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More evidence that atheists are nosy bullies
worldnetdaily.com — An atheism-promoting organization has withdrawn its lawsuit demanding that Christian baptisms of children be banned in Italy, after a U.S.-based legal team took on the defense of a bishop and the Roman Catholic Church there. -All parents have the right to raise their children in their religious tradition, which obviously includes baptism.
rjwusa- 37 diggs
- digg it
- rightwingattila, on 08/15/2008, -13/+31"More evidence that atheists are nosy bullies." Was there ever any doubt?
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -16/+14So what is that evidence? Please elaborate.
Parents don't own their children. The right to educate, should not include pushing any dogma. There is no way around this, unless one is intellectually and morally bankrupt. But if you see a reasonable ground for make your children believe in the unproven and in the non-defensible, rather that think and decide for themselves, please tell.- georgiajim, on 08/15/2008, -11/+22Are you so arrogant that you presume people like you should have a say so about how a parent raises their child? Please let me know when you plan to say this in public and not hiding behind a keyboard. I will be able to sell enough tickets to pay for your medical bills and make money myself. Some father would have a field day with you. Your statement is one of the most asinine things I've read in a while.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -17/+9You do not own your child, get that trough your thick head, what is so hard to understand? Indoctrination is child abuse, nothing less.
And what is that about "hiding" behind a keyboard? Are you threatening me? And "sell enough tickets to pay for your medical bills"... Is that what would your gentle jesus do? You sir, are one crazy and dangerous man.
Do you have any valid argument at all to defend indoctrination? You don't. Fear was always your one and only card, you have nothing but blind faith and blind rage. - Tookson, on 08/15/2008, -7/+16The greatest and most important thing a parent can instill in their child is a love for God and belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world. It is becoming more and more difficult these days because of the atheist scoundrels who want to turn our children away from Christ.
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6) - dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -16/+8@Tookson
No, this is not the most important thing. The most important thing is to raise a child into a reponsible person, who can decide for himself / herself, based not on blind faith and fear, but on reason and informed judgement. - georgiajim, on 08/15/2008, -7/+17You misunderstand me, dx74a19. I am not threatening you in any way. I see a possibility to make some money.Crazy is a relative term. You see, I think you are crazy. You are very safe making your remarks with a keyboard. I'm just saying if you make these remarks in public in front of a group of parents, some father is likely to kick your butt. I would like to sell tickets to the event. I'm not dangerous, sir, if I were, I wouldn't post my remarks. I would do it in person. You are correct about not "owning" a child, but even the government makes us responsible for that child until they are, in most cases, 18 years old. Your method is to do nothing for the child. Feed, clothe, roof overhead. The basics. You would not allow a parent to instill, morality,responsibility, respect, knowledge of right or wrong, good or evil. You see, sir, the way some parents teach their children is based on their beliefs. You would deny a person to believe in what they know and feel? You, sir, have a right and duty to raise your children the way you think is best. I, personally would never presume to tell you how to do that. But, you sure as hell will not tell me how to raise mine. Have a nice day
- Sandy1000, on 08/15/2008, -5/+18dx, the government doesn't own the children either (in terms of "ownership") but the government demands that children get vaccinated without the consent of the children. Children are mandated by the government to get a basic education - without the consent of the children. Parents also leave the care of their children in the hands of strangers ("Day care Centers) without the consent of the children, and the government allows this. Parents also determine medical treatment for their children - without the consent of the children. Parents also involve children in cultural practices of celebrating birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Hannuakah, Bar Mitsvahs, Quincerias, anniversaries all without the consent of the Children.
Children are NOT independent. They are not given the freedom and right to determine their own choices because common sense dictates that they are incapable of knowing what is best for them until they have achieved certain maturity levels.
Once children come of age and enter into their majority then they are free to make their own choices. But with freedom comes responsibility. As children, parents enjoy the freedom to make the best choices for their children and also have the sole burden of responsiblility for those choices. But once children become independent, then they become solely responsible for their choices. It is patently absurd to suggest that a 5 year old has the mental, emotional and intellectual capacity to determine whether Catholicism, Buddhism or Atheism is an appropriate choice for him.
The Law presumes that the parents of a child love that child better than any other person or organization and nature dictates that the inherent instinct to nurture and protect a child will triumph over all potential danger (that is within one's control.) You may be able to point out a few anedoctal cases where the parents obviously were the dangerous ones, but that is certainly not the norm and you cannot make moral or legal law based upon abnomalies.
In essence, Yes, parents do infact "own" their children (your word there) and have every moral and legal right to determine the choices for their children until they reach the age of accountability. If you remove that right from the parents, then you must remove all burdens of responsibility from the parents as well. - georgiajim, on 08/15/2008, -6/+13Sandy1000, great post. Sure wish I was that good. 20 thumbs up!!
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -14/+8Give me a break, you would like to sell tickets... Stop clowning around with nonsense. But you are not correct again, "my method" is not what you say. You wrongly assume, that morality, responsibility, respect and so on, are invented by or derived from religion. Preferably your religion of course, your system of beliefs in the supernatural. Take note: Morality does not come from sacred scriptures. It was developed trough millions of years of evolution.
I'll tell you, I don't expect that religious parents stop teaching their doctrine to their children. We are far from that, for now. Go ahead, teach your child what you want, but you should tell, if you are honest to yourself and to your child, that your world view does not have a monopoly on truth. You should not teach that only your group is the only and the chosen one and you should not teach that science is a hoax. I hope we agree with something here. - georgiajim, on 08/15/2008, -7/+14In this case, dx74a19, I would never deny you freedom from religion in teaching your children what you believe. At the same time, I will not allow you to deny me freedom of religion to teach my children what I believe. We will just have to agree to disagree.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -15/+6@Sandy1000
You state that the government does not own the children, but demands vaccination, basic education, etc. Yes, we agree on that, of course. But excuse me, celebrating birthday without consent is slightly different that installing fear of eternal damnation.
"As children, parents enjoy the freedom to make the best choices for their children"...
I just worry that some of your "best choices" are very bad indeed.
"It is patently absurd to suggest that a 5 year old has the mental, emotional and intellectual capacity to determine whether Catholicism, Buddhism or Atheism is an appropriate choice for him."
Yes, it is and absurd suggestion. This is not my suggestion. It is just stupid to expect that a young child could understand religious teachings (a bible; if in fact it could be understood) --- So don't push it! Can you come to a different honest and reasonable conclusion? And please do not respond again that only religion is what is needed to teach morality. - rjwusa, on 08/15/2008, -6/+14"...You wrongly assume, that morality, responsibility, respect and so on, are invented by or derived from religion..."
Uh.... Our nation and it's laws are based on English Common law, which finds it's origins in the Magna Carta, which is derived from Biblical Scripture. So yes, western morality, responsibility and respect ARE Biblically based, whether you like it or not. - dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -14/+4@rjwusa
Did you know, that chimps and gorillas, as well as many other animals, exhibit moral behavior? It's a scientific fact, not some vague idea. No magna carta here. Of course, human moral skills are much more developed, but the main point is this: We know morality because it is in our genes --- not because of sacred scriptures, but, many times unfortunately, despite of these scriptures. Thank goodness for that! - BlazeofFire, on 08/15/2008, -5/+9dx74a19: Yes - I do own my child, not the damn government either. My way or the highway. Sorry - I gave birth to a 14 POUND Child - its mine and my husband's. End of story.
rjwusa: Excellent post - yes our laws are based on English Common law, I just wonder how much longer our laws will be based on English Common Law because with the current invasion of illegals and legal immigrants that don't care or give a rats ass about "English Common Law" but rather despise anything English and white for that matter will last? Especially since every effort has been made to ensure the English (white) people in this nation are eventually wiped out, soon to be the minority and displaced permanently? Welcome to the turd world. And another dark ages as never seen before. - dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -11/+5@BlazeofFire
Neither you nor the government owns another person. People are not owned. Parents are stewards of their children, not owners. Only slaves are owned, and fortunately that era is over in the western world, and not thanks to white supremacists. If it would be right to own a child, it would be right to teach propositions about how the world operates, that have absolutely no scientific support or that even go against scientific evidence. Most propositions from religious doctrine do exactly that. It is wrong.
End of story. - SQLDigger, on 08/15/2008, -4/+5Government indoctrination ftw!!!
What a jackass. Not even worth formulating a reply. - rjwusa, on 08/15/2008, -5/+11"....Did you know, that chimps and gorillas, as well as many other animals, exhibit moral behavior? It's a scientific fact, not some vague idea. No magna carta here. Of course, human moral skills are much more developed, but the main point is this: We know morality because it is in our genes --- not because of sacred scriptures, but, many times unfortunately, despite of these scriptures. Thank goodness for that!..."
Chimps & Gorillas have been documented to engage in behavior that man engages in. Murder, killing of their young, homosexuality, incest, rape, cannibalism, theft, rage, jealousy, envy, just about any behavior that western society deems as immoral. The difference between Chimps, Gorillas and Man is that man has a moral code from scripture that dictates what is immoral and moral. A Gorilla or Primate hasn't a clue that the above antisocial and deviant behaviors are immoral. Morality isn't in our genes. Morality is a learned behavior. If morality was genetic in origin, then we wouldn't engage in the killing of each other, our unborn, cannibalism, infidelity, stealing, assault, homosexuality and any other taboo deemed as immoral. Only man has the capacity to rise above the rest of the animal kingdom to limit his own behavior through the teaching of morality. Man was given Scripture to give him a blueprint of rules to follow, to separate him from the lower animals. The trend in comparing the 'morality' and behavior of animals as justification for how man is to act, is a cop out which denies that man can be a moral creature who can rise above acting like just an animal. - rjwusa, on 08/15/2008, -5/+9"....rjwusa: Excellent post - yes our laws are based on English Common law, I just wonder how much longer our laws will be based on English Common Law because with the current invasion of illegals and legal immigrants that don't care or give a rats ass about "English Common Law" but rather despise anything English and white for that matter will last? Especially since every effort has been made to ensure the English (white) people in this nation are eventually wiped out, soon to be the minority and displaced permanently? Welcome to the turd world. And another dark ages as never seen before...."
Sharia Law; -Coming soon to a country near you. Learn it, Live it, Love it! /sarcasm - rjwusa, on 08/16/2008, -5/+10"....You do not own your child, get that trough your thick head, what is so hard to understand? Indoctrination is child abuse, nothing less...."
Then we ought to round up the NEA and the gay brigade along with the secular humanists to be arrested and jailed for the indoctrination of our children and child abuse. - Equinox2012, on 08/16/2008, -7/+6"Uh.... Our nation and it's laws are based on English Common law, which finds it's origins in the Magna Carta, which is derived from Biblical Scripture. So yes, western morality, responsibility and respect ARE Biblically based, whether you like it or not."
The laws in the bible were taken from Babylonian/Assyrian laws written long before the first Torah. Morality is a social construct based on family group and communal living in early tribes. No god or religion is needed to produce a moral community.
To prove my point that morality is a social construct look at this. We frown on pedophilia and child molestation and consider it unlawful. However, who here can tell me what age Adam and Eve were when they were created. All we know is that the are of birthing age. That could be as early as 12 years of age. While you may not like that answer, there is know evidance to say otherwise. Many Judeo-Christian-Islam groups have know this and for centuries and had no problem in marrying off children at young ages... many just entering childbearing years. We see this in Jewish culture as Bar Mitzvah, Bat Mitzvah "the Jewish coming-of-age ceremonies".
This does not become a problem until science/observations gets involved tieing childbearing deaths and child mortality to the age of the mother. The older the mother the better her body can deal with the birthing. In time you have a snowball effect leading to marrages not happening until the girls are older, mental maturity... until now when we have laws protecting under age children. Regardless of how it evolved, you have what was accepted by God, now made it illegal. - Equinox2012, on 08/16/2008, -7/+5BTW: My children are not baptised, nor do they attend church. However, if my wife (who is a studying Christian) wanted to take them to church I would not be against it. We have discussed religion for our children but came to conclusion that it will be their decision when they are old enough. They will be exposed to religions and histories of many kinds thoughout their young years so that they know what it is and how it works. They will be open to making a truly informed decision.
- 4wheel, on 08/16/2008, -5/+7"We have discussed religion for our children but came to conclusion that it will be their decision when they are old enough"
It's a parents job to teach. Maybe your children will find out for themselves that christian taught morals are wrong, and hedonism is right. I'm sure you'll be proud. You can always pay for an abortion. After all, it's legal. Your argument about how old Adam and Eve were is quite funny. How old are you? - Equinox2012, on 08/16/2008, -6/+740
I will teach my children all sorts of things... like logic, research, analyzation and study. I have quite the library.
I don't know a Chistian who doesn't partake in hedonism... what's your point? - Taquoshi, on 08/16/2008, -2/+6Don't know about anyone else, but I see plenty of our local youth who attend church and were brought up "right" in the police reports for underage drinking, or other offenses or in the most tragic cases, in the obituaries.
Indoctrination implies that the person is unable to made a decision for him or herself. Our child has proved himself quite capable of making plenty of decisions against our wishes. I would imagine there are other parents out there who have noticed the same thing about their offspring.
I have also come in contact with young people who were never given any kind of religious training at all and frequently, I have heard "Why didn't anyone tell me this before?" - dx74a19, on 08/16/2008, -8/+7@rjwusa
"A Gorilla or Primate hasn't a clue that the above antisocial and deviant behaviors are immoral."
No, you are either deluded or lying. They have a very good clue what is moral. We can take another example: indigenous people, who never had any contact with the judeo-christian doctrine, have well developed moral skills. Again, you go right against what is discovered trough scientific method. But the people from remote places surely are very spiritual. Their world explanation includes all sorts of spiritual agents. And to use your same appeal, only agnostics and atheists are able to rise above the unreasonable childish spiritual world view and call spade a spade, even when the scripture says it is blasphemy or taboo. We must do it, because blindly following sacred dictates many times leads to unnecessary suffering. - Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -5/+5Equinox....
"The laws in the bible were taken from Babylonian/Assyrian laws written long before the first Torah"
Huh?
You know, GOD told NOAH what was right and wrong, and what foods were "clean" and "unclean" (healthy / unhealthy) Looooong before He had it written down for the Hebrews. In fact, God told a LOT of people what was right and what was wrong, and he gave each person a conscience (which is why you have internal discernment, should you choose to engage it; it's NOT evolution!), and they blew Him off. The Babylonians and Assyrians were latecomers. - Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -4/+4The most fortunate children in the world are the ones whose parents teach them HOW to think, so that they will be able to see through the manipulations and lies of cults and God-haters.
The biblical prophecies that have already come true are far, far too involved to have been actuated by any sort of group-think, or self-fulfillment. It has been proven by secular science over the past 50 years that the prophecies are indeed VERY old. Of course, anyone who is not interested in investigating every possibility when it comes to faith can simply refuse to study. Hatred is darn good at crowding out rational thought and understanding. - 4wheel, on 08/16/2008, -3/+2Equinox2012. If I explained my point to you, it would be an effort in futility. If I got smart with you, how would you know?
- Equinox2012, on 08/17/2008, -1/+3@ Salesti
Noah was a Sumerian named Utnapishtum (as in the Epic of Gilgamesh). Many of the myth and stories in the Bible come from older stories of the Sumerians. The Assyrians and Babylonians were easy going when it came to absorbing theology and myth. By the time the Torah was written down, it was already polluted with ancient stories polished up and rehashed to fit the singular view of a people. Like many Disney cartoons... the original story is usually not so friendly to the ear as what you perceive.
Don't deny the ocean's waters because you can not drink them.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -16/+14So what is that evidence? Please elaborate.
- notbysight, on 08/15/2008, -9/+18The Legally Illiterate Italian Union of Rationalist Atheists and Agnostics ....can't even pass gas.
- FaithAlone, on 08/15/2008, -10/+17i want ONE atheist to prove there's no God. The universe, the people, and the creatures of the earth testify that there is a God. Suffering and wars prove satan. If you believe the "big bang" you have to have more faith in that junk than in God!
- dshPls, on 08/15/2008, -14/+8Your evidence of god is unverifiable and untestable, so trying to explain anything to you is a waste of time. You made the claim God exists, so please demonstrate it. You're the one with the theory, prove it.
- Nannybell, on 08/15/2008, -7/+9If the Creator exists totally *other* from how we exist, outside of our ability to encounter/discover Him on a physical level, then how would we prove Him on a physical level? Any suggestions? We clearly lack the technology to do this, so why do you require it?
It is entirely rational to surmise there are two choices: either we were put here, or we got here ourselves. Considering how little we actually know concerning the context of our existence and what other kinds of states of existence there might be and *where* they might be, it just strikes me as requiring a great deal of hubris to go around ordering people to prove to you that a Creator exists at all. Are you able to say that the material world is the only state of existence there is? Can you prove that? It is unbelievably unimaginative (and thoroughly boring) that atheistic scientists believe exactly that !
When people think of God, they have anthropomorphic caricatures/stereotypes of Him in their minds. For instance, they imagine God as a large old man with a long white beard like Santa Claus. But if He is other than us, then He is not a large old man with a long white beard. Not that this would interest you, but Scripture says that God is spirit and that a human being in his natural state is not able to see the *face* of God in God's natural state and survive the experience. He is totally other than us, something we are unable to even imagine. - LadyAmerica, on 08/15/2008, -6/+7Nannybell, great post! Too bad the anti-God folks will never be able to comprehend what you are talking about.
- kayala, on 08/16/2008, -9/+7Nanny, you've provided no reason and no evidence. If your little imaginary friend is impossible to prove, then don't waste your time trying to do so. You're like a little dog trying to chase its tail, not realizing that it's been docked. I hope you at least realize how ridiculous you sound - "it's totally supernatural! we can't even begin to understand it!" - so that you don't engage in more pious whining about how you're soooo persecuted; you're just fun to make fun of because you sound like a goddamned idiot.
- Nannybell, on 08/16/2008, -4/+8To any Christians reading this:
Kayala and others like her routinely follow Christians around on Digg like vicious attack dogs. When you read their posts, please understand that they believe they are doing their duty as New Atheists. They are disciples of the famous Christian-despising atheist scientist Richard Dawkins (and others of his ilk), and each day he lets them out of their cages to serve him. Their marching orders are to say as many hateful, demeaning, dehumanizing, outrageous things as possible to Christians for the express purpose of trying to demoralize us and thus run us off. Dawkins et al wishes to rid the world of all religion, and he has successfully enlisted people like kayala to do his dirty work for him. Remember this when kayala and various others on Digg make their usual vicious remarks. It's sick, but it's what they do. - kayala, on 08/16/2008, -8/+5LOL!
"like vicious attack dogs"
I wonder if you'll ever stop pretending that you're being persecuted. My post above wasn't nice, but it wasn't just a collection of biting insults. You can either respond to my point or you can sit here and cry like a little baby, and I think I know which of the two you picked.
(By the way, I'm not exactly a "disciple" of Dawkins. He's a smart guy, but I don't really consider any of the New Atheists to be my Jesus. Thanks for once again showing how presumptuous you are, though.) - sgiffy, on 08/16/2008, -5/+5@Nannybell: Please explain how your arguement above could not equally be used for every single religion in existence.
- rightwingattila, on 08/17/2008, -3/+3I just block 'em Nannybell, that way I don't have to bother with their dribble.
- Nannybell, on 08/15/2008, -7/+9If the Creator exists totally *other* from how we exist, outside of our ability to encounter/discover Him on a physical level, then how would we prove Him on a physical level? Any suggestions? We clearly lack the technology to do this, so why do you require it?
- Sandy1000, on 08/15/2008, -3/+12FaithAlone, technically speaking, you can't prove a negative. However, even athiests want to be loved.
Ask them to prove that love exists. What are the physical properties of love? What is the scientific and textbook definition of love? How is it manifested? What are the rudimentary principles needed in order to sustain even the most basic form of love? Can you ever know for sure that love is a reality? Can it be empirically observed? Can we define both the observable and unobservable properties? Can it be measured? Can it be replicated? Can we readily detect its presence with any instruments? Does it have mass? Inertia? Is there any gravitational pull with love? Are there any exhibited varieties of motion associated with love? Even if you never observe it, feel it, taste it, smell it, hear it, measure it, replicate it, receive it....does that mean it cannot and does not exist?- dshPls, on 08/15/2008, -11/+6Although you're going off on a strawman Sandy I'll reply. Love and god aren't classified by the same attributes, and therefore can't be defined in the same manner. Science and psychology aren't the same. I would love for you to admit that God doesn't have any scientific bearing, but is instead a psychological condition. God is supposed to be an almighty being who can manipulate time and space, creating what we know as reality. There is zero proof of this.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -8/+5@Sandy1000
You have put forward a lot of interesting questions. You, and many religious people, would be surprised I dare say, how much has science to say regarding these questions. But very probably, some things will not be explained by science. Sometimes it's because the questions are wrongly put, other times science is not there yet, or maybe it will never be. But the important thing is, that the lack of explanation doesn't mean divine explanation.
I can see, that it can be hard and cold, to explain the world with science. It may seem, that when science illuminates a previously unexplained phenomenon, god is expelled as an agent of that phenomenon and replaced by lifeless equations.
Well, we should get over that wishfull thinking. And besides, if you look, the rainbow doesn't loose it's beautiful colors, when you use science instead of magic - quite the opposite. - B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -6/+5The definition of love is simple. Love is when someone else's happiness is contingent upon your own happiness.
You only think it is hard to define because you have poisoned your mind with with the idea that an omnipotent omibenevolent creator loves you even though he keeps kicking you around. You are Jesus's battered wife as it were.
Thats not love;) - sgiffy, on 08/16/2008, -3/+4See this:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/820857.stm
Love exists in your brain just like any other emotion or thought. - Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -3/+3Hey, dsh....is this in the Bible somewhere, or did I make it up?
"7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."
Well, now, if that's not classifying God and Love by the same attributes, I'll eat my keyboard! Looks like God just got Himself PLENTY classified! And what a great classification!
B1663r ...you said "The definition of love is simple. Love is when someone else's happiness is contingent upon your own happiness "
But I beg to differ. When it comes to someone else's happiness, mine is not required. I am already joyful and grateful that God found me so valuable and worth loving that He sent His only son to die for me and pay for every offense I would ever commit. On the other hand, I derive great joy from the happiness of others, and am always -- ALWAYS inspired to find ways to share my blessings.
Okay....I admit, you meant it the other way 'round, but neither is my happiness truly contingent upon the happiness of another. I have learned the very, very hard way that it is stupid as hell to make another human responsible for my joy.
What makes me happy is knowing my savior PERSONALLY, which I do (and I don't mind if you want to believe I'm insane), and in sharing all the good things in my life, which includes the understanding that there IS a God, and He's the living definition of LOVE.
- dshPls, on 08/15/2008, -14/+8Your evidence of god is unverifiable and untestable, so trying to explain anything to you is a waste of time. You made the claim God exists, so please demonstrate it. You're the one with the theory, prove it.
- SOLGAARD, on 08/15/2008, -12/+14All pagans can do, is complain about Christians FAITH. Something they have NEVER had, perhaps never will, (and all men fear what they don't understand).
- B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -5/+10/me standing out in rain
God strike me down!!! Hit me with a stroke of lightning!!! Now!!! Give me some reason any reason to think that you exist that you are greater than the mythologies of man!! ANYTHING!!?
/God ...
Nope, no fear at all of that, which does not exist.
On the other hand, emotionally disturbed irrational people are quite scary.- Nannybell, on 08/15/2008, -8/+8You, standing out in the rain, looking like an idiot, thinking you can force the Creator of the Universe to strike you with lightning. That really proves something.
This means nothing to you, but is relevant:
“ 'Let us break their chains,' they cry,
'and free ourselves from slavery to God.'
But the one who rules in heaven laughs.
The Lord scoffs at them." (Psalm 2)
In other words, God thinks you are a joke. - B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -5/+9LOL, omg, I think I found your problem. You are under the delusion that you can somehow escape the judgment of God. You are the one pretending you can escape that fate by utterances of mythology and truname.
I share no such delusion. I know for a fact that I am gonna die. Sounds to me like you have been avoiding that reality your entire life by pretending that there is life beyond the one we have been given;)
Gods slavery IS death BTW.
You my friend are the joke. - straybullett357, on 08/15/2008, -1/+11B1663r---I'll take my "delusion" over yours. You have determined that God doesn't exist because you stand in the rain and ask for Him to strike you down? Why would you think that a being who has existed for all eternity--even preceding time--would acknowledge a little piss-ant like yourself? It's beyond me, but He still loves you and will give you every chance to accept Jesus as your savior. I, on the other hand, wish you well in what's left of your life--enjoy yourself now because as Desi used to say to Lucy, "You gonna have some 'splainin' to do".
- Nannybell, on 08/15/2008, -9/+6How does it feel to be demon possessed?
- Nannybell, on 08/16/2008, -8/+5Note: My above comment is to B1663r
- B1663r, on 08/16/2008, -4/+6More of that battered wives wisdom I see;)
- kayala, on 08/16/2008, -5/+7Silly, presumptuous little Nannybell still thinks that she's better than everyone else because she's got an imaginary friend. If your little "God" buddy were real, wouldn't the thing want to prove its existence to the skeptical? Seems like a rather stupid deity to me, if it'll only take the devotion of credulous fools.
- Evilena, on 08/16/2008, -5/+10"God thinks you are a joke."
How can an imaginary pot call a kettle black in the first place?
Xenu used to think people like me were a joke. Not anymore. - Evilena, on 08/16/2008, -4/+11"How does it feel to be demon possessed?"
Demonically Delicious - eir574, on 08/16/2008, -4/+9Wow, demonic possession can now be diagnosed over the internet? And Nannybell knows the mind of her deity well enough to know what he thinks of specific people? It's funny how when the tough questions come up, we're told that we can't comprehend the mind of god and hence can't expect to understand him. But, when it's convenient, there are certainly Christians who have no problem professing to know exactly what their god thinks.
- Evilena, on 08/16/2008, -4/+4Bob Larson is an expert on Demons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBEbio69VRQ&eurl=ht ... - Nannybell, on 08/16/2008, -6/+6My comments about demon possession and God considering B1663r a joke were SARCASM. Guess I should have said so. I shouldn't have engaged B1663r, and I have no interest in engaging vicious attack dogs such as yourselves. I am well aware that most of you consider yourselves as foot soldiers in Dawkins' (et al) New Atheist Brigade, and that each day you come out of your cages to say horrible things to Christians in an effort to demoralize and thus extinguish us. However:
"... upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it." -- Jesus Christ.
But you can keep trying. :) - kayala, on 08/16/2008, -4/+7Nanny, you've been shut down. It might be a good idea for you to go back to your little church now.
By the way, can you actually tell us why you think that we're all taking orders from Dawkins? Evidence, perhaps? A statement?
No, you can't. You just like to act like a little martyr who's being persecuted for her stupid beliefs. - eir574, on 08/16/2008, -4/+8Given the number of times I've seen Christians on digg talk seriously about people being possessed by demons, it's hard to tell when someone's being sarcastic or not.
FYI (again): I have never read anything written by Dawkins, nor have I listened to one of his speeches. It may be easier for you to cope with the existence of atheists by taking on an "us vs them" attitude in which you're juts so terribly persecuted by people who don't want you to stop them from continuing their meaningless, sinful ways. - sgiffy, on 08/16/2008, -4/+5@kayala: I don't know about you but I get my orders from Dawkins every day on a tape that will self destruct in 3-2-1.
- Nannybell, on 08/15/2008, -8/+8You, standing out in the rain, looking like an idiot, thinking you can force the Creator of the Universe to strike you with lightning. That really proves something.
- TheCatsPants, on 08/16/2008, -3/+5I did have faith, but then I discovered something much better - truth.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -4/+4But how much better to have faith in the Truth!
- TheCatsPants, on 08/17/2008, -1/+4The truth doesn't need faith to make it true. The truth just *is*.
- B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -5/+10/me standing out in rain
- Harvester1, on 08/15/2008, -6/+9Ludicrous idea! Were the gov't to ban baptisms (and yes, that time will come) it will not stop those who follow the Lord from doing what He commanded as long as there's a drop of water left to be had!
- Sandy1000, on 08/15/2008, -6/+6True that.
Like banning homosexuality ever stopped the homosexuals from engaging in their perversities right? Banning alcohol stopped people from drinking alcohol right? Banning prostitution stopped the whoremongering right? Banning smoking in public places stopped smokers right? Oh and the latest trend, banning vending machines, snack foods and junk machines from schools will stop obesity right? Please......They may drive it underground, but they'll never stop it.- rjwusa, on 08/15/2008, -6/+9China has banned Christianity except in a few state sanctioned churches. Yet, the underground church is huge. Same thing when the soviet union was around.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -2/+3Well, Randy, you got 4 negatives, but not one peep as to why the down-diggers think you're wrong about that!
The facts can be SO annoying! :D
- Sandy1000, on 08/15/2008, -6/+6True that.
- KCLorelei39, on 08/15/2008, -4/+10more stridently intrusive litigation.... /shakes head It's one thing to want your own name removed from a baptismal registry....quite another to insist that no one else's name be placed upon that registry.
- lodibug3, on 08/15/2008, -1/+20We Christians get upset when we're generalized... I have some atheist friends who are not nosy bullies. I think we need to be careful with our titles and our rantings... if we are going to be taken seriously. China's treatment of Christians is an extremely important topic... our brethren are being brutalized. The group here has a radical, anti-religious agenda. Let's focus on that.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -3/+9Brutalizing is wrong and deserves condemnation. Decent people don't support discrimination of any kind, be them atheists or not.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -5/+3I used to run a restaurant -- wouldn't hire people who couldn't count to 100......I hope you don't think this kind of discrimination is wrong! Cashiers who can't count change back when the register's down are not useful when an entire group of people are counting on a business for their livelihood.
"Discrimination" needs to be explained in context, or it becomes meaningless. I discriminate brutally every time I shop for fresh produce. Most of it is not fit for human consumption. - dx74a19, on 08/17/2008, -2/+5@Salesti
You are a moron, grasping for straws. We all know about what discrimination I was talking about. I don't have time to put down definitions of every word, and neither do you. Use a frontal lobe for once. - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -8/+2Your problem here is that you declared discrimination of any kind to be bad. I know what "any" means, and I also know that some things I think are bad, and against which I discriminate regularly would offend you.
One boss I had (a man) refused to hire males for management. He only hired single females. Discrimination!
But he had a good reason. He discovered ALL ON HIS OWN that single females, with neither husband nor children made his operations their "babies", and optimized production. Very successful, and highly discriminatory.
Some other employer might not want to hire a kid with massive body-piercings, because HIS clientele would be rattled by all those holes. Not an indicator of hatred for a "class" of humans so much as a personal preference being expressed by the one whose livelihood is at stake. One person should not have to pay for and approve of the personal lifestyle choices of another. It is not inappropriate discrimination, yet some very immature and selfish people will tell you that it is.
We do not all understand what your highness is thinking, because different people have different opinions as to what constitutes BAD discrimination.
If you want to be understood, it would behoove you to communicate in a comprehensible manner. How about using the ENTIRE brain, hmmmmmm? - dx74a19, on 08/17/2008, -1/+6Look at you. You are fighting over a non-issue. What is your point? If I want to be understood, you say... Oh, you did understand very well, you are just pissed off. Try to understand what is the reason for your anger first, then you'll maybe be able to express something that makes sense. Your venom spitting trolling denigrates you and your religion.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -5/+3I used to run a restaurant -- wouldn't hire people who couldn't count to 100......I hope you don't think this kind of discrimination is wrong! Cashiers who can't count change back when the register's down are not useful when an entire group of people are counting on a business for their livelihood.
- MisterWonderful, on 08/15/2008, -3/+2Wow, a rational argument lodibug. You're new here aren't you?
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -3/+9Brutalizing is wrong and deserves condemnation. Decent people don't support discrimination of any kind, be them atheists or not.
- MisterWonderful, on 08/15/2008, -9/+16Wait. Christians, are claiming atheists are nosy bullies?
Hold on, I got a pot around here somewhere...- B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -4/+9Yes, they are oppressed because they can't put their nativity scene on the fire hall lawn. The church right next door to the fire hall is a totally unacceptable compromise.
- nippinawassee, on 08/15/2008, -9/+9They're getting the attention they need to make themselves feel they are winning the war against religion. Just pat them on the head and tell the to trot on down the road... they cannot stop anything - they just want to rompstomp and they think that people admire them.. or better yet, FEAR them!
- B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -7/+9Actually Atheism and free thinking are resurgent in the USA right now. I had abandoned all hope of it for a long time;) In towns that have too many churches already(from the great church build out of the 90's), permits are being denied for even more churches;)
I think perhaps the most delicious part about it is that Christians did it to themselves;) Atheists had very little to do with it.
Best part is, there is now a whole generation of kids being raised weak atheist, and they will never know what principled strong atheism is.- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -3/+3On what "principles" is your flavor of atheism based? If it's free-thinking, what's wrong with the free thinkers thinking freely about God? What if the "principles" were actually *instilled*, rather than evolving? Or is that too free-thinking for free-thinkers? Does free-thinking have limits? I've noticed that people who call themselves free-thinkers would rather insult God than think about Him.
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -2/+4Salesti,
Do you try to be a moron, or does it come naturally?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethinker
Here is the rare bit of starters research that I offer. It took me almost... five seconds to find that. I had to click on the google bar and type "wiki free thinking" it was the first option that came up. I think from there you will learn (Im giving you some credit here. Really!) that when you talk about Free Thinking in modern North America you are in fact talking about organized atheism.
From there, and my subtle hints at one possible way to use the internet, you can probably learn the difference between principled strong atheism and weak atheist as well.
But until you have done me the simple respect of minimally understanding what atheism is (pro tip: not a pejorative variant of heathen) it looks like you are babbling incoherently... Which you are... Because the only people not insulting God on this thread, by speaking on his behalf, are the atheists. - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -4/+1Ah, my young friend....you have so much contempt for people with whom you share nothing in common! "Moron" seems to be a favorite insult of yours.
I'm so please to hear of your concern for my internet skills! Why, I've only been using it since the days of the ancient providers -- before the blazing 14.4 modem was know to humankind! I certainly could use some contemptuous and condescending insults here, so thanks!
I'm glad you can "google" in under five seconds. What an accomplishment! And thank you for your extensive example of "rambling incoherently". Now I know what to avoid! - B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4Salesti,
You are old then, and old people are supposed to know things. You don't, and something has stunted your growth. That is the textbook definition of moron. In all your research for all these years on the internet you somehow missed that "Free Thinker" is synomnous with organized atheism. Yet you seemingly have an interest in these issues.
Your prior post on this thread you said "I've noticed that people who call themselves free-thinkers would rather insult God than think about Him." You were wrong about that as well. I insult the people who believe in him, as there is no God to insult.
Because...
Have you done me the minimal respect of learning the difference between strong atheism and weak atheism yet? I bet you haven't;) I bet you are assuming something along the lines of a weak atheist holds his belief less fervently than a strong atheist. ROFL.
You know, I have been having this discussion since I had my first 9600 baud modem 20+ years ago. We did it on the BBS's back in the day, as there was no real public access to the internet yet. In all that time I have yet to meet a single fundamentalist who will do me the dignity of minimally knowing about atheism, as you have. You persist and delight in your ignorance. The insults are well earned.
If you want to learn, then keep talking. I will do you the respect of continuing to point out where you are ignorant, or wrong, if you agree to study and know (Im not asking you to agree here, only to minimally know what you are talking about) the basic tenants of atheism.
For all my petulance, you will never see me on a street corner calling people whores, and threatening them with eternal damnation. I will only ever talk to people who agree to have the discussion. Until Christians fix that injustice, you have zero grounds to be incredulous to my insults about your lack of intelligence. Go look at the title of this thread again. The very premise of this discussion is Christians insulting Atheists. You haven't even done me the simple dignity of not generalizing all atheists together.
So don't be surprised when I hurl insults at you for your practiced ignorance.
- B1663r, on 08/15/2008, -7/+9Actually Atheism and free thinking are resurgent in the USA right now. I had abandoned all hope of it for a long time;) In towns that have too many churches already(from the great church build out of the 90's), permits are being denied for even more churches;)
- DuggDowner, on 08/15/2008, -10/+10It's too bad they dropped that suit. Raising a child Christian should be considered child abuse.
- dshPls, on 08/15/2008, -6/+5Your comment is dumb, and whenever atheists try to hold a discussion there's always someone like you to make us look bad. Say "I personally believe" before you post such idiotic comments please.
- DuggDowner, on 08/15/2008, -6/+5I personally believe you are a douchebag.
- LadyAmerica, on 08/15/2008, -6/+7Dugg, no doubt, really believes his inane statement, as per his other posts on DIGG.
- georgiajim, on 08/15/2008, -5/+5dshPls meet dungbeetle, troll extraordinaire.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -2/+3Thanks...I appreciate that. No digg-down for you!
- kittydee1, on 08/17/2008, -2/+0being your neighbor should be human abuse.
- dshPls, on 08/15/2008, -6/+5Your comment is dumb, and whenever atheists try to hold a discussion there's always someone like you to make us look bad. Say "I personally believe" before you post such idiotic comments please.
- Attius, on 08/15/2008, -8/+11How fitting; the Roman Empire failed at eradicating Christianity, as well.
...poor, poor atheists...- darneveryone, on 08/15/2008, -2/+9...which is one of the main reasons why it collapsed
- catholic2u, on 08/15/2008, -13/+10Agnostics and atheists be aware that you only get one chance to gain salvation in this life and only one. Don't throw it away. Proof of God is in everything around you. All you have to do is open your eyes and ears to Him. For me it would be much more difficult to think that God does not exist but then I was lucky enough to have been born a Christian. I don't know why I deserved it except that I am inclined to pray for those not so lucky and maybe there is someone out there who I helped to save. Anyway, no matter what you think, there will come a day when we will all know the truth. Don't waste your life. It is so short and eternity so looooong. God Bless.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -7/+11Proof of god is not everywhere around, there is nowhere to be seen. The mere existence of the cosmos does not count as proof, as evidence, or as a hint. And for the record, I like many atheists, do not assert that there is no god. I just think, that given all the evidence, it is vanishingly unlikely that there is god. Specially the abrahamic god, or any god for that matter that takes interest in human affairs. But in principle, I am prepared to change my mind, if such unlikely evidence should emerge. Are you able to change your mind? I just say, we must take responsibility to be intellectually honest. And I'm afraid that especially for religious people, this may mean thinking hard about many things that are believed to be sacred and beyond criticism.
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -5/+6Dx, even some of the contributors to the Bible asked God "Why are you so interested in us? Why are we so valuable to you?"
I have a dare for you, but you have to be REALLY, truly willing to do what you say you're willing to do....
Tell God (even with your doubts about His existence) that IF He will prove to you in a way you can comprehend that HE exists, and WHO He is, that you will do things HIS way -- and things will start to happen that you just did not expect. It will only work if you mean what you say, and are willing to go with the truth, no matter what the truth turns out to be. - dx74a19, on 08/17/2008, -3/+5@Salesti
I would happily acknowledge the existence of god if proved by evidence, like I would happily welcome the existence of santa claus. If I would do things his way, I'm not sure. I will think about my decisions by myself, I have a free will and I am able to know right and wrong - if god's way is the the wrong way, I would spit in his eye and tell him to ***** off and learn some manners. I'm no slave. You should do the same. - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -5/+6I spent many years contemplating whether I wanted to willingly give up authority over my life to an invisible being. Actually, I do not. But after much study and rational though (most people will not bother to study -- they just SAY they do), I came to the utterly non-emotion-based conclusion that there IS a Supreme Being, and that He knows better what I need than I do.
Not good for my little ego.
I have since discovered that any other way of doing things -- any attempt at reliance on my own plans without God's guidance cause me to end up like a rat in a maze that has nothing but blocked exits. I am actually MORE free than when I was a slave to my precious plans and ambitions. I'm much better able to adapt to new conditions that weren't part of my original plan -- and I always get where I need to be. I would hate to go back to my original self-inflicted bondage! - LadyAmerica, on 08/17/2008, -4/+1dx... said "I like many atheists, do not assert that there is no god. I just think, that given all the evidence, it is vanishingly unlikely that there is god..."
If you "do not assert that there is not god," then you are by definition, not an athiest. A-theism: A (no) + [theos (god) or theism (belief in god). 1 a : disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b : the doctrine that there is neither God nor any other deity. (Webster's Unabridged)
You are more likely a skeptic or an agnostic, or some combination of the two. - StaticThunder, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5Just because you want the definition changed, doesn't mean it will. I accept the possibility that your God could exist, I just find it incredibly unlikely. However, as I am the worst kind of atheist from your perspective, IF your God existed I would try to destroy him. He would apparently be a genoicidal, hypocritical, child-deity who would deserve to spend eternity in the hell he created for us all by himself. I would say the same for any other God who intentionally created a living being and then punished it for not behaving contrary to the nature it was created with. Original sin my ass.
You deserve the gods you worship. - dx74a19, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4I actually think that LadyAmerica and others are in the end really fine people. Salesti even makes chocolate cookies - and who doesn't love chocolate cookies, ha? No sarcasm ;)
- Salesti, on 08/16/2008, -5/+6Dx, even some of the contributors to the Bible asked God "Why are you so interested in us? Why are we so valuable to you?"
- LadyAmerica, on 08/15/2008, -10/+8Yes... !
If only they would seek God with an open and honsst mind, then they would find Him. So sad, that many of them will refuse to do so.- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -4/+4God is so incomprehensibly huge, and so absolute, the thought of being responsible to Him is terrifying -- some folks would rather not check it out for themselves!
If I had checked Him out years earlier than I did, I wouldn't have done so many stupid things.
- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -4/+4God is so incomprehensibly huge, and so absolute, the thought of being responsible to Him is terrifying -- some folks would rather not check it out for themselves!
- JWNimrod, on 08/15/2008, -9/+7Proof of God IS all around, you just have to open your heart as well as your mind to understand. Most of you don't even have a door to open.
- kayala, on 08/16/2008, -8/+9I see: you have to be a credulous fool who actually desires to believe if you really want to believe. Thus ends today's lesson in circular reasoning.
- B1663r, on 08/16/2008, -8/+9LOL, so we have moved on from the battered wife syndrome to the Stockholm syndrome. God is stalking us and if we don't choose him he is gonna kill us and make us suffer!!! OMG you guys are too much. LOL.
- ApokalypseNow, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others, be aware that you only get one chance to gain salvation in this life and only one. Don't throw it away. Proof of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is in everything around you. All you have to do is open your eyes and ears to His Noodlyness. For me it would be much more difficult to think that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist but then I was lucky enough to have been born a Pastafarian. I don't know why I deserved it except that... blah blah blah.
Do you see how that works? You have just as much evidence for your assertions as I do - exactly zero. Neither of our statements should be taken seriously.
- dx74a19, on 08/15/2008, -7/+11Proof of god is not everywhere around, there is nowhere to be seen. The mere existence of the cosmos does not count as proof, as evidence, or as a hint. And for the record, I like many atheists, do not assert that there is no god. I just think, that given all the evidence, it is vanishingly unlikely that there is god. Specially the abrahamic god, or any god for that matter that takes interest in human affairs. But in principle, I am prepared to change my mind, if such unlikely evidence should emerge. Are you able to change your mind? I just say, we must take responsibility to be intellectually honest. And I'm afraid that especially for religious people, this may mean thinking hard about many things that are believed to be sacred and beyond criticism.
- TYRONEBR549, on 08/16/2008, -11/+10Deep down inside Atheists all really do believe in God. They just don't want to admit it. That is why they attack us and our belief so much. They don't want to be reminded of or think about their future before the Throne of Christ. They would rather revel in the darkness than come into the light cause they know that their deeds are evil and would be open for all to see. That is why they care soooooo much that we preach the Gospel of Christ and wish to shut us up.
- B1663r, on 08/16/2008, -13/+11That speech worked better when you had the power to burn the infidels. Now that you lack that ability, it has no effect on me what so ever. No really, there is no doubt in my heart at all. A God like you describe, the type of God with a capital G in the front of His name, does not exist. Because you and God lack that ability, I am able to be totally honest.
Am I sinner??? You bet! I masturbate when my wife wont sleep with me. When my wife does sleep with me we ***** for the pure please of *****. We use withdrawal as birth control, but we are not totally closed to the idea of more children. When we were younger, we had an open relationship and even engaged in group sex orgies. We quit doing that because it ***** hurt, no moral condemnation needed. Unless she lied to me we were both promiscuous as teenagers.
I don't steal, but then I don't need too. I don't cheat on my taxes, because with the current tax code, I don't come close to the standard deduction, as I bought a house I could afford(shocking but true). When I'm at work, and I have leverage over someone, I use it.
I lie about the weather. I constantly tell everyone I like the current weather, even if I hate it.
I like to play violent video games. In fact the more horrifying the better. Bioshock with all the little girl harvesting was a blast!
I drink on occasion. Once again, when I was a teenager I smoked a lot of pot. I was a Greatful Dead groupie for a year. So I did lots of Mushrooms and LSD that year as well. I wonder if I have any kids out there(I wonder if any of those girls had abortions)? Well no one has tried to contact me.
Still looking for my wicked evil ways. Hmmm, Im sure you see a lot of that is evil, but at previously stated, you lack any power over me. The way you console yourself with your judgment of me is by pretending that one day the score will be settled.
And I am not attacking you(some others here did perhaps). I am trying to free you from the prison of your own mind. I thought my way out of all that superstitious bull crap, you can to. Please keep speaking, because it is plainly apparent on this thread that there is more doubt among the believers than their is faith. Every time you speak it give me an opening to try and free you.
Oh, and your post was entirely wrong;)- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -7/+3Doubt among believers?
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -7/+7Salesti-
Take the clergy challenge. Go up to a long time clergy member, and ask them point blank: "Do you believe in God" ? Notice the run to platitudes and dogma? No succinct "Yes." Why do you suppose they give you such a lawyerly weasel worded answer? - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -7/+2The only clergy I know personally are sold-out, on-fire (not rabid, slobbering podium pounders), God-loving servants. They not only *believe* in God, they model every aspect of their lives after Him.
I realize that this may be a somewhat rare situation.
In my mid-twenties (the mush-headed years), I met so many HYPOCRITES that I felt fairly sure I would never be a person who professed faith in Jesus. All that crap that came out of their mouths, and the holier-than-thou types were the worst. Un-spiritual pseudo-Christians are the *worst* sort of people to be around, because they provoke emotional responses in others, which leads to attitudes like "You Christians are all the same", even though the person thinking or saying that can't possibly have met all the people who call themselves Christians.
I got past the emotional upset of so many idiots who couldn't even pay attention to their so-called God long enough to do what He asked, and started reading the Book for myself.
But just for fun, I'll ask my pastor in the morning and see what he says! Stay tuned. - B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -1/+5Well what did he say?
- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -6/+1Okay -- just for some background: I did NOT tell him why I was asking him the question. I just said "I need you to answer something for me. Do you believe in God?"
I was expecting he would say either "Yes" or "Absolutely". I was close....he said "Yes, absolutely!"
We talked about personal freedom, slavery, etc., and he suggested I go check out a move that has Anthony Hopkins in it (I don't know what it is, but I plan to look it up), in which Hopkins' character is so enamored of gorillas that he becomes an accepted member of their group, and goes to live with them until some other humans wipe them out. He said there's a scene in there where this man is in jail (he assaults the people who kill the gorillas, I think), and he and his lawyer have a discussion about freedom. I'd relate the scene, but I ramble too much as it is -- anyhow, the point of the whole discussion was WHAT is freedom? My pastor pointed out that we're all slaves to something. If we don't eat, we die. If we don't breathe, we die. If we don't work, we don't eat. We (usually) choose our employment, and we're basically slaves to the boss, because we have to do what the boss says. Even the self-employed are subject to market forces. If we're on welfare, we only get what the government gives us. In no absolute sense is any person free -- we all have to choose the things to which we submit ourselves.
I hadn't thought about it that way before, but it makes sense to me. I hate that I have to get exercise and limit my double-fudge chocolate chunk cookies (which I make with Trader Joe's chocolate), but there it is.
*sigh*
I'm a slave to the scale!! - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -5/+1It just now occurred to me what a great challenge that is. I don't know why you got dug down for suggesting it, because it's a terrific litmus test. It dawned on me (a minute ago) that if my pastor HAD waffled on that point, I would have been horrified. I'm going to keep that simple question in mind when I find myself talking to other people in church leadership.
- TYRONEBR549, on 09/03/2008, -1/+1every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord.. that includes you
- eir574, on 08/16/2008, -8/+12"That is why they care soooooo much that we preach the Gospel of Christ and wish to shut us up."
It takes an extraordinary amount of arrogance to believe that people disagree with what you have to say because you're a much better person than they are and they don't want to have to consider that fact.
You're the one who wanders around on digg telling people how they don't measure up to the standard you set, that they live only to seek pleasure, that you know what they believe deep down better than they do, and that their grandparents are ashamed of them.
I much prefer the humility of my Christian friends who don't go around telling people that they've found the one best way to live and the only way to be a moral person. They don't believe that they're being persecuted because they're much better people than the rest of the world. In fact, they don't believe they're being persecuted at all. They're not nearly arrogant enough to believe that they know what's in the hearts and minds of other people. You should be glad that I've been exposed to people such as them, because your brand of Christianity is truly disgusting. Not because you're such a good person that it makes me realize how terrible I am, but because you're such an arrogant, obnoxious person and you credit Christianity with having made you that way.- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -7/+5So....ummmmm....where did Tyrone say that Christians were "much better people" I just can't see it anywhere.
I fact, the Bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's standards. ALL. Not just pagans and atheists. The Bible also says that those who are faithful to God WILL be persecuted. And it says He will "spit out" those who are lukewarm -- the feelgoodies and ear-ticklers.
The Bible says that God knows the hearts and minds of everyone.....Christians are supposed to be humble, but this doesn't mean shutting up when they've also been given a message and told to share it. - eir574, on 08/17/2008, -5/+12He says that "[atheists] would rather revel in the darkness than come into the light cause they know that their deeds are evil and would be open for all to see." Do you think he also means that he revels in darkness and commits evil deeds, or does his statement imply that he's giving an example of how atheists are different than Christians in an extremely negative way? He's placing himself above atheists because he does not revel in darkness.
He says that atheists reject his message because it would require them to stop behaving immorally, the implication being that Tyrone himself has risen above this. In addition, I'm not basing my comments just on his one paragraph here. I've read a bunch of them. He recently told me that if I don't believe in a deity, then that means I must only seek pleasure and possessions in life. Again, he places himself above that. He's also told me that my family is ashamed of me. I assume he doesn't believe that's true of himself. Are you saying that he believes the insults he levies against atheists also apply to himself? I somehow doubt that, and certainly he neglects to say so. If he says that atheists are [insert grossly negative quality here] and it doesn't apply to himself, then he's saying, albeit a bit indirectly, that he's a better person.
"this doesn't mean shutting up when they've also been given a message and told to share it."
Nor does it mean detailing the various ways in which a particular Christian believes himself to be more enlightened, more moral, and in general a better person than atheists are. It certainly does not mean telling strangers on the internet that they bring shame to their families, which he has happily done before and for which he had no apology (in fact, he smugly told me that he was merely telling me a difficult truth). He presumes to speak for my grandparents despite the fact that he doesn't know them and that one of them can barely speak for himself anymore.
How is any of that humble? I've shown a few of his comments to my Christian friends, and they're disgusted that he presents himself as a representative of Christianity. - B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -4/+10Salesti -
He insulted me when he claimed to be psychic and that he knew that I believed in God. That is insulting in at least three way I can count without putting too much thought into it. - Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -4/+4Well, B1, I hereby personally apologize for his insensitivity to your feelings. I do think, though, that his stance of certainty (however inappropriate) is rather kinder than the accusations of mental deficiency that have been flung at me and at my friends on Digg. Even that doesn't bother me, because I consider the level of maturity of the angry people flinging them. Just let it roll off you, and keep on digging!
- eir574, on 08/17/2008, -2/+10Tyrone is just Tyrone. He's arrogant. I doubt anything we say will stop him from insulting atheists in the name of telling them the terrible truth. What surprises me is when more reasonable people defend him.
- Salesti, on 08/17/2008, -7/+5So....ummmmm....where did Tyrone say that Christians were "much better people" I just can't see it anywhere.
- sgiffy, on 08/16/2008, -9/+10Wanting to believe in something is not the same as having evidence to sustain the belief. Is the idea of an all loving friend in the sky who will let me live for ever and ever in paradise appealing? Sure it is. So is the idea of leprechauns with gold for the taking.
Part of growing up is realizing that how we want things to be and how they actually are, are not one in the same. - ApokalypseNow, on 08/18/2008, -3/+7"Deep down inside Atheists all really do believe in God. They just don't want to admit it."
False - there's no evidence of the existence of the supernatural, much less your flavor of it. Lacking evidence, there's no reason to believe in it.
"That is why they attack us and our belief so much. They don't want to be reminded of or think about their future before the Throne of Christ."
No, I attack your beliefs because you want to dilute the teaching of evidence-based science by including such ludicrous concepts as "intelligent design" or just out-and-out creationism in publicly funded schools, passing off your unevidenced assertions as fact. I attack your beliefs because you want to legislate morality based on your bronze-age mythology. I attack your beliefs because you think that two of every animal in existence lived within walking distance of Noah's house. I attack your beliefs because you believe in talking snakes.
"They would rather revel in the darkness than come into the light cause they know that their deeds are evil and would be open for all to see."
Why do you idiots always insist this? People are accountable for their actions without the need for mythology - modern societies do this by creating and enforcing laws. In fact, atheists are dramatically underrepresented in the US prison population (0.2%) as compared to the general population, so one could argue that atheists are MORE moral than theists, in general.
- B1663r, on 08/16/2008, -13/+11That speech worked better when you had the power to burn the infidels. Now that you lack that ability, it has no effect on me what so ever. No really, there is no doubt in my heart at all. A God like you describe, the type of God with a capital G in the front of His name, does not exist. Because you and God lack that ability, I am able to be totally honest.
- Stevanoski, on 08/16/2008, -5/+5These same people troll Jews too.
- sgiffy, on 08/16/2008, -2/+8Some atheist group in Italy =/= evidence for the behavior of all atheists. While I think its silly and wrong to raise kids religious I think the dangers of the state getting invloved is even worse.
I am perfectly capable of thinking someone wrong without asking the state to come and stop them. Otherwise I would have ensured long ago that NASCAR attendance be made a capital crime. - Christianptriot, on 08/16/2008, -11/+9You have to ask yourself WHAT is it about Jesus Christ that bothers so many atheists, hindus, muslims, buddhists, etc. Could it be the TRUTH?!?!
- eir574, on 08/17/2008, -4/+12It's not your deity who bothers me. It's some of his followers. I suspect many others feel the same way.
- kayala, on 08/17/2008, -2/+8eir574 is right; I don't care about your theology. I care about the freakish followers of that theology who are willing to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of others for it.
- LadyAmerica, on 08/17/2008, -10/+3You have it all wrong! Christians will sacrifice their own lives for, but NOT the lives of others. I think you were talking about Muslims, who are famous for killing themselves and others for Allah, as is mandated in the Qur'an.
By the way, Christians don't give their lives for "theology", but for Christ. - kayala, on 08/17/2008, -3/+10Like I said, for theology. I don't care what kind of ***** you believe so long as you don't try to take my rights away because of it.
- Squidwalk, on 08/18/2008, -1/+7I think LadyAmerica just stated that the Christ she believes in is not a God. That is very confusing.
- Evilena, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4David Koresh was a Christian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn0hcpyGuac
So was Hitler. I am sure you are going to say that these people and those that killed 18 million in the inquisitions are not real Christians just like many Muslims call themselves the religion of piece and say those people are not real Muslims.
- LadyAmerica, on 08/17/2008, -10/+3You have it all wrong! Christians will sacrifice their own lives for, but NOT the lives of others. I think you were talking about Muslims, who are famous for killing themselves and others for Allah, as is mandated in the Qur'an.
- StaticThunder, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6Yeah, lies and ***** don't bother me at all, I just get worked up over the truth. You got me there, moron.
- ashfish, on 08/18/2008, -1/+7Perhaps its that your religion calls their deities and beliefs false? Yeah, I'd be a bit perturbed too if I felt just as strongly towards my Hindu gods as a Christian did towards their god.
- Evilena, on 08/18/2008, -2/+8What is it about Scientology that bothers so many atheists, christians, hindus, muslims, buddhists, etc. Could it be the TRUTH?!?!
Or could it be something else? - dx74a19, on 08/18/2008, -3/+6You have to ask yourself WHAT is it about the Flying Spaghetti Monster that bothers so many atheists, hindus, muslims, buddhists, etc. Could it be the TRUTH?!?!
Pastafarians are persecuted. It must be because they have been touched by His Noodly Appendage. RAmen!
- bioya1, on 08/17/2008, -14/+4Atheists have a choice:
1) Accept Jesus Christ as their saviour, die and go to Heaven
2) Die and go to Hell
Those who know they have this choice and still choose #2 deserve what they get.- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -10/+10Do you date all your stalkers?
- eir574, on 08/17/2008, -6/+16You have to make the same choice with respect to every other religion that promises rewards or punishments after death. You've made your choice, so there are a whole bunch of other gods waiting in the wings to torment you after your death.
See how that doesn't work? - dx74a19, on 08/17/2008, -8/+11So, according to jesus, we live an an god-awfull place that is inevitably going to hell. Upon birth of everything living, the destination is already set: eternal damnation. The only only chance to be saved, is to surrender all and blindly embrace to divine devotion of him, the lord.
I can see that It must be terrifying to live this (almost) completely desperate reality. The very concept of having come to life in flesh must seem the most unfortunate thing.
So, in the end, it's all about fear.
But jesus loves you... - kayala, on 08/17/2008, -5/+16Cute, but I don't see any reason why we should believe that. Why don't we believe any other theology's take on death and the afterlife? Why is Christianity the only legitimate faith?
- bioya1, on 08/18/2008, -13/+3To all my liberal and unbelieving detractors I say this: enjoy you time in Hell. Forever is a really long time.
- kayala, on 08/18/2008, -6/+13No proof, no belief. Sorry, buckaroo, but you won't get very far simply declaring yourself right and never backing up a word you say. Now, by all means, continue ranting like a lunatic.
- bioya1, on 08/18/2008, -9/+3No one can prove that there is a god, but yet again no one can prove that there isn't, either. It all comes down to faith, either one has it or one doesn't. You fall in the group of people who are too lazy to discover their own maker.
Lacking faith and mocking God is no way to go thru life. I am sure that you'll have plenty of company in Hell since so many leftists like you do reject their own maker. - s0l0s0ul, on 08/18/2008, -2/+10bioya1, you are an abomination not only to Christianity, but to all religions. You remove the beauty from religion, as the essence and the beauty of religion is faith. The essence of faith, is not fact, but being sure of what you hope for, and certain of what you do not see. Instead of realizing the weight of your decision, to follow Christ, and accept what a scary, and yet life rewarding decision this could be, you instead choose to beat other people over the head with your "proof of God" rather than accept the only fact about religion, which is that you have absolutely no idea if there is a God, but you choose to believe that there is one.
Just so we are clear:
I myself, do not know for a fact that there is a God, but I did make the choice to believe that there is one. I would NEVER claim superiority because of this choice, not in the way i choose to live my life, not in the conversations that I have, and most definitely not in ANY relationships I have with anyone else. The essence of Christianity, is not being right, or convincing others that you have the "ultimate answer to the universe" or to condemn anyone, the essence of Christianity is CHRIST. He loved and accepted everyone, while spreading a message of hope. Nothing you have said in this thread has been "christ like" in any way. You should examine that. - kayala, on 08/18/2008, -2/+9bioya, you've still not given us a single rational reason why we should believe you. You've merely threatened us with imaginary rewards and punishments. Why is it that you can be assumed to be telling the truth when ApokalypseNow below cannot? I'll repost here:
Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others have a choice:
1) Accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as their savior, die, and go visit the beer volcano and the stripper factory
2) Die and go to hell (which, according to the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is the same as heaven, except the beer is stale and the strippers have VD).
Those who know they have this choice and still choose #2 deserve what they get.
It has exactly as much validity as does your claim about the existence of your "God". Perhaps you should try being rational instead of believing in the ridiculous and supernatural. If you believed in any other supernatural creature, we would consider you insane, and rightfully so. How should this situation be any different? What you believe in is a supernatural, invisible, imaginary man in the sky who is all-powerful but never shows us this power and who opposes science and sex, among other things. This is ridiculous and will get you labeled crazy - and you deserve no less, to be sure. - bioya1, on 08/18/2008, -6/+2Kayala, one cannot expect a brain dead lib (an atheist defender at that) to understand the dimension of religion in one's life. You have not matured in that area and have yet to be transformed. As I said in my original post, you're headed for Hell. Does my saying this bother you? Good.
- s0l0s0ul, on 08/18/2008, -2/+8and the lord said "love your neighbor as yourself, unless they have different beliefs than you, then you don't have to love them, instead, you can judge and condemn them and say that you're doing it in my name. Make sure you try to alienate them, AND yourself so that no one hears my message, and instead you turn everything I have said, into petty, unchristlike, slander."
One of the only times in the bible that Christ became angry, was when he went into his fathers house, and there were people there doing things in the name of God, that had nothing to do with God. You are one of those people. Your message carries with it nothing of Gods love, it just carries condemnation and idiocy.
The rest of the time he hung out with the poor, and the prostitutes, and the murderers, and anyone else who wanted to hang out with him, and never once did he condemn anyone, or throw up a superiority complex. You misunderstand Christ, and his message; it is quite obvious.
Hey Kayala, sorry, not all of "us" are as misinformed or misguided as this guy. I read your posts, and quite often digg you up, because I can understand your frustration, with bible bangers such as this person, who dont actually have a message. - kayala, on 08/18/2008, -1/+7You have no idea what you're talking about. You believe in talking snakes, imaginary friends and Jewish zombies. Go back to Stormfront, you blabbering idiot.
solosoul, thanks for the support. I know that a lot of the time when I'm railing against "Christians," I mean the bossy nitwits like bioya1 who think that they're the hottest thing ever and they can't possibly be wrong. While I do find theology quite silly, it's not my place to tell you what you can and can't believe - just to point out the evil and hypocrisy present in these circus side-show freaks. - bioya1, on 08/18/2008, -7/+2Disagreeing with me doesn't mean that I don't have a right to my opinion. My opinion is that you are a member of two highly sought after minorities (Atheists and ***** supporters). I'd join them both but I don't hate myself that much.
Calling me names only shows your lack of forming cogent arguments in your defense as well as having a lower mental capacity.
I just love getting your panties in a wad. - kayala, on 08/19/2008, -0/+5It frightens me that you are that interested in my panties. I suppose God didn't make a law against that particular fetish.
I never said you didn't have a right to your opinion; I simply said that my opinion is that yours is ridiculous, unfounded and unrealistic. Wishful thinking, in a nutshell. Now, by all means continue shrieking about teh evil gays. It reinforces the opinion (free, of course) that you're a closeted homosexual because you fight so hard against any mention of homosexuality. - bioya1, on 08/19/2008, -7/+1The panties thing is a figure of speech dumbass.
The fact that you fight so hard FOR ***** tells me that you are the closet *****. Maybe not in a closet any more, eh?
As a mocker of God, choice no. 2 is looking good for you. Congrats. - s0l0s0ul, on 08/19/2008, -1/+6"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you -- who are you to judge your neighbor?"
bioya1, you are a disgusting example of a "Christian" and a perfect example of a hateful liar.
"...if you know the good you ought to do, and do not do it, you have sinned."
You disgrace Christ and pure Christianity. IF you actually are a Christian you KNOW that you have been commanded to love your neighbor, and to be a light to the world, spreading the good news of great joy. You have failed at this call to action, and instead choose to foster hatred, and stir up trouble.
You are an abomination to this faith. You are a deceiver, for no true follower of Christ would act as you do. There is no love in you, only spite and ungrounded superiority. You are a Pharisee. - kayala, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4One's sexuality is not necessarily an important factor in the decision to campaign for equal human rights for all people. Sadly, your bigotry keeps you from understanding that gays are just as human as you are. The intellectually lazy tend to think in generalities and keep people in clearly defined categories, as you've so aptly demonstrated for us.
By the way, I can't mock something that doesn't exist. I can, however, mock you for being a credulous, superstitious juvenile.
- StaticThunder, on 08/18/2008, -3/+9I'd rather spend an eternity in hell than five minutes with the likes of you, or your genocidal, juvenile, hypocritical child-god, bioya1.
- ApokalypseNow, on 08/18/2008, -4/+10Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others have a choice:
1) Accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as their savior, die, and go visit the beer volcano and the stripper factory
2) Die and go to hell (which, according to the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is the same as heaven, except the beer is stale and the strippers have VD).
Those who know they have this choice and still choose #2 deserve what they get. - Mnementh2230, on 08/18/2008, -3/+10Any god that would give me a rational mind to think with and then punish me for using it isn't worthy of devotion.
- SQLDigger, on 08/19/2008, -5/+3You're in luck. He didn't give you a completely rational mind.
- Squidwalk, on 08/19/2008, -1/+5You speak truth sir! I wish it wasn't so, though. If everyone was totally rational (including me) things would probably be a lot easier for a lot of us. We could better convince each other, and not have any petty differences.
Man, I haven't seen you comment in a while, but I want to tell you you've been like a Ghandi figure to me. That exchange we had has given me a lot more respect for the average Christian, and I've felt a lot less angry toward others who differ in belief than I do. I was just bickering with some dude called thomas7 a few minutes ago, and now I feel bad about it. I really should stop commenting on these religion stories, it's a bad habit. When it comes down to it, at least three quarters of the people don't really want to discuss anything, and it's kinda an exercise in futility.
Just wanted to say hi. I watched that BBC Color of Magic movie I mentioned to you, it was pretty good, I recommend it for some fun. Hope everything's well with you. - trogdoor, on 08/19/2008, -1/+2@Squidwalk or SQLDigger
Mind linking to this exchange? - Mnementh2230, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4SQLDigger, considering your general education level, I think you're in no position to start talking about the rationality of my mind. You haven't even learned HOW to think yet.
Maybe, when you can look at evidence and draw conclusions from said evidence instead of trying to cherry pick (badly, I might add) evidence to back up your pre-concieved notions, you can talk about rationality. - Squidwalk, on 08/19/2008, -0/+3trogdoor,
Here you go: http://digg.com/political_opinion/The_Fowl_Atheist ...
SQLDigger is a much smarter guy than his brief comments can express, and is fully capable of tackling anything I can throw at him seriously and respectfully. While I'm sure there are some foolish Diggers that comment on these religion threads, I have confidence that several of the people who post regularly are intelligent people who have more in common with each other than they think. We shouldn't degrade ourselves and each other by bickering. Many of us hold conflicting positions, but this conflict should end with the position and not the person. - SQLDigger, on 08/21/2008, -0/+2Hey, squidwalk, good to see you again. Thx for the friendly comments. I enjoyed our exchange as well, though I have to admit, I still get drawn into these silly conflicts, too. Though Ghandi-like I'm probably not. If Ghandi was a 230-lb white guy who worked in IT and spent his spare time lurking on Digg and baiting atheists, maybe the analogy would hold.
Seriously, though, you are completely right about the general unwillingness to intelligently discuss complex issues in a forum such as this. Although, it's probably a fair estimate that when a thread title includes something to the effect that "atheists are nosy bullies", it's safe to presume you won't find much dispassionate discussion of the comparative virtues of a theistic vs. an atheistic perspective. I can't say that's entirely a bad thing, because sometimes interesting discussions do occur as a result. Conflict has a way of bringing up a certain creative intellectual energy at times. It's all too rare, though, as it requires an honest effort on both sides to understand what the other person is saying (which presumes that we are interested in what they have to say - I think it's fair to say for most of us that this is not always the case). In a mob environment like this, the nuances tend to get lost and we tend to rely more on our "pre-conceived notions" about our presumed "opponents" - and also about ourselves. Which, as you pointed out, demeans us, and negates the value of the discussion.
I'll have to check out that BBC version of Color of Magic. Thanks for the head up. Anyway, take it easy. Nice to see you're still commenting. I have to admit, I've been lazy lately in my own commenting. Quality conversations take a lot of effort, especially on Digg . . . Anyway, hope to see you around.
- SQLDigger, on 08/19/2008, -5/+3You're in luck. He didn't give you a completely rational mind.
- TYRONEBR549, on 08/17/2008, -8/+4Look at all the response I got. Thinks for proving my point. The more you deny the more you sound as if you are trying to convince yourself that the lie is the truth and that the truth is the lie. Doesn't work though. God is still on the throne and we are still going to be judged according to our decisions made here. Christ is coming and there is nothing you can do or say that is going to change that. So get ready!
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -2/+9As you are now being rebuked by even the Christians here... I think you pretty much define fail;)
- TYRONEBR549, on 08/18/2008, -5/+2What Christians have rebuked me?
- Evilena, on 08/18/2008, -1/+4The more you deny the more you sound as if you are trying to convince yourself that the lie is the truth and that the truth is the lie. Doesn't work though. The throne is empty and we are still going to be judged according to our decisions made here. Christ is not coming and there is nothing you can do or say that is going to change that. So get ready!
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -2/+9As you are now being rebuked by even the Christians here... I think you pretty much define fail;)
- zortnac, on 08/17/2008, -4/+10Atheists are "noisy bullies" just as frequently as people of faith are "noisy bullies," and both atheists and people of faith alike can be warm, kind and peaceful individuals. Religious beliefs or lack thereof don't dictate a person's personality. fin.
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -4/+5An interesting update;)
I have contacted the organization in question, and the entire premise that this article is based upon is fraud. Additionally, I have contacted Digg. I think this may be the dirt I need to get WND banned from Digg forever!!!
Woo Hoo I have decisively won this discussion!!!
http://www.uaar.it/ - nippinawassee, on 08/17/2008, -7/+5Seem atheists and homosexuals and abortion promoters are all cut out of the same cloth.
This article was about atheists filing a suit to prevent baptismal rites by the church. Why in the world would anyone even acknowledge such a suit?
Trying to promote religion to an atheist, et al, is like getting in a pissin' contest with a skunk - you're not gonna win.
Christians, Jews, et al, who believe in their religions should not waste time on trash. 'cast not your pearls before swine..', right?
It's simply not worth it - they don't want to hear what you have to say because I would guess it bothers them that you won't believe what they have to say.
I notice a lot of the same ones appear on anything that faintly mentions religion in any manner. SOS different day.- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -3/+5Says the person who just advocated genocide on this thread here:
http://digg.com/politics/Obama_abortion_support_ex ...
And you want us to believe that Atheists are the Bullies??? Bwhahaha! The world would be a better place if you killed yourself.- nippinawassee, on 08/18/2008, -4/+2B1663r: you need to get glasses as this is totally incorrect... not unusual but incorrect...
- StaticThunder, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4I don't talk to mini-Hitlers, Ms. spay all the women who had abortions. :P
- B1663r, on 08/17/2008, -3/+5Says the person who just advocated genocide on this thread here:
- agagqw, on 08/17/2008, -7/+1There is no such thing as atheists but merely people of other religions declaring an overt and covert war against christianity.
One has to wonder where there covert war is on islam in islamic countries
Fear not, one only has to harken back the how the jews declared war in russia made it an atheist/communist country (safe for jews to pratice secretly while non-jews became atheists) and paved the way for Stalin and Hitler....millions of mass murders and world wars
Fear not, the atheists (jews) in the US will and Europe will reduce the west into a totally atheistic secular monolith that has abandoned christianity and murdered its children....and it will end with yet another holocaust....as the next person anti-christ comes forward to mass extermination and world wars.
The covert war by jews against christians will end in their (jews) own extermination from the planet.- LadyAmerica, on 08/18/2008, -1/+2agag...
You forgot to sign off with sieg heil... or perhaps allah akbar. Or maybe even BOTH - the Muslim Arabs DID support Hitler in WWII, you know.
By the way, I hope you are not claiming to be a Christian... your words prove that you are not.- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadership were jews....and while jews were executing the mass starvations in russia and eastern europe and indoctrinating the population that orthodox christianity was superstition....the jews remained jews.
And the jews of germany were also very high in the control of the political levers, the media and politics...the reason hitler and germany turned against the jews was because they were traitorous parasites with sympathies to their russian jewry than their christian germans. What the jews got wasnt because of judaism but because of power politics....and having allegiance to a foreign nation.
Much like American jews have a great allegiance to Israel than the US...it is only a matter of time before the US population reallizes this.
And as far as being christian...and my words proving that I am not. You are incorrect. I can call upon the facts and I can have an opinion projected into the future but being christian does not blind me to the truth that jews are less about judaism than they are about zionism, power, money and exploitation of non-jews. - agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadership were jews....and while jews were executing the mass starvations in russia and eastern europe and indoctrinating the population that orthodox christianity was superstition....the jews remained jews.
And the jews of germany were also very high in the control of the political levers, the media and politics...the reason hitler and germany turned against the jews was because they were traitorous parasites with sympathies to their russian jewry than their christian germans. What the jews got wasnt because of judaism but because of power politics....and having allegiance to a foreign nation.
Much like American jews have a great allegiance to Israel than the US...it is only a matter of time before the US population reallizes this.
And as far as being christian...and my words proving that I am not. You are incorrect. I can call upon the facts and I can have an opinion projected into the future but being christian does not blind me to the truth that jews are less about judaism than they are about zionism, power, money and exploitation of non-jews.
- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
- ashfish, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5I love how a lot of you "Christians" think you're so special! I wish I were that special to think that I trump EVERY OTHER RELIGION THAT HAS EVER EXISTED. Even the religions that believe in the same deity that they do! It's very impressive.
- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadership were jews....and while jews were executing the mass starvations in russia and eastern europe and indoctrinating the population that orthodox christianity was superstition....the jews remained jews.
And the jews of germany were also very high in the control of the political levers, the media and politics...the reason hitler and germany turned against the jews was because they were traitorous parasites with sympathies to their russian jewry than their christian germans. What the jews got wasnt because of judaism but because of power politics....and having allegiance to a foreign nation.
Much like American jews have a great allegiance to Israel than the US...it is only a matter of time before the US population reallizes this.
And as far as being christian...and my words proving that I am not. You are incorrect. I can call upon the facts and I can have an opinion projected into the future but being christian does not blind me to the truth that jews are less about judaism than they are about zionism, power, money and exploitation of non-jews. - agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadership were jews....and while jews were executing the mass starvations in russia and eastern europe and indoctrinating the population that orthodox christianity was superstition....the jews remained jews.
And the jews of germany were also very high in the control of the political levers, the media and politics...the reason hitler and germany turned against the jews was because they were traitorous parasites with sympathies to their russian jewry than their christian germans. What the jews got wasnt because of judaism but because of power politics....and having allegiance to a foreign nation.
Much like American jews have a great allegiance to Israel than the US...it is only a matter of time before the US population reallizes this.
And as far as being christian...and my words proving that I am not. You are incorrect. I can call upon the facts and I can have an opinion projected into the future but being christian does not blind me to the truth that jews are less about judaism than they are about zionism, power, money and exploitation of non-jews.
- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -2/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadership were jews....and while jews were executing the mass starvations in russia and eastern europe and indoctrinating the population that orthodox christianity was superstition....the jews remained jews.
And the jews of germany were also very high in the control of the political levers, the media and politics...the reason hitler and germany turned against the jews was because they were traitorous parasites with sympathies to their russian jewry than their christian germans. What the jews got wasnt because of judaism but because of power politics....and having allegiance to a foreign nation.
Much like American jews have a great allegiance to Israel than the US...it is only a matter of time before the US population reallizes this.
And as far as being christian...and my words proving that I am not. You are incorrect. I can call upon the facts and I can have an opinion projected into the future but being christian does not blind me to the truth that jews are less about judaism than they are about zionism, power, money and exploitation of non-jews.
- LadyAmerica, on 08/18/2008, -1/+2agag...
- hank512, on 08/18/2008, -10/+5ATHEIST--one who believes that there is no deity. Why would someone who does not believe that there is a GOD be afraid of a church sacrament called Baptism? Maybe they aren't "atheist's" after all.
- kayala, on 08/19/2008, -1/+5They aren't atheist's what?
Quick grammar lesson for someone whose mother forgot to include grammar in the homeschooling curriculum:
If you put an 's after a word - dog's, cat's, man's - you are making the noun possessive, NOT PLURAL. "The dog's bone was lost" is correct. "The cat's took a nap" is not.
Why couldn't "God" create you with a basic understanding of grammar?
- kayala, on 08/19/2008, -1/+5They aren't atheist's what?
- gordonj, on 08/18/2008, -4/+10↑↑↑
More evidence that fundy christians are lying, deluded, whiney, propagandists that live in their own make-believe reality. - spinningplates2, on 08/18/2008, -6/+3Atheist are people who God has no need. God has Sheep and Goats. The Sheep have been given the Gift of Faith. The Goats have been left to get what we ALL deserve, Hell. Thank God for the Gift of Grace. Because you do not believe in God does not matter to Him. He believes in Himself.
If you are a Christian you need to understand that the atheist are only living their lives trying to stand against anything that does not put them in the place of God. And trying to not be judged for their sins, that big to them, not to be judged.- ashfish, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4Ohoh, can I be a horse instead?! I like horses better.
- Ramble, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1What a surprisingly malevolent thing for a supposedly all loving God to do.
Tell me this, Einstein. If God is all powerful he can therefore see all that has happened and all that will happen. He knows the destiny of all men.
Why would he then create some to just send to Hell?
- agagqw, on 08/19/2008, -4/+0Excuse me, speaking of trumping every other religion.
There is only one religion in the world that successfully banned and made all religions equal. 90% of Bolshevik and Soviet Communist leadersh