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530 Comments
- eurekaspringsar, on 04/18/2009, -45/+280All of those involved should be tried under war crimes in a U.S. court! Or we as a nation are nothing better than monsters.
- PhilPerspective, on 04/18/2009, -31/+242KSM is scum of the earth, but 183 times in one month? Jack Bauer would probably even say WTF.
- charlie6969, on 04/19/2009, -19/+172If we lose ourselves in this war, then we have already lost the war.
- sugarazor, on 04/19/2009, -12/+132That's over six times a day. Imagine if every four hours, someone forcefully straps you to a board, puts a bag over your head and dumps water on your face to simulate drowning. Seriously, if you really think it isn't torture, you need to have it done to you.
- inactive, on 04/19/2009, -13/+128Wow. That's a lot of ticking time bombs. George Bush didn't just save America, he saved Earth, Mars & most probably Venus.
- inactive, on 04/18/2009, -24/+125The last great US President wanted to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces". I wish he had.
- thejimmyo, on 04/19/2009, -12/+86"Detainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots: Waterboarding, Rough Interrogation of Abu Zubaida Produced False Leads, Officials Say"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ... - pintomp3, on 04/19/2009, -6/+72No wonder he confessed to being the mastermind behind everything from 9/11 to Pepsi Clear.
- Jordan117, on 04/19/2009, -10/+71Waterboarding simulates imminent death. It triggers the body's death-panic reflexes. It's said to be one of the most terrifying and horrible feelings one can experience. Now imagine experiencing it 183 times in one month -- more than six times per day.
Some people might scoff that mere terror is not that bad, that as long as you don't injure the subject it's OK. Just think back to medieval torture. The rack and the iron maiden and crucifixion weren't bad simply because they killed people. They were bad because they inflicted terrible, intolerable pain. Waterboarding inflicts that same horror and fear -- just without leaving any marks.
No person, no matter what they've done, deserves that. Every civilized law and code sets that down -- the Bible, the Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, take your pick. Anyone one who argues for it is either ignorant of what exactly they're talking about, or a monster. - Anomaly100, on 04/19/2009, -14/+66There are still some on the right that don't acknowledge this as torture. Oh, if I were an evil person, I'd like to introduce Joe Scarborough, Limbaugh and a few others to a waterboard. But, I don't want anyone to go through that in this country.
Well...maybe..nah!! - DigitAl56K, on 04/19/2009, -8/+59Here is what I find funny: The US government is now exempting its own agents from prosecution for what it itself recognized as a war crime and prosecuted people for after WWII.
How is it even possible? Maybe Hitler should have pardoned the Nazi war criminals..
Don't read this post as anti-american, but if you let people do this to another human being (183 times in a month, no less) then you're basically saying "it's okay" or at the very least "we're above the law and there's nothing you can do about it". - sarahlee, on 04/19/2009, -15/+62Pretty damned embarrassing that some in the world will now think this is who we are.
- ObamaYouth, on 04/19/2009, -8/+49so at the 183rd time, he's finally convinced they are going to drown him for real?
- Dipsomaniac, on 04/19/2009, -3/+41So, not only did the torture fail to provide useful information, it actually caused resources to be wasted investigating bad information...
I get the feeling that people who support torture do so just because they're sick enough to get off on it. - slyzxx, on 04/19/2009, -7/+45If American prisoners were treated like this in this day and age, America would have gone ballistic and you would see mass protests, government threats and so on. I`m in no ways defending the guy but i`m just making the point that if the tables were turned it would be really bad.
- nova912, on 04/19/2009, -20/+55Yeah, this will defeat terrorism... way to ***** go Bush, you made us safer alright.
/s - letsgetsurgical, on 04/19/2009, -0/+33Really? Let's ask anyone who's spent a few years in a POW camp. Torture is designed to NOT kill, stupidass.
- jakereilly, on 04/19/2009, -15/+48So that ticking time bomb huh? That bomb that required IMMEDIATE action to save US lives from an impending attack? That ticking time bomb that lasted a month?
neocons, you have no argument left. - Khiva, on 04/19/2009, -6/+36@poprocksandsoda - Your grasp of history is, while informed, nonetheless one-sided and incomplete. JFK, like most presidents, went through periods of both intimacy and estrangement with the CIA through the course of his presidency, at times over-relying on it (Bay of Pigs) and later mistrusting it, to the point that he tried to get his brother Bobby put in charge of its most sensitive operations. Many presidents go through similar periods of waxing and waning in their relations with the CIA, even Eisenhower, who famously claimed that the CIA would leave a "legacy of ashes" to his successors (supplying as well the name of the Pulitzer Prize winning book from which I am drawing this information - correct me, though, if you have reason to think my source is tainted).
Thus, while CuteCathy supplies one, incomplete version of the truth, you have countered with another one-sided, incomplete version. Nothing wrong with that, as dialectic and debate are great ways to undercover the fundamental facts, but it doesn't fully ground your resort to ad hominum. - drunkirish, on 04/19/2009, -4/+31You don't know much about torture, apparently.
How many light shocks to your balls and nipples could you live through? Let's find out. - temujin1234, on 04/19/2009, -7/+32Reading the posts defending torture, it's amazing how much unchecked power some conservatives are willing to give to the federal government.
- bjornski, on 04/19/2009, -0/+23Do I really have to add the /s and Nazi references for you to get it?
Was it too vague a reference for you? - hawkspur, on 04/19/2009, -5/+27You do know that the United States executed a Japanese commander for waterboarding PoWs during WWII?
- richirwin, on 04/19/2009, -2/+23On the upside, KSM was voted "Cleanest Terrorist" by his fellow inmates.
- mithrasinvictus, on 04/19/2009, -1/+22Fake confessions. Do you really think the inquisition found witches?
- Leonffs, on 11/20/2009, -7/+28At least we got some good information out of it.
O WAIT - poprocksandsoda, on 04/19/2009, -36/+56Actually, your grasp on history is totally ***** up. JFK used the CIA to have teachers, scholars, doctors and other leading figures executed in Iraq. This led to the events that brought Saddam to power. If you think I'm making this ***** up, read a history book. In many ways, you can thank JFK for Saddam Hussein. You can verify this even with just Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy#Iraq
Typical Left know-it-all. You are spoon fed your knowledge from a bunch of Hollywood types. The way I was raised I rely on cold hard facts. - inactive, on 04/19/2009, -4/+24Yes, I think they should be waterboarded, hell why not, they continue to believe it isn't torture. Put your money where your mouth is boys. I would like to add Cheney, Hannity, Bill O., Beck- pretty much all of Fux to that list!
- freedomjoe, on 04/19/2009, -5/+25Yeah, Rush thinks it feels like a slap on the face, so why not make the coward man up. His butt boil can't save him now.
- FuZi0nDET, on 04/19/2009, -4/+23FYI JFK was beholden unto J. Edgar Hoover because he couldn't keep his dick in his pants. J. Edgar Hoover knew this and used that to exploit the JFK's administration to back Hoover's nut job actions like surveillance on MLK. Which JFK and Bobby were apposed to, but they both knew Hoover had dirt on JFK. It wouldn't be a strech to assume other government agencies knew this.
Before you say so what, JFK nailed some East German whore it would have been a major breach of National Security if this info would have broke. This East German chick was a secretary to a high ranking East German official. This would have been the equivalent of Fox having unequivocal proof that Obama was a Muslim during the elections. - meed, on 04/19/2009, -3/+22The USA can't deny that water boarding is torture since after world war II. Why? because after wwII, the USA helped define it as torture and people were convicted of war crimes because of we had defined it as torture.
To simply turn around and say it isn't torture not only is spitting in the blind face of justice, but spitting in the eye of those we prosecuted, and our servicemen in WWII that were water boarded. WTF fight a war on terror if our own government starts terrorizing people right back?
Ok so your going to waterboard someone, but doing the math you water boarded this guy almost 6 times a day on average. After the first week of doing that, don't you think he would of either figured out that he wasn't really going to be killed or he would of given up all the info he had, then started lying simply to make it stop? - inactive, on 04/19/2009, -0/+18You are being dug down for for being you, not for being wrong (it's usually synonyms in your case, but still)
- gravisan, on 04/19/2009, -3/+21instead of typing all that jibberish, you could have just said , i don't get it!
- DirtyBinLV, on 04/19/2009, -0/+18The point is to trigger an involuntary nervous system response that is triggered by your lungs filling with water. No matter how much the rational part of your brain knows that you aren't going to actually die, you will still panic and generally freak out. The idea is that the subject will give up information to make the panic stop. The problem is that they will literally say anything that they believe will make the panic stop.
- pgoetz, on 04/19/2009, -0/+17Further it's already well known that innocent detainees were tortured.
- novenator, on 04/19/2009, -5/+22yeah, that's a feasible option. sigh
- bjornski, on 04/19/2009, -4/+21Oh c'mon, they were just following orders.
- ChadN, on 04/19/2009, -2/+18@poprocksandsoda - face it, you lost that round.
- inactive, on 04/19/2009, -17/+33Well if the neocons wanted a fight between Christians and Muslims this kind of ***** is a good start.
- sathias, on 04/19/2009, -4/+20Wow, he must have *heaps* of information.
- rv361162, on 04/19/2009, -1/+16Nial hits the nail on the head.
***** me up enough and I'll say I ate bin ladens ***** for dinner covered in paprika if that gets me away from being mind-***** for the 184th time that month... - inactive, on 04/19/2009, -6/+21When are you signing up, *****?
- rv361162, on 04/19/2009, -5/+20Poprocks still believes that ***** the government's feeding us about 9/11 being KSM's master plan?
***** idiot even admitted and signed admissions to planning all kinds of ***** and bombing a place that wasn't even in existance until a few years after he was arrested...
Come on now, you're smarter than that, right? - novenator, on 04/19/2009, -3/+18wow, you really told him!
/s - hove, on 04/19/2009, -0/+15Innocent until proven guilty, so they are all innocent when they are tortured.
- bugwayji, on 04/19/2009, -3/+18 No, it 'is' who you are!
- Junkyarddawg, on 04/19/2009, -1/+15It's the second option, that the US is saying "we're above the law and there's nothing you can do about it". It's OK only when the US does it, and only because it's the US doing it. Bush even stated it as a US policy.
Non-US citizens have no value or human rights at all if the US doesn't want to give it to them, and the reason the US can do this is because it spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined.
Might is right. Power flows from the barrel of a gun. - Gatorray11, on 04/19/2009, -5/+19Gang: It keeps coming back to Abu Zubydah.
But the thing nobody is dealing with is what two books -- The Secrets of the Kingdom, by Gerald Posner and House of Bush, House of Saud, by Craig Unger -- have reported:
Zubydah told two American Arab interrogators -- posing as Saudis -- that Prince Ahmed bin Salman, nephew of then Saudi King Fahd and owner of Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner War Emblem, knew in advance about 9/11 and didn't tell the Americans.
According to the books, Zubydah also said Prince Ahmed and two of his cousins -- also nephews of King Fahd -- made regular Mafia protection payments to al Qaeda. The deal was simple the money could be used any way al Qaeda wanted -- including attacking anywhere in the world -- EXCEPT in Saudi Arabia.
The bottom line, according to both books, within less than four months all three cousins were killed within an eight-day period under very suspicious circumstances in Saudi Arabia.
Now I find it interesting that the CIA got very valuable and good information from Zubydah using regular interrogation techniques and that he became unreliable when tortured. I find it also interesting that, according to press reports obviously leaked by the CIA, George II and Tricky Dickey II kept pushing for the torture. My obvious question is did they keep pushing for his torture to discredit the man who fingered the Saudi Royal Family? Isn't it strange that the man who apparently is the only one that fingered the Saudi royals in 9/11 is tortured and tapes of his torture are destroyed? And is the CIA's latest version that his importance was inflated a cover-up for the information he gave? Let's not forget the close ties between the Saudi Royals and the Bushistas.
When the Bushistas were still stealing the 2000 election in Florida, Prince Bandar bin Sultan and George I went on a European hunting trip to celebrate the George II victory. Two days after 9/11 Prince Bandar, then the Saudi ambassador to the U.S., visited George II at the White House. Within hours Prince Ahmed and over 140 Saudis rounded up from places like Lexington, KY (the Keeneland Yearling sales), Tampa, Fla. and Washington D.C. (meeting of the Carlyle Group) and flown to Boston. From there the Saudis -- including 16 half brothers of osama bin Laden were rushed out of the country.
James A. Baker III and George I were at the annual meeting of the Carlyle Group -- a Saudi investment firm. There George I watched the Twin Towers go down in flames with a half brother of Osama bin Laden. The Saudis were rushed out of the country with little or no FBI questioning? Why?
Baker has been the errand boy of both the Bush family and the Saudi Royal Family. When the families of some of the victims 9/11 sued the Saudi Royal Family Baker represented them in court and got the suit dismissed before potentially revealing discovery could get underway.
George II was repeatedly bailed out by the Saudis as he ran four oil companies into the ground. According to House of Bush, House of Saud over $1 billion has been transferred over the years from the House of Saud to the House of Bush. One of the venture capitalists involved with the young George's failed oil ventures was another half brother of Osama bin Laden.
Of course, these are not the kind of questions Republicans want to answer. They are still Bushed -- the cover-up mode for George II and Tricky Dickey II. -
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