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Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport

news.yahoo.com — When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until after he'd finished his prayers in about 2 minutes, he said. -Freedom of religion has it's limits. This is beyond that limit.

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  • drachemorder, on 04/18/2008, -34/+236There's no reason at all someone can't pray from their seat. Do people like this think God appreciates them holding up the flight? Didn't the Bible have something to say about people who do their devotions in front of men to get attention? As I recall, it did not look too kindly upon that sort of behavior.
    • Niightwitch, on 04/18/2008, -7/+58I think that was in the New Testament....doesn't apply here.
      • flip2trip, on 04/18/2008, -34/+4New Testament or not, it still applies. Sorta like when people say that the Ten Commandments don't apply to them because they don't believe in God. God doesn't change what is required of people whether they believe in Him or not.
        • Topkill, on 04/18/2008, -4/+14So you're saying that everyone must follow the ten commandments?!?! Please tell me more so that I may put an to my heathenistic ways!
          • flip2trip, on 04/19/2008, -11/+1I'm not saying that at all, and if you had read what I wrote you notice I didn't put that was my opinion, it's what is taught in the Bible, don't get mad at me if those words convict you.
          • digitalpencil, on 04/19/2008, -1/+7^^ You are still saying that the Ten Commandments apply to everyone.. they don't. Whilst i'll admit there are certain tenets whereby a decent person should live their life, everyone's concept of these tenets should be left in their own hands.
          • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -1/+2Yeah, even though I don't believe in God, I should still follow the commandments, including the one that says I shall worship no god other than the one true God... oh, wait...
        • Akaji, on 04/18/2008, -2/+14He's a Jew, moron. I hope you aren't so ignorant as to not know what that means regarding his opinion of the New Testament.
          • flip2trip, on 04/19/2008, -6/+2If you had read my statement you would understand what I was saying, according to the Bible people's opinion doesn't matter when it comes to the word of God. But I don't expect you to understand because obviously you must be 11 years old calling people that you don't know morons. I'll just chalk that up to your ignorance.
          • digitalpencil, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2^^ Can't believe i'm replying to both of these.. he called you a moron cause you're acting like one and you demeaning his intelligence by suggesting he is 11 is equally rude. Regardless of how you term it, you are still saying that scripture from the New Testament is applicable to Jews who only recognize the Torah as the word of God.
          • phickler, on 04/19/2008, -3/+7Attn: flip2trip
            Your "God" isn't real.
        • peligro18, on 04/18/2008, -6/+1yeah...my god is cooler than yours...mine let me do whatever i want as long i dont do bad to the others...and by that i mean treat them the way they want as long as is in my rule of "normal" behaviour... if u dont like what is happening u can kick the hell out of them...is not fair that u keep a bad karma inside, its better to handle thing there
          • flip2trip, on 04/19/2008, -5/+1I cannot tell what point you were trying to make from your convoluted sentence structure. Not to mention your thought processes.
          • Madrox17, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3A religious nut mocking someone else's thought processes. Oooooh that's rich.

            Oh, and I'm pretty sure that "Not to mention your thought processes." is in fact a convoluted sentence structure.

            Ass.
      • Boondoggle, on 04/18/2008, -0/+16There is PLENTY in the Old Testament to recommend not making a public nuisance of yourself.
      • drachemorder, on 04/19/2008, -3/+6Might not be in the Jewish scriptures explicitly, but I'm pretty sure the basic principle still applies. (Where do you think Jesus got the idea, after all?)
      • artliquide, on 04/19/2008, -0/+8Am I the only one who thought the article was going to be about religious oppression (" Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport"). Yet, the reason the guy was left behind was because he wasn't following flight rules, not for the simple fact that he was praying.

        I'm thinking someone was trying to get a rise out of us.
      • davidlow, on 04/19/2008, -0/+5Even the Orthodox Jews make allowances for safety.
    • Buelldozer, on 04/18/2008, -35/+7Why do you ASSume that this was a Christian?
      • Drahkar, on 04/18/2008, -2/+9The Article specifically says that he's Jewish.
    • DevilInPgh, on 04/18/2008, -3/+27Jews stand up to pray. However, yeah, he should have waited until the plane took off.
      • Akaji, on 04/18/2008, -1/+7That isn't always true.
      • SanTe, on 04/19/2008, -3/+18No, he should have done it at the damn gate before boarding the plane.
    • GuitaristTom, on 04/18/2008, -16/+2Buelldozer
      Uh, I think you're forgetting a large group of people who use the Bible. So why don't you RTFA?
    • GuitaristTom, on 04/18/2008, -20/+2Buelldozer
      Uh, I think you're forgetting a large group of people who use the Bible. So why don't you just RTFA?
    • mlostracco, on 04/18/2008, -12/+47God will torture you in hell unless you flatter him at very specific times of the day, no exceptions.
      • Akaji, on 04/18/2008, -12/+5Yay ignorance! Most Jews don't hold these sorts of beliefs in the afterlife, believing rather that all people will end up in Sheol.
        • mlostracco, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12I was speaking about prayer and devout religious practise in general terms.
      • Obzerva, on 04/18/2008, -5/+30Is it just me or does God seem to be a big egotistical dick...what with all the praying to him and all...does he have self-esteem issues?
        • julianrod, on 04/19/2008, -1/+13Uh, yeah, he says so... "for I am a jealous God"
          Exodus 20
        • liquidpele, on 04/19/2008, -4/+6No. Humans are big egotistical dicks. So when we imagine God, we envision him as something we already understand.
          It's funny, you would think people that believe in invisible beings could have a decent imagination and imagine a kinder more sane God. But I've found that people with imagination actually use it more logically, that it's a sign of higher thinking. It's the people that don't have imagination, that can't think for themselves, and believe what others tell them that you have to watch out for.
      • Kno1st, on 04/18/2008, -1/+2your comment is great and Akaji's comment shows why people love to kill each other to get His approval.
    • SkippyDoorknob, on 04/18/2008, -1/+41Maybe he was praying to be removed the flight and his prayers were answered?
    • ePuck, on 04/18/2008, -7/+2He was probably laying on the ground praying in the aisle. Dont block the aisle yo.
    • coinman987, on 04/19/2008, -2/+1kind of like praying in church?
    • GrantTheGr8, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Everything you're saying is true but it's kind of bad customer service to have someone escorted off of the plane by security when he only wanted a couple more minutes. I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong. He was. I'm just saying the airline probably could have handled the situation a little more tactfully.
  • rjwusa, on 04/18/2008, -46/+219This is when freedom FROM religion is warranted. When some idiot puts his religious agenda before anyone else. We don't have a legalistic God, That means, if you can't pray at that time, God will understand. Or better yet, pray silently in your seat. God understands. If you do see a Muslim facing Mecca, praying out loud on a plane, yelling "Allahu Akbar", you might just consider getting the hell off the plane.
    • xTRUMANx, on 04/18/2008, -34/+65Why must I get off a plane if a Muslim is praying? I'm guessing people haven't read your last sentence before they dugg you up.
      • nihilite, on 04/18/2008, -1/+16actually, i'd probably consider both options. One of the two would need to happen.
      • brjndr, on 04/18/2008, -8/+55No, people read it. A Muslim facing mecca on a plane and yelling Allahu Akhbar probably is a fundamentalist terrorist. It's the YELLING part that gives him away.
        • mr100percent, on 04/19/2008, -3/+6The words "Allahu akbar" is the opening of a Muslim prayer. It's not a fundamentalist thing. Furthermore, they don't yell it while praying quietly. I'm guessing you've never sat in on a real prayer (which Muslims can do in their seat).
        • Lithpiperpilot, on 04/19/2008, -0/+6That's why he added the YELLING part. If the muslim was praying quietly, then no problem.
      • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -1/+51The yelling part might make me want to get off the plane.
      • macweirdo42, on 04/18/2008, -6/+47True... Hell, I'd consider getting off the plane if there was a Christian loudly praising "Jaysus". I don't discriminate - I don't want to put up with any of that ***** from any religion. It's like any other form of crazy people - yeah, you might feel bad from them, but you start feeling a little uncomfortable when they start having loud, animated conversations with the voices in their heads next to you on the bus.
        • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -3/+15I consider getting of a plane if there are too many crying babies. Annoying religious people should just not be allowed on in the first place.
      • Idiggapony, on 04/18/2008, -17/+8Actually, if a group of Muslims on a plane starts praying, yelling, and threatening the passengers and crew, and you try to have them removed from the plane, you'll get sued.
        • macweirdo42, on 04/18/2008, -2/+4Damnit, something seriously needs to be done about Digg's comment system. I'm getting tired of all of the comments that keep slipping out from Bizarro World.
          • Idiggapony, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3Bizarro world? That's not a very nice thing to call the city of Minneapolis! Try googling "flying imams".
          • macweirdo42, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4I live in St. Paul - I fail to see how referring to Minneapolis as "Bizarro World" is a problem.
        • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3Unless you work for the airline, and then it's your job to make everyone on the plane conform to a homogeneous state.
      • RSS14, on 04/18/2008, -9/+4Dugg for "ALLAHU AKBAR!"
      • DivisibleByZero, on 04/18/2008, -9/+2Yeah, I'm pretty sure the people who dugg him up didn't read the article and realize the guy in question was a Jew either....
      • faithfreedom, on 04/19/2008, -1/+5I rather be safe than sorry. Just take the next plane.
      • coldwayz, on 04/19/2008, -2/+6well, generally Muslims don't yell while praying, unless they're in a private place. I dunno about the Shia sect, but Muslims are only vocal during the evening prayers. Even then, you're supposed to do it quietly.
        • snypa, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2private place or no private place, muslims don't yell whatsoever in their prayers. evening prayers are said aloud but to a just audible level.
      • julianrod, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2C'mon, you know you would too...
    • yellowfish04, on 04/18/2008, -18/+4wow, talk about insensitive...way to go
    • DarkLance, on 04/18/2008, -3/+10let me help you out there, that should read:
      "you might just consider THEM getting the hell off the plane."
    • TheTaoOfBill, on 04/18/2008, -6/+51I am a strong advocate of Freedom OF religion instead of freedom FROM religion. However freedom of religion does not apply on a private companies airplane. They have the right to boot you off the plane for whatever reason they want.
      • nogayskthx, on 04/19/2008, -6/+0Get off the plane, you're asian.
      • julianrod, on 04/19/2008, -1/+9Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion. The same as any freedom, it ends when it starts affecting me.
        • rjwusa, on 04/19/2008, -3/+2The question is, how thin is your skin? Does the sight of someone wearing a cross, crescent moon, or star of David affect you, or just when they get into your face?
        • Lithpiperpilot, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2He means when it personally affects his freedoms. Just someone expressing their beliefs is not affecting him, but when it delays or causes problems, then it's wrong.
    • mrsammercer, on 04/18/2008, -3/+21Well, if I muslim guy were praying on a plane, I probably wouldn't freak out. But, if he were yelling some ***** while praying, I think I would. Come on, how could you not?
    • pintomp3, on 04/18/2008, -0/+15if there was a guy on a plane yelling for any reason, i would consider getting off. he doesn't have to be muslim. btw, this guy wasn't yelling. he was delaying the flight by not taking his seat.
    • Suricou, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4This was an orthodox jew. The God of his religion is strictly legalistic. If God says to pray for two minutes, then pray for two minutes whatever happens - otherwise, well, Deu 28:15 to end of chapter explains exactly what happens to those who don't keep the law. It involves financial ruin, disfigurement, a curse on family and livestock, and raping of daughters, and eventual painful death. Legalistic Gods can be very demanding.
      • sk11, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2lol, I bet Deu goes on to say that god is all merciful.
        • LessIsBest, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0Though seems that rudeness and sarcasm is the norm here, I will try to reply with a bit of maturity: No it does not
        • Suricou, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1Backwards. Prior to verse 15 is the carrot, the assurance of blessings on those who follow the law. After 15 is the stick, the curse on those who don't.
    • mr100percent, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1"pray silently in your seat. God understands."

      I'm so glad God appointed you His spokesman. Can I see your proof?
      To counteract your misinformed claim, Muslims can pray in seats in places like airplanes and trains, though some scholars may not prefer the idea. They don't yell either.
  • PappyPapillon, on 04/18/2008, -9/+243So this man of the Jewish faith causes a big stink by insisting that he be able to pray on an airplane in such a manner as to delay the departure of the flight. An airplane is not a public place. It is privately owned property and purchasing a ticket obligates you to follow the rules of the airline as well as all FAA regulations. If you do something to interfere with a flight you have committed a federal crime and are subject to prosecution. He's lucky that they showed such extreme tolerance of his behavior and simply put him on a different flight. He should have said his prayers in private before boarding the plane or silently from his seat.. Will he now scream anti-Semitism? Will the ADL start screaming anti-Semitism? I'm a Christian and If I were on a plane and a Christian started causing problem because he wanted to leave his seat and pray thus delaying the departure of the plane I'd want his butt thrown off the plane just like this Jewish fellow.
    • jcaino, on 04/18/2008, -0/+19bingo.
    • lechechocolate, on 04/18/2008, -0/+12I couldn't agree more.
    • monsieurginger, on 04/18/2008, -11/+6I don't see any comments suggesting anti-semitism and I haven't seen any response by ADL
    • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -20/+5I still think airline crews have too much power.
      • pintomp3, on 04/18/2008, -2/+9that is true, but using it to keep the flight on time is not an abuse of that power.
        • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -3/+5I don't remember the last time I had an on-time flight.
          • Silentnite85, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Blame the weather, antiquated Air Traffic Control towers, fuel prices, and waiting for those stupid-ass last minute lateshow passengers.

            The weather limits the amount of planes that can take off. ATC towers all feel they are overworked and slow everything down if they get stressed(not necessarily a bad thing). Fuel prices makes airlines have less people on staff to make everything roll smoother. And those bastard late show passengers who think getting on a plane is like getting on a bus and think they can ignore security run up as the door is closing.
    • DevilInPgh, on 04/18/2008, -2/+8I don't think the ADL will get involved. The man should have waited until the plane took off and got to 10,000 feet (or is it cruising altitude?). Now, if they had a problem with him during the flight, that's a whole different animal.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/18/2008, -14/+9I don't know what to think of comments like this. A person makes a completely reasonable and rational argument until the very end when they say "I am a Christian".

      I am not saying that belief in a God is irrational. But the belief in the Bible as a source of truth sure is. How can you look at other religious people has behaving irrationally when you believe a book like the Bible to be the word of God?

      I mean it almost makes more sense to me when I see religious people behaving strangely because they actually believe this book that is full of crazy ideas and tells them to do crazy things. When I see Christians or Muslims or Jews that seem like "reasonable people" to me, my first reaction is that they are not really part of that religion because surely if they really believed in it, they'd be doing some of the stuff their holy books tell them to.

      I was raised without religion so I don't have a good idea what thats like, but I don't know how people can rationalize all the contradictions between their faith and the world around them.


      I still dugg you up though.
      • YoshinoAiki, on 04/18/2008, -7/+1Wow, it seems you really don't like Christians or anyone who believes in any part of the Bible. I don't see how you can believe that the "belief in God" is not irrational and yet believe that the Bible as a source of truth is irrational. Sure, there are discrepencies in the Bible -- it's a very old text that has been translated over and over again throught milleniums of time. But it still has much truth in it to teach. And when it comes to being Christian, it is pretty hard to be one and not believe in the Bible, especially the New Testament, as a source of truth about Jesus and His teachings.

        How can you claim that a person can't possibly be rational or make a sound argument merely because that person claims to be Christian and hence probably believes in the Bible as a source of truth for his/her beliefs in Christ?

        And you continue to display your own brand of irrationality by going on about books "full of crazy ideas" making more sense than "reasonable people" who believe in the Bible. What exactly does the Bible tell you to do that is so crazy and irrational? Not to kill, not to steal, not to covet, and to love God and other people (among a great many other things)? Yeah, that's some crazy *****. You've gotta be CRAZY and irrational to believe that!
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/19/2008, -2/+4Firstly I do not dislike Christians. I have many Christian friends. I think many people at times in their life behave irrationally whether they are religious or not. It just so happens that religion is a huge part of many people's life.

          I don't see any overwhelming evidence for or against the existence of a God or many Gods. But I see mountains of evidence showing the Bible to be false as both a description of our world and as a moral code to live by.

          I know you have to believe in the Bible to be a Christian. This is why I assumed PappyPapillon believed in the Bible. Also the Bible is not JUST the new testament. IT also includes the Old testament. Nowhere in the new testament does it say "Forget all that stuff in the old testament".

          Also I think Christians are perfectly capable of making rational arguments, just not usually when it comes to the subject of religion. I even make irrational arguments sometimes, and if I find a flaw in my logic I try to correct it. I don't hold any of my beliefs as sacred.

          Is there anything that could make you disbelieve in the Bible? If not, do you think thats a good thing?

          Also, I don't know if you have read the Bible or not, but there are actually many crazy things in it. You would realize this if you actually read it. Obviously there is some good things in the Bible as well, but that doesn't help to make the Bible as a whole true, Also because the Bible is supposedly the word of God, it might not be prudent to take out the parts that are bad or fix them to make them "good" again.

          There are many places in the bible where it instructs people to kill and torture others. The bible says that children should be killed for disrespecting their parents and that people should be killed for working on the Sabbath. The bible is full of values that modern society views (and should view as barbaric). It teaches that women should be subservient to men. It teaches that slavery is OK, and instructs slaves to obey their masters.

          Now for every other book, I can rationally make the decide to believe or follow some of the text and discard other parts. Unfortunately the Bible is supposed to be the world of God, so really it does not make sense to follow some parts but not others. If the Bible is not 100% correct, then that makes it NOT the word of God. If it is not the word of God then it loses all of it's credibility as a moral code, because it uses divine inspiration as proof of its correctness (i.e. not logic or evidence).

          I won't even start on the Quran.

          I don't know who you are or how old you are. I don't know what your level of education is or how devout you are. All I can tell you is that the Bible is *****. I can't make you see it. You just have to see it for yourself. It really does not affect me in any way if you chose to be Christian or not. I just don't like to see good people being fooled.
          • Silentnite85, on 04/19/2008, -3/+1For the record, I love how whenever anyone is about to start stereotyping and bashing a particular people the first thing out of their mouth is "Now some of my best friends are..." Really? How understanding of you.

            Regarding the rest of your post, if people want to believe it fine, there is a lot of good messages in the Bible as well as a lot of stupid ones. The book itself is not wrong for people choosing to practice some of the ideas described.

            Stop trying to convert people, and let them be who they are. I would say the same to anyone else.
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3Except that having friends that are of type X is probably the best evidence that i do not dislike people of type X. This is just common sense. I am glad it amuses you.

            What I find amusing as when people think that truth is subjective. (i.e. What may be true for one person is not true for another.) For me it is true that the earth is 4 billion years old, but for someone else the earth may be 6 thousand years old. The earth is different ages for different people. Many of life's questions have a definite right and wrong answer. We may not know what the answer is 100% for sure, but we will all agree that there is a right answer. My contention is that for a huge number of these types of questions the Bible appears to be blatantly wrong.

            Also I can try to convert people all I want. I don't fault Christians for trying to share what they consider to be the truth. I only fault the dishonest TV evangelists who are obviously crooks. If you knew something that you thought could help other people, I think it is altruistic to spend time and effort to try to share that information with people.
        • funkyp56, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3wow, a little prayer mixed with an airline sure has caused a lot of comotion....please sir return to your seat while I get these mother ***** snakes off this ***** plane!
        • tbstudee, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Good thing the bible says not to kill or steal cuz if it didn't I'd be doing that ***** all the time!
      • zizzo, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6Read the comment again. He was stating it as a point of reference such as: I am X and I would treat someone who is also X like me the same way if they pulled a similar move.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4I realize that.

          My point was that the argument of "Hey this guy is being really irrational, because even I am pretty irrational, and even I think he is irrational", doesn't really help your argument. Being more irrational does not help you to better discern how irrational other people are being,
      • flashback99, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Interesting and controversial point.
      • beloitpiper, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1No matter what he is, if he makes a rational argument, then it is a rational argument.
    • whahaa, on 04/18/2008, -2/+18i'm a jew and i say no antisemitism here. just another case of religion in general being retardedly oblivious to verifiable reality, causing harm in the name of goodness.
    • hinchb, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1I came here to post this, but it looks like I won't have to.
    • mickstephenson, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3Dugg for being completely right, and because papillon is one of my favourite books.
    • paperclipsNsoup, on 04/18/2008, -12/+4Well I can't say I fully agree with you.

      Orthodox Jews (Most sects) must pray 3 times a day, morning, afternoon and nights. Since the flight was going JFK to SFO (San Francisco) thats a 6 1/2 to 7 hour flight. The JFK airport can also be very busy, he probably didn't want to pray in the airport, as that may increase his delay. But if he prayed on the airplane he would have time and be able to pray again at the SFO airport.

      The reason he may have decided to pray in the back of the plane is that some sects of Orthodox Jews believe that you must stand during these prayers. I highly doubt that he meant to create a problem, and it very well may have been an error in judgment. But I don't think all the fault was with him, I think that the airplane attendants should not have bothered him once they knew what was happening as they were still boarding. The same thing happens if you try and go to the bathroom, they tell you to wait until the plane takes off (even if boarding just then started)
      • grgt1994, on 04/18/2008, -0/+11Even though your flight time is inflated by at least 50%, he still would have had ample time to pray while IN FLIGHT.
        • heliox, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6Might be more effective, being that the person is closer to God...
      • bobartig, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6May have been an error in judgement? It simply WAS an error in judgment. When the flight crew is coordinating a plane take off, they are trying to help passengers with their luggage and whatever flight-related special needs. They have an obligation to the passengers, and the airport to do this efficiently and quickly so that planes can take off (relatively) on time, and contribute to keeping the airport running. He had time before the flight. Anything that goes against these goals is an immediate problem to the flight crew. He would have had time during the flight. He picked the single WORST possible time to try and get his uninterruptible prayer in. Guy just pulled a stupid. He violated FAA regulations. He got off easy.
      • griz, on 04/19/2008, -2/+3The thing I find odd is that they let him finish and still booted him from the plane. Once he was done and explained the situation, there was no need for them to remove him from the plane.
        What would be their motivation at this point to remove him? To make an example of him? That's just crap. The article even says he didn't mean to be disrespectful and he only prayed for 2 minutes. I have been on plenty if flights where they have held the plane for people who have yet to board and it was for longer than 2 minutes.
        • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Their justification is that if he ignored the instructions of the flight crew once, there's no telling what he might have done while in flight. He was considered "uncooperative" and therefore a risk to the safety of the flight.
      • salomejones, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Dont bother with these people; I've offered similar explanations of Jewish law and ritual, as some Jews see them---not to excuse, but only to explain the behavior of those who's stories make it to Digg. And time after time, I am buried--even though the information is sound and in no way was meant to cause argument. Take from that what you will, but I take from it that these people come to Digg *looking for a fight*...

        Which is of course, as the man said, the very surest way to find one.
    • TheSabre, on 04/18/2008, -5/+9First of all, I agree with you. However, the article did say that after he was finished praying, he apologized and they removed him and still landed on time. Meaning, he wasn't delaying any flight. I agree that they are a private company and they can certainly remove anyone causing any type of disturbance. But if they had time to remove him after he was finished praying and they still got to their destination on time, then I'm sure him taking his seat when he was finished would have had the same outcome and all would have been okay.
      • pintomp3, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4what happens next time? do we have to delay every flight because someone wants to pray?
        • TheSabre, on 04/19/2008, -3/+4Was ANY flight delayed? What makes you think that every flight in the future will be delayed when there is no history of any being delayed previously? What happens the next time someone uses a slippery slope argument to make their case? Do we dismiss everyone's opinion because someone doesn't know how to use proper debating techniques?
      • liquidpele, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2The delay might have been undone by a decent tailwind. Without more information, it's impossible to say. However, I think the point was that he delayed the flights *departure*
        • TheSabre, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2Actually, what this article doesn't tell you (which you can look up on flightstats.com's historical flight information regarding UA 9 on 4/16), the flight took off 4 minutes later than expected. So, this may have delayed their flight a few minutes. And it landed 44 minutes earlier than expected.

          The same flight on Thursday was also 4 minutes late departing. Anyone that has flown knows that 4 minutes is NOTHING. That's a very minute delay when sitting in the airplane waiting to taxi. I just feel this entire situation was blown out of proportion. I'd be willing to bet, when he was finished praying, had they let him stay on the plane rather than get the guards to escort him off and detain him, the plane probably would have left on time. It takes more than 4 minutes to call in the guards, have them come on the plane, and have them escort someone off.
          • liquidpele, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1Don't get me wrong, I doubt the delay was much of a concern. I think the main reason they did this was to punish him for not following the flight attendant's instructions. Not that it was harmful or delayed the plane in a significant way, but it's very rude and sets a bad precedent for the other passengers that they can ignore the rules on the flight.
      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+2It's not about the delay, it's about the refusal to comply with flight crew instructions (even though he apologized later). It's also not about punishment, it's about not knowing how this guy would behave during a very long flight, and what other instructions he might ignore in the name of his religious beliefs. What if he insisted on standing to pray during turbulence, and fell over injuring himself or someone else? The flight crew just didn't want to risk their jobs over it, it was easier to remove him.
        • TheSabre, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Yes. Which is why I started my post with "First of all, I agree with you" when the OP said he was kicked off for not following airline instructions. My post was merely an "even though they were right in removing him, it wouldn't have made the plane take off any sooner. It most likely delayed it more." That's all. I'm not saying they were wrong for doing what they did.
    • mw113, on 04/19/2008, -2/+12If he was Muslim they would have jailed and charged with conspiracy to commit terrorism.
      • Suricou, on 04/19/2008, -1/+5If he was Christian, WND would be screaming about him being persicuted as another example of how the government is trying to stop Christians pacticing.
    • Flashman, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Nobody said he delayed the flight, just that he prayed for two or three minutes while the plane was being boarded.
    • julianrod, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1W W Seinfeld D?
    • Andysan, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Since this seems to be an isolated incident, my money is on the side of mental illness. One goofy guy = one guy with mental issues.
    • webspinur, on 04/19/2008, -0/+0Nicely stated paperclipsNsoup!

      This has been brought up already however i thought i would expound upon it a bit.

      One only has to listen to what Yahushua (Jesus) specifically said about this type of person and this type of behavior:

      Matthew (Mattithyahu) 6:5-6: (5) "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward." (6) "But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father in heaven who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

      If you read the previous verses to the above, it will also tell you that when you are giving to charity that you are not to do so "before men", "sounding your trumpet" ahead of you so that all sees it.

      Bottom line, this man, and anyone who does like him (whether Jew, Christian, Muslim or other), is basically showing off to men, for self-gratification, ("see how holy i am"), and his or her prayer falls on deaf ears because of it. These type of people are considered to be hypocrites.

      Every single major religion on this planet is guilty of this, so it's no wonder that mankind is being driven away from established religions, as hypocrisy is all people see.
      • LessIsBest, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0This post is why wikipedia exists: BEFORE you post you should try to research a bit. Orthodox Jews are very legalistic and they DO NOT consider Jesus Christ as a source of spiritual authority (some will even refuse to say his name). His religion tells him that he has to pray for a certain amount of time, and whether some other religion considers him a hypocrite is not of importance to him. The thing I find funny about this incident is that the airline kicked the guy out of the plane because he was holding up the plane from leaving. But if you read the article, it states the individual had concluded his religious activities, and afterwards the security guard was called and he was kicked out. The act of not allowing him to fly was more as a punishment action versus a preventive.
  • laserblazer, on 04/18/2008, -11/+97Attention whores are rather annoying.
    • dissolved, on 04/18/2008, -3/+16To be fair, I highly doubt he was doing this just to get attention. Orthodox Jews have pretty strict guidelines for prayer, including specific times and procedures. Granted, he shouldn't have scheduled a flight that intersects with a time of prayer. I don't know all of the details, but as an observant Jew, he was almost certainly just following the rules of his faith, not just seeking attention.
      • mlostracco, on 04/18/2008, -8/+2So much energy is spent being so hopelessly devoted. Does God really require such endless flattery? In the words of the amazing Sharon Jones:

        I know you think you've got your own thing
        I know you think you've got your own bag
        But believe me when I tell you, baby
        Your thing is a drag
      • laserblazer, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3Such a pious man would respect those around him.
    • joebob793, on 04/19/2008, -8/+1Alright let's all be honest, if this guy was Muslim we'd be screaming for the ACLU to get involved and defend his ass from the crazy Christains.

      You know I"m right.
  • duckyinc, on 04/18/2008, -46/+15Wheres your God now?!
  • AdamZC, on 04/18/2008, -23/+48What a limited God that can only hear people that are prostrate.
    • alanr19, on 04/18/2008, -19/+6don't judge god by the actions of a jibbering retard on a plane.
      • flashback99, on 04/19/2008, -2/+3judge him by the actions of the ones on the ground.
        • skulljar, on 04/19/2008, -4/+2Don't judge God.
        • julianrod, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4Why not? He judges you...
        • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Yeah, judging something that doesn't exist is just a waste of time.
    • Leetamus, on 04/18/2008, -2/+3dugg for use of prostrate :D
    • thebaron2, on 04/18/2008, -0/+7Prostrate means kneeling or lying down. This guy's god wanted him standing, for whatever reason.
    • x2cprincess, on 04/19/2008, -5/+1What a limited individual that doesn't read the article before he comments.
      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -1/+1Yeah, because standing up to pray is so much better than kneeling down to do it. I believe his point was that the very act of praying makes you figuratively prostrate yourself to God, if not literally (like Catholics).
    • sk11, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4God: kneel before me
      * Follower kneels

      God: Now, lie down
      * Follower lies down

      God: Ok, good, now stand on one foot
      * Follower stands on one foot

      God: Heh Heh, now hop on one foot whilst clapping your hands behind your back
      * Follower obliges

      Satan: lol, you're one sick bastard god
      God: rofl
  • alanr19, on 04/18/2008, -38/+10HAHA where is your god now godboy!!!!!!!!!!!

    I hate the way their always shoving their beliefs on us. A happy ending for all.
    • flip2trip, on 04/18/2008, -3/+14When's the last time a Jew tried to convert you? Buried for being ignorant.
      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1By "shoving their beliefs" I think he meant that the guy expected everyone to make an exception for his behaviour because it was "for religious reasons," not that the guy was trying to convert people.
    • bassman12593, on 04/19/2008, -0/+5once again, i wish digg had a "***** Idiot" button
  • OJdidntdoIT, on 04/18/2008, -47/+6***** that yank his ass up, do like i do on the plane. Close your eyes bow your head and act like your sleeping while your praying.

    No need for all that show boating *****. I bet those 911 people did taht ***** right before they pulled out the shanks...
  • rpong1981, on 04/18/2008, -35/+632 diggs and on the front page? wtf
    • minorthreat, on 04/18/2008, -0/+14no matter how many times a story under 50 diggs hits the front page, we will always have people simply amazed at the algorithm used to determine which stories make it.
    • mrsammercer, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2Does it really warrant a "wtf" at this point? It happens all the time. I don't know for sure myself, but I'm guessing that if like 20 people happen to digg something within a second or two, it gets a fat bump.
    • tnoy, on 04/18/2008, -3/+2You made that comment 33 minutes ago and are only -11 right now?

      er, -12.
  • techweenie1, on 04/18/2008, -2/+54I agree with the Airlines on this one, no reason this man should be out of his seat near the lavatory praying, holding up the plane and the passengers from taking off and possibly posing as a security risk, he could pray from his seat just fine.
    • DevilInPgh, on 04/18/2008, -2/+11Actually, religious Jews stand up to pray. That being said, he should have waited until 10,000 feet or cruising altitude.
      • dollar0dot02, on 04/18/2008, -0/+7How do religious Jews who are disabled, bedridden, or too weak to stand up pray?
        Does a religious Jewish soldier who is on the front line in a tranche stand up to pray?

        I am neither a Jew nor religious but my common sense is telling me there would be some exceptions to the rules where intention is more important then adhering to a form.

        Still, maybe the guy is not a fundamentalist. Maybe he was just afraid that the plane would not reach 10,000 feet or cruising altitude and so he was praying for safe take off.
        • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1He could have done that a few hours before the flight.
      • techweenie1, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I like praying before take off too, although I don't think I have the last few times, wouldn't it be acceptable given the situation for religious Jews to sit in their seats rather than stand, I know certain christians that believe you are suppose to kneel rather than sit when you pray, but those of them who are elderly or who have bad knees aren't expected to kneel.
    • jimjoke, on 04/18/2008, -8/+4So true. Besides, for all they know, it could've been a muslim terrorist planning to blow up the plane.

      I've learned everything I need to know about Islam on 9/11
      • MrWhite7, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5Fantastic, now how about Judaism? That one actually has a bearing on this article.
      • KegBol, on 04/19/2008, -2/+3And I've learned everything I need to know about you on Digg.

        ***** retard.
  • MattInChicago, on 04/18/2008, -15/+11I swear people do this to get attention.
    • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -2/+6Absolutely. Public displays of religion are as self-absorbed as public sex... just a lot less fun to watch.
      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1When have you ever seen public sex?
  • dibbler, on 04/18/2008, -14/+47Can you imagine what would have happened if he had been Muslim? I don't think he would have just missed his flight. I think he would have come in for rather more attention.
    • leexy, on 04/18/2008, -2/+16And one can only imagine the ensuing deluge of negative comments about Islam on Digg...
    • Idiggapony, on 04/18/2008, -11/+6If he had been Muslim, the Saudi-funded lawsuits would have been flying before he woke up the next morning.
    • JointVenture, on 04/19/2008, -10/+11Muslims do their praying in the cockpit.
  • inchrnt, on 04/18/2008, -50/+10They couldn't wait 2 minutes? How long did it take them to remove him from the plane? This is pointless harassment.
    • troybob, on 04/18/2008, -1/+17His actions were pointless harassment. Why should he cheat everyone out of 2 minutes just because he has to put up a big show?
      • geneticlone, on 04/18/2008, -3/+3because they ended up waiting a lot longer?
        • sonofblacula, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6If you let one ***** get away with it, the rest come out of the woodwork.
    • nblsavage, on 04/18/2008, -0/+27They should inconvenience everyone else for one guy's ritual?
    • Zorkon, on 04/18/2008, -0/+18No, they can't wait 2 minutes. Because the plane behind them can't wait 2 minutes. And the plane behind that one can't wait 2 minutes, and so on, and so on, and so on. If he wanted to pray, he should have done so either in his seat, or in the terminal before departure.
      • EvilFerret, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4Exactly. 2 minutes doesn't sound like much, but it can add up very quickly. Before you know it you have planes being delayed over an hour just because a few customers "weren't ready".
    • Kronos6948, on 04/18/2008, -1/+15No. Planes have a schedule to keep. Unless there is some type of emergency, or there are actual issues with the plane, there is no reason a plane should be held up for someone to pray. He knew what time his flight left. He should've prayed BEFORE getting on the plane. I doubt his GOD goes by EST, nor does he have an atomic watch that is synchronized.
    • geneticlone, on 04/18/2008, -18/+1I am not a religious man but I would have to agree with you. This is just incompetency by the airline to solve a simple problem and showing a bit of patience. However, it would have been more responsible of the man to do his praying before he got on the airline. In either case though this was pointless harassment and I hope they both learn from this lesson.
    • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -8/+1Agreed. There was no reason to call security or take him off the plane. He even apologized. It seems almost certain that he did not know he would delay the departure. They announced "take your seats" after he started praying. He's Orthodox. It's pretty simple.
    • manitoba98xp, on 04/18/2008, -7/+2From the article: "When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn't interrupt his religious ritual and wasn't trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him"

      So they removed him after he stopped praying?
      • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -4/+1Yes. It is idiotic.
      • twiztidsinz, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1Where'd you read that?

        Using reasoning I would have to say that if he didn't stop praying when they asked/told him to sit down, then he wouldn't stop praying while being removed. Therefor when he was finished praying, and gave his apology, he was already off the plane which may or may not have already taken off by that time.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5Well they don't wait 2 minutes for other people, I don't see why he should get special treatment. Everytime I fly (usually southwest), it is abundantly clear that the airline wants to leave on time and has no problems leaving without people to attain that goal. I got on a plane once where a member of my party was about 10 seconds behind me, and they let me on but closed the door before he could get on.

      It seems like it would be better if they waited for everyone, but in reality this is just not true. By helping a few people at the expense of everyone else you are doing more harm than good. People have connecting flights and I would be pissed if I had to sleep in a hotel in Tuscon instead of my own bed because some idiot had to pray for 2 more minutes.
      • lex0nyc, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1Just because you're used to being treated like a cow by the airlines and don't object doesn't mean the rest of us are going to take their shenanigans.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4You completely missed my point.

          Being nice to 1 person means making everyone else on the plane late. Being nice to everyone just makes everyone really late. If they are willing to wait 2 minutes for people, then the people that are only 3 minutes late are going to bitch and moan. If they wait 5 minutes then the people that are 6 minutes late will bitch and moan. Pretty soon every plane will be delayed by 4 hours while everyone is at starbucks.

          I think it is much more practical and beneficial to everyone to just leave on time. I am about 100 time more mad when my plane is delayed than when they didn't wait for me.
          • lex0nyc, on 04/19/2008, -3/+1I'm sure Mussolini would have agreed with you.
    • pintomp3, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3we'll see what you say when i'm on your flight and must offer pray to his noodliness. will you be ok with waiting?
      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Yes, everyone knows that the FSM requires his followers to lie in the aisle and scream jibberish for 30 minutes before any flight. It's part of our faith in our God and therefore everyone must respect us.
    • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1OK, one last time...it's not about the ***** 2 minutes!
      It's about a guy who wouldn't follow flight crew instructions and ignored the crew until he finished his prayers. Suppose they let him stay on the plane and then he stands up to pray during turbulence or during final approach? The point is he was unpredictable and an unacceptable risk.
  • Jovensdesciple, on 04/18/2008, -19/+7Sweet... ***** that guy. "He can't stop praying for 2 minutes," Why? Because thats when his timer is set to blow?
    • solesoul, on 04/18/2008, -5/+1Hey, I wonder why you're getting dugg down? Oh wait, maybe its because you like to make sweeping generalizations about entire groups of people
    • bullcutter, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2hahaha... sweeping generalizations kick ass!
    • askegg, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2God is very picky about how and for how long you must pray.
  • punkcat, on 04/18/2008, -1/+6when i am on a plane i lose all patience. maybe if there was more room it wouldnt be so bad but there is not.
    • Chrispyc1211, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Seriously. There's no worse environment to be hassled by other people's quirks, really.
  • doremon313, on 04/18/2008, -20/+2he shouldnt have distracted the plane, but calling the security is going a bit far, I bet it wouldn't have happen if he was a christian praying standing up....
    • nblsavage, on 04/18/2008, -3/+16when you're on a plane about to take off...you get in your damn seat like the rest of us. I refuse to be held up due to superstitious drivel.
    • giveer, on 04/18/2008, -0/+9You did RTFA right? they removed him because he wasn't listening to airline personnel and was holding up the airplane departure time (which I'm sure ripple effects throughout the day). They didn't remove him because he was praying.. he could've been looking for a contact lens for all anyone cares. I'm sure a standing Christian would've been told to do the same thing is he was breaking airline regulations...
  • daizaru, on 04/18/2008, -4/+8heh, people need to learn that they will do basically anything to throw someone off a plane these days. Basically anything that impedes standard procedure by the slightest bit warrants eviction. It's crazy in some ways, but people just need to get with the program.

    That said, he could have prayed from his seat as well. It's inconsiderate to slow down a flight, some people have connecting flights that leave them very little room to transfer from plane to plane. The silly thing though, throwing him off the plane would have grounded the flight even longer.
    • asskicker32, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4they did throw him off the plane. After he was finished praying.
      • daizaru, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I didn't think I implied otherwise.
    • supergnome, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1"Basically anything that impedes standard procedure by the slightest bit warrants eviction. It's crazy in some ways, but people just need to get with the program." It's a pretty good way of getting the masses accustomed to being oppressed. I wonder when the interstate border checks will come up?
      • sonofblacula, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4When the reptilians are ready to announce their presence. Just kidding, you're ***** insane.
        Seriously though, there is nothing sinister about the airlines forcing you off the plane for disobeying them. Even if it saved no time, it teaches others that this behavior is unacceptable. Otherwise, every crazy would just do what the hell they want and the system would slowly lock up.
      • Evolutuon, on 04/18/2008, -2/+5Sit the ***** down or get the ***** off. Seriously, time is money.
        • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3I agree. There are only two things to do when getting on a plane.

          Sit down.
          Shut up.
      • daizaru, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2#1 I'm Canadian, they don't stand that here too.
        #2 You just don't mess with people who have the authority to make your life more difficult just to prove a point. When a police officer pulls me over, I think "couldn't you be out solving crime or something?". Am I going to say that to him? No way. I take my ticket and I pay it. When I cross the border going through customs and they ask me the purpose of my visit... do I say "what's it to you?"... no. Sometimes it's just in your interest to abide by the rules.

        We don't get jump to from throwing off a plane to a dictatorship, I hate all you doom and gloom types who do nothing but say "it's coming!" while comfortably sitting on their ass doing nothing about it. It doesn't start on a plane so pick a new venue to start some *****.
    • loggia, on 04/19/2008, -5/+1It's funny. All the people who say "yeah just sit down and do what you're told" are the same people who file $400 million dollar lawsuits when they're the ones kicked off the plane.
      • daizaru, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3That makes little to no sense... Are you trying to imply we tell people one thing then purposely start things on a plane to file lawsuits? Do you have statistics to back this up or is it just some sort of random claim in a poor effort to say something witty? I need the peice of paper or link that says "80% of people who say be quiet, don't do the same and file lawsuits" survey.
  • hoverstudios, on 04/18/2008, -11/+2Apparently, God couldn't hold the plane or touch the hearts of those cold airline stewards.
    God can't even intervene before takeoff, we had no chance on Sept. 11th. :)
    • asskicker32, on 04/18/2008, -4/+3God has no jurisdiction on private property.
  • lorductape, on 04/18/2008, -16/+1Although doing it strictly to get attention is one thing, isn't this WHY we have freedom of religion in the first place? If he wasn't harming anyone else then it was completely inappropriate for them to remove him.
    • downneck, on 04/18/2008, -1/+6freedom of religion is a government thing. an airline is a private company that can tell you to go f*ck yourself for any reason they like
    • asskicker32, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4He was causing difficulties for everyone else on the plane, when there were alternatives. It takes a long time to get the plane boarded, why didnt he start praying as soon as he got on and then he would be done when the plane was ready for take off. The story makes it seem that he waited for everyone to siti down, then got up and started praying. Its not directly harming people, but it is causing delays in everyone's schedule which could have affects that we do not know.
    • joelito, on 04/18/2008, -0/+5Freedom of religion is supposed to go both ways. Religion is not supposed to disrupt the rights of the citizens (involuntarily), and the government is not supposed to prohibit or mandate the practice of any specific religion.
    • sonofblacula, on 04/18/2008, -0/+1He was.
  • rounderob, on 04/18/2008, -17/+0If it is the guys costom to do that then there is no right for him to be kickied off the plane that is upserd!!! And about the limits to freedom of relgion there is NONE WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY!!!
    • corfe83, on 04/18/2008, -0/+8No limits to freedom of religion? Religious customs are only unlimited until they violate the law, rounderob.

      What if someone's religious custom were to torture and kill everyone they meet. You don't think a limit to their religious freedom is appropriate?

      If there were no limits to religious freedom, then nobody could be convicted of any crime whatsoever, because they could just say "my personal religious beliefs tell me to do it", and they'd be off the hook.
      • rounderob, on 04/18/2008, -4/+0that is just absurd what kind of religion do u know that supports that kind of thinking??? If someone follows that religion then they would be considered a crazy person and maybe just maybe that is why the kill people. You think???
    • downneck, on 04/18/2008, -1/+8basic english, you should look into it. i'm assuming you're a non-native speaker...however, that's no excuse for coming on an english speaking site and posting that train wreck. if you ARE a native english speaker, i'd consider ritual suicide involving ferrets and soda
    • HouseofEl, on 04/18/2008, -0/+6If it is the man's custom, then he should have prayed before boarding.
    • lacsapper, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3And apparently your right to abuse our eyes with your poor grammar...
    • asskicker32, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4wow, that is the worst spelling of "absurd" that I have ever seen...
  • fizzak, on 04/18/2008, -12/+7Reminds me if the time a backwoods Missouri pastor tried to convert me from the seat next to me. I asked him if he got brownie points from god for his efforts.
  • DeskFlyer, on 04/18/2008, -0/+28Yeah, let's hold up air traffic to let this guy pray. What did he expect?
  • Logicexe, on 04/18/2008, -15/+20To be fair, the article says he was standing up and praying while the plane was boarding so he wasn't really holding up the flight or posing a danger. Heck, the reason he went towards the back of the plane could have been to stay out of the way of other passengers who were boarding the plane.

    If one of the concerns was time, why would they take the time to kick him off the plane? Certainly it would take longer to get him kicked off the plane than to just let him finish his 2 minute prayer?

    Don't get me wrong, the airline had every right to kick him off if they saw a risk or if he was holding up the plane (which he wasn't), I'm just wondering exactly what that risk was.
    • lacsapper, on 04/18/2008, -5/+62 minutes this time while boarding...next time 10 minutes at a more inappropriate time? I'm guessing they were more wanting to send a message than really concerned about time. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for religious freedoms; but there is such a thing as common courtesy. Delaying a flight of who knows how many people (even for a few minutes) so you can say your prayers seems a bit much. Take your seat and pray silently, God won't mind (I hope!).
      • pmrx, on 04/19/2008, -3/+2But he didn't delay the flight. Even when they removed him, after praying, the flight was not delayed. No, I think this was more about maintaining the status quo and having easily spooked crew and patrons. He did nothing wrong- moved to the back of the plane so as not to be in the way, and prayed away from everyone else. If I feel a deep religious conviction, I might just pray several times a day no matter where I am, like an Orthodox Jew, Muslim, or maybe a Catholic. Peoples' mob mentality and scared-of-the-dark approach to flight should not overrule our civil rights. The whole tyranny of the masses on the minority and such.

        I don't think we have to start worrying about Jews hijacking our planes. In fact, I would think that would kind of be at the bottom of their priorities considering Israel has a military capable of crushing 9 invading countries all at once.
        • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1"He did nothing wrong"
          You are wrong. He ignored the instructions of the flight crew. That is a federal crime.
    • joelito, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3Maybe he should have gone inside the lavatory itself.
      • Logicexe, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1That's true, that would have probably been better for everyone.
      • mr100percent, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1I can't read his mind, but I'm sure some people find it disrespectful to pray to God inside a smelly lavatory.
    • caramba420, on 04/19/2008, -1/+6They are operating a million pound piece of machinery in the sky at 600 miles per hour. It's a very serious job these people have. They should be able to do whatever they feel is necessary to ensure smooth operation. Really, how hard is it to get on, sit down, and shut the ***** up? When he refused their request to stop the first time, that is absolutely grounds for removal.
    • loggia, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3I don't know why Logicexe is being dugg down. It doesn't sound like we have the whole story. I mean, have you heard of anyone being taken off a plane for praying? Either the guy was out of line in more ways than the article says or the staff was. But it's hard to tell...
    • notouch, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3Maybe it's really to serve a warning to other religious people.
      This time it's a Jew who wish to stand up and pray for extra two minutes, next time it could be a Muslim who has to wash his hand 5 times while plane ascends. You need to draw the line somewhere, and it's best to draw the line to exclude both behaviors.
    • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1It's not about the delay he caused...Why do people keep focusing on the "2 minutes" aspect of the story?
      The point is, he was a risk to the flight. How do they know what other things this guy's religion will require him to do during the flight? Maybe he'll stand up again during turbulence, or during landing. Or, what if he stands up and prays for two minutes blocking the aisle during an emergency evacuation? If he's willing to ignore the flight crew once, he may ignore them again during the flight. That's why they had him removed.
  • kipmartin, on 04/18/2008, -7/+1the only thing wrong with Digg (ok, not the ONLY thing!) is that old stuff, like this item, crop up for some reason. isnt speed of ascendency weighted in Digg's algorithm somehow?

    in other news, flight attendants now being debriefed on the incident in Hell.
    • fohat, on 04/18/2008, -0/+2The article is from today... "Fri Apr 18, 2:36 AM ET"
      • DivisibleByZero, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1Well, it doesn't specify a year....
        • bradd12, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1If you read the address line (like I do), you'll notice it does...
          yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/praying_passenger
          Which would happen to be... today.
  • yissgtrleetaken, on 04/18/2008, -7/+19Did all you people who used "holding up the plane" in your argument realize that the article says the man had time to finish his prayers, the airline had time to get a guard to remove him, and the flight still landed at SFO on time.

    Must be one of those new superfast planes!
    • Leetamus, on 04/18/2008, -6/+4valid point
    • asskicker32, on 04/18/2008, -5/+11Speaking for all of Digg, we dont want to be troubled with all of your "rational thinking" or logic. We just want to be outraged.
    • aladrin, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6Yeah, because planes never 'make up time' by burning a little extra fuel. The fact that they landed on time only says how fast the security at the airport works and says nothing about how 'right' he was to be able to hold up the airline.
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Well how much is a little extra fuel to you? Do you know how much fuel airplanes use? It depends on the model and distance the plane is flying, but I'm guessing it's somewhere around 25,000 gallons of fuel to go from san francisco to new york. At $2 per gallon that's like $50,000 in fuel. So even if they only have to burn 2% more fuel to make up the time, that already costs another $1000.

        Fuel is the #2 cost for airlines, only behind labor costs.

        A coworker of mine worked for a couple YEARS just to reduce the drag on a section of the wing of a Boeing 747 by a fraction of a percent, and it saved Boeing millions of dollars because 747's were until then not getting the advertised fuel efficiency and Boeing paying the difference to the airlines.
    • pmrx, on 04/19/2008, -4/+1It is amazing you, leetamus, and asskicker32 have been dug down. They're going to kick us off the plane next.
    • unknamed, on 04/19/2008, -1/+4Anyone that thinks in this day and age that they can cause ANY sort of disturbance on a plane and NOT get kicked of the plane, arrested, and possibly stuck in a dark cell for days is either: A. Stupid, B. Not up on current events, or C. Delusional.

      I'm actually very surprised they didn't arrest him.
    • notouch, on 04/19/2008, -0/+4I was wondering about that too.
      2 minutes doesn't seem a long time, but I think the airline's decision was to give a warning to all religious folks out there, tell them don't use religion as excuse to interfere flight instructions.
      2 minutes of praying right now may not hurt, but what if some Mormon took the flight and wish to pray 10 minutes? if you remove the Mormon, he'd be like: you let the Jew prayed, why not me?
      They have to be fair to everyone.
    • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Actually, the airlines' published flight time is a worst-case and also includes an extra buffer so that even if the flight leaves late it will still arrive "on time" according to their scheduled arrival time.
  • Somedude2137, on 04/18/2008, -13/+6Sit down and shut the ***** up you religious *****
    • break99, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1yes sir! that,s the spirit. Those are so stupid.à
      i inherited a 25 millions CAND$ and I need they're account number to transfer the amount to it /419 sarcasm but these fools believe the same *****.
  • SniperGX1, on 04/18/2008, -0/+24Planes and boats don't have "freedoms". The captain is the ruler so long as you are on board that vessel. If the captain wants you off, you get off.
    • tnoy, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4Exactly, its essentially private property.
    • spyd3rweb, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4Someone understands maritime law.
    • pmrx, on 04/19/2008, -1/+1Does that mean we have to toil in the underbelly of the craft rowing oars to earn our keep?
      • psylence, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1Yup, but it's pretty windy and cold under there.
  • RedClaw, on 04/18/2008, -4/+17Regardless of religious creed, any form of fundamentalism and fanaticism is unwarranted. You have the right to believe and think what ever you want, and pray to whom you choose, but you do not have the right to impede the lives of others for your own selfish reasons - avoiding selfishness and self is the cornerstone of all religions, after all.

    The TSA/air line did the right thing here.
    • andrewlevy, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2If you read the article you would see he was not impeding passengers; he was in the back of the plane. It also says they had time to call a guard to remove him and still landed on time. If you were to argue that not listening to the flight crew's instructions warrants removal from the plane - fine. I'm just pointing out that your argument is baseless. Next time RTFA.
  • jhails, on 04/18/2008, -12/+6He should be charged, fined and jailed immediately. Religous people should be treated the same as other mentally unstable patients who hear voices and speak to their dogs. Drug them and lock em up.
  • ckmoore101, on 04/18/2008, -19/+2You can guarantee that if this had been a Muslim, it would be all over the major news shows, and the ACLU would already have lawyers lined up. But since its open season on Jews and Christians in this country, no harm, no foul.
    • DrPh0bius, on 04/18/2008, -1/+6Oh dear! Will the persecution of Christians and Jews NEVER END! They have it SOOO HARD! Muslims, count yourself lucky to be of that faith... these poor Christians and Jews have it bad!
  • ShempRider, on 04/18/2008, -2/+25Why didn't he pray in the terminal? Or wait til after takeoff...then he'd be 30,000 feet closer to G-d.
    • byrdgang, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2That is if you believe that God has a literal physical place somewhere that is fixated somewhere and distance relativity applies. If you believe you can be heard from anywhere without any disadvantages, you can pray anywhere.
  • Brownds, on 04/18/2008, -15/+12Why can't he pray like a normal person? Hugging the toilet! "Oh God I swear I' ll never drink again!" BAAAAARRRRRRRFFFFFF
  • seomike, on 04/18/2008, -2/+9Hey may have been scared of heights and prayed for some assistance. But then again with the airlines mostly on the fringe of bankruptcy and disgruntled mechanics I'd be praying too.
  • chesscat, on 04/18/2008, -14/+19Religions suck.
  • kingcorran, on 04/18/2008, -2/+10The guy should have scheduled his prayers for another time, or his flight for another time (if he had to pray at that moment). One way or another he chose this, and did not need to. That was stupid and inconsiderate.

    Also, throwing him off the plane was unnecessary and a bit petty.
    • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -2/+4Not following the instructions of flight attendants is a violation of federal law.
      • lordterrin, on 04/19/2008, -0/+3/agree with both of you... I think you made one of the few logical comments on here kingcorran. If the guy KNEW he was going to have to pray at that specific time, the least he could have done is ask the airline if he would able to do it... I also agree with someone earlier who said "we don't have a legalistic God," the guy could have done one OR the other... but not listening to the flight attendant is a federal crime, which, to me, seems like a bigger offense in God's eyes than praying at a specific time. I don't know where in the Bible it says you can ignore the law in order to pray?
  • redmink, on 04/18/2008, -9/+4This guy's prayers probably prevented the plane from crashing. That would have been much worse press for the airline. He was doing them a favor.
  • joshuagor44, on 04/18/2008, -7/+3Why couldn't they let him take is seat once he finished? Why was he kicked off when he was done? That doesn't fix anything.
    • Daysofclark, on 04/18/2008, -0/+3they probably called for guards after they had informed him he needed to take his seat

      Guards aren't omnipresent and it takes time for them to arrive from where ever they are in the airport at the time; in this case more than 2 minutes to get to the plane
    • DivisibleByZero, on 04/18/2008, -0/+4At that point it was no longer about keeping the plane on schedule, but about enforcing the rules. You ignore/disobey the rules, you're outta there.

      Now, if only they'd start enforcing that "no cell phones" policy. I'd rather not end up dead in a fiery crash because you had to "txt ur bff" to tell her you were about to land.
      • roosterjm2k2, on 04/19/2008, -2/+2If only there were a shred of evidence to prove that cell phones, which operate in freq. bands far seperated from those of the aircrafts instrumentation, have any effect on them....there is none though...so stfu ...
        • zakatov, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3How do you propose we test every single phone (including the $2 chinese knock-off of a knock-off that came out yesterday) performing every single function on every single plane performing its every single function? HUH? MORON.
          • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1You're the moron...by your logic we should be testing every single function of every single laptop and MP3 player and all other electronic devices that are currently allowed on planes to make sure they won't interfere. Obviously, we don't do that because it is possible to determine risk simply based on a knowledge of how these devices work.
  • SillyDigger, on 04/18/2008, -0/+7Freedom of religion and speech only applies to government property and the last time I checked United Airlines is not government owned. If he wants to pray to his deity he should find another place like a local synagogue.
    • Spire3660, on 04/18/2008, -7/+1Yet you have to pass through a government checkpoint to board. I would say the airline and the government are closer together than you like to think.
      • Boondoggle, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2You have to ride on government owned roads to get to a church... you have no point.
    • ShempRider, on 04/18/2008, -2/+2"Freedom of religion and speech only applies to government property..."
      No it doesn't. CONGRESS shall make no law, etc. Airlines, however, can tell you to ***** off if you delay their flights because you want to pray.
      Try to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and your ass is in the slammer.
      • 955701, on 04/19/2008, -0/+1What about a sparsely populated movie theatre? Let's say I was watching, uhm, Broken Arrow or some other late date John Travolta movie. If I shout fire and there is noone to hear it, do you still use extremely ridiculous arguments?
        • ShempRider, on 04/19/2008, -2/+1What's "sparsely populated"? 1 or Zero patrons?
          I'm getting too old to deal with this *****.
          Go ahead and YELL ***** FIRE.
          I'll sit in the gallery and laugh b/c you thought Digg was your Get Out of Jail Free Card.
          Oh, and Travolta's movies suck so no one cares if I you shout "Fire".

          ..."do you still use extremely ridiculous arguments?"
          Who are you? Do I know you? Get away from me, freak.
        • ShempRider, on 04/19/2008, -2/+1I'm just pissed off right now.
          I apologize.
          Comparing movies to reality is annoying these days.
        • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1Ummm... the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" argument is the classic law school argument supporting limitations to free speech.
  • dxgg, on 04/18/2008, -0/+8Before they even boarded the plane (or bought the ticket, for that matter) they KNOW what the rules are. If they're not willing to abide by them, either they deal with the consequences of their actions, or they choose to not get on a plane in the first place.
    • 3Den, on 04/18/2008, -5/+2Sorry - I've stood at the back of a plane during boarding many times.. and with the exception of cranky power-tripping flight staff, it's never been a problem. I didn't hold up the flight or scare anyone, or get in anyone's way.

      It sounds more like the staff are upset that this guy IGNORED them for a minute while he finished his little meditation, which, admittedly, would probably piss me off too.. but I'm not a service-industry employee.

      They should have smiled, nodded, sat the man down, and had the flight continue. NO danger to anyone, no bad press, no need to get upset.

      • morpheus69, on 04/20/2008, -0/+1How do they know there is no danger to anyone? How do they know what other things this guy's religion will require him to do during the flight? Maybe he'll stand up again during turbulence, or during landing. Or, what if he stands up and prays for two minutes blocking the aisle during an emergency evacuation? If he's willing to ignore the flight crew once, he may ignore them again during the flight. That's why they had him removed.
  • giveer, on 04/18/2008, -2/+13It really is this simple:
    - If I sleep in till 11am, I eliminate my option of doing stuff at 8 or 9am. I'm free to do stuff at both times, but MY DECISION dictates what I can't do.
    - I can choose to believe whatever I want to believe: Welcome to America - BUT - If your beliefs say you MUST do [this] no matter where you are at 10am every day, then you can't book yourself to sit on a runway at 10am. UGGGGHHHH.. I'm amazed that people think their "rights" are being violated...
    • burton3660, on 04/19/2008, -4/+2you must understand that people who live like that have lived that way their whole life they don't mind praying at whatever time so yes their rights are being violated by not being able to do what they're religion which is the most important thing more important to the law tells them to do
      • giveer, on 04/19/2008, -1/+6Incorrect. Their rights are NOT being violated. Here's a real case: Florida - Muslim woman wants to get her driver's license. She refuses to remove her facial veil for the picture. The State won't give her her license because she doesn't have a picture.

        Was the State telling her she couldn't practice her religion? No... They weren't supplying her with a license -BECAUSE- she wouldn't have a standard photo taken.
        -- Her ~~RELIGION~~ says she can't take the picture. Fine. The State allows her to practice that religion. Her ~~DECISION~~ to follow that religion means she can't get a valid driver's license. Period. And the court ruled in that favor. Again, if I freely decide to sleep until 11am, I eliminate my option of doing something at 9am. Too bad for me.

        By your comment NO planes should take off at ALL in that time of day ANYWHERE in case someone with his beliefs is getting on the plane.
        If he lived that way his whole life he should know by now that he shouldn't be somewhere where he CAN'T practice his religion at that time of day.

        50 bucks says he's never planned to be scuba diving at that time of day - or skydiving at that time of day - or running the Boston marathon at that time of day... because if he CHOSE to do those things, he wouldn't be able to practice his religion - So you're right, he should've known better by now and he should've chosen to be on a different plane so he could pray when he needed to - which the State completely allows him to do.
    • roosterjm2k2, on 04/19/2008, -0/+6Well... I think real law is more important than law written by men who heard voices in their heads...and bushes...
  • Evildudetx, on 04/18/2008, -6/+13Put his ass on the no fly list. Take a bus next time.
    • SmartedPanda, on 04/18/2008, -3/+2Or lynch him, or give him a star or something shoot...

      /sarcasm
      • 955701, on 04/19/2008, -1/+2So, did I miss something, or are you just predisposed to bowing up like a puffer fish?

        Don't answer that...
  • Idiggapony, on 04/18/2008, -2/+12He interfered with the operation of an aircraft (i.e. boarding), and refused instructions to stop doing so. I would never fly again with an airline that didn't kick him off of the plane.
    • break99, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5at last some common sense....
    • burton3660, on 04/19/2008, -4/+1his friends approached the situation politely and said that he would be done soon the airline should have some respect and courtesy i would never fly on a airline that wouldnt
      • kayfouroh, on 04/19/2008, -2/+2No, *****, they said once he starts praying the prayer must be finished.

        ***** if you ask me. Sit your ass down and pray in your seat, or pray before you get on the plane. Jewish prayers are stupid anyway, they pray before they eat bread.
        • Idiggapony, on 04/19/2008, -1/+3Wow, that went from needlessly abusive to harsh-but-sensible to offensively moronic in three short lines of text.
  • NecroSexy, on 04/18/2008, -1/+12Obviously he was praying for the flight to leave on time.
  • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/18/2008, -1/+11If this wasn't America, they could have just started the plane and watched him fall on his ass.
    • NOFXY, on 04/18/2008, -1/+8that would have been awesome, especially if it was caught on camera and put on youtube.
    • leexy, on 04/19/2008, -0/+2Not to nitpick, but there are lawyers outside of the USA too.
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 04/21/2008, -0/+1There are cowboys outside the US also, but here in America we seem to take certain things to the next level.
  • dopre, on 04/18/2008, -3/+13Let us praise God. Oh Lord, oooh you are so big. So absolutely huge. Gosh, we're all really impressed down here I can tell you. Forgive us, O Lord, for this dreadful toadying and barefaced flattery. But you are so strong and, well, just so super. Fantastic. Amen.

    Monty Python's The Meaning of Life
  • SmartedPanda, on 04/18/2008, -3/+1Sucks, could've prayed before the flight...or does he have to pray at a specific time?
  • tnoy, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1He probably complained to airport staff in the past for taking too long and delaying a flight.
  • Shayer, on 04/18/2008, -2/+3*note to myself*

    I've seen this exact submission a few weeks ago on digg with the exact comments below it word for word, and in the same order. I don't know what to make of it unless this is a glitch of some kind that made an older story come to the front page, but I am literally freaked out. This is like deja-vu like i've never experienced before.
    • YoshinoAiki, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1Maybe you went back in time a few weeks.
  • heystoopid, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1I seem to recall that one standing old time joke about United Airlines was "A wing and prayer airline" due to lack of adequate service or maintenance on the aging ancient decrepit jet fleet they normally fly across the Union of the Soviet States of Amerika !

    So who indeed would not pray for safe departure and landing when flying in their mobile death flying traps !
  • gdonald, on 04/18/2008, -4/+1Quit complaining about how inaccurate the bible is and help rewrite it to your own liking:
    http://rewriteproject.com/
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