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372 Comments
- CaptainPlanet, on 11/12/2008, -25/+160check out what the headlines could look like in a brighter future!
http://www.nytimes-se.com/ - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -4/+120I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts - SavRabbit, on 11/13/2008, -85/+191The scariest headline is the "Maximum Wage Cap successful".
That bothers me.
A lot.
As does the "Nationalised Oil" prospect, and all Public Universities being free (coming from a student at a public university).
The cost of all these "wonderful" programs is more regulation, more taxation, and less individual liberties.
(But of course people are only concerned with the "War in Iraq" headlines. Say NO to socialism) - SheilaNoya, on 11/12/2008, -26/+130They should have included a story about James Dobson being struck by lightning as he was preaching "God hates liberals".
- Lula87, on 11/13/2008, -13/+99"Westboro Baptist Church converts.... to Atheist!"
- terenceyap7, on 11/12/2008, -15/+100A real end to any war would be great news indeed, my friend!
*smiles* - lauraT1987, on 11/13/2008, -2/+60I think the US gov should pull troops out on 4th July 2009 to spook people out.
- btschul, on 11/13/2008, -13/+62Wait......you mean the regular NYTimes ISN'T a spoof? Oh my god.
- stanleyford, on 11/13/2008, -11/+58"The scariest headline is the "Maximum Wage Cap successful"." -- Ten years later, it would be followed by the headlines, "Study Finds Small Business Almost Extinct in US" and "Economists Befuddled as US Loses Edge in Innovation." Is it not obvious that reducing the incentive to take risks will reduce the number of people willing to take risks and innovate?
- neocreo, on 11/13/2008, -54/+95Ummm, socialism isn't something bad or dirty. Most of the ideas behind it are really good. It is the implementation of it that usually is lacking.
What is wrong with free basic health care? Public Libraries was an idea of an american for sure, that they should be free is obvious! For extra money they can arrange other services that people can pay for. The oil companies have had their run of the place at the cost of both money and environment, and could use a stern hand to comply with changing times the same as most banks(21st century style not 20th century). A maximum wage cap, sure, it sounds horrible and that it is punishing successful people, but come on - how many millions do you really need to make per day? I would say 2 million net per day would be more than enough :).
Of course you will need regulations! What is the problem if the regulations are beneficial for PEOPLE instead of lobbyists and corporate interests? Individual liberties? Of course you will have individual liberties! Individual responsibilities too! The liberty to be poor I think no one would like, nor the liberty to work 20 hour per day just to make ends meet. Those kind of liberties most people can do without!
Also, stop confusing socialism with communism. communism died a long time ago. Stop digging it up. (pun intended). There are no reds anymore.
read up on things if you are in university
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
and lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facism
Now read these and then make a more informed opinion.
I can't believe I have to get angry about this crap. - ElBeh, on 11/13/2008, -4/+39"The spurious 14-page papers — with a headline “IRAQ WAR ENDS” — surprised commuters, many of whom took the free copies thinking they were legitimate."
People actually fell for that? The actual NYT is usually over a hundred pages. I;m surprised people thought a fourteen-page paper was legit.... - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -4/+38They can keep their crazy on the Christian side of the fence.
- SavRabbit, on 11/13/2008, -21/+54@neocreo
I am not confused. I realise that "socialism" and "communism" are purportedly two different social systems, however how willing are you to deny the fact that the USSR was a collection of "Socialist Republics". It's the ideas of socialism that give way to communism. All it takes is a tiny nudge. And no, I'm not an alarmist, it's a fact. Socialism, Fascism, and Communism are all very alike in the way they strip personal liberties and individual rights away from the individual and concern themselves only with the collective.
No, I do not believe in government sponsored healthcare, education, or anything of that nature. The common fallacy people like you make is that these systems would either disappear all together (the assumption you are making about libraries) or become way too expensive for the common Joe Schmoe.
If the healthcare industry were allowed to operate without all the stupid, bureaucratic regulations they face today, and if we got rid of the FDA (which does far more harm to the general populace than good), then the industry would even itself out. Why you may ask? Because if no one can afford healthcare, then no one is going to go to a doctor's office, no one is going to seek that healthcare. The industry would fall flat on its arse. If we let them self regulate, then you would see a dramatic decrease in costs; in order to compete with each other, hospitals (and insurance agencies, which are operated in the same kind of overly bureaucratic conditions) would have to cater to the SICK instead of to the government. Radical idea, I know!!
And as far as "social benefits" go:
Welfare: If private charities wanted to set up in order to help those less fortunate, more power to them. They may actually be able to have some guidelines about who gets the money and under what circumstances. And they can do that, since they are privately funded. (I have personally seen a man at a grocery store trying to sell his WIC stamps for alcohol money (when asked, he readily confessed), don't you dare say it's not a broken and shoddy system as it stands).
Libraries: Fail. Most libraries are privately funded, receiving only some federal money. Again. If people were really interested in this service, it would be in their best interest to invest what they could in keeping it afloat. These institutions WOULD NOT disappear.
A wage cap is absolutely appalling. A person deserves the right to keep what he earns, ALL of it. The government has absolutely no place in telling us what we are "allowed" to make. That is utter nonsense.
I like how you say we would have personal liberties. The liberty to keep what we earn. Out the window. The liberty to chose our own healthcare providers. Gone. The liberty to chose where we go to school, for how long, and for what professions. Good Bye. Pretty soon gone is the right to protest openly, the right to bear arms, the right to a fair and speedy trial (or any trial at all), your right to speak how you will without fear of persecution, and eventually your right to own even your own thoughts. Because in the collective of a socialistic society, the individual means nothing when it comes down to the group.
You have this rosy picture of socialism that is NOT REAL. If you are fine with being taxed 50% of your income so that you can be provided with mediocre healthcare, mediocre education, and a mediocre life, fine with me, that is your poorly informed choice. - SasquatchBill, on 11/13/2008, -1/+30I don't think you can attribute the salary of the tops of the company strictly to 'worth'.
My reasons are thus: my dad started his own business 27 years ago. He risked his entire life savings, our family and our home. His income was not purely about 'worth' (though his worth to the company was inarguable) but also about return on risk. You don't take risks if you're not going to get a huge return on them.
My dad made a lot of money. My family is easily in the highest income bracket of my friends, and I went to private schools my whole life. In doing so, however, he created a company that provides good jobs to a couple hundred people. When he was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease, my family was fortunate (and pennywise) enough to have saved to be able to afford incredible healthcare for him while he lived. At his funeral, the church was packed with current/previous employees and business associates, as well as friends and family.
My dad was a good man that made a lot of money. My family has benefited from his risk. The employees of his company benefited from his risk. To reduce his income to what someone else thought was his 'worth,' would be an insult to the risks he took and the rewards he brought to this community. - UpstateNYDemo, on 12/10/2008, -19/+47If only the headlines were true....
- xevidentx, on 11/13/2008, -6/+34what the hell? besides the iraq war ending, these headlines are horrible. who would want a maximum wage????
- SasquatchBill, on 11/13/2008, -6/+32I can't get over how terrible a 'Maximum Wage' idea is.
At first I was thinking "Well, maybe if they capped it at something massive and practically unachievable," but then I realized that in order for it to restrict only those that are completely idiotically wealthy and not your good Small Business owner... it'd have no value anyway.
Not to mention, that people with that much money would find ways around making their income in other ways.
Ugh, it's just a terrible idea the more and more I think about it. - shakeyjake, on 11/13/2008, -1/+25I was curious about the economics of the spoof. Right now newsprint costs $620 per metric ton. You get about 110 pages per pound and 2205 pounds per metric ton. So it's $620 in raw costs for 242,550 pages.
* A 14 page newspaper * 1,200,000 copies is 16,800,000 pages. 16,800,100/ 110/ 2205* $620
* $42,943.72 in raw material costs.
* Estimate 1 to 1 costs for production, plates, ink, labor, transportation $42,943.72
Estimated Total: $85,887.44 - austria, on 11/13/2008, -2/+25Where's the Sports section? I wanna see how the Yankees are doing...
- Logicexe, on 11/13/2008, -1/+22During 9/11 the Montreal Gazette was handing out free copies of a special mid-day edition that was about a dozen or so pages.
They might have also thought it was some sort of promotional sample. That's what I would have thoughtt, at least until I read the article headlines. - strafefire, on 11/13/2008, -11/+32Whenever someone says to nationalize this, or nationalize that, Socialism can work, things of that nature, I always have to remember that people who say that HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!
The US GOVERNMENT is a raging cesspool of waste and inefficiency! Ask ANYBODY who has ever or still works there! - soupdawg30, on 11/13/2008, -5/+26Idiots who where never able to make more then $10/hr.
- pintomp3, on 11/13/2008, -3/+23i supposed your dream headline would be "world to be run by enron, haliburton, and blackwater"
- eco57, on 11/13/2008, -8/+28Want one?
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZnewQ20yorkQ20 ... - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -5/+23I have to chime in here too. You should read The Road to Serfdom by FA Hayek. He points out that the intentions and goals of European socialists are very noble and decent, but that from an economic perspective, socialism invariably leads to despotism, and the total destruction of human freedom - the exact opposite goal of those who aspire to a better society.
The key to understanding this is private property and property ownership rights. When you own something, you have sovereignty over that thing ... it's YOUR car, it's YOUR house. When the state begins to take ownership of things, they take sovereignty, rights, and eventually human freedom. Do not forget that both Nazi Germany and the USSR were socialist countries with lofty and noble goals.
The other issue is the money. How is all of this going to be paid for? Ultimately, it'll be paid for by Ben Bernacke's magic printing press, which again accomplishes nothing but the devaluation of money, and the destruction of freedom and the surrender of human rights.
At the end of the day, property rights, sound honest money, and free markets are requisites of human rights and human freedom. As unpleasant as some aspects of those things may be, surrendering them in exchange for a Utopian promise has historically been unwise.
So be careful what you wish for. I would strongly encourage you to read The Road To Serfdom by FA Hayek. And read you some Thomas Jefferson. He gave us a lot, and it's only respect for him to know what he thought. He did endeavor to tell you. - nkleffman, on 11/13/2008, -11/+28"Maximum Wage Law Passes Congress
By J.K. Malone
Congress limits top salaries to fifteen times the minimum wage."
Are you kidding? Thats not bright, that's terrifying. Read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged for a glimpse of the world you are promoting. - inactive, on 11/12/2008, -9/+26the Yes Men are my heroes. definitely check out their movie. Great piece on them in the hilarious book Pranks 2, too.
- omgsideburns, on 11/13/2008, -4/+19maximum wage? lol.
- DucoNihilum, on 11/13/2008, -2/+17Corporations are things created by men, men should have control over those corporations- not the government and not men who do not have ownership stakes in these corporations.
- RusskiGuy, on 11/13/2008, -1/+16Description of one set for $150:
FREE SHIPPING! COMPLETE PAPER UNREAD- MINT COND.
I certainly appreciate the "unread" part. That preserves the value! - QsheiK, on 11/13/2008, -2/+16I can't believe the amount of money these are fetching.
- SittingDuc, on 11/13/2008, -5/+19That is a masterpiece
- labizau, on 11/13/2008, -2/+15No, but it partly explains why print media is dying.
- rizzo2008, on 11/13/2008, -8/+21salary cap? Grow up
- SavRabbit, on 11/13/2008, -9/+22PS: I forgot how GREAT the quality of life is in Venezuela and North Korea. :)
- SpectralSounds, on 11/13/2008, -0/+13Damn straight Duco.
Which is why AIG and all of those other banks that my tax dollars are paying for, should have just went under. For some reason, the ***** in charge want things to work both ways. They want private income and socialized losses. It is *****. - PhillyMJS, on 11/13/2008, -6/+18I knew it was fake when the Bush quotes were actually eloquent.
- TequilaCollins, on 11/13/2008, -3/+15It's been done already.
- catbeller, on 11/13/2008, -5/+17Explains why only the viewpoints of the very wealthy tend to be published, hm?
- SavRabbit, on 11/13/2008, -10/+22The liberties you talk about eradicating are not liberties. They are facts of life. I work hard, I go to school and work full time. It's ridiculous to think that my tax dollars, instead of supporting MY well being, go to others who will not (it's not can not) deign to get a real job. Instead they mooch off the system of minimum wage, trusting that people will throw a fuss every decade or so to get it raised.
Over regulation stagnates the quality of life. It completely stops innovation. If you punish people for doing well (this includes ridiculous amounts of taxes on big businesses), they have no incentive for doing well and thus will refuse to do well. Is a society of mediocrity really what you are aiming for? Do you really think everything should be pandered to the lowest common denominator? That we are only as good as our weakest link? Those are NOT the ideas this country was founded on. We were founded on the idea that a day of hard work would pay off for us and ours, not for Billy and Susy down the street. Our nation was built on the idea that people deserve to be rewarded for the work they accomplish, whatever that is. We are a nation of INDIVIDUALS.
The only exception to the slippery slope fallacy is regulation. Once you regulate one thing, you must regulate a dozen others related to it. You regulate one industry, and the it becomes "Unfair" for the other industries that aren't regulated and who have to put up with making choices.
Free market economy and capitalism foster the right to have a CHOICE. Socialism takes this fundamental right away. After your right to a choice is gone, everything else follows soon after (and you end up in a psuedo communistic and/or fascist totalitarian system. Goody!)
Greed is good.
Long live capitalism. - rowjimmy, on 11/13/2008, -3/+14you do know that real unemployment is somewhere near there anyway? they "massage" the numbers (stopped looking for work because you can't get a job? you're no longer unemployed! benefits ran out because you couldn't get a job? you're no longer unemployed! underemployed to the point that you can't take care of your family? you're not unemployed! etc etc etc) to raise confidence but in reality, the employment situation in america is dismal..
- jmuh, on 11/13/2008, -2/+13Early Edition!
- rowjimmy, on 11/13/2008, -4/+15there's a difference between personal property and private property. the former just makes sense. the latter results in a minority owning the means of production, and hence the labor force. i agree with you that it is a complex issue but to claim that we have the free market today is absurd. in my mind, in the same way that statist communism ends in a bureaucratic dictatorship (a la ussr), democratic capitalism ends in corporate nepotism (a la usa). in the former case, the "dictatorship of the proletariat" turns into a dictatorship of the state; in the latter, big business that has a historical advantage (owing to imperialism, etc) buys out democratic govt and realigns the rules of the market in their favor.
- Gorgonzola44, on 11/13/2008, -2/+12"God Hates Believers!"
- mikeyrock, on 11/13/2008, -4/+14more like terrifying the S.A.N.E stuff would destroy our economy
- inactive, on 11/13/2008, -2/+12This newspaper was brought to us by John Titor.
- strafefire, on 11/13/2008, -2/+12Or Google, Apple, Genentech, Toyota, Honda --
I could keep going here.
Also, you are acting as if the government is not acting like Enron, Haliburton, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan RIGHT NOW! - MikiMac, on 11/13/2008, -1/+10you know how much energy you consume by viewing this article on the web?! you should learn to conserve, shut down your computer at once!
- wrillo, on 11/13/2008, -13/+22i think korvan504521 is the idiot.
The fact that he "loves Walmart" and thinks public universities (education) is valued by how much it costs to attend tells me so. Learn a bit about the domestic market before you claim "i ***** love walmart".
You are right about one thing though, public education does suck in most areas. Thats because the american mentality is to watch out for ourselves, and ***** everyone else. Well I have news for you little immature, selfish *****... A prosperous nation comes from a collective nation working together and working hard for generation after generation. There is a bigger picture to it than just YOUR individual well being, what happened to helping out a neighbour?
While you're learning so much new information, why don't you take a political ideologies class to learn about the differences in Democratic Socialism, National Socialism, and Fascism. Shut the hell up until you do! - SavRabbit, on 11/13/2008, -4/+13I see where you are trying to come from, however I disagree on a few points.
There is no link (at least to my knowledge, and I do try to keep up on these things) between high personal incomes and inflation. What causes inflation is the Federal Reserve printing up gobs of money (for which we have no backing system) and playing with interest rates without understanding the full effects. This country has a mixed market system at best. We are in no means capitalistic (a lot less now that we have nationalised banks and soon the auto industry), and a lot of the inflation comes directly from actions of federally regulated entities.
It would be nice if a democratic panel were able to vote in order to protect the individual. But this is just not a fact and is why we are a republic first, then a democracy. Individual rights should never come down to a vote of the masses. Just because the majority voted for it doesn't mean it changes from what can be tyranny into nice flower petals and rainbows. And just flat out, the government doesn't have any place in the economy.
I'm not sure what you mean by "A company should be able to freely obtain wealth as long as the wealth is a part of company capital, not private capital". As long as the company is freely obtaining more capital, doesn't that benefit everyone who works for the company? Why should they not be able to continually make money off of a continually profitable business venture? If left to their own self interest, companies would make the right balance. They would have to, in order to keep customers and to keep their work profitable.
I know "disparity" and "inequality" are nasty words to hear, but they are a fact of human existence. In the thousands of years we have toiled to eradicate them, they have yet to disappear. As long as a person has his individual rights to pursue a meaningful and productive life, even if that means working a hard job for many hours a week, he is in a good place. As long as his rights to choose the work he performs and to find other employers if his turns out not to be the most profitable/safe/nurturing/whatever for him, then he is living a full life. What happened to the idea that you only get out of a situation what you put in? And the hard work of manual laborers is no less than that of the hard work of CEOs and other big wigs. It's not right by any standards to take what the more successful man makes and give it to the poorer man just because of a warped and perverted "robin hood" mentality that we've all grown up with. Both men work to support their own. There isn't anything wrong with that. As long as hard work is rewarded and understood to be as such, I don't see a problem. You can't impose false equality and expect it to work.
I think -
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