digg

Join DiggAbout

Call for questions
Submit and vote up questions you'd like to see answered by Kevin & Jay at the next Digg Townhall on 11/18.

See the original image at democracynow.org —

Pat Tillman's Mother: Why the Gvt Coverup on Pat's Murder?

democracynow.org — Mary Tillman, Mother of Slain Army Ranger and former NFL Star Pat Tillman, on Her Four-Year Quest to Expose the Military Cover-Up of Her Son ’s Death by Members of His Own Unit. Pat Tillman left behind a lucrative NFL contract to enlist in the military after 9/11. On April 22, 2004, Tillman was killed while serving in Afghanistan, by his own men.

show profanity settings
expand all
  • Sham1969, on 05/26/2008, -7/+94The military is also so quick to build up a hero. Here they had a legitimate hero, and then they do this to him. Not just the friendly fire, that probably happens. But the cover-up. This is really an awful story.
    • jaymzdean, on 05/26/2008, -5/+17Yea, 3 headshots. From 10 yards away. That probably happens. Riiiiiiiiiight.
      • sKiLLa182, on 05/26/2008, -3/+9Burst-fire. It does happen. The soldier who shot him (from 35 metres away, a lot more than 10 yards) was an idiot, admitted that he saw him waiving his arms but still shot him anyway. "oops."

        Stupid, wrong, but you can't imply that it was intentional. No real evidence of that.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/26/2008, -2/+6The Bush admin had a legacy to protect, and support for the war was seriously waning back then.

      It has a lot to do with why they didn't set any goals, and didn't set any time tables. So their degree of success could not be measured and thus called into question.

      A lot of people are saying this was an execution, being it was so close. They'd only do that if he was going to criticize the Government or if an investigation into his death were to reveal something they didn't want public, like stolen/sold American weapons in enemy hands, etc.
    • PhilLesh69, on 05/26/2008, -3/+18I think the convential wisdom is that he was getting ready to speak out against the war.

      He was the "hero" for giving up his NFL contract to fight the neocon war, then he went over there and figured it all out, and he was going to come out against a war that let Osama get away and all that.

      Then he was killed by his own troops.

      Then they lied about it.

      Then some of his own friends spoke out.

      Then it was obfuscated by people back in Washington.

      Then his mother spoke out.

      Then the media buried it.

      Then it was brought up again.

      Then the neocon supporters called anyone who had been following the story "tin foil hat conspiracy theorists"

      Then the rest of America learned that "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" is a straw man argument.

      Funny how that works.
      • diggdallas, on 05/26/2008, -11/+2Dugg down for the annoying writing style of your comment
        • PhilLesh69, on 05/26/2008, -3/+6Annoying because it didn't jibe with your way of thinking?

          It is sort of like you believe "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

          Here's a few more quotes from an author you should look into:

          During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

          In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.

          Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.

          All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome.

          But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.

          All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.

          Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.

          Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
        • PhilLesh69, on 05/26/2008, -3/+5annoying writing style?

          Do you mean that I might be making a point that you cannot argue against?

          *****, I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that. I should write in such a way that allows you to vaguely argue against the truth.

          I can only assume that "annoying writing style" means it is difficult to argue against it.
    • web2pointYo, on 05/26/2008, -1/+5Mysterious accident waiting for his mother any day now...
    • nwoantibody, on 05/26/2008, -2/+6He was sending letters to his family on how he didn't understand why they were there and how disappointed he was with how the war was being handled. He was going to go public; no wonder the Pentagon double-tapped him.
      His mother is like many good people simply ignorant and innocent to military procedures, propaganda and information warfare. Back in Vietnam they acknowledged, war: it's 90% media, 10% action.
      Remember Private Lynch? Remember how that also turned out to be a huge fiasco?
      Only people with the memory span of a gold-fish don't understand how the military operates; because it's not even a matter of studying propaganda, but the countless failures the war has had and how they fail to do any real media cover of the real events. No accident; it's standard operation procedure, and it's working flawlessly. After all, aren't we still in Irak?
  • jforjools, on 05/26/2008, -8/+51I listed to an NPR interview w/ Mary Tilman a couple of weeks ago. Very sobering. We are all so honored by the service of so many. Pat was a true hero. The Pentagon and this administration used him.

    If you get a chance to listen to Mary Tilman, definitely do it. I understand there's a book out now too.
    • PhilLesh69, on 05/26/2008, -2/+5Even if you are a true believer, neocon apologist, you have to appreciate his sacrifice.

      Don't forget, he gave up an NFL contract, probably worth several million dollars, to fight our "war on terror".

      Don't fault him for finding fault in that story line. Just because he was going to come home and say that the terrorists were being allowed free access into Pakistan, doesn't mean that he isn't a hero. He kept fighting, right up until his fellow soldiers shot him up, even after laying down smoke and getting on the radio to let them know that he was a friendly.
    • BalzacOG, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Before you apply the "hero" label, consider him as a son, husband and brother to his parents, wife and brother.

      The label "hero" is too often given like a consolation prize to families who don't want any kind of award, they just want the truth.

      I think Tillman may well have been the victim of political assassination. The cover-up was criminal and it hasn't stopped. This is incredible disrespect to a very good man and his family.
  • rek2, on 05/26/2008, -25/+19I knew it! but personally I am antimilitary when is used for imperialism instead of defense like in the US.


    http://www.dailyradical.org
    http://www.binaryfreedom.info
  • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -24/+77It's going to sound bad, but I have a legitimate question about this "hero" thing, and this question is not particularly about Tillman (it's just a good place to ask). Please note, that I have no agenda against Tillman or anybody in the armed forces. I know that the regular soldier is "just" a grunt who has no voice in how the decisions are made.
    So:
    Why is everyone in uniform considered a hero -even if they fight in wars that are illegal, according to international law? Why is every soldier and ex-soldier a hero even if we do not know what they have done? Why do they automatically "serve their country" on the other side of the Earth, be it Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan? Why are the armed forces glorified? (If you take a look at the official holidays in the US, you have less than ten -and two of them are dedicated to soldiers. I haven't seen anything like that in any "developed" industrial country.)
    It is outrageous what the government does to Tillman's case. It is a very tragic thing that happened to him, and to others in these wars. I understand that it's not the soldiers' fault that they got into that situation (though you can say the same about every soldier who had to take part in a war of aggression in history - like the poor souls who ended up in Vietnam, or the Iraqis who went to Kuwait to be slaughtered, or the Germans in Poland). But why do they get to be heroes, when we know they do not fight for freedom (whatever it means), and they do not fight a just war (whatever a just war is)? Why are Vietnam vets are thanked for their service to the country? Why are Iraqi vets are thanked? They did not do such a thing. They are victims of the system who sends young men and women around the globe to fight for their agenda, and somehow survived. Yet, even senators, congressmen who argue the wars were a mistake, and a tremendous strain in the economy (not to mention the cost in human life), regularly thank these people for their service in the very same wars. Frankly, looking at the fact, neither the war in Afghanistan, nor in Iraq serves the US in any way.
    • SaraLiberty, on 08/16/2008, -3/+33Those are good questions. This may help you with answers or at least understanding why

      Open Letter to the Government from an AWOL Soldier, By James Circello, Iraq Veterans Against The War
      http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/circello
      • Notasheeple, on 05/26/2008, -0/+3Wow! I mean just wow! Thank you for posting this! I often wondered why none of the soldiers stand up for what is right. I hope there are more out there with the brass to tell it like it really is. Testemonies like this, I think, are much more helpfull to the war-mongers thatn I could ever be. Again, wow!
        • SaraLiberty, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2You're welcome :) Thank you for being appreciative. Rare quality on here. I felt similar when I read his words for the first time. I was stunned by his honesty. In fact I printed a copy and framed it. It gives me hope that some of the soldiers still have a true conscience to stand up for what is right with this sham of a horrific war crime massacre. They are being (ab)used by the administration for massive profit off the back of the troops and service people. This war fraud is not meant to be "won", it's meant to be sustained for as long as possible for maximum profit. It's about money profiteering for the military industrial complex, defense industry, and central banking system. Always has been, always will be. War is the ultimate moneymaker for the machine. It's tragic so many millions have to die and become permanently maimed, wounded for life for pure greed of a select few chickenhawk war fetishist profiteers.
      • spongya77, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1Amazing. Finally somebody with an enormous amount of courage telling things as they are.
        Now take a deep breath, and go armorama.com, and check out the Forums -Soldier stories, and such. Those are the vets who are fiercely in love with the US Armed forces, and think that Iraq is a great thing.
        Unfortunately these people are in majority.
    • JoeB4ever, on 05/26/2008, -26/+5you REALLY need someone to explain it?...
      • haydesigner, on 05/26/2008, -0/+5Ask an honest question(s), get a stupid answer.
        • JoeB4ever, on 05/26/2008, -2/+1ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer
    • brainboy77, on 05/26/2008, -6/+39this whole hero thing is a ploy to look like they care about vets. they really don't give a ***** about them as vets are their little pawns to carry out their personal agenda. look at the GI bill. not even mccain, a former POW, will sponser it. these guys used to be heroes, when they actually gave their lives to a just cause. now, they are just tools of destruction. and the vets aren't the bad guys here, but they're the ones who are going to be punished. it's really sad, and it's two-faced assholes like bush and mccain that are responsible.
    • cquinnd, on 05/26/2008, -3/+12It might be worth discussing for those who don't quite get the concepts involved.

      (The semi-short answer...)
      spongya77, every member of a US military force has placed upon them an expectation that they represent the military as a whole, or their particular branch of service, when they wear the uniform and in the ways they conduct themselves when out of uniform.
      In or out of combat situations, there are daily circumstances where someone in the military (on or off duty) may be called upon to do something heroic, just because that kind of effort becomes part of the job description after a while. Just like Firemen, you don't think of yourself as a "hero", but you are proud to be able to help when needed.
      That kind of attitude gets the group in general labeled as "hero" as much for the potential of what they may do, as for the good efforts of many individuals who excelled under harsh circumstances.

      Other answers to your questions go to the idea that America was one of the first (if not the first) countries to maintain a successful military from an all-volunteer elistment force. The average soldier does not choose whether a war is legal or not, only how they respond to the call to serve and whether they try to make the best of the situation.
      Soldiers are no more glorified than sports figures, and far less than some actors and other near celebrities. It is just that the major branches of the DOD have learned to do a great job on PR. You don't hear much praise for the Coast Gaurd and Merchant Marines, nor do you generally get the same attention paid to the State Department or the Peace Corps, which are also volunteer agencies which do a great deal of good for the US and her interests by people willing to go into harms way to accomplish something bigger than themselves.
    • datagod, on 05/26/2008, -5/+25Because Heroes are willing to sacrifice their lives to preserve YOURs. Soldiers dont' usually enlist to push political agendas, but sadly they are often used to enforce them.

      A soldier is a warrior who has chosen to fight for his country, his family, his friends.
      • Harfish, on 05/26/2008, -3/+14I chose to fight under the flag of another nation. Does that make me any less of a hero by that definition? I honestly couldn't tell you my reasons for signing up, but I believe I was able to help people out from under the shadow of tyranny, and tho I have taken lives, I believe I saved far more than I killed.
        • KMartSheriff, on 05/26/2008, -0/+3He never said you'd be any less of a hero. Props to you for making a difference.
        • NothingSoldier, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Agreed. Why shouldn't they be considered hero's. Their job puts them in danger. They don't sit in an office everyday with the biggest worry that their building might suffer an earthquake. I believe any job where you risk your life like that, police officer, fireman, etc.
      • sodade, on 05/26/2008, -2/+8I want to know the last time that a US soldier had to risk or sacrifice their lives to protect american citizens. Seems to me like it has been 60 years. Firemen are heroes all the time - soldiers? Sorry, but you are just the arm of a foreign policy that has only done negative to the american people for the last 60 years.
        • sodade, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2"Policemen are heroes too then" - some are and some aren't.
      • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1That's the point. They do not protect your lives. How many of the numerous wars were the soldiers fighting for "your freedom and life"? One?
        If you take it out of the equation, your whole argument falls apart.
      • Notasheeple, on 05/26/2008, -0/+5All the pro war people assume that we need the protection of the soldiers. In some respects we do. But to say that a bunch of pimply face, fresh out of high school kids are "protecting" me.......no thanks. I have plenty of guns and ammo ready for when the terrorists show up at my door. Tell you what, you tell me when you war mongers see a terrorist and I'll tell you when I see a leprechaun. Then we can all fight imaginary enemies together. Yay death and killing for everyone! While I do appreciate their service, in years past, (many of my own family) this war is a disgrace to America and by no means does a soldier who has served automatically deserve to be called a hero. How many of the 9/11 terrorists were from Iraq? How many WMD's did they have? Oh right..........
      • max420, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2I am SO going to be dugg down for this. But in light of what everyone is saying, defining what is a hero and what is not, is fairly subjective. I'm sure a lot of Saudi's or Iraqi's or Iranians see Bin Laden as a hero, or the terrorists who "supposedly" crashed a plane into the World Trade Center.

        As far as I am concerned, anyone involved in a war, whether or not they are defending their country, are not heroes. They are employed by their governments for the purpose of warfare. In no way does that make you a hero. But it needs to be done, so the government labels these people heroe's and people flock to join because they too want to "make a difference" and be a hero.

        Thing is, no soldier since World War 2 has made a difference. They all just been shipped out to wars with no meaning, other then to make money for a few select peolpe who run the show. What was the last time a US soldier was actually defending US soveriegnty, or the lives of American Citizens. Arguably, you could say that World War 2 was the last time this happened. World War 2 was the LAST time that the US actually defended itself.

        9/11 doesn't count, cause that was obviously an inside job, or "false flag operations" as they are called.
    • PabloMac, on 05/26/2008, -3/+10Veterans signed on the line to offer their lives for their fellow citizens.
      • vmass20, on 05/26/2008, -1/+7Veterans signed one the line do offer thier lives for their citizens without realizing they would would used to establish new fronts with new opportunities for International Corps. Whats the last war our soldiers defended us?? maybe wwII? maybe ill let you have that. But again it was a foriegn war. Get off the notion that soldeir protect you, if anything they will be used against you soon enough.
      • unreg, on 05/26/2008, -1/+1Really? I though they were signing up to serve with the armed forces. I don't think there is any verbiage regarding their laying down their lives.

        • PabloMac, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1The key words in your post are: "I don't think" Yes, there is verbiage regarding laying down your life in a military enlistment contract.
        • max420, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Its pretty much implied that if you join the Military, that you may be called to risk your life... so some ***** cause.
    • AntzNZ, on 05/26/2008, -14/+10The suicide bombers are pretty heroic, they put their lives far more on the line than a US soldier would. They both do stupid ***** and (attempt to) kill people.
    • SuperMoses, on 05/26/2008, -8/+7Because they need people to join the Armed Forces and in order to do that they tell kids that they'll become instant heroes by simply joining. It also makes their families proud.
    • nickweston, on 05/26/2008, -3/+8well said and eloquent. Politicians gin up the hero thing to cover up the fact that they are sending young people to die for their greed and lust for power.
    • m0tbaillie, on 05/26/2008, -4/+6The most simple answer I can give you is this: they are considered "heroes" because when you look at it, they're signing up to join the world's largest all-volunteer military. They're signing their lives away because they either believe in what they doing, and/or need the steady paycheck. These young guys enlisting don't necessarily know what they're getting themselves into right away, but they are definitely doing something different and unique with their lives and they're doing something that a lot of people would outright refuse to do or balk at.

      By thinking about it in terms of the wars they're fighting, you're thinking about this in too broad of terms. The military and politics have traditionally been two separate entities. It hasn't been until relatively recently that at the upper echelons of the military those lines have blurred. These young guys signing up have absolutely no choice and no say in where they do or what they do (in general terms). They aren't the President, they're just doing they're job, regardless of the consequences.

      You have to admit, it DOES take a lot of balls to enlist in the military during a time when we're fighting a hopelessly unpopular war on two fronts and still willingly get on a plane and fly to the other side of the planet. Whether they believe in the war or not, and whether they agree with it or not are two completely different issues. The fact still remains that regardless of the popularity of the war(s), and regardless of how you feel about the wars, these guys still deserve a measure of respect for voluntarily signing up to do something so that you don't have to. If we didn't have such a large volunteer military, there most certainly would be conscriptions (mandatory service of some sort) like there is in the majority of Europe (and Asia).

      While I may not agree with the war, be glad that somebody stands up, signs in the dotted line, and goes and takes orders thousands of miles away from their families and loved-ones, because otherwise it could very well be you.
      • sodade, on 05/26/2008, -1/+4So, soldiers are heroes because they prevent my government from needing to draft me? Personally, I think that in your essay, "balls" = brainwashed or dumb. If you want to be a hero, be a fireman.
      • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1So according to your argument the volunteers in the Wermacht and Waffen SS were heroes, too, because they signed up at a difficult time? (There were volunteers, mind you, not just draftees.)
        What you don't seem to realize, that these people are fighting in wars that wreak terrible death and destruction to the countries they are fought. Vietnam lost 2 million of its population. Iraq? Don't even mention. And the list goes on. So these soldiers are essentially taking part in something that takes a terrible toll on human life, and there's nothing about it that "protects your freedom" in them. Why does that make them heroes?
      • max420, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1You're an idiot. Thats all I have to say.
        • m0tbaillie, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1I fully realize that it's not "protecting freedom" - I said I disagreed with the war, but you're not looking outside the box on this one. Completely disregarding the fact that we're in the middle of two dead-end wars at the moment, all I was trying to say was that vets should at least be respected if only for the fact that they signed up to do something that most other people don't and won't do.

          If you think that makes me an idiot, then that's your problem and I'm sorry that's the best you can come up with as opposed to forming a coherent argument. You know you can still vote democrat and want to serve in the military.

          Also, it is completely pointless to compare the US military to the Wermacht and the SS - you're talking two different time periods 80 years apart. I fully agree that we should have learned our mistakes in Vietnam but we didn't. This Administration is has made zero progress in our country over the last 8 years and I do believe that it's pathetic that the country was deceived into the state we're at now. BUT, if you think it's ever cool to knock the military because they're doing what they're told..because they're doing their job, then get *****.

          Signed,
          -A Naval Officer Candidate (who votes democrat).
        • spongya77, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1m0tbaillie
          Now we are having a discussion :) Quite rare nowadays.
          The comparison to the SS is not too far-fetched. You will have to face it sometimes (just watch an Air Force ad, if you don't believe me), that both Nazi Germany, and the US (and Imperial Japan, and Great Britain, Spain, etc in the past) are fighting for global dominance. There are no lessons to be learned from Vietnam. Iraq was not a mistake committed by a few idiotic politicians. It was a deliberate step to upset the Middle East. Heck, they even published their aims in the late '90s, early 2000s. A few poor American, and more than a few brown people dies -who cares? No one did before, and no one will. Their agenda is more important.
          About doing what's told: that did not work in Nuremberg. (Of course the Germans lost then. But in principle it shouldn't work, even if you're the winner.) Every soldier has a duty to refuse carrying out an unlawful order. It's easy for me to say they have to risk trial, of course, but it's still a fact. Iraq's occupation is no more lawful than the occupation of Poland. These are the facts. And we haven't mentioned the torture cases, the murders, and so on that the US soldiers carried and are carrying out in Iraq. Mind you: I'm not saying all of them. And I understand that when you don't speak the language, you can expect to die any minute just for riding in your car, you get paranoid very soon. The same thing is going on as in Vietnam. But it's still not excusable. The real culprits are the people who send these young men with inadequate training and equipment into these wars.
          By the way if you had a non-volunteer army, it would not be so easy to launch wars left and right. This "volunteer" thing is the best con-job ever. I don't believe any of these soldiers signed up for occupying Iraq. None of my enlisted students had -I asked. (Unless they were so ignorant and stupid to believe all the crap that was said about Saddam by your beloved leaders, and in this case they kind of deserve it.)
    • eryximachus, on 05/26/2008, -7/+6There is no such thing as "international" law. Wars are what make laws. Without war, we would never have had laws. The world will never have a uniform government, as the endless civil wars plaguing us today makes clear. Thus, I'm sorry to tell you - the world is not like on Star Trek.

      You also don't seem to understand the power and importance of duty within the modern state. We honor those who do their duty, especially when they make the ultimate sacrifice.

      Law can only be enforced through military power. Power comes strength, and strength comes from unity. Unity is only possible when people honor the legal system of the state. The concept of duty that you decry is the very foundation of our society, without it - anarchy would reign. Respecting the death of Tillman is directly related to the relationship between law and unity, by way of the military duty.

      So, in short: you have no idea from where civilization comes, or how it is maintained. If people like you were in charge, humans would be living like they did in the stone age.
      • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1I'm sorry, but your view on life is very simplistic and naive. (But doesn't involve much thinking...) Your type of people is responsible getting the Middle East in this mess, and assisting the downfall of everything the US stood for while fanatically waving the flag.
        I think you would better be educating yourself on stuff, like the concept of "international law". Your argument leads us to Hitler, and his take on life and power. All what you wrote about unity and power could have come from Mein Kampf -if you don't believe me, pick up a copy at your local library.
        Let me congratulate you. He would be proud of you.
        • eryximachus, on 05/27/2008, -0/+11) Anyone who uses a Reductio ad Hitlerum is by definition naive. You are hardly in a position to make such a statement.

          2) There is no international law. Because you seem to think otherwise does not change that fact.

          3) You haven't read Mein Kampf. Find me the chapter that discusses the concept of unity and power.
    • wootup, on 05/26/2008, -2/+10Because our culture glorifies violence and militarism. Ultimately, soldiers are nothing more than mafia hitmen, taking a monthly paycheck or the promise of a university tuition in exchange for doing violence against whichever third world country the American Empire wants to prey upon next. Any ethical veteran would take every cent of blood money they earned during their time in the military and donate it to UNICEF or the UN Refugee Agency, or some other charity that is currently trying to undo the damage they have caused.
      • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2The problem is that in the same time "the ENEMY" becomes a subhuman, vile foe who is not deserving to mercy. It's been like that in every war: the "Japs", the "Charlie", the "Sandniggers" -and when soldiers start shooting at civilians, kids, women, when people are murdered in massive amount, the folks at home just nod that they deserved that. That's a problem.
    • buckrogers1965, on 05/26/2008, -4/+2"the noblest fate that a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and war's desolation" - starship troopers.
    • lolwaffle, on 11/03/2008, -0/+7When people find out I've deployed to Iraq, they always thank me for my service. It kind of bugs me, because I don't feel the invasion of Iraq and it's occupation is serving America at all. If anything, it put us at greater risk and needlessly killed a lot of troops and Iraqis. They don't want to hear that though.
      • spongya77, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2I'm sorry that you ended up there. I hope you realize that I have no beef against troops from the safety of my home. I will not start shouting "baby killers". The sad thing is that I had students who had been deployed, or who were going to Iraq, and it's a terrible waste of lives. I have a beef with the politicians who start these wars, and the population that glorifies this whole thing. Had the media actually worked, it would have shown the fallout of these wars: Panama, the Gulf Wars, even the Israeli occupation, Lebanon, everything. Instead people get a white-washed view, and think it's all driving in hummers and playing video-game with real weapon systems. I hope you'll be alright, and won't get into situations where you have to kill. (Strange thing to say to a soldier.)
    • MadOgre, on 05/26/2008, -2/+1"Why is everyone in uniform considered a hero"
      Because they are - they stand up for our Liberty. Your right to talk down to them. They risk their lives, sacrifice everything... for very little in return. And they don't ask for your thanks.
      • spongya77, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1So what had Vietnam, Panama, Iraq has to do with your liberty if I may ask?
        Or maybe it's just a smokescreen for your eyes to hide the fact that most of the volunteers in the armed forces come from a very poor background, and this is their only chance to get an education, and whose death will the least likely make any impact on the average, middle class white voter?
        hm...
        • MadOgre, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1Take Al Gore's dick out of your mouth.
  • roosevans, on 05/26/2008, -18/+22The motto of any true soldier is "ours is not to question why, ours is just to do or die"! Politicians and governments send soldiers to war. We can rightly condemn the war and at the same time praise the soldiers of that war. Soldiers serve their country with their lives with the attitude, "my country right or wrong". Every one can't be a true soldier, just like every one can't be a policeman or a fireman. Those of us who can't be soldiers, policeman and fireman should honor those who can, in my opinion.
    • Stevanoski, on 05/26/2008, -4/+10Why would any digg you down for your comment? I am probably on the opposite side of you politically but cannot fathom anyone who could find anything wrong with your post.
    • fixty, on 05/26/2008, -2/+5Perhaps true, but is this a regrettable truth? If, in fact, almost the *entire point* of basic training is to subsume large parts of a functional conscience under a chain of command, to overcome the natural disinclination to kill unquestioningly, has the soldier already sacrificed too much of what makes him human by casting off so much of what makes him humane, even if only for a time? Do they die a little before they even fight? I don't know. I haven't served. But I guess I'm suggesting these days of remembrance of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice should also be days of remembering the nature of the implicit sacrifices all soldiers make.
      • Stevanoski, on 05/26/2008, -4/+5True, but we can comment here on digg thanks to their sacrifice. Do you think any dictatorship would allow us this freedom.

        By the way, as an aside, post anything about China and you end up on a Chinese web page. Just try it, then google yourself + digg. Scary.
        • buckrogers1965, on 05/26/2008, -1/+1Don't worry, they are making a list for later.
    • Kyrgizion, on 05/26/2008, -6/+8Wow, that is the biggest load of crap I have read in weeks. I mean, seriously. Go back and read the steaming pile of ***** you wrote- you just crossed out justice and pissed on its mutilated corpse.
      The world is in the shape it is in now because of people like you. People who think it's allright to unquestioningly follow orders. Does the phrase "Wir haben das nicht gewusst" tell you anything? Yeah, they were also just following orders.
      The only possibility for redemption for any person comes from thinking your own thoughts and questioning your own actions and the reasons behind them, not by being a slave to a group of mega-corporations posing as an international police force.
      • NuclearDruid, on 05/26/2008, -3/+2And you over-reacted way to much, dude. Seriously, 'you just crossed out justice and pissed on its mutilated corpose'? Wow.
        You COMPLETELY missed his point.
        • arjie, on 05/26/2008, -1/+4Actually, he does have a point. The OP said, «Soldiers serve their country with their lives with the attitude, "my country right or wrong"» and whether you like it or not, that is such nonsense, and one must apply the same standards to every army man that one applied to those at Nuremberg. Also quoting the Charge of the Light Brigade in support of soldiers not questioning their orders is sort of foolish.

          Take responsibility, none of this "I'm just protecting my country" *****. Take personal responsibility for what you do.
    • hobbler, on 05/26/2008, -1/+1It's "do and die" not "do or die". Small words make a big difference.
    • Bodhinature, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2Why should praise people who follow orders without question? That type of behavior was universally condemned at Nuremburg.
  • Beagle17, on 05/26/2008, -9/+9Here is a very relevant story I posted to GNN last summer. There are some good further links in the postas well.
    Rumsfeld denies cover-up in Tillman case
    www.gnn.tv/H15006
    • 55mph, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Rumsfeld, like his pals Bush and Cheney, is a treasonous mutherfuker.

      'Love it or Leave it' neo-con proBush diggers, listen up. You're next!
  • fr0ng, on 05/26/2008, -8/+42He was going to use his celebrity image to tell the country how the top commanders were letting Al Qaida escape, by surrounding them on 3 sides, and leaving them one open side to run away. He was furious and started making a big deal about it. Next thing you know, he was 'accidentally' killed in a friendly fire incident. What are the chances of all that happening?

    I'm going to the store to pick up a new sheet of aluminum foil...I'm almost out.
    • isaactwito, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2This is something called "fragging" in the military. It comes from the use of fragmentation grenades used to kill off other soldiers (often commanders who give reckless orders that soldiers fear would endanger themselves and their comrades) in a way that makes it look like an accident. It's not restricted to hand grenades of course. This was an extreme problem in Vietnam because of disputes between people who supported the war and those who didn't, but it happens in all wars (it was more prominent in Vietnam because of how controversial it was and the fact that many people in opposition to the war were drafted into it). In Vietnam it became such a problem that if there was even the slightest rumors of plans to frag someone, the command would have them removed asap. Talk to any combat veteran (not just people who sat behind a desk or did radio stuff or something that didn't require actual fighting) if they are willing to talk about their war experience, and they can tell you that this is something that happens. Another note: there are arguments about how much this occurs in the current US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (remember America, we're in two wars!), although this is hard to determine because if someone is properly fragged it will go unnoticed and seem like an accident. This is just another reason why we have to hold our military to as high of moral standards as anyone, and in general why war is something we should avoid AT ALL COSTS.
  • Stevanoski, on 05/26/2008, -17/+8The Bilderberg group made them, please put your tinfoil hats on and adjust to a comfortable position.
    • GhostyBoy, on 05/26/2008, -9/+4Man, you people are ***** retarded.
      • Stevanoski, on 05/26/2008, -8/+6One suspects you would be an excellent judge of retarded folks.
        • gypsi, on 05/26/2008, -6/+5"i know you are but what am i"? grow up, son.
  • AMACTASTIC, on 05/26/2008, -6/+34Are you people continually circulating this story over the internet in hopes that someone ELSE will do something about it? Because it seems to me most of you people just sit around and leave angry comments on the internet about it.
    • KMartSheriff, on 05/26/2008, -1/+10People are pissed off and mad, but no one will do anything about it. We say "Wow! That's ***** up! I'm pissed!" but then we remember we have work tomorrow, and need to finish that paper for class, etc., and just continue the routine. No one's truly going to do anything until ***** really hits the fan. Until then we all just want to come home, have dinner, and watch American Idol.
    • redlock, on 05/26/2008, -2/+3like you?
      • AMACTASTIC, on 05/26/2008, -2/+1Yes, it's true that I'm not doing anything about it. However, I don't feel that it's my place to do anything about it because I don't know the details or have enough knowledge of the event to defend a position I take on it. I've never actually read into it that much, I've just seen it floating around constantly.
  • dasdef, on 05/26/2008, -3/+5he looks like an army guy
  • NuclearDruid, on 05/26/2008, -12/+2This wasn't a cover up, this was news when it happened. How was this ever a cover up? Even the history channel on shootout had something on this guy.
    • arcadiansky, on 05/26/2008, -1/+0you obviously do not have the intellectual capacity to understand this story, or most of the stories on this page. Nickelodeon.com may be a more suitable website for you to peruse.
      • NuclearDruid, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1No, shootout had it how he was killed by his own men. If the military tried to cover up how he died, they did a horrible job, because even the history channel knew the real story. How he threw smoke grenades to show his teammates that he was friendly, how they were trying to signal to them. If it was a cover up, they absolutely did a horrendous job.
        Thanks for the insult by the way. It was really original. Thanks for giving my post some thought
  • Sayvor, on 05/26/2008, -5/+30Tillman is a badass, anyone who walks away from the NFL to join the army for 9/11 is badass.
  • georgemason01, on 05/26/2008, -10/+19Don't question the military, or the terrorists win.
    • cr4wl3r, on 05/26/2008, -0/+6There are day i honestly do think thats what bush wants people to think; with the way his rhetoric (or lack thereof) sounds. I mean really, if you listen to lots of videos from CSPAN and radio on NPR, some of the things he says just scare me sometimes into "Wow.. that guy's president?". I don't mean to bush bash(that's so 2006), but it happens enough for me to comment on it.
  • mark076h, on 05/26/2008, -4/+12what i want to know is why when he was killed the media treated him different than all the other service members that have been killed? just because he played football does not make him special
    • JoeHague, on 05/26/2008, -0/+6I agree to an extent. He did give up a promising and lucrative NFL career to serve his country. I'm not saying that he is the only man(or woman) to put aside his(or her) own life to help his(or her) country, but he was pretty identifiable.
    • Xeller, on 05/26/2008, -0/+7He was being offered a multi-million dollar contract as a player in the NFL. With complete and absolute respect to "all the other service members", it's not very common to see someone give up millions of dollars (literally) to go fight a war.
    • KMartSheriff, on 05/26/2008, -3/+4Because he's the perfect "American soldier". He was being used more as an image for the military than anything else. Apparently, every American guy plays Football, has an old American muscle car, will serve his country without question, and looks like an Abercrombie & Fitch model.
  • ajmeade1, on 05/26/2008, -8/+24They murdered him execution style because he was going to come back and expose the fact that we are in Afghanistan for one reason, and that is to protect the U.S. Government's interest in the opium trade. You can't have someone that high profile mentioning the fact the America funds both sides of the War on Drugs, especially a military hero. Talk about a PR nightmare...
    • Lazydriver, on 05/26/2008, -3/+2If it were Bush's way, we'd have all of our troops in Iraq rather then Afghanistan.
    • cr4wl3r, on 05/26/2008, -2/+8Digg Commenters: Fact check: Is this true? (I do not know the incidents regarding Tillman's death that well.)
  • diargasm, on 05/26/2008, -11/+4Yea the military did cover up his accidental death to turn him into a hero. But so what? They painted him as a hero; the military and country needed one. They do this in all civilizations as far back as to the Ancient Greeks. That is itself is not a moral crime in my opinion. The war itself yes, but not this.
    • buckrogers1965, on 05/26/2008, -2/+4Lying on official reports is a crime. Why are you so soft on crime? Why do you hate America so much that you want to let lying criminals get away with their crime?

      And I hate to tell you this. Nobody ever covers up a crime to make someone else a hero. They cover it up to hide their own crimes.
      • diargasm, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1I didn't say it wasn't a crime legally. I said it wasn't really a moral crime. For what it's worth it happens all the time. There are always war heroes in every war. Pat Tillman was the hero for the current war. We are supposed to want our side to win right? So what's the problem here?
  • 9bpm9, on 05/26/2008, -2/+4Wasn't this on sportscenter like, last year?
  • tacklebox, on 05/26/2008, -10/+3they didnt cover it up they gave that idiot family a chance to have their son be a war hero. Yes, it was an accident, but what's to gain by dragging your dead son's name thru the mud with this?
    • schroeder, on 05/26/2008, -1/+4I think they would rather have the truth about what happened than an empty title. Wouldn't you? Why cover up something if there is nothing to hide?
    • dn11, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1or dragging the US Military through the mud on a PR disaster you mean?
  • CryTekEmployee, on 05/26/2008, -17/+1BECAUSE IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. LET IT GO. I SPILLED COFFEE ON SOME DUMB BITCH THE OTHER NIGHT AND BLAMED IT ON SWAMP GAS. LET IT GO, LET'S DIGG MORE KXCKDC STORIES. DIGG FTW.
    • nirav72, on 05/26/2008, -2/+4Come back and talk to us when somehow close to you dies in an 'accident'.
  • pablo0713, on 05/26/2008, -19/+1soldiers r noobs. don't cry over dead lemmings.
  • pidgas, on 05/26/2008, -0/+15Tillman sacrificed more than most of us can imagine. He and his family deserved better.

  • ExplosivesWTC, on 05/26/2008, -4/+27Pat Tillman WAS MURDERED! The evidence is clear.
    • piradians, on 05/26/2008, -2/+6Actually, the evidence was destroyed. Sure that makes it much more suspicious, but far from clear. We haven't had any real clarity in many years...
    • vmass20, on 05/26/2008, -2/+4His clothes were burned... even tho thats against the law (even by military standards) and they didnt even get reprimaded for the felony charge of purposely destroying evidence.
  • TheLoneWolf071, on 05/26/2008, -2/+7This is such a sad story. The mother knows something isn't right with her son's death and instead of learning the truth, they cover it up.
  • Edge00, on 05/26/2008, -6/+3From dictionary.com
    mur·der - the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)


    so.....yeah....why is this labeled as murder?
    • buckrogers1965, on 05/26/2008, -2/+3Ummmm, because firing a weapon at another human being in an attempt to end their life counts as murder under the definition you just gave.
  • gigamugged, on 05/26/2008, -1/+9Pat was patriotic enough to give up the good life in service to us, his fellow countrymen, and he was patriotic enough to question what the hell the game plan was once he was over there. Apparently some of his fellow soldiers were too thick-headed to see that in fact, questioning our government's actions is the most patriotic thing any American can do, and they killed him for it. Sickening, and even more sickening to see the pentagon's half-assed attempt to put a positive spin on things after the fact by lying about what really happened.
  • usgovterrorists, on 05/26/2008, -9/+17The terrorist United States Government are horrific liars, and have NOTHING to lose by lying again. The mainstream media is great at covering up the terrorist United States Government lies!

    United States Government are terrorists, war criminals, and horrific liars.

    Where's the evidence that kerosene fires melted steel?
    How did the huge molten pools of metal get under the twin towers and building 7?
    9-11 was an inside job! 9-11 official story was a lie! What happened to building 7?

    Depleted uranium is a weapon of mass destruction!

    Play Wall Street like a PONZI SCHEME!

    The elections are rigged, unsecure voting machines & ballots!

    Terrorist United States Government mandated a fivefold increase in the use of biofuels.
    • tolbs, on 05/26/2008, -5/+1I can't tell if you people are just trying to get a laugh or are serious. If you want to add something to the conversation please do something other then copy and paste the same drivel over and over again.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/26/2008, -4/+2Where are the Terrorist United States? Google earth can't find them.

      Seriously this might be a fake account, to make people who don't trust and do criticize the government look bad.
    • usgovterrorists, on 05/26/2008, -2/+6What do you call a government that stages attacks against its citizens?
      What do you call a government that invades Iraq on 1000 lies?
      What do you call a government telling lies about Iran, so they can attack Iran next?
      What do you call a government that deploys several thousand tons of weapons of mass destruction?
      United States Government are terrorists, war criminals, and horrific liars.
      The word terrorist just doesn't seem to do it justice.
      The terrorist United States Government makes any so called terrorist look like a boyscout!
    • STBAT25, on 05/26/2008, -2/+0Cool, a real life truth-er. I haven't heard from one of you in about a week.
    • 55mph, on 05/26/2008, -0/+3maybe he is a jokester. maybe not. i dugg it for the summary. unfortunately it's all true.
  • RRJackson, on 05/26/2008, -5/+6Douglas C. Niedermeyer: Killed by his own troops in Vietnam.
  • decker12, on 05/26/2008, -8/+3She's a brave woman, but from someone in the bay area in the media business.. well, she's a bit of a media whore, just like Cindy Sheean. I respect what they're trying to do, but their methods have transformed from brave and interesting to simply annoying and borderline false. They continually come up with new wordings for their losses in order to aggravate the media into filming them. Soon we'll hear how their loss caused suicides in their family, or global warming - they truly stretch that far in rallying the media to their cause.
    • txtphile, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1That's sexist!

      But seriously, as someone in the "media business", you should know that the United States Department of Defense (lol) is the biggest media whore ever. Every single day the citizens of this great nation are ***** by her. The pimps (everyone from Boeing and Lockheed to the "media business" who gladly puts on "retired" officers so they don't have to do any real reporting) are well pleased.

      Their methods are shouting at the top of their lungs that, basically, we're getting ***** by that big media whore and, wait, she has AIDS!
    • vmass20, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1haha.. you had the gaul to call Ms. Tillman a media whore. Wow, hate much?
    • 55mph, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Unfortunately, only the squeaky wheel gets anyone's attention.

      She's the neocon liars worst nightmare and their friends in the media won't give her much attention unless she demands it. That takes noise.
  • Roger_Ramjet, on 05/26/2008, -9/+4He wasn't killed by his own men in a fragging incident. Sorry, no "Douglas C. Niedermeyer," gang. He was caught in friendly fire and tragically killed. It was an accident.

    Jeepers. Doesn't the fever swamp ever take a break from their obsessions? Get a life for God's sake!
    • vmass20, on 05/26/2008, -0/+2why were his cloths burned and all evidence destroyed when he was killed then??? and dont even say it was honor or some *****, eveyone knows that is a felony do destroy a soldiers uniform, especially if it is needed as evidnece.
  • vurdillac, on 05/26/2008, -10/+0This poor woman is obsessed in a really unhealthy way. She knows it was a friendly fire incident, probably an accident. Yes the military handled the whole thing poorly. It has been explored on capitol hill and in the media. What new info could possibly satisfy her? She needs to get on with her life.
  • LoneRanger85, on 05/26/2008, -11/+5Why the concern about Tillman now? When he was killed, liberals thought he was an idiot for passing up millions to serve his country. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUI ... Oh. I get it. If he can be exploited as a tool to run down the United States, THEN he's a victim.
  • noen, on 05/26/2008, -2/+4Because he was murdered in cold blood that's why the cover up.
  • buckrogers1965, on 05/26/2008, -2/+3Pat Tillman was a true hero who upheld the greatest human values.

    The lying sack of ***** that tried to cover up his tragic death for their own political gain deserve only our contempt and very long jail sentences.

    Their first impulse is to lie. They don't even have to think about it, they lie by reflex. I am beginning to wonder if they can even speak the truth.

    Was it just a coincidence that he was murdered just at the time he had begun to question the policy and speak out against what he saw as wrong there?
  • BobScratchit, on 05/26/2008, -1/+4The need for the government to lie to it's people is much greater than it's honesty towards the loss of a grieving mother.
  • Iztikeit, on 05/26/2008, -1/+1Yeah, this is some suspicious *****. Kennedy once said something about secrets.......
  • username484767, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1firebombs people, only way you are going to change a god damn thing...
  • Modizzle, on 05/26/2008, -2/+2he was an hero
  • mrzack, on 05/26/2008, -3/+49/11 = INSIDE JOB
    Pat Tillman rest his soul in heaven knows.
  • hobbler, on 05/26/2008, -4/+2Here's a more believable reason:

    Guy gets shot by friendly fire, horrible accident. The CO was faced with either ruining someone who made a mistake's life completely, or putting in the report that a guy already seen as a hero died heroically. A good officer is supposed to take care of his men like that.

    Accidents happen. Could you imagine living with yourself after you shot one of your squad mates by accident? That guy's probably punishing himself more than anyone else ever could.
  • GentleRapist, on 05/26/2008, -3/+2Give me a break. He wasn't murdered he was ACCIDENTALLY killed by his fellow soldiers which unfortunately happens often in war. Although the government did use his death to create positive publicity for themselves, it happens all the time because the military doesn't want to tell the family.
    • Notasheeple, on 05/26/2008, -1/+2WTF is the matter with you? gentle rapist? seriously? What an asshat!
    • GentleRapist, on 05/26/2008, -2/+1It's a joke douche, lighten up
      • Notasheeple, on 05/26/2008, -1/+2You think it's funny to joke about that you effing douche. Why should I lighten up you little *****?
      • GentleRapist, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1Alright tough guy sounds like you need a nap
  • digbird, on 05/26/2008, -1/+1I grieve for the Tillmans and their loss. It's terrible to have a death in the family; worse when it's because of friendly fire; and even worse when you are lied to about the circumstances of that death.

    But I can't help but think that no matter what happens, it's never going to be enough for the Tillman family. There have been six investigations about this incident and a lot of people's careers have been busted up (justifiably) for what happened. But the Tillmans subscribe to the grand conspiracy that their son's death was lied about to divert attention from the Abu Ghurayb scandal and other disasters in Iraq. There is absolutely no proof of that...just supposition and innuendo. Tillman was just not that important a person.

    I also feel sorry for the Ranger who accidentally shot Tillman. Fratricide is a sad and unavoidable reality in war. As someone else noted here, I'm sure that he feels horrible about what happened. And hearing the Tillmans basically howling for his blood no doubt makes it much worse to bear.

    So I wish the Tillmans would "sit down" (just like I felt about the Goldman family in the aftermath of the O.J. Simpson civil trial verdict).
  • themachine, on 05/26/2008, -2/+2There obviously was a cover up - but don't call it murder. Give me a break.

    Sensationalist headlines that do not reflect the truth. Buried inaccurate for the headline.
  • gibbwake, on 05/26/2008, -1/+3Tillmans murder had a lot to do with this iraq vet coming out 911 being an inside job as well. Evidence of explosives were found in the WTC dust.

    Iraq war veteran and demolitions expert blows the cover on 9/11 inside job:
    http://digg.com/politics/Iraq_war_veteran_and_demo ...
  • MadOgre, on 05/26/2008, -0/+1To soldiers who join without an NFL career sacrifice less for our Liberty? We all only have one life to live.
    I don't get the fascination... he played a meaningless game and traded that to do something much more meaningful.
    Some things are more improtant than money. If you live just for the dollar... you will have wasted your life.
  • MikeFallopian, on 05/26/2008, -1/+0Did the military try to spin his death? Yes. Was it murder? Of course not. It was a tragic accident and the aftermath should have been handled better by the brass.
  • warlokaz2004, on 05/26/2008, -1/+0"Why is everyone in uniform considered a hero -even if they fight in wars that are illegal, according to international law? Why is every soldier and ex-soldier a hero even if we do not know what they have done? Why do they automatically "serve their country" on the other side of the Earth, be it Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan? "

    ...we could go back to attacking and spitting on soldiers coming back from an unpopular war, call them all monsters and baby-killers. The Hippies and dirtbags seemed to enjoy picking on those that defended their freedoms when they came back to the U.S. the first time around.
  • chase001, on 05/27/2008, -0/+4They offed him CIA execution style because he was going to go home and speak out against the invasion of Iraq and Red State America won't listen to "liberals" but they would have listen to Pat Tillman.
    • chase001, on 05/29/2008, -0/+1What do you bet Simple Scotty McClellan is next?
  •  

    Login or register to add a comment

    Create a new account or login to join in the conversation on Digg. You'll also be able to Digg stories to help promote things you like.


© Digg Inc. 2008 — Content posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain.
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.