What is Digg?53 Comments
- unitethenations, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31Disgusting. Are the medical ethicists on hallucinogens, or are they just saving those for the inmates?
- JesseJericho, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27To DCMacHead: Capital punishment for selling drugs? Are you serious?
- Narayan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Shouldn't we be moving forward and not backward?
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20You know, only a brilliant ethicist like DCMacHead can draw the fine line between legalizing marijuana and killing people over other drugs. You should listen to him. His arguments about how people with mullets should be killed, unless they are in a NASCAR pit crew, are sheer genius.
- missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13If the prisoners could give uncoerced consent, it would be one thing.
However, that's doubtful, and the program would be far too easy to abuse. I would normally side with the ACLU, but in this case I'm going to have to disagree. If I want to participate in a medical trial, I'm free to do so, but I'm also out walking around free.
It's a fact that you lose some of your freedom when you go to prison. A prisoner should still be treated like a human being, but for the time being, this is going to have to be one of those liberties you lose in the big house.
As much as I hate to say it, prisoners should not be permitted to participate in medical trials because the potential for abuse is too high. If they're really concerned with contributing to science, they'll do the trials when they get out, and not because it might get them a shorter sentence or preferential treatment in prison. - martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I agree that if this could be done without abuse of prisoners, it might be great. However, the pharmaceutical companies are so enmeshed with their FDA regulators that I doubt reasonable oversight would occur.
- marmaduke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14And who the ***** are you to decide who gets it or not. The prison system is meant to rehabilitate criminals so that they may re-enter society, not as a playground for untested pharmacuticals.
- sokz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Yeah, I was going to say... medical trials cross your "line" but executing drug dealers does not? What an odd set of ideals you have..
- CaptShmo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Maybe if it was an optional program they could get into for reduced sentences. Of course we don't want killers back on the streets AND on experimental drugs, but if the offer was on the table only for non-violent criminals maybe it would be worth it.
- kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10And our country takes another step toward becoming a full corporate oligarchy. Yay. Can't wait until we start testing military weapons on prisoners. "Hey, you double-parked, *****. You gave up all your rights."
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I'm sure the optional part of it will go something like: "If you want food you need to sign up for the new (completely optional!) drug testing program."
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I don't see a problem if it was for those convicted of violent crimes and sentenced for life, and the inmate consented to it. It could be in exchange for more leisure time or whatever. Some may even be remorseful and do it just to feel like they are benefitting society in some way. But drug testing/experiments against their will? It would be ironic to see China disgusted by our lack of human rights for prisoners.
- wusupdoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@marmaduke
The prison system has drastically changed from it's original purpose. It's original purpose was rehabilitation, however that is no longer what happens. It's a punishment ground for the people in there for life and death, and it's hardly rehabilitating anyone these days. Ask anyone who hasn't had a religious experience while in there, and most will tell you the only thing they learned from prison was how not to get caught. They share tricks of the trade. It's really just like the streets. There's desperation in the air; people get shimmed and shanked and gangs are everywhere. Rehabilitation may have been the original purpose, but it's hardly become that anymore.
But yeah, testing on prisoners is really ***** up. - kubudubudubuntu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What if they caused a slow and painful death?
- sonicdevo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Involuntary dosing with _experimental_ drugs is just f*cking nuts. I want to talk to whomever hatched this bright idea.
However, I do think that we should force our inmates to support their own imprisonment a little more effectively. (i.e. They should be worked to pay for their room/board, and to repay society for their crimes) I say we match job difficulty with the selfishness displayed in the crime. Crimes of simple negligence or passion should warrant clerical work, crimes that involve premeditation like fraud, rape, etc. should require hard physical labor. And we'd need someone to manage the workforce who could be guaranteed to be impartial... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Not for the ones serving life sentences. Don't feed into the ***** you hear. Prison is about rehab only for the short term folks.
- logicnazi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6All these commentators are missing the point that they want to allow VOLUNTARY testing of drugs on prisoners. They want to be able to offer prisoners money to test experimental drugs the same way they offer normal people money to do this.
Look they might be prisoners but this doesn't mean they aren't competent to make their own decisions. Sure the money may be more valuable to them because they are in prison and it is hard for them to make money in other ways but this just shows they get a greater benefit from the money offered. It is no different than the fact that offering money to test drugs means poor people (and grad students) are going to be more likely to take up the offer because the money is more important to them.
The argument that it is somehow wrong to give prisoners/poor people the choice to participate in these tests for money since they are coerced into doing it is just complete BS. They could always choose not to do it, the fact that their situation means they are very likely to choose to do it just shows that the money they get is something that improves their situation a lot.
Unless you have very good reason to believe the people making the choice are so stupid or irrational that they are being tricked into making obviously bad choices giving people more choices is never doing them a harm. - Alphabet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5LMAO, a story was on digg last month about how a bunch of people nearly died from medical testing and some guy said "I bet those pharmaceutical companies will try to lobby for the government to open up medical testing on prisoners again."
- diggik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6That federal panel needs to watch V for Vendetta as at least one movie to quell those kind of suggestions.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Thought prison was supposed to be about rehabilitation.
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Some of the sick ***** that are in there deserve nothing less. "
Must be convenient they are mostly blacks ? - CaptShmo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4well, yeah, unfortunately sometimes our lawmakers are even more crooked then the ones behind bars. like all situations where one human has power over another, abuse is always the wildcard
- Maxeh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5The fact that anybody could even suggest this disgusts me. There's not much more to say, prisons are meant for rehabilitation, not just a dump for people America no longer wants so we can test drugs on them. Even if it's voulentary, I don't see it as morally acceptable since we should be concentrating on rehabilitation rather than what we can do with the prisoners!
- WonkerSmack, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Don't get me wrong, this does seem messed up. But if I was in prison for life, and someone wanted to test some hallucinogenic chemicals on me, bring it on...
- olegk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I don't see a problem, if it's voluntary.
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Oh my gods. You are... a frightening person.
- jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7This is too sickening. Society is regressing into the dark ages again. f*ck
- Zettabyte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I see it as a good idea, to help advance medical research. You say it's sickening or they said prisoners are "sub-human." I like you see defending the prisoners, when they rape your Mum, Girlfriend or sister. Anyway, 95% of inmate in Australia are Drugged ***** herion addicts anyway. Plus it's vouluntary anyway.
- dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4There are impressive arguments and studies that no less than 10% of people in US prisons are there innocent of the crimes they are charged with. Sentences are quite high; at least two to three times as long as those in my own country, the netherlands. Imagine you being hauled off innocently or on something like possession of cannabis, being put there for 10 years and having to do hard labour.
I would NEVER travel to places like Saudi Arabia, the US, Singapore because I am terrified of these subhuman prison systems and 19th century laws. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Horrible... just horrible... the US prison system already will be regarded by history as one of the biggest cancers of this age (with two million inside and counting) and this only add insult to torture. Frankly I am disgusted.
- MacLiberal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Why is this a surprise? The republiKKKans view prisoners as sub-humans, so of course it's okay to experiment on them, hey how about harvesting their organs while we're at it.
- hipstershaun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You are both right. Rehabilitation for those who will be getting out some time should be a priority. At the same time, many refuse to be rehabilitated. Even in prisons with great rehab resources, only a small number participate. You can lead a horse to water... I'm not saying we shouldn't make an effort, just that we shouldn't place too much blame on the prison system for repeat offenders.
- Pottersquash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3BOUT TIME!!! This could work wonders!! Has to be 100% voluntary of course and companies must hold to same standards as any medical screening. Also, Id like a program where prisoners who stay off of drugs and aids free can give blood and/or plasma.
- thaldex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2minimalin medical research - testing new pharmaceuticals in the treatments of some cancers on patients who've relapsed after multiple treatment regimens. I see it rather as a good thing. This new proposal isn't what some of you think it will be. Nobody is suggesting testing new pharmaceuticals on _unwilling_ subjects; from what I can gather, they, like any other person participating, will have to sign an informed consent and be educated on the benefits/risks of the drug.
In fact, this section of the article leads me to believe this is only opening up the availability of certain clinical trials to the prison population, potentially life saving trials that only the general population have access.
''Under current regulations, passed in 1978, prisoners can participate in federally financed biomedical research if the experiment poses no more than “minimal” risks to the subjects. But a report formally presented to federal officials on Aug. 1 by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences advised that experiments with greater risks be permitted if they had the potential to benefit prisoners.''
This should mean that if a prisoner has end-stage cancer, he'll have the right to choose an experimental treatment that he would otherwise be denied -- because most all trials for such treatments pose ''greater than minimal risk'' to those participants.
To me, this just opens up another set of potential patients who could participate in trials and get them approved faster. The only way to know your risks/benefits of a new drug is to test them on a set number of patients. If the prisoners are informed in the same manner as every other patient in the community, what's the harm? As long as it's not anotherTuskegeee or Nazi-prisoner-type situation, it can't be all that bad. - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think they should offer a humane euthanasia program in those prisons.
- Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2if this goes through, see the prerequisite for death penalty go down and prisoners walking out of rooms agreeing to this bruised and bloody
- hipstershaun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1See my reply to olegk above for why this is a bad idea.
- hipstershaun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sure there is no other problem. If you ignore that there is just as much drug use behind prison walls as in the ghetto. You think you can get a controlled test with accurate results from people previously ravaged by drugs or supplementing the testing with a little of their own choosing. (many, not all) I don't want to take a prescription that was approved based on skewed results from a jacked test group.
It's a bad idea, if not for the prisoners safety, then for my own! - logicnazi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Your argument only makes sense if this program somehow interferes with rehabilitation. Letting a drug company pay prisoners (giving them money to buy comforts and perhaps buy aids to improve themselves like books). Generally these programs actually compensate the prison for the extra cost of allowing the program so there is no reason to believe they would take resources away from rehabilitation.
I mean do you object as strongly to letting prisoners participate in social science research? Say the wonderful research done by the university of Wisconsin (I think) about criminals/crime by interviewing the prisoners? That work gives us important information that can be applied elsewhere in the country to help rehabilitate prisoners. Testing pharmaceuticals can be used access the country to help people too. I don't see any difference. - thaldex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have to agree in a way. Since all blood products in the US are tested in accordance with what amounts to a near paranoid level of regulatory affairs, if the prisoners are willing, why not let them donate blood?
Our hospital is so short on blood that we've lowered the transfusion requirements for total hemoglobin etc. Everyone in the hospital with an email account was urged to donate and the head of pathology (also blood bank) came round to beg as many departments as she could. Since the prisoners aren't going anywhere and could donate without messing up their ''schedule'' (reason most people give), I see only benefits. - Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2We need to know if it works on HUMANS not animals.
- kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You know when conservatives take over they move everything backwards right?
- kuzotz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think that's were they got the Idea to do this from..
Except they plan to intercept those who would chnage their agenda - wetworx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I can't think of a bette ruse for the vermin infesting our prisons.
Make them useful - in some way. - ezkiel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4The only drugs imo that deserve any sort of severe sentance for dealing are coke, crack and methspeed. The rest (including heroin) are relatively harmless and would have no crime associated with them if they were readily available.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I'd say it's ok if they inmates volunteer themselves. Maybe it's just me but if they're murderers and the like, it doesn't bother me if they suffer.
- Himself, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0they're not a fair representation of the public.
testing drugs on animals is a much better idea: no valueable human life lost. Unlike people, animals have no right to life. - FinishdLawSkool, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Depending on the crime that they are convicted for I do not care what is tested on them. Bring back Mengele from WWII for the terrorists, rapists, child molestors and murderers.
- Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0"Must be convenient they are mostly blacks ?"
You're saying I'm racist now? Where the ***** did you get that idea?
A guy who kills and/or rapes a kid, brutally murders someone - like chopping up their body or something equally sickening - people like that should be tortured and killed. Thats the type of slime you do these tests on. Much better than having our tax dollars being wasted to keep these sick ***** alive. Put them to some kind of use at least.
How can anyone disagree with that? The above described "people" are not human. - ButtFuzz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0Another cool version of pong:
http://www.jeffwofford.com/rong.html -
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