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156 Comments
- inactive, on 06/04/2009, -4/+179Suicide by cop. Happens.
- inactive, on 06/04/2009, -7/+107Suicide by cop is significantly more likely than the cops just showing up to blow the dude to hell.
- hdar3415, on 06/04/2009, -4/+56I don't like tasers, but cases like this is where they should be used rather than a gun.
- DarkBlueAnt, on 06/05/2009, -4/+50Running at armed cops with a knife? I call that suicide.
- rushiku, on 06/05/2009, -8/+38FTA: "Although a man was shot by police and died from a bullet wound to the chest, the state medical examiner has ruled his death a suicide because he had cut his own wrists."
This just in: All future deaths to be ruled 'death by natural causes' because they would have died eventually anyway. - Mike17102, on 06/05/2009, -8/+28Lets let a crazy bloody guy with a knife come at you sometime, see how many ***** questions you stop to ask.
- dvda2, on 06/05/2009, -5/+24Suicide by Cop. STILL HAPPENS.
Just because you state the opposite does not alter the fact that this is more likely Suicide by Cop. I really doubt they were called over there just so they could kill a person they never met.
4 years or 10 weeks (its not 10 weeks, its longer), I highly doubt that could fully train you for that kind of work. Not fully anyways. - drmangrum, on 06/05/2009, -1/+19http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
- dvsbastard, on 06/05/2009, -1/+15There is a perfectly good reason why police always fire at the center mass... and not at some smaller flailing limb...
You watch too many movies! - dvsbastard, on 06/05/2009, -0/+13I am not sure "suicide" is the best ruling in this case... but I don't think the police did anything inherently wrong... How about I give you a gun, then run at you with a knife with a crazed look in my eye, then tell me what you would do?
- blah247, on 06/05/2009, -2/+13I call ***** on 4 years Undergrad school and 4 years at an academy.
- briLo, on 06/05/2009, -1/+12Okay folks, show's over. Nothing to see here, show's... Oh my god! A horrible plane crash! Hey everybody, get a load of this flaming wreckage! Come on, crowd around, crowd around!
- oldhick, on 06/05/2009, -1/+12There is no such thing as a leg shot. Only an idiot would try that. A leg is a small target to hit and if you miss, you're dead.
Most cops don't have tasers. - Chompy, on 06/05/2009, -2/+12Strictly as a point of information; the average academy in the US is about 6 months, followed by another 3-6 months of field training.
- Kreamer10, on 06/05/2009, -1/+11A person shot in the chest can still travel up to 38 feet. Police are trained to "shoot to stop an action" they never shoot to wound (like your idiotic statement that I have never heard anyone over the age of 9 actually think would work) or shoot to kill. If you fire on an individual you are shooting to STOP his actions. Usually this consists of a 3 round burst to the center mass (the chest and abdomen).
- dty2010, on 06/05/2009, -0/+9Um... I don't think that means what you think it means.
- socokoolaid, on 06/05/2009, -1/+10No one said he was running, or running at them, just that he failed to freeze. Seems to be a common assumption in these comments.
- OrangeTide, on 06/05/2009, -2/+10Cops in my district require a college education (2 year degree minimum).
- minorgods, on 06/05/2009, -1/+9Coroner: "Worst case of suicide I have ever seen. Poor fella had knife wounds and bullets from 2 separate guns in him."
- BoneheadFarker, on 06/05/2009, -1/+9Question - Do you know that you come off sounding like Dwight Schrute when you start every sentence with the word "Question"?
- dagr8tim, on 06/05/2009, -1/+9Didn't you see the vid afew days ago of the guy that was resisting arrest and got tazed. He jumped up and ran away. Drugs can make you do some crazy things or give you near super human strength.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-MqBxwbeWg
Sadly, sometimes you have to use deadly force. - maz2331, on 06/05/2009, -1/+8Leg shots are impossible to make, and more likely to endanger bystanders. Plus unless it breaks a bone, a leg shot will be ineffectual at stopping someone running until they bleed out, which takes up to a minute, and only then if an artery is severed. Tasers MIGHT work, but there is no guarantee there either.
- charlie6969, on 06/05/2009, -0/+7Except he was not running at them with a knife.
Some neighbors even said that he had no knife.
Seems to me, with the limited information offered, that the man tried to commit suicide, went outside to get help and the cops shot him. (he may or may not have even HAD a knife, remember?)
None of us knows for sure. But, I think whoever put suicide as his cause of death should be investigated thoroughly, also. - norman619, on 06/05/2009, -0/+7FTA:
" Although a man was shot by police and died from a bullet wound to the chest, the state medical examiner has ruled his death a suicide because he had cut his own wrists."
Yes I'd say that's pretty clear cut. - Evermin7, on 06/05/2009, -0/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything
- wh3873, on 06/05/2009, -1/+8I'm going to guess you've never shot a real gun in your life. It is a really hard shot to hit a running man in the leg, it's hard enough just to hit someone in the leg. You really shouldn't shoot unless you want to kill someone. Even if you did hit him in the leg you could cut his femoral artery and cause him to bleed out.
- JustLetGo, on 06/05/2009, -3/+10Dear Sir,
My friends kids live in the house across from where this happened. They heard the gun shots and ran to their 2nd story bedroom windows where they witnessed the whole thing. One of these kids was only 6 years old.
They now have to try and deal with something that kids shouldn't have to try and deal with.
Next time you want to kill yourself, please do it in the privacy of your home. - charlie6969, on 06/05/2009, -0/+6That's just what I was thinking.
Make cops jobs so much easier; just mark all cop shootings as suicide.
None of that messy legal problems.
s/ - Kreamer10, on 06/05/2009, -5/+11People often do not have the BALLS to kill themselves and therefore make an aggressive action, with a weapon, I may add to cause police to shoot. This is NOT uncommon and it is unfortunate for the police officers. You never want to take a life and few are mentally prepared to do so when they have to. Many officers in these cases spend years in therapy and some never get over it.
We do not know from this story if there was a note. A phone call or anything else. The left wing media will write just enough so that you get mad at the cops; meanwhile obviously SOMEONE called the police to do a welfare check. I notice they conveniently left out what the issue was. I am willing to bet that he stated he was going to kill himself, could not do and when the police arrived decided to have them do it for him.
"SUICIDE" according to the dictionary is:
The act of causing ones own death. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.
Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building. - ITAvenger, on 06/05/2009, -3/+9The article in the Oregonian was a little bit more complete. It talked of the victim being covered in blood and wielding a knife. Some witnesses said he had a knife and some didn't. The original 911 call was for a bloody man with a knife.
The KATU article kind of glosses over some key elements like the slit wrists etc.. In order to paint this as another crazy police shooting.
Sensationalist reporting at it's best.
While I'm not a fan of Portland PD I must agree that this was probably the right call. Tragic.
- Kreamer10, on 06/05/2009, -7/+12People often do not have the BALLS to kill themselves and therefore make an aggressive action, with a weapon, I may add to cause police to shoot. This is NOT uncommon and it is unfortunate for the police officers. You never want to take a life and few are mentally prepared to do so when they have to. Many officers in these cases spend years in therapy and some never get over it.
We do not know from this story if there was a note. A phone call or anything else. The left wing media will write just enough so that you get mad at the cops; meanwhile obviously SOMEONE called the police to do a welfare check. I notice they conveniently left out what the issue was. I am willing to bet that he stated he was going to kill himself, could not do and when the police arrived decided to have them do it for him.
"SUICIDE" according to the dictionary is:
The act of causing ones own death. Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.
Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building. - socokoolaid, on 06/05/2009, -1/+6Because he was holding a knife and refused to drop it they killed him? There is no mention of him being a threat to the cops by trying to attack them, only that he didn't freeze. Less than lethal force seems like it would have been a good candidate. Tasers, rubber bullets, bean bag guns, an intentionally non-lethal gun shot, one of those fire extinguisher sized mace things; didn't they have any other options available? One option seems to be that they could have just barricaded him by himself in the apartment and waited for backup, non-lethal equipment, and maybe some sort of negation expert/psychologist. Although, I understand worrying that he might further hurt himself with the knife, but after seeing the outcome that concern seems silly.
- skneils, on 06/05/2009, -0/+5The thing is this kid (22 year old) was probably bipolar or something and wasn't taking his meds. I'm sure the police here aren't happy about this outcome either.
- norman619, on 06/05/2009, -6/+10Appearantly ignorance happens as well.
- wrestlingnrj, on 06/05/2009, -0/+4@theOster, most are trained in disarming/subduing people, but if someone has a knife there is a very high probability that someone is getting stabbed or severely cut.
- aelias, on 06/05/2009, -1/+5If they heard the shots, and then ran to the window, it sounds like they witnessed jack *****. Maybe your friend should teach them to stay away from the windows when they hear gunshots.
- a2fan, on 06/05/2009, -2/+6How about: "Police-Assisted Suicide" ... it's like physician-assisted suicide, but with bullets ... or tasers ... or nightsticks.
- sockpuppets, on 06/05/2009, -0/+4Maybe the guy was a zombie.
- inactive, on 06/05/2009, -1/+5Exactly, why would a 15 year officer throw his life and career away just to shoot someone for jollies, and why start now?
- socokoolaid, on 06/05/2009, -1/+5No one said that he came at them, just that he failed to comply and drop the knife.
- oxymoron69, on 06/05/2009, -0/+4Answer: Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.
- tj111, on 06/05/2009, -1/+5Without knowing enough of the details here, it seems like the police were well within their bounds when they opened fire, and they appear to be following all the appropriate steps afterwords to be sure of that. It doesn't seem like they are trying to hide anything or suppress information. Besides, plenty people commit suicide by cop, it's nothing extremely uncommon.
- Kreamer10, on 06/05/2009, -2/+5They shot him because he made an aggressive action with a weapon. Those officers were thinking exactly what they were trained to think. "I am going home tonight" some whack job with a knife is not going to kill me. See you are just reading the part of the story that you want to. Come back when you read the WHOLE story.
- daimposter, on 06/05/2009, -2/+5no, because in this case the police didn't willingly agree to the suicide...the action was forced upon them.
- PeanutCheeseBar, on 06/05/2009, -2/+5Cocaine is a Hell of a drug.
- NICU, on 06/05/2009, -1/+4The cops have to protect themselves first, they did the right thing. The medical examiner screwed up.
- brundlefly76, on 06/05/2009, -0/+3Right because cops love the feeling they get after they take a life.
They are all secretly murdering psychopaths just looking for an opportunity to kill a human being.
Moron. - socokoolaid, on 06/05/2009, -0/+3We all understand suicide by cop. This was obviously failure to use the least lethal means to subdue a crazy man who possibly had a knife.
It's lunch time Bob, I ain't got time to reason with this guy, tase him, or call for backup. Just shoot him so we can go grab a bite. Make sure not to hit his leg or some other non lethal area. - Vizeris, on 06/04/2009, -5/+8yeah, pretty clear cut. I hope
- inactive, on 06/05/2009, -1/+3So the guy did actually cut his wrists?
Is it possible that he didn't acknowledge the police yelling at him from the trauma and shock of a main artery being cut?
I would have advocated a taser, or a well placed shot that does not kill the guy.
The lack of compassion for the guy in question is rather disturbing to me, the person clearly being distraught enough to take his own life and getting shot in the chest by police who seemed to decide on a whim that Knife=Threat=Shoot to kill.
I am shocked at the lack of humanity, or so called humanity, the police are there to protect and serve, they should do everything in their power to keep people safe, and while that does not have to include endangering their own lives, it is acceptable for all the other emergency services (firemen risk their lives everyday, ambulance crews too)
The police force seem to have gotten lazy, procedure needs to be replaced with bravery and courage in the face of danger, i think its unacceptable to simply deal with a disobedient guy by killing him. -
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