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See the original image at spiegel.de —

'Moscow Has Maneuvered Itself into a Dead End'

spiegel.de — Russian President dismayed Western leaders on Tuesday when he recognized the independence of the two Georgian provinces Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Many German commentators argue that Moscow may look strong now, but in reality it is cutting off its nose to spite its face.

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  • xdxdVSxdxd, on 08/27/2008, -10/+7seems quite ironic.. we're all at a worldwide dead-end (political, economic, ecological, social, energetic) .. oh, well..
    • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3More like total BS than irony.

    • rockstar1o9, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2international dead-end = war? i certainly hope not, but maybe war is a necessary part of life? history would definitely say so. i'm not saying war is good, but maybe it's like the way forest fires set off by lighting aren't 'good' but they're part of nature's natural process to clear the dense old growth, and make room for new trees,
    • trackerbishop, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1who cares, the world is going to end in 2012 anyway. you see,

      God is an alien (he isnt of this world), and they have a big space ship that has tractor beam capabailities. this is how jesus could walk on water and how he ascended back to heaven. also, remember in star trek they could revive people after death if it had been a few minutes?

      you see, our compounds, i.e. uracil, which scientists now think came from outer space on an asteroid and what sparked the evolution of life, show that our science is based on the science of the universe, so it is logical that other life forms that are more advanced.

      maybe other more advanced life forms found this planet or created it somehow, then sent off the basic necessities to start the ball rolling with evolution, then hung around in their ship once we reached our current state, but we were ***** so they took off and took Jesus with them.
    • tomarocco, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1The Suicide Solution
  • fr0mundacheese, on 08/28/2008, -11/+3South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the new definition of "wishy-washy". First they hate Russia then they hate Georgia.
  • CRCulver, on 08/28/2008, -14/+13Perhaps the derision of the West can be powerful here. If you are a grim authoritarian like Putin, it must hurt when the international community just laughs at you after you make what you considered a bold strategic move.
    • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -5/+7Putin is the one laughing while the international community proves all it can effectively do is whine, not threaten Russia.

      He showed that Russia is now a force like the US, which can again do what it pleases, but now without a JFK like figure to stand up and threaten back.

      As you can see Bush immediately backed away from any real commitment to Georgia, as he should have, but certainly not with the old cold war tone of our thriving economy vs the inevitable doom of the USSR's economy.

      Russia is growing faster than they have since perhaps Peter the Great, so they are not concerned too much with the international community of the US and Europe who economies aren't doing half as well. They are focused on their own internal growth primarily.

      Their invasion of Georgia seems to be fast and clean to me and clearly the Georgia President was insane to shell a bunch of civilians.

      Even if they weren't Russian citizens, it would still be crimes against humanity and Russia, like the US could march in on that claim alone.

      I think in the US you've been tricked to see this as a grand failure like Israel's attacks on Lebanon, which are regarded as a failure and definitely didn't get the attention it should.

      In reality Russia showed it can pull off clean and quick regulatory military action and effectively eliminated the threat in no time at all while in the background the US fights a losing war for 5 years that was entirely unprovoked.

      Russia fought a war for like 5 days and was provoked. I don't see how this makes Russia look bad.

      If anything, it humiliates the US and shows our gross incompetence and that world leaders have absolutely no respect for Bush and no real fear of the US military which is now weakened, underfunded, war weary and well, in this war, a complete embarrassment. From MISSION ACCOMPLISHED to torturing prisoners, to the utter failure that is Baghdad: The City of Walls.

      Is Russia destroying Georgia, dismissing their police forces, blowing up their utilities and torturing their war prisoners ?

      If not, then by relative example, they are kicking ass.

      • CRCulver, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2"Russia is growing faster than they have since perhaps Peter the Great."

        Not demographically they aren't. Russia's birthrate is among the lowest in the world, and birthrate is closely linked to economic growth. Putin seems to be aware of the problem somewhat, but he hasn't done anything to really fix it. European birthrates are low, but they are handling the problem much better than Russia.

        "Russia fought a war for like 5 days and was provoked. I don't see how this makes Russia look bad."

        Russia is still holding onto stuff. It wasn't limited to just 5 days. And they went after targets like Pori which were not even related to the two separatist provinces. Occupations always tend to make countries look bad, just look at the US's problem.
      • KnightWhoSaysNi, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5I agree with many of your points, but not this one:

        "...while in the background the US fights a losing war for 5 years..."

        We are no longer at war with Iraq (that one lasted all of 3 weeks.) We are trying (and failing) to stabilize Iraq, which is in the middle of a civil war, and that's a very different proposition. The US military is a lot more capable of fighting a war than the Russian army is.

      • Midtowner, on 08/28/2008, -3/+1"Trying and failing to stabilize Iraq."

        -- you haven't been reading the news, have you? Wishful thinking on your part I guess.
  • asinausk, on 08/28/2008, -14/+0pwnt.
    • VandyB, on 08/28/2008, -3/+7Thankyou all for your valuable comments. So glad you could grace us with mature, well thought out posts.

      The Digg Community.
  • record200, on 08/28/2008, -12/+12Good for South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
    • newzooreview, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2You need to learn some history. Georgians were trading gold with the Greeks. Georgia was on the map long before the mud-dwelling tribes on the Volga were civilized by Viking traders and given political structure by Genghis Khan. The so-called territories of "south ossetia" and "abkhazia" are very recent inventions in history, inventions of a blood-thirsty and racist people called Russians. And the most incredible irony is that despite these aggressive newcomers, the Georgians simply wanted to live in harmony. But the Russians have ethnically cleansed the territory and were trying to kill off the final Georgian inhabitants and bomb them out of their homes before Georgia was forced to act.
      • record200, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3@newzooreview
        you're delirious.
        If it had not been for the Russians, the Georgians as a nation would have been wiped off from the face of the Earth. At the end of 18th century the Georgian czar turned to Russian empress Elizabeth the 2d with a request to save them all form the ruthless Iranians and Turks who attacked Georgia at that time.If it were not for US (Neocon) puppet Saakashvili, Georgia and Russia would still be friends.
      • record200, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0s/Elizabeth the 2d/Catherine the Second/


      • giddyup69, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@record200
        thanks for sharing that tidbit of information that u simply pulled off of wikipedia. i'm ukrainian and know all the bs associated with russia's history in forcefully taking control of neighbouring countries. ukraine today has stalin to thank for the russian's transplanted in the far east of OUR country. it is so bad a child can't even speak ukrainian without being ridiculed and beat up. the majority of the schools there don't even teach ukrainian as the primary language. maybe they should also ask russia to come in and take a chunk of land as well in the name of protecting its citizens.

        in the future... please don't lecture other's with your keen insight that has been developed and derived from internet facts and blogs. thank you.
    • record200, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@giddyup69

      1. Don't tell me what should do. Thank you.
      2. Stalin was Georgian btw and his government was quit international.
      3. The point is that the Georgians have KILLED civilians, non-combatants, shelled the city with GRAD missiles. The houses are destroyed. The city hospital is destroyed. Which word you don't understand? And the US army has prepared them for that.
      I am angry as hell. If you Ukrainian you should know the facts from both sides unless you are too biased to jump to conclusions without finding any.
  • Vigacmoe, on 08/28/2008, -16/+5germany has been a small player for a long time, who cares about what they say?
    • gasoline, on 08/28/2008, -3/+15Germany is the leading force of the EU.
      • SpoBo, on 08/28/2008, -10/+2Germany ISN'T the leading force in the EU. The EU has no single leading force so what you are saying is completely wrong.
      • CorneliusStump, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9Germany has massive and disproportionate influence in the EU. he isn't "completely wrong" at all.
      • Timbo1970, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Give the guy a break. The last book he read listed the Prussians as a major power in Europe and there was a coming war with the Ottoman Empire.
    • CorneliusStump, on 08/28/2008, -1/+10and it has the third (or 4th according to some sources) largest economy in the world. It has quite a say in international affairs
    • cyberdork, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2And Germany has the 6th largest defense budget in the world, about the same as Russia.
    • Pitofdoom, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Germany has always been the economic engine of Europe !
  • Iztikeit, on 08/28/2008, -14/+8Russia obviously does not need ties with the west.
    • robinthehood, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3I don't know why this is being dugg down? Russia doesn't simply put. Look at the factbook if you need proof:

      https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...

      Pretty balanced trading all around.

      I think people just get their panties in a bunch because Russia sees no problem with Iran developing Nuclear energy.
      • Iztikeit, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1The west is, and has been for the longest time, afraid of anything Russia.

        This Russia is now held back by any ideologies. Russia wants to be the mediator of Asia, at the very least and does not think America can do much about it.

        America is making enemies and losing friendships with almost everyone in Asia.
  • sklter84, on 08/28/2008, -16/+21Russia intervened in a genocide which is good in my book. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing was just to gain public support from it's citizens.
    • gasoline, on 08/28/2008, -3/+15The owners of Russia don't need to do anything to gain public support. They, in fact, can construct an event through media, which is almost completely owned by the state. Much cheaper. The lie of 2000 dead at Tshinkvali ("the genocide") was one of the constructed events. From the first hours the Russian media reported of 2000 dead and showed some random bodies.

      Then, in the steps of Goebbels - repeat! And repeat! And repeat! Until everyone has heard the figure "2000".
      • SpoBo, on 08/28/2008, -11/+5lol :') Wouldn't America be able to construct an event through the media? They can even transform events that happen in different countries. I say Russia is doing what's good. Declaring South Ossetia independent isn't bad. The EU should recognize it in my opinion. They intervened ethnic cleansing ... I mean come on ... the US has never had such a good excuse to participate in a war since WW2.

        And combine that with the fact that Georgia's army has been funded and trained by the US ... well ... you should think twice about pointing fingers to Russia. They are the victim. And now Bush has his rocket shield that costs the American tax payers a ***** of money and causes another set of stupid and unnecessary risks.
      • fucknuggets, on 08/28/2008, -2/+6no Georgia is really the victim. Georgia had been trying to gain admission into NATO for some time. This is bad for Russia because it makes a great build up place for NATO forces. So basically Russia gets some South Ossetians to stir up some *****, passes out citizenship to any one that wants it, and goes in for the safety of there citizens. Thus blocking any chance that Georgia may have had at getting into NATO. There also using the opportunity to wave there dick around and show that they are still somewhat important
    • robinthehood, on 08/28/2008, -7/+1Agreed on the fact that Russia intervened on a coming Genocide. However, they continue to push their hegemony on Chechnya (the Cuba of Russia, or the Tibet of Russia depending on where you're from)
    • newzooreview, on 08/28/2008, -2/+8Russia is a Nazi state. It's citizens, stung by their lost sense of global importance, are slavering to follow a dictator who feeds them messages and images of their greatness. The attack on Georgia would be laughable if it weren't for the terrible effect on the lives of people in a country that has embraced democracy, freedom, and an open society. Unlike the vast majority of you, I have traveled frequently to Georgia (although I am not Georgian), and I know that the true crime here is by Russia against it's former colony that won't continue to submit to its bullying.
    • JoeVet, on 08/28/2008, -1/+8Why is there no evidence of genocide except the reports from PRAVDA and Ossetian separatists? There is no independent evidence. Where are the pictures of mass graves or bodies? Blindly accepting Russian propaganda shows an ignorance of Russian history.
    • nwshc, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3There was no ***** genocide you *****. You DIGGtards need to stop drumming up false evidence to praise Russia and hate the West.
    • cyberdork, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3The genocide claims (of both sides) were already debunked a few days after the fighting began. Human Rights Watch already evaluated the civilian casualty numbers and couldn't find ANY sign of a genocide.
    • anillop, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2What genocide? For some reason the only people with any so called proof of this genocide is the Russian government who is coincidently looking for some sort of justification to invade Georgia so it can be re-annexed.
  • over9k, on 08/28/2008, -12/+3Russia just liberated Abkhazia and South Ossetia, just like USA did to Iraq. Nothing to claim moral high ground on.
  • CorneliusStump, on 08/28/2008, -10/+38russia is doing exactly what the US did in Serbia and now the US is pissed about it. except the difference in this case is that the US can pressure the west into seeing it's side of things, whereas Russia will inevitably be made to look like the bad guy
    • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -2/+12Times have changed. The US can no longer effectively pressure Russia. They are UN members, they have plenty of oil and the world needs it, they have China to provide any goods the US might try to sanction against us.

      All we could try to do is stop high tech exports to Russia, but that will really just hurt us in a time when we need more exports. Plus it would spur Russian innovation to replace the products we try to sanction.

      The US is not the nation it was in the 60s or more so, the rest of the world grew up. The world doesn't need the US as it once did, we are not the leading oil producing nation as we were in the 60s. We are just one of the many industrialized consumers and our markets are not strong enough to isolate Russian markets any longer.

      Our feeding China's economy has not particularly helped the situation, especially when you consider Russian and Chinese military have been doing joint military practices.

      It shows our strategies have done little more than push our questionable allies into a coalition of their own, which excludes US oppression and interference.

      When we say things like.. YOU ARE THE AXIS OF EVIL. No matter what our intentions or justifiable causes, we create a need in that opposing country for more militaristic type of rule.

      That's EXACTLY what happened to Iran. We labeled them, and they reacted by voting in their version of right wing war party leaders. That's the natural human response to a threat.

      You don't whimper away with you tail between your legs and beg the US's forgiveness. No, you get angry, you unite your people, you devise anti-occupation strategies to make invasion of your nation too overwhelmingly expense.

      Like 911, threatening another nation only unites them against a common enemy.... US.

      Terrorists now face what was mostly a US effort, to a world effort to monitor and eliminate them. No matter how successful their attack, the pressure they face in response from the world is much greater. The only difference is they have much less wealth and infrastructure to lose and that makes them that much more effective in fighting the long hard war of resisting an occupation.





    • jasgeo, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2"Do as I say, not as I do."
    • anillop, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4I can wait to see how the citizens of Chechnya react to the ability to just declare your self a state. This should be fun to watch.
      • FuZi0nDET, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Russia has committed no war crimes in Chechnya....
        Comrade Putin is a saint!
      • writie, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1Not forgetting North Ossetia.
  • borez, on 08/28/2008, -11/+1An article from Der Spiegel ... are you ***** serious?

    First the Daily Mail ( UK ) and now this.

    Oh dear Digg, oh dear indeed.

  • stealthc, on 08/28/2008, -9/+4Self-government is a natural human right. What's wrong with the Ossetian people wanting independence from Georgia? It would be nice if Russia wasn't the only one recognizing their independence.
    • Togusa09, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1You forgot to mention the US governments condemnation of the 'invasion' of a sovereign nation. Seems you can't class something as liberation until you've kill a few thousand of their civilians...
  • stranglethorne, on 08/28/2008, -5/+2"but in reality it is cutting off its nose to spite its face."

    ah k... I was wondering what is was really doing
  • stevenhatfield, on 08/28/2008, -4/+21You watch, these 2 "independent" countries will be part of Russia in 6 months...
    • iticu, on 08/28/2008, -8/+4I'm sure you've done all the required research and thought to come up with such a balanced opinion.
    • Barackalypse, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Then the suicide bombings start and you Diggers get to decide if you call these people terrorists or rebels.
      • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2I don't see why we call suicide bombers terrorists.

        It's not HOW you attack that makes you a terrorist, it's WHAT you attack.

        Sadly most American's cannot make that distinction.

        Personally I could care less how the land dispute turns out. If Russia wants to take on the cost of trying to hold onto disputed land for some measly pipeline they will likely come to the same conclusion similar US tactics have.

        AKA, it will cost them more money to hold a land they doesn't want to be held that the land will be worth to hold. Just as we have sabotaged our own economy with a useless occupation.

        However, lets face it, Russian leaders are much smarter than today's US leaders.

        The MIR space station for instance, cost to produce and decades in ordbit... Total Cost less than 3% of the International Space Station.

        America is a nation of almost unimaginable wastefulness.

    • jrtyrrell, on 08/28/2008, -2/+4Abkhazia are quite adamant that that *isn't* on the cards,

      http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29597

      although Ossetia have been wanting to join Russia since 1990ish? So yeah they are definitely going to be part of Russia.
    • tomarocco, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2You watch, WWIII will start in 6 months...
    • snake7, on 08/29/2008, -0/+0Good for them!
  • darthjure, on 08/28/2008, -4/+19I don't understand. Why doesn't the USA want to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia? Why is it so bad that Russia does?

    If Georgia "launched an attack on South Ossetia on Aug. 7" why doesn't the USA denounce this? I just don't get it.
    • Togusa09, on 08/28/2008, -4/+7Because the US can't say anything nice about Russia... I can only hope that Obama can do better if he gets in... It's been political agenda after agenda for the past 8 years without any thought to the actual people involved.

      I've given up hope of there being any change under Mc Cain. There's been a few good points he made years ago, but they seem to all have realigned to the current Republican agenda... Why does politics have to attract all the bastards...
    • fucknuggets, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2that area is very useful as a build up point for NATO forces in case SHTF. That's the main reason why Russia started all this and bated Georgia buy helping South Ossetia.
    • buckrogers1965, on 08/28/2008, -3/+8Because Georgia troops were trained and equiped by American soldiers. There were American "Observers" that were accompanying the Georgian troops when they attacked and got their asses handed to them.

      I say, good for Russia. Don't let the ***** dictate to you what you can do on your own borders. We certainly wouldn't let another country put military trainers into Mexico and equip them with modern military equipment, why do we expect other countries to allow us to screw them over in a similar way?
      • regeya, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3"I say, good for Russia. Don't let the ***** dictate to you what you can do on your own borders."

        Except that Georgia, including the regions in question, had broken away.

        Why is it okay for Russia to Empire-build, but not okay for anyone else?
    • CRCulver, on 08/28/2008, -2/+9"I don't understand. Why doesn't the USA want to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia?"

      South Ossetia has a population of merely 60,000 and no economy to sustain an independent state. It would seek to join Russia almost immediately. So, what you'd have in the end is land taken from Georgia and given to Russia. No wonder people don't want to approve of that.
      • jrtyrrell, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1But even if that's obviously going to happen, you can't say that people should approve of Georgia going in with armed forces to bring the Ossetians to heel. It would be like England marching into Cornwall with tanks because we worried they were voting to become independent.... 3 times.
      • feeldarhythme, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Even if the vast majority of Ossetians want it?
      • vckeating, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Not that I agree with Russia on this one, but it should be mentioned that Kosovo is in exactly the same position - a state whose economy is based on organised crime and smuggling, only now propped up by the EU. The difference of course is that Russia is likely to absorb these breakaway provinces, but you can't defend this (at least from the perspective of Western conduct) in terms of the economic sustainability of the breakaway provinces.
    • Infinitedigga, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3US gov has a plan to isolate russian territory and surround it with its new allys Ukrain, georgia,polsha, belarus, etc.
      And the most important thing is NOBODY CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIVES that are being killed. Yes they will send humanitarian aid to look good.
      • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3The US is controlled by old people who grew up in the cold war.

        What more do you need to know to understand there are tons of psychological reasons for us to find any military invasion by them threatening, especially right as we surround them with missiles.

        There is also that pesky pipeline, but in all reality Russia doesn't need it, so personally I think it's a perfectly valid move.

        The Russia economy is growing fast.. why would you prefer Georgia ? It's a weak useless nation with no future other than being puppet for the west.

        What national pride could you possible have.

        Russia is the motherland, with a space program, a huge military and more of the worlds resources than any other nation. What's Georgia got ? US support ?.... pfft.. not really.

        But.. Hey .. thanks for those 2k troops uselessly fighting a dead end war in Iraq.

    • writie, on 09/02/2008, -0/+1It's not just the US. No-one apart from Russia and Hamas have recognised South Ossetia as an independent state.
  • Requeim, on 08/28/2008, -12/+1http://www.healthpoints.info
  • fucknuggets, on 08/28/2008, -5/+9russia is just waving its dick and trying to see how much it can get away with
    • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Russia is just doing what it wants, knowing the US and Europe are helpless to stop them.

      Not for any evil reason, but just because they don't have to ask our permission for every action they take. They are a strong nation again and actions like this help the international world and their people see it.

      You don't ***** shell Russian civilians. The US wouldn't have done any less if Mexico started launching missiles at Texas.

  • Timbo1970, on 08/28/2008, -3/+9The concern isn't with Russia stopping the Georgian firing on S. Ossetia. What is worrying is that Russia stopped Georgia and then kept on going, taking control of the port of Poti well outside of either breakaway territory and setting up road blocks. And then continuing to destroy Georgian security infrastructure after signing the peace deal. And it's still in Georgia, a long way from the breakaway regions.

    It seriously puts all their claims into question.
    • polumrak, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4What were we supposed to do?
      When you fight with someone, you don't stop to hand them a gun they dropped. You make them stop hitting you — e.g. shooting at your soldiers — as fast as possible. That's how war ends.
      • regeya, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Yeah...blood for oil! BLOOD FOR OIL!!!!!!!!

        They couldn't hold back, couldn't wait for proof, because to wait would have meant a mushroom cloud over Moscow!
    • jrtyrrell, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1As far as I can tell they are creating a buffer zone because Saakashvili stated quite clearly he was going to do anything to get those territories back. So we can assume he's going to be moving to try and take them via military force It just makes sense to leave a large force there to stop that happening, that's how war works.

      When you consider the military budget of Georgia increased 50 times over the period from 2002 (US$18 mln.) to 2008 (US$900 mln.), reaching almost 9% of Georgia's GDP. You can see they are arming up with all that US money and artillery for something.

      According to The Georgian Times (http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?m=home&newsid=121 ... they have not intention of staying there they are waiting for "reliable international control” to be established to prevent possible Georgian attacks on Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
    • Sabarok, on 08/28/2008, -1/+0When Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, the retaliation eventually led to 2 atomic bombs being dropped on cities. American allies also helped out in the fight against Japan. Georgia invaded South Ossetia, their ally in Russia came in to help them out and push back. That's what happens in war. Look at what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, you can't just hit a port and then leave, war doesn't work that way. I don't think the Georgians would have left South Ossetia after a few hours
    • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Russia doesn't need to make a claim. They are their own nation.

      That's like saying the US will get in trouble for it's claim of WMD in Iraq.

      No, they won't because NO ONE in the world can bring them to justice.

      I don't see their invasion as being too ... invasive. They were in and out pretty fast and Georgia doesn't look like Iraq.

      They could have been less invasive.. .IF they wanted, but when you shell a nation 10 times your size, don't expect them to not storm your nation.

      Russia had every right to push into Georgia as far as they pleased because Georgia effectively declared War on them with an unprovoked attack. At that point storming their capital, seizing their leaders and documents or even eliminating their entire military is well within reason and international law.

      When you attack another nation, you potentially give up your own nations sovereignty. That's is the price of war.

      Georgia is lucky Russia is even leaving so quickly, they could stay there for years if they wanted. Nobody is going to fight Russia for Georgia. If it was the US, we'd probably have gone further, killed more people and we'd certainly be staying there.

      So, get off your high horse about Russia and start worrying about your own nation. One of American's major problems is thinking they need to control the world and then thinking they actually can.

      Sometimes I overwhelmed with my nations stupidity.



      • jrtyrrell, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0While I agree with most of what you say I will nitpick, technically they [Georgia] didn't invade Russian territory, they did however kill Russian peacekeepers in the region. So I'm still behind the retaliation as are you.
  • Amnesia10, on 08/28/2008, -6/+12Well under the Russian constitution they can invade anywhere where there are Russians in trouble. Where next Switzerland London or Stockholm? Maybe we should recognise the independence of Checnya?

    http://digg.com/politics/Russia_s_Immoral_War_agai ...
    • record200, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Don't kill Russian citizens, and they won't come
    • TheMachine1, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3That was the same pretext that Hitler used to annex many nations before WWII.
    • feeldarhythme, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Ramzan Kadyrov criticized John Mccain for his opinion about independence for Chechnya.
      Chechens voted for staying with Russia in 2003, and they don't want to leave. At least now.
    • dihlofos, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya#Caucasian_Wa ...

      first, read about
      First Chechen War
      Inter-war period
      Second Chechen War
  • TheImaginator, on 08/28/2008, -3/+20Moscow has maneuvered itself into a dead end?
    Hmmm.
    Where does Europe get it's oil and gas from again?
    • AlmostEvil, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4The north sea? The middle east?
    • polumrak, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3We laid some pipes after us, so — from the dead end.
    • jasgeo, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3and where might they be without European customers for that oil?
      • LucifersDad, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1They send it to China and India a market 3 times the size of Europe.
  • jeremyduffy, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9Offer aid to the parties that need it and stay the F out. Just like we should have done in Vietnam and many other conflicts throughout the world. We are not the world police either.
  • BotchaMcCoola, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4Germans have not thought clearly about Russia since at least Napoleanic days. I don't blame them but when that topic comes up they should stay quiet.
    • polumrak, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Napoleon was French.
      They too didn't think over their invasion in 1812.
    • thoughtcrime, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5I don't agree that Germany did not think much about Russia since the Napoleonic Era.

      The Germans were pretty concerned about Russia during the Cold War. After all, the Soviets did divide their country in two and place a large wall between the two halves. They also had thousands of troops, tanks, and missiles poised to strike, and blockaded Berlin for a time, creating an international crisis. Germany was concerned enough about it to rebuild their own military, and to allow for the placement of U.S. and other foreign troops on their soil via NATO.
  • joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -8/+5Russia is growing at twice the economic pace as America and they easily have the world largest supply of natural resources including metals, gems, timber, and a lot of oil.

    While the US has squandered our supplies as a younger nation, Russia's years of poverty have effectively made them save most of their resources.

    So, while they may have suffered throughout the the last 80 years or so, they have also not been a nation of consumption like the US, which managed to reach peak oil back in 1970.


    Russia is in great shape. It's the US that needs to worry because we are a nation based on global consumption in a world coming upon the blunt realization that resource truly are limited.





    • polumrak, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3We're not.
      We're closer to "acceptable shape".
      But, for example, Finns develop Karelian timber, because it's cheaper — instead of cleaning up and re-planting the land they just bribe local authorities and leave the remains to rot. That means pines won't grow there for several hundred years.

      Corruption, corruption, corruption. Putin said so himself — that was the main obstacle during his presidency.
    • amightywind, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Great shape? Russia's population is still falling by 800,000 people per year. The average life expectancy of a Russian male is 61 years. With a population of 1/2 the US Russia has a GDP of $1.3 trillion. They trail Brazil. The US defense budget is nearly as large.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russi ...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ...
      Russian oil output has peaked, even has they drive out western investors like BP.
      http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0528/p01s04-wosc.htm ...
      It will be fun to watch the crash in Russia again.
    • BECoole, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1You must think Africa is in great shape too.
    • tomarocco, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Russia can kick our ass all over the globe. We'd better quit mouthing off.
      • Pitofdoom, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Russians don't play like little squealing liberals when it comes to war, they know exactly what it is !
  • sdrozdet, on 08/28/2008, -3/+8I'm really surprised by this article. If anything, what this incident has demonstrated is the total lack of substance in the American foreign policy of late. We've spread ourselves too thin, and now don't have the strength to get take a stand (even if this stand would have to be outside of our sphere of influence and supporting a party - Georgia - that's clearly in the wrong here).

    Still, despite that, America is trying to flex its military muscle by installing a missile defense shield in Poland. Of course Russia is going to take it "the wrong way" - just as the US wasn't thrilled when Russian missiles popped up in Cuba. America should take a second to evaluate its priorities, especially the ridiculous "we'll fight for democracy anywhere there's oil" doctrine.
  • Infinitedigga, on 08/28/2008, -7/+7Ok author of this article wanted what by quoting all those newspapers?!
    Its another attempt to discredit russian action in georgia?
    This collection of articles dont cost a penny. Most of them are not objective and has a big prejudice sign hanging on their backs.
    All those people sit in their comfortable offices and talk , write, give their opinions. i wish they all were in South ossetia when georgians begin bombing it.
    • sprash, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5This article quotes all well read and most trusted newspapers in Germany. If you read it you really get all sides of opinions represented by the German press with the highest considered credibility.
      If you think they have "a big prejudice sign hanging on their backs" it is your opinion. And you may or may not be right. But the article had at least its value to show you this.
  • JPHR, on 08/28/2008, -7/+12Russia will simply wait till Bush clears the White House.

    The old Nato members France and Germany will do the same as Russia. Merkel is probably quite fed up with Bush.
    Only Britain tends to follow Bush still blindly.

    The next president will hopefully heed the advice from conservative (Not NEOCON) Pat Buchanan: http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/08/pjb-blowback-from ...

    As soon as the truth sinks in the Georgian electorate will return their idiot president to the USA where he might enjoy an endowment chair at the American Enterprise Institute:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSLR1 ...

    All those projections of USSR type expansive (communist) ideology are a figment of NEOCON imagination and fear mongering for the election. Bush rather sours international relations by trying to invoke a cold war (which Russia certainly is not looking for) than letting McCain loose the election.

    Do not forget that Bush/Cheney are quite desperate for a next republican government to ensure that there will not be a thorough investigation and criminal proceedings of their meddling/lying/fabrication of evidence in relation to Iraq/"loosing" all White House e-mail in the period leading up to Iraq/the list goes on...,/Plame outing/Cheney not complying with classified document procedures (is trying to cover his tracks)

    Check Wikipedia on Osettia and Georgia and make up your own mind on the in my view highly questionable claims of Georgia on Ossetia.

    Russia simply defends it's interests and probably even did the right thing.
    • DracoFlameus, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1As a European I can assure you that when it comes to Russia, Europe is glad to have the US on their side, nevermind who the president is. The fear of having russian tanks coming from the east again is greater than the anger about US foreign affairs.

      "Russia simply defends it's interests and probably even did the right thing."

      I like that "probably" in the sentence. C'mon you were so pro-russian and then you write "probably"? You have to be consequent. You must say, Russia defends its interests and will invade any country which acts against it, even the EU!
  • Nigna, on 08/28/2008, -8/+7I support Russia, not the NATO puppet régimes.
    • razzmataz, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1What about the Russian puppet regimes? do you support those too?
      • Nigna, on 08/28/2008, -1/+0I guess you fell asleep in 1989. There are no Russian puppet régimes today. Even Belarus isn’t one, though their leader aligns with Russia.
  • nickvdk, on 08/28/2008, -7/+11I would like to say hello to the bots hired by the Russian propaganda ministry trying their best to make Russia look like the good guys. All your messages are worded and structured the same! haha! nice try Russians!!
  • ciaran036, on 08/28/2008, -4/+6Anti-Russian propaganda. Russia are right to recognise the independence of these regions. There would be democracy without the ability to declare independence. Russia are respecting the democracy of these regions. Georgia is not. In fact, despite the fact that these regions declared independence, Georgia was not able to respect their "territorial integrity"!
    South Ossetia is ethnically part of Russia.
  • McCain4eva, on 08/28/2008, -7/+0***** this Propaganda, you people are pathetic, you got a bankrupt army of misinformed consumerist cowards. Talk about a dead end. ***** NATO

    McCain 08
  • xxxkrogoth, on 08/28/2008, -3/+9So America can go around kicking arse and Russia can't? Come on! How long you think the Russian's are going to put up with this *****. What if Georgia DID provoke this. Besides, it's not any of America's business. Stay out of it and quit being the democracy police of the world.
  • diggafrica, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5For far too long, Russia has been humiliated & spat upon by the west, I believe they have just about had enough & are flexing some muscle, to warn the west to stay out of their backyard. Nobody wana wake up da bear.. oh no.. let it hibernate...
  • obsvr12, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3Yes South Ossetia is ethnically part of Russia just like the Sudetenland is ethnically part of Germany. Its always best to just declare our neutrality in matters such as these. Had we declared our neutrality in 1940 in the face of growing conflicts in Europe and Asia, Japan would never have attacked us to neutralize the U.S. Pacific Fleet. and protect their advance into Malaysia and Indonesia to ensure a steady supply of rubber and oil. Think of the number of American lives that could have been saved. Think also of all the money that could have been saved over the last 60 years if we had not entered those conflicts, no Israel, no Palestinian problem and no hatred of America in the Middle East because of it. And best of all, no Russia. With Japan in Siberia and Germany in Moscow we'd be doing quite well and probably wouldn't even have an oil shortage since those wars were won on the back of American oil.
    • vxp19, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1Yes, because invasions of Russia always worked well for the aggressors throughout Russia's 1200 year old history.

      I'm sure 150,000,000 people would welcome the occupiers.

      How's being a troll working out for you? Well, I hope?
    • Pitofdoom, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Crushing the global economy was what make America rich !
      If Hitler consolidated rather than attack Russia there would be no Europe, and Stalin would have to attack just to stay alive.

      Russia paid and won WW2 while America reaped the benefits.

      Don't piss off the BEAR !
  • fx666, on 08/28/2008, -6/+4Russia is back to its imperial habits, although it is more like a banana republic now. All its wealth comes from its oil, its "high-tech" research is practically non-existent. But Russia is an extremely nationalistic country with its xenophobic population who is deeply suspicious of the West. Russia sees itself surrounded by the recent NATO members (Baltic States, Poland, etc) and thinks, in its paranoia, that the West is trying to "get her", so it came to conclusion that the future annexation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia is a fair response to the "NATO aggression". As always, Russia has a perverted view of the West because it completely misunderstands the Western culture. The Russian brain is so poorly designed by God or the Russian Devil that it is bedeviled by its own stupidity and sees the world as a place where everyone is trying to *****-up mother Russia.
    • Pitofdoom, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1It's utterly amazing how Russia (try as she might) for centuries can't be a European friend.
      They do seem to have a brain at 2 degrees of center.
  • enewsreference, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5It is no wonder Russia is viewed as thugs by the civilized world... http://www.enewsreference.com
  • nonsequitur668, on 08/28/2008, -3/+0As a citizen of the world's ONLY remaining Superpower i can tell you that Russia could easily be wiped off the face of the planet. Just like any other third-world country - France, The UK, ETC.
  • trollick, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3For years now Russia was like an uncool kid who was allowed by cool kids to hang out with them. They were of course humiliated and made fun of all that time. Finally Russia decided they don't need this crap anymore.
  • trollick, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3If anything it was US who maneuvered themselves into a corner with this irrational and unconditional support of Georgia.
    Because Russian response showed to many, China for example, that they don't need to take all that crap from USA anymore.
    • writie, on 09/02/2008, -0/+1China i snot playing ball with the Russians on this one either, by the way.
  • ashwinmudigonda, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5The West needs to shut the ***** up and begin to mind their own business. They had their glory as recent as a hundred years ago colonizing half the world and "educating the 'savages' about Jesus." Now that their time has come and gone, suddenly, there is this holier than thou attitude condemning occupying powers. And America has no business squeaking and instructing how Russia should behave in a sovereign country. They should get out of Iraq first before they can pick up that hotline to Russia. However, having said that, it definitely is in the interest of any country to thwart a potential attack. The existence of NATO is enough. Recognizing S.Ossetia is not an offensive act. These regions contain Russian ethnic groups and it is best left to them how they want to solve the issue. Countries geographically that small have constraints they have to live with. They can band together and stare down Russia and if S. Ossettia wants to be independent, then isn't it stupid of Georgia to force it not to? Why should Russia listen to the West when Georgia won't listen to its own "citizens" ?
    • writie, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1Russia is not part of the west now? Says who?
  • DD2CC2U, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/rus ...
  • Pitofdoom, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2America needs to kick out the UN, pull out of NATO, get our Military out of every country,
    and un-plug the red phone. Forget global "free" trade, treaties and international "leadership".

    It's not isolationism, we'll do lunch once in a while, just don't tell me your cancer stories !
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