NSA copies and retains ALL internet traffic!!!!! watch!
abcnews.go.com — One man uncovers NSA proving at ATT building - "Secret" room included. LA Times killed the story when they had a chance to uncover this illegal practice.
ljrdxyh- 3547 diggs
- digg it
- ljrdxyh, on 07/10/2008, -22/+326This is really scary stuff - please digg and shout with all your friends.
- buddypriefert, on 07/10/2008, -67/+9Bah, who cares. Spy on me all you like and bore yourself to death. Won't find anything threatening here so I'm not worried. Some people like to flatter themselves as a movie star as if the government (which is "us" by the way) really cares that they are cheating on their girlfriend, fingerbanging their cat, or whatever insecurity they have.
Unless you are building nukes in your basement, try spending more time on the positive things in life than worry about making yourself feel so important.- bigfinger, on 07/10/2008, -48/+7I'm going to get insta buried for this, but I agree. I don't have ***** to hide. I have nothing of interest to anyone, except my girlfriend. "Oh knows, someone might see what my World of Warcraft /played time is" so what. I highly doubt 99.9999% of diggers are doing anything that the NSA gives a ***** about. I do hope they catch the next ***** that tries to blow some ***** up though.
- mtvkilledusall, on 07/10/2008, -2/+68People like you are exactly why this is happening today.
Just because you're not doing anything illeagal today, doesn't mean by some off chance that you won't be doing anything illegal tomorrow.
You may not be building bombs in your basement, but who knows? Maybe next week you will be doing something like criticizing the government, but oops, in this hypothetical situation, that was outlawed.
Because of this stripping of the 4th amendement, everyone is a suspect.
This constitutional right is now GONE. What is to stop them from taking away more constitutional rights? NOT YOU. - dOOBiEx213, on 07/10/2008, -4/+34You're right. We should all install Telescreens in our homes, it's not like we have anything to be afraid of right? You, my man, are the definition of a retard. Please kill yourself. Secondly, "WE" the people, are not in charge of the government. Those people that are stripping away OUR freedoms, making billions off illegal wars, imprisoning their own citizens, exploiting third world countries... THEY are the government.
- itsthebrod, on 07/10/2008, -0/+36It's not about "feeling important" you moron, it's about one of the most basic and essential personal liberties - privacy. It doesn't matter if what you do in your home, the government should not have a right to invade your privacy unconstitutionally. Your attitude sickens me, and it's sad to think that that's the attitude Americans have nowadays. Why did we even form this country? Why did we set up a Constitution? Why did so many people die in defending this county and its freedoms? So lazy, ignorant ***** like you can sit on a website rationalizing why the government illegally retaining records about our activities and not caring. Perhaps a near future similar to that of "1984" won't be bad to you, but to anyone with half a brain and who believes in what this country was founded on, it's disgusting.
- ruddy, on 07/10/2008, -0/+29READ ANIMAL FARM, then talk. It's a nice little paper back, you'll learn a ton.
He who gives up liberty for security deserves neither. This isn't about weather you are hiding anything or not, it's about you loosing your civil liberties in the name of "security", or whatever ***** "War on.." they call it. - dopste, on 07/10/2008, -2/+45When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
after all I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out. - sn4ke666, on 07/10/2008, -1/+15If things keep going the way they are, I won't be surprised if half the comments made on digg wouldn't be put into little files on the users' level of patriotism and danger to the Party.
- siszam, on 07/10/2008, -6/+3"fingerbanging their cat,"
What the hell is wrong with you?!! I hope your mommy read this and takes your pets away and gets you some help. - PoopStick, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
And here we are its been happening for awhile now and since no one has done anything about it well i guess we get what we deserve. - Kristijan12, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2The ***** problem is, majority of other nations are going to do the same thing about liberty rights following the example of the US, and than whe are all screwed.
- ihavebeenseen, on 07/10/2008, -7/+4What did you reallly think Road Runner was for?
- damonic, on 07/10/2008, -0/+88This is the exact reason my email signature contains the following information:
TELINT UOP assassination Adriatic threat BLU-97 A/B MDA 22nd SAS
Cohiba IMF SAFE Honduras Bin Laden UMTS AMEMB
Pine Gap monarchist IRA CID national information infrastructure KGB
cracking INS electronic surveillance weapons of mass destruction Elvis
mailbomb subversive Crowell Europol
CDC Guantanamo War on Terrorism CIDA Rumsfeld Bletchley Park secure
Bruxelles Ft. Meade Croatian Mossad NWO Belknap Albanian cybercash
Albanian Skipjack espionage militia nuclear Steve Case MIT-LL SCUD
missile bomb KGB enigma Belknap Ansar al-Islam Serbian jihad
spy high security bootleg UMTS Ron Brown STARLAN benelux Bletchley
Park S Box Merlin 22nd SAS ammunition subversive Soviet fissionable
fissionable Venezuela MIT-LL Vince Foster Fortezza Delta Force 9705
Samford Road Cocaine passwd David John Oates espionage White House
covert video secure spy- cyberwiz01, on 07/10/2008, -1/+45Thanks a lot. Now we're ALL on some NSA watchlist!
- intangible, on 07/10/2008, -1/+30You forgot ECHELON
- maximize, on 07/10/2008, -10/+1hey damonic, its mx.
nice list. - rezonq3, on 07/10/2008, -3/+44Damn, a light bulb just went off in my head. What if we ALL did that? All of our user names and computers had this kind of stuff all over them? All of our computers randomly sent out pings to the terrorist training websites and how to build a bomb sites. And by ALL I mean everyone in America.
They wouldn't be able to tell the real stuff from the fake. Their entire purpose for logging everything would be null and void. Talk about telling The Man to eat a ***** sandwich. - sarixe, on 07/10/2008, -5/+10rezonq3: 1) you're assuming that was their purpose, 2) why foil them if that's really what their purpose is?
you're not making much sense. - Bob042, on 07/10/2008, -1/+13Now you don't even need to worry about backing things up, just ask the NSA if you lose a hard drive.
- Rotzooi, on 07/10/2008, -0/+6I love that you put Elvis in there. FTW
- rezonq3, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1@sarixe
Just a thought. They are fixing what isn't broke.
If all of their data is worthless, maybe they would go back to the way it used to do it with FISA since it seemed to be getting the job done. - betacmag4u, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3http://www.bugbrother.com/echelon/spookwordsgenera ...
- rhinofinger, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2You forgot Poland.
- mikephimikephi, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2Black Briar
- armyabn1, on 07/10/2008, -17/+3I am quite sure NSA does NOT retain "all internet traffic" ....that sounds more like Google. And in any case, at least if NSA did do that, at least there would be some laws regulating what could be infinitely retained and what could be done with it....no such laws for Google......
- trickyt, on 07/10/2008, -4/+18They would have to be buying and hooking up thousands of brand new terabyte hard drives every day. That room would be overflowing in about a week.
- MacEnvy, on 07/10/2008, -3/+15@trickyt
You actually think that the NSA would be using *consumer* hardware? Or that they couldn't get their hands on high density long-term storage? These people have access to top-level black ops and the heart of DARPA - tech we won't see in public for a decade.
I don't know whether they actually capture and save all traffic, but I believe they could if they wanted to. - NJank, on 07/10/2008, -0/+9ahhh naivety. it's funny sometimes.
- cJw314, on 07/10/2008, -0/+9...and we all know how the NSA follows the "laws" about surveillance, don't we?
/sarcastic sigh at you - DivisibleByZero, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2Yeah, they most likely "retain" stuff until they've done whatever filtering they use to see if you're a spy. The amount of storage space and computing power to search retroactively through old data to find something would be insane.
Feel free to be upset about them doing the filtering in the first place though. That's some pretty shady stuff, but whether or not they're retaining it isn't really something to worry about. - nigh7dagger, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7Think of how many hard drives of nothing but porn and cats they would have.
- didiman, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1It's not possible to store all internet traffic, and anyone who believes that is simply a fool.
- tpearl, on 07/10/2008, -27/+1Why is this scary stuff????
- trejrco, on 07/10/2008, -2/+57No, shouts are inconsiderate and annoying ... and should be removed from Digg.
- xxMarka, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1Decrepit bald man said it best...
- BenWhitey, on 07/10/2008, -13/+1This is lame. This is all old news.
http://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Dispatches-Secret-Gl ...
Old news guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON- seventoes, on 07/11/2008, -0/+3Unless every single person in America is aware of this, it is not old news.
- crimsonnblue, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6Yes it is scary. Unfortunately I'm not too surprised. It's completely ridiculous that the NSA are allowed to do this.
- jcannonb, on 07/10/2008, -1/+9SSH should take over the entire Internet and allow anyone to establish a secure tunnel to any IP destination we need/choose to visit.
- JLobes, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Christ.
1. They're not allowed to do this.
2. This story is 15 MONTHS OLD
3. Have you guys not been paying attention to the news for the last year? Spygate? FISA? Any of this ringing a bell?- cJw314, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4We should be praying... absolutely.
"1. They're not allowed to do this."
...again, what makes you think "they" don't do "what they're told they can't" do? - JLobes, on 07/10/2008, -0/+0Obviously they did it. My reply was more to point out that this happened more than a year ago. Part 1 was directed towards CrimsonnBlue's comment that, "It's completely ridiculous that the NSA are allowed to do this."
- cJw314, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4We should be praying... absolutely.
- masamunecyrus, on 07/10/2008, -1/+11What the heck are the logistics of this? You'd need all the hard drives in the world to copy all of the internet traffic that goes through the USA. We're not even talking about the mammoth of information that is stored on the internet, we're talking about the TRAFFIC. We're talking 50 gigabytes per SECOND.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_traffic- drinking12many, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7Ive seem some damn impressive computer setups in corporations but I know Ive never seen one that can store 50GB a sec or anywhere close to that. Ive seen some that can do 2 or 3 GB a sec. But usually that would take 20 or 30 drives running raid 0 on a pretty beefy machine. SO i guess you could have 30 or 40 of those but that would only last a couple hours at most until they were totally full. Stop being so paranoid people.
- sporg, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2I don't believe they would want to copy all internet traffic only things they deem interesting like financial transactions, business data, email communications etc etc but then again who knows what they get up to with all that money.
"Classified Pentagon spending has increased by nearly 48% to about $27 billion since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-11-08 ... - asdffdas1234, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2More importantly that is 2002 numbers and only for the US backbones. World wide and including all exchange points for 2002 was estimated at 30TB a sec. The 2008 numbers are some 10 to 50 times higher than 2002.
- antoniuk, on 07/10/2008, -9/+2God are we really this stupid? I do not think the NSA is going to care that you surf tranny porn so calm down sheep!
- Winston84, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3Profiling & relational databases ..
You think they are doing it for fun ?
- Winston84, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3Profiling & relational databases ..
- lithera, on 07/10/2008, -2/+6Now there is a good source of porn... where can I sign up for a admin job?
- yuanzhoulu, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3so who cares? encrypt all your sensitive transmissions. it's easy to use high enough encryption that the NSA won't be able to decipher it unless they have working quantum computers. and as a researcher in the field of quantum information i strongly doubt they do.
- yuanzhoulu, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4i've got a plan, if they're really archiving all the internet traffic let's just start sending tons of complete ***** back and forth between new york and california, and write scripts to let others do the same.
better yet, label all the filenames of complete ***** "al_qaede_login.exe" or something. that'll keep 'em busy for a while.
losers.- fmouse, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1I actually think this is a good idea. I was thinking of this myself: make everyone spam packets containing suspect words, and I don't just mean fake threats like "terrorism" but "Illuminati", "New World Order", "Revolution", etc, everything that the government would be looking for. Generate some fake paragraphs containing these words. Then get lots of people to use it voluntarily or put some fake IP addresses in the headers so they can't tell who is really sending them.
- say592, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3I will Digg the story, simply because its important news.
However, you dont tell me to annoy my friends with shouts for YOUR story.
Shouts are ruining Digg as it is. We dont need anymore of them killing the algorithm. - TheComfyChair, on 07/10/2008, -4/+3LMFAO... I have buddies in the NSA - they'll laugh themselves silly over people believing they actually have the capability to store that much data! Their systems post-carnivore are far more intelligent than these "reporters" can even hope to understand - they sort through voluminous mountains of data from phones, paper publishers, the internet, wireless and wired taps and eavesdropping - it's all about the sorting the wheat from the chaff - catching the one nugget of gold in the stream... storing it all is useless and laughable. Besides all that, the NSA does a lot more scary sheyit than this article even comes close to touching on.
- PawnsOfJoshua, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1It's really scary...if you're a gullible ***** retard.
- kosser, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2more and more proof that Alex Jones has been right all this time. keep inserting those tired old kool aid / tinfoil comments that make me yawn, while everyday the proof keeps coming out.
- digjam, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2THIS IS SCARY...I WANT TO BE A CAVEMAN AGAIN WHERE NO ONE KNOWS WHERE WHOM HOW I M FUKING!
- EllimistX, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Well, I'd know you were ***** in a cave...
- aedenp, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1And this is the stuff we know about.
- buddypriefert, on 07/10/2008, -67/+9Bah, who cares. Spy on me all you like and bore yourself to death. Won't find anything threatening here so I'm not worried. Some people like to flatter themselves as a movie star as if the government (which is "us" by the way) really cares that they are cheating on their girlfriend, fingerbanging their cat, or whatever insecurity they have.
- Pedestrian101, on 07/10/2008, -32/+10Ohh, I want THAT supercomputer.
- Hefelumpman, on 07/10/2008, -1/+13You wouldn't even know what to do with it.
- twiztidsinz, on 07/10/2008, -4/+12Play Crysis?
- sarixe, on 07/10/2008, -3/+3twiztidsinz: couldn't even.
- norm7, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3But can it run Crysis?
- osiris24x, on 07/11/2008, -0/+3It amazes me the sort of posts people get dugg down for. I'd want THAT supercomputer too! I thought it was a valid comment.
You people seriously need to wake the ***** up and actually read comments and think for yourselves, rather than digging people up or down based on what everybody else does.- ljrdxyh, on 07/11/2008, -1/+117 diggs against out of 2600 total digss is not too bad....and vulgarity is probably not needed to state your point.
- Hefelumpman, on 07/10/2008, -1/+13You wouldn't even know what to do with it.
- Minarchian, on 07/10/2008, -33/+242***** "global warming".
Our own government has gotten a hell of a lot scarier then that *****!- PATSCRU, on 07/10/2008, -11/+45uhm i'm equally scared of both. Just because you're faced with one problem does not mean you turn a blind eye to the other.
- djepik, on 07/10/2008, -32/+12OK.
Your sitting at your desk, looking for your calculator to multiply 43 by 73. You're having a tough time finding your calculator, and then some guy comes in and stabs you.
Thankfully you won't turn a blind eye to your multiplication problem and spend some more time looking for your calculator before calling an ambulance / defending yourself from future attacks.
Awesome. I totally agree that all problems should have equal priority... - artfiend77, on 07/10/2008, -3/+22@ djepik
i think your analogy sucks. How do you equate a simple math problem versus a life or death situation to an ecological problem versus a problem with government infringing upon rights?
It'd be more realistic if you said a giant meteor hurtling towards earth VS impending Nuclear War. - akula89, on 07/10/2008, -9/+2except we have no control over a giant meteor hurtling towards earth
- marx2k, on 07/10/2008, -5/+13djepik: Worst analogy ever. You win.
- djepik, on 07/10/2008, -10/+5@artfiend77
What if I don't consider a fake ecological problem scary?
@marx2k
thx - schneid4323, on 07/10/2008, -8/+4Except global warming is just a lie made up by the Club of Rome in 1992.
Fail sir - PunkRampant, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2This thread is depressing.
- bullhead2007, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Our rulers will find a way to kill us before the planet does.
- djepik, on 07/10/2008, -32/+12OK.
- MWeather, on 07/10/2008, -3/+48The government and global warming are pretty similar. They change slowly, and by the time enough people notice, it's too late.
- Samsong, on 07/10/2008, -7/+29Scarier than man-bear-pig?
It think not. - DangerCollie, on 07/10/2008, -2/+12America: Formerly known as the land of the free.
- DrumDog2112, on 07/10/2008, -2/+7I agree, but did you mean "...scarier ****THAN**** that *****?"
- Ismith988, on 07/10/2008, -2/+4They're TRASHING our rights!
- jb0nd38372, on 07/11/2008, -0/+3What the hell, HACK THE PLANET!
- PawnsOfJoshua, on 07/10/2008, -7/+1Funny how you gullible internet retards still have the right to complain about your rights being trashed in an online forum...because personally, if i wanted to take away free speech, my first target would be the ***** internet. Dumb *****.
- Minarchian, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2That's exactly part of the problem.
It is obvious they now have the ability to "turn off" the internet.
My gut tells me "they" are just waiting for the reason.
- Minarchian, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2That's exactly part of the problem.
- jcannonb, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1http://digg.com/security/Why_does_the_Internet_sti ...
- Minarchian, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1That's an interesting article
But
What about people who don't know crap about encryption and all that other stuff.
How does a regular Joe protect himself online? - DforSpiD, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2Sorry Minarch, Joe's *****
- Minarchian, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1That's an interesting article
- ShellShock11, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1Shhh, they are monitoring you!
- Cloud7654, on 07/11/2008, -1/+3If this is true, I could be in some deep *****.
- tcsucks, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2Global warming was never anything to be scared about.
- eggdog14, on 07/11/2008, -4/+2Hmmm. . . you should try living in, say, any other country.
And then complain about "our own government."
Douchebag. - suhongy, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2Global warming is used as a distraction to keep the public from seeing the real immediate threats to the american people.
- airstrike, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2they should really make something like thannotthen.com
- PATSCRU, on 07/10/2008, -11/+45uhm i'm equally scared of both. Just because you're faced with one problem does not mean you turn a blind eye to the other.
- ljrdxyh, on 07/10/2008, -9/+53On the surface your comment sounds intelligent but how is NSA going to analyze traffic without retaining it? Why would you make a copy of traffic for? To throw it away?
My friend, you are apparently uninformed as to NSA's capabilities in this area - and that is a good thing - the problem is using this capability on US Americans.- B1663r, on 07/10/2008, -0/+24Which was just recently (effectively) legalized, iirc.
- br0ck, on 07/10/2008, -9/+2Actually, the new FISA legislation only allows surveillance of foreign persons and would specifically disallow this type of activity. It also now requires court approval of surveillance, and the FISA court is specifically tasked with making sure this type of thing doesn't happen. They are also tasked with keeping track of all of the surveillance going on and reporting it all to congress, so it would be much harder to just have some secret program requiring a telecom to monitor all traffic without anyone knowing about it.
- crazy0, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2sure it iss
- Ibox, on 07/10/2008, -8/+1"FISA" not "iirc"
- dopste, on 07/10/2008, -0/+18Actually the new FISA legislation allow the seizure of American computer equipment and tapping of American calls and INTERNET traffic if the signal starts or stops outside of the US also. They don't have to prove it in an open court of law and they can destroy the evidence of the surveillance AT ANY TIME.
It also "Removes requirements for detailed descriptions of the nature of information or property targeted by the surveillance"
It also removes the possibillity of providers and carriers being sued for co-operating in surveillance.
They do not report the details to your congress but to the FISA committee. It's the digital surveillance equivalent of the defence appropriations commitee
Combine that with the previous ammendments which allow sliding space to wiretap ANYONE at ANYTIME and I would be scared.
As it is I'm British and we're good (except for the same rules, memworth hill and the highest ratio of CCTV cameras to population in the world) ;) - B1663r, on 07/10/2008, -0/+13br0ck,
If you are an American citizen with contacts with the external "groups" that are under surveillance, you are subject to wiretapping as well.
So basically, if you are an American in the US and you know or communicate with anyone outside the US, or you have ever been outside the US, you are being spied upon. The only people who are insulated from the spying are people who don't know anyone or talk to anyone outside the US, or have never been outside the US.
So this law protects like... 12 people.
We are all under surveillance because of the British guy who posted right above me. - com2, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4'any communication that starts or stops outside the us..' like a server on foreign soil? like Pirate bay?
- mrgermy, on 07/10/2008, -10/+4US Americans. . . . Now yes, Canadians technically are Americans so you COULD be be being specific but for some reason it feels like a poke at Ms. South Carolina:
“I personally believe, that U.S. Americans,
are unable to do so,
because uh,
some, people out there, in our nation don’t have maps.
and uh…
I believe that our education like such as in South Africa,
and the Iraq,
everywhere like such as…
and, I believe they should uh,
our education over here,
in the U.S. should help the U.S.
or should help South Africa,
and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future,
for us.”- marx2k, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4MMmmm the sounds of trainwrecks
- mrgermy, on 07/10/2008, -6/+0Well since that amazing and totally improvised speech I use "and such as" in emails a lot. Though it's never been able to be as funny as "everywhere like such as..."
I guess I use it in a more, eh, correct way. Maybe not. Who knows?
Off topic though one question I have about her speech is why can the U.S. help the U.S. or South Africa but not both? - zomglolcats, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4@mrgermy: Please stop posting, thanks. Sincerely, digg.com.
- MWeather, on 07/10/2008, -0/+33I wouldn't put much past the NSA. They measure computing power by the acre instead of by the cpu.
- jabberwolf, on 07/10/2008, -1/+12The NSA would be able to STORE it yes.
But sorry working in the IT industry and setting up replicating SANs for companies, the idea of actually KEEPING it for very long, is laughable at best. It's tantamount to also claiming the moon is made of cheese.
Sorry, the NSA just tries to sift through as much traffic as possible (all traffic would be impossible), gather certain amounts that throw up red flags, keep it, analyze it, and THEN save the stuff that MIGHT be suspect.
From that they would sift and throw away even more.
Sorry but the NSA has no time, no use, no care to see what groceries you ordered online. - fatjoe, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5patriot act + nsa = gg america
- terrix, on 07/11/2008, -1/+4Problem is that its a "secret" room, no oversight, no details of what they do. Granted you can say their are secrets, but the methods of oversight, who has access to what and which people are allowed to view it and when is important. Else any agent with clearance can get damaging or valuable information and exploit it for his/her personal gain. That and any details released wouldn't shock anyone, which is why encryption exists any details released wouldn't teach people how to get around it anymore then what we know now.
- danske, on 07/11/2008, -0/+4WTF! You say the problem is using this capability on US Americans.
I beg to differ, and I have to posit that you are more woefully informed that the poster you decry.
I'm sorry, the problem is actually that the US is mistakenly under the impression that the rest of the world has no right to privacy.
I understand that there is a legitimate use for intelligence but catching all traffic routed through the US simply implies that the US has no ability to identify intelligence targets and furthemore quite simply can not be trusted as a telecoms hub for the world at large.
Way to go US, you lose the telecoms contracts in the future.
- B1663r, on 07/10/2008, -0/+24Which was just recently (effectively) legalized, iirc.
- xilni, on 07/10/2008, -41/+3Old news....
- jurnei, on 07/10/2008, -0/+20folks are obviously not aware and need to know this.
- manova, on 07/10/2008, -5/+2233/7/2007...I point this out not because an old story was submitted, but because this is an old story that the great majority of people know nothing about.
- br0ck, on 07/10/2008, -3/+9I think the majority of people do know about this since this story and its followup stories have been featured prominently many times in the main stream media (especially when the Mark Klein testified to congress) and have been on Digg 100s of times with some Digg posts having more than 3000 diggs. Why would 'telecom immunity' even be in the news every day right now if it wasn't for this story?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=+ ...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=n ... - ep53, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Dont mean to sound ignorant. But does this affect Europe and other countries or just The USA?
- krisminime, on 07/11/2008, -0/+0This is my logical guess
It would only affect you outside of the USA if the information you're trying to get hold of, say, for example, www.website.com, transfers that data through any of those 13 ISPs talked about in the video.
If you're in the UK and you want to access www.last.fm which is hosted in the UK, your data will not be intercepted
- krisminime, on 07/11/2008, -0/+0This is my logical guess
- mu0p, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Also what is scary, is now Im pretty sure the laws have changed now, its the new FISA law that changed to a point where your not allowed to speak out about this matter at all now, its now all illegal, if this man did what he did then now, it would be considered illegal, ill look up a little more about this and post in a reply.
- br0ck, on 07/10/2008, -3/+9I think the majority of people do know about this since this story and its followup stories have been featured prominently many times in the main stream media (especially when the Mark Klein testified to congress) and have been on Digg 100s of times with some Digg posts having more than 3000 diggs. Why would 'telecom immunity' even be in the news every day right now if it wasn't for this story?
- thingamajig, on 07/10/2008, -6/+41Haha its the "internet" edition of Night line - too non consequential for television apparently
- ColonelTribune, on 07/10/2008, -4/+5...or too tough to edit down to a two-minute segment.
- Berkana, on 07/10/2008, -5/+38Given that 90% of emails sent are spam, I suspect the NSA has some way of filtering it out. If not, I can't imagine how they could possibly handle the volume of traffic.
- quesi, on 07/10/2008, -1/+56If Nigeria ends up in the "Axis of Evil", we'll know that they can't filter out the spam.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -2/+6How many copies of the same email would you keep?
- Blitzenn, on 07/10/2008, -4/+23Actually, it's more likely the opposite. The Gov notoriously lags behind the general public in these areas. I sincerely doubt that they have put the dollars in the right budgets to get the right expertise to do the appropriate thing and do it better than the public versions. Just doesn't happen (I've literally been there). Most likely scenario is that the info is simply stored for a later time when they need to go back and look for specific information. No other way to sift through that much.
Secondly. There is not any physical medium large enough to store all of that data. Data is quite literally created at a rate that it is impossible (so far) to be able to store all of it for any length of time. Think about it with some common sense. If a single website gets 5 million hits in a day, that's 5 million copies of the same site travelling through the wires. You can't store all of that traffic. There just isn't enough physical media in the world to do it with yet, nor will there probably ever be. As media capacities grow, so does the volume of traffic. Traffic continually outpaces available storage volumes.
Why isn't the government going to speak up and say they aren't doing it? Because the belief that they do it serves as a deterent to some people. Some people will simply 'not go there' (wherever 'there' is) if they think someone is watching.
Frankly, unless you are already a target, your data is simply lost in the noise of that enourmous amount of data.- funkyloki, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8You should have added as far as you know, because if you are not a member of the NSA/DIA/CIA you really have no idea what kinds of technologies they might be using, techs you haven't even heard about. They have computer frames the size of several football fields, the entire underground of Fort Meade is dedicated to that. I fully believe they are capable of handling the amount of traffic. they don't store it all as noted in the interview, only what is caught by the filters, but they do listen to it ALL.
I see where you were coming from, but we should not make assumptions about their capabilities, as our liberties are on the line. - RationalXubrnce, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4 I think it's kind of naive to speak of an agency the likes of NSA as just being some government institution like they're HUD or the Pentagon or something.
- kuppoppo, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2Agreed. Diggers tend to fall victim to the myth of government competence. The government mismanages the budget, schools, the environment, and defense, yet suddenly when it comes to national security issues everyone assumes that they have some sort of immortal, unfaltering power.
- mrraven200, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2The NSA employs more mathematicians then the ENTIRE U.S. University system. They are not behind the curve, assume your e-mails are like a postcard anyone can read to be on the safe side. What I wonder is whether they can detect steganography in real time? Anyone know the answer to that one?
- Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Why wouldn't you just encrypt it? I don't care how many mathematicians you hire, properly implemented encryption is impossible to crack in any reasonable time frame. Even if it turned out they have supercomputers operating at exaflops or whatever you could just double your key length. Boom, another 100 years of Moore's law until it can be brute forced.
- funkyloki, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8You should have added as far as you know, because if you are not a member of the NSA/DIA/CIA you really have no idea what kinds of technologies they might be using, techs you haven't even heard about. They have computer frames the size of several football fields, the entire underground of Fort Meade is dedicated to that. I fully believe they are capable of handling the amount of traffic. they don't store it all as noted in the interview, only what is caught by the filters, but they do listen to it ALL.
- shitforbrains, on 07/10/2008, -8/+8I hope they're taking notes on my reply. ***** them. ***** all of their moms. ***** their grandmothers. ***** their bosses. ***** their bosses bosses. ***** them all with a huge hair covered moose disk.
- yuanzhoulu, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6i guess this moose "disk" will be more data for them.
- GianDoe, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2i absolutely love cussing - that being said, you're a classless bastard.
- shitforbrains, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1Thank you both. I hope calling me a classless bastard keeps you out of Guantanamo. ***** you, ***** your descendants, ***** everyone who knows your name. ***** them all on pungi sticks like puppets.
Please keep the applause down.
Oh also as an American we believe in a classless society, so CLASSLESS I AM and shall always be. :-)
- sombrerero, on 07/10/2008, -3/+0They use a customized version of Symantec MultiTier. I am not kidding.
- bollander, on 07/11/2008, -0/+3they handle the volume of traffic by throwing more money at the problem...your money and my money from higher taxes.
- mrraven200, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2Yet another issue where radical lefties like me and true conservatives of the Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan Bob Barr stripe can agree this NSA spying is a BAD thing and must be stopped!
- trunkster, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1I can't see how they could record all traffic and retain it. I bet it is just monitor the plain text that can be read for keywords that trigger a recording. There is no way that the government can look at encrypted data, which most terrorists probably use anyway... so what the ***** point to it all is, I have no idea.
- Berkana, on 07/10/2008, -18/+266If the NSA copies and retains all internet traffic, then Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and George Bush's conveniently missing e-mails must be on file somewhere. I actually wouldn't be so angry if the NSA were to pull his emails out to nail the creep for his crimes.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -7/+7Its pretty foolish to think that modern corrupt and self-serving government agencies are not smart enough to avoid what eventually led to the downfall of the German Stasi and nazi leadership. A simple thing like not keeping self-incriminating records is not exactly too complex for top level government technology.
- markgl, on 07/10/2008, -3/+4isn't that the point of retaining internet data anyways? duh.
- bitbytebit, on 07/10/2008, -0/+21they are .. they'll keep them 'for a rainy day', don't believe for a minute that the NSA is on the same page as the Whitehouse (or the CIA or FBI for that matter) they all have their own agenda's.
In my mind the CIA is the one thats the worst as far as a 'NWO' is concerned, the NSA is the ears, whitehouse the mouth, fbi the hands, and the cia is the brain (pretty good analogy no?)- ajbl, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2Wow... that's imagining quite a bit of cooperation between agencies that are historically known for rivalry...
- PrincessSalami, on 07/10/2008, -2/+9and the boobs are the common folk right?
- bitbytebit, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3I said 'and they all have their own agenda's.'
there is very little cooperation, but they all want power in their own way
and LOL princess - hakkola, on 07/10/2008, -0/+6I'm going to motorboat the ***** out of the common folk.
- jraff2, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6The missing emails were most likely internal, and never traversed the public internet...So they probably weren't captured.
- Berkana, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4They were sent using Republican email addresses, rather than Whitehouse email addresses, in violation of the law. Karl Rove actually accidentally sent a hand full of his e-mails to the wrong address, exposing his involvement in "voter caging" to suppress voting in areas which were unfavorable to Republicans:
http://digg.com/politics/Karl_Rove_Accidently_Emai ...
- Berkana, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4They were sent using Republican email addresses, rather than Whitehouse email addresses, in violation of the law. Karl Rove actually accidentally sent a hand full of his e-mails to the wrong address, exposing his involvement in "voter caging" to suppress voting in areas which were unfavorable to Republicans:
- jontalisman, on 07/10/2008, -8/+36Dugg, but tell me something I don't know already...
- Skuzzlbut, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3agreed
- dopste, on 07/10/2008, -3/+3spiders can tapdance....I bet you didn't know that!. It's not true either but....
- crimsonnblue, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1I see what you did there.
- jontalisman, on 07/14/2008, -0/+1Charlotte probably good have but she had webs to build.
- jontalisman, on 07/15/2008, -0/+1Could have...lol
- ButterBuddha, on 07/10/2008, -23/+69NSA = Google
- TheImaginator, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Are you serious?
OMG- Teck64, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5type your name on google and find out.
- texpundit, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5^^ HA! That's what I love about having a generic name and not putting it up anywhere on the web. 20,000 hits and none of them are me. :D
- Codwhy, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1im on the second page... ='(
- dOOBiEx213, on 07/10/2008, -0/+14...and myspace, and facebook, and any social-networking site....
- wedges, on 07/10/2008, -1/+22NSA = Google = BuyNLarge
- MrLunar, on 07/10/2008, -3/+1Is that from left to right or right to left?
- Phocas, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6The Government Owns Digg!
- elbarto89, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6NSA = Google = SkyNet
- Ihatepolitics, on 07/10/2008, -2/+4NSA = Google = CFR = AIPAC = Bilderberg = bankers = Dr Evil
no seriously.google is now a member of CFR.
Ever Wonder why you see the same main stream media sites when you google for news? They want to shape your opinion.- gcnaddict, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3I thought you hated politics...
- CAisBacK, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1NSA = Google = Digg= Stupid Comments = We all go to Guantanamo
- TheImaginator, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Are you serious?
- KoolHow, on 07/10/2008, -7/+52Yes this is an old story. But it is a recurring story. And we have just seen how the telecoms got off the hook (by senate vote) for the warrant-less wiretapping.
Most people who are watching what is going on in the world today probably already suspect this. Sure the government can say this is to fight terrorism, but the 'eyes' of the system can be directed toward any word/word phrase/originating or receiving email address with a few clicks at a computer terminal at NSA. And the database behind the system can match records on any email attributes. So there is no privacy at all.
Big Brother is NOW!!!!!
Speak out to retain your/our freedom. The only way to prevent complete shroud is for people dedicated to freedom and free speech speaking out and communicating with the world. When we don't exercise our rights we lose them (quickly).
www.changing-history.com- sovereign3, on 07/10/2008, -8/+2You people act like the government is kicking down your doors and hauling you off to the Gulag. The NSA storing that much information is probably more trouble than it's worth. How could they possibly trace all that data to one individual? Let alone you or someone you know. Do you really think the NSA is interested on what you buy on eBay or whose wall you posted onto on Facebook?
If you're worried about storing Internet traffic, you should be more worried about Echelon.- KoolHow, on 07/10/2008, -1/+7In Orwell's '1984' the government was spying on every activity of every individual. Not that they could see everyone at a given instant, but they had the ability to look closely at anyone. And there were lots of people who were paid to do so. Thinking certain thoughts, or reading certain material, or discussing certain topics, would land you in jail for indefinite periods and be charged with varying crimes. The current topic is alQaeda, but who knows what the government will pursue next (or us currently pursuing now)? Streaming your and my data, searching for key points is trivial stuff technically, but very complicated when it comes to the protection of personal privacy.
It is NOT, and should NOT be, the place of government to spy on people's personal lives. Secret tools of the nature that NSA is using are not the place of government! Period.
- KoolHow, on 07/10/2008, -1/+7In Orwell's '1984' the government was spying on every activity of every individual. Not that they could see everyone at a given instant, but they had the ability to look closely at anyone. And there were lots of people who were paid to do so. Thinking certain thoughts, or reading certain material, or discussing certain topics, would land you in jail for indefinite periods and be charged with varying crimes. The current topic is alQaeda, but who knows what the government will pursue next (or us currently pursuing now)? Streaming your and my data, searching for key points is trivial stuff technically, but very complicated when it comes to the protection of personal privacy.
- brjohnson789, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5And people in the dumbed down populace like soverign3 think that its no big deal if someone spies on them since they're doing nothing wrong. Well why don't you live in a glass house then? Taking a crap isn't doing anything wrong either, but I don't need people watching me. Its not some nebulous entity collecting this data and looking at it, its regular people. And if you think the NSA couldn't trace down all the internet traffic you've generated and then build a 99% accurate profile of who you are and what you actually would do in a crisis, then you're just a moron.
- sovereign3, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1Do you really think the NSA is spying on YOU? What are you? A nuclear arms dealer?
It's well-known that most private companies have more data on you and what you do than the big bad NSA. Companies such as Choicepoint haves more data than with what the NSA would know what to do. Google archives all of your searches via their site and Amazon tracks every item you buy or even look at. Hell, even Netflix tracks what you watch. You think Digg doesn't monitor what stories you Digg and comment on?
Where's the outrage there? The NSA's capability are hardly anything compared to what you ALLOW commercial enterprises to know about you. - brjohnson789, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2I'm not outraged at what the companies have because I enter into those transactions willingly, you dummy. The gov't has no business recording all my phone calls, cause its none of their business. That's why there WAS a 4th amendment.
- sovereign3, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1Who said anything about wiretapping? That's not what I was discussing.
Regardless if you give private companies "willingly," do you think Amazon is going to ask you for permission before they sell your info to a third party? Or what about the government?
- sovereign3, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1Do you really think the NSA is spying on YOU? What are you? A nuclear arms dealer?
- sovereign3, on 07/10/2008, -8/+2You people act like the government is kicking down your doors and hauling you off to the Gulag. The NSA storing that much information is probably more trouble than it's worth. How could they possibly trace all that data to one individual? Let alone you or someone you know. Do you really think the NSA is interested on what you buy on eBay or whose wall you posted onto on Facebook?
- TritonX, on 07/10/2008, -2/+68I'm just wondering, how is this technically possible ?
- ljrdxyh, on 07/10/2008, -15/+15you intercept everything - copy - analyze - discard what looks innocent enough - pursue what doesn't. Technically very feasible.
- cawpin, on 07/10/2008, -5/+21No it isn't. You think they actually retain everything for any time at all? That is not possible.
- opmike, on 07/10/2008, -2/+12"you intercept everything - copy - analyze - discard what looks innocent enough"
You say this as if it's a simple endeavor. The sheer amount internet activity would preclude them from looking at "everything". - crimsonnblue, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3It sounds like there is no retaining, but an analysis of passing data. The split he was referring to was connected to all the major backbones of the internet...
- TritonX, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3So all internet traffic pass in the USA ? I'm sure they are spying on american citizens, but as far as I know the internet is not only in the USA. My bet is that the title is inaccurate because they couldn't get ALL the internet traffic through s simple node, there is nothing fast enough yet to manage that kind of traffic without bringing the internet to a crawl.
- xation, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5You, my friend, have watched Deja Vu one too many times.
- whoreable, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2^^I read this article 4 1/2 days ago.
- nathanww, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1Really, the problem is in the "intercept everything" part. This is almost impossible on the current Internet architecture(not to mention the fact that a good deal is encrypted and you can't acsess it anyway)
- moxley, on 07/10/2008, -17/+5They have technology that is so far ahead of everyone else as to almost render it unbeleivable or in the realm of science fiction.
- chuckDontSurf, on 07/10/2008, -2/+5And do you have any evidence of this?
- spritom, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1The Scarfo case is an example of this. Here's some of what came out in the court case:
* Scarfo was suspected of being a mob/criminal type
* FBI secretly finds encrypted files on his computer, copies them, takes them back to HQ
* FBI attempts to crack the encryption...but fails
* FBI then secretly puts keylogger on Scarfo's computer and gets his password for the file
The third point is the key...you...me...everybody outside the Gub'mint figures cracking a strong encryption is a waste of time. Sure..crack through a protocol (like they finally did the old fashioned way)...but attempting to crack the encryption itself? That's science fiction, right? Surely the FBI would know this. But the point is that they tried. So what super-secret technology do they think they have? Or have they been successful before at cracking strong encryption? - Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1They probably just ran a dictionary attack and went through some shorter alphanumeric keys then gave up. I'm sure it works sometimes.
- jadacyrus, on 07/10/2008, -19/+3Moxley isnt so far off actually.. I used to work for an astrophysicist who used to do engineering contracts for the US Military building and inventing things. Because he was highly intelligent he was very deep into top secret stuff in the goverment and told me that the technology our goverment possess is and can be 400 years ahead of what the general public knows about.
- aphexcoil, on 07/10/2008, -1/+8So where is the USS Enterprise being constructed?
- diggstown, on 07/10/2008, -0/+16@jadacyrus: You sir are either full of ***** or unbelievably naive.
Who the ***** came up with the number 400 years? You can't even attempt to trend technology capabilities to 50 years. Way to throw ***** up in the air! - kyletehgreat, on 07/10/2008, -1/+8he told you that so you'd stfu and stop asking him questions about it.
- itsthebrod, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4Was that "astrophysicist" named Bob Lazar by chance? Because he sounds about as crazy as Lazar...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar (for the lazy/ignorant ones)
- iMOSESi, on 07/10/2008, -4/+9Actually, it is a processed described as OEO, optical-electrical-optical, and is not new technology. This has been deployed throughout fiber optic networks since their conception. To achcive the NSA's goal one must simply duplicate the electrical portion of the process and route that data to their devices. Then you screen the data based on key words and complex algorithims which the NSA probably developed.
- TritonX, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Can anyone calculate how fast their hardrives should operate to record everything. How about when they search in this database, can you imagine what kind of system has to be behind this?
- Qumahlin, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2For those asking storage questions you must realize they are not truly storing everything, nor are they storing it for long.
- altgeeky1, on 07/10/2008, -3/+13There's probably "a few billion here and there" for mass storage.
We print that much money every day for Iraq... it's not that far fetched to see this level of investment in "intelligence". - jraff2, on 07/10/2008, -3/+3http://www.narus.com/
- mrswirl, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Why is jraff2 getting dugg down?
Narus is the company that manufactures the device that intercepts and copies the traffic.
It's called "Semantic Traffic Analyzer". Go look it up.
- mrswirl, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Why is jraff2 getting dugg down?
- skyshock1, on 07/10/2008, -5/+3It's not technically possible. The volume of electricity to power such a storage infrastructure doesn't yet exist on earth.
- PhotonCannon, on 07/11/2008, -0/+7"on earth"...
- tvanwyk, on 07/11/2008, -1/+5Then how the ***** does the internet function, tool?
- Qumahlin, on 07/11/2008, -1/+4You clearly know nothing on the topic. I suggest you read up on the "great firewall of china" and their use of mirroring routers.
- jason210, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2just because you filter everything doesn't mean you save everything.
- skyshock1, on 07/12/2008, -0/+1@jason210
Headline says "copies and *RETAINS* all Internet traffic". That's what I was speaking to.
- marillion, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4I have to wonder if it's possible too. According to traceroute, packets between my home and my office, which are 25 miles apart, only pass through routers provided by a local ISP.
- Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2*****! They got to traceroute!
- xation, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1It's not. What they probably can do is figure out what computers have had communication, not data on the actual communications. Most ISPs keep records on this and they probably just pass it on to the NSA. Telecomm immunity anyone?
- freqk, on 07/11/2008, -9/+3DIGG ME DOWN!
- mrswirl, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Google "Narus"
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006 ... - milliamp, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2It isn't possible, I would know.
- ljrdxyh, on 07/10/2008, -15/+15you intercept everything - copy - analyze - discard what looks innocent enough - pursue what doesn't. Technically very feasible.
- Rotzooi, on 07/10/2008, -1/+26Many European countries are passing legislation this year, that would make the ISPs responsible for recording and storing records of each webpage visited (not the site itself, the URLs) and each email sent. Like a voluntary NSA on your internet connection. Ridiculous.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -4/+4Really, because that has been going on in the United States for at least ten years.
- B08ama, on 07/10/2008, -3/+117Forget the internet. I'll deliver data packets myself.
- moxley, on 07/10/2008, -2/+20Yes, let's meet at 3pm in the town center, bring the packets.... I have some data packets you can take back your way and i'll take yours - I'll hand your's off to that one guy that takes 'em to the next relay dude.
But in all seriousness.....A private network would be nice, expect for the fact that if you are using any sort of infrastructure it will intercepted.
This is a scary story - and I can tell you that 99.99% of Americans have no idea what the true technological level that the NSA operates at is. FWIU if people were to be told or shown some of their capabilities they literally wouldn't believe it.- bacchante, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2FWIU if people were given the vaguest explanations of what some of their capabilities are, they figuratively would not believe it.
- Quicksilver4648, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Like the mail?
- ruddy, on 07/10/2008, -0/+16these tubes are no place for a kid.
- jhshukla, on 07/10/2008, -0/+13I will lend you my truck.
- aenima987, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1I have a better idea, form a crack team of ninjas and break into this room. Then, set explosives or something to blow it all up.
- bipolarruledout, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2You know If terrorists really wanted to ***** things up all they would have to do is take down a few network operation centers around the world. Hell even a major one such as One Wilshire in LA would have people ***** their pants. Oddly enough there doesn't seem to be much concern.
- ieatpizza, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1Sneaker net is 8 times faster than snail mail
- bipolarruledout, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Latency
- onedingo, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1even better, give 'em the bird
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
edit: oh damn, someone mentions this 2 posts lower.
- moxley, on 07/10/2008, -2/+20Yes, let's meet at 3pm in the town center, bring the packets.... I have some data packets you can take back your way and i'll take yours - I'll hand your's off to that one guy that takes 'em to the next relay dude.
- Vektuz, on 07/10/2008, -4/+45This is not possible. You can capture everything but you cannot retain everything. There just isn't enough storage capacity in technology yet. Especially considering how much p2p traffic there is which is useless to them.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -12/+6Wrong. There is very little unique traffic on the internet compared to total traffic. Its quite within the capacity of the NSA to permanently store all unique traffic. You're right, they don't care ***** to store a copy of your $#@$*&@ movie torrent, and they don't.
- crodragn, on 07/10/2008, -3/+3Right. And with encrypted files becoming the norm in P2P, how exactly are they supposed to tell, quickly and automatically, when one copy of a file is the same as another when both are using unique encryption keys? I agree that there is a great deal of repetitive garbage on the net, but a large part of the reason it's still there is no one can figure out how to sift through it. If you do come up with a way, I'm sure the RIAA would love to hear it.
- moxley, on 07/10/2008, -15/+6You are also wrong about their technology. They have technology far beyond what is available to you.
- Crimsoneer, on 07/10/2008, -3/+1Yeah. Roswell. Duh.
- xodex, on 07/10/2008, -4/+10Vektuz is correct.
- 11oops, on 07/10/2008, -4/+3xodex is incorrect.
- aenima987, on 07/10/2008, -4/+4The military has technology that is way beyond what is released commercially... I don't know though.
- Christopher83, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1But how much of that data is duplicated data? The volume of data is crazy, but if certain streams of data are just given pointers, then storing that become simpler (not simple, just simpler). I agree with Aeninma, too - just because certain technology isn't available through Bay Networks, Nortel, or your local BBY, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And I'm not disagreeing with you that it seems impossible, I'm just saying that me, with basic technical knowledge, could come up with that idea alone - so think of what the folks who are paid to think about this type of thing can do?
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -12/+6Wrong. There is very little unique traffic on the internet compared to total traffic. Its quite within the capacity of the NSA to permanently store all unique traffic. You're right, they don't care ***** to store a copy of your $#@$*&@ movie torrent, and they don't.
- ArsMoriendi, on 07/10/2008, -6/+19Time to resort to CPIP instead of TCP/IP :)
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt?number=1149- iMOSESi, on 07/10/2008, -0/+8I already use this to shop on line! Storks and Pelican have great bandwidth.
- Mentosan, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2my flock of seagulls beats your stork! :)
- texpundit, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3Oh yeah?!? Well...my joy division beats your flock of seagulls!
- seeyounorth, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Eagles do a great job... larger talons = larger packets
- Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2leads to wasted bird capacity in most applications
- iMOSESi, on 07/10/2008, -0/+8I already use this to shop on line! Storks and Pelican have great bandwidth.
- latrosicarius, on 07/10/2008, -13/+2wat
- russ3, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1you really spent time writing that? who did that help or entertain? and you couldnt even put in the h or a question mark?!?
- MnMs, on 07/10/2008, -14/+3INTERNET EDITION!!! (cool helicopter sound)
- UnFriendlyFire, on 07/10/2008, -12/+7Also the world is round.
- levelred, on 07/10/2008, -2/+11this has been going on forever. 60 minutes did a special of the inside of a NSA building in Greenland. So this is why the FISA is moot point for me.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -3/+2Going on forever? Its only been legal for a day. The internet is only about 15 years old.
- levelred, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4ok they have been wiretapping since Nixon
- source Wikipedia " In the years after President Richard Nixon resigned, there were several investigations of suspected misuse of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and NSA facilities. Senator Frank Church headed a Senate investigating committee (the Church Committee) which uncovered previously unknown activity, such as a CIA plot (ordered by President John F. Kennedy) to assassinate Fidel Castro. The investigation also uncovered the NSA's wiretaps on targeted American citizens. After the Church Committee hearings, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 became law, limiting circumstances under which domestic surveillance was allowed." - pwnerofnoobs, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2Don't forget Nixon did a little wire tapping of his own before he reisgned.
- bitbytebit, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2The internet is only about 15 years old
You said that hoping for a flame didn't you!? admit it!
- levelred, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4ok they have been wiretapping since Nixon
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -3/+2Going on forever? Its only been legal for a day. The internet is only about 15 years old.
- neozeed, on 07/10/2008, -2/+16This is how "free" and "open" societies run! Not in the open, but in the dark where people can montior ALL communications!
This is the technology the GRU & KGB had wet dreams about.
The internet caps are comming because of how much storage they need for all this *****. But then 1TB drives retail for under $300...
so *****!- 11oops, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Retail. What type of discount do you think you could get if you bought them by the semi trailer, unpackaged and direct from the factory?
- neozeed, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3Hmmmm I'd say about $10000 a pop.
What? they don't call it war profitiering for nothing!!!
- neozeed, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3Hmmmm I'd say about $10000 a pop.
- 11oops, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Retail. What type of discount do you think you could get if you bought them by the semi trailer, unpackaged and direct from the factory?
- LuxFX, on 07/10/2008, -2/+40hard drive and storage tape manufacturers rejoice!
- tdrizzle, on 07/10/2008, -22/+25:lol: at anyone who thinks that is possible.
- jave8u, on 07/11/2008, -3/+3Well you can't really know the full capabilities of a governemnt agency like the NSA...
- CAisBacK, on 07/11/2008, -2/+0That's impossible obviously the NSA only records every typed word in Digg
- insanebrain, on 07/10/2008, -12/+23wanna know what comes next ?? http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -12/+6The problem with Zeitgeist is that it perpetuates the Celestial Jesus theory which is just tripe from Gnostics who have been trying to attack Christianity for eons.
http://wordpress.com/tag/chris-white/- offput, on 07/11/2008, -3/+3The problem with zeitgeist is that it is intellectually dishonest and misleading. There's a great site out there that debunks it thoroughly, but digg seems to have been taken over by conspiracy theorists so I expect this post to get buried and ignored.
- phore, on 07/10/2008, -4/+7SOILER ALERT!! Don't watch that movie unless you want the plot twists on what is going to happen to our world governments in the next decade or so.
- skinny01, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8So it made you ***** in your pants? It must be a powerful flick.
- zomglolcats, on 07/10/2008, -6/+4Sensationalist horse crap.
- norm7, on 07/10/2008, -6/+3it's ironic that the conspiracy loons who believe this stuff think that everyone else is brainwashed.
- aga1nst, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1This one's from the same house. A total must see:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-603044303 ...
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -12/+6The problem with Zeitgeist is that it perpetuates the Celestial Jesus theory which is just tripe from Gnostics who have been trying to attack Christianity for eons.
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -14/+6Zionists nearly have communism installed in the USA.. nearly...
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -5/+2People should do searches on Amdocs who also spy on Americans an others.
- DamnMan, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Zionists dude? really? worst troll ever.
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -4/+1Communism = Zionist instigated. Do your homework.
What political system spied on its own people? Is your Nation imprisoning its people with restrictive laws? The One World Government = Communism on a bigger scale. - nighthwk1, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5You are confusing fascism with communism.
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -4/+1Communism = Zionist instigated. Do your homework.
- SimonTB, on 07/10/2008, -2/+15The scary part is that I didn't hear about this until now.
- DangerCollie, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5That is scary, this has been going on long before the secret AT&T closet came to light.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
As technology has progressed over the years the NSA has been right there to back door those communications. To be fair we're not the only country doing it. In fact, the only ones not running similar programs is pretty small.
Unless you're sending encrypted TrueCrypt containers back and forth, your communications are likely being monitored by someone. I'm more concerned about who controls your personal data, who has access to it and who can sell it than I am about the NSA. The chances of the NSA having any interest in anything you might have to say is almost zero. But companies like ChoicePoint, Experian and TransUnion are routinely spying on you and there are few restrictions on where they store the data (like off-shore outsource partners) or who they can sell it to. It's your data but you end up getting squat. - Crimsoneer, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3Echelon is old as crap, and in no way sophisticated enough to do what they were describing in this news story.
- DangerCollie, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5That is scary, this has been going on long before the secret AT&T closet came to light.
- vexingmodstwo, on 07/10/2008, -5/+30Eschelon. It's been around since the sixties, I think. And judging from the fact that all of you are still downloading and distributing illegal content and aren't in jail right now, they've gotten pretty good at only pulling the really important stuff.
- jppott, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3http://www.rense.com/general66/scgh.htm
- Otto, on 07/10/2008, -4/+17Seriously? This is old news. 2006-old.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006 ...- lpferris, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Yes, but painfully relevant.
- sodade, on 07/10/2008, -0/+17Get that - every "wacky" comment you ever posted on Digg about the upholding the constitution, impeaching (or analy raping) Bush/Cheney, legalizing cannabis, understanding the US's role in the ***** up of the Middle East, etc got you added to a list, even if you were just playing devil's advocate (p.s. dear Mr Spook: just about everything I post online is devil's advocacy). When the real police state comes in this country, they will go through that list and put you in a Halliburtion detention facility.
- brjohnson789, on 07/10/2008, -2/+2Thank god my wife is Canadian so I can get the fudge out of here
- dreamtiger, on 07/11/2008, -1/+1Isn't going to happen. They tried it out, & it flopped royally.
- buddypriefert, on 07/10/2008, -20/+3Bah, who cares. Spy on me all you like and bore yourself to death. Won't find anything threatening here so I'm not worried. Some people like to flatter themselves as a movie star as if the government (which is "us" by the way) really cares that they are cheating on their girlfriend, fingerbanging their cat, or whatever insecurity they have.
Unless you are building nukes in your basement, try spending more time on the positive things in life than worry about making yourself feel so important.- ddawggin, on 07/10/2008, -0/+9It's a waste of time to build a nuke in the basement, much easier to just buy one from Russia. Don't ask how I know tha...
Hold on, somebodies knocking on my door. - itsthebrod, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5Did you really think your comment was so important that it was worthy of being posted twice? I'm much too lazy to flame you again, so this time I'll just post a link to why you're a moron: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20071019.html
- Travelsonic, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5I say, unless they have a warrant and reasonable cause, stay the ***** out of my private life.
- buddypriefert, on 07/10/2008, -1/+0Don't flatter yourself. No one cares about your little ol private boring life. How many of the 15 million US citizens do you know have been trapped by such "spying"?
Didn't think so. - Travelsonic, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Ave you ever heard term strawman?>
That's all your post is.
My friends probably wouldn't know they were being spied on. Did that ever enter your brain, or is it too small to think the government is that honest.
- buddypriefert, on 07/10/2008, -1/+0Don't flatter yourself. No one cares about your little ol private boring life. How many of the 15 million US citizens do you know have been trapped by such "spying"?
- Rsulliv1, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1People have principles.
You cannot do whatever you want. Governments have rules to abide by.
- ddawggin, on 07/10/2008, -0/+9It's a waste of time to build a nuke in the basement, much easier to just buy one from Russia. Don't ask how I know tha...
- leerayIG88, on 07/10/2008, -0/+59All your tubes are belong to us
- jeexbit, on 07/10/2008, -3/+8So that's why the 'net has been slower lately...
- altgeeky1, on 07/10/2008, -0/+8>So that's why the 'net has been slower lately...
No, that's just Comcast.
- altgeeky1, on 07/10/2008, -0/+8>So that's why the 'net has been slower lately...
- LumberingOaf, on 07/10/2008, -2/+27This is good to know. I want it on record somewhere that I think George W. Bush is a complete nutsuck.
Excuse me, someone's knocking on my door. I'll be right back... - paulot, on 07/10/2008, -4/+1Surprise!
- Soytaco, on 07/10/2008, -3/+10Hum. Somebody should hack that.
- djisamsoe, on 07/11/2008, -1/+0huhu...how about u?hehehe...
- orangekid13, on 07/10/2008, -3/+133wow, the nsa must have A LOT of porn
- cronian, on 07/10/2008, -1/+10That would be reassuring. It would leave less time for reading my communication.
- Skooma714, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Probably child-porn. Anything goes for those sickos.
- X9001, on 07/11/2008, -0/+4you have NO IDEA
- evillawngnome, on 07/10/2008, -0/+9This is absolutely depressing. One of the documents showed the names of ALL the backbone providers (at the time).
- ibumble, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3What possible use could the NSA have for all those pop-up ads, viruses, and porn?
- zolf, on 07/10/2008, -4/+121For 10 Gbps Internet link (OC-192 or 10 Gig Ethernet) they may have to store 1.25 GBytes every second. For one day it is 108 TBytes and for one year it is 39.4 PBytes. It's a LOT of data and it is only one Internet link (in one direction)!
Now imagine that someone unauthorized made a picture of top secret document and sent it using email (1 MByte size). What are the chances that automatic searching systems is able to read text from images?
What are the chances that human analyst finds it? Remember that every second there are possibly 1250 such images sent over single Internet link!
What if the image was put in a .zip file with a password?
Summary: good luck with wasting taxpayers money- Godlike, on 07/10/2008, -4/+41The simple answer is that the headline is complete *****: They cannot possibly retain "ALL" traffic. No, they can't.
- bitbytebit, on 07/10/2008, -12/+7you are so naive .. but its ok so are most people.
Let me tell you a story:
Way back in the dark ages (1979 or so) when mainframes ruled the world and home based computers were a hobby and storage was moving away from magnetic tape to other media, the RAND group started researching holographic storage. The NSA at that time had entire facilities that were nothing more than tape storage systems covering acres of ground. They ostensibly were only intercepting international traffic but believe what you like.
By the time the home computers were using magnetic disks (im talking 5 1/4 not even 3 1/2) the NSA had GB storage capability on a single platter (long before IBM 'released' the technology (actually it may not have been IBM first)) .. when people got HD 3 1/2 the NSA had TB capability, when we all got GB capability .. well just think how long RAND had to work on holographic tech.
There is no doubt the NSA can and does intercept AND store ALL internet traffic - TritonX, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1And a simple request into that database must take what, 2-3 hours(days, week) to complete on the best system available ?
- tyree731, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5bitbytebit, where is your evidence for any of this? I have a funny feeling if any of this technology you speak of was remotely close to being available, some company would have commercialized it to make a large sum of money. Even if we go by your assumptions that the NSA is an order of magnitude ahead of everyone else, as zolf said above its 39.4 PBytes per year on a single link. Considering there are plenty more links than that, not all links are publicly accessible and, as TritonX said, the speed of said disk access would be incredibly slow even if it were an order of magnitude faster (which, for magnetic drives, it can't be) I have plenty of doubt such a system exists to store ALL internet data. Maybe show a legitimate citation or two and people won't think you're a tool.
- dagnome1984, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2Nothing a few 50 terabyte tape backups can't handle.
- Godlike, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1"believe what you like" seems to be what you're doing bitbytebit.
- bitbytebit, on 07/10/2008, -12/+7you are so naive .. but its ok so are most people.
- ScaredOfTheMan, on 07/10/2008, -5/+7You are of course assuming this is being done to protect us rather than control
Ya Ya I know, break out the tin foil hats- wishninja, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2It doesn't really matter the motive. It is morally wrong for the government to do this not to mention it is illegal.
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -6/+19Don't be stupid. The NSA is only interested in unique information. They store records of all transfers, which are all unique, and One copy of redundant information. If a million people download a move, they record one copy. Your "10 Gbps Internet Link" probably has about 10 kBps of unique data on it. Its well within limits of modern technology to permanetly store all internet Information.
- LordZeal, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2Think of the PRON!
- tyree731, on 07/10/2008, -4/+4Do you even have a source for that information or are you speculating? How would they figure out which traffic was unique and which traffic wasn't? Since a "million people" are downloading the movie this traffic presumably spreads across a large area. If the NSA is listening on all links as would be required to capture all traffic, they would have many high volume data sources operating at some distance apart with a noticeable shift or delay between two points receiving that redundant traffic. You claim it is well within modern technology limits to process all of that data, but mining humongous amounts of data in a reasonable fashion is more or less the biggest problem facing Computer Science today.
- Bluecobra, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2Assuming the traffic wasn't encrypted, I would imagine that it would take some really smart packet sniffing to determine that you are downloading a movie. On this level, Google's own MapReduce technology makes a lot of sense. Wired talked about it in their featured article in this months issue. You can read about it here:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/ ... - Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1@krnldmp
So on top of all of this they are not comparing every file to every file they already have? I know about hashes and such but even so, that doesn't make it much easier.
- ajbl, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Thank you for the sanity.
- mbraynard, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1I don't think their interest is so much WHAT is in the traffic in GENERAL but WHAT is in SOME of the traffic coming from and going to suspected locations.
- digjam, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1WHO KNOWS??? ....PRLLY THEY HAVE THE TECH THEY STOLE FROM UFO CRASH IN NEW MEXICO DESERT!
- airstrike, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1instead of 'summary', use tl;dr next time.
- Godlike, on 07/10/2008, -4/+41The simple answer is that the headline is complete *****: They cannot possibly retain "ALL" traffic. No, they can't.
- darkspym7, on 07/10/2008, -13/+103It's not possible physically to record all of the Internet's traffic.
- jakenovak, on 07/10/2008, -11/+31Conspiracy theorists don't care to look at the simple truth.
- Godlike, on 07/10/2008, -10/+16Why did it take so many comments to get one sane voice?
I hate myself for this:
It is 'physically possible'. It's also physically possible for ten thousand people to stomp a building to rubble but that won't ever happen, either.- skyshock1, on 07/10/2008, -4/+3I assure you, it's impossible. If for nothing else, simply because the electricity needed to power such a storage infrastructure does not exist on earth yet.
- tdrizzle, on 07/10/2008, -8/+3Not to mention all the data would have to be routed through them.
- neozeed, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1You mean like the data room where it is being routed through them?
You have no idea how much they have on everyone.
- neozeed, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1You mean like the data room where it is being routed through them?
- krnldmp, on 07/10/2008, -6/+8If you don't even understand what INFORMATION is, you deserve to be monitored like a gerbil in a clear plastic box.
- bushout, on 07/10/2008, -1/+9But who knows what they are recording - they could be filtering based on "no fly" style lists for all we know. The point is it's arbitrary and up to them.
- Crimsoneer, on 07/10/2008, -7/+4The point is, its impossible to analyse that amount of traffic in real time.
- TritonX, on 07/10/2008, -2/+1So they got the ip of all those people on the no fly list, and their ISP have a special invisible channel(ports, whatever) redirected to NSA just for them?
- bushout, on 07/10/2008, -1/+2TritonX. No, the phrase "'no fly' style list" that I used didn't literally mean "they have the IPs of people on the no fly list". It meant that they could have any list of IPs (for eg.). The reason I used "no fly" was to show that the government has no qualms with using weak matching techniques (names!) as a filter.
In short, you may be a twit.
Crimsoneer. It's quite unlikely that all of the world's network traffic is going through that one little room(! feels like the movie Brazil) - the fact is, they're monitoring whatever they like and that should worry you, because for one thing, the government gets things wrong and they really don't mind pissing on the little people. - TritonX, on 07/14/2008, -0/+1I'm just having a little laugh. I'm laughing because I'm not american, that's why I can afford it :P.
- irishjays, on 07/10/2008, -4/+5Dude, the Roswell crash us aluminum foil, lasers, and... a single IDE, 5,184,000rpm, 500 Zottabyte hard drive.
- dystra, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1The innernette fits entirely on one cd-rom anyways so this doesn't seem that impossible.
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c392 ...- xBeldin, on 07/11/2008, -0/+0At least one person here actually understand.
- Dougman82, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2Exactly. This is why I hate stories like this. It reminds me of some movie...was it a bourne movie?...anyway, the "government" was monitoring cell phone traffic, by having some computer monitor all cell phone conversations and pick up the ones where it recognized certain key words. As if any system could process that much data, real time or no.
People forget that when you're dealing with a country of 300 million, and a world of almost 7 billion people, it doesn't matter how awesome your supercomputers are, the sheer magnitude of data out there, be it internet traffic, phone conversations, or whatever, simply cannot all be tracked. Select few, yes. All of it, not a chance.- Lukesed, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1The one you just mentioned isn't nearly so unreasonable.
- airstrike, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1intarwebs*
- ScaredOfTheMan, on 07/10/2008, -4/+22You don't think everything you DIGG, Facebook, MySpace, all the comment you've made and all the forums you've participated in, aren't copied and stored, so in 10-20 years when the climate in this country has changed enough for ' suspected terrorists or other undesirables' to be rounded up en mass. The lists will be auto generated by internet activity history data mining.
Or worse, the coming generations politicians will have to explain pictures or comments from their myspace profile in 2006 or why they Dugg a certain article on legalizing marijuana.- ddawggin, on 07/10/2008, -4/+5Want to bury you over the first paragraph conspiracy theory but I've often wondered if my digg account, facebook, google search history, ect. would ever get brought up when I run for president.
I hope it does not or people are much more... understanding... in the future.- ScaredOfTheMan, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1I agree, the whole rounding up part may have been a bit much. But I absolutely believe most people (especially the young ones) who post 'stuff' online have no idea how this will come back to haunt them.
I believe politics will be the first place it takes hold, but it will spread to any situation where you can be judged.
- ScaredOfTheMan, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1I agree, the whole rounding up part may have been a bit much. But I absolutely believe most people (especially the young ones) who post 'stuff' online have no idea how this will come back to haunt them.
- Aleman360, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1Dude, all these social networks were probably invented by the NSA. They know what we're doing, who we're friends with, what we read, what we listen to, what we write in messages, etc.
- ddawggin, on 07/10/2008, -4/+5Want to bury you over the first paragraph conspiracy theory but I've often wondered if my digg account, facebook, google search history, ect. would ever get brought up when I run for president.
- phorden, on 07/10/2008, -2/+10If this is news to people at all that is sad. The NSA has been spying on the American people for years before the Bush administration was around. It's just has more impact now since everyone has the internet.
- richmomz, on 07/10/2008, -1/+21Big brother keeps getting bigger by the day.
- ChillyEli, on 07/10/2008, -2/+17Did my browser just resize on me?
- cJw314, on 07/10/2008, -1/+1Yeah... uh... wtf abc.com?
- Fragalishus, on 07/11/2008, -2/+2Tools > options > Content tab > javascript > advanced
You can stop that from happening, in Firefox, anyway.
- MacBookForMe, on 07/10/2008, -4/+3Our future is Mad Max style 1,2,3,4,5,6...
- ricksite, on 07/10/2008, -2/+6All telephone offices are highly fortified. Locks and keypads are common place. The only people with access to restricted areas are the technical workers and the cleaning crew.
- bipolarruledout, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2Please. That may all be true but it means nothing. Your dreaming if you think it's impossible to get into these data centers. The only saving grace is that any real damage would be noticed in the blink of an eye.
- ricksite, on 07/11/2008, -0/+2I think you missed my point.
- bipolarruledout, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2Please. That may all be true but it means nothing. Your dreaming if you think it's impossible to get into these data centers. The only saving grace is that any real damage would be noticed in the blink of an eye.
- spritom, on 07/10/2008, -4/+235*draws line in the sand*
Ok, cross this line.
*DMCA passed*
*backs up two steps, draws new line in the sand*
Ok, cross this line.
*Patriot Act*
*backs up two steps, draws new line in the sand*
Ok, cross this line!
*NSA archiving all net traffic*
*backs up two steps, draws new line in the sand*
Ok, cross THIS line!
*warrantless searches*
*backs up two steps, draws new line in the sand*
OK, CROSS THIS LINE!
*FISA expanded*
*tries to back up..but notices back is against the wall*- picciano, on 07/10/2008, -10/+5just another brick in the wall...
- yuanzhoulu, on 07/10/2008, -1/+15jump over the wall then. move to another, freer country. there are plenty.
- gadgetlust, on 07/10/2008, -4/+7Pretty much all of them are, I'd say.
- mbraynard, on 07/11/2008, -0/+6Name one that guarantees the right to religion, free speech, and has a 4th amendment that prevents evidence being found from being used against you in court? Just one.
- altrux, on 07/11/2008, -1/+0Just one? they said there are plenty.
i want 2, that have the first 4 amendments, at a minimum. - tvanwyk, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2@altrux
You think those mean anything in the US? - emmeron, on 07/11/2008, -1/+2@Yuanzhoulu -- there are no truly freer countries, there are simply countries that have different (and generally less) expectations on freedoms. Or, better said, they have a vastly different focus on freedoms than the US. Generally much narrower.
@mbraynard -- the Constitution does not guarantee anything anymore. We do not have any of those rights unchecked, and some are very disrupted. In fact, I cannot name one country that offers those rights without exceptions so broad that nearly any politician, lawyer, or law enforcement agency cannot simply walk through. And that was true 20 years ago -- much more so now. - yuanzhoulu, on 07/11/2008, -0/+5@emmeron
no. there are freer countries in every respect. on one extreme you have india (trust me, i'm from there), anything's allowed there as long as you're not physically hurting anyone. politically, you can even buy votes by feeding people and make it to office. safety-wise, everything is at your own risk and nobody will stop you, hence people ride on top and on the side of trains and buses when they are full. traffic-wise, you can do whatever the heck you please on the road, drive, walk, put an oxcart on the highway. you have total freedom speech there, no government official will give a flying *****, there is no patriot act or any such business there. you have freedom of press, nobody will stop you. you can take pictures just about anywhere.
just one example. and well, it's a bit corrupt. because yes you can bribe policemen and nobody will give a flying crap either. it's kind of, allowed, being that it's not enforced in any way.
but regardless of that extreme, i've felt freer in just about every country than the USA. only in the USA have i felt at the mercy of policemen with dark sunglasses and dangling belts of electric weapons who just want to intimidate and press charges. only in the USA have i felt scared to start a business on the side because someone would sue me for something stupid just to profit, hampering my university studies if that were to happen. only in the USA have i been told to stop taking pictures in *public* places. only in the USA have i been monitored with 56 security cameras in high school, had to wear ID badges, and need a teacher's note to go to the bathroom. only in the USA was i required to produce notes for every absence from school rather than trusted word of mouth. only in USA do i have to listen to stupid building codes that don't make sense (our university dorm can't have an inflatable 2-foot pool by law without a lifeguard). only in the USA have i been granted freedoms by law but then the same laws have permitted companies to take away those freedoms, claiming my personal time inventions as their property, requiring me to work long hours, and horribly low amounts of vacation time.
free country? you think? not my kind of freedom. by freedom i want the freedom to inhale the cultures of the world, be a free person as well as a salary-earner at the same time, a free person to pursue my interests without worries. this doesn't happen here in this country.
- Mustard911, on 07/10/2008, -9/+4This is why it's so important to have independent wifi and other networks.
- ahawks, on 07/10/2008, -2/+4Doesn't matter how you get online, if they're listening via the backbone connections, there's nothing you can do but encrypt everything.
- Christopher83, on 07/10/2008, -0/+1Encryption only gets you so far - I wont speculate on how safe encrypted data is when in the hands of the NSA, but at some point in time whatever encryption you're using will be breakable. And with independent wifi there wouldn't be a connection to the backbone, but you also don't have the benefits of the existing Internet.
- cJw314, on 07/10/2008, -2/+3Were you serious?
Oh - wait - "independent" wifi and "other" networks... hack the planet!
/sigh
- ahawks, on 07/10/2008, -2/+4Doesn't matter how you get online, if they're listening via the backbone connections, there's nothing you can do but encrypt everything.
- petebert, on 07/10/2008, -2/+30they have the entire internet? hard drive must be huge!
- spritom, on 07/10/2008, -2/+24They compress it into a ZIP file to fit on a 3.5" floppy.
- NJank, on 07/10/2008, -5/+1no, they'd have to use lossy compression.
the entire internet filtered down to 1.4MB per day. - WELLDOITLIVE, on 07/10/2008, -0/+91.44, the extra 40 kb really helps.
- FaithclubDotNet, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4Ah yes, the NSA must have the legendary fractal compression algorithm that can compress itself.
- omenmedia, on 07/11/2008, -0/+3@FaithclubDo
- NJank, on 07/10/2008, -5/+1no, they'd have to use lossy compression.
- spritom, on 07/10/2008, -2/+24They compress it into a ZIP file to fit on a 3.5" floppy.