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NY Times Admits Obama's Muslim Birth

littlegreenfootballs.com — After relentlessly labeling anyone who brings up the issue of Barack Obama's Muslim origins as a bigot, a racist, or a lunatic, suddenly this morning the New York Times publishes an op-ed that actually admits Obama was born a Muslim.

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fleischner 74 days ago

45 diggs
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fleischner, on 05/12/2008, -5/+25Continues: The Obama campaign, by the way, blatantly lied about Obama's Muslim origins in a statement on January 23, 2007: Debunked Insight Magazine and Fox News Smear Campaign. http://obama.senate.gov/press/070123-debunked_insi ...
- ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -8/+10Wow. "Muslim origins". I was born Protestant. Never practice the religion a day in my life, but those damn "Protestant origins" sure seem to bother my Catholic friends.
  
  I missed the part of the Constitution that says you have to be born a Christian to run for President. This ***** is just plain ridiculous. What next? Drown him, to see if he is a witch? This is ***** 2008. I don't have to kiss the Pope's ring, declare my Lutheran, Jew, Protestant, etc. ANYTHING.
  
  Obama certainly shouldn't have to give a ***** about "he was born as" stupid stuff like this. Grow up...
  - JohnReb, on 05/12/2008, -2/+10The Times article is more about the possible reactions of Muslim nations to a US President who is, by many of the Muslim religious definitions, an apostate. It has nothing to do with his suitability to be president because he might have started life as a Muslim from a US point of view.
  - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -2/+10Obviously you missed the whole point of the article and I encourage you to read it carefully.
    
    The difference is that Christians or Catholics wont execute you for being an apostate but Radical Muslims will and have a history of doing so.
    
    Christians do not use the bible to support any laws that would make apostasy illegal. Muslims have and currently do have laws on the books that are currently being enforced in Islamic countries around the world.
    
    Ssn, you said: "What next? Drown him, to see if he is a witch? This is ***** 2008."
    This is my point exactly! While many other mainstream world religions have fortunately done away with such foolishness, Islam continues to practice such medieval behavior and they support it using their scriptures.
    
    Christians by contrast have used their scriptures to argue that such behavior is un-christian.
    
    So please, re-read the article. I think you will find that the folks who need to grow up are those that would kill someone based on their religion, something that is unfortunately happening right now, every day in the Islamic world.
    - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -8/+6As I said in another thread, I didn't miss the point of the article (although my comment above was pointed directly at the "Obama lied about being born a Muslim!" link).
      
      I am losing track of all the ways people want to use the Muslim card on Obama. He is a closet Muslim, he can't be trusted. He is a racist Christian, he can't be trusted. He isn't a Muslim, but was, so now will have to kiss their ass to appease them.
      
      I REALLY want to know when the religious freaks are going to make up their mind?
      
      Oh, and all this is VERY un-Christian, IMO.
  - 140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -1/+7The other point is that THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN OUTRIGHT LIED ABOUT IT.
- buddarien, on 05/12/2008, -5/+6@ssn
  
  Next time you attempt to make an incoherent defense, READ THE ARTICLE FIRST.
  
  In your zeal to capitalize on racism and bigotry, your ignorance has failed you. Better luck next time.
  - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -5/+6And, before you rush to sling *****, realize I was responding to fleischners comment. Or was your mouth watering so much to call someone a bigot, you didn't have time?
    
    But by all means, tell me about YOUR coherent argument? Are we now to believe he can't be trusted because he was born a Muslim, converted, thus pissing off radical Islamist, so now he will have to kiss their ass so they won't be mad? Is that the argument now? Cuz I am losing track. First, he is a Muslim. Then he is a bigoted, racist Christian. Now he is a former Muslim who will forego his country to make radical Islam happy?
    
    By all means elucidate for me.
    - buddarien, on 05/12/2008, -3/+9I fully understood that you were responding to fleischner. And my comment still stands, read the article first. That is my argument I guess.
      
      "I missed the part of the Constitution that says you have to be born a Christian to run for President. " Your comment.
      Personally, I don't care what a person's religion is that is running for POTUS, so long as they are going to uphold and defend the Constitution. This article has nothing to do with his religion according to Americans. It has to do how he will be perceived among the radical islamists around the world.
      
      In fact, I feel he cannot be trusted based on his actions and his far left leanings. And then he has the audacity to lie about his actions and leanings.
      
      Sorry, I don't sling *****. Nor does my comment reflect that.
      - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -5/+2"your zeal to capitalize of bigotry and racism" isn't slinging *****? I had already read the article. fleischner's post had nothing to do with the article.
        
        What exactly are you claiming he lied about? He was born a Muslim? Why, because that is what some arcane religious "law" claims? A law he says he doesn't recognize?
        
        I have no problem with you not liking him for his politics. Making up some weird "he lied", as if he followed some lame ass religious "law" at birth, is just plain stupid.
      - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -4/+3And let me add (because you picked the wrong day), you WERE slinging *****, as you don't know me at all.
        
        I was one of 2 black men on my submarine. I was married for 20 years to a woman much older than me. She was not black. My present girlfriend is much younger than me, she is also not black. I have lived the majority of my life in areas that are predominately white (presently Montana). I have seen it all, from just about every side (white, latino, black). I have been VERY successful in my life, because I have never had time for people who are racist, sexist, bigoted, worried about age, etc. I take people for who they are, and what is in their heart.
        
        So, for you to so gleefully claim that I was in a hurry to be bigoted and racist shows very little thought on your part. I am bigoted against stupidity, so I will move on...
      - buddarien, on 05/13/2008, -1/+2Sorry to say that you are just not reading my comments while then taking liberties with your own.
        
        "your zeal to capitalize of bigotry and racism" isn't slinging *****? No, it is not. Next point.
        
        "What exactly are you claiming he lied about?"
        Pretty much anything that portrays him as anything less than a far left liberal. If you re-read my comment above you will see it plain as day. He has lied about his actions and his leanings. Go ahead and look.
        
        "I am bigoted against stupidity, so I will move on..."
        That's not how it looks from here.
    - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -2/+3Amen to that Buddarien!
      
      Any way one looks at it, Obama lied, and is not being forthright about his religious past regardless of his motives. When looking for someone to protect our Constitution, Obama has proven to me that he is simply not up to the task and this is just one more thing to add to the list.
Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -5/+20Isn't it worse in radical Islamist minds, that Obama is considered an Apostate than had he been born Christian? Of course his probable status as "useful idiot" as seen by them probably will make for some allowances for his apostasy as long as they continue to view him as useful in some way.
- sultanknish, on 05/12/2008, -2/+11he might get a pass if they think he's doing it on taqia grounds
bluto36, on 05/12/2008, -4/+12oh oh this will make the choppers want to chop.
whats the game plan Obama? appease(meet with Iran), appease(abandon Israel), appease(withdraw forces).... Nuke Pakistan!
2knights1horse, on 05/12/2008, -5/+3I think if you convert when you are young enough, apostasy doesn't count. Or something to that effect.
- 140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -0/+5No.
  - 2knights1horse, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Here's what Robert Spencer wrote on FrontPage about it.
    
    "Yet the idea that the death penalty for apostasy has always been an element of the “fundamentals of the sacred religion of Islam” is something that some Muslims have made no effort to deny or conceal. IslamOnline, a site manned by a team of Islam scholars headed by the internationally influential Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, explains, “if a sane person who has reached puberty voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be punished."
ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -12/+14Born a Muslim? Sakes alive? What next? He wrote an essay in kindergarten saying he wanted to be President?

This stuff just gets more and more stupid...
- Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -6/+11Unfortunately the whole point of the article appears to have been lost on you. The fact that he could be considered an apostate and therefore not protectable by ANY Islamic government is HUGE.
  
  The fact that he was born a Muslim by itself is less important than the fact that he converted to a different religion, a "crime" which is punishable by death in some Islamic countries. Hopefully such a scenario wouldn't happen but it's something to take into account when dealing with the many Islamic countries around the world, places we obviously already have diplomatic issues in and it appears that Obama isn't likely to improve unless he resorts to appeasing. That should be troubling.
  
  From the article:
  "Because no government is likely to allow the prosecution of a President Obama — not even those of Iran and Saudi Arabia, the only two countries where Islamic religious courts dominate over secular law — another provision of Muslim law is perhaps more relevant: it prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing."
  - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -5/+9I commented in another thread on this. You do realize that this article makes it that Obama will be HATED by Muslims, right? There is no appeasing, according to their "law". You are adding in the appeasement part on your own.
    
    So the point of the article wasn't lost on me. The silly spin WAS.
    
    I find it telling that LGF is on one hand saying the Muslims want Obama in power, because he is a former Muslim, and then posting this article, which says the Muslims will hate him.
    
    I am an LGF member, but this stuff is just getting more and more stupid, as I said in my first post.
    
    LGF's stance now: "Don't vote for Obama. He is a closet Muslim". "Don't vote for Obama, the Muslim hate him so he will have to kiss their ass".
    
    Really, which is it?
    - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -5/+13The jizya is just one such forms of Appeasement by Islamic law... don't fool yourself, if the extremists view something as beneficial to their cause, they will allow it and have allowed it to happen. After all, Islamic law permits lying to unbelievers if it is beneficial to the cause.
      
      There is no conflict and I'll try to explain it to you. Obama's obviously got a problem when it comes to Islam, something the other presidential candidates lack on such an intimate level BTW.
      Why would Islamic extremists want to support Obama then? Could it be that he is the most likely candidate to get them what they want based on his campaign promises? Is it possible they could use as leverage, the fact that he is an apostate to get even more appeasing from him?
      
      Obama's Muslim past could be troubling IF he has been indoctrinated in his youth by Islamic extremists, and only through political expediency, chose to convert to a racist form of Christianity explained away by the concept of Taqiyya (google it). If this is the case, then that would be most extremely troubling, however no hard evidence has come to light about this, however it is enough to cause pause in many folks as there is no way to know for sure, we just have to take Obama at his word. There is no conflict if this is indeed the case, as Obama would then never have been an apostate due to Taqiyya.
      
      So the possibilities based on the evidence are either:
      1) Obama is a stealth muslim candidate that has chosen to hide his religion based on political expediency at best, or as a sort of Manchurian candidate at worst. (either way he lied about who he is).
      2) Obama, has in good faith, converted to some form of Christianity, and therefore an Apostate, making him a target and an enemy of the Islamic extremists. In which case, Obama has a motive for Appeasement and based on campaign promises, it doesn't sound to me like Obama would be too unwilling to accept.
      
      So can you tell me, which is it?
      - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -4/+3"So can you tell me, which is it?"
        
        Uh, NEITHER? Your assumptions say more about you than the facts.
        
        1.) "Stealth Muslim"? Manchurian candidate? Dude, you need to step back and think about what you are saying. He was born into a family that had a Muslim father. He wrote extensively about not caring about religion for most of his life. Your premise is about as paranoia filled as a bad B-movie.
        
        2) Why does he have to appease anyone in fanatical Islam? Because you say so? Or, maybe, he is an AMERICAN, and wants to do what is right for AMERICA. Despite your myopic view, everyone is not required to be a hard core right wing "God Fearing" Christian, to have good intentions for their country. You seem to make clearly fabricated assumptions, based on some simplistic view that this is the "only way it can be".
        
        I was born Protestant. By your logic, if I become president, I would have to somehow appease the Catholics, because your world view is so religion centric.
        
        Really, step back, think about how narrow minded you are being on this.
      - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -3/+6If you think that lying about your religious beliefs and past is not troubling for a presidential candidate, I suppose there's not much more I can say to persuade you.
        
        SSN said: "Why does he have to appease anyone in fanatical Islam? Because you say so?"
        
        No, because of his campaign promises, which include our complete withdrawal from Iraq that shows he is all to willing to grant the extremists what they want, as evidenced in their verbal support of him.
        
        Also, your anti christian bigotry is showing. Please support your argument by showing where the Pope has ever demanded that a Protestant President appease Catholics? I on the other hand can give you scripture, if you are so inclined, where such things are demanded of Islamic unbelievers. This is not bigotry, but fact.
      - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -5/+3No need to quote scripture. Your religious fanaticism is on display for all to see. Exactly how did he lie about his religious beliefs?
        
        Actually, forget it. You are so caught up in this religious dogma, it is clear you are not interested in anything else.
        
        Tell me when a Muslim demanded appeasement from Obama though, since you completely twisted my argument, for the sake of your pretense? Again I say, it is only in YOUR mind that Obama would feel like he has to appease radical Islam for anything.
        
        If you want to play "quote the scriptures" I can give you MULTIPLE quotes from the Bible or the Koran that are disgusting. You are correct though: I think very little of people who have to rely on either for their morality, OR use either to further their own immorality.
      - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -2/+6Hmm, I'm not sure where you feel that I have any religious fanaticism, other than the fact that I am offended by your attempt to unfairly and without supporting evidence, equate Christianity to Islamic extremism. I would do that with any religion I felt was unfairly treated in the same way as I find it is unhelpful only only serves to "pollute the waters" so to speak. I will support Agnostics if I feel they are unfairly treated as well, just as I will call out Atheists who are pushing their "religious Dogma" down my throat. If that makes me a religiously fanatic, then so be it, but I implore you, if you wish to criticize a religion with me, I would ask that you do so from a standpoint of knowledge and research.
        
        Now, I think I see how you are misunderstanding what I was saying about appeasement. I have attempted to show that it is Obama's stated policies that show he is weak on standing up to Islamic extremism. The fact that he is an Apostate, makes him a target, more so than any other candidate, if indeed that is the case. If he is not a target, then what are the likely answers?
        
        1) he has always been a Muslim and therefore not an apostate, or 2) he has appeased the extremists into not harming him as long as he is useful.
        
        If he is a target because of apostasy, then that makes his ability to handle tough situations in the Islamic world all the more complicated then if he had just been born a Christian (or religion of your choice here). This is something to take into consideration when choosing a candidate. If that candidate also has goals that sound like appeasement, wouldn't it stand to reason that he might try MORE appeasement to placate those that have just one more reason not to like him?
        
        I'm glad it sounds like we have some common ground to agree upon though that folks shouldn't force their religion/morality on others.
      - 4wheel, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1Klingon00, you can't fix stupid, and it's pointless to argue with it. You can attempt logic all day, but stupid doesn't get logic.
- bluto36, on 05/12/2008, -2/+14i am personally not mad At Obama for being born Muslim, fine by me, BUT he may have some problems with other Muslim and that may be a concern.
  maybe this is a good chance for Obama to get some tuff guy cred and tell the Muslim world that he is an apostate and they can cram it in their cram holes if they don't like it.... and i am going to nuke Pakistan
  - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -2/+8LOL, now THAT might get me on his team!
LadyKofNYC, on 05/12/2008, -17/+10Oh look more Muslim-hating bigotry on Little Gangrene Testicles.

What a surprise.
- fleischner, on 05/12/2008, -6/+19Sure. To the Left any statement of pure fact can be considered "hate" and "bigotry" if it wants to. Nice argument.
  - LadyKofNYC, on 05/12/2008, -14/+8Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that while you continue to search the Internet for more reasons why the Moooooslims the world over are Eeeeevil, bigot.
    - InRussetShadows, on 05/12/2008, -5/+18And you wonder why I won't friend you...*shaking head*. Obama was born a Muslim. What does this mean to Muslim theologians, the jihadists (who are popular in the Middle East), and many (if not most) Muslims? Well, it means that Obama must be killed. According to the Koran, the penalty for leaving the Muslim faith is death. It is not bigotry to point out that this is what they believe, that this is what they practice, and that it is, uncontrovertibly, retrograde.
      - vault, on 05/12/2008, -6/+9(s)he mass-friended a ton of people. I'm on it, too.
      - jcm267, on 05/12/2008, -6/+8They want to kill the President of the US anyways. This shouldn't make much of a difference.
      - card51short, on 05/12/2008, -12/+5sort of like how Salman Rushdie was supposed to be killed, right?
        
        Give me a break...
      - bluto36, on 05/12/2008, -3/+11ok then tuff guy go get your Satanic Verses and your Salman Rushdie Halloween mask and hit the Friday night prayers.
        
        because Muslims never carry out their Death Sentences, right?
      - Beveridge89, on 05/12/2008, -3/+6There are a lot of Americans who like to criticise us for appeasing extremist muslims. If your suggesting a legitimate reason for not voting Obama is that it will piss of radical islam, then you've really gone far beyond us.
      - Troika37, on 05/13/2008, -1/+5Card - yeah, and that Van Gough guy... Whatever happened to him, anyway?
        
        Please point me to a link where Rushdie's death sentence has been rescinded.
  - jcm267, on 05/12/2008, -7/+10"Lady" K is actually part of America's right-wing Israel-hating, Hamas-supporting fringe. Don't mind him.
    - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -4/+11Sorry, but I refuse to recognize Ron Paul or his supporters as being right wing. 9-11 conspiracy theorist, Israel-hating, Hamas-Supporting are adjectives more associated with the left and anarchists in this country if anything. Using Libertarian arguments doesn't make one right-wing when the end goals look an awful lot like the left.
      - ssn697, on 05/13/2008, -6/+4Ron Paul wants a Christian nation, where abortions are illegal, gays have no rights, and you can't run for office if you are an athiest. He wants tiny government? That isn't right wing to you? How ***** far right ARE you?
    - 140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -2/+11?? It's LEFT wingers that hate Israel. It's LEFT wingers that support Hamas. Paradoxical, but everybody knows it.
      BTW, Hitler was a LEFT winger (you know, of course, that the full name of the Nazi party is the National SOCIALIST Party)
      And for those that say that was in name only...no it was not. The Nazis took over most of Germany's economy. Hey! that's what socialists and Communists do!
      - jcm267, on 05/12/2008, -3/+4What does Hitler being a left winger have to do with anything? Ron Paul's ultra small-government mantra is anything but left wing.
      - vault, on 05/12/2008, -3/+5It's the fringe left and right.
- InRussetShadows, on 05/12/2008, -5/+16Islam decrees that leaving the faith is a death sentence. That's not bigotry, but fact. In fact, it's straight out of the Koran, unless I miss my guess and it's out of the hadith, which has equal force in Islamic societies and in the Islamic worldview, largely.
  - ssn697, on 05/12/2008, -4/+4So, where are you going with this? Fanatical Islam wants Bush dead, and he was never a Muslim. What exactly is the point? Somehow this makes Obama more of a target?
    
    If you REALLY want to get down to it, the Christian religion says if you don't accept Christ, you are going to hell. Pretty harsh stuff as well. Christians are condemning every Muslim?
    
    The only point I can get out of this entire article is some roundabout claim that somehow Obama will try to appease radical Islam because they hate him. Is there some other point to this?
    - Klingon00, on 05/12/2008, -3/+5SSN said: "If you REALLY want to get down to it, the Christian religion says if you don't accept Christ, you are going to hell. Pretty harsh stuff as well. Christians are condemning every Muslim?"
      
      Again, the difference is the Christian wont be the one sending you there. Can the same be said for Islamic extremists?
      
      Not to get OT on a religious discussion, but the difference is in the belief in what happens to you after you've lived your life and die vs. what should happen to you while you are still alive MUST be made clear.
nomorepaul, on 05/12/2008, -12/+8Buried as inaccurate and bigoted.
- fleischner, on 05/12/2008, -3/+9You: laughed at as stupid and blind.
- 140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -3/+7The NY Times is inaccurate? Obama was not, as the NYTimes says, born a Muslim?
Zacktopia, on 05/12/2008, -3/+12As usual it's not the thing itself that is a big deal, it's having lied about it. I wonder how long Ye Olde Grey Lady sat on this story to minimize the impact. If you know it has to come out, what better time than after he's the presumptive nominee, but as far in advance of the general election campaign for the news cycle to run out.
- 140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -3/+8Right u are
Chip53, on 05/12/2008, -4/+11Muslim, schmuslim. The guy doesn't have what it takes to be president. He's only been in the senate long enough to get the seat warm and you dumbasses want to make him president?
140Suffolk, on 05/12/2008, -3/+9A lot of you miss one of the main points of the article. Since are admitting that the Obama campaign LIED straight out on this matter. Repeatedly.
Since the NY Times says Obama was born and raised as a Muslim, and the Obama campaign repeatedly swore he was never a Muslim that means Obama is a liar !
- jsmagid, on 05/13/2008, -1/+0Since you apparently need help in how to read English, allow me to help: "It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion." As Obama's father had ALREADY renounced his religion, how is it that the article in any way implies that Obama was raised as a Muslim?
Verchiel77, on 05/12/2008, -10/+1The brown peril brigade strikes again, albeit quite poorly, as usual:

FTA: In ***Islam***, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim ***under Muslim law as it is universally understood***. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, ***under Muslim law*** based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.
-----------------------------

If you don't follow a religion or its traditions, why would you consider its faith-based pronouncements about you to have any weight, whatsoever?

Exceedingly pathetic attempt to gin up a "lie" where none exists.
dandan111, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).
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NY Times Admits Obama's Muslim Birth

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