What is Digg?447 Comments
- ScornForSega, on 10/12/2007, -24/+209@waywar
Yes, but it blows the whole story out of the water. I swear, I remember Antonio Banderas being in a movie about this same subject. Yep, he was.. it was called "The Body."
Anyway, here's the deal. Without the resurrection, you've got nothing. The entire faith is based on the idea that Jesus wasn't a man... or he wasn't a God.. or he was both but neither kinda thing. It's confusing.
Regardless, the majority of Christians believe that Jesus physically ascended to heaven.... just as they will physically ascend when the apocalypse comes. (Why Christians are so obsessed with their bodies is beyond me.) Without that, Jesus becomes just another miracle-wielding prophet with some good ideas lost in time. There were quite a few like him.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Jesus or Christianity or any of that... I think he had some good ideas and I wish his "followers" paid more attention to his ideas and less attention to centuries of ***** that's been built up around the them. - waywar, on 10/12/2007, -29/+193What the heck does that mean? This is not saying that Jesus was not real. Quite the opposite. If this turns out to be Jesus' coffin it will be further proof that he is a historical character that existed.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -21/+116There's plenty of proof that a man named Jesus existed in the early 1st century AD who was crucified. As to his divinity - that's the million dollar question.
Anyways, I find it funny that the author of this story wrote "No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true." (Yes, I did copy and paste. He actually wrote Codes and ended with a single mark) The Da Vinci Code was "supposed to be true" according to the author ("Asked by Elizabeth Vargas in an ABC News special if the book would have been different if he had written it as non-fiction, [Dan Brown] replied, "I don't think it would have."). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -17/+106A Christian who doesn't believe in the magic bits is an atheist with a sense of morals.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -14/+103@waywar
First off, I absolutely agree with your last point. Many Christians, usually considered "Fundamentalists" (but who aren't even close), are the Christians that many people see on the sides of streets with signs saying "God hates fags" or "Atheists are demons". Jesus' teachings were not hateful; more than anything, he taught kindness and inclusion, not hate- or fear-mongering as many 'fundies' believe.
You're a bit off on what (most) Christian doctrines say about who/what Jesus was. Most doctrines hold that Jesus was both man and God, not one or the other. Not a huge deal, but some people will get mad...
As for bodily ascension - I, for one, hope that isn't the case. According to http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1+Corinthians+15%3A35-58&version1=31 (warning: fundamentalist site... don't read any of the crap they have on there... I only use it for pulling up passages), the resurrection will be of the spiritual 'body', not of the physical body. Unfortunately, most Christians haven't read more than a few passages in the Bible in their entire life, and so believe anything any pastor tells them is true (personally, I think that most churches are horrible constructs of human greed and corruption). It's sad, really...
And finally, as for your first point - yes, if the body of the Jesus that is proclaimed in the New Testament is found, it will basically destroy the Christian religion. Can you empirically prove that any body found is actually Jesus' body, though? - Brewdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -17/+105This doesn't catch too much of my interest for three reasons:
- A film director who has money to be made is hyping this up, not someone who devotes his life to history for man's collective knowledge. This looks like it's riding on The Da Vinci Code's coattails.
- "Jesus" is Hebrew for "Joshua," so saying this Jesus buried near Jerusalem is THE Jesus of Christian devotion (and not any of the numerous other Jesuses) is more than a little overzealous. They have nothing but a few common names to base this entire theory on.
- As far as the DNA testing mentioned, we don't have Jesus Christ's DNA to compare these bones to. The most you could tell is that the people buried in the same tomb are actually related, but you can already tell that because they're in the SAME TOMB.
I call shenanigans on James Cameron. He just assumes too much to be credible at this point but doesn't want to lose the opportunity to make the next Da Vinci Code. - evanscotb, on 10/12/2007, -15/+95Let's pull a Jurrassic Park on Jesus! Imagine the pressure on that kid...
- jonnyx, on 10/12/2007, -29/+106Awesome. I can go to church tomorrow and yell out "Alright people, let's go home, they found the bones!"
Somewhere deep down inside I've always wanted to do that. - Detritus, on 10/12/2007, -22/+85As a former Christian, I've been rekindling my interest in the religion lately. I really like Jesus and his message once you strip out all of the pagan-legacy garbage the Romans tacked on and the magic bits.
Hell once you take away the magic bits Jesus becomes a truly remarkable man; not just some lucky sob whose Dad got him a killer gig.
Why do you need the magic bits any way? Love is the message, people spend way too much time worrying about magic to get to heaven. The kingdom is here my friends, and all you've got to do to enjoy it is love. - Koopa, on 10/12/2007, -9/+70"Moral of the story; unless you can prove it wrong, don't blow it off as utterly absurd or having no merit."
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot - broruss, on 10/12/2007, -7/+64Is anyone else annoyed by how sloppy and informal news writing has become? There are many examples I could point out in this article, but the main one that annoys me is the statement that Christians worship the (alleged) empty tomb of Jesus. I am a Buddhist and even I know that is not an accurate statement. They may go to the (alleged) empty tomb of Jesus to worship Christ, but they don't go and worship the damn tomb. It seems like people writing news stories for the Web don't slow down and re-read their own work before it is posted. (And yes, I am aware that I am not the greatest writer in the world either.. but I don't claim to be one, and I am not getting paid to write this).
- nixfu, on 10/12/2007, -35/+80>he went to india!
Actually, it makes lots of sense to consider that maybe Jesus was actually a Budda and reached enlightenment. He was very close to a Budda in the way he lived his life according to the writings.
Both Buddha and Jesus were baptized in the presence of the spirit of G-D.
Both went to their temples at the age of twelve, where they are said to have astonished all with their wisdom.
Both supposedly fasted in solitude for a long time: Buddha for 47 days and Jesus for 40.
At the conclusion of their fasts they both wandered to a fig tree.
Both were about the same age when the began their public ministry: When he [Buddha] went again to the garden he saw a monk who was calm, tranquil, self-possessed, serene, and dignified. The prince determined to become such a monk, was led to make the great denunciation. At the time he was 29 years of age....Jesus when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age... Luke 3:23
Both were tempted by the devil at the beginning of their ministry: To Buddha, he said: Go not forth to adopt a religious life but return to your kingdom, and in seven days you shall become emperor of the world, riding over the four continents. To Jesus he said: All these [kingdoms of the world] I will give you, if you fall down and worship me. Matt 4:9 Buddha answered the devil: Get away from me Jesus responded ...begone Satan! Matt 4:10.
Both experienced the supernatural after the devil left: For Buddha: The skies rained flowers, and delicious odors prevailed in the air. For Jesus ..angels came and ministered to him. Matt 4:11.
The multitudes required a sign from both in order that they might believe.
Both strove to establish a kingdom of heaven on earth.
Buddha represented himself as a mere link in a long chain of enlightened teachers. Jesus said: Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matt 5:17.
According to the Somadeva (a Buddhist holy book), a Buddhist ascetic's eye once offended him, so he plucked it our and cast it away. Jesus said 'If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away;...' Matt 5:29.
Buddha taught that the motive of all our actions should be pity of love of our neighbor. Jesus taught: ...love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.... Matt 5:4.
Buddha said: Hide your good deeds and confess before the world the sins you have committed. Jesus said: Beware of practicing your piety before men to be seen by them;...Matt 6:1 and Therefore confess your sins one to another and pray one for another, that you may be healed... James 5:16.
Both are said to have known the thoughts of others: By directing his mind to the thoughts of others, [Buddha] can know the thoughts of all beings. But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said: Why do you think evil in our hearts? Matt 9:4.
Both were itinerant preachers with a close group of trustees within a larger group of disciples.
Both demanded that their disciples renounce all worldly possessions.
Both sent their disciples on missionary assignments: The number of disciples rapidly increased and Gautama sent forth his monks on missionary tours hither and thither, bidding them wander everywhere, preaching the doctrine, and teaching men to order their lives with self -restraint, simplicity, and charity. And Jesus called to him twelve apostle and began to send them out two by two....So they went out and preached that men should repent. Mark 6:7,
Both had a disciple who walked on water: To convert skeptical villagers, Buddha showed them his disciple walking across a river without sinking. He said: Come So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out: Lord save me! Matt 14:29-30. 21. One day Ananda, the disciple of Buddha, after a long walk in the country, meets with Matangi, a woman of the low caste of the Kandalas, near a well, and asks her for some water. She tells him what she is, and that she must not come near him. But he replies: My sister, I ask not for your caste of your family, I ask only for a draught of water. She afterwards became a disciple of Buddha. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her give me a drink. For his disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him: How is it that you a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria? For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. John 4:7-9
Both men received similar receptions: The people swept a pathway, the gods strewed flowers on the pathway and branches of the coral trees, the men bore branches of all manner of trees and the Bodhisattva Sumedha spread his garments in the mire, and men and gods shouted All hail. And they brought the colt to Jesus mad threw their garments on it, and he sat on it. And many spread their garments on the road and others spread leafy branches which they has cut from the fields. Mark 11:7 -8.
When Buddha died: The coverings of [his] body unrolled themselves and the lid of his coffin was opened by supernatural powers. When Jesus dies: And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the L-RD descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat upon it. Matt 28:2
In the year 217 B.C. Buddhist missionaries were imprisoned for preaching; but and angel, genie or spirit came and opened the prison door, and liberated them. They arrested the apostles and put them in the common prison. But at night an angel of the L-RD opened the prison doors and brought them out. Acts 5:18-19.
Both men's disciples are said to have been miracle workers.
Shame the buddism-like parts of Christianity is not really the part that most people focus on. - rooskie, on 10/12/2007, -8/+50Please tell me Geraldo wasn't involved with this.
- Salgat, on 10/12/2007, -17/+59Another guy who claims to have "debunked a religion" through profitable means.
- TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -16/+55But will Jesus blend? Oh, that was bad. I wonder if evangelicals will get behind cloning tech to enable the second coming? A cloned Jesus. Wow, there must be something wrong with me, two awesome awful ideas in just a few seconds.
- SIRBERUS, on 10/12/2007, -13/+51Oh the fun of digg... it was only about a week ago that anyone who said there was historical evidence that Jesus existed at some time would get dugg down, now its ok if he existed, just as long as it proves Christianity wrong.
- loqqq, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42So, Michael Crichton can't publicly debate global warming, because he's just a writer and not a scientist.
But now movie director James Cameron is a world-acclaimed archaeologist?
What's the difference? - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -6/+39That 'stache could solve any mystery...
- blaze03, on 10/12/2007, -25/+56@ stonewaljacksn
Whenever science and reason contradict Christianity, the religious people auto-assume the "not meant to be taken literally" position. It's pretty much cliche by now. - LordLucless, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28Ok, just remember if you fill in the blanks with frog-DNA, he'll gain the power to change gender at will
- sych0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24but will it be in 3D?!?
- ArianeB, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26Rather than just Buddha comparisons, how about Socrates?
Both Jesus and Socrates were carpenters by trade.
Both asked questions of their students and used allegories as teaching tools.
Both were put on trial because the people in charge did not like what they were saying.
Both were convicted by a majority vote of the people.
Both were sentenced to death.
Both had a chance to save themselves by recanting, neither did.
They are without a doubt, the two most influential thinkers in Western Civilization. - Shirt, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26What? Were you alive then? Did you see all these people claiming to be God? One mistake with this whole discussion is that Christ existed as a God-figure solely because of the resurrection, but that is only one part of the whole idea. Another reason Christ was considered the Messiah was because almost every facet of his existence was PREDETERMINED. For example, the time and place of his birth were announced by angels and the place was marked with a star in the sky. His family was of the line of King David, which is where the Old Testament said he would come from. This all comes from my personal knowledge of the Bible, which I am not claiming to be an expert on. My point is that many people don't understand that Jesus according to the Bible didn't just pop out of nowhere with people following him. The reason he was chosen was because his birth matched all of the prophecies laid out by the Old Testament, or the Jewish "Tanakh." That simple fact is integral to understanding why people started following him in the first place. It really isn't hard to grasp.
Whether you believe it to me is your own business. I have been a Christian for my entire life, but I don't believe that it's my duty to judge non Christians. The Bible specifically says that all judgement is reserved for God himself, and unfortunately that's a very simple idea that many Christians today seem to have forgotten about. I personally do not make any decision on whether a person of no faith or another faith is right or wrong, because according to my faith, that isn't my job. To me God is based around my faith in Him, not whether or not I can prove it to myself or others. - chriswm, on 10/12/2007, -13/+31"This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity"....
There's so many things wrong with this statement, I don't know where to start. This article is presented as fact, when in reality it is one man's (James Cameron's) editorial interpretation of history. He's not the first, nor will he be the last man to deny the divinity of Christ. Move along, nothing new to see here. - Dhalsim007, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21All this proves is that there was another family with a guy named Jesus who had a mother named Mary. And the article is right in saying that Jesus, as a poor carpenter, would not have been buried in a family-sized crypt which was too expensive for his family then. I mean, didn't he see the Indiana Jones scene with the Holy Grail? "That's the cup of a carpenter." Same logic here.
- VhaidraU, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19@nixfu, there is actually a great book on that called "Christ the Eternal Tao" and here is a description from http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1887904239/yourcatholicmess/
People of the modern West have to a great extent become jaded by Christian terminology and doctrinal constructions, yet many of them are drawn to the Person of Christ Himself. Christ the Eternal Tao seeks to develop not only a new way of seeing Christ, but also a new language by which to express His message, drawing from the enigmatic style and poetic language of Lao Tzu.
The uniqueness of this book lies in the fact that it is highly original and at the same time totally traditional. The content of ancient Christian experience, with all its latent power, remains the same, but it is presented in a far-seeing, all-encompassing way that soars above the bounds of Western culture. In keeping with the Chinese mind and the way of Lao Tzu, the book moves from laconic poetry to scientific precision in seeking to arrive at the "minimal": the very essence of Reality. It speaks of the mysteries of the nature of the Tao, then describes the drama of the Tao "taking flesh" in Christ, opening up the reality of the other world, and finally "emptying Himself." Practical teachings on the spiritual life are presented in detail from a Tao's state of mind. - einstein37, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22Jesus claimed to be God. He also claimed to be the only way to eternal life. He is either a liar, crazy, or He was telling the truth. He cannot be a "remarkable man".
- sophiaperennis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18@scornforsega
Resurrection of the flesh (anastaseos necron) is not taught at all in early Christian theology. That is exactly the point held by the Sadducees that is rebuked in Matthew 22:28-34. Furthermore, Athenagoras' similar doctrine of resurrection of the body is 180 degrees opposed to the platonic doctrine on resurrection of the spirit, by which the Greek New Testament was heavily influenced.
I'm not a Christian, but I study religious doctrine and traditional metaphysics. - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17You're thinking Kirk Cameron, I believe.
- MiloMindrbindr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18It's not the Jews, it's clearly the Canadians. They've had it in for Jeebus since we stole Alanis Morrisette from them.
- GopherGod, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16DNA evidence?
And relate that to what? - pampusik, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19This long comment appears plagiarized from http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
What ever happened to "thou shall not steal?" - LordLucless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Actually, he's most famous for being executed as a criminal. Most executed criminals don't live too well...
- matt35, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I'm guessing that there was only one guy named Jesus 2000 years ago then as well... This story has already been on Fark and got quite a few comments. It'd be like people finding a grave with "George" on it 2000 years from now, thinking it was George W. Bush, because of that there, and because of other tombs surrounding it with other common names of the time period that are common to his family.
It's almost like when they said the found James' tomb a while back, and then it was proven to be false. Either way, maybe Bill Paxton will be in this movie as well, which would definitely be amazing. - Deltablade, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Rather than just Buddha comparisons, how about Socrates?
Both Jesus and Socrates were carpenters by trade....etc."
Yes, but only one of them claimed to be God. - devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -16/+27Amen, brother. If more christians were like you, or religious people in general were, the world would be a better place.
- JigoroKano, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@Krymore
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58.
"I am." was a key phrase often uttered by Jesus. This is how Yahweh referenced himself to Moses. Jesus referenced himself the same way on many occasions. Nobody else does this but Jesus and Yahweh.
...all according to the Bible of course. - zephc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"Mohammadens"? The 19th century telegraphed - it wants its word back.
- quickgold192, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15If anyone thinks that discovering the empty tomb of Jesus and even proving that he didn't resurrect will actually make the followers of such a huge religion just give up on their beliefs you're wrong. Christians believe what they do without any proof in the first place.
- Waiting2awake, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15 There is nothing there to take on. Their belief is that Mohammad was just a man, a profit of God, but still just a man. Islam, like all dogmatic religions, have their share of mytho's, but ultimately since their is no proclamation that Mohammad was God, there is relatively little to "take on". Islam itself is very scientific(relatively speaking) in nature and is a more modern religion than Catholicism.
Not that I think either are good for man, we are all grown up enough now to let go of these fairy tales and see the reality that they contain. The map != the terrain. - 0crabby0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Something tells me this news is gonna knock the latest Britney Spears sighting off the map...
Next season on CBS - CSI JERUSALEM
Until then though, we'll just have to settle for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4 - ConfusedONE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Logic doesn't support Jesus raising from the dead. It is faith.
I'm Christian and still scientifically minded - and let me tell you. The resurrection defies logic, we are never meant to comprehend how it is possible scientifically or logically. This is an act of faith that we believe that Jesus truly was raised from the dead. I know I am going to be bashed for saying all of this. - burningbush, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Absolutely Kirk Cameron.
- rundymc, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18@scornforsega
Rather than faith, I think its more accurate to say it blows dogma out of the water. Which is great; like you said, Christians (and any religion for that matter, Muslims, Jews, Hindus whatever) need to set dogma aside and focus on what their religions actually teach them. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15It's amazing to me how many Christians honestly think that Allah is some separate God, or even some evil spirit. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Allah is the same God that Abraham worshiped, whose teachings were passed down through his son Ishmael (yes, contrary to sunday school, Isaac wasn't the only son, there were two). Another myth that seems to get passed around in the Christian community is that Muslims hate Jesus. Islam reveres Jesus as one of the greatest prophets of God. Islam actually reveres Jesus for his teachings and what he physically said, instead of using his name and theoretical likeness (tall white man with blue eyes, dark blond hair, and clean white robe) as promotion for completely un-Jesuslike doctrine.
- Waiting2awake, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18 Hopefully, but I doubt it. For many people faith is something that goes beyond the need for proof, and even in the light of disproof, the faith is still large enough to superceed it. In all honesty, there is no free thinking person that can truly beleive in the literal interpretation of the bible..
But looking at it through the eyes of alagory and suddenly even the most fantastic stories start to make some sense.
Catholic's, primarily, will be most upset with this, no doubt the popery will be gnashing their teeth... May the good times roll. - sloof70, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10People couldn't disprove Jesus' resurrection in the years after his death. How does Cameron think he can prove it now?
- erkokite, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Yes. You are correct. Kirk Cameron.
- BriSoFli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@flamadiddle - You have GOT to be kidding me:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/thisweek/story/0,12977,1388495,00.html
Don't automatically assume something is impossible because it conflicts with your closely-held religious beliefs. - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"That 'stache could solve any mystery..."
Except the location of Al Capone's secret vault. -
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