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225 Comments
- Chestnutridge, on 04/06/2009, -9/+55Wrong. In the eyes of all NATO countries Turkey is a European country. Geographically, Turkey has a foot in Asia and a foot in Europe. (Go look at a map!) More importantly, it is in the U.S.'s (and Europe's) to keep Turkey as part of NATO and alligned with the West. Unfortunately, economically and politically Turkey has serious issues that caused the European's to take a "slow go" approach They may not like the U.S. encouraging them to do this, but have already agreed to do it "eventually."
- xtraa, on 04/06/2009, -1/+42Two reasons why Turkey is not a part of the EU yet are
- violation of some human rights
- the banking system - RLovell, on 04/06/2009, -6/+45You can't join the EU if you're currently invading or occupied in another country, Turkey occupies Cyprus so they can't join.
<-- From Cyprus - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -4/+42Also, the headline is misleading.
The cities of Paris & Berlin are absolutely NOT bristling.
Merkel & Sarkozy just disagreed with our gesture of support. And clearly they weren't bristling either. Just read what they said.
- MercyPolitics, on 04/05/2009, -50/+77Well, that is a big gaffe. Turkey is not part of Europe, and further President Obama shouldn't be telling Europeans what to do or not do with the EU membership.
- MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -6/+32
Just a small show of support like this gesture can go a long way in starting good relations with Turkey. We're not on as good of terms as we used to be, the relationship needs some mending.
Also, Merkel & Sarkozy didn't seem the least bit upset by this show of support. At least going by the article.
- MercyPolitics, on 04/05/2009, -4/+28Yes, but Sarkozy & Merkel are a lot tougher customers than Obama think they are. He will get even less troops for his "good war " in Afghanistan from France & Germany because of this ridiculous meddling.
- cyberdork, on 04/05/2009, -10/+34Obama just repeated the long standing position of the USA concerning the EU membership of Turkey.
And it's far from a gaffe, Europeans consider Turkey as part of Europe, we have a shared history. However a huge majority of EU citizens are against a further extension of the EU. That was the only reason why French and Dutch citizens voted against the EU constitution.
Oh and an Turkey's largest city lies mostly in Europe. It's actually be second biggest metropolitan area in Europe. Every heard of Istanbul? - inactive, on 04/05/2009, -6/+30Obama is trying to repair the Israel - Turkey alliance.
Remember that the centerpiece of US foreign policy is Israel, not Europe and not American self-interest. - Tarnum, on 04/06/2009, -2/+26Reason 3: Islamist ruling party & Islamic majority.
Reason 4: Cyprus
Reason 5: The Kurdistan question. - Y0tsuya, on 04/06/2009, -3/+26"Every heard of Istanbul"
I prefer to remember it as Constantinople. - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -11/+33
This is not a gaffe, it was part of a back room deal with Turkey.
It was just a show of support for an ally in exchange for their support on other issues. He was not telling the EU what to do.
Everyone knows the EU's position on letting Turkey in.
This is a non-issue.
- barktwiggs, on 04/06/2009, -2/+24Imagine if Sarkozy or Gordon Brown had suggested that the US should accept Mexico as it's 51st (or maybe 57th?) state... How well received would that be by a majority of Americans?
- ralph123, on 04/06/2009, -2/+23As others have already pointed out, this is not a gaffe but simply restating the long held US policy on this matter.
But as a European, let me point out some things that many discussing this issue here don't seem to be aware of.
It's true that there is a discussion in Europe about letting Turkey join the EU and that some conservative governments like France and Germany are opposed to it. However it is also true that the EU has already started the official process needed for Turkey to become a member.
http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/candidate-countrie ...
Whether this will lead to Turkey becoming a member is of course far from clear, but it shows that Obama didn't say anything outlandish but stated his support for official EU policy.
Now, on a final note, as a European I think it is in our very own selfinterest to have a Turkey that is as close a partner of us as possible. Turkey is after all a primarily muslim country with a lot of influence in the muslim world and the last thing we would need is to push such an ally further away from us. - insanebrain, on 04/06/2009, -1/+20Heee Obama, mind your own business... If we allow Turkey to the EU then it will be OUR decision.
- Khoji, on 04/06/2009, -3/+20I just spent a week in Istanbul and my overriding impression was: This country should not be in the EU any time soon. There is nothing remotely European about it and my personal feeling was that there is a very good chance that it could become another Islamic republic within the next couple of years.
- MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -6/+23
FYI: We always have a vote of a show of support for countries that want into the EU. So does Russia & China.
They aren't official votes, but it can effect how EU countries vote. Its like a really good reference on a resume.
Its just politics people. I'm surprised I have to explain it.
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -5/+21Which just goes to prove my point, mon frère.
We continue to do Israel's bidding against our own self interest. - jkillsl, on 04/05/2009, -1/+17There is also the issue that Turkey borders Iraq, and America believes it needs Turkish cooperation in pacifying Iraqi Kurdistan.
- DemDude, on 04/06/2009, -1/+16It's very simple: If you have laws that strongly constrict the basic human rights of anyone (in this case women, homosexuals), you're not joining the EU.
Frankly, I don't think Turkey is ready to join the Union. - sodoh, on 04/06/2009, -1/+16European and EU are two different things.
Turkey is not part of the EU and was told to clean up its human rights issues among other things before it would be accepted.
Why not just accept them as part of America if you think they are ready now? Like a colony? - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -5/+19Do you know what will happen if Obama's threatens support for Israel?
He'll find himself dead.
They may first try to discredit him with scandals & misinformation campaigns.
You have a lot to learn about Israel.
- sulliwan, on 04/06/2009, -0/+14The government of Turkey is secular and quite rabid about keeping it so. It is not so much a religious issue as a human rights, foreign relations and enviromental issue. Religion doesn't have nearly as much effect on European politics as it does in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_t ...
Also, Turkey is BIG, it would have a very large influence in the EU, so it is perfectly understandable why EU wants to be very careful about this. - rabidbob, on 04/06/2009, -2/+16I'm not from Cyprus and I'm with you. Turkey out of Cyprus, give some autonomy to the Kurds, sort out their human rights issues and we'll think about it.
- Hardrada, on 04/06/2009, -2/+15I suggest you go and look at a map. Turkey doesn't has a foot in Asia and a foot in Europe, it has a toe in Europe, the rest of that foot, the other foot, the body and everything else in Asia. Saying Turkey is a European country is like saying the UK was an Asian country when they had Hong Kong.
- MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -0/+12Sarkozy said it was up to the EU member states to decide on Turkish entry and reiterated his opposition. "I have always been opposed to this entry," he told France's TF1 television.
"I still am and I think I can say that the immense majority of member states shares the position of France," he said.
"Turkey is a very great country, an ally of Europe, an ally of the United States. It will stay a privileged partner. My position hasn't changed and it won't change," he said.
This is not bristling. In fact its quite boring. Its really just a statement of position.
- MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -1/+12Freeman - Israel Has Hammer Lock On US Policy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/16/chas-f ...
I'm not trying to patronize you, but we disagree about Israel's power & influence in US policy.
- Doc123, on 04/06/2009, -9/+20Europeans consider Turkey as part of Europe?
HAHAHAHAHA - XenonBG, on 04/06/2009, -0/+11Actually, the way things are now, there's really not much point talking about it. Sarkozy already decided that, after Croatia, each new accessing country would have to pass French referendum. And while it should be no problem for Balkan countries, I don't see Turkey ever passing that referendum.
It's not only about religion. Turkey has very big population, and would get uncomfortably big part in making EU decisions. Also, Turkish immigrants in France and Germany are leaving very bad impression on native population of those countries. And there are lots of them (immigrants). - Skeptica, on 04/05/2009, -8/+19Maybe it hasn't occurred to some Americans that the U.S. is not a member of the EU, and the EU was formed as a counter-weight to the American dominance. So, the U.S. has as much influence on EU when it comes letting in Turkey as a member of the EU as it has on Tibet being independent from China. By the way, we Americans don't even allow Mexican trucks to enter the U.S., but we want Turkey to be a member of the EU which would allow Turks unlimited access to the EU nations?
- emailowndme, on 04/06/2009, -0/+11Put pressure on Israel, or just stop our war profiteering and placid support of every one of their actions.
I think the latter would be enough, hell if we were serious about making peace between Israel and Palestine, we would just tell Israel, shops closed, no more guns, go fight with your words. That might almost be enough. - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -5/+15This is about more than just NATO or the EU, its about a longer term strategy.
"The new U.S. administration wants to correct its perception in the Islamic world, and Obama is starting with the easiest one, Turkey," said Nihat Ali Ozcan, an analyst at the Economic Policy Research Institute in Ankara.
Obama's Turkey Tour Heavy With Strategic Symbolism
http://www.thestate.com/world/story/738440.html
- SmartestDigger, on 04/06/2009, -2/+12Turkey is getting more and more backwards.
If you leave Istanbul and Ankara, the rest of Turkey - except for some of the touristic south is a backwards Islamic state.
It is becoming more and more so.
Ataturk originally banned the fez and veil, but now it is coming back. In some parts of Turkey, you would never see a veil on a woman. Now, you never see a woman without one.
Just what Europe needs.
Obama needs to STFU.
He can't even sort out the problems in the US and he wants to stick his fingers into the EU's issues too now? - uateva, on 04/06/2009, -2/+12Turkey has no business joining the EU. It would alter so much the population, economic, social, religious and geostrategic balance within the EU, that it would turn it into a completely different thing. No thanks.
A special agreement is the most we should be willing to offer them. If they don't want it, that's their choice. - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -0/+10
I'm not an expert, but I do a great deal of reading about it, for a little over 10 years now, including the main Israeli newspapers.
And the data I'm aware of is quite accurate.
They are very powerfully embedded into our political system & have a great influence when they want to use it against anyone who tries to stand up to them.
There would be pro-Israeli Dems & GOPers attacking Obama, there would be smear campaigns, they would throw the kitchen sink at him to at least make sure he's not re-elected.
Plus, they absolutely carry out political assassinations, just like we do.
The evidence absolutely does point to our government being held hostage by Israel.
Threatening our support of Israel is a sure fire way to not get what we want, & only get something we don't want instead. I'd love it if that would work, but I don't think it would.
- novenator, on 04/06/2009, -9/+19Turkey does not belong in the EU. The cultural differences are simply too great. The fact the the US and England are pushing for this so hard only demonstrates that they want the EU to fail and for Europe to remain divided.
- waydee, on 04/06/2009, -3/+12Turkey will join the EU when they meet the criteria that has been laid out for them for some time now, no sooner. I'm not opposed to their accession but the backing of President Obama should have no bearing in the process, when the conditions are met and the current member states are in agreement that the time is right the accession should go ahead - no earlier. This is no business of the United States and any perceived interference won't be well received.
I know this is breeding bad feeling and distrust of the EU in Turkey but it's a necessary process, it's not just a case of filling in a few forms and sticking them in the post. EU membership will be good for Turkey and good for the EU but only if it is done by the book, there are some important areas of concern still to be addressed completely. - insanebrain, on 04/06/2009, -1/+10The EU has good relations with the mid-east... that's the irony. America doesn't, and that's their own fault.
- uateva, on 04/06/2009, -2/+11Trust me, NO WAY. Have you known many Turks and Germans in your life? That's a ludicrous statement
- rocketz, on 04/06/2009, -2/+11Yacketty yack America, It wont happen
- MercyPolitics, on 04/06/2009, -6/+14"Eventually" won't happen, Chestnutridge. As far as Turkey having one foot in Asia and one in Europe you are correct, but when you say that " All countries in NATO view Turkey as a European country" you are wrong;Just ask the Greeks.Keep in mind that modern Turkey is the left over of the Ottoman Empire. Bottom line, the point that I am making here is that Obama has no business backing Turkey for their EU bid.
- cyberdork, on 04/05/2009, -0/+8It's not a backroom deal. It's America's long standing position on this issue.
- MercyPolitics, on 04/06/2009, -2/+10To read the coverage of this story from a French point of view go to:
http://digg.com/world_news/Obama_Sarkozy_Clash_ove ... - Chestnutridge, on 04/06/2009, -1/+9No you are. IThe United States has been in favor of this for sometime. This is not a new postition. Remember, Turkey is part of NATO and the U.Sl position (including during the Bush Administration) is that everything should be done that encourages Turkey to look west, towards Europe rather than East to the Islamic bloc.
- mahleriano, on 04/05/2009, -2/+10As a european i can tell you that Sarkozy doesn´t feel comfortable at all with Obama remarks. Is a very very controversial issue. One hundred million of muslim people with much higher birth rates (20 births per 1.000) entering EU? Most people say NO. Every referendum in every EU country would say NO, specially in France, Germany, Italy and Greece. Is insane and it would lead many countries to try to leave the union.
- WoollyMittens, on 04/06/2009, -2/+10Excuse me, but Turkey accidentally lost about 2 million Armenians somewhere and they won't tell us what they did to them. At least part of Europe is a bit hesitant to let genocidal maniacs join the EU.
- hiPpymIck, on 04/06/2009, -1/+9or before that Byzantium
fun GIF - changes of Byzantine Empire
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40 ... - XDingoX83, on 04/06/2009, -8/+16Obama should stay out of the EU business just like he should stay out of private businesses business.
- pingudownunder, on 04/06/2009, -1/+9Reason 6: EU Countries don't support the Death Penalty. In 2004 Turkey agreed to completely scrap it as a pre-requisite to joining the EU.
Unfortunately, the Cyprus issue is the big one. Only Turkey recognises North Cyprus as a nation - the rest of the world classes it as illegally occupied. Until this is completely resolved (and I suspect that Greece - already an EU member - wants a complete withdrawl by Turkey), Turkey won't be joining the EU.
I've worked in Turkey a few times, and must say that the people are amazing and so friendly. If only the political obstacles can be overcome, then I'm sure the majority of Europe would welcome Turkey into the bloc. - MiddleAmerica, on 04/05/2009, -8/+16Here' the back room deal:
President Obama Exercises Diplomacy, Helps Avert Mess (Again)
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/04/pr ...
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