What is Digg?168 Comments
- Dregganaut, on 11/05/2009, -11/+80Does George Tiller get one that says "Murdered by Christian Extremists"?
- ippey, on 11/03/2009, -7/+51For those who were wondering:
"Is it correct to write Muslim or Moslem? Muslim is preferred. People refer to themselves as Muslims. Many regard Moslem as a term of abuse, like people of African descent dislike being called negroes."
Ironically, I found this in "Reporting Diversity: a new, practical guide for journalists to help them report fairly on matters of faith, race, and cohesion and to do so without giving needless offence".
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/communitie ... - Lucas123, on 11/03/2009, -6/+48"The family of the deceased is no better than then men who killed him". Gonna have to disagree with you on that one, unless of course the victim's family hijacked a plan filled with innocent men, women and children and flew it into an office building filled with more innocent people.
But, I do agree that the wording spurs prejudice, no matter how accurate it is. - BrandonJM, on 11/04/2009, -11/+49As insensitive as the inscription may be to some, it's not inaccurate.
- Pretendo, on 11/05/2009, -8/+33Well if that's the case, let's throw a "Murdered by Christian Nutjobs" plaque on the Oklahoma City National Memorial.
Discretion's a word we should all familiarize ourselves with. - elijahyossie, on 11/03/2009, -3/+26While I agree the wording is unfortunate, and not helpful, I don't think it's quite up there with mass-murder.
- styromaniac, on 11/05/2009, -1/+21*"Murdered by Chrostean Extremists"
- TheEggAndI, on 11/05/2009, -4/+23alright then. and in turn, all crimes committed by neo nazis and KKK members will be blamed on "christian extremists". deal?
- dandaman0345, on 11/05/2009, -9/+25It is accurate, but it isn't necessary. Not all of the emotions felt on 9/11 need to be remembered. This injects the "Us vs. Them" mentality that never leads to anything good.
- Lucas123, on 11/03/2009, -6/+22No doubt. The family should forgive and not hate any group of people, not for that group's sake, but for own peace. At the same time, I also completely understand their hatred of Muslim extremists -- don't you? They're not my favorite people either, nor are any people who conduct or incite violence -- whether they falsely claim to be Christian or Muslim. Bottom line, though: the victim's family hasn't committed mass murder, so I still think your statement is way off the mark.
- Dregganaut, on 11/05/2009, -3/+17I don't even know who those people are, but it's obvious that this is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.
- Endeavour3d, on 11/05/2009, -7/+20As true as the statement is, by saying Muslim Terrorists, they are trying to incite hatred toward muslims, there is no other explanation. I'm not one to preach political correctness, but the way that muslims have been treated these past years because of nutcases and culturally backward idiots in their group giving everyone a bad name, saying Muslim Terrorists is just going to prolong the hate. They could say just plain terrorists and leave it at that, it's accurate and wont cause any problems.
- elliotys, on 11/05/2009, -1/+14dude, it is explained clearly two comments before yours.
- btschul, on 11/04/2009, -8/+20"the family of the deceased is no better than then men who killed him?" ***** you in the throat. Because this victim's family tells it like it is, they are as evil as the religious nuts who murdered their son and incinerated a couple thousand other people? Are you serious?
- elliotys, on 11/05/2009, -12/+24I don't really see what the big deal is. It seems accurate to me. But then again I'm agnostic.
- mdelling, on 11/05/2009, -4/+15You're confusing religious and political actions there. The Holocaust and Hiroshima weren't religiously motivated. Hiroshima was political and the Holocaust was caused by Hitler's belief in a in the evolutionary inferiority of the Jews, which is racism. 9/11 was specifically religious. If you wanted a religious example of Christians murdering there are plenty, such as the massacre of the Huguenots in France in 1562.
If you're going to criticize someone, at least be accurate. Otherwise you just make yourself look biased and uneducated. - dkitch, on 11/05/2009, -14/+24I'll only support this if the Centennial Olympic Park bombings memorial can carry the inscription "killed by a Christian Extremist" without these same people complaining. People kill in the name of _all_ religions. That doesn't mean that all (or even most) people of that particular religion are violent.
- shawn1122, on 11/05/2009, -0/+10Hindu.
Hindi is a language.
Not trying to be a douche, just letting you know. - BerateBirthers, on 11/05/2009, -1/+11"Muslim" Extremists and grammar nazis.
- DoodleMaster, on 11/05/2009, -1/+10I can't believe anyone dugg you up....
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moslem - lemur, on 11/05/2009, -7/+16Unfortunately, everyone is murdered by everyone. Blaming a whole group based on the actions of wayward individuals is never the way to go... right now millions of graves could read, "Murdered by Americans," or, "Murdered by Christians." Considering that statistically Islam is the 2nd most represented religion in the world, it's really quite easy to be murdered by a Muslim (especially if you are also a Muslim). It's easier still to be murdered by a Christian (they are more numerous, plus they have under their belt things like the Holocaust, Hiroshima, etc).
- anthropodeus, on 11/05/2009, -5/+14i disagree. "Moslem" and "Muslim" are both transliterations of the same arabic word. it's not like calling an african a "negro", because "African" means someone from africa while "negro" refers directly to the color of someone's skin, whether or not they're from africa (for example, they could be aboriginal). it's just circumstance that "Muslim" is the "preferred" transliteration. am i gonna start hearing that writing "Mao Tse-tung" instead of "Mao Zedong" is offensive now, too?
i dont think "Moslem" looks racist - i think it looks old-fashioned. like writing "marijuana" as "marihuana". - Beson669, on 11/05/2009, -2/+10Christians were the ones who bombed Hiroshima? I thought it was the Americans...
- Jaiotu, on 11/05/2009, -2/+10People even kill in the name of no religion at all. That doesn't mean that all non-religious people are violent either.
Labeling the victims of any memorial as having been killed by an "extremist" of any faith is baseless. Someone can be "extreme" in their religious worldview without being violent. Take the Quakers and the Amish. Eric Robert Rudolph was raised in the Christian Identity movement. You could place a label identifying Rudolph's victims as having been killed by a member of the Christian Identity movement. And you could label the memorial in question with "killed my Islamic Jihadists."
The terms "Christian Extremist" and "Moslem Extremist" are misleading as they serve to pave over the many theological distinctions between those who practice their religion in peace and those advance their causes at the edge of a sword. - Fallout911, on 11/05/2009, -3/+11Moslem extremists.
- swantamer, on 11/05/2009, -4/+12Pouillon, an all around *****, was killed by some one with no connection to the pro-choice movement. All the same, the world is better off without him and we should all be glad he's gone.
- chassach, on 11/05/2009, -4/+11Would it not be more accurate to write: "Murdered by Al Qaeda extremists"? And why do people like O'Reilly so desperately want it to be more vague? Because they have another agenda, of course.
This is more complex than a simple case of PC gone mad. The problem is that the description is not only (correctly) labeling the extremists as muslims but it is, by implication, labeling muslims as extremists. Many of the people doing most to fight Al Qaeda extremism in this world are muslims (lets face it some of the most critical people are probably very brave muslims working undercover to infiltrate these terrorists. That is always how these terrorist wars are one: see IRA.)
So, the description works two ways and one of the ways, while it is only implicit, is offensive and misleading. Would you be happy for a memorial to a civilian killed in Iraq to read: "Murdered by a Christian soldier"? "But they are not fighting on behalf of Christianity," I here you say, "They are fighting for America". Well, a lot of muslims would say these extremists are not fighting for Islam but for a perverted extremist creed.
So, why not: "Murdered by Al Qaeda extremists"? - jugglingjon, on 11/05/2009, -3/+10How about they meet half way and say he was killed by religious conservatives, I'm sure Fox would be just as supportive of that equally true claim.
/s - Zihuatanejo, on 11/05/2009, -0/+6That's like making a memorial for Sean Taylor that says "Murdered by black people."
- inactive, on 11/05/2009, -2/+8The truth is a group of Muslim extremists crashed planes into the World Trade Centers and killed thousands of Americans. That doesn't give me quite a blissful feeling.
Get out of your little tinfoil hat cult and stop denigrating the dead. - btschul, on 11/05/2009, -1/+7Yeah, we shouldn't generalize. It's not like ALL muslim extremists are extremists. Oh, wait...
- Beson669, on 11/05/2009, -12/+18I'm guessing most comments in this thread will either be one of two replies:
1) Some kind of reference to how Bush/Cheney were involved in the killings of 9/11 or
2) Downplaying the extremist side of things by spouting such nonsense as "but but but the CHRISTIANS have killed people in history! and the JEWS! So this means all religion is bad and therefore let's downplay this one particular incident by minimizing it in the greater scheme of things"
Regardless of your personal feelings, it was in fact Muslim extremists who committed the acts of 9/11. There's no need in trying to deflect that fact by pointing out that Christians killed people in the Inquisition, or an atheist killed millions of Russians in the 20th century; none of it has a thing to do with this story. - anthropodeus, on 11/05/2009, -5/+11people who are obsessed with political correctness.
notice that there is not a single complaint by any muslim noted in the article. the complaint comes from a "Ruth Epstein". and yes, i know she could POSSIBLY be a muslim convert, but it's unlikely. they get arabic names when they convert, anyway. - Laminarcissus, on 11/05/2009, -4/+10Your forensic etymology does not change how people feel about the word. The fact is that they don't like to be called that, so if you want to be respectful you simply don't call them that.
If you don't care about being respectful, then you certainly have a wide range of things to call them, but that's on you, not them, and you shouldn't be surprised by the result.
As a quick test of the impotence of etymology, try calling an African-American "niggardly." I suspect that you will be shouting that the root words are completely different over your shoulder as you run for your life.
By definition, what's offensive is defined by what offends people. You're just not in a position to lecture them as to what they should prefer to be called. - sousademiami, on 11/03/2009, -17/+23Using hatred to encourage more hatred, or just acting on that hatred, it really doesn't matter, hate begets more hate.
- rebrad, on 11/05/2009, -1/+6What is hateful about the truth? Their son was killed by Moslem extremists. Denying that they were extremist is an act of appeasement which is nothing more than submitting to the will of the extremist. I prefer the truth as opposed to surrender.
- BasalCellBossk, on 11/05/2009, -1/+6What's the first thing that Moses did after coming down off the mountain with the commandments?
He killed a third of the people at the bottom.
He must have forgotten. - ohplease, on 11/05/2009, -2/+7"First Selectman Ruth Epstein told the the Torrington Register Citizen that the inscription would be racially insensitive "
Muslim is not a race, it's a religion, and Ruth Epstein should shut the ***** up. - inactive, on 11/05/2009, -6/+11i guess americans wouldn't object if iraqis and afghanis put "tortured, raped , and murdered by US troops" on their children's graves.
- Gudeldar, on 11/05/2009, -1/+6How many people in Africa die of AIDS because the Catholic church thinks condoms are a sin?
Or if you want to go further back how many people died in the Crusades or were burned at the stake during the Inquisition? - chassach, on 11/05/2009, -0/+4Please refer to the long list of quotations from the Old and New Testaments justifying and urging genocide and killing in the "Chaschas" thread above . You are either defining "Christians" to be a small group who agree with your pacifist conception of the Bible (in which case you should allow the many Muslims who take similar principles from their own religion the same space) or you are just wrong. Your comment "There are no Christians out murdering today" is either trivially true (in that no true Christian or Muslim would commit what is called murder in their books) or just plain, head bangingly wrong.
- ohplease, on 11/05/2009, -3/+7Read the Quran. It is the duty of every Muslim to kill an apostate.
- Jaiotu, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5If he pays for the memorial, that's one thing. Apparently, the memorial is being funded by the municipality, which places the content of the message outside of the desires of a single, grieving parent.
- Jaiotu, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5Just "Murdered by Al Qaeda" would be fine. No need for "extremist." Are there "non extreme" members of Al Qaeda? I would consider the Amish to be Christian Extremists; they take their religion to extremes, but that does not make them dangerous. I really don't like how the word "extremist" gets interchanged with "militant."
- Suricou, on 11/05/2009, -0/+4They are both wrong.
Arabic words do not map cleanly to the latin alphabet. Muslim and moslim are just close-enough approximations. - stevebee, on 11/05/2009, -0/+4Islam is not a race.
- canadabluesfan, on 11/05/2009, -4/+8While this may not be incorrect, it is completely unnecessary on a memorial. Like others have said, why doesnt it say "murdered by christian extremists" on the Ok. city memorial?
- Jaiotu, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5Why isn't the IRA ever referred to as "Catholic Terrorists?" Just curious.
- Congzilla, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5I don't see any other religious group setting off car bombs everyday.
- rebrad, on 11/05/2009, -1/+5I have to agree. GTFO. @sheasie, how old are you, 13? Get over it. Those days are gone and there are better things to occupy your time than old *****. Get out of the basement and go outside and meet some people and have some fun. Obsessing on paranoid delusions is not a good thing and won't get you any (something something).
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