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67 Comments
- kitsua, on 07/20/2009, -2/+36"Maybe the robots will save us"
Famous last words. - scamper22, on 07/20/2009, -1/+27The irony of your statement is of course that it is only safe and clean because they keep other people (such as yourself) out :P
- raybury, on 07/20/2009, -4/+28Japan needs to figure out the values it wants to promote, and then allow massive immigration of folks who will comply with that visions of Japanese-ness. Or die slowly like Russia.
- HimThatSpeaks, on 07/20/2009, -7/+28Japan could get more mellow for the next 50 years and still come out with the craziest crap ever.
- zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -4/+24This is specifically why there've been articles on why Japan needs to ease its immigration restrictions. Still a lot of conservative anti-immigration politicians who speak of the prostitution and drug-trafficking that accompanies with immigration. Even short-term workers from Korea and China on 1-2 year visas speak of being driven away by the visa restrictions.
If only Japan (and other countries) could see the benefits of immigration in America.
Andy Grove, founder and former CEO of Intel Corp was born in Hungary and immigrated here as a political refugee of all things! His company’s technological breakthrough would combined with other developments during the tech boom maintain America’s lead in the world of tech. Then there was that weirdo physicist in the 1900s that came here and later went on to win the Nobel Prize for some whacko theories…
Meanwhile, in the 21st century, I'm reading magazine/news articles about how America's increasingly finding a harder time attracting immigrants. Countries like Sweden and Finland are now welcoming educated immigrants. We're no longer living in the post-WWII era when America was THE country to move to--permanently. Europe's no longer a war-torn wasteland. While Bill Gates and Warren Buffet talk about obsolete schools and while experts are repeatedly voicing concerns about American kids being douchebags at the math/sciences needed for staying ahead in big tech, we have people in Congress speaking of the evils of foreigners.
All I can say is all anti-immigration supporters are no more than alarmists. If it weren't for immigration (legal and illegal), inflation on basic consumer products would be insane. I'm still amazed that I can buy produce, much of it grown here in California, for bargain prices while my rent for a single room barely holds at an insane high $700/month. My dad who runs his own business couldn’t agree more.
But my sister disagrees with me. Like the typical wingnut, she says that immigrants are the cause of all of California’s problems and contributed to our economic woes (note: This was about 2 years back during the credit crunch…yeah…you read right, she thinks some Mexicans caused the credit crunch). When I ask her for her source of information, she just gives me anecdotal information about a Mexican mother who had 7 kids and was asking for taxpayer help. Never mind that the LA Times back in 2007 published an article showing that immigrant healthcare and other social services for Mexican immigrants was showing to be taking up 0.5% of the state budget.
Other than that, I don’t see too many downsides of immigration. The typical second generation Mexican kid is white-washed like I am. A lot of them have such a poor grasp of Spanish that even I can understand and speak more than they can. They’re as American as you and me.
On top of that, I've been lately going to class with a lot of Latina chicks...I must say…there are some very nice-looking ones. =D - Darkelement878, on 07/20/2009, -0/+17But who will build the X-Seed 4000?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Seed_4000 - Ceryn1126, on 07/20/2009, -0/+17This is true more now then ever and it's really unfortunate. The Japanese government has had a lot of failures in recent years dealing with employment issues that have literally stifled all growth in Japan. First some cultural background. In Japan changing jobs for any reason other then to continue ones education is highly frowned upon. Japanese companies tend to look at someone who has worked at another company and decided to move on too many times as "damaged goods"
Most companies also fill their positions through an informal system of "connections" whereby a great many people get their jobs through personal reccomendation and not though the normal application process. This whole system is all fine and good when business is booming and you can afford not to be meritocratic, but in recent years it has simply fostered a widening of the rich poor gap into "haves and have-nots" by putting connected rich people into positions that they didn't deserve while passing up a qualified younger generation.
Further compounding the problem was the existence of nearly unregulated dispatch companies (Hakkengaisha) who will find a job for whoever needs it and at the lowest cost to the company (because they compete with other dispatch companies) but at great expense to the person who actually gets the job. If a job in your field was worth 300,000 yen per month ($3000) then you are likely to get 250k to 220k with no chance for future salary advancement because the dispatch company holds the actual contract.
The high cost of living in Japan has created a set of conditions where despite their abnormally low taxes (20%) and relatively lax regulations in almost all areas has produced a set of circumstances where the average family simply cant afford more than 1 child. The dwindling population combined with a graying workforce that can't afford to retire because not enough people are paying into Nenkin (the japanese health care / social security system) has resulted in a system where all the weath is concentrated in such a small group of people who don't spend money back into the economy and everyone else is forced to reside just above the poverty level with no way to find a career with potential for advancement. (Just to be clear environmental regulations aren't lax here, but the lack of cars in favor of mass transit makes overall emissions standards easy to meet compared to the rest of the industrialized world)
On a final note, I am not trying to make a partisan argument related to any other country I have no reason to believe that the Japanese Jimintou (Conservative party) or Minshutou (Progressive party) would have behaved any different when faced with the economic issues that Japan has been undergoing. I do however believe that the US and other industrialized nations should learn a lesson from Japan that too much free market and too little taxation can lead you into dire economic straits if there isn't an adequate way to make sure that meritocracy doesn't simply favor wealthy peoples children. - jdh24, on 07/20/2009, -0/+14The question is whether this will affect the mandatory 50 strobe lights and bright bold blinking words flashing across the screen on every Japanese TV show.
- RadGnar, on 07/20/2009, -1/+15I would gladly immigrate there. I just got back from Japan and it has been the cleanest and safest country I have ever been too. It is such a treat to travel there. Plus, Tokyo is such a cool city you can't go wrong!
- Orchid64, on 07/20/2009, -0/+12Yeah, because the culture can be understood from a brief visit for travel. Japan is a wonderful place to be a tourist, and certainly not a bad place to live, but there is so much racism that you only experience if you live here.
- Nekogao, on 07/20/2009, -0/+10But that's the problem Japan faces. With its declining birthrate it needs immigration to maintain its population and economy.
Yet Japan has strict immigration laws and is notoriously reluctant to allow its immigrant population to ever feel at home in the long term. - hardtoconfuse, on 07/20/2009, -0/+9I'd support the mass export of weaboos as long as I am present at the airport gates to slap every one of them across the face as they board.
- TobiasParker, on 07/20/2009, -1/+9And they are overwhelmed with virgins apparently.
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Japanese_culture_with_a_ ... - Soniti, on 07/20/2009, -0/+8I wish that ***** would be built. I like how in the article it says it could be complete by 2110.
101 years from now. ***** my life. - HappyNihilist, on 07/20/2009, -6/+13This is a good lesson for those in America constantly bitching about immigration. Some in Europe might want to pay attention, as well. Without a constant generational "refresh", nations inevitably decline. With lower birthrates in many wealthy countries, the only way to keep a nation young is through immigration. As the article stated, Japan's culture has a general distaste for "outsiders" and they are suffering as a result.
- Nekogao, on 07/20/2009, -1/+8Think you mean you would gladly 'emigrate there'.
Anyway, I live in Japan and it aint really all that. Once you get used to being in a place, the exoticism soon wears off. - Orchid64, on 07/20/2009, -0/+6The problem with the Japanese is that they believe that their culture is impossible to convey to outsiders and think that integration is in the blood, not in the mind. This is why they allowed second generation Japanese from South America to immigrate and remain in Japan as permanent residents (but not as citizens). They thought that, by virtue of their blood, they'd integrate. That has failed and now they're trying to bribe them to leave the country.
Japan doesn't want immigration. It's developing increasingly foreigner-hostile policies including random drug tests (yes, pee in a cup) for no reason other than being in a certain area of Tokyo and being foreign. - zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -0/+5Sure...keep watching as the nation's population declines. Before you know it, the country's overall revenue's gone.
- Orchid64, on 07/20/2009, -0/+5Japan isn't dealing with the aging population and having more older people isn't lowering crime, educational costs or real estate. They have severe problems funding the pension system and socialized medical care because the retirement age is 60 and people live into their 80's on average. Fewer younger people paying taxes and working and a heavy concentration of retired older people means not enough taxes to support the entitlements for the elderly.
Additionally, crime committed by senior citizens has been spiking in Japan. They are shoplifting, killing, and attacking people with increasing frequency. And the educational situation is such that costs stay level even as demand goes down because the Japanese value the name of the school more than the degree or capability of students. The cream at the top keeps high rates and the chaff at the bottom just goes out of business.
In theory, you comment is logical, but it reveals a profound lack of information about Japan and its social and political situation. - Lazydriver, on 07/20/2009, -0/+4EXACTLY, EXACTLY, EXACTLY!!!
Jesus christ, these Jingoistic ***** are ruining this country. - stklaw, on 07/20/2009, -0/+4Because you don't understand how much time and money it takes to raise a child in Japan.
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -1/+4Russian fertility rate is slowly regaining. There is no need to resort to immigration. Japan should reward people that produce kids like Russia.
- GorfTron, on 07/20/2009, -1/+4Have you looked at a Japanese woman over 35?
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3Find ways to automate more, putting people in more productive jobs. finding way..............
Oh you didn't get it buddy. Lack of labor is not an issue. it's shortage of consumers. Their employment rate is pretty high that certainly means they have a lot of workforce. To boost up whole economy you have to have a population that will consume goods & services produced by your nation. - laguano, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3Here's a very interesting documentary about how robots can help with Japan's population.
http://current.com/items/89610631_japan-robot-nati ... - erhanaltay, on 07/20/2009, -1/+4Immigration does have costs but they are self-manufactured. For example, welfare is a new concept that did not exist during the age of the classic American melting pot. People who came here had to work hard and contribute or else they simply starved. Today, while immigrants are on average harder working, there are some who abuse the system (just like there are many natives who abuse the system.) The problem is our welfare policies, not immigration.
Secondly, density. There are too many Mexicans in a small area. This hinders assimilation as everyone you will ever expect to meet around you speaks the mother language and has the culture of the old country. I would suggest a policy like Canada's where legal immigrants are scattered across the provinces to encourage assimilation. - zomgflamer, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3Human Instrumentality Project is the only way to fix this ***** up world JAPAN!! DO it!!
- m0llusk, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Japanese women, the saying goes, do not get old or fat. They do age, but have you examined the alternatives closely?
- cyferguy, on 07/20/2009, -1/+3I debate moving to Japan after getting my college degree but they better change their immigration views if they want to survive this upcoming century.
- zomgflamer, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Well, we don't have any problems with legal immigrants. We're talking about the kind that took err jobss
- schnikies79, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Economic policies based on continuing population growth are flawed economic policies.
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -1/+3Binary Solo!
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00001111 - m0llusk, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2The actual quote implies a potential easing of fate rather than escape from it: "Maybe the robots will take care of us."
- opticwind, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2I don't know about the whole article, but the first sentence is *****:
"At Takashimaya, the high-end department store atop the central train station in Nagoya, shoppers line up in orderly queues before the 10 a.m. opening."
I live 10 minutes by foot from Takashimaya, in Nagoya, and I can GUARANTEE you that the lines aren't orderly...wait, no, there ARE no lines. Just dozens of people, sporadically placed, texting other people. The only line I self-created line I see here is for trains, and that's just out of necessity. - Duncan3, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1That sounds mild compared to what the USA makes you do to come here legally.
A million Mexicans hop a fence and face no such problems. - raybury, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1As lostinseganet said, that uptick is due to Muslim births. Nothing wrong with that -- I'm with John Rhys Davies, it's values, not ethnicity, that matters -- but it is not like these Muslim children are likely to integrate as Russians the same way folks integrate as Americans or Brazilians or Swiss (and fail to as French or Germans). And really, why would would they want to?
- Nekogao, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Yes, but the country and its economy has been built around such a model.
With its shrinking birthrate and long life expectancy, the population is top heavy with retirees. In short, there's a large gap that needs to be plugged. In most modern countries this is done via immigration so Japan either needs to embrace this route and offer better provisions and rights for immigrants or see its status as a world financial power diminish.
Japan is one of the most welcoming and friendly countries for visitors, but quite the opposite for foreign residents. - Zippo, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Good luck with that... driving in Tokyo is treacherous
- erhanaltay, on 07/21/2009, -0/+1zeth006, the situation is so very different today than in the time of Irish & Italian immigration. Back then we didn't have satellites and such easy access to foreign radio/tv/newspapers/etc. Today, pockets of foreign culture can embed themselves in the USA with absolutely no need to adopt the local culture.
Accelerating assimilation, I believe, should be America's #1 priority. It will ensure the health of our state (since immigration is a huge boon) and keep it together (with a common culture.) Your suggestion that my ideas are not humane is quite insulting. Canada which implements these policies is considered a very humane place. - zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the part about assimilation.
Mexicans are no different from the Irish and the Italians who first came here. The first generation held strongly to their culture. After that, the subsequent generations became assimilated into the populations. As another poster said earlier, assimilation is just another word for culture killing. No need to try accelerating a culture kill if it's going to die off eventually anyway.
Come on, let's be humane. What erhanaltay basically proposes is we kill off other cultures. Why not go up to a black/mexican/Asian/Middle Easterner and say "***** your culture. I hope it dies!"
See what kind of response you get. - zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1The flaw in your comment that you assume a false cause. Immigration isn't causing a "decline" of any sorts. You failed to outline the symptoms of a "decline." America isn't really on a "decline." Its standard of living has improved dramatically since it first began admitting immigrants from Britain, France, and Ireland. Inflation is dampened drastically by the cheap laborers we import from across the border and those who do make it into the middle class and/or their children become new sources of tax revenue and consumerism.
- SniperZero, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970472/ - maybe it might happen after all.
- omnithought, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1They could go a long while before they have to worry about their population. They've got a *****-ton of people crammed into not that much space.
- erhanaltay, on 07/21/2009, -0/+1What's the problem with that? Superior cultures will win the struggle for existence. Cultures are not living things, there is no reason to have pity or remorse for their death.
I have more sympathy for the mosquito I slap than, say, some dying African language or Indian dialect. - omnithought, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1I'm going there in 6 weeks! Been wanting to do this my whole life.
- rpgmakr, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Sadly, I think you are right in the big scheme of things: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F ...
First time the guy posts a picture of that kind of sign. - zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1@erhanaltay
What do you mean "lose their identity?" Do you really think that a country's culture/identity is static and thus unchanging?
Japan's culture, like any country's culture, is constantly and undergoing revolutions. We've seen this in the history of all nations. America isn't the same as it was 50 years ago.
Immigration simply means that the people of a country will have to accommodate another culture's language and way of life. There isn't anything negative inherent in this as long as the country's government does what it needs to do to help these immigrants get properly settled into jobs and schools so that everyone's content. Otherwise you have an issue of institutionalized discrimination against those minorities as we see happening with the gypsies in Europe.
You need to cut the ***** "preserving a way of life" card that the far-right right-winters pulling to justify a no-immigration policy. Any worse, and these same right-wingers will be advocating a "pure" race.
Sounds just like a certain crazy idiot who rose to power in Germany during WWII... - emjaymj, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Come on sucker lick my battery
- zeth006, on 07/20/2009, -0/+11. Britain and America aren't solely service economies. America especially still has a large manufacturing sector--otherwise, unionization in this sector wouldn't receive so much coverage. Also, cheap labor isn't concentrated solely in manufacturing. That's a flawed assumption. Ever wonder why Walmart products are so cheap?
2. The main point at hand isn't whether immigration is "legal" or "illegal." That's semantics. Those who immigrate here legally still work at low-wage jobs regardless. Let's keep it real.
3. "America is broke and in decline."
Without evidence to show me that immigration is causing this, that's just an unsupported assumption. Those who've taken a logic class know that an unsupported assertion is just an invalid form of argumentation.
If you want to complain about deficit spending, welcome to the status quo. We import much of what we buy and we operate on a trade deficit. Our politicians borrow and spend away and fight over spending cuts and tax hikes. This is the 21st century. Quit using the immigrants as scapegoats. We're not Nazis. -
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