrogations. And it was not done by no ***** Airforce guy.

      This is garbage.
  • MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/14/2008, -12/+12Torture Document...
    • RRJackson, on 10/14/2008, -2/+2Someone didn't read it. I've seen frat hazings that were worse than anything in that document.
    • infantrygrunt, on 10/14/2008, -0/+4Here's a newsflash for you. SERE is designed to give US military members a taste of what tactics will be used AGAINST THEM, should they become POW's. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with our interrogation techniques. Doug Hegdal, a US Navy prisoner at the Hanoi Hilton, was an istrumental force in designing the school. The school was patterened against torture and interrogation techniques used by the North Vietnamese. I went through SERE in 1983 after Ranger School. So you see, I know what I am talking about, you are projecting based on God only knows what.
  • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/14/2008, -11/+3They should have just released the original document, instead of photoshopping in bolded text. Now the whole thing looks fake.
  • str3ama, on 10/14/2008, -9/+22I'd like to see the presidential candidates speak up on this issue, whether they condone torture. I always felt that to truly be on the side of good, you should treat your 'enemies' much better then they treat you. If your enemy, whomever they be, torture our POW we should not return in kind, instead we should show humility and respect to the POW we have. By allowing yourself to be consumed by anger or to seek retribution you become worse then your enemy. Hate begets hate as they say, and personally regardless of Republican or Democrat I would like to see a president that strictly forbids it and is willingly to put their foot down when they see such clear cases of wrongdoing.

    It'd be very interesting to see Mccain's stance on this especially.
    • Nitesmoke, on 10/14/2008, -4/+11He has answered this question many times. He is firmly against torture. He was personally tortured, so he has a bit of insight on the subject. Google is a powerful tool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kj_sHEcnP4
      But of course, Diggers will call McCain a torturer, despite the evidence to the contrary, because he's a conservative, therefore he must be evil.
      • Turambar, on 10/14/2008, -6/+8well, he -did- vote for torture.
      • Styvo, on 10/14/2008, -6/+9Yeah, he says he is against torture... but look how he has voted in the past, eg. Guantanamo bay detainees rights.
      • kemp34, on 10/14/2008, -2/+10Did he not vote against banning water boarding?
      • Nitesmoke, on 10/14/2008, -5/+5See? It took less than 10 minutes.
      • Ryan32, on 10/14/2008, -3/+13Kind of like Obama saying he's "pro 2nd amendment" but everything he has ever voted for says the exact opposite.....

        Hypocrites.
      • Dweller99, on 10/14/2008, -5/+4"WASHINGTON: The Senate voted to ban waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods that have been used by the CIA against high-level terrorism suspects, setting up a confrontation with President George W. Bush, who has threatened to veto the bill."

        "Senator John McCain, the leading Republican presidential candidate and former prisoner of war who opposes harsh interrogation tactics, voted against the bill. McCain said that the ban would limit the CIA's ability to gather intelligence but that his vote was consistent with his firm stance against torture.

        "We always supported allowing the CIA to use extra measures," McCain said. "I believe waterboarding is illegal and should be banned."

        So he is against it, except when he is for it?
      • treehugger87, on 10/14/2008, -4/+7You would also think the McCain would be a strong supporter of veteran's benefits and health issues, but he's not:

        http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/McCain_s_Miserab ...
      • sealink, on 10/14/2008, -4/+4@ Ryan32

        So... you're all for crazies and criminals having guns, then?

        "I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions. " -- Obama

        "I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets. " -- Obama

      • Nitesmoke, on 10/14/2008, -2/+6@sealink
        You forgot one of Obama's gun opinions: "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Yep he's pro 2nd amendment for all those bitter people who own guns.
    • sealink, on 10/14/2008, -1/+3He said in the first debate something about "..so we never torture again." I'd like to think that he'd stick to something like that.
      • samcol, on 10/14/2008, -4/+3McCain claims to be anti-torture, but if you read the Military Commissions Act that he voted for it tells a much different story. He's as two faced as they come.
  • highlymodified, on 10/14/2008, -14/+14Disgusting. If America wishes to consider itself the greatest country in the world, it must hold itself to such a standard.

    The saddest part is this is the "official" version, and everyone knows it gets more intense in real life.
  • Eugenitor, on 10/14/2008, -14/+2Thanks, I can use this stuff in my daily life.
  • Jasuus, on 10/14/2008, -10/+1im so jaded this doesnt really effect me anymore.
  • richofsilence, on 10/14/2008, -5/+9Formatting looks credible, but even a draft wouldn't have that many typos and ***** ups. I see similar documents daily.

    Also, it's really not all that bad, I've done worse things to my siblings growing up, and have had worse done to me.
    • treehugger87, on 10/14/2008, -8/+2Do you really mean to claim that you have tortured and psychologically terrified your siblings and that they have done the same back to you? Sorry, but in my book that strips you of all credibility.
      • richofsilence, on 10/14/2008, -1/+8I punched, caused bleeding, bruises, smothered them with pillows, and the worst...


        MADE THEM PUNCH THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN FISTS! Now that's ***** up.
      • treehugger87, on 10/14/2008, -5/+1Did you take an individual or group who were completely depend ant on you for basic survival needs (e.g. food, water, hygiene), slap them, strip them naked, and force them into stress positions? We're not talking about friends here. We're talking about a one way relationship where the authority has the power and the detainee has nothing but a dependence on the authority. If so, what were the consequences to those who did not maintain the stress positions?

        Again, if you *did* do these things to other people and don't think it is wrong you have no credibility.
      • doctechnical, on 10/14/2008, -1/+4You're obviously a single child. My condolences.
      • richofsilence, on 10/14/2008, -2/+4doctechnical = my *****
      • treehugger87, on 10/14/2008, -2/+1Ah, a classic change of topic. You have no response, so you redirect the attention to the person you disagree with. Nice strategery.
    • doctechnical, on 10/14/2008, -2/+5Agreed. When I was a kid we called this "recess". No Purple Nurple? Indian Rope Burn? Not even an Atomic Wedgie?
      • treehugger87, on 10/14/2008, -5/+1You can't see the difference between "recess" pranks between equals and intentional brutality by the person whom you are wholly dependent on for your basic survival? If your victim didn't stand still for the indian sunburn what were the consequences? No food or water that day? 4 hours with your arms straight out to the side with rocks in your hand? Being put in isolation? Being hooded? Manhandled?
      • doctechnical, on 10/14/2008, -0/+3I know of fraternity hazing stunts that make everything you've said seem like a pleasant way to kill the time. Maybe somebody should tell you about the cookie sometime.

        Gosh, but war is heck.
    • Asianwaste, on 10/14/2008, -0/+3It's fake. It's not even an attempt to match SOP page formatting. SERE training also does not qualify you to be an interrogator.
  • Weed86, on 10/14/2008, -6/+8USA USA USA
  • WiretapStudios, on 10/14/2008, -10/+6I can't wait to get home and try some of these out on my girlfriend!
  • wiggles, on 10/14/2008, -7/+16I don't know. I know these interrogation techniques aren't right, but as I read this, it seems that nothing in there is really causing any real physical wounds or damage, only inflicting some psychological and physical stress on the victim/detainee/whatever. Compared to other techniques (genital electrocution, power tools to the cranium, removal of skin, immolation, disembowelment, etc.) this just doesn't seem that bad. If lives depended on the extraction of information from a subject, I think my conscience would be clear with the use of these techniques.
    • SpudgeBoy, on 10/14/2008, -10/+2Mother Russia waits for you comrade wiggles.
    • FryerJF, on 10/14/2008, -1/+6From the response of the previous comments I was expecting a detailed description of those same techniques you mention. Instead, it looks like a page out of the "Older Brother's Handbook" except the OBH doesn't include limits on time and circumstances under which you stop immediately.

      I didn't see anything that caused permanent or even lasting damage, only psychological stress and physical exertion. As you say, if it were used to save lives I don't have any problem with it. In fact, I wonder how people would feel if these techniques were used by trained police interrogators on prisoners that actually had a violent criminal record and the information might save other people from a crime.

      I think everyone has a scale at which they'd find this document's use acceptable. The problem is enforcing one scale for all people and situations.
  • notque, on 10/14/2008, -9/+9Important document that deserves mass attention.
  • doctechnical, on 10/14/2008, -7/+1Somehow I was epecting the PDF to be more that 242 bytes.

    Edit: Nevermind, it was my "open PDF" extension trying to be helpful.
  • Ryan32, on 10/14/2008, -4/+20Did any of you actually read the document? None of these procedures are even remotely as bad as your painting them to be. Whether or not these people should actually be imprisoned in the first place is a solid argument, but none of these interrogation techniques are beyond what I believe to be "fair practice" for anyone who is legitimately detained.

    SERE was a lot more difficult than the ***** in that document, and I still thought it was a joke. The hardest time people have with it is not eating, and not having cigarettes.
    • onux16, on 10/14/2008, -2/+3or poon

      ...roughest two weeks of my life.
    • MrKrinkleDude, on 10/14/2008, -1/+5Ditto that.

      The article sounds like a cake walk compared to the actual SERE course.
      • onux16, on 10/14/2008, -1/+3speaking of cake... driest crap I ever ate, yet somehow still delicious.
      • richofsilence, on 10/14/2008, -0/+4Well I took a SERE CBT before going to theater! :P
      • burbankmarc, on 10/14/2008, -0/+2@richofsilence

        USAF FTW!

        but a couple of my buddies tried becoming SERE instructors, they both failed, the course sounded a little rough.
      • onux16, on 10/14/2008, -0/+2USAF ftw? Seriously?

        "If you've got that Air Force pride, stomp your left and drag your right." Pensacola got a whole lot funnier when I heard that.
      • beaunewcomb, on 10/14/2008, -1/+2lol I went through SERE! I heard most captives are actually subjected to much less in real life... we only hear about the crazy ***** though.
      • richofsilence, on 10/15/2008, -0/+1I actually took it before I came over as a contractor. No more military for me! Did Army and AF before this, though.
  • Spire3660, on 10/14/2008, -13/+1The difference between using this on troops and using it on prisoners is that, THE TROOPS VOLUNTEERED. This kind of behavior is HIGHLY illegal, and immoral. You DO NOT physically interrogate, period. You should never ever be allowed to strike unprovoked at a person who IS NOT CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME! WTF.

    As an adult I find myself in crisis. Growing up we are taught America is the light of the world, the true bastion of freedom and justice. IT is very disheartening to know everything they taught us in school was a lie.
    • onux16, on 10/14/2008, -1/+4I've got some things to say, and this goes to everybody who shares your sentiments:
      1. [rewording your sentence] "Our fighters volunteered; the people in our custody are our prisoners." That train of thought applies to both sides, theirs and ours. You're only making yourself look like an ignorant douche bag.

      2. Quit being a pansy and accept reality. You may have been brought up believing America is the light of the world, but I'm sure you also believed a guy in red brought you presents through your chimney and a white bunny hid colored eggs in your backyard.

      3. "Freedom has a flavor the protected shall never know"; clearly, you have never served in the military, or you would better understand why we interrogate and the purpose it serves.
      • Spire3660, on 10/14/2008, -2/+0NO it is NEVER ok to beat an innocent man period! NEVER! WHat if the person you beat is innocent, do you jsut say oops? does he get to beat you now? Wow you are barbaric.
    • PennFarmer, on 10/14/2008, -0/+3In addition to Onux's excellent comment, I would only like to add that the people at Gitmo are, in the main, people that we caught fighting against our soldiers. They are prisoners of war. It's not like we just picked a random village, grabbed all of the guys, and started bitch-slapping them.

      "IS NOT CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME"

      -yeah, about that. I'm not actually sure what crime we would convict them of since they were captured overseas on soil that the US does not have jurisprudence over. This is a military engagement and military policy. Quit treating it like a civil matter.
      • Spire3660, on 10/14/2008, -1/+0Riiiight becasue its bad to give people their day in court.....
      • PennFarmer, on 10/14/2008, -0/+1What court? Would you rather we turn them back over to their country of origin? I am sure they are better off with us.

        They also will get their day in court. A military tribunal, as allowed for and regulated in the military code of conduct concerning POWs. I never said don't send them to court. What I said was that the US does not have jurisprudence over them. They are the military's until the military has had a tribunal and then they follow from there. Most likely home.
  • tech10171968, on 10/14/2008, -2/+17Okay, this is interesting. The "SERE" school, as outlined in the article, the the U.S. Navy's "Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape" course. This is a course taken by pilots and other aircrew members to prepare them for the possibility of being shot down over enemy territory and potentially being captured. In this course the students are placed in a wilderness environment, "captured", and "interrogated" by the instructors by using the very same techniques outlined in the article.

    Basically, the article is saying that the detainees at Guantanamo bay were/are being subjected to the very same techniques used on the USA's own pilots in SERE school. So why isn't the Red Cross trying to rescue U.S. pilots from their own training?
    • Ryan32, on 10/14/2008, -0/+9It's not just pilots... Any ground based units like Recon/SEALs/Rangers/Special Forces all go through SERE because of the nature of the job..... And it's not same level as aircrew.
    • cJw314, on 10/14/2008, -4/+6Probably because the article is disinformation.
    • onux16, on 10/14/2008, -5/+2The Red Cross isn't a government or military organization. They can't "rescue" someone, whether it's in a training environment or real-life scenario. Their mission in this case is to ensure you are getting treatment to injuries and to notify your kin of your safety.
  • Zihuatanejo, on 10/14/2008, -1/+14What I see here is an attempt to establish control over a target without doing any permanent damage or inflicting any amount of pain that I would consider cruel or unusual.

    How effective these techniques are or whether the theoretical safeguards were actually imposed remains to be seen. There is obviously potential for abuse if those monitoring the interrogation look the other way.
  • stanlanman, on 10/14/2008, -5/+6I don't see anything in here about head removal and orange jumpsuits... Is this the correct version of the document?
  • antiLIBERAL1, on 10/14/2008, -4/+11I find these "torture procedures" very alarming where are all the bamboo shoots under their fingernails or disfiguring their faces with rusted knives? I think we dont do enough to those bastards for 3000 good reasons just off the top of my head.
    • cJw314, on 10/14/2008, -4/+5-.-
    • ElSnuggles, on 10/14/2008, -2/+1You mean the goat herders we locked up because their neighbors said they were terrorists or the 17 members of a Chinese minority that we admitted 3 years ago were not unlawful combatants, but we still hold there?

      The thing people like you so easily miss "antiliberal" is there is an ocean of difference between "someone we think is a threat" and "someone that is a threat". That is what the court system is for, to prove that somebody is guilty. If we had clear cut evidence that these men were terrorists, we would have tried them already. The fact that we haven't leads me to believe that too much of our "secret evidence" is completely unreliable.
      • Phaedryn, on 10/14/2008, -0/+2"If we had clear cut evidence that these men were terrorists, we would have tried them already. The fact that we haven't leads me to believe that too much of our "secret evidence" is completely unreliable. "

        "That is what the court system is for, to prove that somebody is guilty."

        Or maybe it's because this is NOT a criminal issue? They were not detained for violating a criminal statute? In fact it has absolutely nothing to do with our legal system at all?

        What part of "enemy combatant" do you think is derived from the penal code?

        Please, show me which section of USC this comes from? Please tell me which prosecutors from DoJ are on these cases? Or for that matter where the DoJ is involved at all?

        No?

        Then why do you insist on evidentiary proceedings based on US Jurist Prudence to be applied?

        You have a major disconnect with reality.
  • blackeagle613, on 10/14/2008, -2/+16I am sure I will be dugg down for this...
    but honestly nothing in here really seems bad.. none of this really seems like torture...just interrogation
    • ReinMasamuri, on 10/14/2008, -1/+1The author of this wildly partisan piece would beg to differ:
      One of the most important documents of the _U.S. TORTURE PROGRAM_ has just become publicly available for the first time.
      Selective cognition I guess :P
  • PennFarmer, on 10/14/2008, -2/+22ZOMG!!! DID YOU SEE WHAT THEY ARE DOING?!?!?!?

    FTA: (slapping the face from 12-14 inches away) To ensure this distance is not exceeded and to preclude any tendency to wind up or uppercut, the slap will be initiated with the slap hand contacting the detainee's body on the top of the shoulder. The target area is slightly below the cheekbone, away from the eyes and ears. Extreme care must be taken not to strike the lower jaw. Slaps aimed at the ears, mouth, nose eyes or throat are prohibited.

    Oh, wait. That isn't really torture at all. Maybe now people will settle down. Stop being irrational.
    • cJw314, on 10/14/2008, -8/+2LOL.

      How many times has it been said, "Yeah, the regulation says to do it this way. Of course, that's not how we *actually* do it..."
    • PennFarmer, on 10/14/2008, -3/+5True enough, but any amount of power can be abused. The significance I see in this is that the official and officially condoned method is to be humane as far as possible with safeguards in place. Individuals can always go wrong.

      On the other hand, causing someone embarrassment and shame is much more effective than beating them senseless. The first causes a desire to feel respected and respectable again. The second causes a desire to be defiant and think homicidal thoughts.
  • dizilbdog, on 10/14/2008, -10/+3Let me pose this question. If Bush is a war criminal for Guantanamo, which I think he is for toruture. If the next president doesn't end Guantanamo Bay the day he is president or that week is he now considered a War Criminal as well???
    • ReinMasamuri, on 10/14/2008, -0/+1He's not a war criminal. He may be immoral by using "torture" but to be a war criminal you have to actually break some kind of treaty. In this case most people think of the Geneva Convention, which these people aren't eligible for since they've thrown out the rules of engagement that need to be followed to be eligible for it.
  • slantyeyed, on 10/14/2008, -8/+1someone else can read it and tell me what it says
  • thinkfirst87, on 10/14/2008, -7/+4Buried. Nothing new.
  • Firefox52, on 10/14/2008, -3/+11This is exactly the interrogation techniques that I experienced in SERE. First of all, the interrogation is not that bad, the hunger was worse that any of this. Secondly, if this what they are using as a basis for Guantanamo techniques, it's not torture and it is completely within the POW treatment procedures outlined in the Geneva Convention. Everyone needs to calm down and stop trying to give our POWs more rights than they deserve.
  • davidkeithjones, on 10/14/2008, -1/+20Pretty much the same as AOL customer retention training.
  • Lucas123, on 10/14/2008, -2/+10You know of course that thousands of our military personnel go through SERE training every year. I'm not condoning using the same techniques on enemy combatants, but people need to get realistic about how "horrible" these techniques are. It's mostly about scaring you, not actually hurting someone.

    SERE training takes place at four levels:

    Level A: Entry level training. These are the Code of Conduct mandatory classes taken by all at induction (recruit training and OCS). All service personnel get this basic training annually.

    Level B: For those operating or expected to operate forward of the division rear boundary and up to the forward line of own troops (FLOT). Normally limited to aircrew of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. Level B focuses on survival and evasion, with resistance in terms of initial capture. Because of reports of captured British sailors being broken easily as a result of lack of resistance training, the U.S. Air Force now requires all aircrew to receive Level B SERE training.[citation needed] By 2008 the effectiveness of this aspect of air force training was being questioned by some, now consisting as it does, they allege, of "an online course which, with reading, videos and quizzes, takes 3–4 hours to complete."

    Level C: For troops at a high risk of capture and whose position, rank or seniority make them vulnerable to greater than average exploitation efforts by any captor. Level C focuses on resistance in terms of prison camps and serious military interrogation.

    Level D: For aircrews, but more recently phased out; what would have been SERE-D students in future undergo SERE-C training at Fairchild.
  • adodson, on 10/14/2008, -6/+0KAFFEE
    Corporal, would you turn to the page in this book that says where the enlisted men's mess hall is?

    HOWARD
    Lt. Kaffee, that's not in the book, sir.

    KAFFEE
    I don't understand, how did you know where the enlisted men's mess hall was if it's not in this book?
  • infodoc1, on 10/14/2008, -6/+2It seems like a lot of people are focusing on the techniques but ignoring the context... administering beatings to a frightened hostage is not the same as horsing around with your buddies.
  • 4me2see, on 10/14/2008, -5/+0 the war is not BUSH the war criminal the war criminal is the U S A the ones BUSH said we should give to him all the young, the money he wants. you give your all then he turns all over to privet co. you have no say so in none of it war is hell. nothing he does is for U S A on 9/10/ 01 the government had no money for tax cut unless he gave away the life of all the U S A when they turn 62, become disabled like those coming home like U S ARMY>MARINES
    • ReinMasamuri, on 10/14/2008, -0/+1I don't think you actually knew what you were trying to say, never mind anybody else trying to figure out what you were trying to say.
    • infantrygrunt, on 10/14/2008, -0/+1What in the world are you trying to say? Is English a foreign language to you? We can't even figure out what your point is because we can't even understand what you are trying to say.
  • IMJGaltstill, on 10/14/2008, -0/+8I have seen hundreds of s.o.p. s and was a communications petty officer in the navy. This is NOT REAL
    • Asianwaste, on 10/14/2008, -0/+4Exactly. Since when does SERE training qualify you to be an interrogator? The US has a ton of outlets to get very qualified interrogators. I'd imagine applying SERE school training techniques would be the last place they'd look.
  • unfairunbalance, on 10/14/2008, -2/+1Escaped from, Harold and Kumar
  • infantrygrunt, on 10/14/2008, -4/+3I went back and re-read this "Draft". The more I read it the more fabricated it looks to me. Just like Rather's "Memogate"

    Show's over, move along folks, nothing to see here.
  • digdug135, on 10/14/2008, -0/+2Useful tips. One insult slap is enough... Two are ineffective. A shoulder slap is also irratating.
  • VitriolAndAngst, on 10/14/2008, -2/+1Yeah, confess to something lesser to cover up worse,... this is just what was already there for years.
    No, this is not the actual NEW Policy that came from Bush and Cheney. Nor does it explain floating cruise ships used as gulags and hiring other countries to torture our prisoners.

    You don't need to circumvent the Constitution and the US courts unless you want to circumvent the Constitution. Otherwise why even have detention in GitMO?
    • injest, on 10/14/2008, -0/+1“You don't need to circumvent the Constitution and the US courts unless you want to circumvent the Constitution. Otherwise why even have detention in GitMO?”

      Were the POWs at Gitmo captured in the USA or on battlefields in Afghanistan /Iraq?
      Were they captured by our police force or by the military?

      Can you state a case where POWs were kept in a civilian prison?

      Since they were captured by our military, why would they be given Constitution rights?
      Why would they be in our civilian prison? Do you want to disregard the GC3 and GC4?

      There in our military prison and subject to UCMJ (just like our own military personnel) and the GC3 and GC4.

      BTW nothing in this bogus doc even comes close to torture. As many have already pointed out, our own boot camps are tougher than this.

      You should try “learn to love your MK 5 mask day (Navy)” AKA the gas chamber, that could honestly be called torture.
      • VitriolAndAngst, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1Our Constitution applies to all people. Only the Fascists in the Bush administration have narrowed this understanding. The inalienable rights are assumed to be there, and government can only do certain things as outlined in the Constitution. It isn't this other way around the BushCo folks have twisted it; "You have no rights until you can prove without a doubt that you deserve them."

        The captured POWs are NOT getting the treatment of actual POWs. The government has wiggled around with this and is treating them as "Enemy Non-Combatants." A new classification that does not give them the Geneva rights or Constitutional rights -- so like Dick Cheney, they ignore both. Either they are arrested or they are POWs. Which is it? I don't want to disregard anything -- but the President sure does.

        "Since they were captured by our military, why would they be given Constitution rights?
        Why would they be in our civilian prison? Do you want to disregard the GC3 and GC4?
        "
        >> That's kind of nuts. It doesn't matter who captures you. If the military captures you -- you are still a citizen. The courts haven't even had a chance to rule on whether there is evidence that these people were combatants.

        GitMo is not Afghanistan -- it's sole purpose is as a no-man's land. Cuba has never recognized it, nor accepted the "rent" our government pays to be there (OK, they cashed one check). So it isn't even legal in the first place.

        >> We've proven the Bush administration lied about torture, about the connection of Iraq to 9/11 and about everything else we've gotten to the bottom of. This "trust us" routine is getting old. Go read the NEW torture document that shows they signed off on it -- this document proves nothing, of course because you are looking at the wrong document.
  • injest, on 10/14/2008, -0/+8“phnx0221
    I'd say it's credible.

    “He did state that he hadn't corrected the typos yet, and had some problems with formatting in getting it on the article. Best bet would be to check it against the pdf.”

    I did check it against the PDF, the “typos” and formatting problems are in the PDF
    BTW did you fall for the “Lovenstein Institute” hoax?
    IVAW Jesse MacBeth?
    CBS 60 Min “memogate” of 2004?

    Sorry this is a Bogus doc.

    A Navy doc that sets up rules and procedures would not be called
    JTF GTMO “SERE” Interrogation Standard Operating Procedure.
    Standard Operating Procedure or SOP is slang, not an official term.

    It would be titled “OpNav xxxx-x/x”
    Under command of COMNAVAIRPAC and executed by FASOTRAGRUPAC for level C
    BTW the interrogation part is done at Warner springs CA, not Brunswick, Maine.


    INIERROGATORS should be spelled INTERROGATORS
    MADATORY should be spelled MANDATORY
    PROHIBIIED should be spelled PROHIBITED


    Another problem for this bogus doc.
    “Walling is to be used by those interrogators designated in writing by the ICE CHIEF.”
    This bogus doc “claims” to be from 2002
    ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement as part of the DHS didn’t exist till March 1, 2003. Prior to that, ICE was known as INS

    More problems, USAF rank format, WTF O

    TED K. MOSS
    LtCol, USAF
    Lieutenant colonel (05)

    In the Army Lieutenant colonel is abbreviated LTC
    In the Airforce Lieutenant colonel is abbreviated “LT Col” (Note the space tween T and C)
    In the USMC Lieutenant colonel is abbreviated LtCol
    In the Navy (05) is a Commander and is abbreviated CDR
    Notice TED K. MOSS LtCol, USAF has no space tween T and C.

    Seriously you would have to be one gullible naive dumb $hit to believe this doc is real.
  • dizilbdog, on 10/14/2008, -1/+2I see so if Barack Obama is president and still continues Guantanamo Bay he won't be know of torture he will just forget about it.
  • heystoopid, on 10/14/2008, -2/+1Torture is torture and no fancy words will ever change it from what it is .
  • jkgm, on 10/16/2008, -0/+1America! F--- yeah! Coming again to save [...] day!
  •  

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