What is Digg?128 Comments
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -10/+38russia is doing exactly what the US did in Serbia and now the US is pissed about it. except the difference in this case is that the US can pressure the west into seeing it's side of things, whereas Russia will inevitably be made to look like the bad guy
- TheImaginator, on 08/28/2008, -3/+20Moscow has maneuvered itself into a dead end?
Hmmm.
Where does Europe get it's oil and gas from again? - stevenhatfield, on 08/28/2008, -4/+21You watch, these 2 "independent" countries will be part of Russia in 6 months...
- darthjure, on 08/28/2008, -4/+19I don't understand. Why doesn't the USA want to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia? Why is it so bad that Russia does?
If Georgia "launched an attack on South Ossetia on Aug. 7" why doesn't the USA denounce this? I just don't get it. - gasoline, on 08/28/2008, -3/+15The owners of Russia don't need to do anything to gain public support. They, in fact, can construct an event through media, which is almost completely owned by the state. Much cheaper. The lie of 2000 dead at Tshinkvali ("the genocide") was one of the constructed events. From the first hours the Russian media reported of 2000 dead and showed some random bodies.
Then, in the steps of Goebbels - repeat! And repeat! And repeat! Until everyone has heard the figure "2000". - gasoline, on 08/28/2008, -3/+15Germany is the leading force of the EU.
- joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -2/+12Times have changed. The US can no longer effectively pressure Russia. They are UN members, they have plenty of oil and the world needs it, they have China to provide any goods the US might try to sanction against us.
All we could try to do is stop high tech exports to Russia, but that will really just hurt us in a time when we need more exports. Plus it would spur Russian innovation to replace the products we try to sanction.
The US is not the nation it was in the 60s or more so, the rest of the world grew up. The world doesn't need the US as it once did, we are not the leading oil producing nation as we were in the 60s. We are just one of the many industrialized consumers and our markets are not strong enough to isolate Russian markets any longer.
Our feeding China's economy has not particularly helped the situation, especially when you consider Russian and Chinese military have been doing joint military practices.
It shows our strategies have done little more than push our questionable allies into a coalition of their own, which excludes US oppression and interference.
When we say things like.. YOU ARE THE AXIS OF EVIL. No matter what our intentions or justifiable causes, we create a need in that opposing country for more militaristic type of rule.
That's EXACTLY what happened to Iran. We labeled them, and they reacted by voting in their version of right wing war party leaders. That's the natural human response to a threat.
You don't whimper away with you tail between your legs and beg the US's forgiveness. No, you get angry, you unite your people, you devise anti-occupation strategies to make invasion of your nation too overwhelmingly expense.
Like 911, threatening another nation only unites them against a common enemy.... US.
Terrorists now face what was mostly a US effort, to a world effort to monitor and eliminate them. No matter how successful their attack, the pressure they face in response from the world is much greater. The only difference is they have much less wealth and infrastructure to lose and that makes them that much more effective in fighting the long hard war of resisting an occupation. - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -1/+10and it has the third (or 4th according to some sources) largest economy in the world. It has quite a say in international affairs
- jeremyduffy, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9Offer aid to the parties that need it and stay the F out. Just like we should have done in Vietnam and many other conflicts throughout the world. We are not the world police either.
- inactive, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9Germany has massive and disproportionate influence in the EU. he isn't "completely wrong" at all.
- CRCulver, on 08/28/2008, -2/+9"I don't understand. Why doesn't the USA want to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia?"
South Ossetia has a population of merely 60,000 and no economy to sustain an independent state. It would seek to join Russia almost immediately. So, what you'd have in the end is land taken from Georgia and given to Russia. No wonder people don't want to approve of that. - JoeVet, on 08/28/2008, -1/+8Why is there no evidence of genocide except the reports from PRAVDA and Ossetian separatists? There is no independent evidence. Where are the pictures of mass graves or bodies? Blindly accepting Russian propaganda shows an ignorance of Russian history.
- newzooreview, on 08/28/2008, -2/+8Russia is a Nazi state. It's citizens, stung by their lost sense of global importance, are slavering to follow a dictator who feeds them messages and images of their greatness. The attack on Georgia would be laughable if it weren't for the terrible effect on the lives of people in a country that has embraced democracy, freedom, and an open society. Unlike the vast majority of you, I have traveled frequently to Georgia (although I am not Georgian), and I know that the true crime here is by Russia against it's former colony that won't continue to submit to its bullying.
- xxxkrogoth, on 08/28/2008, -3/+9So America can go around kicking arse and Russia can't? Come on! How long you think the Russian's are going to put up with this *****. What if Georgia DID provoke this. Besides, it's not any of America's business. Stay out of it and quit being the democracy police of the world.
- Amnesia10, on 08/28/2008, -6/+12Well under the Russian constitution they can invade anywhere where there are Russians in trouble. Where next Switzerland London or Stockholm? Maybe we should recognise the independence of Checnya?
http://digg.com/politics/Russia_s_Immoral_War_agai ... - Timbo1970, on 08/28/2008, -3/+9The concern isn't with Russia stopping the Georgian firing on S. Ossetia. What is worrying is that Russia stopped Georgia and then kept on going, taking control of the port of Poti well outside of either breakaway territory and setting up road blocks. And then continuing to destroy Georgian security infrastructure after signing the peace deal. And it's still in Georgia, a long way from the breakaway regions.
It seriously puts all their claims into question. - buckrogers1965, on 08/28/2008, -3/+8Because Georgia troops were trained and equiped by American soldiers. There were American "Observers" that were accompanying the Georgian troops when they attacked and got their asses handed to them.
I say, good for Russia. Don't let the ***** dictate to you what you can do on your own borders. We certainly wouldn't let another country put military trainers into Mexico and equip them with modern military equipment, why do we expect other countries to allow us to screw them over in a similar way? - sklter84, on 08/28/2008, -16/+21Russia intervened in a genocide which is good in my book. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing was just to gain public support from it's citizens.
- sdrozdet, on 08/28/2008, -3/+8I'm really surprised by this article. If anything, what this incident has demonstrated is the total lack of substance in the American foreign policy of late. We've spread ourselves too thin, and now don't have the strength to get take a stand (even if this stand would have to be outside of our sphere of influence and supporting a party - Georgia - that's clearly in the wrong here).
Still, despite that, America is trying to flex its military muscle by installing a missile defense shield in Poland. Of course Russia is going to take it "the wrong way" - just as the US wasn't thrilled when Russian missiles popped up in Cuba. America should take a second to evaluate its priorities, especially the ridiculous "we'll fight for democracy anywhere there's oil" doctrine. - sprash, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5This article quotes all well read and most trusted newspapers in Germany. If you read it you really get all sides of opinions represented by the German press with the highest considered credibility.
If you think they have "a big prejudice sign hanging on their backs" it is your opinion. And you may or may not be right. But the article had at least its value to show you this. - JPHR, on 08/28/2008, -7/+12Russia will simply wait till Bush clears the White House.
The old Nato members France and Germany will do the same as Russia. Merkel is probably quite fed up with Bush.
Only Britain tends to follow Bush still blindly.
The next president will hopefully heed the advice from conservative (Not NEOCON) Pat Buchanan: http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/08/pjb-blowback-from ...
As soon as the truth sinks in the Georgian electorate will return their idiot president to the USA where he might enjoy an endowment chair at the American Enterprise Institute:
http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSLR1 ...
All those projections of USSR type expansive (communist) ideology are a figment of NEOCON imagination and fear mongering for the election. Bush rather sours international relations by trying to invoke a cold war (which Russia certainly is not looking for) than letting McCain loose the election.
Do not forget that Bush/Cheney are quite desperate for a next republican government to ensure that there will not be a thorough investigation and criminal proceedings of their meddling/lying/fabrication of evidence in relation to Iraq/"loosing" all White House e-mail in the period leading up to Iraq/the list goes on...,/Plame outing/Cheney not complying with classified document procedures (is trying to cover his tracks)
Check Wikipedia on Osettia and Georgia and make up your own mind on the in my view highly questionable claims of Georgia on Ossetia.
Russia simply defends it's interests and probably even did the right thing. - thoughtcrime, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5I don't agree that Germany did not think much about Russia since the Napoleonic Era.
The Germans were pretty concerned about Russia during the Cold War. After all, the Soviets did divide their country in two and place a large wall between the two halves. They also had thousands of troops, tanks, and missiles poised to strike, and blockaded Berlin for a time, creating an international crisis. Germany was concerned enough about it to rebuild their own military, and to allow for the placement of U.S. and other foreign troops on their soil via NATO. - fucknuggets, on 08/28/2008, -5/+9russia is just waving its dick and trying to see how much it can get away with
- VandyB, on 08/28/2008, -3/+7Thankyou all for your valuable comments. So glad you could grace us with mature, well thought out posts.
The Digg Community. - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Great shape? Russia's population is still falling by 800,000 people per year. The average life expectancy of a Russian male is 61 years. With a population of 1/2 the US Russia has a GDP of $1.3 trillion. They trail Brazil. The US defense budget is nearly as large.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russi ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ...
Russian oil output has peaked, even has they drive out western investors like BP.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0528/p01s04-wosc.htm ...
It will be fun to watch the crash in Russia again. - nickvdk, on 08/28/2008, -7/+11I would like to say hello to the bots hired by the Russian propaganda ministry trying their best to make Russia look like the good guys. All your messages are worded and structured the same! haha! nice try Russians!!
- feeldarhythme, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Even if the vast majority of Ossetians want it?
- anillop, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4I can wait to see how the citizens of Chechnya react to the ability to just declare your self a state. This should be fun to watch.
- fucknuggets, on 08/28/2008, -2/+6no Georgia is really the victim. Georgia had been trying to gain admission into NATO for some time. This is bad for Russia because it makes a great build up place for NATO forces. So basically Russia gets some South Ossetians to stir up some *****, passes out citizenship to any one that wants it, and goes in for the safety of there citizens. Thus blocking any chance that Georgia may have had at getting into NATO. There also using the opportunity to wave there dick around and show that they are still somewhat important
- Togusa09, on 08/28/2008, -4/+7Because the US can't say anything nice about Russia... I can only hope that Obama can do better if he gets in... It's been political agenda after agenda for the past 8 years without any thought to the actual people involved.
I've given up hope of there being any change under Mc Cain. There's been a few good points he made years ago, but they seem to all have realigned to the current Republican agenda... Why does politics have to attract all the bastards... - enewsreference, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5It is no wonder Russia is viewed as thugs by the civilized world... http://www.enewsreference.com
- AlmostEvil, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4The north sea? The middle east?
- trollick, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3For years now Russia was like an uncool kid who was allowed by cool kids to hang out with them. They were of course humiliated and made fun of all that time. Finally Russia decided they don't need this crap anymore.
- feeldarhythme, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Ramzan Kadyrov criticized John Mccain for his opinion about independence for Chechnya.
Chechens voted for staying with Russia in 2003, and they don't want to leave. At least now. - nwshc, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3There was no ***** genocide you *****. You DIGGtards need to stop drumming up false evidence to praise Russia and hate the West.
- trollick, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3If anything it was US who maneuvered themselves into a corner with this irrational and unconditional support of Georgia.
Because Russian response showed to many, China for example, that they don't need to take all that crap from USA anymore. - ashwinmudigonda, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5The West needs to shut the ***** up and begin to mind their own business. They had their glory as recent as a hundred years ago colonizing half the world and "educating the 'savages' about Jesus." Now that their time has come and gone, suddenly, there is this holier than thou attitude condemning occupying powers. And America has no business squeaking and instructing how Russia should behave in a sovereign country. They should get out of Iraq first before they can pick up that hotline to Russia. However, having said that, it definitely is in the interest of any country to thwart a potential attack. The existence of NATO is enough. Recognizing S.Ossetia is not an offensive act. These regions contain Russian ethnic groups and it is best left to them how they want to solve the issue. Countries geographically that small have constraints they have to live with. They can band together and stare down Russia and if S. Ossettia wants to be independent, then isn't it stupid of Georgia to force it not to? Why should Russia listen to the West when Georgia won't listen to its own "citizens" ?
- polumrak, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3We laid some pipes after us, so — from the dead end.
- cyberdork, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3The genocide claims (of both sides) were already debunked a few days after the fighting began. Human Rights Watch already evaluated the civilian casualty numbers and couldn't find ANY sign of a genocide.
- TheMachine1, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3That was the same pretext that Hitler used to annex many nations before WWII.
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5I agree with many of your points, but not this one:
"...while in the background the US fights a losing war for 5 years..."
We are no longer at war with Iraq (that one lasted all of 3 weeks.) We are trying (and failing) to stabilize Iraq, which is in the middle of a civil war, and that's a very different proposition. The US military is a lot more capable of fighting a war than the Russian army is. - jasgeo, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3and where might they be without European customers for that oil?
- jasgeo, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2"Do as I say, not as I do."
- diggafrica, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5For far too long, Russia has been humiliated & spat upon by the west, I believe they have just about had enough & are flexing some muscle, to warn the west to stay out of their backyard. Nobody wana wake up da bear.. oh no.. let it hibernate...
- joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3The US is controlled by old people who grew up in the cold war.
What more do you need to know to understand there are tons of psychological reasons for us to find any military invasion by them threatening, especially right as we surround them with missiles.
There is also that pesky pipeline, but in all reality Russia doesn't need it, so personally I think it's a perfectly valid move.
The Russia economy is growing fast.. why would you prefer Georgia ? It's a weak useless nation with no future other than being puppet for the west.
What national pride could you possible have.
Russia is the motherland, with a space program, a huge military and more of the worlds resources than any other nation. What's Georgia got ? US support ?.... pfft.. not really.
But.. Hey .. thanks for those 2k troops uselessly fighting a dead end war in Iraq. - joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3More like total BS than irony.
- anillop, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2What genocide? For some reason the only people with any so called proof of this genocide is the Russian government who is coincidently looking for some sort of justification to invade Georgia so it can be re-annexed.
- joeanon, on 08/28/2008, -5/+7Putin is the one laughing while the international community proves all it can effectively do is whine, not threaten Russia.
He showed that Russia is now a force like the US, which can again do what it pleases, but now without a JFK like figure to stand up and threaten back.
As you can see Bush immediately backed away from any real commitment to Georgia, as he should have, but certainly not with the old cold war tone of our thriving economy vs the inevitable doom of the USSR's economy.
Russia is growing faster than they have since perhaps Peter the Great, so they are not concerned too much with the international community of the US and Europe who economies aren't doing half as well. They are focused on their own internal growth primarily.
Their invasion of Georgia seems to be fast and clean to me and clearly the Georgia President was insane to shell a bunch of civilians.
Even if they weren't Russian citizens, it would still be crimes against humanity and Russia, like the US could march in on that claim alone.
I think in the US you've been tricked to see this as a grand failure like Israel's attacks on Lebanon, which are regarded as a failure and definitely didn't get the attention it should.
In reality Russia showed it can pull off clean and quick regulatory military action and effectively eliminated the threat in no time at all while in the background the US fights a losing war for 5 years that was entirely unprovoked.
Russia fought a war for like 5 days and was provoked. I don't see how this makes Russia look bad.
If anything, it humiliates the US and shows our gross incompetence and that world leaders have absolutely no respect for Bush and no real fear of the US military which is now weakened, underfunded, war weary and well, in this war, a complete embarrassment. From MISSION ACCOMPLISHED to torturing prisoners, to the utter failure that is Baghdad: The City of Walls.
Is Russia destroying Georgia, dismissing their police forces, blowing up their utilities and torturing their war prisoners ?
If not, then by relative example, they are kicking ass. - ciaran036, on 08/28/2008, -4/+6Anti-Russian propaganda. Russia are right to recognise the independence of these regions. There would be democracy without the ability to declare independence. Russia are respecting the democracy of these regions. Georgia is not. In fact, despite the fact that these regions declared independence, Georgia was not able to respect their "territorial integrity"!
South Ossetia is ethnically part of Russia. - robinthehood, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3I don't know why this is being dugg down? Russia doesn't simply put. Look at the factbook if you need proof:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world ...
Pretty balanced trading all around.
I think people just get their panties in a bunch because Russia sees no problem with Iran developing Nuclear energy. -
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