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Police to Seal Off D.C. Neighborhoods

dcist.com — Can you say Police State? A controversial new program announced today would create so-called "Neighborhood Safety Zones" which would serve to partially seal off certain parts of Washington, D.C. D.C. Police would set-up checkpoints in targeted areas, demand to see ID and refuse admittance to people who don't live there.

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  • zgoos, on 06/04/2008, -5/+157More info here: http://www.examiner.com/a-1423820%7ELanier_plans_t ...

    I don't live too far from the neighborhood in question. This gives me the willies. I don't know which this reminds me of more, Berlin during the cold war or the Warsaw Ghetto.
    • zavats, on 06/05/2008, -12/+13Just be more specific Warsaw under (Nazi) German occupation.
      • nocash23, on 06/05/2008, -0/+23well i dont think it was referred to as a ghetto at any other time so the time frame is pretty much understood.
        • zavats, on 06/05/2008, -16/+3I’m glad that you have such solid historical background, unfortunately you are a rare breed. My request is keen to keep the context clear for - lets just say others.
        • ShuttleDisaster, on 06/05/2008, -2/+2wow..you're a tool.
      • goofygarber, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2No, the other warsaw ghetto.

        ...
    • NoStoppingUs, on 06/05/2008, -18/+4so ive read through this entire thread, and everyone is criticizing the decision, but no one is saying what SHOULD be done to curb crime/violence in this area...

      hmmm.... *shocker*
      • metalgodz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+14"Something must be done. This is something. Therefore, this must be done." -- Bryan Caplan
      • nylrym, on 06/05/2008, -1/+23A bad solution is worse than none. The type of thinking you suggest here is reactionary and wrong. To name an extreme example, we could probably make headway in the war on drugs by imposing a summary death penalty for possession of pot, but that wouldn't make it right. One is not required to have a solution to a problem in order to criticize a proposed solution, or even adamantly oppose it. This solution does not even really seem to reduce crime and violence, merely contain it to areas where it seems they find it more acceptable. The purpose of such 'safety zones' would be to keep violent criminals out of particular neighborhoods, but that does not address the problem of violent criminals in the area, it just reduces mobility and liberty. We are are a nation which values personal liberty, and that entails some risk.
      • itsthebrod, on 06/05/2008, -1/+35Here's an idea to curb violence: relax the DC gun laws that never worked in the first place. DC's murder rate went UP after their handgun ban. Perhaps if you let citizens of the area defend themselves, criminals would be a little more apprehensive before robbing/murdering people. As of now DC is ruled by those with guns, which after all the gun laws, are the criminals.

        Gun laws DO NOT WORK because criminals DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW!
        • insertAliasHere, on 06/05/2008, -0/+10"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

          -Robert A. Heinlein
      • wuxia, on 06/05/2008, -12/+5Better idea. Do this to every street in every city in the USA that is named 'Martin Luther King'.
        • LocalDocal, on 06/05/2008, -0/+0Late Advice: Obscure Chris Rock references will get you dugg down.
        • MonexFRAUD, on 09/17/2008, -0/+0You should probably think about investing in gold and silver in these troubled times. Gold and silver can be a good hedge against economic volatility as long as you're not doing a leveraged trade. You may wish to invest in the gold ETF (GLD) or the silver ETF (SLV) in a non-margin account. This is the least expensive way to invest. If you feel a need to to take delivery of your metals be extra cautious about who you buy from. Check the Better Business Bureau for complaints, ratings, and adviseries. Also check RipoffReport.com for complaints and read how or if they were handled. At http://www.monexfraud.com all the information you need about Monex Deposit Company is conveniently gathered in one place. Monex is the worst company you can buy precious metals from so do yourself a favor and don't do it. Go to http://www.monexfraud.com and you'll see what I mean!
      • RationalXubrnce, on 06/05/2008, -2/+5 To have a better solution we would have to admit what the problem is and no one is about to go there.
      • rkbabang, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9How about starting by giving people in DC their 2nd Amendment rights back. Or put more precisely stop violating their already existing 2nd Amendment rights.
    • JohnnyXmas, on 06/05/2008, -0/+22I think its more frightening that you live right near there, and had to find out about all of this from Digg, instead of your municipality.
      • zgoos, on 06/05/2008, -1/+6First I heard of it was from the DCist article cruelsommer linked to. The examiner story hit before the official announcement from Chief Lanier. There's plenty of things I have a problem with here, but lack of transparency isn't one of them.
        • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Well, it ought to be, even if it's not your primary concern.
      • futureb, on 06/05/2008, -3/+7i live near dc and a few nights ago we had like a "black helicopter" moment. helicopter randomly shows up and circles low over my neighborhood for about 20 minutes (LOUDLY) shining its lights on all the houses & up-down the streets. there were no police on the streets at all. i called and complained and they said "don't worry we were dealing with a stolen car situation." too bad that happened 3 miles away and they should have been searching with patrol cars anyway. not buying it.

        anyway, point being we already live in a police state when you can get awakened at 300 am for no reason and have an aircraft shine a light in your window FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION. then you're offered little justification for having your privacy invaded. don't worry YOU were doing nothing wrong, right?
        • dougmc, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7Considering that police helicopters cost around $250/hr and up to fly -- and that doesn't include manpower -- using one to look for a stolen car seems excessive. Unless it was the mayor's car, I guess.

          (Though more likely would be that it's not simply a stolen car they're looking for ...)
        • foster53, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Guarantee you that a violent crime was committed and they were looking for the suspects. I live in NJ and the same thing happened. I never saw any helicopters again. The police won't tell you "Oh some guy was selling drugs and killed someone."
        • saranagati, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1This is a normal occurrence here in southern california. Where I live in huntington beach, the police helicopter (i think there's 2 of them now) is flying around all day and will fly over house parties to break them up. It's really ***** annoying and loud.
    • lgfaphile, on 06/05/2008, -0/+37Considering the DC gun ban (which disarms the law abiding citizen) I'd say it was more like the Warsaw Ghetto. One cannot defend oneself in DC.
      • personalj, on 06/05/2008, -0/+11Hopefully the Heller Vs District of Columbia ruling will repeal that, and maybe perhaps the silly NFA will be repealed as well.
        • cawpin, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5I can only hope. Although I don't see that happening because the NFA doesn't actually ban anything, nor does the FOPA-1986. If the government was smart they'd realize that allowing citizens to buy Class III made after 1986 they'd be able to get a lot more license fees from law abiding citizens. I know I'd buy 3.
    • fledderjohn, on 06/05/2008, -15/+6Cut out the alarmist ***** already! Obviously, the residents in these areas cannot get it together because of all the senseless violence. Have any of you lived in an area such as this? Usually, the police are afraid to even patrol these areas! The complacency of the afflicted residents breeds the perceived necessity for the use of tighter police restrictions.

      My biggest concern is that this program will not work. The city has already disabled citizens from protecting their homes and families by banning firearms back in '75. It is quite obvious that such restrictions do not work. Sooner or later, the MPD will find that checkpoints do not work, either, and will suspend the program.

      The only real solution will occur when a serious shift occurs in the homes and communities plagued by violence. When we become involved in taken the neighborhoods back, then there will begin to be a gradual change.

      And finally, if the citizenry cannot get their areas under control, perhaps they deserve to be under tighter security.
    • Matteos, on 06/05/2008, -1/+30I'm sure City 17, uh I mean Washington DC will be safer for it.
      • personalj, on 06/05/2008, -1/+7Welcome to City 17, you have chosen or been chosen to relocate to here. Wait, I don't see any trains or a crowbar wielding MIT graduate, doesn't look like city 17. Perhaps Nova Prospect if you give it some time.
      • foster53, on 06/05/2008, -6/+2Unless you live in D.C., Philly, Camden, or Baltimore, I don't want to hear your garbage. You have no clue what it's like to live in an inner-city. You've probably barely seen any, except maybe from inside your car passing by.

        If the police are the only ones protecting citizens, and more importantly, protecting from total anarchy, then let them setup their roadblocks and check IDs. Otherwise, comparing it to City 17 is out there. Your understanding of history and society is poor; your understanding of video games is slightly better.
        • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3How about Manhattan? It's now the safest (large) city in the United States and while the police are a bit more authoritarian than what you'll find in the suburbs, draconian measures like those referred to in the article were never necessary.
        • foster53, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1Money. Manhattan has A LOT more money than D.C. You can hire more police officers.
        • personalj, on 06/07/2008, -0/+1The NYPD officers are paid far too little to start, this needs to be addressed.
    • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -3/+9Heh there was an episode about that on Star Trek: DS9. It was a 2 part episode where The captain got accidentally shunted back in time. They were stuck in one of these types of cities, except this one was in San Francisco. Long Story short, riots broke out because of over population. People died.

      Our politicians seem to possess the collective brains of a parsnip. They think they can implement these draconian measures on a long term scale, with the fact that it has never proven popular or historically successful (Australia anyone? It was a prison colony that is now a nation). Anyone who dissents with their ideas is a "filthy liberal" or if it is a Democrat/Republican proposal "traitor". Politicians seriously have the collective mentality of a retarded monkey with the policies they sometimes push out. It benefits noone but themselves.

      I don't see it changing anytime soon. The morons are too entrenched in our Govt and are numerous on both sides of the Aisle.
    • yuanzhoulu, on 06/05/2008, -5/+1there are plenty of such places already. like Gurnet Point, MA. i tried to go there on my bike because it looked scenic and ran into two armed guards that said only residents were allowed inside.
      • metalgodz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12Incorrect. Gurnet Point is a gated community, and privately owned, private property. This is also the case with other gated communities. Generally, a right-of-way for public utilities and emergency services is written in order to provide legal ability for the providers of these services to be on the private property when necessary, and without receiving prior written permission.

        Blocking off city streets is entirely different.
        • cawpin, on 06/05/2008, -2/+5Actually, even gated communities are public. They cannot deny you entrance if they have streets which are public.
        • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2key word here is "privately owned" which the streets most likely were as well.
        • mllawso, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I just jump the fence.
    • RealHyperX, on 06/05/2008, -9/+5Another move by democrats to bring us closer to Socialism. Great job oh great democrats!!
      • DCesque, on 06/05/2008, -3/+5What does this have to do with democrats? Its a stupid move by our idiot police chief Cathy Lanier. The population of DC is 90% democrat and we're all freaking out about this as much as everyone else.

        Next time you're going to say something stupid, don't.
      • flameboy, on 06/05/2008, -2/+4Democrats? Socialism?
        Do you even know what those words mean? Go post somewhere else, retard.
      • OriginalLucid1, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2Last time I checked, democrats ran DC, and have for as long as I have been alive.
      • mllawso, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1Another move by "people-wearing-suits"to bring us closer to Socialism. Great job oh great "people-wearing-suits"!!
    • orxor, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8Ihre papiere bitte. Schnell, schnell!!!!!!!
    • ersnyder, on 06/05/2008, -3/+5Police state? But, DC is not a state.
      • cadmiumpaint, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3the term has nothing to do with statehood.

        American Heritage Dictionary -

        police state
        n. A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.
    • r3negadeX, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4Fly your helicopter in and get a 6-star wanted level!
    • AllyOfReason, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1You should make an "am I being detained?" video like the guy who did one for the border patrol check point.

      That was classic.
  • metalgodz, on 06/04/2008, -6/+24Posted it up when I saw the Examiner link this AM.
    http://digg.com/world_news/DC_Police_Chief_Plannin ...
  • DonWigler, on 06/04/2008, -3/+162"Attorney General Peter Nickles actually said that measures of this sort have "been used in other cities.” Which cities are those, Mr. Nickles? Warsaw?" So funny, So sad.
    • 0Xonox0, on 06/05/2008, -1/+45“I think they tried this in Russia and it failed,” - Thats from the original article that they link to.
      Oh, and of course its been used extensively in IRAQ. Or looking historically, I believe the NAZIS had a similar program to this.
      • rex84, on 06/05/2008, -1/+6Don't forget Israel and Palestine.
      • sodoh, on 06/05/2008, -1/+0Shhhh you can't mention nazis! It means you automatically loose any rational argument!
        • Qeveren, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Not if you're thinking of Godwin's Law, it doesn't.
      • djohnmalkovich2, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1It failed only because people there won't put up with this crap and know how to stand up for their rights.
      • bono4u, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1>"believe the NAZIS had a similar program to this"
        i wouldn't call it a program it was more a try to structure society in a way what the regime thought would be best to control the people.

        two german phrases during the nazi regime were

        "Gau"(area, district)
        an area controlled by mixture of military, police people who were strongly linked with the NSDAP which was the german nazi party.

        and "Blockwarts'"(block warden, wonk)
        a person who has an eye on all people in the same building, spy's on them and gives the information to the SA which is nearly the same as the Homeland Security.
    • Abomonog, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9I know of one place in America where the police did do this. Laurel Florida. When I lived in Venice the police were totally closing off Laurel on the weekends. I don't know how long it lasted but I know it ended sometime shortly after 9-11.
    • yuanzhoulu, on 06/05/2008, -2/+6instead of blocking access to towns we should devote one state, say idaho, just for rowdy people in there and not let them out. they have enough potatoes to live. they can figure out their own economy. then the rest of the country can enjoy happy dandy people who are always fun to walk around with.
      • howpeegoo, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7I'm not sure if I should make the comparison to Australia or Ireland.
      • dreamlayers, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2I've read about that in fiction. There's Coventry in Robert A. Heinlein's Revolt in 2100 and Hell (previously known as the state of Mississippi) in Robert Anthon Wilson's Schrödinger's Cat trilogy.
    • Higgins, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7They did it in NY under Giuliani.
      • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2*****. That destroys my argument, posted a little above.
    • Arkons24, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Gated communities.
    • whatsupimphil, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1New York, according to the Washington Post
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
  • jaymzdean, on 06/05/2008, -4/+268"I believe that we must give up our liberty fer freedom."
    ~too many ***** idiots
    • Minarchian, on 06/05/2008, -2/+64"I believe that we must give up our liberty fer freedom."

      Small correction:

      "I believe that we must give up our liberty fer safety."

      There....that's better :)

      And you're exactly right. Way too many people are clueless as to what liberty is and what the Constitution represents. It's truly sad and makes me worry what kind of country my kids are going to end up with.
      • waxoff, on 06/05/2008, -1/+11You forget, Stephen Colbert said D.C. is not a part of the United States. People living in the district are not citizens. So, the Constitution does not apply to D.C.

        http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos. ...
        • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9Then there are no citizens to 'protect' as it were, and this action is equally unwarranted.
        • waxoff, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4@PeppermintPig
          True, but while the residents there are not Americans they are citizens of D.C. Who are we to dictate to other lesser countries run their police states? Also, Papa Bear came out in defense of this, so I am for the police state. USA! USA! USA!
    • blackbeardtron, on 06/05/2008, -2/+66"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
      -Benjamin Franklin
      • AbsolutZero, on 06/06/2008, -2/+1Sorry man, hate to break it to you but the DC residents already gave up the Liberty of the 2nd amendment. When the gun ban went into effect in DC, the crime rate tripled practically over night.

        To the people saying this is a stop-gap solution. Nobody in DC wants this for anything more than being a quick stop-gap until a better answer can be found. But for now, the incredible crime can not be ignored.

        It's not just Ward 5 that's affected, this is leaking into all of the other wards as well. Gangs are coming into well-off neighborhoods and robbing homes and people pretty much at will.
    • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -2/+5http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/Freedom
      Note that the last entry is Liberty. So in giving up one you give up both. Wow politician rhetoric is getting more retarded by the day.
  • whoreable, on 06/05/2008, -4/+66"But every now and then, I wonder if the gate was put up to keep crime out or to keep our ass in"

    Cee-lo Green from the song Cell Therapy
    • WTFppl, on 06/05/2008, -0/+13"Who's that peekin in my window? POW, no-body now"
    • slashiusslay, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3"They say that our community is so drug-free, but it don't look that way to me."

      Thank god other people thought of this song when they read this too! Very appropriate.
    • ndorox, on 06/05/2008, -0/+6Awesome quote. Here I thought no one else still remembered the Goodie Mob truths!

      "But ya'll don't wanna hear the truth so I'm a lie to ya, make it sound fly to ya..."
  • tomh218, on 06/05/2008, -10/+46But if the police are watching us, we'll be safe from the terrorists!
    • Minarchian, on 06/05/2008, -1/+28Dem terrsts er everywhar!!!
      • atticus8, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3You think you know, but you have no idea. True story:
        So I was sick with a cold last week and I drove over to CVS to pick up some cans of Campbell's chicken soup, my usual "sick food". When I got home, I sat down with a steaming bowl of soup in front of the computer to digg a few things, but upon tasting the soup I knew something was terribly wrong. The soup tasted distinctly Islamofascistic. So I opened up several more cans and, sure enough, what do I find? An entire al-Qaeda cell lying in wait.... plotting.... scheming. I opened up several more cans and found all the WMDs that we were supposed to find in Iraq, floating in broth and surrounded by carrot chunks. There was no caloric or fat-content data to be found on the nutritional panels on the cans... only passages from the Quran. "Oh my exclusively Christian God", I thought, "The terrorists really ARE winning!" A paralyzing fear entered me then, a fear which kept me from opening any more cans, for what further horrors would lie within? I am now terrified of my cupboard area in general and the sight of it makes me go incontinent.

        The take-away lessons from my horrific experience:
        1) For our own good, we must all live in permanent fear, even of household items, for they might be harboring terrorists. The terror alert level might currently be at orange, but let's all behave as if it were fire-hydrant red. Let's crank it to 11.
        2) The only way to assuage our fears is to give our leaders and police forces autocratic powers and total authority over us so they can keep us safe 'n' snug. Sealing off neighborhoods is a good start, but ever more must be done, which leads me to...
        3) The Campbell's soup company is a front for a terrorist distribution system and it must be destroyed immediately before anyone has any time to think logically about it.
    • bentman78, on 06/05/2008, -18/+6It's not to watch terrorists, read the article. It's because the areas have the highest crime rates in the area. I live in the DC Metro area and would never step foot into the neighborhoods with checkpoints. We have some of the nighest murder rates in the US (despite the complete gun ban...a different issue in and of itself).

      This is to stem the higher than usual rates of murder, burglary and drug usage in the area, not to look for terrorists.

      You fail...
      • NoStoppingUs, on 06/05/2008, -12/+3its true. apparently none of these conspiracy trolls have ever lived in DC before..
        • WTFppl, on 06/05/2008, -1/+9I stopped in DC once, what a dump! Go figure, the most corrupt place in the nation has some of the worst people living there!
      • AlekNovi, on 06/05/2008, -1/+13Mmmm, i think he was being sarcastic man.
      • Observant1, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1if the GOOD people had guns those crimes wouldnt be happening in the first place.
    • yuanzhoulu, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9the police themselves are the terrorists some times. i wish police here weren't so ***** intimidating to innocent folk and just did their jobs.
  • mr5150, on 06/05/2008, -7/+49Who would have thought Alex Jones was right for a change?.....should i still think of him as a nutter?
    • DuneChild, on 06/05/2008, -18/+5Yes, you definitely should think of him as a complete whacko. Amazingly enough, a group of really smart people are powerless against a sea of really stupid people. President Bush did not win two terms because of a vast conspiracy, he won because enough people bought his *****. They're just carrying it to the next step now, because each of the previous steps seemed reasonable. It's called the slippery slope, and we better get some traction soon or we're in deep *****!
      • tinfoilhatboy, on 06/05/2008, -6/+6lol thoese dumbass americans voted Bush in twice how dumb can you get.. bet they would vote him in a thrd time
        • diggitydoc, on 06/05/2008, -12/+3and yet you couldn't even spell his name....
        • tinfoilhatboy, on 06/05/2008, -6/+8ohh waaa waa i must be really stupid because i missed the B in Bush while i was typing..

          im really good at spelling 4 letter words.. look

          *****
          heres another one
          youu
      • RationalXubrnce, on 06/05/2008, -1/+9Americans are getting ready to vote for either McCain or Obama so it looks like we haven't learned anything.
      • PhreakMac, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4Really? Is that why people are going to jail in Ohio for election fraud?
        Hmmmm let me think nothing wrong with the voting but people are going to jail for it?
      • Snowdizzle, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I agree there is AMPLE evidence that it was NOT a legit election. Check your facts people.
    • BoneheadFarker, on 06/05/2008, -1/+22Yes...just a very accurate nutter...
    • klax89, on 06/05/2008, -3/+5No
    • fuzzmeister, on 06/05/2008, -0/+16You should listen to what he is saying, use logic, and _then_ decide he is a nutjob. Don't dismiss anyone out of hand, but feel free to dismiss them once you examine their logic (or lack thereof) a bit.
    • blast_flame, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1Yes, except when he's talking about the rising police state. Go into "he's a nutter" mode when he starts talking about the bohemian grove or his views on transhumanism...
      • siszam, on 06/06/2008, -3/+2Or research Bohemian Grove and transhumanism to find out the Alex is right there too.
        • blast_flame, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I have done extensive research on transhumanism and Alex is wrong there.
    • DestroyFascism, on 06/06/2008, -1/+1AT least he gives a ***** and 9/10 times is Correct! I can see he has a backbone. Allot of Americans just jump up and down and squeal or act like door mats. "oh its the president!!! Quick grovel like you mean it!"""....
  • jtscira, on 06/05/2008, -3/+82WOW

    "Papers Please !"
    Col. Klink
    • texpundit, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9I know nothingk! I seeee nooothingk!
    • EgaoNoGenki, on 06/05/2008, -7/+2Just build Kobans in every rough neighborhood there is. Japan is well ahead of the United States in many things, including the presence of Law Enforcement.
      • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2yes with their fascination of weird monsters raping girls and all.
    • rex84, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2Hogan!!!
    • zephyr42, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1God I miss that show.... *fires up utorrent and isohunt*
  • itsthebrod, on 06/05/2008, -5/+103Hopefully the ACLU will intervene and save us from the government, yet again... Sigh....
    • Elliuotatar, on 06/05/2008, -4/+27Yeah right. Rememeber New Orleans, and one town's police blocking the bridge so that people who were desperately in need of food and shelter couldn't leave? Was anyone ever punished for that? Not to my knowledge. they weren't.

      And this doesn't even rank close to that. So they'll get away with this. Mark my words.
    • rex84, on 06/05/2008, -0/+23Don't rely on the ACLU, they're your freedoms, it's your responsibility to save them yourself.
      • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Yeah, but the ACLU is us, just regular citizens. They're not tied to the government or anything, and they provide much needed legal assistance.
        • rex84, on 06/06/2008, -1/+1Yeah, and they don't have any agendas either, right?
    • slashiusslay, on 06/05/2008, -0/+11Sorry, I'm not up to date on American organizations. Would I be correct in assuming that ACLU = American Civil Liberties Union?
    • Elissar, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Don't worry, we're on it, but there's a hell of a lot of this kind of thing going on right now, so it may take awhile to sort it all out.
      • itsthebrod, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2Awesome! Well now that it's covered and I shouldn't worry about it anymore, how is Britney Spears and her custody case?
  • itsgotyou, on 06/05/2008, -1/+25I know I don’t live or work here, nor do I know anybody from here officer. I just wanted to look around and see if there are any houses that I might want to burgle.
    • Goblin, on 06/05/2008, -0/+10Ah, scouting for *prospective* work.
  • rrife, on 06/05/2008, -1/+29Wonder how long until they have "evidence" to show that this program works and has saved hundreds of lives.
  • hakz, on 06/05/2008, -3/+20Is this a joke?
    • fpaudon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2I was expecting something from the Onion as well
  • LastDitchHero, on 06/05/2008, -6/+166Glad to see gun control works so well in DC!!!

    /sarcasm
    • pintomp3, on 06/05/2008, -4/+39the war on drugs has really made our streets safer

      /sarcasm
    • Frostek, on 06/05/2008, -30/+6It would if it wasn't surrounded by a huge country which *does* allow guns.
      • McHoffa, on 06/05/2008, -2/+11funniest comment all day... you are joking? RIGHT??!
      • personalj, on 06/05/2008, -1/+10Criminals will always have guns, even if guns were outright banned tomorrow, do you think criminals would hand them in? Get some common sense, fool. It is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself and your family, I'm sure you don't need guns when that 6"5 220 Pound male is beating the crap out of your daughter/wife.
        • dema, on 06/05/2008, -6/+1That's what you get for being stupid enough to have a kid, or a wife for that matter.
      • Joepoag, on 06/05/2008, -1/+0FU! There's no way Im gunna hand over my guns.
    • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5Hey I feel safer already just knowing that they are walling off the really bad areas.....the property values of the homes outside the walled area of W.C (Walled City) will just become that much more attractive to live in /sarcasm
      • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -1/+6Thanks very insightful. I am one Green/anarchist leaning person who thinks gun control is nuts. It's like people go to great links to show how evil the corporate controlled state is and then say we ought to be defenseless against it? WTF!!!!????
    • junkwheel, on 06/05/2008, -2/+2Gun control is a bad idea. Everyone should be able to have loads of weaponry. It increases safety.
      • willaggs, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1yes it does. I hope you aren't sarcastic.
      • bono4u, on 06/06/2008, -1/+2"It increases safety."
        only if both shooters drop dead after the gunfight
  • nkleffman, on 06/05/2008, -12/+57What goes around comes around. You think we can invade and occupy other countries, destroy their infastructure, set up 'green zones' and it won't come back to get us? This police state will spread, it's just a matter of having the right excuse. The control grid is already in place. Then all the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan will come back here along with the bad habits they picked up to rule over us. *****.
    • bono4u, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1"Then all the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan will come back here along with the bad habits they picked up"
      thats for sure
  • itsthemechanic, on 06/05/2008, -3/+36OK, LETS SEE YOUR PAPERS!!
  • ltchimpo, on 06/05/2008, -17/+226I don't have to tell you things are bad -- everybody knows things are bad. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth... banks are going bust... shop-keepers keep a gun under the counter... punks are running wild on the street and there's nobody anywhere that seems to know what to do. And there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe, our food is unfit to eat... we sit watching our T.V.s while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes -- as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

    We know things are bad; worse than bad. They're crazy! It's like everything, everywhere is going crazy. So, we don't go out anymore; we sit in the house and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller and we say: Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms... let me have my toaster and my T.V. and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything -- just leave us alone.

    But I'm not gonna leave you alone... I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest and I don't want you to riot or write your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians or the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad... you've got to say: I'm a human being -- Goddamn it -- my life has value!

    I want you to get up now, I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up, right now, and go to the window -- open it and stick your head out and yell: I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE! I want you to get up -- RIGHT NOW -- go to your windows, open them, and stick your head out and yell: I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE! Things have got to change! You've got to get mad... you've got to SAY: I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE! Then, we'll figure out what to do...

    • tinfoilhatboy, on 06/05/2008, -27/+4lol i got half way before realizing it was a quote from orwell
      • Balanced, on 06/05/2008, -0/+28I thought it was from the movie Network.
      • tinfoilhatboy, on 06/05/2008, -16/+2same thing lol
        • MsArtGeek, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2might as well be. Ignorance is strength. Move along.
      • rossinio, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9m m mm monsterfail
      • bono4u, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1i thought first it was from 'fight club', then i thought it was from Mike Gravel
    • simg, on 06/05/2008, -1/+39couldn't we just digg your comment and hope for the best ?
    • TheImaginator, on 06/05/2008, -1/+52"...then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me ".
    • NoCt1, on 06/05/2008, -3/+51ITS MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!
      • FreeTalkLIve, on 06/05/2008, -0/+25I hate that damn commercial.
      • ooby, on 06/05/2008, -1/+11Call J. G. Wentworth!
      • Kidtuf, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Do you have annuity that's no longer serving you?

        Well done NoCt1, XD!
      • Clouse, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1damn. you beat me to it.
    • yojiffyskippy, on 06/05/2008, -3/+4/* cue Quite Riot */
    • Shootfast, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
    • WTFppl, on 06/05/2008, -2/+19Buy guns!
      • Hangly, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4Ayup. Could be our last chance.

        Don't just buy a gun, learn to shoot too.
      • badassninja, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I'm going to need guns... lots of them.
    • ender7074, on 06/05/2008, -31/+1Your post is so full of ***** I dont even know where to begin. Here's a piece of advice though. If its so goddamn bad here, GET THE ***** OUT! Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Turning our country into a socialist cesspool is not going to make one iota of difference and, in fact, will make things worse.
      • DryMaltExtract, on 06/05/2008, -0/+20Way to not recognize a fairly famous giant quote douchebag.
      • darksideownedu, on 06/05/2008, -0/+15Or better yet, way to fail at understanding why so many people are upset over this and afraid of what it may mean. This is far too familiar to the kind of ***** both Hitler and Stalin did during their reign, but being the uneducated idiot you are, you didn't know that did you?
      • Drizzit, on 06/05/2008, -5/+4You do know that socialism and Democracy can co-exist. You still vote, congress still makes the laws etc, but everyone shares in the wealth.

        You benefit from hundreds of social programs.

        Food Stamps
        Social Security/Medicare - only reason you're not destitute from paying your parents and grandparents bills.
        Public Schools
        County Hospitals.

        Do not confuse socialism with communism. Our state is more facist than anything lately and our rights and freedoms are being eroded in the name of "homeland security".

        Like that low tax rate 25% bracket. Guess what. We'll be in the 50% bracket in the next decade to pay for bush's mess and we probably still wont have universial health care.
        • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3Yes, but democracy and liberty cannot co-exist.
      • jsmith39, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12Why in a nation founded on unconformity, with rebellion and revolution written into it's founding documents, a country with the ability to adept like no other does the idea of change scare so many?

        I don't want to leave this country when it disappoints me, I want to change the country so that it no longer disappoints me. Telling me to leave if I don't like it here is quite simply the most unamerican statement a US citizen could possibly make.

        Dumb ass... we're supposed to change the things we don't like about this country, destroying that which would hold us hostage is the founding tenant of our once (and hopefully someday future) Great Experiment.
    • Latimer, on 06/05/2008, -19/+6wow, you really think things are that bad? Even with how "bad" things are America still has it good. Try to put some things in perspective buddy. You diggers act like the current American state is the same thing as a third world dictatorship. Get a freaking clue people...
      • decavolt, on 06/05/2008, -1/+12"Get a freaking clue people..."
        Here's your clue: it's a quote from the the movie "Network". This would be a metaphor.
      • ltchimpo, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Latimer: are you ***** retarded? Don't compare America to a 3rd world dictatorship, compare us to the beautiful idea of what America has the potential to become. We're the first world. We're in a whole different league.

        "We deal in illusions, man. None of it is true. But you people sit there day after day, night after night, all ages, colors, creeds. We're all you know. You're beginning to believe the illusions we're spinning here. You're beginning to think that the tube is reality and that your own lives are unreal. You do whatever the tube tells you. You dress like the tube. You eat like the tube. You raise your children like the tube. You even think like the tube. This is mass madness -- you maniacs! In God's name you people are the real thing, WE are the illusion."
        • ltchimpo, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1sorry to say "***** retarded." prolly a little over kill.
      • crichton101, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4I'm tired of people telling me, sure it's bad, but it's better than other places as if that's an excuse for the way things are here. If you don't want change for the better, then sit down shut up, and get of the way of those that do.
        • WTFppl, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I prefure they stand in my way...I'll know who needs to be mowed!
    • Chassit, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8In other words...
      "Get up, Stand up!"
      • greeninoregon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Stand up for your rights!
      • iChaz, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1in other words, stop complaining and make it work for yourself.
    • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -0/+9Latimer must live in the nice part of DC. Or some other rich white neighborhood where he does not see what life is really like. The bubble a rich area creates makes it hard to see the reaility. I have heard that idiotic rhetoric from people generally making 200k plus salaries. Mind you I live in relative comfort myself, but I worked my ass of to get there. I grew up in one of the worst parts of NYC, and I know what a city like that would cause people to do. If the Govt is trying to prevent a Civil war and is bringing the hammer down by cordoning off DC, then by all means do it. They will find themselves with a powder keg of anger. And they will find people are more well armed with illegal arms than they thought. Getting weapons illegally may be hard, but not as hard as getting them legally these days.

      DC will find itself with riots pretty damn quick in the near future if this plan goes into effect.
    • cmw72, on 06/05/2008, -0/+6If you don't have time to watch the original:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9W-smdTVjA

      (It's not a rickroll ... honest)
    • mnemy, on 06/05/2008, -3/+1I hope that was a quote that I'm not recognizing, or we have a tower shooter in the making.
      • KrystollMeth, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1So, if it's a quote, cool, if it's someone who was actually that original, they're going to go on a rampage? WTF kind of logic is that??
    • Avarise, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3btw everybody, thats from a movie from the 70s called the network. word for word. sorry digg, we don't have brilliant speech-writers
      • WTFppl, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1We also have many readers with bad comprehension skills!
        Not directed @ 'Avarise'.
    • iChaz, on 06/05/2008, -3/+1I find this to be a pointless rant of someone who has done themselves a disservice.
    • Harboggles, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2"It's MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW! "
    • DestroyFascism, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I did what you said! My GF came in yelling at me and told me to Shut the F**k Up!
  • hamobu, on 06/05/2008, -2/+56The idea is that we would all be safer if we lived in jails in the first place.
    • solodan1000, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1i know right? We get food, shelter, and all the sex we want!
    • theneubie, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1No, the idea is that is you would just live in jail, I would be safer.
    • bono4u, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1it all depends on the perspective ...

      ... the flat
      ... the marriage
      you live in
      your job , ...

      the human species on earth ^^

      all depends on the perspective, someone surly said:
      "the only prison is made in your head"
  • yourpalOZ, on 06/05/2008, -10/+64I guess if it's successfully they will also do this in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Detroit,New Orleans, St Louis and all the other top violent cites. Can you NAME 5 THINGS OF COMMONALITY IN DEMOGRAPHIC PROFILES in these cites?
    • scordle, on 06/05/2008, -12/+18?? They are big cities with alot of people and alot of crime ??

      /confused/
      • TheSavant, on 06/05/2008, -5/+40Large populations of "not white."
      • arcticblue, on 06/05/2008, -2/+53There's an elephant in this room and no one wants to talk about it.
        • ZxEfR, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2I'LL TALK ABOUT IT --- Not shouting at you just shouting out to the world!!!
        • rawnzilla, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3And it's not pink.
        • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1The Savant seems to want to talk about it. But to play DA, what about NY? We have tons of minorities and fairly low crime. Something else is killing our minor cities.
      • Seemefearme, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4Like you didn't know what he was talking about.
        • scordle, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2I know what he's talking about. I just prefer people to say what they are thinking.
          (BTW, I am white, middle-class, and have lived in both DC and Atlanta.)
    • Ethek, on 06/05/2008, -3/+31Lack of parental role models? Perhaps some type of breakdown in society that has led a high percentage of people that trust to the system for personal welfare? To trust in the system to educate their kids without any responsibility from the majority of other parents? It all goes back to personal responsibility... when people cede that and society starts failing I guess the Government thinks it has to go all out to keep society from falling apart. Welcome to serfdom.
      • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -5/+2Yeah sure and the outsourcing of jobs to China where they use prison labor and the global financial oligarchy financing this has NOTHING to do with our situation? Riddle me this net.libertarian.*****.*****.assholes, if the other country is using prison labor how do we "compete" against it? Answer by turning our own country a vast police state and locking up all the people who are angry about how they have betrayed by BOTH private capital fleeing our shores and the state. The bankers and the big businesses ***** us and we didn't even put up a fight at all but listened to people like you that blamed the victim:

        ""If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

        http://tribes.tribe.net/bankofamericasucks/thread/ ...

        Now the prophecy of the poet Robinson Jeffers is coming true:

        "
        While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity, heavily thickening
        to empire
        And protest, only a bubble in the molten mass, pops and sighs out, and the
        mass hardens,
        I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit, the fruit rots
        to make earth.
        Out of the mother; and through the spring exultances, ripeness and decadence;
        and home to the mother.
        You making haste haste on decay: not blameworthy; life is good, be it stubbornly
        long or suddenly
        A mortal splendor: meteors are not needed less than mountains:
        shine, perishing republic.
        But for my children, I would have them keep their distance from the thickening
        center; corruption
        Never has been compulsory, when the cities lie at the monster's feet there
        are left the mountains.
        And boys, be in nothing so moderate as in love of man, a clever servant,
        insufferable master.
        There is the trap that catches noblest spirits, that caught – they say –
        God, when he walked on earth. "

        http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jeffers1.html

        • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Does anyone in the Libertarian bury brigade have the guts to respond to this using a rational arguments using you know the English language, and not just digg downs? Taps foot, I'm waiting...
    • bentman78, on 06/05/2008, -0/+17They do it anyway. I live in the area, they always randomly stop people and ask "where are you going? What are you doing here?"
      I just tell them what does it have to do with pulling me over. I also ask if there is a problem, and if not can I please go.
    • NCg8r, on 06/05/2008, -3/+48I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but the CORRECT answer is "high levels of poverty". It's not Race, it's Class. The sooner you figure this out and quit hating on brown people, the sooner we will all stop falling for this old trick.
      • nylrym, on 06/05/2008, -1/+19 --I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but the CORRECT answer is "high levels of poverty".

        AMEN! I get so tired of this argument. If you do the math, and control for poverty, crime rates are similar (within the margin of error) between races. The racial issue is a massive straw man.
        (DISCLAIMER: my race is 'mutt')
        • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -0/+15Further, its the viewing of people as classes. Politicians take advantage of poorer people by claiming there are reasons beyond one's control for why they are not prosperous, which is disingenuous because many use this as a reason to justify their own lack of motivation so they buy into that kind of crap.. it leads to the ideas that politicians claim to promote, such as people who do prosper, ie the 'rich people', should be punished for doing so well, and that they should be taxed heavily to 'pay their debt to society'. And if anybody under this spell ever catches on to the rising taxes, the Politicians can point to their political enemies and scapegoat away the costs of their foolish programs.

          I have self worth. I can make decisions for myself. Government, stop taxing me and just leave me the ***** alone!
        • scordle, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1well said
        • aukxsona, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Welcome fellow mutt.
        • yourpalOZ, on 06/06/2008, -1/+1Poverty has nothing to do with this. You can safely walk through the slums of Calcutta and many third world countries where people are starving...but not all of course
          Culture is another issue and has nothing to do with race or color but violent culture seems to prevail with certain peoples who live in these cities...Common think past what TV taught you.
      • XxERMxX, on 06/05/2008, -3/+1While I mostly agree, blacks are at a disadvantage portinaly for embracing the rap stereotypes.
        • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Learn to spell you ignorant cracker. What is "portinaly" did you mean potentially?
      • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2*****. my parents kicked my ass out at 18. ive had to fend for myself. ive been poor as ***** most of those times. yet somehow i didnt devolve into a welfare sucking, chest beating, drug pushing jackass. i got job and worked at progressing and i did. and i did it while living one of the not nicer parts of st. louis. stop making excuses for these lazy *****.
    • fuzzmeister, on 06/05/2008, -2/+15High levels of violence can't be attributed to the fact that those cities are largely black, it can be attributed to that they are largely poor. A poor white man will commit crimes just as much as a poor black man if put in the same environment, poor white people just tend to live in rural settings instead of urban ones.
      • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -0/+6And rural areas tend to have less crime due to cost of living.
        • MaynardJK, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5That and everyone is armed to the teeth. I grew up surrounded by poor people in the sticks of Montana. Nobody would mess with you or your stuff because it was a good way to get shot.
      • Rysac1, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1source?
    • isaactwito, on 06/05/2008, -1/+7Let's not get ahead of ourselves! Poverty has a large hand in it, but the poor will do much better if properly educated, this is a fact. If our despicable government would throw more than a few bread crumbs at education, then so much of this would be resolved. I know the poverty issues are a major concern, but the collective we has to help the poor help themselves, this can't be done through handouts.
      • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1"this can't be done through handouts"

        Are you sure about that? Sweden does pretty well in having a motivated, educated, tech savy population by "handing out," free education through the post grad level to those who qualify. Just because Rush and Faux told you "hand outs" don't work doesn't mean it's true and in fact the evidence from Europe contradicts your assertion.
        • Rysac1, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1by handouts I believe he means welfare
      • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but the public schools suck. So many kids don't give a ***** about education, what can you do? You can't force them to apply themselves, right?
      • yourpalOZ, on 06/08/2008, -0/+1If you took all the money in USA and equally divided it to all I think in 1 years time the rich would be Rich again and the poor would be again. And the politicians of course will be million ares......Many wealthy people aren't financially rich because they wanted money. Many are just obsessed with what they do for a living and really enjoy it. Some are obsessed with money and prestige in neurotic fashion.
        So lets say different dog breeds are well...different and Horses of racing kind don't pull plows so well and plow horses ain't too fast. We all know there nothing to fear about a Golden Retriever or lab. But we do keep away from Dobermans, Pit Bulls and the like. Is this discrimination or common sense? Are some animals more violent and aggressive while others like horses more docile?
    • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -4/+4This would not be a problem if they taxed people equally. 10 percent tax for everyone. It is still a hell of alot less than what we pay now, but everyone pays the same percentage of their income.


      Also Warsaw was a city that was blocked off too. Except it was'nt in the US.
      • Rysac1, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2a flat tax? that is every rich man's dream and every poor man's nightmare
    • bigdogbts, on 06/05/2008, -8/+1Whoa whoa whoa. I live in St. Louis. Go ahead and ask people what they're doing in my neighborhood (Holly Hills), and if they don't live there, or don't work there, or don't have a good reason to be there, then make them get the ***** out. That might have kept our whoever decided to break in 3 weeks ago and STEAL MY COPPER PIPING. Seriously, have we gotten to a place in this country where I have to worry about not only my personal possessions, but about the building materials in my home? If we are, then fine. Stay out of my neighborhood. If that's what it takes for me and my family to feel safe in our own homes, then ***** your civil liberties. They're not nearly as important to me as my right to be safe.
      • greeninoregon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I've heard about crackheads stealing scrap metal and piping to buy meth. some crackheads stole a metal bench that was bolted into the wall at my work. crazy.
      • Orion682, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4You seem to misunderstand: You don't have a right to be safe; you have a responsibility to safeguard yourself.

        The government's job is not to babysit you, it has only gained that through a demented sort of mission creep. You want to feel safer? Put up a motion sensing spotlight at the entrances, so that everyone can see you coming at night. Not good enough? Buy a camera and record whoever left with the piping overnight. Take personal responsibility.

        Those things I mentioned are part of your freedoms. Your freedom to safe guard yourself and your loved ones. Yielding that freedom, that RIGHT, to others only causes problems.
      • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1i hear that i spent the last couple years in the state streets in stl and i can count on one hand the number of nights i didnt hear gunshots.
        • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2"***** your civil liberties. They're not nearly as important to me as my right to be safe."

          As it said in one of those Star Wars films, "thus the Republic dies to great applause." Thanks ***** and screw YOU MY freedom is worth more than your copper pipe. If you really don't understand that, then you epic fail in reading the Constitution and understanding what it means to be an American citizen.

          You ought to move to China if economic security means more to you than freedom. I hear they are working on killer surveillance systems over there.

          Good luck and PLEASE read the Constitution and Bill of Rights and try to understand what they mean. THANKS!!
        • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1you epic fail in using the reply button
    • orphanofamerica, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Actually, they're already doing it in Baltimore. I was driving through a fairly bad part of town last summer when all of a sudden I saw manned police barricades with "safety zone" written across them. There were about two blocks of brand new really nice townhouses with new cars in front of them inside the barrier. It was total ghetto otherwise for blocks and blocks in all directions. It was very surreal at the time. I guess I'm not really surprised the idea is gaining popularity. :/
    • wanderlost, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1I think the common thing between those cities is they are all ran by Liberals / Democrats. I'm trying to understand why people think MORE government handouts will bring people out of this situation. I'm trying to rationalize why people think that government interference in private lives is strictly a Bush / Conservative way of thinking. Let's be real people - governments are all the same. Obama will not save you. All of the cities you mentioned are in States which are a Democrat strong-hold. Obviously, these tactics aren't limited to just Bush and his cronies.

      Big Governement interfering in our lives is not good - no matter what party you belong to. I lived in Michigan for 30 years - you don't need any more evidence than that state to understand that Big Government ran by liberals does not work. Granholm and all of her cronnies in the legislature have ruined Michigan for so many.

      /preparing to get attacked for perceived negative portrayal of Obama/

      • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Michigan went way downhill during the Engler years, hmmmm....

        http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n1_ ...

        Plus selling SUVs WAAAAAAAYYYY past their prime didnt help. Can you say private corporation short term profits over long term vision *****? I knew you could... Oh eek you mean the management of a private capitalist organization can make a mistake, quick mobilize the Libertarian bury brigade cant let that info slip out.

        I am not great fan of helpless Dimocraps who are also corporate sock puppets BTW, but to blame Michigan's serious problems which have been years in the making solely on Granholm is just ludicrous. The sort of structural problems the rust belt cities have don't develop over the time span of a couple years, more like a couple of decades. Plenty of blame for short sighted thinking to go around here. Can you say massive advertising campaigns for poorly designed tippy inefficient SUVS made with many outsourced parts from exploited third world workers? I knew you could...

        Ypsilanti resident BTW, pissed? You bet...
        • mrraven200, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1p.s. Don't give me that crap about how the market "demanded" SUVs what happened is the auto company MANAGEMENT figured out that they could sell a vehicle with leather interior, a fancy stereo, and plenty of CUP HOLDERS on a cheap to manufacture truck chaises that was exempt from fuel and safety regulations and then they marketed the hell out of it using the most horrendous psychology attacks on peoples insecurities to sell these monstrosties to suburban cubicle workers who were worried their office soft hands had emasculated them and were told to compensate with a 6000 lbs pseudo truck:

          "To the engineers, of course, that didn't make any sense, either: if consumers really wanted something that was big and heavy and comforting, they ought to buy minivans, since minivans, with their unit-body construction, do much better in accidents than S.U.V.s. (In a thirty-five m.p.h. crash test, for instance, the driver of a Cadillac Escalade—the G.M. counterpart to the Lincoln Navigator—has a sixteen-per-cent chance of a life-threatening head injury, a twenty-per-cent chance of a life-threatening chest injury, and a thirty-five-per-cent chance of a leg injury. The same numbers in a Ford Windstar minivan—a vehicle engineered from the ground up, as opposed to simply being bolted onto a pickup-truck frame—are, respectively, two per cent, four per cent, and one per cent. ) But this desire for safety wasn't a rational calculation. "

          **************

          But at the reptilian level they think that if I am bigger and taller I'm safer. You feel secure because you are higher and dominate and look down. That you can look down is psychologically a very powerful notion. And what was the key element of safety when you were a child? It was that your mother fed you, and there was warm liquid. That's why cupholders are absolutely crucial for safety. If there is a car that has no cupholder, it is not safe. If I can put my coffee there, if I can have my food, if everything is round, if it's soft, and if I'm high, then I feel safe. It's amazing that intelligent, educated women will look at a car and the first thing they will look at is how many cupholders it has. "

          http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

          There was NO sudden grass roots demand for SUVs it was rather artificially created to line some fat cats pockets with short term profits, period, end of story. Consumers were sold of bill of goods about "safety" using deliberate LIES and now it has come back to bite the auto companies on the ass. I don't cry at all for the execs who made these bad decisions but I do cry for the autoworkers and consumers who were sold a bill of goods and are left paying the price of losing their homes in foreclosures while the execs that made the bad dcsions get 100 million dollar "golden parachute" severances on top of their multi million dollar a year salaries.

          Any honest "conservative" ought to bow their heads in shame at such sleezy goings on. In sum net.libertarians.assholes are wrong private institutions CAN ***** up and its the little guy left holding the bag while they escape all accountability, despite accountability being such a large "conservative" talking point.

          Anyway read this article by Malcom Gladwell author of Blink, and think about it, before responding. THIS is why living in Michigan SUCKS right now, don't try to blame it on poor black people.
        • wanderlost, on 06/06/2008, -0/+0I don't agree that it went way down hill during the Engler years... Besides, Engler was a Republican and the Legislature was extremely Democrat. I think even you could agree that the situation has gotten WORSE not better using Ms Granholm's agenda.

          Did you see the Free Press Article about the job situation last week? UofM Economist report requested by the State showed that Michigan won't employ as many people as last year until 2022. Ouch.

          You missed my point, Big government isn't limited to Bush and his band of a$$hats. It's on both sides of the isle. If people think that Obama and the Democrats will change that - I think they are mistaken. I used Michigan as an example because Jenny and her pals made the government BIGGER and WORSE after they assumed control.

          I worked for Ford for almost 10 years. They did just fine producing the Trucks and SUV's. Their issue was paying for past contracts to the UAV, including unreasonable healthcare, etc. Look up the sales numbers on the F-series - did they rely on that too long? I believe that was the number one selling vehicle for almost 25 years. The Explorer was number one in it's category as well - just because that category was declining doesn't make Ford stupid.

          Mulhaly (sp?) has the company on the right track. They still need to shed some dead weight, but they are doing it. They have the newest line-up in the industry, and a good dealer network. If you think Ford and GM are the reason Michigan is in the Toilet, I think you are mistaken. Name one other serious industry Michigan has? They have none... and until they get rid of all of the taxes, that won't change.

          I don't think you and I disagree on much! The Republicans have sold out their party (Bush is an asshat), but I think people are wrong if they think the Dems are better.
      • mrraven200, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1No one said the Democrats are good, though in my opinion they are not left enough. Sweden for example had an 5% growth rate with an essentially socialist economy last year. Further that 5% benefited EVERYONE in the society not just mainly the top .0000% as happens here with economic growth. Something to think about the next time you listen to Rush or O'Reilly or other MSM liars, I further firmly disagree with letting the management of the auto companies off the hook. Why do you think Honda and Toyota are eating the American auto companies lunch? Really it's quite simple they make a higher quality product that gets better gas mileage, period, end of story. Honda and Toyota have been eating the big 3s lunch for years and now with 4/gallon gas is the straw that broke the camels back and SUV sales are down over FIFTY percent in the last year. The management is getting paid the big bucks to do research on things like declining oil supplies, and the effect of war on oil prices and they epic failed to compensate. There is no one to blame but the stupid, short sighted, profit mongering upper management who was making a cheap high profit item that avoided both fuel and safety regs by bolting a car interior onto an old school pickup chaises, unfortunately hey are the ones who will NOT pay the price for Michigan's decline as they float away on the gentle winds of their golden parachute.

        p.s. Were you a line worker or management? And no I am not an auto company worker EVER thankfully, but I do know what time it is with auto company managements ***** ups living less than 5 miles from Willow Run.
        • wanderlost, on 06/09/2008, -0/+0Most people outside of the industry would tell you that there is nothing wrong with the auto industry. Most car companies are profitable, and the problems that are befalling the Big 3 are self-inflicted. Honda and Toyota had higher profits because they have no legacy costs. No pension to pay, health care costs that are 30% less than the Big 3, and lower hourly rates for their employees.

          Honda and Toyota are also much smaller than the Big 3. Their overhead is less, and they have a smaller vehicle line-up. They do not produce vehicles for every segment of the market. Now that the Big 3 have "woke up", you can see the changes they are making - reduce number of platforms, reduce staff, and change UAW contracts to be consistent with the modern economy.

          I totally disagree with you on the subject of SUV's. The market always drives the car industry. It may be slow to react, but not that slow. SUV's is only one (small) segment of the production annually. Explorers and Tahoes, etc were not what drove car companies to the edge of disaster. It was the legacy costs.

          "BIG Trucks" as you call them are still the top selling vehicles in the world - in the world. People like trucks. It's not grass-roots, it's reality. People have boats, RV's, snow mobiles, motorcycles, and other toys that need to be pulled. American's weigh 300 lbs in some cases and simply can't fit comfortably in a small car. It took over 20 years for any vehicle to displace the F-150 as the #1 selling vehicle, and it just happened last month. Was it really a conspiracy by the execs to pull the wool over your eyes for that long?

          As I mentioned earlier, the market has changed. People will own "commuter cars" like the Focus, Cobalt, etc for every day driving. Instead of commuting to work in their truck (which they have to own out of necessity for their hobbies), they'll keep their truck a few extra years and get a small commuter car instead. I'm speaking of course about most americans. There is still a HUGE number of trucks and SUV's sold because people's jobs require it - contractors, plummers, landscapers, etc.

          I was not a line worker. I was in purchasing. I WISH I was a line worker. Nothing worse than being on the launch team for a new vehicle and having to be there for 15 hours waiting for the car to come down the line and getting SALARY pay while the hourly guys were getting time and a half or even double time. Most hourly guys I knew made about $20k per year more than I did - same bonuses, same health care. Granted they had to work more hours, but it makes you wonder why you went to school.
    • atticus8, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2What revelations! You have discovered at long last that it is poor people that are convicted for the vast majority of violent crime, and that the poor of this country just happens to be disproportionately black. Could it be because black people are inherently criminal, my budding little racist? While your brain might naturally be going for that explanation, I want you to first do a little mental association of your own. Quick, what do the 17th, 18th, and 19th century all have in common?
      That's right! They were all centuries in which certain white and powerful Americans found it a good and satisfying business to kidnap various hundreds of thousands of Africans, pack them up like little chained sardines in a soon-to-be-*****-lined cargo hold for a three month journey to an alien land, at the end of which was the prospect of having your family separated and being whipped and beaten while you produce much of the food and wealth of the very totalitarian system that "employs" you, always knowing that being chained, raped, and treated like something less than a dog was your future, your children's future, and on and on.
      I know that a racist like you will probably run to one of those old chestnuts about slavery: "Hey man, get over it." But believe it or not, having an organized series of reprehensible, immoral crimes happen to your people for centuries can really limit your housing options, which sometimes means having to move into the poor (and thus crime-ridden) side of town.
      Rosa Parks just died. Martin Luther King could still be an old man today if it wasn't for that whole "got shot for striving for racial equality" thing. Hate to burden you, OZ, but that ol' slavery thing still matters... still affecting things. We are truly sorry no white man paid us for our old efforts, and we are sorry that that means we are generally poorer than, for instance, the children of those plantation owners. We are sorry that poverty often leads to the conditions that cause crime. We are that rain gets you wet.
      And on behalf of all black Americans everywhere, I promise we will try harder to get a bigger cut of the profits next time we are enslaved.
  • Spawn2105, on 06/05/2008, -4/+46Immunity for Telecoms who listen in on conversations, intercepting email for the sake of protecting the country from terrorism, now this...
    Whats next, curfews for all citizens? Fear mongering or "protecting the masses from criminals" should not be a viable justification for allowing the government to go ahead with such things. There are other options for controlling the rate of crime without "locking" up the citizens.

    Freedom, not a police state split into zones!
    • ZxEfR, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2"NSZ's" for us all!!!
    • DeFex, on 06/05/2008, -2/+9I think you are a bit confused about the word "freedom" in the modern sense, the freedom that bush & co love is not your freedom. It is the freedom of corporate "citizens" to rip you off, sicken, injure or kill you without worrying about the government harassing them about it.

      • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -0/+6Mercantilism.

        Stop enabling government.
        • tech42er, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Damn right. Corporations friendly with the government are incredibly dangerous. We need to destroy the government's power so we can live in a free society, instead of one ruled by large corporations allied with the government.
        • PeppermintPig, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I hope you have the freedom to choose liberty here and now, else you'll likely see an endless procession of slavery.
    • tony23, on 06/06/2008, -1/+1Umm, you are aware that the President & Congress don't run the city of Washington DC?

      But, I suppose i shouldn't confuse you with facts.
  • Duositex, on 06/05/2008, -39/+50Wow everyone take off your tinfoil hats for a second and realize that the portions of the city they're doing this in aren't safe for anyone at all. Nobody there has the freedoms most Americans enjoy. No life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness whatsoever because of the violence associated with the drug trade. Would legalizing drugs make it safer? Perhaps. But that's another topic entirely.

    I feel sorry for all parties involved in this case. The police can't win either way. They're either accused of being complacent or oppressive. Someone has to just let them do their jobs and get things cleaned up, and everyone else has to shut up and let them do it. As for the people in the affected areas, it's terrible they live in these conditions but all too often even the innocent refuse to cooperate with law enforcement. What good does that do anyone?

    Fighting fear with fear probably won't work out well, but if it cleans up the streets of D.C. everyone calling it a police state is going to feel a little embarrassed that they waved their libertarian flag a little to quickly.
    • ToadLeg, on 06/05/2008, -8/+30Step 1: Drug Prohibition
      Step 2: Crime Problem
      Step 3: Police State
      ???
      MASSIVE PROFIT
      • MaynardJK, on 06/05/2008, -2/+14"Ban guns" should be between 2 and 3.
        • Monk22, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2except they did that in DC and look where its gotten them
        • MaynardJK, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2@Monk22

          No *****. Why do you think I posted it?
    • cerejota, on 06/05/2008, -13/+4This isn't about tinfoil hats. This is about taxation with out representation (dc is not a state), lack of entitlement, lack of opportunities for developments, and racist, segregationist policies in what really is the northernmost city of the South.

      Race is a factor in the lack of economic entitlement, and when you do not feel entitled, there is no incentive to care. Police state tactics have been implemented in Puerto Rico (a US territory) for almost 15 years, including the permanent deployment of the US National Guard in housing projects, and it has not dented crime one bit. It has increased incarceration rates to unheard off levels.

      Rather than continuing the War on Drugs, which is a war on non-whites, we should be creating the economic entitlement and providing incentives for the growth and ownership that generates and end to crime.
      • bentman78, on 06/05/2008, -2/+14Name those policies you have mentioned. I live in the area and guess what, the DC/Maryland are has the highest rate of college educated blacks in the country, as well as the wealthiest. They aren't even safe in those areas.

        How is the war on drugs a war on non-whites? I thought it was a war on drugs since that's who they're arresting. I know plenty of whites who have done, and got arrested because of drugs. Creating entitlements for minorities based on the sole purpose they're not white is stupid and counter productive.

        Lack of opportunity in DC isn't due to segregationist policies at all. Most of the DC city leadership is black and they run the city. I fail to see what whitey has done there in the past 10 years that is a problem.
        • ender7074, on 06/05/2008, -8/+3You forget, white is wrong no matter what the situation to these idiot libs here. They fail to realize that the first executive responder to New Orleans was a black man... who fled and didnt return for months. But it's Bush's fault. DC is an incredibly dangerous place, run by blacks. When someone steps into start crushing that danger, its infringing on some poor black drug dealer's rights. Its really pathetic the way that we constantly hear that race shouldnt be an issue ever but the libs constantly use it.
    • Borvo22, on 06/05/2008, -3/+4Nice commentary. However, you aren't grasping the depth of what Libertarians actually want, but neither do most "Libertarians."
      • Opiate, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7The funny part is he admitted to the solution, quickly ignored it then proceeded to bash the ones proposing real solutions and then suggests a climate of fear and total authority. Interesting...
    • ZxEfR, on 06/05/2008, -9/+11Listen up PUNK.....you and your gun control cronies caused this problem....so....GET OUTTA MY COUNTRY if you don't like real freedom!
      • ender7074, on 06/05/2008, -6/+11Libs dont want freedom. They want government control over everything.
      • paradexes, on 06/05/2008, -1/+5So do hardcore conservatives. two sides to the same coin. I am proud to be neither. The only Gun Control I believe in is using both hands. Controlling gun trade is like banning alcohol. It will only make those who want it more get it, by other means and the ones who could use it legitimately (self defense) being unable to get it. Die hard conservatives are Despotic in their thinking Hard core liberals for nanny govt are Fascist. A fine line but it is a difference in thinking.

        I think more people need to get out of the divisive thinking that being conservative or liberal puts you in. It is a box. And one that inspires fear and demonnizes the other side. Remember we are Americans. UNITED States Of America. UNITED we stand DIVIDED we fall and all that jazz? Remember that? So stop with the badd ass fearmongering position ("love it or leave it" is a position of fear xenophobes use) that disguises your own insecurities. I can bet you probably hang a set of tennis balls off the back of your pickup too. Another insecurity.
    • Ethek, on 06/05/2008, -3/+19You should never sacrifice liberty for the sake of security. Ive spent more time in these areas that I would have cared too as a Foster Parent for D.C. A military hair cut and a nice car were all that was really needed for me to stand out.

      Under these blockades people will migrate out of the areas and the habits that lead to a breakdown in society there will spread. The slippery slop will be as treacherous as an ice fall. Everyone's freedom will be in jeopardy. Governments job is not to make everything equal here. Its to provide opportunity. To let communities better themselves under their own decisions. Government is denying opportunity with these actions.

      Too much reliance on the government tit is exactly what brought these poor conditions on. People in that area almost entirely subsist with government assistance. Almost exclusively they trust in the 'system' to educate their kids and the attitude becomes take what you can get. It all goes back to parental involvement and personal responsibility. It can't just be one family doing this. It needs to be a majority. It will never happen as long as Government institutions exist as a cop-out option for the families living there.
      • ninjaidd, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4Haven't they been operating checkpoints in DC for a while? I used to live in DC for a bit in around 2003 and I remember coming home late and having to go through check points on at least a couple occasions.

        Aside from the time I lived in DC I've lived just outside of DC my whole life and I've had a lot of run ins with DC police, and they terrify me. In my experience, the officers I've dealt with have been horribly corrupt. They've attempted to search my car for minor infractions (they actually asked to search my car when they pulled me over for failure to wear a seat belt). I've also had at least two officers lie in traffic court during my case. You really can't argue with a judge against the word of a cop.

        Yes, there are a lot of bad areas in and around DC, and something needs to be done. However, personally I am equally worried about the police as I am all the crooks in DC.
      • Ukonu, on 06/05/2008, -6/+4"You should never sacrifice liberty for the sake of security."

        Why? I'm not saying I fully agree or disagree with this point. I'm just asking a simple question: Why? Because a bunch of oft quoted famous people in history said so? It's a lot easier to regurgitate these quotes than to truly consider its implications (not saying you don't, this is a general response). Why do we think we're entitled to everything without the smallest sacrifice?

        I'm saying this as a black resident of the DC Metro area: It's not safe in a lot of these areas. And, TEMPORARILY, I'd rather be "oppressed" by the government desperately trying to resolve a problem than be truly oppressed by rampant, violent criminality. Just the other day I heard a report that 8 people were killed overnight in the area. I'm a lot more worried about that then the police asking for my ID. I understand this can become a slippery slope and true governmental oppression can result. But, I'll temporarily give DC's elected, black leaders the benefit of the doubt and the system can be tweaked and improved as time progresses. I stress the point that they are minorities because it need not be an "us. vs. them" situation. We elected these people because we trust their judgment.

        What we have here is a bunch of armchair activists, digg users, idealists, etc. sitting in the suburbs and failing to recognize the reality of the situation. They love to scream about how we're becoming an 1984-like society or whatever fictional movie this sounds like. But they don't give a damn about the 8 people who got killed last weekend.
        • Ethek, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7Theres not really a short answer but the people who wrote the constitution and made that quote were able to look back on thousands of years of world history. They decided the worst human suffering always occurred with governments moved from free and open to centralized and socialist-facist in how they controlled peoples behavior. They wrote a Consitution that would protect a 49% minority against the 51% majority if it was properly observed. This country is a republic with powers meant to be held by the people and not the government. When people cede freedom to government the 51% majority can vote for the minority to be subjected any way they please and so on down the road to fascism and all of the suffering involved with that.

          I really think that a lack of 'freedom' has hurt areas like DC that have happen to be 99.9% black communities. The outlawing of drugs to 'protect' people from them has created a black market saturated with crime to prop it up. A disproportionate number of minorities are prosecuted with government force. There is just as much drug crime in rural areas. This is just one of the unintentional consequences of the government thinking they know whats best for people. I've made some smart choices in my life. I would love to be able to continue that without stumbling into a police checkpoint on my way to drop off a kid for a parental visit. Who knows what can happen at that checkpoint to find me on the wrong side of some cops temperament.

          Ive seen what happens with a family when a social worker comes in. Lots of these kids need help but sometimes the social worker if in the wrong kind of mood can completely destroy a family that is otherwise functional. Government power should be in check whenever possible. Never cede a thing especially not to people such as police and social workers that can excersize the full power of the state with little accountability until after the fact.

          I would love for things to change in southeast or wherever but Its a cultural one that starts with parents raising personally responsible kids. Not trusting to the schools to teach or instill values. Not trusting to the welfare systems that breed a culture of (need to get what I can) entitlement and resentment at those that 'have'. The weirdest thing I have seen is that most there are extremely offended when someone else calls out thier kids. It can be a constructive thing. Hell I got called out all the time in my home town and my parents would back them and then call me out again at home.

          There are simply some cultural fundamental issues that need fixing that police checkpoints are not going to stop. Those checkpoints will cause a lot of grief and oppresse quite a few people and trash more than a few prospects and lives in the posses (incarceration, suicide ect..). I dare say far disproportional to the one-off murder they might happen stop or delay.
        • Ethek, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1dupe
        • MaynardJK, on 06/05/2008, -2/+4The government doesn't do anything "TEMPORARILY".
      • foster53, on 06/05/2008, -3/+3I absolutely agree with you Uknou. The people on Digg (and yes I'll get dug down for it) constantly take every single attempt to bring order to this country as some kind of fascist move. Governments do oppress and surely there is room for abuse in this case, but let's be serious here: this is because of the rampant violence in D.C. - end of story. And of course, you being a resident of the DC Metro area, should give you a ton more credit than anyone else on this board, but you still get Dugg down.

        I have a question for anyone who happens to read this: What about when the National Guard was called in to protect black students at Little Rock? There was a ton of potential abuse there. You had potential for a police state. You had people with machine guns patrolling the streets. But clearly they were there for the protection of those students.

        The quotes you guys bring to the table from history are misrepresented. It'd be one thing if people were being arbitrarily arrested in the street of D.C., being robbed by the police, and being restricted from assembling - then you have a case. But this is obviously in response to the conditions of the area. But hey, I'm sure that if Ron Paul or Barack Obama ran the country, everything would be perfect. It amazes me that the same people that say the government screwed up DC with gun control laws and welfare then Digg any story about Obama. How does that make any sense?
        • Orion682, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2You seem to fail at realizing that one of the reasons for the enormous crime rate in DC is because of previous government intervention: a total gun ban that has lasted for over 35 years. There's a reason DC used to be "the murder capitol of the world." No matter what laws you pass, criminals will always have guns. It's an unavoidable fact. Gun control only hurts law abiding citizens, and prevents them from being able to defend themselves.

          Failing to realize the correlation, the government is now setting up checkpoints in DC. And then there'll be something else. And then something else. They're using previously stripped rights as fuel to take more in the hopes that "it'll fix it," but it won't, because society, fundamentally, does not work that way.

          This is a violation of the right to freedom of assembly in DC. Maybe next there'll be a checkpoint in front of monuments, and government buildings for "security reasons". Where will the masses march to when angered? Where will they stand so that the government can look upon their dissatisfied faces and understand their numbers? Thanks to this, the answer may potentially be a jail cell.

          Yes, DC has crime, but so does every major city. NYC, where I live, used to have a high crime rate too, but there are better ways to deal with that than to carve the city into ghettos and military zones. It's not the way. You can't stop violence with force, it only breeds violence.
        • foster53, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2Really you can't stop violence with force? How do you think American put down rebellions in this country? Shay's Rebellion? The Whiskey Rebellion? Both stopped rebellion, and rebellion that was justified, with force. If Diggers were around back then, Washington would be a trader.

          Why do you think cops carry guns? You can stop violence with force. There is no question about it, especially when that violence is senseless. It's one thing if the people you're fighting have a just cause, but these guys are just street thugs. If you have a cause (integration, let's say), then it's different. Most normal people will back the police up in that case.
    • nylrym, on 06/05/2008, -5/+18---"if it cleans up the streets of D.C. everyone calling it a police state is going to feel a little embarrassed that they waved their libertarian flag a little to quickly."

      No. We won't. Because specific desirable outcomes do not excuse the moral or ethical content of actions or legislation. You could reduce teen pregnancy by putting birth control drugs in school lunches. You could reduce pot use by imposing the death penalty for possession of any amount. You could even eliminate the problem of stray dogs by killing them all, banning the ownership of dogs as pets (anything other than licensed assistance animals), and euthanizing all existing pet canines. You can solve lots of problems by going to extreme measures and causing new ones. The real trick is to make absolutely sure that the cure is not worse than the disease.
      I fully realize that safety and liberty are a balancing act - making it illegal to shoot me removes from my neighbor the his freedom to shoot me. If I could be 100% certain without the shadow of a doubt that this policy would only be limited and temporary and such measures would only ever be taken in the most violent and unmanageable areas, regardless of their level of success, and that all of these policies would be applied evenly without regard to race, creed, religion, sex, etc. and with the absolute minimum possible disruption to the daily lives, routine, and social interactions of people in and around those areas, then I might be a little less concerned, but those kinds of assurances are hard to make and nearly impossible to back with anything that would make them believable.
      I understand the argument that the extreme level of violence and crime in these is a threat to the liberty of the residents as well, but these kinds of measures are stopgap. They are a standing for sufficient police presence and community involvement.
    • PeppermintPig, on 06/05/2008, -1/+8I really like how you open up with an ad hominem, it sure beats making an actual argument as to why you disagree with people who defend guns, dislike prohibition, and reject police state tactics.
    • itsabrandnewday, on 06/05/2008, -2/+4that was exactly the response they want you to give. those who ignore history will be doomed to repeat it. and whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, america will become the ruin of the 21st century. we already are the next oppressive fascist regime. and when it is all said and done, people like you will be standing in the streets, ripping at your hair and clothes, screaming "how were we so wrong? how did we let this happen?"
      • foster53,