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227 Comments
- gvoakes, on 11/14/2009, -6/+47Waterboarded 183 times? That guy is hardcore.
- headhot, on 11/14/2009, -6/+47I would be easier if we didnt break the law when we detained him.
- Crimeodial, on 11/14/2009, -1/+41We bother with a trial because we are a nation of laws.It's part of what we stand for and part of what we are supposed to be defending.
- IgorUnchained, on 11/14/2009, -10/+49Yep...surprise! Forced/coerced confessions arent admissible in court. The people in charge knew that all along.
How many other "terrorists" are being held without due process, without lawyers, and who cant be prosecuted for their goat herding...er, I mean "terrorism" because their confessions were a result of "harsh interrogation techniques"?
Also...
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.h ...
The FBI's own website doesnt charge Osama with 9-11. Why is that?
can they prosecute him for something they havent had the proof to even CHARGE him for in 8 years?
If JUSTICE is what we are looking for, we sure are going about it in a ridiculous way. Even the commenters are ready to kill these people without anything but a supposed confession.
THIS is what a false confession (even of the most brutal murder of beautiful innocence) looks like.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/28/ramsey.arrest/
You dont get locked up for confessing to a crime. - MWeather, on 11/14/2009, -6/+36That's because you don't believe in the principles this nation was founded on.
- digghasnoethics, on 11/14/2009, -6/+33There are a number of basic problems:
1) Anything gained after March 2003 is virtually worthless, since its all tainted. None of it should be admitted, and any that is weakens the US position in the rest of the world.
2) Finding a workable and unbiased jury is going to be difficult, and any bias will be widely reported in the arab world, casting the whole lot into a show trial.
3) He can, and probably will, bring up Dubya/Cheney and the signing off on torture. He may even be able to bring a case against them - which is what should have happened anyway.
I'm sure the far right zealots will shout and scream that Obama is to blame for giving him a trial, but in reality the hole the US is in is a direct result of Cheney et al ignoring the representations that were made regards state-sponsored torture. Its them that need to be held up for censure when this ends up a disaster; since its them that created it.
In reality the only better solution Obama would now have is to pass prosecution over to the International Criminal Court - but he won't do that because there are quite a few yanks he'd have to pass over too.
This is a slow acting car crash that started in 2003. - inactive, on 11/14/2009, -1/+26What evidence do we have on this guy again? Is it just the torture-induced confession? If I was water boarded 183 times then I'd confess to sinking the Titanic and being Jesus.
The FBI has admitted they don't even have any hard evidence connecting Osama Bin Laden to the attacks, so it would be interesting to know what hard evidence they have on this guy. - lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -9/+34That doesn't mean we get to treat him as a sub-human.
- borez, on 11/14/2009, -1/+23I don't think that he had a choice in the matter.
- FeargusMcDuff, on 11/14/2009, -5/+27I'm not expert on America but doesn't the constitution mention something somewhere about fair trials?
- FeargusMcDuff, on 11/14/2009, -3/+24You say 'OUR Constitution' like you are proud of it (don't blame you)
Why therefore don't you trust the justice system set out by it then? - headhot, on 11/14/2009, -1/+22Um any real court on the planet would rule that water boarding is torture. Torture is illegal, against any one.
- pe5t1lence, on 11/14/2009, -4/+23QFA "These terrorists planned and executed the mass murder of thousands of innocent Americans," Senator John Cornyn of Texas said Friday. "Treating them like common criminals is unconscionable."
Completely backwards. Trying him in a military court would give credence to him as a military operative. Try him as a common man and take away his power, give him life in prison and take away his martyrdom. - lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -5/+23"i honestly dont care if they attach electrodes to his balls and pass high voltage into them."
And there starts the slippery slope. If it's okay to torture this one person, why isn't it okay to torture you or someone you know? - Rndm_Tngnt, on 11/14/2009, -1/+19Also holding people without charging them with a crime is also against the law. This one's right off the top of my head, too.
- j0phus, on 11/14/2009, -11/+28A greater political miscalculation than ignoring the memo about flying planes into new york skyscrapers in august of 2001 which has lead to over 1 million dead people?
I know you are going to bitch about the math, but I'm counting all those people we've killed in the middle east as retribution too. I'm sure since most of them are muslim they don't count in your eyes.
But could it be a bigger political disaster than that? - spriggig, on 11/14/2009, -1/+18If you think IgorUnchained is defending Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, you are wrong. Igor is defending JUSTICE.
Our justice system fails so often because citizens don't know their rights and their duty:
http://fija.org/ - Zaetha, on 11/14/2009, -7/+24Ok, guys. From this line on, no retarded comments.
________________________________________________________________
And yes, my comment above was retarded too. - sugarazor, on 11/14/2009, -0/+16Pretty much the smartest comment I've read in this entire debate. If we make an exception because KSM is "too evil," then it negates the great system that's been in place for 233 years. Everyone - even those who plan something as horrific and tragic as 9/11 - gets a fair trial in the United States... that's what makes us better than who we are fighting.
- inactive, on 11/14/2009, -1/+15Then I'm glad you're not a judge, mate. What witnesses and '*****' are you referring to?
- digggroupie, on 11/14/2009, -10/+24killed 3000. that guy is mass murderer
- lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -2/+16Why, because we believe in fair trials? If so, let them laugh.
- rotundo, on 11/14/2009, -2/+16You sound just like the vigilante idiots that spawn terrorism in the first place. People like you can be talked into committing things like 9/11 because you don't care to understand anything deeply. You're bored by due process, and probably many of the things that separate the US from a bunch of barbarians.
I want this guy to be executed. But I want it to be done through legitimate fact finding and a fair trial. Anything else is *****. - Crimeodial, on 11/14/2009, -3/+16They're going to be in jail cells. They won't pose a risk to anyone besides their guards. They will be isolated, the NYPD has held terrorists before, why do you doubt them now?
- FeargusMcDuff, on 11/14/2009, -1/+14What do the citizens of Afghanistan and Pakistan have to do with 9/11? You do know that the whole thing was planned by about 20 people, right?
- sugarazor, on 11/14/2009, -6/+18Because deep-down, through all the chest-thumping bravado, people on the right are cowards. The Bush Administration and the culture it spawned is undeniable proof that people in that mindset will sell out every last one of their freedoms and everything that makes this country great for the illusion of safety and security.
- lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -0/+12Waterboarding isn't a splash fight down at the ol' swimmin' hole. It's simulated drowning.
I've come up under a raft in a pool and panicked. Drowning is one of the worst ways to die. - infinitus64, on 11/14/2009, -0/+12we have laws here buddy that we have to obey. including Habeas corpus. "You (shall) have the body[1]) is a legal action, or writ, through which a person can seek relief from their unlawful detention or that of another person. It protects individuals from harming themselves or from being harmed by the judicial system." and The Geneva convention which contains provisions That cover armed forces on land and at sea, prisoners of war, and civilians. And all of them have now been accepted by virtually every State in the world. The gitmo and bagram are convered under Article 4. Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.They are Pow so they have the rights to defend themselves and waterboarding is torture and i dare you to have it done coming out thinking otherwise.
- dosware, on 11/14/2009, -0/+12"In fact, he killed no one. The hijackers did."
Unrelated to 9/11, he did (allegedly) confess to personally beheading Daniel Pearl. - mabsark, on 11/14/2009, -7/+18And how has that got anything to do with Obama? Is Obama in the jury?
Since we are talking about irrelevant *****, Glen Beck definitely did rape and kill a young smurfette in 1991. - broke186, on 11/14/2009, -0/+11I'm sure plenty of lawyers will jump at the chance to defend him to put their name on this high profile case.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 11/14/2009, -4/+15Relevance: you are doing it wrong.
- lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -1/+11"In fact, he killed no one. The hijackers did."
That's really splitting hairs. If you hire someone to kill someone else, you're still responsible for the death. - sugarazor, on 11/14/2009, -0/+10You let me know when the CEO of an insurance company is facing the death penalty, and you might have a point.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 11/14/2009, -4/+14This isn't about them. It's about us.
- lolwatermelon, on 11/14/2009, -1/+11A couple of missiles from a Predator would be about $200,000, plus the cost of the drone and fuel. Oh, and also the loss of rights for every single american.
If you're okay with those costs, go ahead. - rotundo, on 11/14/2009, -1/+11Hey Senator John Cornyn of Texas, where were you during the Timothy McVeigh trial?
I'm glad he was executed and I'll be glad when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is executed. But the idea that this is somehow beyond the responsibility of the US justice system is an insult to one of the finest justice systems in the world. - HeizeusX, on 11/14/2009, -5/+143,000 isn't really THAT many, in the grand scheme of things.
Now, 3,000,000,000? That's gettin' 'er done. - rotundo, on 11/14/2009, -1/+10I think you've really nailed it.
Although I think it will be cast as a show trial in parts of the world no matter what, so I'm not particularly worried about that as long as I believe it's been done properly.
An international criminal court might have been a good idea. - IgorUnchained, on 11/14/2009, -8/+17We would say that IN AMERICA a confession isnt enough to prosecute. Know the law?
- j0phus, on 11/14/2009, -0/+9You are pretending like we don't detain cab drivers who are only guilty of being male and in the wrong place. You wouldn't want to defend a genuinely innocent person who has been tortured and is facing ***** murder? Are you afraid of what people would think of you because they are judgmental pricks who have opinions before the facts?
I want to point out that you said "them" and I am talking about all of the people sent up to NY and not KSM specifically. We do need to try him publicly though - just so it sheds light on the fact that we tortured him hundreds of times. It will likely end up with war criminal charges for other people who need to be in prison too. - sugarazor, on 11/14/2009, -3/+12Exactly, this guy is a thug, nothing more. Why treat him like a supervillain? He's not that special.
- PointGiven, on 11/14/2009, -0/+9Because of his intense stare.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 11/14/2009, -3/+11The Constitution's Bill of Rights is a set of limits placed on the government. The rights enumerated therein are inherent in all people (you may remember a previous document mentioning certain inalienable rights). The Constitution does not play favorites with citizens. Everyone, no matter how heinous, has the right to a fair trial (which is why the venue will undoubtedly be changed from New York).
- perfunction, on 11/14/2009, -2/+10So it took two years to catch him and another seven to start to bring him to trial? At least we've made better progress at Ground Zero...oh wait.
- JoEBlack982, on 11/14/2009, -3/+11Pussy. So you don't believe in our judicial system? How un-American!
- bklny, on 11/14/2009, -4/+12Where’s Johnny Cochran when you need him? If the plane don’t fit you must acquit! j/k
but I am happy that we are returning back to the rule of law the founders can stop spinning in there graves - mabsark, on 11/14/2009, -3/+11The world has been laughing at you for the last 10 years. This incident has nothing to with it.
- borez, on 11/14/2009, -13/+21"Mohammed's 2002 statement to al-Jazeera in which he took credit for the attack"
He took credit for it... how much more evidence do you need? What are they going to say in defence of that... he was just messing about, he didn't really mean it? - JigoroKano, on 11/14/2009, -1/+9So if we import slaves, then slavery is legal in the U.S. because they aren't citizens?
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