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Man Kills City Council After Receiving 150 Tickets
news.yahoo.com — Gunman declares, "The truth will come out in the end," in his suicide note. He killed one police officer and 5 city council members. After 150 tickets against his business he felt enough was enough (Can you believe this picture? Couldn't they have found something angry. He does not look like a killer here.)
PMG2007- 1362 diggs
- digg it
- PMG2007, on 02/09/2008, -52/+122These deaths are tragic, and it was obviously the wrong way of handling the situation. But 150 tickets, that is provoking someone. I have been mad after a couple, but 150?
- Oculus, on 02/09/2008, -8/+50FTA: "Franklin McCallie, a longtime friend of Thornton's, said Thornton once told him that the city would drop the fines, which totaled in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if he "would just follow the law."
"In our long talks, I begged him to do this," McCallie said in an e-mail to the AP on Friday. "But Cookie said it was a matter of principle with him and that he wanted to sue the city for millions of dollars."- Greengoo, on 02/09/2008, -4/+46Apparently, you CAN fight city hall...
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -5/+18People should remember when screwing others how effective this is.
- EditorResponse, on 02/09/2008, -21/+7Obviously this guy had a screw loose. He was guilty of parking heavy equipment on the street and didn't obey the laws of the local town...he needed a place to park his vehicles off the street....what an *****.
The city had ticketed Thornton's demolition and asphalt business, Cookco Construction, for parking his commercial vehicles in the neighborhood, said Ron Hodges, a friend who lives in the community. The tickets were "eating at him," Hodges said.
"He felt that as a black contractor he was being singled out," said Hodges, who is black. "I guess he thought mentally he had no more recourse. That's not an excuse."
Franklin McCallie, a longtime friend of Thornton's, said Thornton once told him that the city would drop the fines, which totaled in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if he "would just follow the law."
- novask, on 02/09/2008, -7/+10He was just keeping it real.
- Chompy, on 02/09/2008, -1/+10unfortunately for Cookie, this was one of those times when keeping it real goes wrong.
- crichton101, on 02/09/2008, -7/+4Oh yeah, he kept it real alright, real stupid that is.
- digitalhair, on 02/09/2008, -5/+4keep your racist ***** to yourself. your comment confirms this guy's suspicions about people treating him dismissivly based on personal differences and not his constitutional rights.
- Chompy, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2Google Chapelle Show + "keeping it real".
- lotsa1s, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1Dugg down for lack of knowledge of pop culture references.
- Greengoo, on 02/09/2008, -4/+46Apparently, you CAN fight city hall...
- vault, on 02/09/2008, -16/+84They were parking tickets for his business's trucks, which as the article says the city was willing to drop if he'd stop leaving them in the neighborhood. He was just pissed he didn't get special treatment.
- lhughey, on 02/09/2008, -21/+24I could be wrong, but it sounds like they picked on him and probably did something out of line. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer to drop all the tickets.
Its easy to give the appearance of taking the high road and "just dropping it" after you've done something wrong. Imagine if i were to sucker punch you a couple of times, then say "im sorry, lets forget it".
However, it doesnt justify killing them. Sometimes people suck.- jjmckay, on 02/09/2008, -2/+8You were dug down but I think you make a good point.
- Nevarius, on 02/09/2008, -0/+4There may be more to this story than what is being told. The small town in which i grew up in had a city council that pulled similar ***** to shut down businesses it had issues with (among other things).
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -9/+12Streets are public property. Thats what cookies business paid all those dang taxes for.
- georgetds, on 02/09/2008, -5/+14Streets are public property. Why should there rest of the neighborhood put up with their tax money going to free parking for some one who doesn't want to play fair?
- digitalhair, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2how does tax money go to free public parking? Imagine being taxed by the local government as an individual in the amount of say 150 times (approx. $50) plus late fees, court fees, lawyer fees, loss of business, and loss of civil liberties when any officer could have called him on the phone prior to issuing so many tickets and said "hey man, do you know how much this could cost you if you don't have your employees move those trucks? I don't want you to get into trouble so let me help you move some of them to this other side-street or this place owned by the city temporarily." Your idea of fairness involves building fortresses in communities at taxpayer expense in order to justify rounding up those who live on the outside because they're not paying the taxes you charged them for the costs of having to build your fortress and staff people to protect it - revenue you WOULD have used to pay your own taxes like the GOOD citizen you have always been if it were not for some of these deadbeat troublemaking freeloaders on the other side. Bottom line: it would have cost taxpayers much less had none of this happened. Unfortunately, it will only lead to justification for more police and more disputes, more taxes.
- EditorResponse, on 02/09/2008, -6/+12I used to work in construction and there are laws against parking heavy equipment vehicles nearly EVERYWHERE....that is why he needed to buy a lot and get the materials off the street. He was a poor businessman.
- georgetds, on 02/09/2008, -5/+14Streets are public property. Why should there rest of the neighborhood put up with their tax money going to free parking for some one who doesn't want to play fair?
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/09/2008, -6/+11Guess he thought he deserved an affirmative action exception for parking.
- lhughey, on 02/09/2008, -21/+24I could be wrong, but it sounds like they picked on him and probably did something out of line. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer to drop all the tickets.
- PMG2007, on 02/09/2008, -42/+8Oculus you are a detailed reader. I still think that 150 tickets is near impossible to obtain w/o someone trying to provoke you. I park like I own the place every where I go and the other repercussion I had was a fight with a Walmart greeter
- Aeaus, on 02/09/2008, -8/+10No, he just read the whole ***** article.
- MrDiggDugg, on 02/09/2008, -2/+15I love people like you. I like especially to park up next to you as close as I can, so that you can't open your door. I'm usually in the right too, as folks like you tend to take up 1.5 parking spots. So I fit my little car in the half spot next to you... and take down your license plate in case you decide to do something childish like damage my car.
- Chompy, on 02/09/2008, -6/+2Hell I key double parkers' vehicles if I know I can get away with.
- thedaylights, on 02/09/2008, -16/+13Very sad story. It looks like this was a conflict of personalities, and that he was probably provoked. Not that that is any excuse for his actions. It's just sad that people can't open their hearts for someone once in a while.
- Vodka2389, on 02/09/2008, -9/+8If by "conflict of personalities" you mean ones were obeying the law and doing their job, and the other was a psychopathic maniac, then yes, it was.
- thedaylights, on 02/09/2008, -5/+12150 parking tickets??? And they'd just forgive them all if he stepped in line? Sounds like they were trying to strongarm him.
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/09/2008, -5/+3Oh god, shut up with your BS "it's just sad that people can't open their hearts for someone". When you make exceptions to the law, the law has no meaning anymore.
- dirtymcgrit, on 02/09/2008, -17/+20150 tickets, this man should have been in jail after about 50 maybe? 75? 100? to say they were provoking him is rediculous, HE was provoking THEM.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -5/+8Provoking them to do what exactly?
They're government employees. They don't give a ***** who parks where on public property unless they can find a way to make money off it to expand their power base.- Chompy, on 02/09/2008, -4/+7Yes, obviously Cookie uncovered their plot to expand their powerbase and take over the world.. with parking tickets.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5Your" tinfoil hat" paintbrush wore out with that stroke. More money from tickets translates into more ways they can build up their name, translates into a higher position somewhere down the road after they say they reduced crime by 5%.
The logic isn't that hard to follow, unless you're a ***** moron - which you are.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5Your" tinfoil hat" paintbrush wore out with that stroke. More money from tickets translates into more ways they can build up their name, translates into a higher position somewhere down the road after they say they reduced crime by 5%.
- Chompy, on 02/09/2008, -4/+7Yes, obviously Cookie uncovered their plot to expand their powerbase and take over the world.. with parking tickets.
- digitalhair, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3i absolutely agree. If they wanted him to conform to the law, they could have been much more competent about providing a solution. most places start "booting" vehicles before the fines get way out of hand. Sounds to me like they egotistically piled the fines on him with a group-think mentality and then asked him to plead "mercy!" like in the final scene of braveheart - although I don't wish to imply bravery - where William Wallace is forced to trade his human dignity in order to spare him from cruel and unusual punishment. It's a classical case of power abuse. You see it in the workplace all the time. It shouldn't have come to this... management 101.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -5/+8Provoking them to do what exactly?
- signal15, on 02/09/2008, -3/+12They don't mention if the law was in place before his business existed. I know I'd be really pissed off if I purchased land to start a business and a few years down the road the city says I can't park my company vehicles there because they are an eyesore.
Maybe this is what happened? - AgmLauncher, on 02/09/2008, -12/+4Yeh, the white people who ran the city were intentionally provoking him because he was black.
- CiXeL, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1that happens in some cities in the country. i didnt believe it until i moved to south florida from california. there is a reason many of the latin americans in miami want hillary president over obama. theyre literally racist.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1"Couldn't they have found something angry. He does not look like a killer here."
Perhaps the OP needs to take a closer look. Closer. CLOSER. He is black. (that's at least worth 20 diggs because racism is cool)
- Nerfdude, on 02/09/2008, -4/+13maybe after the first couple tickets he should have realized that he wasn't going to get away with illegal parking and actually filed the proper paperwork. i do not see how anybody can even come close to justifying that clown. he killed three innocent civilians. he killed two police officers doing their jobs. he is a murderer, not a martyr. get it right.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5"i do not see how anybody can even come close to justifying that clown."
The anti-government people are making a miscalculation in thinking this is somebody to defend. This is not about the big evil government overlord strong-arming its poor, innocent law abiding citizens. This is about a dick with personal issues who refused to do what he should have done. Simple as that.
This all probably started off innocently enough, but I bet some city person was a dick to him somewhere along the line, and he used that as justification for his crusade. And then just to not give in to that one dick, he racked up all these other tickets and "on principle" refused to listen to anybody, even when they offered him a way out.
This should be a lesson to us all that you can't let one person who is a dick to you ruin your whole day. Just ignore them and move on... pay your dues and spend your life living instead of being angry. Oh, and if you read to this point: you are a ***** douche bag *****. Have a nice day.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5"i do not see how anybody can even come close to justifying that clown."
- ubuwalker31, on 02/09/2008, -2/+8Before commenting on this tragic incident, I think everyone should go to the St. Louis Post Dispatch webpage to get some more insight into what happened. Here are some links:
6 dead in shooting rampage at Kirkwood City Council
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/ ...
Shooting reactions reveal racial divide
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/ ...
The unspoken problem is that some poorly educated African-Americans don't understand the harsh legal and regulatory environment that we live in, and rely on their own (and their friends) conceptions of what the law is, rather than consulting an attorney. I know of people who have handed down houses for generations, only to lose it because no one realized that they had to sign title over in order to transfer the property, and someone took advantage of the situation by quitclaiming the title to someone else for loads of cash, with no recourse left to the wronged family who was living there.
Part of the problem is that some people in the african-american community think he was justified in his rage. His brother said the following on TV: "This was an act of war by my brother. He had people that he was in battle with." Which makes sense when you realize that his brother killed someone in prison.- dema, on 02/09/2008, -6/+6>Which makes sense when you realize that his brother killed someone in prison
It makes sense because it makes sense. Now source the statement about his brother killing someone in prison.
You comment is so thick with racism it's nauseating.- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5It may have been un-PC, or a little racist, but there were a few interesting points in it. I don't think it was intended to be an attack on "African-Americans."
You have to admit that there certainly is a disconnect with certain groups, be they black or latinos or muslims, and certain other parts of our society. e.g. blacks & cops, muslims & the Christian Man, latinos & silly string. Refusing to admit that things are a certain way because you feel it is un-PC is refusing to be logical. - ubuwalker31, on 02/13/2008, -0/+1The source for the comment was in the linked st.louis post dispatch article. I misspoke though, he didnt kill someone in prison, he went to prison because he killed someone.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5It may have been un-PC, or a little racist, but there were a few interesting points in it. I don't think it was intended to be an attack on "African-Americans."
- dema, on 02/09/2008, -6/+6>Which makes sense when you realize that his brother killed someone in prison
- Himself, on 02/10/2008, -0/+1how exactly are they tragic?
- Oculus, on 02/09/2008, -8/+50FTA: "Franklin McCallie, a longtime friend of Thornton's, said Thornton once told him that the city would drop the fines, which totaled in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if he "would just follow the law."
- BubblyJAL, on 02/09/2008, -35/+20All I can say is that's Sad. That sure was a lot of tickets. Maybe they were out to get him or something.
- Eldorian, on 02/09/2008, -4/+12RTFA
- ufee, on 02/09/2008, -6/+11I'm sorry, but regardless of how many tickets this guy got, I cannot even remotely sympathize with him. Perhaps if you read the article more thoroughly, you wouldn't be trying.
- altrego99, on 02/09/2008, -4/+2Damn right. The sons of bitches got what they deserved. Now let me forewarn those who are going to serve tickets to me, don't mess with me because I'm going to be the next even though I also don't look like the killer type!
- scamerica, on 02/09/2008, -43/+65150 ! One can't argued that he wasn't a patient man
- Iconoclast25, on 02/09/2008, -8/+54RTFA - the city offered to drop them *ALL* if he would simply stop violating the law under which they were issued. This is the MO version of Carl Drega . . . it's always a fine line between the 1st Amendment and disaster when dealing with these guys.
- digitalhair, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3...but only if he cried mercy would they give him a more humane punishment...
- Beveridge89, on 02/09/2008, -12/+29Yeah, most people would only wait, what, a few dozen tickets before murdering six people. He wasn't patient, he was a violent maniac.
- progrockguy, on 02/09/2008, -14/+9What kind of "violent manic" waits and finally decides, after 150 tickets, "You know, they crossed the line, I've had enough?"
A "violent manic" would've retaliated for just the threat of a ticket.- bphicke, on 02/09/2008, -3/+8progrockguy, there are different kinds of retaliation. The fact that the retaliation he chose included killing 6 people makes him a "violent maniac"
- pixelbender, on 02/09/2008, -8/+3He killed 5 people.
- Onyxblaze, on 02/09/2008, -4/+55 council members and a police officer. I count six. Oh, and you are a ***** idiot for correcting someone and being wrong yourself.
- DFrag, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4Let me get this straight. You're a violent maniac if you kill six people butt our president can order the deaths of thousands of Americans as revenge for the death of thousand of Americans and that makes you a patriot. Yeah, right.
- Iconoclast25, on 02/09/2008, -7/+5Ya didn't RTFA, did ya? He lost a law suit and apparently figured he was out of options. Why he couldn't simply have obeyed the law in the first place is beyond me - maybe he was born with a palestinian mind (i.e., unable to see logic, unable to pursue collaborative solutions)? Who knows? Probably no one, ever, but if the law says ya can't park commercial vehicles on a city street, then ya might pick up a clue after the 2nd or 3rd ticket . . . ya think?
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5Agreed. They government was stalking this law abiding tax payer. When the government has no laws it has to follow, this is what you get.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2The biggest myth is that "the government" is some external entity. These were regular citizens who got killed, not some evil entities. Six regular working-class American families are now one short.
I don't even have to look into the specifics of the law under which he was fined...they offered to release him of all fines if he would just obey the law that the people of his city agreed upon by a) voting for it or b) voting for councilmen who voted for it.
- FatLoser, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2The biggest myth is that "the government" is some external entity. These were regular citizens who got killed, not some evil entities. Six regular working-class American families are now one short.
- digginamish, on 02/09/2008, -3/+4Sorry, but I would say that killing 6 people qualifies him for "violent maniac," or do have a different standard?
And to the original post: what does a killer look like? I don't believe anyone has found a correlation between facial features and a propensity for violence.- buckrogers1965, on 02/09/2008, -0/+5Naw, a violent maniac kills everyone he can find for no good reason. This guy was an effective assassin.
- Tippis, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2<Martin Blank>
Psychopaths kill for no reason -- I kill for money... wait, that didn't come out right.
</Martin Blank>
- Tippis, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2<Martin Blank>
- buckrogers1965, on 02/09/2008, -0/+5Naw, a violent maniac kills everyone he can find for no good reason. This guy was an effective assassin.
- bphicke, on 02/09/2008, -3/+8progrockguy, there are different kinds of retaliation. The fact that the retaliation he chose included killing 6 people makes him a "violent maniac"
- bubut, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3Stop! Grammar Time! *dances*
- mwmccullough, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1And the pastor preaching "He was a good man who played the bad man, when the burner was in his hand."
-Biggy Smalls
- Iconoclast25, on 02/09/2008, -8/+54RTFA - the city offered to drop them *ALL* if he would simply stop violating the law under which they were issued. This is the MO version of Carl Drega . . . it's always a fine line between the 1st Amendment and disaster when dealing with these guys.
- chabs39, on 02/09/2008, -26/+171At everyone who posted above me, are you all idiots? Did you even read the article? It said right in the article that he continued parking there even after they told him he couldn't. He deserved the tickets he got. They even offered to void the tickets if he would just stop doing it and he didn't.
- EvilOtto, on 02/09/2008, -25/+12Dude probably ran his business from his home like most small time contractors. I know I wouldn't be pleased if I was being ticketed for parking my vehicles at my my house.
- Niightwitch, on 02/09/2008, -3/+17RTFA
- dagnome1984, on 02/09/2008, -6/+1"frankly it is SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED of him." It's public property everyone should be able to use it. Hell I bet his business paid in taxes what you couldn't in 15 lifetimes. Shut up
- TacitusBen, on 02/09/2008, -7/+23I'm a Saint Louis resident, and I grew up and live just a few miles from where this took place. I don't know much about the specifics, but I've heard that the shooter had been one of many different contractors who have been harassed and bullied by the Kirkwood government for years. Apparently, he snapped. This tragedy reminds me of a lot of school shootings, but on an adult level.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -9/+4Bullied by making him follow the same laws that everyone else has to?
- Jashobeam5, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2Try getting your property seized via imminent domain and see how you like the "same laws" as everyone else. Yes, this man was a murderer, there is no excuse for it. His reasoning was probably that the local gov't was harrassing him and trying to ruin a business he had worked so hard to build up. It was still wrong what he did, and no one should be saying he was reacting as most human beings would given the situation.
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6Harassed in what way?? It just sounds like ***** without specifics. Was the guy a fellow african american with a conspiracy theory against whites?
- Nerfdude, on 02/09/2008, -6/+10i'm also a saint louis resident, kirkwood is about five miles away from my house. kirkwood is a great little community, and it's sad that this would happen there or anywhere.
but the man was given tickets for not obeying the law. over and over. there are other ways to express your grievances. it's nice that he's dead.- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -0/+4"there are other ways to express your grievances"
You might actually believe this until you try it. The other "ways", unfortunately, don't work because the politicians ignore you. What else could he have done, it's him against a group of power hungry bureaucrats whom have no interest in his livelihood. Just because something is "the law" doesn't mean it's "right".- Nerfdude, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3murder is "against the law" and is definitely not "right".
- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -0/+4"there are other ways to express your grievances"
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -9/+4Bullied by making him follow the same laws that everyone else has to?
- signal15, on 02/09/2008, -3/+7Was his business there before the neighborhood was built up and the neighbors started complaining? They are light on details.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -4/+3Yeah...because that would make the shooting justifiable.
- mozert, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2... hiding the truth makes the shooting justifiable.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Just because you donpt LIKE the truth does not make it hidden.
- crichton101, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2@ both Bingobongony & Mozert
Nothing makes murdering people justifiable, unless you're an uneducated nit wit that is. This wasn't in self defense or in the defense of others, this was cold blooded murder, and that is never justifiable. It's too bad that the shooter was too much of a coward to face the consequences of his actions.
- mozert, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2... hiding the truth makes the shooting justifiable.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -4/+3Yeah...because that would make the shooting justifiable.
- EvilOtto, on 02/09/2008, -25/+12Dude probably ran his business from his home like most small time contractors. I know I wouldn't be pleased if I was being ticketed for parking my vehicles at my my house.
- PMG2007, on 02/09/2008, -22/+14I read the article again and do not know what you are talking about. I still hold that 150 tickets is unreal! I would digg this story again if I could!
- digitalhair, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1agreed. why do people want to dogmatically couple the simple acknowledgment that 150 tickets is evidence of wrongdoing by the local government with the idea that doing so somehow means that we think this man was justified in killing people in retaliation? It's like we're not supporting the troops by thinking "how did it go so far?" when we see 150 tickets.
- protogenxl, on 02/09/2008, -0/+27Reminds me of this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
- W00DR0W, on 02/09/2008, -4/+1I was going to post a youtube of that but they took it down.
- lazyfisherman, on 02/09/2008, -1/+10Call him what you want but what Heemeyer did was pretty amazing.
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3Heemeyer didn't kill anyone, except himself.
- sfacets, on 02/09/2008, -35/+25150 Tickets? Either the guy was really careless or these people were picking on him. Don't want this to happen? top milking us for cash, and for goodness sake make more parking places!
- Eldorian, on 02/09/2008, -7/+22RTFA
- TheColonel, on 02/09/2008, -4/+13This wasn't parking a car, this was a consrtuction vehichle or truck. Parked in a residential area. No doubt, at or near his home most likely. You like being woken at 4am by a truck coming and going? They're not quiet vehicles you know, so laws to stop them being kept in residential areas are there for a reason.
- TheMongo, on 02/09/2008, -4/+9This ***** gets Dugg? What the hell is happening?
"Don't want this to happen? [S]top milking us for cash, and for goodness sake make more parking places!"
Ignoring the fact that you're actually condoning murder for parking, how is this comment even remotely helpful? Maybe he should have just not parked in a place where he wasn't allowed to. I don't know if you're a troll or not (I'm guessing you are), but this kind of useless waste is the reason I don't hang around Digg anymore. - captric, on 02/09/2008, -2/+1Try reading the article before you comment.
- BigBallistix, on 02/09/2008, -31/+5"Police said he first fired with a handgun he brought, then used one of the slain officer's pistols to continue the rampage."
Someone knows the ins-and-outs of FPS', best way to kill everyone in Counter-Strike. Lol at comment about photo.- moskaudancer, on 02/09/2008, -3/+2To quote Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you."
- InspectorGadget, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3I would have dugg you up. but we buried him.
- l2OI3, on 02/09/2008, -4/+1That's a misquote by the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you
- moskaudancer, on 02/09/2008, -3/+2To quote Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you."
- DeskFlyer, on 02/09/2008, -29/+63Apparently the truth is that he was a selfish ***** who is currently rotting in hell for taking the lives of 5 innocent people.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -11/+3Can't you just wait until we have all the facts?
- MasterGrief, on 02/09/2008, -2/+8No.
- klick37, on 02/09/2008, -2/+6What facts are missing...?
- Jashobeam5, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1The man's mental history profile.
The actions of the governing body toward other businesses in the area.
Why the news portrayed him as a raving lunatic without any grievance before they found out about the 150 tickets.
The man's educational background.
More info about the lawsuit he just lost including documents he filed, if he was his own representation, etc. Yep, he was still wrong.
Even if they were out to destroy his business, even if he should have won the court case, even if he had a history of mental illness, he was wrong to murder them.
- Jashobeam5, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1The man's mental history profile.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5What facts? The guy killed 5 innocent people because he was pissed because over parking tickets that the courts and even his own family say he deserved. Five people are dead because of him. Sounds like the ones who are dead weren't even the ones he was trying to kill- he was after the mayor. He killed 5 people for no reason, and he had no right to do that. Those are the facts.
- ElCazador, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3*6* people.
- ratsg, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2no, 5 people and a cop.
- ElCazador, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3*6* people.
- Protonz, on 02/09/2008, -17/+4Innocent until proven guilty. How come you only apply it to the bureaucrats?
I'm not taking sides, there are far worse things happening in the world.- klick37, on 02/09/2008, -1/+12He shot and killed five people before the police could gun him down.. If he's not guilty, they're doing something wrong.
- Onyxblaze, on 02/09/2008, -3/+136. Cops count too.
- jkarhu24, on 02/09/2008, -7/+3No they don't. They are subhuman scum.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -10/+7No one here is innocent.
That's not to say he didn't respond with excessive force but then they're the government. What else do the listen to?- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3Hear Hear
- bandomac, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3These "innocent" bureaucrats have no problem applying force if you don't comply with their "requests" for money, and total compliance. He just turned the tables on 'em. Of course initiation of force is never justified. Why should anyone tell a business owner he can't park his vehicle in a "public" area. This is a textbook example of the tragedy of the commons. When everyone owns a resource (the streets) that really means the government own it, and we have no real say in its use. He felt that his taxes warranted his say in how the roads were used, and when they disagreed with him, they initiated force by fining him. He returned the favor. Leave people alone, and they will leave you alone. Push people to far in obeying your edicts, and this results. It isn't right, but neither is they way governments trample on our rights.
- bsmang, on 02/09/2008, -4/+3lol.. rotting in hell.. gimme a break.
- dema, on 02/09/2008, -6/+3No one is innocent. If you really think there is a Hell, God obviously had a plan for those five people to die for various reasons.
- sporg, on 02/09/2008, -9/+5They ***** with the wrong man and they got OWNED. Bleeding heart sissies get dugg up for acting like they give a *****.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -11/+3Can't you just wait until we have all the facts?
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -4/+85I saw the killer's brother being interviewed by a news reporter today, and the guy actually repeatedly denied that his brother (the killer) had done anything wrong. He wasn't denying his brother killed them - just denying it was wrong. He likened it to "going to war". It was quite amazing.
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -1/+14There's a video here: http://www.foxreno.com/video/15251203/index.html ... and this isn't the same one I saw earlier on TV - that one had a male interviewer, but he said more or less the same thing.
- moskaudancer, on 02/09/2008, -0/+10Hearing him say that so calmly actually gave me chills.
- Campog, on 02/09/2008, -4/+26Of course he did nothing wrong. He was black and they were white. Obviously blatant racism. It wasn't that he was persistent in breaking the law, they were just out to get him.
/Sarcasm- CiXeL, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2its funny you think its a joke. i am a white guy in south florida and see the racism black people receive by the latins down here. in certain areas of the country, there ARE people out to get them for being black. its sickening. its so stupid and primitive. i think alot of it stems from the fact that many of the people who discriminate have never met successful sophisticated middle class blacks so they automatically assume everyone every black person is a uneducated welfare sucking baby machine. the concept of a barak obama or will smith is alien to them. its sad.
- lgfaphile, on 02/09/2008, -2/+9I saw the same or a similar interview...both brothers seem like whackos.
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -9/+7He was going to war, and like william wallace he scream FREEDOM as he was gunned down the by the gestapo thugs who murdered this freedom fighter!
- callmejordy265, on 02/09/2008, -3/+10Brothers are brothers.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -10/+7He was going to war. His justification for what he did is not much worse than our own for killing people in Iraq. Why is it people like you can only rationalize killing others when someone you elected says it's OK?
You really are a hypocritical scumbag.- lexmichaels, on 02/09/2008, -3/+6You're sticking up for Cookie on this one?
You really are a moron.- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2If I'm a moron, I'm loathe to think of what you are for putting words in my mouth.
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -3/+1"Why is it people like you can only rationalize killing others when someone you elected says it's OK?"
There are cases where I can rationalize killing (self-defense against an aggressor, for example), but it never depends on an elected official approving. So it would be you putting words in my mouth, and you who is a hypocritical scumbag.
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -3/+1"Why is it people like you can only rationalize killing others when someone you elected says it's OK?"
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2If I'm a moron, I'm loathe to think of what you are for putting words in my mouth.
- sporg, on 02/09/2008, -3/+4Because television told them it was right.
- lexmichaels, on 02/09/2008, -3/+6You're sticking up for Cookie on this one?
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -1/+14There's a video here: http://www.foxreno.com/video/15251203/index.html ... and this isn't the same one I saw earlier on TV - that one had a male interviewer, but he said more or less the same thing.
- tehbored, on 02/09/2008, -25/+19The most terrible thing of all is that this could have been avoided through better communication.
- ehalasey, on 02/09/2008, -6/+32How much better does, "we'll waive all the fines if you obey the law from now on," get in terms of communication? This guy had a history of being thrown out of city council meetings for being disruptive and verbally abusive. The mere fact that the city council was willing to back down in such a civil manner and still his response was a violent one shows that no amount of good communication was going to solve the problem. The guy was a powder keg. End of story.
- Zarokima, on 02/09/2008, -5/+6I think tehbored meant better communication on the guy's end, not the city's, for the reasons you listed.
- siszam, on 02/09/2008, -8/+8He lost a federal free-speech lawsuit. Seems like he was bullied and oppressed at every turn. Well, they hear him loud and clear now don't they?
- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -1/+7Just because he lost a free-speech lawsuit doesn't mean he was bullied or oppressed. Sounds to me like he just didn't want to follow the same rules everyone else follows.
- onlyclave, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6Yeah the communication that was never presented was "Mr. Thornton, the city has revoked your business license for 150 parking violations that have not been paid" and then hauled off his vehicles for being abandoned on public property. Some people do a ***** job of picking their battles. This guy was not being oppressed, he was being an ***** and sometimes those people just need some tough love.
- sonnybobiche, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2Psychiatric hospital? maybe. Communication? Not so much.
- ehalasey, on 02/09/2008, -6/+32How much better does, "we'll waive all the fines if you obey the law from now on," get in terms of communication? This guy had a history of being thrown out of city council meetings for being disruptive and verbally abusive. The mere fact that the city council was willing to back down in such a civil manner and still his response was a violent one shows that no amount of good communication was going to solve the problem. The guy was a powder keg. End of story.
- macjaeh, on 02/09/2008, -20/+37Took the cowardly way out. Deal with your problems, don't cause more.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -14/+3Racionalize that please
- s0ny, on 02/09/2008, -2/+7Rationalize
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -4/+2I mean rationalize.
- ElCazador, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2Rationalize WHAT?
Is there something about "Deal with your problems, don't cause more" not sound reasonable to you?- CiXeL, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2you assume all places people can live are run by rational people.
- ElCazador, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2Rationalize WHAT?
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -9/+11He did. Government deals with problems by pointing a gun at them and threatening them.
The only response to that kind of naked aggression is more naked aggression.- Rhonwyn, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3How can you possibly equate the issuing of tickets, and offering to void ALL of them, if he would just follow the law, to pointing a gun at someone?
- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4because it all boils down to the law, he thinks it's wrong and the bureaucrats think it's right. The only way the bureaucrats can make him follow the law is via force. The way force is applied by the government is stealing your property and sending in teams of paramilitary thugs to arrest you (and possibly kill you).
Step out of line and see how quickly "the force" is applied to you...
- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4because it all boils down to the law, he thinks it's wrong and the bureaucrats think it's right. The only way the bureaucrats can make him follow the law is via force. The way force is applied by the government is stealing your property and sending in teams of paramilitary thugs to arrest you (and possibly kill you).
- Rhonwyn, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3How can you possibly equate the issuing of tickets, and offering to void ALL of them, if he would just follow the law, to pointing a gun at someone?
- phenry50BMG, on 02/09/2008, -9/+6Took the cowardly way out? No, he didn't post on digg, like you. So it's now cowardly to die for what you believe in?
- Walmac, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4It's not cowardly to die for what you believe in. It's cowardly to take the lives of the innocent with you for your own idiotic belief of self righteousness and disagreement with the law.
If you're going to hurt someone because you can't deal with the ramifications of your own actions, the only life you should take is your own.- Jashobeam5, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3That is one of the best comments on this board.
- Walmac, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4It's not cowardly to die for what you believe in. It's cowardly to take the lives of the innocent with you for your own idiotic belief of self righteousness and disagreement with the law.
- jjmckay, on 02/09/2008, -4/+1Not cowardly but certainly not one to bring good karma. Not saying the City Council had good karma either. I'm not too surprised at this level of insanity from both sides of this dispute turned deadly.
- chicagobiker, on 02/09/2008, -5/+3I don't think you know what the phrase means. "The cowardly way out" refers to suicide. This digg submission title is wrong if you read the article. The man went to war against the council and was killed in battle by police.
- kauthon, on 02/09/2008, -5/+3You've never been a black man. Black people take a 1000 little slights over the course of their life. Sometimes it just builds up.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -14/+3Racionalize that please
- shadowspawn, on 02/09/2008, -36/+5Now that the smokes gone
And the air is all clear
Those who were right there
Got a new kind of fear
You'd fight and you were right
But they were just too strong
They'd stick it in your face
And let you smell what they consider wrong
Thats why I say hey man nice, nice shot
What a good shot man- nepawoods, on 02/09/2008, -3/+12don't quit your day job
- dartmanx, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6Budd Dwyer killed himself.
Cookie Thornton took out several others.
Apples and Oranges. - Roryking, on 02/09/2008, -5/+4A ***** song by a ***** band. too bad every counter-strike server makes you listen to it when you join
- Ganja420, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2boooooo
- whatthefu, on 02/09/2008, -16/+9That's what happens when a person snaps.
- MasterPlayer, on 02/09/2008, -5/+10Thank you Captain for that insightful observation.
- TheKage, on 02/09/2008, -4/+7Uh no... I sometimes "snap", but I don't go around killing people.
- Protonz, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5Well then you didn't really 'snap' then now did you?
- Jashobeam5, on 02/10/2008, -0/+1"Snap" does not always mean violence toward others. Some people "snap" and start believing aliens are trying to steal their brain waves. They loose touch with reality, but are not a danger to society. Most violent peole aren't those who "snap," but rather those who hate. What I'm shocked to see a lack of on this board is a discussion of how much this killer hated those he killed. He must have seethed with rage against them. Hate leads to killing more than any mental illness. And unlike mental illness, hate is a choice.
- Protonz, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5Well then you didn't really 'snap' then now did you?
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2This is what happens when a schizophrenic government descends into tyrrany.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -26/+7He doesn't look like an insane person, maybe they did something to deserve it.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -12/+4BURRY ME ALL YOU WANT A PERSON DOESN'T GO CRAZY JUST LIKE THAT AND YOU KNOW IT!
- pizzas, on 02/09/2008, -2/+5dude ill ***** kill you
- Vodka2389, on 02/09/2008, -2/+6You look like a 5 year old.
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -5/+1Thanks.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -2/+4>>PERSON DOESN'T GO CRAZY JUST LIKE THAT
Uhhhh....apparently they do. This guy shot 6 people over parking tickets. That's crazy.- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1And they would have taken away his freedom and destroyed his livelihood over those very same parking tickets. Which is crazier?
- dagnome1984, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3I bet they took his business license away. I bet there is more to it than just 150 parking tickets.
- Jashobeam5, on 02/10/2008, -0/+1People are confusing hate with insanity. Most insane people are harmless. Hatred is what is dangerous.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1And they would have taken away his freedom and destroyed his livelihood over those very same parking tickets. Which is crazier?
- jm4847, on 02/09/2008, -12/+4BURRY ME ALL YOU WANT A PERSON DOESN'T GO CRAZY JUST LIKE THAT AND YOU KNOW IT!
- aceakm, on 02/09/2008, -15/+3He played alot of Grand Theft Auto.
- SamPollock, on 02/09/2008, -15/+5He was bound to do it some time
- RSS14, on 02/09/2008, -9/+8Looks can be deceiving.
- noseeme, on 02/09/2008, -16/+1In b4 "An Hero" jokes.
- MasterGrief, on 02/09/2008, -0/+3What?
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -11/+4This happened very near to me....
- scojerroc, on 02/09/2008, -2/+11and?
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -1/+9wtf digg, take out the rest of my comment? Fix the damn comment system already.
"This happened very near to me....less than 20 minutes away.
This city also dealt with another office shot down in cold blood in the line of duty within the last 2 years and just wrapped up a lengthy trial. This has only brought the city together more with hundreds of people gathering outside city hall tonight for a prayer vigil."
- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -19/+9It's a racial issue. The Riverfront Times has a blog with quotes from a couple guys at the meeting.
"“He was a good man. The only problem was he thought he could survive in America against racist politics. And what we have here is an example of what will happen as long as people choose color over people,” said Gordon. “I don’t condone murder, but I tell you now, as long as there is separatism and unequal politics you’ll see more of this. He did what any red-blooded American would do. If you go to Iraq and kill people that this government says is an enemy, then you’re a hero. But if you’re fighting in this country for the rights you are deserved and you’ve been told you are owed, then you are an insurgent. I say he is a hero.”"
And: "“He told me he wanted to thank me for things I’m doing in the neighborhood,” recalled Moore. “He told me he was going to the council meeting last night. I was going to join him, but then I remembered I had to watch my son. If I’d had gone with him to the meeting, I would have stopped Cookie from doing what he did. But just by trying to stop him -- in the confusion -- I believe I would have been shot [by police], too, because black people in this community don’t go to the city council meetings.”"
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/02/cha ...- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -6/+2Sorry. Not the meeting where the shooting took place, but a neighborhood meeting held tonight.
- InspectorGadget, on 02/09/2008, -4/+18So if a psychopath pretends white people are out to get him, his crimes are excused because he's a victim of "racism"?
- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -4/+6Er, no...I don't agree with those comments at all. I was trying to give some perspective on how screwed up the situation is. I think it's pretty despicable to laud someone like that as a hero. According to the Post-Dispatch, the guy giving that speech was applauded. For calling a guy who murdered five people in cold blood a hero.
- Vodka2389, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6You said "It's a racial issue."
- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -4/+4Yes. People from the town are convinced this happened at least partly because he is black and the council members are white. That makes it a racial issue. There's no evidence HE thought it was a racial issue, but he's not around anymore and the people who are going to be making a lot of noise in the next few days think it's a racial issue.
They are applauding him as a hero. Moore said "Kirkwood has gotten rich off the backs of the blacks in Meacham Park... Kirkwood adopted us, for only for the check." from here: http://tinyurl.com/32bu5o
Are you still convinced this ISN'T a racial issue?
- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -4/+4Yes. People from the town are convinced this happened at least partly because he is black and the council members are white. That makes it a racial issue. There's no evidence HE thought it was a racial issue, but he's not around anymore and the people who are going to be making a lot of noise in the next few days think it's a racial issue.
- Vodka2389, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6You said "It's a racial issue."
- garfield226, on 02/09/2008, -4/+6Er, no...I don't agree with those comments at all. I was trying to give some perspective on how screwed up the situation is. I think it's pretty despicable to laud someone like that as a hero. According to the Post-Dispatch, the guy giving that speech was applauded. For calling a guy who murdered five people in cold blood a hero.
- Campog, on 02/09/2008, -3/+8Since when is killing others and then yourself a good way to solve your problems?
- buckrogers1965, on 02/09/2008, -0/+4Nobody seems to care about the tickets anymore.
- Vodka2389, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6So because he claimed that those are racial issues, that makes it true?
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5The river front times is ***** reporting.
Half the newspaper is ads for strip clubs and porn shops.- praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -1/+2And where can I pick this paper up? You know...for fact checking.
- will500, on 02/09/2008, -26/+11Sounds to me like he owned the ***** out of those racist assholes.
- RedSaber, on 02/09/2008, -10/+5Sadly, violence is never the acceptable way out.
However yes, they seemed pretty ***** racists. I'm quite happy I don't live in the states with all those retarded race issues. Just love everyone already. - georgetds, on 02/09/2008, -1/+8I am confused. Is there more then one article or did the one I just read say that the reason for the tickets was racism?
- ReadItAndWeep, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3The only racist in this situation was the black psychopath. In modern day America, blacks are taught to view everything in terms of race and whites are taught that race does not exist. It is almost impossible for whites to be racist in modern day America, and it is almost impossible for blacks not to be.
- Jashobeam5, on 02/10/2008, -1/+2What planet are you living on? You think it's almost impossible for whites to be racist in America? You are clueless. I'm of Irish descent and I hear it from people of all skin tones. I know lots of non racist people with dark skin tones, and more than enough racists with light skin tones. You need to get out more.
- RedSaber, on 02/09/2008, -10/+5Sadly, violence is never the acceptable way out.
- pixelbender, on 02/09/2008, -9/+67I live near Kirkwood, and know many chamber members, etc.
My wife and I were actually a few blocks away when 3 patrol cars (1 state, 2 county) past us from behind on the opposite side of the road. When we approached the intersection that is even closer with Lindbergh (the street this happened on), another 2 county cars came from behind on the opposite side of the road, as 8 patrol cars flew by down Lindbergh (this was all around 7pm). I knew something was going on, and began making calls.
We kept driving as we were headed elsewhere, but I was amazed when patrol cars from municipalities 3 cities away were headed that direction. I literally could not believe what was going on (and though perhaps a train derailed since Amtrak runs right next to where this happened through downtown Kirkwood).
The killer had been known to cause trouble at many council meetings and was thrown out of several and cited for disorderly conduct. In fact, a federal judge recently ruled that his rights WERE NOT violated when thrown out based on past actions.
What a shame, these people were loved, the mayor (who will HOPEFULLY recover and is in critical condition) was a wonderful man. What has our world come to? (And yes the killer's family outrages me talking as if his actions were justified).
If you want more info:
ksdk.com
myfoxstl.com
stltoday.com - PacketScan, on 02/09/2008, -24/+7Here is a guy trying to make a living and they give him ***** about parking his vehicle in the driveway.
Should he buy a ***** car to get to and from somewhere? He went Postal... but in the end it was *****..
He's parking his truck in the driveway of his home. Sounds like the uptight neighbors are to blame as well..
This didn't need to happen.- TheColonel, on 02/09/2008, -5/+11you want a multi-tonne vehicle parked in your neighours driveway? Do you realise that typically running a business like that has them coming and going at all hours, and they are NOT quiet, nor quick to start and leave ..
- buckrogers1965, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3If it is on his land, nobody else should care. Do what you want on your own property, let others do what they will on their property. As long as nothing is coming over onto your property like pollution or waste, mind your own business.
Don't like what a neighbor is doing? Move.
You keep ***** with someone on his property and he is going to kill your ass dead.- TheColonel, on 02/10/2008, -1/+1Frankly, i think you two are stupid.
If a law says don't park trucks over a certain weight/size on residential property, then it is not legal. Simple, plain, fact. By your reasoning I should be able to sleep with your 12 year old daughter, on my property. Grow illegal plants, on my property. Why not fire up my stereo to maximum volume for 96 hours straight, in a row, on my property.. I'm sure you'll agree, the best solution is for you to move. I mean, its on my property I'm doing these things, right? right?
Moron.
- TheColonel, on 02/10/2008, -1/+1Frankly, i think you two are stupid.
- dagnome1984, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2"you want a multi-tonne vehicle parked in your neighours driveway? Do you realise that typically running a business like that has them coming and going at all hours, and they are NOT quiet, nor quick to start and leave .."
It's none of my ***** business what my neighbor does with his own property. You are the type that calls the police if someone looks at your funny. Stop sticking your nose in other people's business.
- buckrogers1965, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3If it is on his land, nobody else should care. Do what you want on your own property, let others do what they will on their property. As long as nothing is coming over onto your property like pollution or waste, mind your own business.
- georgetds, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5"The city had ticketed Thornton's demolition and asphalt business, Cookco Construction, for parking his commercial vehicles in the neighborhood, said Ron Hodges, a friend who lives in the community."
...Found that in the article, just so you know. - 99er, on 02/09/2008, -2/+6You're right- this didn't need to happen. He just should have parked his trucks where they were allowed, like other business do. Given all of that, he also didn't need to murder 6 people over parking tickets. You're right- it didn't need to happen, and he was the one that didn't need to do any of it.
- TheColonel, on 02/09/2008, -5/+11you want a multi-tonne vehicle parked in your neighours driveway? Do you realise that typically running a business like that has them coming and going at all hours, and they are NOT quiet, nor quick to start and leave ..
- mcool119, on 02/09/2008, -4/+29I live near Kirkwood. The man basically walked into a board of aldermen meeting, yelled "all I want is justice," and started shooting.
- Lewand, on 02/09/2008, -25/+7I fell extremely sorry for the family of the police officer. On the other hand, there are 5 less politicians in the world.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5I agree on feeling sorry for the family of the officer, but also for the families of the other 5 as well. I take no joy in innocent people being murdered- politicians or not.
- patientXero, on 02/09/2008, -13/+5C-R-A-Z-Y
- davbmn, on 02/09/2008, -9/+36I live in St. Louis. This guy had a chip on his shoulder. He continued to defy the police and the mayor at every turn just to try and prove a point. He earned every one of those tickets (not all were parking tickets according to his brother on a local inerview) He was very well known in the city and not unlikeable. He just had this axe to grind with city hall. Why he decided this was his only recourse, no one knows. He destroyed 6 families in just a few minutes and there are no good answers. Some have tried to make this a race thing, but no one is buying that. It's just the case of a man who snapped, after everyone involved tried to give him an out.
- Ogopogo, on 02/09/2008, -16/+2This kooky "Cookie" was just another mentally unstable negro like Colin Ferguson. We're fortunate that Cookie was terminated on scene. Else he would've likely tried the same type of 'defense' strategy at trial as did Colin Ferguson. Ref: http://law.jrank.org/pages/3671/Colin-Ferguson-Tri ...
- Lust4Me, on 02/09/2008, -14/+4This reminds me of that church shooting. Some pro-gun folks argued that the woman that stopped the gunman was an example of what happens when average Americans are allowed to carry guns.
I guess the fact this new story involves a guy capping a cop carrying a gun, and then using the cop's gun on more people, doesn't fit that argument so well...everyone seems so quiet on the subject.- fjc8, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5Or the shooter could have brought two guns. Or a bigger magazine. Or another magainze.
Or someone else could have brought a gun and shot the shooter. - tacklebox, on 02/09/2008, -3/+4Cops shouldnt sleep on the job. Problem solved. Back to concealed carry.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2What do you mean 'sleep on the job'?? No reason to believe that any of these officers were sleeping on the job much less doing anything wrong. Easy to talk now, but you can't monday morning quarter back unless you were in the same situation.
- cronian, on 02/09/2008, -4/+4I don't own a gun, but I thought the pro-gun lobby supported the right to own guns so people can do ***** like this. We have courts, and elected governments so disputes can be resolved peaceably. This guy apparently felt that both had failed him. So, he took actions into his own hands. Will the courts and governments become more responsive to people's concerns in response to this?
It may not be pc to say this, but after Columbine certain kids started getting a bit more respect. People started taking seriously that if you bully or harass someone, they have the potential to suddenly go postal you. It is better to resolve things through peaceful means, but unless you are a pacifist, you need to determine where you draw the line. Not all change is peaceful.- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2The murder of six people can bring about no good change. This was not right, and no good can come of it.
- CrypticSkeptic, on 02/09/2008, -0/+6You should think a little harder before you type... Obviously anyone knows that the officers would have a gun and that they should be taken out first.
With concealed carry, you don't know who might have a gun. - lgfaphile, on 02/09/2008, -0/+5Lust4Me: "I guess the fact this new story involves a guy capping a cop carrying a gun, and then using the cop's gun on more people, doesn't fit that argument so well...everyone seems so quiet on the subject".
This is a tragedy, thus the silence. Since you raise the issue though, my guess is this building, being a government office, is a 'gun free zone'. Once our whacko scofflaw got the jump on the complacent police, there was no way to defend against him, except for the city attorney who threw furniture at him and lived. If that person (or anyone other law abiding person in the room) had a firearm, the outcome might well have been different. Don't be so quick to make use of a tragedy for political points. - 99er, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2The woman at the church shootings was an armed security guard (and former police officer). Has nothing to do with others being allowed to carry guns.
- fjc8, on 02/09/2008, -1/+5Or the shooter could have brought two guns. Or a bigger magazine. Or another magainze.
- MforMike, on 02/09/2008, -24/+7I bet he was gonna vote for Obama
*Massive Digg Down Starts NOW*- endustry, on 02/09/2008, -1/+7Missouri already voted last Tuesday.
- gegroff, on 02/09/2008, -13/+13"Couldn't they have found something angry. He does not look like a killer here.)"
Yeah, people that are ***** in the head don't smile for the camera.- OrionBlastar, on 02/12/2008, -0/+1Actually I am more worried about people who smile all of the time, than people who don't smile all of the time. I'll bet he smiled as he kept repeating "Shoot the Mayor!" over and over again according to witnesses that said that is what he said. He also filed a complaint in federal court, but the federal court found in favor of the city of Kirkwood. Not able to get his way in court, he decided to "go to war" with Kirkwood and murdered five people and wounded 2 others. Ask yourself if 150 tickets are worth murdering five people and wounding 2 others as well as killing yourself over?
- hopemeanstruth, on 02/09/2008, -16/+1This kind of reminds me of this Obama advertisement I saw that went negative...Let me know if you agree?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywhZFjb_lng- MasterGrief, on 02/09/2008, -0/+6...This has absolutely _nothing_ to do with a man going on a killing spree in a place of government.
- lhughey, on 02/09/2008, -11/+16This is obviously was a terrible event. I feel sorry for the families of the slain citizens. However, i am interested in finding out the full story of what provoked this man.
- pixelbender, on 02/09/2008, -0/+8Keep checking KSDK.com, myfoxSTL.com, and STLtoday.com
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -9/+4What do you mean, 'provoked'?? That implies that this shooting was deserved. Wrong- there is no justification for these murders.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3There is no justification for his provocation either.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2There was no provocation idiot. Getting tickets for illegal parking is NOt provocation. IT happens to thousands of people a day and they don't shoot anyone.
- rigg419, on 02/10/2008, -0/+2First, no amount of parking tickets - not 150 or even 150 million -justifies shooting or killing anyone (except maybe the damn meter maid). But, just because it doesn't provoke you or me doesn't mean it might not provoke someone else.
I mean, how stupid can you be? I put the definitions right up there. To provoke someone means to anger them, intention is not necessarily part of it. For example: If it angered you when I pointed out how stupid you are just now, then I provoked you, even if I didn't mean to make you angry. I was just stating fact.
- rigg419, on 02/10/2008, -0/+2First, no amount of parking tickets - not 150 or even 150 million -justifies shooting or killing anyone (except maybe the damn meter maid). But, just because it doesn't provoke you or me doesn't mean it might not provoke someone else.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2There was no provocation idiot. Getting tickets for illegal parking is NOt provocation. IT happens to thousands of people a day and they don't shoot anyone.
- rigg419, on 02/09/2008, -0/+5You idiot. I'll tell you what he/she means by 'provoked'. You see, provocation does not equal justification:
pro·voke
1.to anger, enrage, exasperate, or vex.
jus·ti·fi·ca·tion
1.a reason, fact, circumstance, or explanation that justifies or defends
The former does not imply the latter.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3There is no justification for his provocation either.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -3/+5He was being asked to follow the same laws that you or I would have to.
- mozert, on 02/09/2008, -1/+4..ya but we want the full story
- phrozted, on 02/09/2008, -4/+30What, like everyone who commits a crime should be photographed so as to look the part? That's absurd. Murderers are always people.
- SelfAbortion, on 02/09/2008, -1/+10Not when they're ninja turtles.
- MrDiggDugg, on 02/09/2008, -4/+2One the one hand, you're right. On the other hand, does it really matter if they find the least-flattering pictures or the most? Either way, they're scum.
- DrunkChimp, on 02/09/2008, -21/+5Too bad he didn't take down more assclowns. Probably all white pedophile republicans too. Those *****-heads got what they deserved. And one more thing "Whitey", OJ is innocent!
- tacklebox, on 02/09/2008, -4/+5The mayor was democrat. He ran on the Pedophile Democrat ticket. Has a pretty big following with the intoxicated simians.
- nanoka2121, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2you are a racist idiot
- thrallie, on 02/09/2008, -28/+17Good riddance, government employees.
- georgetds, on 02/09/2008, -6/+7Wow, what, seriously?
- mCanada, on 02/09/2008, -3/+5Are you competing with DrunkChimp for the most buried comment of the century?
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -2/+1I think people who work for the government are the ego-maniacal psychos, personally.
- dagnome1984, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2Go ***** yourself
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -15/+9Charles Lee is the first of many to stand up against the unconstitutional tyrannical federal, state and local governments. People who are the jack booted gestapo thugs of these occupying regimes under the auspice of "government," we will resist you when you have broken us, taken everything that can be taken and back us into a corner. This is what happens when you break people, you bastard governments!
- hawkspur, on 02/09/2008, -3/+8Yeah, parking tickets are our tyranical overlords way of controlling us and are worth destroying six families for.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Probably not, BUT it is good for government officials to know that this sort of thing can happen to them. It makes them more honest and interested in protecting our rights instead of getting boners because they can tell people what to do and take their money or property away from them.
I'm not saying these folks deserved to be killed at all. I'm just pointing out that this is the extreme that it is OK to go to in order to protect freedom, should it come to that. I think most Americans, particularly younger ones, have forgotten that.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Probably not, BUT it is good for government officials to know that this sort of thing can happen to them. It makes them more honest and interested in protecting our rights instead of getting boners because they can tell people what to do and take their money or property away from them.
- endustry, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Rob Halford? Wasn't he the singer for Judas Priest?
This is what happens
when you break people,
you bastard governments!
-GUITAR SOLO-- Niightwitch, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2Grow up.
- tacklebox, on 02/09/2008, -3/+4Did you even read the article? There were parking tickets for commercial trucks. You know the kind that when parked on the road day after day ruin the road.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Why would it ruin the road? Maybe it's different in MO, but the roads in my neighborhood are the same as the main street where all these commercial trucks travel anyway. There are a lot of folks in my neighborhood who park their commercial vehicles by their house.
- TheFinaleofSeem, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2It wasn't because of parking commercial vehicles, it's that he was parking heavy equipment on the road. That doesn't just mess up the road, but it obstructs it as well. It's illegal for a good reason, and this guy simply wouldn't stop doing it, even after the city offered to drop the tickets.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -2/+3Why would it ruin the road? Maybe it's different in MO, but the roads in my neighborhood are the same as the main street where all these commercial trucks travel anyway. There are a lot of folks in my neighborhood who park their commercial vehicles by their house.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -2/+1You making this stuff you write up? Wow, you're out there!
- TheFinaleofSeem, on 02/09/2008, -3/+2Holy *****. You sir are a royal moron of the highest order. He was parking heavy construction equipment on the street. That is illegal for a very good reason. The city even said they'd drop the tickets if he'd just knock it off. The guy was also thrown out of city council meetings for being an asshat. He was an unstable douche of a man. But hey, it was against the evil government, so his murder was a good thing!
You are a truly deplorable, despicable human being.
- hawkspur, on 02/09/2008, -3/+8Yeah, parking tickets are our tyranical overlords way of controlling us and are worth destroying six families for.
- AdamaObama, on 02/09/2008, -10/+1Sad thing is that this guy went to my university in the 70's. Just read it on my hometown's newspaper website.
- Falcon19, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6yes, that is the sad part
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1Well, I for one was saddened by it.
- Falcon19, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6yes, that is the sad part
- okmaybe, on 02/09/2008, -8/+8I sure would like to here the brothers story in more detail.
- danielplainview, on 02/09/2008, -18/+10I like it when this kinda stuff happens, it brings people back to reality, that they cannot constantly ***** with people in this imaginary world of legal retaliation only. DONT ***** WITH PEOPLE they may kill you.
- robhalfords, on 02/09/2008, -8/+5Hell yeah.
- hawkspur, on 02/09/2008, -5/+6Yes, we should stop enforcing the law and let people park wherever the ***** they want to. Hell, why not let everyone park on the sidewalks or in busy intersections, after all if we enforce the law, they might kill us.
- Melikoth, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3Laws are essentially arbitrary anyhow, via loopholes, connections or just straight up cash.
I was issued an incorrect parking permit a while back, by the parking office / police station. I got a ticket for parking in the lot it designated because they knew I wasn't staff... but when I would park in a student lot, they'd ticket me for having the wrong parking permit. I ended up parking at a McDonalds and walking an extra 15 minutes to avoid the $25 ticket I would get for parking anywhere. Point being, I didn't really have much recourse I was being accused of "theft of services" due to their error. I was just a wallet full of money that they wanted.
Plus, believing they would actually void thousands of dollars worth of pure profit for the city is hard for me to swallow.
- Melikoth, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3Laws are essentially arbitrary anyhow, via loopholes, connections or just straight up cash.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2I certainly wouldn't mind seeing government officials tiptoe around their people for a change.
- will500, on 02/09/2008, -28/+41What's funny is I paid a ticket today.
I was muscled by the government mafia to pay it.
I was in a near fatal car crash in November (not my fault) yet the officer gave me a ticket anyway for "losing control". (It was either swerve or die.)
and becuase I didn't pay it right away they sent me an ARREST WARRANT with "see you soon" written on it in my mail box.
I'm a working professional and I bring millions of dollars into the local community.
So ***** these assholes and ***** this mafia local government muscling people out of money *****.- TheAtomicMoose, on 02/09/2008, -6/+14Kill 'em! Hooray!
- will500, on 02/09/2008, -9/+14Heh, I wouldn't want to "kill'em", but paying $150 of the $200 ticket while struggling to buy a used car after the crash and then sending me an arrest warrant, over $50....
ya....- satanatnmtedu, on 02/09/2008, -5/+4Then, maybe you should use some of those millions you bring to the community. Sorry, we only have your statement about the crash. So, unless ther eis some additional, more objective information, your credibility is lousy.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -9/+8What do you mean? Take responsibility for your actions, and pay your tickets. Be a man- don't blame others for your problems.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3A challenge to manhood, is it? You truly are an idiot.
If you want to challenge someone's manhood, pull out your man ethics book and flip to the page where it says that it's cowardly to gang up on someone in numbers.
They are obviously no manly virtues I could glean from you.
- jjacksonRIAB, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3A challenge to manhood, is it? You truly are an idiot.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -2/+21So, you are this huge professional bring in MILLIONS to the local community but you are strugging to buy a used car?
And with that, you lost all credibility. Then again, I guess a cashier at McDonalds brings in millions of dollars to hte local community. Oh but wait...you said professional. So I guess you ar a MANAGER of a McDonalds.- smacksaw, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2What? Where do you get this used car thing?
And...I was in a McDonald's in Lakewood (WA) which is south Tacoma ***** area and they had a sign right as you entered. All managers got a $5600 signing bonus, minimum and the salary range for a Supervisor was $40,000-$82,000.
So we're laughing at McDonald's management WHY? Even the Drive-Thru lead job was posted for $32,000.- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2three posts below you where the commenter says that he is struggling to buy a used car.
And ***** on the McDonalds thing. Perhaps a REGIONAL supervisor of the area's McDonalds makes that much. But I never said anything about that. I am talking about the manager of one McDonalds. - will500, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2Actually, we happened to be in between investments and expenditures at that time, bad time for a crash. Just because millions are being transfered doesn't mean the person dealing will always have it on hand.
Anyway, organized crime. - satanswetnipple, on 02/10/2008, -0/+0I do not have tons of cash, but I understood you will500. Then again, I have known far too many multi millionaires in my day. They all seem to have their cash tied up in investments somewhere. This is why they are multi millionaires. They do not spend their readies, they use it to make more instead.
Maybe these people that did not understand your situation, know nothing about how to manage money?
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -0/+2three posts below you where the commenter says that he is struggling to buy a used car.
- smacksaw, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2What? Where do you get this used car thing?
- albotasinc, on 02/09/2008, -13/+6If this had happened thousands of years ago this guy's death would have been considered an honor. He died for his rights. Sure, he SHOULD have followed the law, but being barred from speaking... no sense in that. I'm not justifying this guy's actions, I'm just saying that when you strip humanity down to a core level, his actions seem rational. Weird, isn't it.
- dirtymcgrit, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3he was actually allowed, by the mayor he shot, to participate in several council meetings, despite getting over a hundred tickets and not paying them. i dont know about you, but if i had 150 tickets id be in jail. this man got more than fair treatment. ya dont really know what you are talking about.
- l0k0, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3At city hall meetings he would say "jackassess" over and over again into the mic until he was forcibly removed. That's not practicing freedom of speech, that's abusing it.
- Darkicewolf, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2I don't get the honer bit at all.. throwing this into the frame of say the 11 century isn't a valid argument since if someone snapped at the ruling authority of the time, more likely then not they would have had a ligament case.. But not here ,
There was nothing rational about this person motives, he simple snapped because he didn't get his way. He was even offered a way out if he simply obeyed the law. Any rational person would have said hey maybe it not right that I'm parking my big massive demolition trucks or what have you in a residential area to save a few bucks (that's a bit of an assumption, but seems reasonable)
A reasonable person would have simple accepted that he was in the wrong, want and rented out some parking space in an Industrial zoned area and parked there and let the matter go. Not bottling it up to the point where shooting a bunch of people seemed like a fine and perfectly reasonable idea - 99er, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1No, actually, his actions don't seem rational. At all.
- Baderade, on 02/09/2008, -21/+23*****. A good portion of that council were at my grandmother's funeral no more than 5 months ago. Good friends of my family, they did nothing to deserve this. That line "No one can just you but God"....it just makes me hope there is infact a hell, and he's there burning.
I can't say that I'm typically a religious person, but.....parking tickets. That's a great reason to kill innocent people.- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -2/+1And bless those that prey upon the productive working people, because that's exactly what bureaucrats are. Hell, designed for bureaucrats, run by bureaucrats.
- satanswetnipple, on 02/10/2008, -2/+0This speaks more about your grandmothers choice of friends than anything. I myself am white, and I would bet my left testicle that your grandmother was white. Do you have any details about how many black funerals they attended?
- zaphar, on 02/09/2008, -2/+1And bless those that prey upon the productive working people, because that's exactly what bureaucrats are. Hell, designed for bureaucrats, run by bureaucrats.
- TheAtomicMoose, on 02/09/2008, -12/+3Hot Fuzz was good, but...
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -26/+54First of all, let me say that I don't agree with either the actions of the gunman, nor the actions of the city.
However,...
I think a large portion of the police and government nowadays are a bit too drunk with their self-endowed power. I think it is good for the government and the police to know that it is us, the people, who give them rights, not the other way around.
It is good for government officials to know that they can be shot dead if they take things too far. It is that fear that will keep us free.
I'm not saying this was right in this case, just that I believe it is good for the government to live with that fear in the back of their minds. Hopefully, it makes them be better officials.
Considering all the money and personal property government takes away from people all the time for a variety of reasons, I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -13/+12 If you read the article at all you would know the government here bent over backwards to help this guy.
He was just a ***** disturber at meetings constantly interrupting them and really not following any laws.
Government officials are people too and shouldn't have to live with the thought of being shot like this. That kind of ***** up thinking is won't solve anything.- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -4/+9Wow, that's awesome how you can just read my mind and tell whether or not I read the article. Just so you know, I did read the article and 150 tickets? is that REALLY necessary?
Also, if you have a quarrel with the government and they won't listen, damn straight you go yell at them. That's what you're supposed to do.
I don't care if my comments are buried or not since Digg's opinions of me matter oh so not-at-all. However, I find the fact that my comment was buried disturbing. It shows either a) a lack of currently 3 Digg member's ability to read, or more scary, b) a total failure to understand the importance of freedom and the length that it is OK to go to to defend it; which is after all what my comment was about.- stack3r, on 02/09/2008, -2/+5HERE HERE!
I was suprised you were dugg down to. - nickstl77, on 02/09/2008, -6/+5Actually, if you have a quarrel with the government, you dont "go yell at them". You take the matter to a higher court for a ruling. You dont go down and scream racist remarks, disrupt meetings, and threaten violence. That's actually illegal, and he should have gone to jail. However, the council members had a heart and did not have him prosecuted, because they thought he was innocent, just a bit obsessive. Now it cost them their lives.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -3/+2I disagree. Why should I be burdened with the expense of the attorney and court fees because I have a disagreement with the government?
If you actually read some of the comments made by founding members of our country, part of the checks and balances of freedom are people throwing the fear of God into their government representatives (at least the fear of meeting him prematurely).
Like I said before, I wouldn't say that this particular case merited the results that took place. But I do think they merited a good heated statement towards the officials. Believe it or not, not all laws and city ordinances are just. When a law isn't just, it is the responsibility of the government to listen and make changes when necessary. All to often, however, government officials get in the mindset that they are in control and we have to do everything they say or they will take away our money and/or property. This is absolutely not the case.
Of course, government likes being in control, being able to tell you what you can and can't do, and taking away your money and/or property when you cross them, so I'm sure we'll see the day when government says they are going to take away our guns and weapons, and far too many people will think it is a good idea, and those people will be deceived and those people will be wrong.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -3/+2I disagree. Why should I be burdened with the expense of the attorney and court fees because I have a disagreement with the government?
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -3/+5"Just so you know, I did read the article and 150 tickets? is that REALLY necessary?
Also, if you have a quarrel with the government and they won't listen, damn straight you go yell at them. That's what you're supposed to do."
After him not listening to any of their demands what were they supposed to do? You break the law you get a ticket....pretty simple.
Yes because yelling solves everything. You preach about the importance of freedom but our court system and checks and balances are in the constitution also.
He was doing more than yelling....he was arrested many times for various threats, racist remarks, and even assault.
The government did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation.- smacksaw, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3Your so-called system of checks and balances was able to cite this guy 150 times for the same, ongoing infraction.
Look. It's just not that hard to understand. He's supposed to go to the city council meetings. Their meeting, their rules. They decided that they didn't want him speaking there. So what did he do? He went to the courts so he could speak and therefore play the city council's game. The federal judge said his rights were not being violated and that he could be ticketed 150 times and have no way to bring the issue up in front of those responsible for ticketing him.
You see, you don't understand anything beyond what is mutually exclusive in your mind. Just because he did something horrifically and heinously wrong doesn't mean the government didn't do something less wrong.
Turn the example around. How about the people who get a ticket or arrested for a minor infraction and get tasered to death? Imagine a guy with a bunch of parking tickets and he got in the cops face. He's clearly in the wrong, but disobeys a lawful order. So they taser him and he dies. We'd all be saying how the gov't went too far, but the guy did do wrong.
It's the same damn thing. Life isn't as black and white as you want to make it out to be. The gov't failed this man over and over again. Whether he was full of ***** or not isn't the issue. He tried to play their game and they played it back to him a hundredfold. So he upped the ante and played it back a thousandfold.
This is America. This is how we do things. We escalate and abuse and both sides are extremely guilty in the matter. I don't think this was a big enough deal to warrant 150 tickets. It's harassment. I just don't think that even when I'm 80 and my prostate is a softball that my penis will be so inadequate in size that I would need to make an example of someone like that. Sure, I respect laws. But I can't see exercising them in this manner. It's a waste of everyone's time, and in a giant pissing contest like this, I bet if every person who is dead today were alive they would say it wasn't worth it.
Their families will tell you that right now.
It's not worth it to use power over someone to the point where you break a damaged person to that point. I wouldn't do that to someone because I wouldn't want to see what would happen to me if I antagonised someone like that. I don't want to know where a person's limit is. I would not be so foolish as to think that I could give someone 150 tickets (even if I am in the right) and then remove their ability to protest and just think that an already upset person is going to go away because I can legally ignore him. I don't want to know what a person in that situation would do. Power must be used cautiously and responsibly.
This entire situation was simply not worth it. People acted like children and that was wrong.
- smacksaw, on 02/09/2008, -3/+3Your so-called system of checks and balances was able to cite this guy 150 times for the same, ongoing infraction.
- jjmckay, on 02/09/2008, -1/+3zigman91090 don't be so certain the government is pure and innocent as ivory snow in this incident.
- stack3r, on 02/09/2008, -2/+5HERE HERE!
- lazyfisherman, on 02/09/2008, -1/+6Government officials shouldn't abuse their power either. It seems like the gunman was in the wrong here but far too often it's the other way around.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -4/+9Wow, that's awesome how you can just read my mind and tell whether or not I read the article. Just so you know, I did read the article and 150 tickets? is that REALLY necessary?
- weitek, on 02/09/2008, -10/+18I wish I could dig you up 50 times. The government should fear the people, not the other way around. If they are prepared to ruin your life & livelyhood over a parking dispute then they deserve what they get. Even if the allegations of racism/discrimination weren't true, but especially so if they were. No sympathy.
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -6/+1So they should of just left him alone after him not paying the first..and second...and every other ticket after that when he broke the law?
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2No, but they should not have given him 150 tickets and they should have negotiated a deal with him, not just said, "that's how it is and if you don't do what we say we're going to take away your money".
I really can't pass judgement on the validity of the law since the article didn't really go in to enough detail to do so. However, stubbornly insisting that your way is right and punishing somebody financially to get your way when he feels just as stubbornly that he is right doesn't seem to have been the right course of action in this case as several families can attest to today.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2No, but they should not have given him 150 tickets and they should have negotiated a deal with him, not just said, "that's how it is and if you don't do what we say we're going to take away your money".
- TheFinaleofSeem, on 02/09/2008, -5/+3He would not stop. They offered to drop all the tickets and he STILL would not stop. He got violent at meetings and yelled threats. Yeah, it was the evil government's fault.
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -6/+4The government wasn't prepared to ruin his life- they tried to reason with him, but he refused. Instead, he ruined 6 lives, and those of their families. Heck, but doing this, I'm sure that he even ruined the lives of his own family. What a sick person.
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -6/+1So they should of just left him alone after him not paying the first..and second...and every other ticket after that when he broke the law?
- 99er, on 02/09/2008, -5/+3No. There is nothing good about this. Nothing good can come of it.
- bingobongony, on 02/09/2008, -7/+2Are you ***** stupid? The guy BLATANTLY flouted the law. And you think it is GOOD that teh government fear what would happen if they don't give people like him a free pass? Hell...they wer GOING to give him a free pass. All he had to do was to FINALLY obey the law.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1No, but I'd say you were because you didn't actually read what I said.
- 400zone, on 02/09/2008, -7/+9Yeah, using violence will definitely make the authorities think twice. Let's just go shoot innocent people when we get tickets we don't agree with. ***** man, I got a parking ticket a few weeks ago. While that doesn't warrant a shooting by your standards, some city official deserves at least a broken leg, no? I'm sure if it was your friend/relative that was shot and killed for no reason you'd be singing a different tune. Quit being a ***** douchebag and admit this guy had much better avenues to solve his problems with the city.
@weitek, You are a moron. No sympathy? What about the cops and reporter who were just doing their jobs? So they deserved to die because this guy had issues with policies? Here's a thought, don't break the law and you will stop getting tickets. But no man, you're so ***** hardcore you say people deserve to die.
Please, neither of you breed.- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -7/+3Why don't you actually read what I said before you go calling me a douchebag, douchebag?
- Pogue_Mahone, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2I think 400zone is bang on. Your comments are ignoring the fact that "government" is not some faceless entity that is just out to be unjust and totalitarian - they're all people with mothers and fathers. No one deserves to live in fear of being gunned down at work. A society that encourages their government to live in fear is barbaric and is only a short hop from encouraging EVERYONE to live in fear of their lives for their day-to-day decisions. The people who form a government being forced to live in mortal fear for doing their jobs is no government at all - it's just anarchy.
Morality is not a black and white thing, and you shouldn't have to live in fear of your life every day because your morality may be different than someone else's, no matter what your job is. I know that there are lots of places in the world where this is actually the case (according to some people,apparently, including Kirkland), but that does not make it right or justifiable at all.
- Pogue_Mahone, on 02/09/2008, -2/+2I think 400zone is bang on. Your comments are ignoring the fact that "government" is not some faceless entity that is just out to be unjust and totalitarian - they're all people with mothers and fathers. No one deserves to live in fear of being gunned down at work. A society that encourages their government to live in fear is barbaric and is only a short hop from encouraging EVERYONE to live in fear of their lives for their day-to-day decisions. The people who form a government being forced to live in mortal fear for doing their jobs is no government at all - it's just anarchy.
- Herolint, on 02/09/2008, -7/+3Why don't you actually read what I said before you go calling me a douchebag, douchebag?
- zigman91090, on 02/09/2008, -13/+12 If you read the article at all you would know the government here bent over backwards to help this guy.
- VinnieDaMac, on 02/09/2008, -13/+3I live in St. Louis. This literally happened like 20 mins away from where I live. Scary stuff.
- pixelbender, on 02/09/2008, -0/+19Description is incorrect - he killed 2 police officers (one out in the parking lot (supposedly) when he arrived - shot in the back) and then 3 council members, wounding the mayor as well as a journalist at the meeting.
- DrunkChimp, on 02/09/2008, -30/+15The Kirkwood streets are safer tonight, now that 5 city employee pedophiles have assumed room temperature. The law didn't take these bastards off the streets, it took a brave tax and ticket paying citizen folks.
- davemartin7777, on 02/09/2008, -2/+7He wasn't a "ticket paying" citizen.
- koicho, on 02/09/2008, -0/+1Unfortunately he paid it off in blood.
- Skike83, on 02/09/2008, -1/+1are you serious that's your response for 5 humans being murdered? is that they were employee pedophiles? are you even from the area to know them or their family? what do you claim to be their crime against society to have the law take them off the streets? you really must have some stones to be thinking such thoughts in a time of morning, and like "davemartin7777" pointed out he didn't pay a single damn ticket, get your ***** straight
- davemartin7777, on 02/09/2008, -2/+7He wasn't a "ticket paying" citizen.
- HotDogBun, on 02/09/2008, -1/+2It's good to finally see the backstory on one of these 'senseless' shootings.
Didn't it make you wonder when a man killed a judges husband and mother a few years ago, what had the judge done?
Didn't it make you wonder when a few years ago we saw the footage of a man trying to kill a lawyer who kept ducking behind a tree, what had the lawyer done?
We don't have a problem with guns or violence in this country, what we have is a problem with people doing horrible wrongs to other people, and doing it either from a position of or with the full protection of authority, be it legislative or legal, leaving the victim with no legal recourse and ultimately driving some people over the edge. That is the real problem. - Pathetique, on 02/09/2008, -8/+4Seriously... to the person talking about how this man would be honored for his death thousands of years ago, and anyone else who acted like this man had a right to do what he did...
What the hell? My parents do things I loathe and don't agree with all of the time. In fact, I despise them. There are always going to be people you don't get along with. Doesn't mean killing them is the answer. Thanks to him family's have been torn apart. Just because I don't agree with my parents doesn't mean I want to end their lives.
How would you like it if someone murdered someone close to you? Just because you love them doesn't mean someone else doesn't think they're an *****. -
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