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Palestinians support unity gov't + peace with Israel

maannews.net — We are often left to guess what ordinary Palestinians think of the situation. A recent poll shows surprising figures. 70% are for signing a peace agreement with Israel while 30% are against. 58% of respondents would prefer if Hamas changed its stance towards Israel, and stop saying that it should be “wiped out.” Click through for more

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writie 71 days ago

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Who Dugg It?

writie, on 09/08/2008, -1/+15The overwhelming support for peace with Israel is obviously important here, but also the call for a government of national unity.

I hope Hamas and Fatah read this article. It's time for a more coherent and diplomatic approach to the Israeli occupation.
kazz67, on 09/08/2008, -1/+13Now that was an interesting read!
Like you Writie, I hope the people who can affect the changes desired by the Palestinian people take note!
foopirata, on 09/08/2008, -3/+9"58% of respondents would prefer if Hamas changed its stance towards Israel, and stop saying that it should be “wiped out.” 42% called for Hamas to cling to its stance." - when the 58% are free to explain to the 42% why they're right, peace will have a true chance.
- writie, on 09/08/2008, -0/+10I'm sure the 58/42 split have a pretty good idea of what the other thinks.
  
  I still think that having almost two thirds of the people preferring that Hamas change its tune is a pretty significant figure, and well worth debating both in Palestine and in Israel.
  
  Almost 60% means that peace already has a chance. Who will step up and give it that chance (genuine question, I'm not being sarky)? We can see a certain amount of movement on the Israeli side (a few roadblocks opened here and there, the release of prisoners, the ceasefire with Hamas, etc.). I'd say the time is coming for a bolder political/diplomatic move on the Palestinian side. God knows the Palestinian people seem to be ready for it.
  - 140Suffolk, on 09/09/2008, -0/+2They're talking about STRATEGY. 58% would prefer if the strategy was a changed stance.
- foopirata, on 09/08/2008, -1/+6"I still think that having almost two thirds of the people preferring that Hamas change its tune is a pretty significant figure, and well worth debating both in Palestine and in Israel." - I agree completely, it is a very welcome figure.
  
  "Almost 60% means that peace already has a chance." - that would be true in a democracy. Let me suggest a small thought experiment: 4 people are in a closed room.. 3 people hold opinion A, and 1 person holds opinion B, fervently, and an assault rifle. Which opinion will come out triumphant of that room?
  
  "Who will step up and give it that chance (genuine question, I'm not being sarky)?" - interesting question.
  
  "We can see a certain amount of movement on the Israeli side (a few roadblocks opened here and there, the release of prisoners, the ceasefire with Hamas, etc.)." - Israel has a very active and loud peace camp which has been with us for almost 40 years. I'd say "a certain amount of movement" is hardly a good description.
  
  "I'd say the time is coming for a bolder political/diplomatic move on the Palestinian side." - hear, hear.
  
  "God knows the Palestinian people seem to be ready for it." - please expand on that - in your opinion, are they ready to make it, or are they ready for it to happen?
  - writie, on 09/08/2008, -0/+5I don't want to dismiss the vocal and active peace camp in Israel - far from it, they have my total respect. But like the moderate Palestinians, they are only as effective as the change they can make. Change comes from the top, from the leaders. Progress in peace is measured in actions, not speeches (valid for both sides). The state has to do this.
    
    And that is what I mean by the Palestinians being ready. This survey indicates that there is a large body of people ready to move forward. But they need leaders to voice that and bring effective changes. Palestine is split between Hamas and Fatah. One or perhaps even both of them have to be able to bring about negotiations and go into them with realistic goals. Otherwise the moderate voice will be buried again. This will require a considerable shift in Hamas' position. Are they ready for it? Their voters seem to be.
    
    (I typed a longer version of this but lost it clicking about - dang).
  - foopirata, on 09/08/2008, -0/+7Thanks for your answer.
    
    "But like the moderate Palestinians, they are only as effective as the change they can make." - great sentence! But now, how come you have MKs in Israel who are opposed to the occupation, but no legislators in the PA coming out with a "peace camp" mentality?
    
    And many thanks for explaining your previous statement. I agree with you completely, but the sad side of things is that Hamas (the one opinion with the assault rifle in my experiment) does not seem willing, ready and/or able to do any changing.
    
    Do you think that their voters being, as you put it, there will be change in the next Palestinian elections? When are those, does anyone know?
Bagos1, on 09/08/2008, -5/+1Too late.
Buy gas masks.
Oh, and then get out if you can.
- Bagos1, on 09/17/2008, -0/+1And you will get out if you can....sooner rather than later.
zolthar, on 09/08/2008, -1/+10good news.
bernk1, on 09/08/2008, -1/+10Good news, let's hope that it is true and that there can be peace.
chrisjj, on 09/08/2008, -6/+1This should be no surprise. The extremists are the Israelis who persist in bludgeoning the Palestinians into submission by stealing their land, shooting at them, and surrounding their towns and villages with 20 foot high walls. The fact is that no power can take away the pride and dignity of the Palestinian people and their culture - they continue to demonstrate a mostly moderate demeanor in spite of all this abuse. I'd be interested to see a similar survey taken among ordinary Israelis and then another among Zionists living in the USA.
- writie, on 09/08/2008, -1/+7"I'd be interested to see a similar survey taken among ordinary Israelis and then another among Zionists living in the USA."
  
  I'd think there are enough Israelis that aspire to a more normal life. The Zionists in the US are largely irrelevant, as they are not directly involved. Who cares what they or the Iraqis think of the situation? It's the Israelis and Palestinians that have to live together as neighbours. The situation is complicated enough without outsiders egging the participants onto new levels of violence.
  
  And here is an indication that the neighbours are not quite as hardline as we thought. It's worth saying - and acting on. All those who believed there was no point talking to the Palestinians can see a glimmer of hope. Maybe it is worth investing something in talk after all. Maybe there is someone listening.
  - chrisjj, on 09/09/2008, -2/+2"The Zionists in the US are largely irrelevant, as they are not directly involved. "
    I don't know what planet you're living on but the disproportionate influence of the Zionists in the USA (in the form of the Israel Lobby) on US foreign policy is extremely important in resolving this conflict. Unless the lobbyist's efforts to suppress the truth are broken and their trickery exposed, there will never be political will in the USA to force Israel to the point of ending its occupation of the Palestinian Territories and acknowledging the Palestinians' UN-mandated Right of Return. Over her in the USA we are beginning to see encouraging cracks appear in the charade that is AIPAC and other groups.
  - writie, on 09/09/2008, -0/+4chrisjj: OK, I was a bit flippant with the influence of US lobbies. But the point remains that Israel and Palestine are neighbours on a tiny sliver of land. If the lobbies really have Israel's interests at heart they should be aware of the possibility of building something positive over the coming years with Palestine. Apart from any nationalistic notions, the economic benefits of stability will be huge in terms of investment, employment, etc. If they are not aware, Israel must be able to make this point to them. It doesn't make sense to slap your neighbour because a distant cousin thinks you should.
tomasII, on 09/08/2008, -2/+4Yes the Palestinians have never gone back on their promises for peace!? NOT!
140Suffolk, on 09/09/2008, -2/+6"Concerning peace with Israel, 70% are for SIGNING a peace agreement with Israel ... 58% of respondents would prefer if Hamas changed its STANCE towards Israel, and stop SAYING that it should be “wiped out.” "

So the 70% are for SIGNING a peace agreement. Or anything else. Sign it & ignore it. And 58% are for changing the STANCE towards Israel. Why keep alerting these Jews to our intentions?

Right. Just as Fatah is for lying to the Israelis and pretending to be for peace. While also pretending that they're not the ones dispatching suicide bombers to kill Jews. . They're the good terrorists and Hamas are the bad terrorists.
- writie, on 09/09/2008, -3/+1It's a survey. It's not a treaty. It's an indication of the mood in the street, nothing more. But it is significant.
  
  "Sign it & ignore it." That's your interpretation.
  
  "On whether Hamas or Fatah need reform more, 54% of respondents answered that both movements need reform at the same level. 23% believed Fatah needs more reform while 23% said Hamas need reform. 76% of Palestinians preferred Fatah’s strategy for achieving the aims of Palestinians, while 24% preferred Hamas strategies."
  
  Palestinians are holding their parties accountable, as much as that is possible in a war zone. In the current situation, for all the flamboyant rhetoric, neither Hamas nor Fatah can even remove the roadblocks in the West Bank, let alone "wipe out" Israel or achieve even a partial right of return. I think this fact is probably painfully obvious to people that work their land or are trying to study. The shortcomings of both parties are inescapable for Palestinians no matter how many flags are waved. Will this enable a change in tactics? Who knows? But it's worth bearing in mind that Fatah is already in negotiations with Israel and Hamas is doing the same in Gaza for different reasons.
  - 140Suffolk, on 09/09/2008, -1/+4Think what you like. I think they are rendering their opinion as to which strategy will work best to destroy Israel:
    
    Hamas -- fast jihad. Direct confrontation in the open.
    Fatah -- slow jihad. Claim, in English, to be for peace. Proclaim, in Arabic, that Israel must be destroyed.
  - writie, on 09/09/2008, -3/+1140: "Hamas -- fast jihad. Direct confrontation in the open."
    
    This leaves aside the fact that they repeatedly called for a ceasefire and finally got one (shaky but holding) in Gaza.
  - foopirata, on 09/09/2008, -2/+4@writie: and repeatedly said they'd be using it to re-arm and re-form. (Note how "reform" and "re-form" are totally different)
    
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/world/middleeast ...
    
    "The chief of Hamas said Saturday that his group would accept an Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Israel, but that it would be a “tactic” in the group’s struggle with the Jewish state."
  - writie, on 09/09/2008, -2/+1Foopirata: the point of this whole post was that there are a significant number of Palestinians that want peace with Israel, and also disagree with Hamas' stance.
    
    Plus, the article you link to contains selective quotes taken from a translated German article. It might be more interesting to find the original than someone's cut-and-paste job. Besides, in the same article, Mashal says, “We are ready to cooperate seriously from a place of power.”
    
    Barak has said publicly that he will attack Gaza, without even adding the proviso of "if they don't accept a truce". This tit-for-tat could go on for a long time still.
    
    Do you think it is more productive to encourage Barak and Haniyeh than the people that are saying they've had enough?
  - foopirata, on 09/09/2008, -2/+3Of course I am for encouraging the moderates. But remember the analogy of the 3 people with one opinion and 1 person with an opinion and a rifle?
    In the end, Hamas is the government in Gaza. They haven't even "fixed" their own charter, for heaven's sake, and they want to sell themselves as possible partners?
    Yes, Barak said he will attack Gaza. The reason was the rockets. No rockets, no attack.
    
    As for Meshal's "readiness to cooperate seriously": they're the sole power in Gaza. What other "place of power" do they need to be able to cooperate seriously?
    
    The quotes come from an interview with Al-Jazeera TV.
    
    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/ ...
    "He said: "It is normal for any resistance that operates in its people's interest ... to sometimes escalate, other times retreat a bit... The battle is to be run this way and Hamas is known for that. [...] "We are ready to cooperate seriously from a place of power," said Meshaal. "If Israel does not accept, then we welcome confrontation."'
    
    Israel is willing to advance talks with the Palestinians, as it is doing with Abbas (and he's getting what he wants - roadblocks removed, prisioners released). But Hamas has to be seen for the cobra it is, and treated accordingly. Consider Hamas' treatment of other Palestinians ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McxxS98E22o ), it would be stupid not to take them at their word.
    
    My point is that yes, a cease-fire has been reached - but not from a desire for peace by Hamas, but from the need of rearming and re-forming.
  - 140Suffolk, on 09/09/2008, -1/+3Whether Hamas "calls for a cease-fire" or not the thing to understand is that they are terrorist liars. Someone said the cease-fire was "shaky". That's because they violate it.
    
    One of their excuses is having a "different" terrorist group do the attacks. Or they'll launch a rocket. Then when the Israelis retaliate, they whine that the Israelis were the ones that violated the cease-fire.
    And conveniently forget their rocket launch.
    
    Neither Hamas nor Fatah can ever be trusted.
    
    Regarding the poll, if there is a "significant" percent of the Palestinians that want peace it will be the first time in history. The poll questions, however, do NOT ask that. They ask only about tactics. What should be "signed". And what "stance" to take. Every other poll has always shown that virtually all the Palestinians support their terrorist war. How could they not? They are immersed in anti-Israeli anti-Jew brainwashing from the minute they are born.
  - writie, on 09/10/2008, -1/+1I understand all this and have hear it many times before. But from the moment that there are elections, Hamas and Fatah are accountable to the people. They have a stab at actual power. Reversing the elections was not a smart move, as it takes the power out of the hands of voters and maintains it in the hands of the paramilitary.
    
    Concerning Gaza, it would take a very narrow reading to say that it is not holding. There will always be the odd incident. Should the attacks by settlers be attributed to the IDF? How about the fishermen that get shot at in Gazan waters?
    
    It's obvious that any organisation has tactics. What is the issue? Does anyone think that the IDF is not regrouping, increasing intelligence and buying more bullets? It is also still holding a large number of Palestinian legislators, many without charge. There is still an occupation. There are still targeted assassinations.
    
    I don't want to defend Hamas as I think a lot of what they do is counter-productive. But until there is a clearer chance of self-determination, I think it is naive to expect them to not brandish the possibility of action.
    
    Concerning the roadblocks, it is worth checking how many are in place compared to three years ago.
  - 140Suffolk, on 09/10/2008, -1/+2Hamas and Fatah are accountable to the people? Yes. And every poll has shown that the people WANT to continue the war with Israel.
    
    Regarding everything else you've said, it's all moral equivalency. But the two groups are NOT equivalent morally. The arsonist is NOT the same as the fire-fighter. The mugger is NOT the same as the police officer. And Hamas/Fatah are NOT the same as Israel.
    
    Hamas/Fatah are the attackers. Israel is the defender.
    If there weren't suicide bombers, murder-rocketers, and every other kind of killer among the Palestinians there wouldn't be roadblocks.
  - writie, on 09/10/2008, -0/+1140: "Hamas and Fatah are accountable to the people? Yes. And every poll has shown that the people WANT to continue the war with Israel."
    
    Sorry I wasted your time showing you the opposite. Enjoy Digg.
140Suffolk, on 09/10/2008, -0/+1Do I have to spend ten minutes googling out the references? Every poll of the Palestinians has shown that the vast majority want to continue their terrorist war with Israel. Either you've not paid attention and don't know this. Or you DO know this and you're pretending to be ignorant.

Do you think someone is twisting their arms forcing them to dress their five-year-old boys in faux suicide belts? You don't buy the idea that they elected Hamas because they thought they'd get clean government, do you? They elected Hamas because they felt Hamas would confront the Jews with more violence and maybe more success than Fatah.
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Palestinians support unity gov't + peace with Israel

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